Long Range Tanks

[Nigger]

G'Day guys (oops and any girls here also)!
I have an 03 V* Disco and thinking about fittying a long range tank. Ive seen the ARB job with 130Lt and 30lt aux etc but pretty bloody expensive. Does anyone know of a reasonably fairly priced solution for a tank at least 130lt is size? Tell you what a few Jerry cans are looking pretty well priced but carrying them in the car is a pain in the arse and not real safe. Putting them on the roof has problems with weight distribution, security (both from a safety and theift perspective) and the fact I dont have any roof rack stuffs that idea......

Any advise or pointers would be much appreciated Fella's (and ladies).

[PhilipA]

I haver a 140 L supplied by Graeme cooper in my 92 Range Rover. I think it is made by out of town 4WD "Long Ranger" ?? I also believe that you can only get a 130 for a Disco.
It cost $1040. gulp.
But you should be really careful about what brand you buy. I have heard that the cheap ones are notorious for breaking off at the mounting points in the middle of nowhere.
I have had one before in my 77 and had NO problems including crossing the Simpson.
Expensive but better than jerries especially with the small load area of a Disco.
Regards Philip A

[LandyAndy]

Hi ******
Are you intending towing a camper trailer by any chance????
If so you can get larger(and much cheaper) fuel capacity by fitting a fueltank to the camper,an EFI fuel pump and hose is all thats needed to transfer.
Food for thought.
Andrew

[Slunnie]

The ARB/Out of Town/LongRanger tanks are all the same tank.

I've got the Long Range Automotive (LRA) tank which is 150L costing $1214 delivered to my door. They also have 50L tanks that go under the sills.

[Nigger]

Appreciate your responses guys!

Problem, no trailer either. $1200?, any pointers as to where I can get one for this price? I was quoted $1200 for the 130ltr and $1700 for the 150 ltr fitted, does this sound right or a bit on the dear side? Is it a simple job fitting them or should I leave it to the experts?

[PhilipA]

$1200 fitted sounds correct.
Steel has increased about 50% since I bought mine 2years ago.
On a Range Rover there is some stuffing around with mounts for fitting, and they had to cut off my anti-roll bar mounts to get the 140 in. The 130l I think does not need the mounts cut.

Regards Philip A.

[Nigger]

I just got a quote from Brown Davis Automotive in Vic who do a replacement tank at 142lt for $883 GST inc. They also have a 60Lt auxiliary to go with it for a total capacity in excess of 200 lts.

Has anyone heard of these guys and if so what's the score?

[amtravic1]

I have a Brown Davis tank in my current Rangie and had one in the old one as well. They have been around as long or longer than most other accessory makers. They make a top product. (Even if they do drive Toyotas)

Ian

[Nigger]

good news then as they are half the price of the competitors and larger in capacity.

[George130]

Don't forget the cost of filling the tank.

[Slunnie]

Originally posted by ******
I just got a quote from Brown Davis Automotive in Vic who do a replacement tank at 142lt for $883 GST inc. They also have a 60Lt auxiliary to go with it for a total capacity in excess of 200 lts.

Has anyone heard of these guys and if so what's the score?
I hear that their products are not manufactured to a satisfactory quality with internal baffles coming loose and corrosion I think it was. They are also apparently very difficult to deal with an arrogant. I know a few that wont deal with them anymore or use their products again.

This said, they do produce the most capacity in the fuel tanks for the Discovery for both the main replacement + auxilary and also in the sill tanks.

For piece of mind I'd stick to ARB/OOT/LongRanger or LongRangeAutomotive(LRA). My money then went to LRA based on value/capacity.

[Owen]

I bought a Brown Davis Tank for a Vitara in about 1990. I know it was a long time ago but I have a great memory. They welded the mount brackets on in the wrong spot (too high) and literaly told me to f*** off when I asked them to rectify it. This was to my face, at the factory in Bayswater. Seems customer service was not high on the adgenda then. I subsequently had the tank repaired by LRA in Lillydale as well as modified. They did a great job and could not be happier. They also gave me the old base for information. It was only lightweigt steel, not what was expected and was rusting already. This left such a bad memory I promised myself to pass on my message as long as I could. If they have new owners, sorry and I hope the sins of the past are not repeated. If they are the same, that 19 year old kid you yelled at and told to f*** off has a great memory.

[Pierre]

Our family's vehicles (6 all up) have had BD auxiliary and replacement tanks fitted - petrol and diesel. Self fitted tanks have comprehensive kits and instructions. The latest was 132L into 1996 Defender. It's travelled well - all over Oz and is now in the Kimberley and copping a fair hiding. We have added an insertion rubber stone shield in front of its leading edge, and reckon this helps protect against stone damage.

As for the personal stuff, never worried me - built bridges and got over them. And I'm sure David Brown is not a slow learner.

Give them a ring - make your own decision.

HTH

Pete

[amtravic1]

All I can say is I have owned two of thier products, I got great service both times and have had no trouble with the products. My current tank is a 126 litre replacement tank and has been installed for 4 years. It has a number of mods courtesy of rocks and has been ok. It is very heavy though, even when empty. I needed to upgrade the rear springs just because of the tank.

Ian

[loanrangie]

Mr Brown lives across the rd and they make a very good quality tank imo.
Yes he does drive a 100 l/c but you cant help bad taste https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

[Ralf_the_RR]

I don't quite get this long range tank setup.

