Hydrogen electric vehicles doing 2000kms

[DiscoMick]

Interesting information, I thought.

Are electric cars viable for regional Australians?
Hydrogen power could finally get regional Australians excited about electric cars - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-04-11/electric-cars-regional-australia-hydrogen-power-exports-policy/10988844)

[goingbush]

And theres this.

"Refillable" battery tech could allow electric cars over 5000km range | RenewEconomy (https://reneweconomy.com.au/refillable-battery-tech-could-allow-electric-cars-over-5000km-range-73636/)

[goingbush]

Electric Cars are already more than viable for Regional Australia .

According to the ABS




Average commuting distance by four BITRE regional classifications varied widely. Commuting distances in Coastal Significant Urban Areas (SUAs) above 30,000 was 14.1 km and in Coastal SUAs with 10,000-30,000 population it was 16.5 km. Coastal country regions had a significantly higher average of 25.8 km, whilst Remote regions had an average of 31.2 km.


from https://bitre.gov.au/publications/2015/files/is_073.pdf

[blackrangie]

Interesting information, I thought.

Are electric cars viable for regional Australians?
Hydrogen power could finally get regional Australians excited about electric cars - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-04-11/electric-cars-regional-australia-hydrogen-power-exports-policy/10988844)"[Hydrogen powered electric cars] are coming online and will be available this year or next, that will be able to drive nearly 2,000 kilometres with a full payload. "

Interesting

Maybe a combo of hydro + bat electric cars are next best option up from a horse for a low emissions 4x4 remote tourer that also spends time in town. [emoji6]

Hopefully LR's MLA is flexible enough to adapt as needed.

[travelrover]

"[Hydrogen powered electric cars] are coming online and will be available this year or next, that will be able to drive nearly 2,000 kilometres with a full payload. "

Interesting

Maybe a combo of hydro + bat electric cars are next best option up from a horse for a low emissions 4x4 remote tourer that also spends time in town. [emoji6]

Hopefully LR's MLA is flexible enough to adapt as needed.

Horses probably fart too much to fall into the low emission category under the current guidelines. ;-)

[blackrangie]

Horses probably fart too much to fall into the low emission category under the current guidelines. ;-)[emoji23][emoji1787]

[DiscoMick]

Don't forget cows and sheep.

[Disco-tastic]

Edited by p38arover :Video link deleted.

Do not post videos with foul language. You should know better.

[scarry]

Electric Cars are already more than viable for Regional Australia .

According to the ABS




from https://bitre.gov.au/publications/2015/files/is_073.pdf



Not accurate information at all.
Its 2011 data,and is worked out on the "shortest path of road network distance".
And is the distance from home to work.

Many use vehicles a lot more than just home to work.

I know families in regional areas that drive over 350K's just to go to the shops,and huge distances just to take the kids to school.Their vehicles clock up 50 to 60 thousand k's a year.

Of course everyone is different,but our private vehicle has always clocked up around 30 000k's a year,plus the work vehicle is close to 40 000K per annum.

In fact,the average mileage for vehicles,as per RACQ is 15 000KM a year,which equates to around 41km/day for every day of the year.

A vehicle that only does 15 000km a year may do thousands of k's one week,then nothing a few other weeks.

What we really need for city drivers is a much better public transport system,but thats an issue for another thread.

[goingbush]

Statistics are just that. Its an average . 1000 people may well drive 350km per day , combined with 100,000 that drive 25 km per day = an average of = 28.2km per day .


Ive lived in RURAL Yarrawonga for 3 years now and 320 days of the year I drive no more that 22 km a day , 10 days a year I'll drive 150km , and one day a year I need to go to Sydney or Melbourne . But Last time I had to go to Sydney I took the train , An Electric will do just fine for me .

[blackrangie]

Edited by p38arover - removed link to bad language videoSo 30% loss of energy making it, ok

CO2 is released making it.
How much compared to ICE engines running petrol or diesel?

He says a better solution is to use natural gas?

Wow.. what a terrible solution.. he obviously hasn't watched the "gasland" doco.

I don't think electric cars or hydrogen cars are the Holy Grail of Zero emissions, however from where I'm sitting they are a much better option than what we have now for the environment.


Question is how much better and is it worth it for the environment.

Cost to the consumer is not the issue, like food,generally rubbish food is made cheaply, good food is the right price.

