RR axles under a Series 88 - declaration.

[Tikirocker]

Well ... as part of my 64 S2a restoration I'm planning on sticking a pair of Rangie axles from an 84 RR under my 88. The plan is to get disc brakes all round, a slightly wider track and to either stick my 4.7 Series diffs into the RR axles or use 4.1 Rover car diffs to improve the ratio for my Holden 186.

The job will require a bit of grinding, welding and fabricating to get everything correct but the end result will be surely cheaper than a set of Zeus bolt on disc brakes for $1800 AUD for one axle! I'll make sure to post pics of the up coming conversion as the jobs are done for others who might be interested in it. I'm a layman at this kind of job so the point is to prove that even a layman can make it happen among other things.

Apparently the rear axle will pretty much bolt straight under a Series once you have ground off and re-welded the spring pad mounts. The front axle is a more complex animan which requires extending the spring block beneath the axle to 22mm and shifting the shock mounts slightly so that the steeting linkage can clear the springs. You end up with a slight loss of clearance but this can be compensated for by running Military shackles on the front end.

Any thoughts?

Best, Simon.

[Slunnie]

Landcruiser 60 series axles bolt straight in at the front, but require a steering adaption, and the rear goes in with new perches. They are wider, stronger, wheels/tyres are absolutely everywhere and already have 4.1 ratios and the diff centres are already in the correct locations. The brakes are also single line to the front and single line to the rear unlike the Rangie axles. The LC60 axles diffs are bigger for strength, but they also offer less clearance.

I know this suggestion will offend the purists, but then again a purist wouldn't use rangie axles either.

Hmmm, forgot. It'll also need hilux pinion flanges and them machined to suit the rover tailshaft.

[Tikirocker]

Sounds good but Rangie axles are still Land Rover product and aren't a huge departure for a purist even - like me - I don't consider RR axles a non purist conversion. Here's a pic a RR axled Series, you wouldn't know unless you got on your knees.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2006/04/45.jpg

Here's a more extreme view on a Lightweight ...

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2006/04/46.jpg

Do the Toy axles have disc brakes though?

Best, Simon.

[Slunnie]

Disk front, drum rears.

[DaveS3]

Yup, all disc front a most I've seen are drum rear but I do believe they made a rear disc version or that the conversions relatively simple.

[Tikirocker]

Hmmm interesting ... any idea what the track width is of the LC diffs compared with the RR diffs? If they were the same you could stick a Toy front and RR rear. What kind of alteration to the front steering has to be made for the LC conversion - a mate I've spoken to says the LC60 conversion <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>"would be more work and expense"[/b][/quote] than the RR diff conversion. so there's another reason no to in my case.

[Tikirocker]

And here's a few other comments regarding the the 60 conversion vs the RR's from this mate of mine ...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>60 series diffs are definitely stronger than RR, and have a wider range of ratios. They are not as wide, probably closer to series width (hilux axles are the same width as a series, 60s are a bit wider AFAIK. Bear in mind that you would have to buy new wheels of course, and the brake setup would be more complicated, you also have to re-drill the flanges on the diffs so the rover propshafts will bolt on (as well as all the usual stuff like welding rover spring pads on in the right place). [/b][/quote]

RR's it will remain for me I think.

[DaveS3]

Its hardly any more work.

Spring pads, custom steering (AFAIK you cant use either a series or RR steering arm) have to be refabbed anyway.

You only need to do brakes and steering - Slunnie should be able to give you an idea.
EDIT: And the pinion (not hard in a drill press)

You will be able to find sunraysia rims easily with 31x10.5's for anywhere around $200 - $300

RR about 61'' (~1556mm)
Series about 54''?

Mini (Hilux) 79-85 (F) 8" 55"
Mini (Hilux) 79-85 &reg; 8" 55"
4Runners 96+ &reg; 8" 60"
FJ60.62 (F) 60"
FJ60.62 &reg; 58"
FJ80 (F) 64"
FJ80 &reg; 63.5"

Theres some widths.