Surely 80L will get at least 400km.
Unless you are going into unchartered territory, you're gonna find another servo.
Agreed it will cost more $/L in the middle of nowhere.

For normal driving, 80L is more than enough.
Carrying 140L of fuel would be for bragging rights only.
It's heavy, so the sags the suspension, gets worse economy when full, and probably quite a few more minuses.

I can't see the tank being full too often.
So why?

If it's for (lots of) touring, then maybe worth the expense, but I reckon a couple of jerry cans is the answer.
Carry them on the long trips, and leave them in the shed when not required.
And a whole lot cheaper!

[amtravic1]

Originally posted by Ralf_the_RR
I don't quite get this long range tank setup.

Surely 80L will get at least 400km.
Unless you are going into unchartered territory, you're gonna find another servo.
Agreed it will cost more $/L in the middle of nowhere.

For normal driving, 80L is more than enough.
Carrying 140L of fuel would be for bragging rights only.
It's heavy, so the sags the suspension, gets worse economy when full, and probably quite a few more minuses.

I can't see the tank being full too often.
So why?

If it's for (lots of) touring, then maybe worth the expense, but I reckon a couple of jerry cans is the answer.
Carry them on the long trips, and leave them in the shed when not required.
And a whole lot cheaper!

Well I have been out in the High Country of Vic, last Melbourne Cup Weekend for example. Filled up with fuel (126 litres) at Bairnesdale on Saturday morning. Next fuel was Ensay on Sunday about lunchtime with a very hard 1.5 days in between, limped in with about 10 litres to spare. The other fuel I carried was for the chainsaw and used 4 of the 5 litres of that as well. A Rangie is small enough in the back without carring extra fuel inside and I certainly would not put it on the roof on some of the tracks I travel on. As well as that I use around 100 litres or so every 4 days travelling to work so having a large tank reduces the time spent filling up. I am thinking of fitting sill tanks as well to give around 210 litres capacity. I also have a jerry can holder on the rear bar, sometimes that is for fuel, sometimes for water.

Ian

[Ralf_the_RR]

Ian, this is exactly my point.
In Nov last year, you NEEDED extra fuel.
You used 116L. So 80L tank + 2x20L would cover it (just), and you already have the jerry can holder.

If filling up TIME costs you money, then maybe the long range is worth it.
But carting round 50L more fuel costs you money (fuel efficiency).

Personally I plan my fill ups, and allow the extra time each week.
I only get 300km for 50-60L gas, and I travel 500km each week, so i fill up twice a week. Time costs me nothing.

I know we can take this argument to the extreme, and fill up every day, and only put in enough to cover each day, but that is impractical.

For the long trips, I fill up with gas & petrol, but since these trips are few & far between, carrying extra fuel while puttering around town is not worth it.

The justification of a $1000 fuel tank, just to save time is not there.

By the way, I don't envy your $130 every 4 days.
Convert to gas, and you'll save heaps. https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

[Slunnie]

Its not only good for remote travel, but it also frees up more space in the car by getting the jerry cans out of the cabin, and its also good for night travel when everything is shut. Night travel is the one that finally pushed me into getting one. Its hardly bragging rights though - I've never heard of anybody bragging about a fuel tank.

[George130]

I have long range tanks because they were fitted when I bought the beast. With the distances I do I love it only fill ever 9 or 10 days instead of every 3 days like with the ford. I also like the comfort of knowing there is always fuel to drive into town instead of the pray method I sometimes had to use.

[Ralf_the_RR]

Originally posted by Slunnie
I've never heard of anybody bragging about a fuel tank.

That was my (poor) attempt at humour.

Anyway, If there is a NEED, then I don't have a problem with spending a **** load on a large tank, but for 2 or 3 trips a year, jerry's are fine.

Yes they take up space, but so does an esky/fridge, clothes, fishing rods, tent, tools, spares, etc, so packing is important - I leave to the wife - she is better at it.

My point is you have to weigh up what is NEEDED, and what is WANTED.
Night driving may necessitate a large tank, but there are many servos open 24hrs, and a slight detour may be more economical than carrying extra fuel.
Long trips in the middle of nowhere may also require a large tank, but it has to be very regular.

Buying a long range tank at $1000 and then only filling it to 60L is a complete waste. There are alternatives, so thinking, planning, budgeting, and packing is required.

I don't mean to offend anyone that has outlayed big dollars (or already installed), but it comes down to need. If there is a need, then go for it. If it's for the occasional extra fuel, then go the alternative.

[Utemad]

This has gone off topic but................at the moment I drive a ute so on long trips I'll use one 20L jerry can. I went to Fraser once for 7 days and took 160L in jerrys and 63L in the tank. I brought back 80L. Mind you I wasn't carrying it around all the time. We stayed at Kingfisher (honeymoon) so I left all the jerrys in the laundry :D

When I get my Disco it will be gas/petrol so I will be able to fill both for longer trips. Not too sure about carrying petrol in the cabin with the fumes.
However when I drove from Bris-Melb-Tassie and back I felt like I was stopping to fill the tank every five minutes. However I would probably be stopping anyway for rest breaks and Wife toilet breaks.

I can't see the point in getting a long range tank with a ute but maybe with a wagon. I could never justify the cost of near $1000 for 3 jerrys extra capacity. Plus on a Rodeo the long range tank hangs really low.

If I get a Disco with a long range already fitted though I'd be mighty happy.