[Disco-tastic]

So 30% loss of energy making it, ok

CO2 is released making it.
How much compared to ICE engines running petrol or diesel?

He says a better solution is to use natural gas?

Wow.. what a terrible solution.. he obviously hasn't watched the "gasland" doco.

I don't think electric cars or hydrogen cars are the Holy Grail of Zero emissions, however from where I'm sitting they are a much better option than what we have now for the environment.


Question is how much better and is it worth it for the environment.

Cost to the consumer is not the issue, like food,generally rubbish food is made cheaply, good food is the right price.

Hes saying that essentially they are taking methane (and i think other hydrocarbons) and breaking it into hydrogen and CO2, and releasing the CO2 to atmosphere, at an energy loss of 30% compared to the methane by itself (im not sure if that accounts for the energy input into processing the methane or if the end product has 30% less energy than the hydrogen).

Using locally sourced CNG would be a more efficient use of the energy (you dont lose the extra 30%) while shoring up australias fuel security.

I havent watched gasland but it appears to talk mainly about fracking? There are other ways to retrieve natural gas, which is where a lot of usable methane comes from.

As with most "renewable" or "green" vehicle fuels (including electricity), in Australia all they do is move the emissions somewhere else. There is a benefit for city populations as far as air pollution is concerned, but as a whole it is not a green, or renewable solution (at least at the moment)

[goingbush]

I cant see the issue, the Sun has more than enough energy to run the entire planet, Its been doing so for millions of years . No brainer.

The Yellow square is all the area of solar panels needed to run the entire USA .

Australia would need less than 13% of that .

How much solar would it take to power the U.S.? - Freeing Energy (https://www.freeingenergy.com/how-much-solar-would-it-take-to-power-the-u-s/)

https://i2.wp.com/www.freeingenergy.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Solar-required-for-US-all-21500-sq-mi-1024x553.png'resize=1024%2C553

[PhilipA]

On a sunny day.
As long as you put the panels in Nevada or New Mexico. Texas , Louisiana, Florida maybe not as look what happened in the hurricane in Puerto Rico. And of course the doomsdayers say more Hurricanes although there have actually been fewer.

Then you have to build a distribution system to Washington and New York that could take the wattage required.

I am afraid panels don't work in the north of the USA as they are covered in snow for weeks at a time.

Then you have to install about the same area of batteries so that the power can be available at night.

Oh then you have to build an equal wattage of gas turbine power stations for when the sun don't shine.

Regards Philip A

[blackrangie]

Hes saying that essentially they are taking methane (and i think other hydrocarbons) and breaking it into hydrogen and CO2, and releasing the CO2 to atmosphere, at an energy loss of 30% compared to the methane by itself (im not sure if that accounts for the energy input into processing the methane or if the end product has 30% less energy than the hydrogen).

Using locally sourced CNG would be a more efficient use of the energy (you dont lose the extra 30%) while shoring up australias fuel security.

I havent watched gasland but it appears to talk mainly about fracking? There are other ways to retrieve natural gas, which is where a lot of usable methane comes from.

As with most "renewable" or "green" vehicle fuels (including electricity), in Australia all they do is move the emissions somewhere else. There is a benefit for city populations as far as air pollution is concerned, but as a whole it is not a green, or renewable solution (at least at the moment)The Environmental and Social Impacts of Natural Gas Fracking (https://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2017/04/17/the-environmental-and-social-impacts-of-natural-gas-fracking/#7539a3361a76)

What percentage of gas in Australia comes from this procedure?

After watching Gasland, it will change your view on gas.

If there are other ways of extracting gas that is fine but unless gas companies can guarantee that that is the only way that they extract their gas and supply it to you the problem still exists.

[blackrangie]

I cant see the issue, the Sun has more than enough energy to run the entire planet, Its been doing so for millions of years . No brainer.

The Yellow square is all the area of solar panels needed to run the entire USA .

Australia would need less than 13% of that .

How much solar would it take to power the U.S.? - Freeing Energy (https://www.freeingenergy.com/how-much-solar-would-it-take-to-power-the-u-s/)

https://i2.wp.com/www.freeingenergy.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Solar-required-for-US-all-21500-sq-mi-1024x553.png'resize=1024%2C553100% agree the sun is an incredible resource, one that should be utilised to it's full potential, it's free full of energy, never ending and sustainable.