If you want to run big tyres (eg 32+ on RR axles) then 60's will be the way to go.
Should easily be sweet with cromo CV's till about 38's https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

Either way (60's are far stronger with better ratios)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

[Slunnie]

For the steering you just get a new steering rod made up - its a little longer than the series setup. If you change to a PAS LC60 box and Defender column you can probably just run a full LC60 front end, but it'll be easier to just get a steering link made with a Rover ball joint at one end and a Toy ball joint at the other. The taper on the balls are different.

Brakes are Toyota MC/Booster to a series 3 brake pedal cluster with a spacer to suit. Then plumb to suit both the axles and MC. The factory IIa MC may work also - I'm not sure.

Those axle sizes are also WMS-WMS dimensions. Then add the wheels, of which the Toyota wheels have a significantly greater offset making the vehicle broader again. Hilux axles with 31x10.5 on standard Toyota offset 15x8 rims under series will have the wheels about 2" outside of the guards. LC60 axles are a bit wider again, I think about 2" per side.

Here is a truck I'm currently building that sits over LC60 axles with 2" spacers.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2006/04/16.jpg

[Tikirocker]

Thanks Slunnie And Dave!

Actually Dave my mate took it all back and agreed with you when I showed him what you said ... it's not ALLOT more work but perhaps small amount he reckons. https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ It's a funny thing when your doing a rebuild because your full of great idea's and new possibilities ... I'm doing a crap load of research on the RR axles and there are pros and cons of doing the conversion along with the work that goes with it.

Some of the cons are losing a bit of clearance beneath the axle - you would extend the spring block under the front axle to 20mm but to regain height back you run Mil shackles ... but by doing this apparently you change the caster angle by about 3 degrees which is supposed to make the steering heavier - who needs that!? - plus you still have less clearance under the axle - a small amount but it's a loss. Apparently the guy with the Ltwght reckoned that with no weight in the back of his the disc brakes would judder a bit ... so sheesh ... it's a bitch fight in some ways and I am starting to wonder if I should just stick beefed up halfshafts in when they break next time ... swap in 4.1 diffs from a Rover car to help out my Holden 6 and just stick LWB brakes on the front and run either a Dual Servo of just adjust the crap out of the brakes on a single line and make the thing stand on it's nose with well adjusted drum brakes?

This way I lose no clearance and have less **** fight ... always the toss up!

[DaveS3]

To throw another spanner in the works,

Nissan MQ/MK Diffs are almost bolt in aswell, I dont even think the pads need to be changed!
A mate of mine had a set in his LR before he coilded it.

If your going to change the diffs you may as well upgrade. The only pros of the RR conversion is that it has disks and the Rover name - thats all. Same crappy diffs and axles.

At least with Nissan/Toy your getting Disk front with good rear drums, wider stance, heaps of choice in wheel size and offset then stronger Diffs and CVs ect.

?

Dave.

[Tikirocker]

Dave.

Arghhhhh!!! Don't put the hook in me now mate ... https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

I've just come off the idea of one kind of conversion but ok ... mang - if the other diffs just bolt under hmmm and you get front disc and rear drums you say too? Ok, ok, ok ... how widely available are the axles your talking about, I pretty much know nothing about them. Also, what changes need to made on a Series to the steering linkage in order to run the Nissan/Toy diffs - I want to avoid any major hassles with all that - another reason I've gone off the RR axles idea.

Basically, can you spell out exactly what it might take so I can get an idea if it's do-able? By the way, can you run series rims on Nissan/Toy hubs - I'm not a fan of sunraysia's ... or can they be made to run on Nis/Toy hubs?

Cheers, Simon.

[Slunnie]

The Landy rims are not interchangable with Nissan/Toyota rims. The bolt pattern is different. That said, there are heaps of 6 stud rims that will fit the Nissan axle. The OE MK/MQ Patrol steel rims are not that far off a series rim.

Without looking, the steering will require a link to be made up between the steering relay on the landy and the nissan axle with the correct lengths and ball joints.

[Tikirocker]

Thanks mate ... yeah so basically it's the same business again as the RR axles ... basically equals more fiddle with the steering linkages - I'm gonna leave all that for now and just chuck 4.1 diffs in and next time I bust a half shaft I'll throw in beefy ones for good measure. My main goal is to just get this sucker back on the road sooner than later ... more fiddle means more delay. I can always retro fit axles later anyway ... luckily they are easy to get to.