As for bragging about long range tanks, my brother did. that was until I let him know I got the same kms from my 63L tank as he got from his 200L (twin tanks) in his 351 powered Landcruiser :p

[Utemad]

Originally posted by Ralf_the_RR
...a slight detour may be more economical than carrying extra fuel.

Haven't you ever seen Wolf Creek??? https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

[George130]

Another plus of the Long RAnge tank is the ability to fill up when the fuel is cheap. Diesel is now between $1.529 and $1.549 out my way but in Canberra I can still fill up between $1.485 and $1.499 might not sound like much but it adds up when you buy 120 - 130 litres every 9 days 8O

[tombraider]

Originally posted by Ralf_the_RR
Yes they take up space, but so does an esky/fridge, clothes, fishing rods, tent, tools, spares, etc

Maybe, but 40litres of explosive in a vehicle is illegal and dangerous.

And I've never heard of a fridge / clothes / fishing rod exploding!!!!!


Night driving may necessitate a large tank, but there are many servos open 24hrs, and a slight detour may be more economical than carrying extra fuel.
Long trips in the middle of nowhere may also require a large tank, but it has to be very regular.

On the run home from Adelaide ALL bar one service station closes at 8.30pm.

Not having enough fuel is an issue in this instance. No detours for fuel on that run!

And again for safety reasons I think $1000.00 for piece of mind, no fuel inside the vehicle (danger!) extra space inside the vehicle as a bonus and no possibility of insurance being void due to fuel inside the vehicle.

Also, my ecomony doesnt change if theres 10litres or 100 litres in the tank, my KM/litre doesnt change at all.

Its also, more stable (weight is lower down - every bit helps).

And the dangers of decanting fuel cant be explained in so few words, regardless of handling techniques.


Buying a long range tank at $1000 and then only filling it to 60L is a complete waste. There are alternatives, so thinking, planning, budgeting, and packing is required.

Who said we always do this?

I wait till fuels at a low point (or have a docket) or both! Then fill the bugger to the brim! This has saved me money over the last 8 years. Anything up to 0.05/0.06 cents per litre at times. That adds up too!


I don't mean to offend anyone that has outlayed big dollars (or already installed), but it comes down to need. If there is a need, then go for it. If it's for the occasional extra fuel, then go the alternative.

If we were talking a single jerry can maybe.... But when were talking 2+ jerry cans I'd say theres a NEED to do this, and a NEED to be legal.

Scrimping on safety is false economy... Whats life worth? Whats safety worth? Dont get me started on this one!

Cheers
Mike

[Ralf_the_RR]

Yes they take up space, but so does an esky/fridge, clothes, fishing rods, tent, tools, spares, etc

Maybe, but 40litres of explosive in a vehicle is illegal and dangerous.

Is it illegal?
And what's dangerous about a sealed container (that doesn't leak)?


And I've never heard of a fridge / clothes / fishing rod exploding!!!!!

And I haven't heard of a jerry can exploding either. Not to say that hasn't happened, but I've never heard of one. A quick google found no evidence.



[quote=tombraider]Not having enough fuel is an issue in this instance. No detours for fuel on that run!

And again for safety reasons I think $1000.00 for piece of mind, no fuel inside the vehicle (danger!) extra space inside the vehicle as a bonus and no possibility of insurance being void due to fuel inside the vehicle.

What Danger? Sealed container - no danger.
Just read my insurance PDS - no probs.


Also, my ecomony doesnt change if theres 10litres or 100 litres in the tank, my KM/litre doesnt change at all.

I bet it does


Its also, more stable (weight is lower down - every bit helps).

Jerrys at floor level or on an external carrier will not effect this - Roof yes


And the dangers of decanting fuel cant be explained in so few words, regardless of handling techniques.

No more dangerous than filling up at the bowser.


[quote=tombraider]
I wait till fuels at a low point (or have a docket) or both! Then fill the bugger to the brim! This has saved me money over the last 8 years. Anything up to 0.05/0.06 cents per litre at times. That adds up too!

Can't dispute this.


[quote=tombraider]
Scrimping on safety is false economy... Whats life worth? Whats safety worth? Dont get me started on this one!

Jerry cans are safe. But they must be cared for. Any holes, leaks, rust, and they should be tossed.
I'm not sure, but I would think the seal is replaceable (never had to replace one).


Cheers
Mike

[tombraider]

Yes they take up space, but so does an esky/fridge, clothes, fishing rods, tent, tools, spares, etc

Maybe, but 40litres of explosive in a vehicle is illegal and dangerous.

Is it illegal?
And what's dangerous about a sealed container (that doesn't leak)?

But you cant say they dont leak... Petrol expands with heat, then tanks can pop/wear/blow seals... Even new ones do this - Seen it happen many times on trips.

Plus laws (and I have a copy of them being faxed to me tomorrow morning) state all fuel tanks must ventilate externally. Jerries in vehicle do not comply with this.

Also, fuel containers cannot be carried inside the passenger cell. In a 4wd wagon this means anywhere inside the vehicle.


And I've never heard of a fridge / clothes / fishing rod exploding!!!!!

And I haven't heard of a jerry can exploding either. Not to say that hasn't happened, but I've never heard of one. A quick google found no evidence.[/quote]

Oh! Well that must mean jerries have never leaked and caused fires inside vehicles.. Maybe my choice of 'explode' was wrong but leaking and fires have definately occurred (ask any country SES member)




Not having enough fuel is an issue in this instance. No detours for fuel on that run!

And again for safety reasons I think $1000.00 for piece of mind, no fuel inside the vehicle (danger!) extra space inside the vehicle as a bonus and no possibility of insurance being void due to fuel inside the vehicle.