Amazing really, i think suns core runs at 15million degrees. [emoji15]

[blackrangie]

On a sunny day.
As long as you put the panels in Nevada or New Mexico. Texas , Louisiana, Florida maybe not as look what happened in the hurricane in Puerto Rico. And of course the doomsdayers say more Hurricanes although there have actually been fewer.

Then you have to build a distribution system to Washington and New York that could take the wattage required.

I am afraid panels don't work in the north of the USA as they are covered in snow for weeks at a time.

Then you have to install about the same area of batteries so that the power can be available at night.

Oh then you have to build an equal wattage of gas turbine power stations for when the sun don't shine.

Regards Philip AIt becomes less of an issue when every person looks after their own power with solar panels on their roof and a storage device in their house.

Every inch of cars should also have solar charging material over them imo + regen etc.

[Disco-tastic]

The Environmental and Social Impacts of Natural Gas Fracking (https://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2017/04/17/the-environmental-and-social-impacts-of-natural-gas-fracking/#7539a3361a76)

What percentage of gas in Australia comes from this procedure?

After watching Gasland, it will change your view on gas.

If there are other ways of extracting gas that is fine but unless gas companies can guarantee that that is the only way that they extract their gas and supply it to you the problem still exists.
In johns video he states about 95% of hydrogen gas is obtained from processing hydrocarbons such as methane, because its cheap. Im not sure if thats Australia or world wide.

I believe john cadogen was implying that the methane that is used to make hydrogen gas is obtained from natural gas, and that burning the natural gas in an engine was a more environmentally friendly way of harnessing that energy.

I guess the point i was trying to make was that at present, the infrastructure does not exist to make hydrogen fuelled vehicles a truly green option. Whether they are currently greener than petrol and diesel powered engines appears to be a matter of perspective.

[scarry]

It becomes less of an issue when every person looks after their own power with solar panels on their roof and a storage device in their house.

Every inch of cars should also have solar charging material over them imo + regen etc.

I saw an article recently where roof panels for buildings will actually be solar panels.

Whether it will ever happens,who knows.

[blackrangie]

I saw an article recently where roof panels for buildings will actually be solar panels.

Whether it will ever happens,who knows.Tesla Solar Roof | Tesla Australia (https://www.tesla.com/en_AU/solarroof)

[goingbush]

Some people are happy living in the dark ages, Some people smoke too , same way of thinking to me.
No point arguing if thats the way they choose to live their lives.

[Graeme]

It becomes less of an issue when every person looks after their own power with solar panels on their roof and a storage device in their house.A couple of winters ago we had 42 days straight without seeing the sun. How much battery power does one need to have?

[DiscoMick]

Solar still works on overcast days. Just check the UV index on a rainy day, it can still be high. I have monitored our solar on overcast days and it's still working. So is the solar hot water. Don't forget the ideal temperature for solar is in the 20-25 degree range.

[DiscoMick]

I saw an article recently where roof panels for buildings will actually be solar panels.

Whether it will ever happens,who knows.Monier sells solar roof tiles.

https://www.monier.com.au/solar-roofing/solartile

[blackrangie]

A couple of winters ago we had 42 days straight without seeing the sun. How much battery power does one need to have?Where was this?

[Graeme]

A little north of Wagga NSW.

Our 8kW PV system produces very little on cloudy days.

[blackrangie]

A little north of Wagga NSW.

Our 8kW PV system produces very little on cloudy days.Cheers, Enough to get by?

[Graeme]

8kW so that it generates enough power to run the HWS long enough in winter if the sun is shining - can't do anything about overcast days. Unfortunately export is limited to 5kW in NSW for single phase installations.

[PhilipA]

Regarding rooftop solar panels in the USA.
150068

This is snow coverage in the USA and Canada as at YESTERDAY.

Imagine the snow cover during January, February and March. So it is reasonable to assume that the area was much greater over the last 3 Months. That would really require some big batteries.

I understand that the USA is facing a "French Fry" shortage as the farmers have been unable to plant in Washington and Idaho.
Regards Philip A

[DiscoMick]

What's the UV rating in the areas with snow?
Plenty of solar panels in Germany, where it also snows.

[PhilipA]

Plenty of solar panels in Germany, where it also snows.
And plenty of coal power in Poland which they buy.
Germany has not improved the percentage of renewables over several years , mainly because they have to buy coal power from Poland.

Regards Philip A

[AK83]

.....