What Danger? Sealed container - no danger.
Just read my insurance PDS - no probs.

Sealed but no venting... Seals fail, thats why LPG tanks are also vented to the external of the vehicle.

Insurance doesnt specify you need you headlights on either, but you do...
Come on lets get real here.





Also, my ecomony doesnt change if theres 10litres or 100 litres in the tank, my KM/litre doesnt change at all.

I bet it does[/quote]

Sure! Just like I get better economy if I dont each lunch before the trip.
Diesel, no noticeable change to my economy if loaded, just me, or towing small trailer.... Still get same distance for same amount (always within 6-7 litres) per fill.



Its also, more stable (weight is lower down - every bit helps).

Jerrys at floor level or on an external carrier will not effect this - Roof yes[/quote]

So your carriers at chassis level or lower? Your floors lower than the fuel tank?



And the dangers of decanting fuel cant be explained in so few words, regardless of handling techniques.

No more dangerous than filling up at the bowser.[/quote]

Bulldust! Fuel Bowsers are specifically earthed all the way from the tank, pump, hose and nozzle. They have anti-static controls in place, including the ability to discharge static in your body. They make metal to metal contact with the vehicle fill point when filling up and remain earthed to ground at all times.

One of the most dangerous things is filling fuel cans off the ground, and/or without the nozzle firmly contacting the container.

Your arguing with a former Aircraft Tech who did all the safety training in refuelling.





I wait till fuels at a low point (or have a docket) or both! Then fill the bugger to the brim! This has saved me money over the last 8 years. Anything up to 0.05/0.06 cents per litre at times. That adds up too!

Can't dispute this.

So theres your arguement? In the long run we save money and are safe and legal.





Scrimping on safety is false economy... Whats life worth? Whats safety worth? Dont get me started on this one!

Jerry cans are safe. But they must be cared for. Any holes, leaks, rust, and they should be tossed.
I'm not sure, but I would think the seal is replaceable (never had to replace one).

OK, their safe... Is that why EVERY motoring body says [i]Do NOT place inside vehicle[/] why carriage of petrol inside the occupant space is illegal? Why petrol is classed hazardous and diesel on its own is not?

I watched 2 (two) jerries fail on a Simpson crossing. Both were in excellent condition when filled. Guess what... Seal Failure.

Whilst the placement wasnt the best, it was lucky they were on the roofrack as when they leaked the leak was quickly spotted via the liquid running down the glass.


This is right up there with people who want tyres, round and black and cheap.... Or cheap brake pads / rotors.....

This is a safety issue plain and simple. Carrying petrol inside a vehicle is dangerous and illegal....

Apply your logic to your vehicle insurance... "Only need it occasionally" why pay for it at all then? Take the chance.... Probably wont happen... And the savings mean if it does you could most likely pay for the repairs!!!



I'm not getting into this anymore...



Cheers
Mike

[tombraider]

Yes they take up space, but so does an esky/fridge, clothes, fishing rods, tent, tools, spares, etc

Maybe, but 40litres of explosive in a vehicle is illegal and dangerous.

Is it illegal?
And what's dangerous about a sealed container (that doesn't leak)?

But you cant say they dont leak... Petrol expands with heat, then tanks can pop/wear/blow seals... Even new ones do this - Seen it happen many times on trips.

Plus laws (and I have a copy of them being faxed to me tomorrow morning) state all fuel tanks must ventilate externally. Jerries in vehicle do not comply with this.

Also, fuel containers cannot be carried inside the passenger cell. In a 4wd wagon this means anywhere inside the vehicle.


And I've never heard of a fridge / clothes / fishing rod exploding!!!!!

And I haven't heard of a jerry can exploding either. Not to say that hasn't happened, but I've never heard of one. A quick google found no evidence.[/quote]

Oh! Well that must mean jerries have never leaked and caused fires inside vehicles.. Maybe my choice of 'explode' was wrong but leaking and fires have definately occurred (ask any country SES member)




Not having enough fuel is an issue in this instance. No detours for fuel on that run!

And again for safety reasons I think $1000.00 for piece of mind, no fuel inside the vehicle (danger!) extra space inside the vehicle as a bonus and no possibility of insurance being void due to fuel inside the vehicle.

What Danger? Sealed container - no danger.
Just read my insurance PDS - no probs.

Sealed but no venting... Seals fail, thats why LPG tanks are also vented to the external of the vehicle.

Insurance doesnt specify you need you headlights on either, but you do...
Come on lets get real here.





Also, my ecomony doesnt change if theres 10litres or 100 litres in the tank, my KM/litre doesnt change at all.

I bet it does[/quote]

Sure! Just like I get better economy if I dont each lunch before the trip.
Diesel, no noticeable change to my economy if loaded, just me, or towing small trailer.... Still get same distance for same amount (always within 6-7 litres) per fill.



Its also, more stable (weight is lower down - every bit helps).

Jerrys at floor level or on an external carrier will not effect this - Roof yes[/quote]

So your carriers at chassis level or lower? Your floors lower than the fuel tank?

And where do you put the vapour filled 'empties' once your done?



And the dangers of decanting fuel cant be explained in so few words, regardless of handling techniques.

No more dangerous than filling up at the bowser.[/quote]

Bulldust! Fuel Bowsers are specifically earthed all the way from the tank, pump, hose and nozzle. They have anti-static controls in place, including the ability to discharge static in your body. They make metal to metal contact with the vehicle fill point when filling up and remain earthed to ground at all times.