I am afraid panels don't work in the north of the USA as they are covered in snow for weeks at a time.

....

Very soon even this issue has the potential to flip around in the near future.

Possible graphene solar panel tech into the future. (https://youtu.be/BKomGuejwRA)

Watch the vid, at about the 5 min mark he explains that using graphene could potentially generate electrical energy due to water on the solar panel surface.
Granted that conversion efficiency is extremely low(up to 6%) .. but any advance is better than none.

[bee utey]

Solar panels in high latitudes can be tilted to near vertical so snow mostly just slides off. Low temperatures are very good for panel output too, 25C is just a test temperature point. They are quite happy to work in sub zero conditions.

[DiscoMick]

Plenty of people get sunburnt in the snow, so UV is still happening.

[ozscott]

It is ironic....driving a Prius into the drive through of Maccas to get a Big Mac that is now available 24 hours a day...

https://www.google.com/url'sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://amp.theguardian.com/environment/2017/sep/29/methane-emissions-cattle-11-percent-higher-than-estimated&ved=2ahUKEwjApPv_l87hAhWWYysKHdtkBok4ChAWMAJ6BAgJE AE&usg=AOvVaw2vPthuzkCzkQYvOxEXUCVp

Which Is Worse for the Planet: Beef or Cars? - EcoWatch (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ecowatch.com/which-is-worse-for-the-planet-beef-or-cars-1919932136.amp.html)

Cow 'emissions' more damaging to planet than CO2 from cars | The Independent (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change/cow-emissions-more-damaging-to-planet-than-co2-from-cars-427843.html%3famp)

The answers are pretty simple. Less meat/No meat and veggies (that take also a small fraction of the water and land requirements of raising meat) and keep driving existing vehicles and save MASSIVE amounts of dollars at least and until battery tech has blitzed the current crop of batteries and transition slowly and in a way which people and economies can afford (Oh...side benefit we save billions on the heart and obesity epidemic alone).

Cheers

[PhilipA]

This thread has veered right off topic, but I found this little clip that shows what snow can be like in the USA, Although this is New Brunswick in Canada.

No solar panels to be seen , but I think they would not be producing much for quite a while if they were there.

I think it is amusing that posters nearly always quote the "next big thing" about solar which really ignores reality and economics. How much will graphine panels cost for example when/if they ever get to mass production. How much to solar roof tiles cost?
I haven't seen glowing reports in the media so I wonder if they are successful in marketing terms.

Also what will solar panels do to insurance rates once insurance companies wake up to how vulnerable they are to hail. There is a street in Wamberal ( Windsor Road)where 80% of the panels remain broken after a storm a couple of months ago. The nearby Breakers club has scores of panels which I thought at first glance were OK , but the news is that many were damaged.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4BlEB9sYIU

Regards Philip A

[DiscoMick]

If hail was severe enough to break the strong glass on solar panels then that would be the least of their problems.

[scarry]

Knowing how insurance companies work,the will just take solar panels out of the policy.

Simple.

Or charge an exorbitant rate to have them in the policy,particularly on a commercial property.

I would also be concerned about them being ripped off roofs in storms and becoming missiles.

[Ferret]

Plenty of people get sunburnt in the snow, so UV is still happening.

You might get sunburnt but doesn't mean you can argue - "hey it might be cloudy but what about the all the UV that gets through the clouds to the solar panels, they will still work".

1) They are not particularly efficient at UV wavelengths.
2) Protective screens over the cell (glass) don't transmit UV well.
3) As a proportion of total energy in sunlight, the fraction UV & shorter wave length reaching the earth surface is <10% of the total.

You can probably engineer the effects of points 1 and 2 to mitigate the problem but you can't change the physics of point 3. Most energy reaching the earth's surface is IR and visible light. Sweet FA is UV.

The Solar Spectrum And Why “UV Solar Panels” Are A Con Job (https://www.solarquotes.com.au/blog/uv-solar-panels/)

[DiscoMick]

Never had any insurance company question our solar panels when arranging insurance on our properties.

[DiscoMick]

Your Guide to Solar Panel Insurance - hipages.com.au (https://hipages.com.au/article/your_guide_to_solar_panel_insurance)

[scarry]

Your Guide to Solar Panel Insurance - hipages.com.au (https://hipages.com.au/article/your_guide_to_solar_panel_insurance)

Interesting,but if an inverter is damaged by a storm,lightning strike,whatever,as an example,i can't see it being a warranty issue.