One of the most dangerous things is filling fuel cans off the ground, and/or without the nozzle firmly contacting the container.

Your arguing with a former Aircraft Tech who did all the safety training in refuelling.





I wait till fuels at a low point (or have a docket) or both! Then fill the bugger to the brim! This has saved me money over the last 8 years. Anything up to 0.05/0.06 cents per litre at times. That adds up too!

Can't dispute this.

So theres your arguement? In the long run we save money and are safe and legal.





Scrimping on safety is false economy... Whats life worth? Whats safety worth? Dont get me started on this one!

Jerry cans are safe. But they must be cared for. Any holes, leaks, rust, and they should be tossed.
I'm not sure, but I would think the seal is replaceable (never had to replace one).

OK, if they're safe... Why is that why EVERY motoring body says Do NOT place inside vehicle or why carriage of petrol inside the occupant space is illegal? Luckily Diesel is not subjeect to this as it isnt classified the same.

I watched 2 (two) jerries fail on a Simpson crossing. Both were in excellent condition when filled. Guess what... Seal Failure.

Whilst the placement wasnt the best, it was lucky they were on the roofrack as when they leaked the leak was quickly spotted via the liquid running down the glass.

Your money saving arguement is right up there with people who want tyres, round and black and cheap.... Or cheap brake pads / rotors.....
Considering this takes life into your hands it surprises the hell out of me.

This is a safety issue plain and simple. Carrying petrol inside a vehicle is dangerous and illegal....

Apply your logic to your vehicle insurance... "Only need it occasionally" why pay for it at all then? Take the chance.... Probably wont happen... And the savings mean if it does you could most likely pay for the repairs!!!



I'm not getting into this anymore...



Cheers
Mike

[rick130]

Harry, come for a drive a bit further up the valley, there are no servos open 24 hours between Singleton and Tamworth. OK, that's only a stretch of 200km or so, but most are closed at 7:00, Murrurundi is open till 11:00 and can't remember what time Willow Tree shuts.

Not saying this is a justification for a long range tank, just that fuel availability outside a metro area isn't always that available, even relatively close to the big smoke on a major Highway. My 130 came with a 65l sill tank, and I've used it. The missus Patrol comes factory equipped with an extra 80l tank, and we use it, as she's towing horses all around the countryside and it drinks faily well when towing.
Would I have forked out my hard earned to fit a sill tank if the beast didn't come with one ? Debatable, but the practicality of having it is nice and I'll continue to use it.

[Ralf_the_RR]

OK, this getting very long winded.

My point is, if there is a need, then get a tank.
If not, then there are alternatives.
I don't think a trip 1 or 2 times a year justifies the expense.
Regular driving with a lack of fuel availabilty does.

And the excuse that a servo is not open 24hrs doesn't have much weight.
A holiday/trip is planned, and normally driving is done through the day.
If you arrive somewhere late at night, then camp and fill up the next morning.

I am curious about the legalities though.
I was unaware that it was illegal to carry fuel in the cab.
That makes it very difficult to get lawnmower fuel!
(which are filled without earthing)

This may raise another question about sill tanks that fill through the floor.
How legal are they?
(mine fill through the wheel arches, which is a bit ordinary sometimes).

[Hellspawn]

Originally posted by Ralf_the_RR


I am curious about the legalities though.
I was unaware that it was illegal to carry fuel in the cab.
That makes it very difficult to get lawnmower fuel!
(which are filled without earthing)

This may raise another question about sill tanks that fill through the floor.
How legal are they?
(mine fill through the wheel arches, which is a bit ordinary sometimes).

Think it's up to a certain volume, similar to ag chemicals, buy 1L Roundup at woolworths and put in the back of the car with groceries. Try and put a 20L Roundup in the back and the seller (if they're fair dinkum) won't allow the purchase.

Find this refilling debate interesting, especially since so far it's been steel related tanks. Plastics are different again for both refilling and decanting as they are out there for vehicles not just as "jerry cans".

I think refilling automotive vehicles and temporary storages is highly dangerous. It would be good practice if we adopt aviation style procedures where the first point of contact is not the nozzle of the pump but a designated earthing lead attached to the recepticle before filling.

As a concerning point, I've tried that procedure out of convenience and several fuel station operators demanded my two 60L petrol drums (old steel thinners drums) be placed on the forecourt from my trailer to be what they consider "earthed" before permitting refilling them. They don't lift those drums back in full, I do and would much prefer not needing to do so. It is not suffice to them of my logic to earth my steel trailer to the pump with a set of 400amp booster cables prior to filling. I thought "earthed" was "earthed" but as usual logic in my world never seems logical to anyone else. 8O :roll:

[Ralf_the_RR]

Originally posted by Hellspawn

As a concerning point, I've tried that procedure out of convenience and several fuel station operators demanded my two 60L petrol drums (old steel thinners drums) be placed on the forecourt from my trailer to be what they consider "earthed" before permitting refilling them. They don't lift those drums back in full, I do and would much prefer not needing to do so. It is not suffice to them of my logic to earth my steel trailer to the pump with a set of 400amp booster cables prior to filling. I thought "earthed" was "earthed" but as usual logic in my world never seems logical to anyone else. 8O :roll:

What a bunch of fools.
Your vehicle is not earthed. It has rubber tyres!
No difference between fuel tanks in a trailer, and the vehicle fuel tank.
We don't attach earth leads to refuel a car.

As Mike said, the earth is through the nozzle.

[tombraider]

On a slight note, and not being argumentative...

Just useless info to clutter your brains https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

Tyres are rubber, yes... And are "mostly" insulative...

Until they get a decent whack!

Rubber is strengthened by the use of Carbon Black.. (hence they're black)

Carbon black is, at certain levels, conductive....

So there you go!

Cheers
Mike

[rick130]

Once upon a time I flew. When I went (back) to racing cars, the flying had to stop, but I used to back to the airport for my fuel as I knew the blokes, etc, etc. (also something about being cheaper, no excise :wink:)
One day I rocked up and didn't know the bloke in the office, told him I was after 60l and off we went to the bowser. You should have seen him scratching his head trying to clamp the earth strap on to a Rheem plastic fuel jerry.... https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

[4bee]

Interesting topic.

If I do need to carry a 20 Litre of unleaded inside, I ensure that the seal does not leak by laying it on it's side in the sun for a couple of hours after wiring the cap down tight. When in the vehicle, it sits rear RH corner adjacent to the fresh air outlet to the exterior. This always has air flowing out of it fan or no fan.

It is anchored down hard to the tie rings with a professional ratchet strap & that buckle is also locked of with wire so it cannot open.

Overkill? Maybe. But that's the way I like it. Belts & braces.

[PhilipA]

When I worked for Ford as young man , we had a problem when XD was introd in 1979.These were the first with plastic tanks Several cars spontaneously combusted.
The first was a policeman in Winton who filled his car from the police 44gallon drum with a Mcnaught pump. trouble was that the pump nozzle had a bit a garden hose on it. I bet he had a bit of trouble explaining it.

The static electricity of the fuel travelling through the hose sent a spark across to the body of the car igniting the vapour coming out of the tank.
There was a recall which fitted an earth between the number plate frame and body to ensure an earth between the nozzle and car.
I think it is mainly a problem where there is a faulty earth on the pump.
There has also never been an instance of a mobile phone causing a fuel vapour fire at a fuel station, but its theoretically possible.
regards Philip A

[Pedro_The_Swift]

What there has been is documented cases of women in America fueling cars that ignite .
The cause, they say, is women tend to wear nylon dresses, and after setting the pump, GET BACK IN THE CAR to do whatever, get money, do their nails,
and boom.

[JDNSW]

Interesting that while aviation refuelling requires elaborate earthing procedures, these are not followed for cars - and ignition while fuelling is extremely rare. Also note that most concerns are with petrol rather than diesel. I became very much a convert to diesel while working in the Simpson Desert in the 1960s when we lost a FJ40 due to a fuel fire. These, like the original jeep had the fuel tank(s) actually inside the body, under the front seats. The vehicle had just been refuelled, and obviously leaked from the filler hose, so there was a pool of petrol under the front seat. Fortunately, as they drove off from the fuel dump, they had gone about fifty yards before the centre front passenger lit his cigarette with a match - and waved it between his knees to extinguish it, resulting in an abrupt stop and a quick exit. The fire almost immediately burnt through the plastic fuel lines and was fed by a steady flow of petrol from both tanks, proving impossible to extinguish. I have been involved with a number of other vehicle fires where petrol has ignited following leaks or external heat, but none where diesel has ignited, although it should be noted that once ignited diesel burns just as well as petrol and is just as hard to extinguish. My County has a 60l belly tank and my 2a has dual tanks - both were so equipped when I bought them, and I would find life difficult without the extra capacity, although I don't know how much I would pay to fit them if I did not have them. It is all very well to say that you can't put a price on safety, but most people do not have unlimited finances, and have to make decisions on risk versus cost all the time. The thing is to make these decisions on the basis of real data and understanding, not guesses. John

[Captain_Rightfoot]

Interesting thread this. I am going to get a larger tank for our defender, but it will probably only be a auxillary one. We won't replaced the mains as all the tanks I've seen stick down too far. I like how the factory tank is tucked up out of the way.

We really don't need a bigger tank. However, it would be nice to have just a little more range from time to time so one of the 60l aux tanks will probably do.. but I need to do more research.

And for our one truly big trip a year, instead of having eight (8) 20l jerry cans like we did last year, I'll try and find a second hand truck tank of about 160/200l that I can mount in the car. I will only fill this at the last jump off point. That way safety is less of a issue as you are only travelling really slowly, and it is in the cold part of the year :)

[Grizzly_Adams]

Interesting thread this. I am going to get a larger tank for our defender, but it will probably only be a auxillary one. We won't replaced the mains as all the tanks I've seen stick down too far. I like how the factory tank is tucked up out of the way.


G'day Captain Rightfoot.

I just had a Long Ranger (tm) Long Range tank fitted to my 300tdi Defender 110 Station Wagon. I opted for a replacement tank instead of an Auxilliary. The biggest replacement tank did, as you say, droop down a little and some clearance was lost. However the 2nd biggest (TR40 / 120ltr) was designed such that I lost no clearance at all.

If you have a look at the line from the bottom of the diff to the rearmost point on the chassis I have not lost any clearance by the long range tank.

I'd take a photo and to show you what I mean, but she's back in the shop getting more work done at the moment.


Grizzly.

[Captain_Rightfoot]

G'day Captain Rightfoot.