Warranty is normally for faulty parts or workmanship,not damage caused by an external source.

Five to 10year warranty on parts and labour seems a long time.

Also interesting they are rarely damaged by hail,the glass must be very strong.

[DiscoMick]

Yes, I would expect solar to be covered by the house insurance, since it is a fixed item, like roof tiles for example.

[DiscoMick]

Glass can be bullet proof.

Bulletproof glass - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulletproof_glass)

[NavyDiver]

"[Hydrogen powered electric cars] are coming online and will be available this year or next, that will be able to drive nearly 2,000 kilometres with a full payload. "

Interesting

Maybe a combo of hydro + bat electric cars are next best option up from a horse for a low emissions 4x4 remote tourer that also spends time in town. [emoji6]

Hopefully LR's MLA is flexible enough to adapt as needed.

The interesting bit about hydrogen is we can make it ourselves already "Electrolyzers use electricity to split water into hydrogen and oxygen" Not yet really in the price range to do it 'yet' Hydrogen Production - Electrolyzers (https://www.fuelcellstore.com/hydrogen-equipment/hydrogen-production-electrolyzers)
A solar panel on a Disco could already produce some hydrogen while driving or stopped.

The same set up with a Fuel Cells for home power generation will be fantastic. The comment about 42 days cloud cover especially were there is no grid or frequent grid failures could with storage of hydrogen as ammonia (CSIRO tech) give much better results than all current battery technology even with 42 days cloud cover. My bet is we will have them inside 5 years as other smarter countries governments have been planning for them for several years now.

[mark2]

Solar still works on overcast days. Just check the UV index on a rainy day, it can still be high. I have monitored our solar on overcast days and it's still working. So is the solar hot water. Don't forget the ideal temperature for solar is in the 20-25 degree range.

Its not so much the UV as the amount of light. Cloudy day outputs are typically 10-25% of sunny day output, depending on thickness on cloud cover. So you could say they're working, but nowhere near as effectively.

[DiscoMick]

Just means they take longer to charge or for water to heat.

[NavyDiver]

Just means they take longer to charge or for water to heat.

Its a volume or consumption issue Mick. Longer doesn't work if the fridge and freezer get hot waiting[biggrin]

I love solar. Saves me a packet each and every power bill it get at work and at home. Typically 30-50kWh daily in summer with longer sunlight and 10-30 kWh in winter. Both my systems are 5.2kWh set ups.

If/when the home hydrogen generation is available and affordable and storage is as well; I will be using every spare kWh of Solar to make my own hydrogen and store it to use in a fuel cell generator for when the sun is not shining or not shining enough for my own self consumption. I have back up batteries for a UPS at work. They last 10 years. I expect hydrogen will be my next UPS.

When, not if, fuel cell cars are rolled out on mass in other countries I will probably be happy to go and grab one from Korea and ship it back myself assuming Australia is 10 years behind as usual[thumbsupbig] If the components suitable and feasible, my Disco might be a guinea pig.

[goingbush]

What about making H2 from NH3 onboard , not difficult apparently.



https://youtu.be/L0hBAz6MxC4


https://youtu.be/_H4XZ_m7P0E

[NavyDiver]

New tech, amazing the pace of change with H.

A new material developed, by scientists could give a significant boost to a new generation of hydrogen-powered cars.
(https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-52328786)
Like a bath sponge, the product is able to hold and release large quantities of the gas at lower pressure and cost. (https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-52328786)
Made up of billions of tiny pores, a single gram of the new aluminium-based material has a surface area the size of a football pitch. (https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-52328786)

A toyato H truck and so much more
Why is Toyota Building a Hydrogen Truck - FuelCellsWorks (https://fuelcellsworks.com/news/why-is-toyota-building-a-hydrogen-truck/)

The truck is more city style in Oz as only 600km range but noting the first storage item which can overcome cost and issues with high presure storage limitation may make this normal range suitable for any where reasonably soon.

Loving these changes. My H Disco might arrive before I die[thumbsupbig]

[workingonit]

What about making H2 from NH3 onboard , not difficult apparently.

Ammonia to hydrogen was subject of some recent tv article concluding Australia would be a huge energy exporter if it took off...large use of solar panels and water resource...ammonia lends itself to bulk transport...sorry can't remember the program.