I just had a Long Ranger (tm) Long Range tank fitted to my 300tdi Defender 110 Station Wagon. I opted for a replacement tank instead of an Auxilliary. The biggest replacement tank did, as you say, droop down a little and some clearance was lost. However the 2nd biggest (TR40 / 120ltr) was designed such that I lost no clearance at all.

If you have a look at the line from the bottom of the diff to the rearmost point on the chassis I have not lost any clearance by the long range tank.

I'd take a photo and to show you what I mean, but she's back in the shop getting more work done at the moment.


Grizzly.
Thanks Grizzly, that would be great :) :) There is no rush... were not going anywhere all that interesting until next year :)

Maybe taking photos of all the different tanks might be an idea for a FAQ?

[mr_sav]

....My County has a 60l belly tank and my 2a has dual John

JD,

I am interested where your 60l resides on the County. I have removed my sill tank from my old county (Under Driver Seat) and am about to fit it to my now commissioned county. The fuel filler for this is through the floor plan in the driver side. I will need to cut a hole. It has a Marine Fuel Gauge Dip/Cap.

Originally a Manual handle was fitted near the Fuel Filter to switch between tanks, however now thinking about putting in a pump to push the auxillary over to the main tank.

Open to ideas / recommendations on both types of solutions.

Regarding Jerry Cans, If I am doing an extended trip, I have my off-road trailer, which has carry bays for 4 Cans, whether Water or Diesel. I like to carry at least 2 Diesel Jerry Can's just in case I need fuel from a seperate source.

[JDNSW]

JD,

I am interested where your 60l resides on the County. I have removed my sill tank from my old county (Under Driver Seat) and am about to fit it to my now commissioned county. The fuel filler for this is through the floor plan in the driver side. I will need to cut a hole. It has a Marine Fuel Gauge Dip/Cap.

(snip)

My tank fills the space from the crossmember in front of the rear axle to just behind the transfer case, and from the LH chassis rail to about 50mm from the prop shaft. The bottom is just below the level of the chassis rails at their lowest point before they bend up to go over the axle, with a skid plate on the bottom, and the outlet protected. It has an upper extension into the seat box to increase the capacity - but if I were building it I probably would not bother! Filling is via a filler teed into the filler neck just below the top, and then via a pipe horizontally outside the chassis sitting on the top spring mount and between the chassis and body where the chassis dips down just behind the rear door. Fuel gauge is an aftermarket one I added (was none when I bought it) accessible by removing the rear passenger floor. There is a changeover tap behind the driver's feet. The vent is teed into the main fuel tank vent.
This arrangement means that when operating on the auxiliary tank the fuel return fills the main, but if this is full it will overflow either via the vent pipe or the filler back into the auxiliary tank. If the main is not full, fuel is transferred to it until it is - or the auxiliary is empty (you can see why I added a fuel gauge!)
Hope this helps - I can probably get a photo of it, but there is not a lot to see except the skid plate.
John

[dobbo]

Wouldn't it be better to get a plastic tank for the D2, afterall the original is plastic, why not replace it with another plastic one of greater capacity

[Tusker]

Something else that no-one has mentioned - I don't think - is that a bigger tank gives you more options where to refill.

This is really important with a diesel, dodging the smaller country towns that might have dodgy fuel. That stuff caused a pump/injector rebuild on my old tdi. The price of TD5 injectors was $1800 each - I think it's come down now - so there's no way I'll refuel my TD5 at anywhere other than the highway majors unless I have to. Aim for where the semis are, that'll be where the freshest fuel is.

Not thats much choice at Mt Dare, or Cameron Corner etc, but you can minimise the risk with a long range tank.

Regards
Max P

[BigJon]

TD5 Injectors run to about $2300 each retail these days. Just about to put a claim in for one...

[DiscoTDI]

Just my 2 cents, how many people here know that there is a 20l limit on external tanks on vehicles in certain areas, Fraser island being one of them (When I say Petrol, I mean petrol as there is no limit on diesel as far as I know)

[Grizzly_Adams]

Thanks Grizzly, that would be great :) :) There is no rush... were not going anywhere all that interesting until next year :)

Maybe taking photos of all the different tanks might be an idea for a FAQ?

Sorry for taking so long Capt'n, however here are the photo's I promised:

Showing the Long Ranger TR40 120ltr replacement tank
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2006/07/151.jpg

Showing departure angle has not changed since I got my towbar
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2006/07/152.jpg

Show departure angle again, different view
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2006/07/153.jpg

Hope this helps.

[LoadedDisco]

I have the same tank as shown but a 130Ltr version fitted to the Disco. It also gives a better departure angle than the original tank. They are a good replacement tank made out off steel.

[DEFENDERZOOK]

all these tanks are great......but why do they cost over a grand....?
is there that much labour gone into making them.....?



or is most of that profit......?
someone must have an answer to this......

[Grizzly_Adams]

all these tanks are great......but why do they cost over a grand....?
is there that much labour gone into making them.....?



or is most of that profit......?
someone must have an answer to this......

Actually I would guess it is the opposite - because they don't make that many tanks they don't have a regular production line thingy going, so the cost is higher.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

saw one being made once,,

it was only a small one for a single seater off road buggy,,
about 8 years ago,
maybe around 70 litres??
plus baffles,
plus filler neck,
plus breathers,
plus mounting brackets,


plus its still in the car---


as far as I know--


cheap I reckon,,,,,

[DEFENDERZOOK]

the first of anything is gonna take time and effort and be trial and error....
thats why its called a prototype....

the second is the improved version......

the third has all the bugs ironed out and is good......
and by this time a template is available.....and experience at building has been gained.....
im sure they make more than 3 of each tank......

maybe im just too broke to see it as cheap.......?
then i would have to worry about filling it....!!!!! :eek:



Doh!!

[Grizzly_Adams]

then i would have to worry about filling it....!!!!! :eek:



Doh!!

Ah yeah well that's another matter entirely. Spent $120 last night and only 3/4 filled the tank at $1.32ltr :o

[Captain_Rightfoot]

Thanks for doing that Grizzly. I have a feeling that my towbar is a bit of a different shape and so on. I'll take a photo of it later and we can compare.

[BigJon]

$1.32 per litre?? Where abouts, what fuel, can I have some?? Unleaded is currently about $1.48 per litre, I don't even want to think about diesel costs!:o

[Rovy]

Is it just me or does everyone have this problem. It takes me up to 15min to get the last 35L of fuel into my tank (long range aftermarket). It just keeps foaming up and shutting the pump off or I need to trickle it in. It is a real pain, any suggestions???

[Jojo]

Hi,
to get back to the original question, have you tried here:
http://www.4wdsystems.com.au/html/main.htm

They have a wide range of auxiliary/replacement tanks at a very competitive pricing. I'll probably will get one myself since the original fuel tank needs to be replaced anyway.
Check them out!
Cheers

[weeds]

Is it just me or does everyone have this problem. It takes me up to 15min to get the last 35L of fuel into my tank (long range aftermarket). It just keeps foaming up and shutting the pump off or I need to trickle it in. It is a real pain, any suggestions???

i have an aftermarket tank and yes it foams up a bit, if i lift the nozzle a bit and ensure its pointing right in the middle of the filler i can normally att he full rate, i keep the nozzle just above the foam

[George130]

I have the same shape 130L main tank as grizly and the 37 litre side tank. Since they act as one tank yes I do have the hassle of you fill it wait a bit and the level goes down as the two tanks even out. Normally the difference is only around 5 litres so its not to bad. Its worst with the high flow pumps. As for filling that can realy hurt $208 tonight and $1.439 (Cheapest its been for a while).

[DeeJay]

Just to put my pennyworth in.
I would put forward that the jerrycan failures are because most I have used lately are crap.
They just don't make em like they should, and how they pass standards is beyond me.
I am still regularly using 1950 and 1952 ex army jerries.
But I wont carry them inside the vehicles anymore- only due to commonsense- bugger any laws.:D
The oldies have outlived 2 sets of new ones now.
Regards,
David

[RobHay]

Don't forget the cost of filling the tank.

He never said anything about filling it, he just said he wanted to fit them........I suspect so he can brag that he has them.......cos who can afford to fill them.....unless he going to do a drive away....then he will need to get dummy plates.

[Rovy]

i have an aftermarket tank and yes it foams up a bit, if i lift the nozzle a bit and ensure its pointing right in the middle of the filler i can normally att he full rate, i keep the nozzle just above the foam

Thanks Weeds and George,
I will try for the middle of the filler next time, that is next month when it is time to fill 'er up again. Up until now I have been trying to direct/swirl the fuel around the sides.

[rick130]

saw one being made once,,

it was only a small one for a single seater off road buggy,,
about 8 years ago,
maybe around 70 litres??
plus baffles,
plus filler neck,
plus breathers,
plus mounting brackets,


plus its still in the car---


as far as I know--


cheap I reckon,,,,,
had one made up out of aluminuim 13 years ago for an open wheeler, only about 15 litres but a pretty complex shape, seeing as it sits right behind the driver and in front of the roll bar/bulkhead in the car. Used my old filler and I foam filled the thing, and IIRC it was only around $260, or was it $150???, anyway, whatever it was I reckoned it was cheap at the time. A motorbike repair mob at Ingleburn made it, and a damn fine job they made of it too.

[George130]

Thanks Weeds and George,
I will try for the middle of the filler next time, that is next month when it is time to fill 'er up again. Up until now I have been trying to direct/swirl the fuel around the sides.

Wish I only filled mine that often. I fill mine every 9 or 10 days:eek: . I normally put about 130 litres in at a time.

[DEFENDERZOOK]

for those of you with the long range tanks.......

would it not be more economical for you to not fill the tank.......so you are not carrying all that extra weight around......
if you carry less weight....you will need less fuel....?
unless of course you are going away on a trip.......

[Grizzly_Adams]

for those of you with the long range tanks.......

would it not be more economical for you to not fill the tank.......so you are not carrying all that extra weight around......
if you carry less weight....you will need less fuel....?
unless of course you are going away on a trip.......

That's basically what I do. I put 90ltrs in at a time (so about half again the size of the normal tank). I haven't worked out the maths at the best weight / fuel usage percentage, that was just a SWAG.

I'll fill her up in town at a "known" good quality petrol station before I head out on a trip.

[rick130]

for those of you with the long range tanks.......

would it not be more economical for you to not fill the tank.......so you are not carrying all that extra weight around......
if you carry less weight....you will need less fuel....?
unless of course you are going away on a trip.......

Tony, I can't remember the last time I filled the auxillary tank for that very reason as all I've been doing is driving to and from jobs, as well as the odd trip to Sydney.

[George130]

I always fill it and work on the idea that the 5 or more cents per litre I save filling in town will offset any extra consumption. Its also easier for monitoring the consumption.

[Rovy]

I also thought you should keep them as full as possible to prevent/reduce condensation during winter. The ride is also alot better with a full tank.