[Dorian]

One of the first references I read about ammonia storing Hydrogen.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018/07/ammonia-renewable-fuel-made-sun-air-and-water-could-power-globe-without-carbo (https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018/07/ammonia-renewable-fuel-made-sun-air-and-water-could-power-globe-without-carbon)n

Cheers.

[DiscoMick]

We could have a clean energy advantage for manufacturing steel using hydrogen, study finds.

Green steel industry could secure jobs future for Australia's coalmining heartland

Green steel industry could secure jobs future for Australia's coalmining heartland | Business | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/may/11/green-steel-industry-could-secure-jobs-future-for-australias-coalmining-heartland?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard)

[NavyDiver]

100 hydrogen buses about to roll at ten sites in Oz.

Timing is great for Perth as a hydrogen from poo plant there will be online soon. (Hazer water treatment hydrogen/graphite plant)

161429

GLOBAL HYDROGEN FUEL-CELL PROJECT LAUNCHED: 100 BUSES, PHASE 1 (https://www.busnews.com.au/industry-news/2005/global-hydrogen-fuel-cell-project-launched-100-buses-phase-1)

[NavyDiver]

Who wants one of these babies[biggrin]
Battery or soon to be hydrogen with "PHOENIX, AZ (October 8, 2019) -- The National Center for Manufacturing Sciences (NCMS) has awarded a team from Nikola Powersports and Pratt & Miller Engineering a project to integrate a hydrogen fuel cell into the Nikola Reckless electric vehicle in order to test and validate performance and efficiency, via U.S. Department of Defense (DoD)’s Commercial Technologies for Maintenance Activities (CTMA) cooperative agreement. Nikola will receive $1 million, of the $4.35 million project, and work directly with the project partners to allocate the remaining funds. The research project begins immediately and will last for 32 weeks. "For the first time this allows Nikola, in collaboration with Pratt & Miller Engineering, the opportunity to integrate hydrogen fuel cell technology in an electric off-road vehicle,” said Andrew Christian, Nikola’s vice president of defense, Nikola Powersports. “This is truly a groundbreaking effort in our quest to have a zero-emission future.""

Honestly I like walking for my hunting and my disco carries the meat home a lot better[thumbsupbig]

https://nikolamotor.com/assets/powersports/reckless/carousel/nikola_reckless1-7397658734171a41969651af384794026990d77061c0454f05 d59e02e2916e17.jpg

Nikola Corp (https://nikolamotor.com/)

[PhilipA]

100 hydrogen buses about to roll at ten sites in Oz.

Timing is great for Perth as a hydrogen from poo plant there will be online soon. (Hazer water treatment hydrogen/graphite plant)

Do you know Perth had a Hydrogen bus trial about 30-40 years ago.

The trial failed as the hydrogen had to be 100% or near pure back then and industrial hydrogen was only something like 94% pure.

I was told this by the Asia Pacific CEO of BOC who oversaw the trial and stated that it was the greatest failure of his career..

Hopefully they have ironed out the problems by now.

Looking at the buses they appear to have the tank on the roof , and be IC engines ( by the look of the grill on the rear) , the same as the old Perth trial.

Good idea but there is nothing new under the sun.
Regards PhilipA

[NavyDiver]

Do you know Perth had a Hydrogen bus trial about 30-40 years ago.

The trial failed as the hydrogen had to be 100% or near pure back then and industrial hydrogen was only something like 94% pure.

I was told this by the Asia Pacific CEO of BOC who oversaw the trial and stated that it was the greatest failure of his career..

Hopefully they have ironed out the problems by now.

Looking at the buses they appear to have the tank on the roof , and be IC engines ( by the look of the grill on the rear) , the same as the old Perth trial.

Good idea but there is nothing new under the sun.
Regards PhilipA
New under the sun today has my head spinning today Philip. HZR will do that for Perth soon

Ships- Mursk and others (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/26/danish-firms-teaming-up-to-produce-sustainable-fuels.html)

Hydro Hydrogen- Swiss (https://www.h2-view.com/story/hydrospider-delivers-first-container-of-green-hydrogen/)

And Nel which is related to my post. (https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/nel-asa-receives-purchase-order-from-nikola-301070273.html)All except Nel/Nikola are fully green hydrogen or in Perth's case, green than green as it uses a green house gas and makes it clean. [thumbsupbig] Perth poo never smelled so sweet [biggrin]

I fully appreciate the disappointment in hydrogen from a clean green prospective until now. I wonder if you could ask for friends view of the changes now? BOC makes 10-12 tonnes of C02 for every tonne of hydrogen it makes and sells now. They (Linde group) are clearly one of the most needing the changes occurring to protect there huge world wide business. BASF and several others in the race as well

[NavyDiver]

I am now wondering COULD I [biggrin]

Nikola eclipses Ford and targets Australia as first market for Badger hydrogen ute | The Driven (https://thedriven.io/2020/06/10/nikola-eclipses-ford-and-targets-australia-as-first-market-for-badger-hydrogen-ute/amp/?__twitter_impression=true)


Australia is to be one of the first markets for the hydrogen-powered Nikola Badger ute, with reservations to open on June 29, the company tweeted on Tuesday.
The news about the hotly anticipated electric utility truck (known as a ute in Australia and pickup in the US) followed closely on the heels of the company’s listing on the Nasdaq after a reverse merger with VectoIQ Acquisition Corp, and a surge in its market value to surpass that of legacy car makers Ford and FCA.
That achievement was loudly trumpeted on Twitter by Nikola founder and executive chair Trevor Milton and indicates the huge interest in Nikola, which seeks to disrupt the trucking industry with three hydrogen-fuelled trucks alongside the Badger electric ute.
In-day trading saw the company’s market cap eclipse $US30 billion ($A43.03 billion) on June 9, closing the day at a still healthy $US28.63 billion ($A41.06 billion), compared to Ford’s $US28.8 billion ($A41.31 billion) at market close the same day.


Noting the share price pulled back a little not really allowing a Badger in my garage or will it [biggrin]

[DiscoMick]

Fascinating that a start-up like this is now worth more than Ford. Tesla has aleady led the way in disrupting the established order, of course.
The world sure is changing and those who fail to adapt are just going to die out.
Look at GM which used to be the biggest and is now in full scale retreat back to its north-American base.

[PhilipA]

Fascinating that a start-up like this is now worth more than Ford.

Particularly since they have not made 1 dollar of turnover let alone profit.

Regards PhilipA

[DiscoMick]

This is interesting.

Hydrogen-powered cars to be manufactured in NSW
Australian company H2X to manufacture hydrogen vehicles in NSW - ABC News (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-15/hydrogen-car-manufacturer-in-illawarra/12355138)

[NavyDiver]

This is even more interesting I feel. All the specs make my D3 look shabby and I love my D3


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pHpUETheHM

It is getting my attention over making the D3 into a hydrogen battery beast now I think. The share price of the company from when I brought it almost pays for it [thumbsupbig][thumbsupbig][thumbsupbig]

I liked several parts of the Tesla truck except that I wonder about those big trips off the track. 10kg of hydrogen in a spare tank in the back (or two) and your across the Simpson desert just possibly with out using the spare tanks[biggrin] simpson desert crossing distance is 715 kilometres

Appreciate we need a H2 distribution network first of course. and the badgers build and for them to be .........[bighmmm] Dreaming perhaps Hoping as well

[NavyDiver]

All talk perhaps[thumbsupbig]

The Hyperion XP-1 hypercar wants to give hydrogen a halo effect The specs claim more than 1,000 miles of range and a top speed of 221mph.The Hyperion XP-1 hypercar wants to give hydrogen a halo effect | Ars Technica (https://arstechnica.com/cars/2020/08/meet-the-hyperion-xp-1-a-hydogen-powered-hypercar-to-educate-the-world/)

[NavyDiver]

A hydrogen Disco one step away


Jaguar Land Rover project aims for hydrogen SUVs by 2030

Project Zeus could see a hydrogen-fuelled Range Rover make production later this decade[biggrin]





Jaguar Land Rover (JLR) is embarking on a serious hydrogen power research project with the aim of developing fuel cell-powered versions of its larger vehicles.
Should the research effort – which is known as Project Zeus – prove successful, the fuel cell technology would most likely be ready for production use around the time of the next-generation Range Rover Evoque’s arrival in the middle of the 2020s and then be used for zero-emissions versions of larger models in the future.

Jaguar Land Rover project aims for hydrogen SUVs by 2030 | Autocar (https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/jaguar-land-rover-project-aims-hydrogen-suvs-2030)