Port Arthur 10 years on

[noddy]

Howdy All

I cannot believe it is 10 years ago that the tragic events occurred at Port Arthur, seems like only yesterday. I suppose it is one of the events which like, Sept 11 and the Kennedy assassination (I was too young), you will always remember where you were when they occurred.

We were fortunate enough to be in Tassie earlier in the year and visited Port Arthur -- definitely leaves you with a tingle...

Our thoughts are with the family and friends of the 35 people killed their ten years ago.


Broad Arrow Cafe 2006

http://www.aulro.com/albums/album214/FramedViewfromBlackbirdCafe.sized.jpg

[incisor]

would love to know what REALLY happened at that point in time...

i do feel immensely sorry for the victims and families but too many things simply dont add up from my point of view.

[Phoenix]

The question is, which comspiracy theory to believe.

I agree it doesn't add up completely, but those who think that bryant didn't kill people that day at all are delusional.

It was a very sad place before that day 10 years ago, not that is has a few more ghosts it's even more so. I went on the ghost tour before the massicre, I don't think that I could today.

It's something that you really can't explain untill you've been there yourself.

[noddy]

Inc -- some of the sites dedicated to the various conspiracy theories go along way to discrediting the broader debate in relation to gun control.

I am with Phoenix, Bryant was no 'patsy' and to think the 'government' was somehow involved is really unrealisitc.

Phoenix -- we went on the Ghost Tour earlier in the year and it was interesting. Extremely well done.

Something is just not right about that mental asylum next to the soliatry confinement prison :twisted: 8O

[Phoenix]

Something is not right about a lot of places there. I once bought a little book on ghost stories there, and some are pretty chilling.

On an interesting note, the front of my parents house is exactly the same as the hotell at port authur, kinda spooky by itself 8O

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Originally posted by Noddy


Something is just not right about that mental asylum next to the soliatry confinement prison :twisted: 8O


we went through in '97,,,
glad to see that feeling has hung around--- 8O .

while we didnt go on the ghost tour,, we did take the ferry ride around the bay,,

THAT island was scarey from 100yards away... 8O

[Captain_Rightfoot]

We actually visited Port Authur only 6 weeks before hand. It was a really strange feeling seeing all that had happened where we had been only a few weeks before. 8O :cry: :cry:

[PCH]

Like Captain Rightfoot I was there a week earlier when I was on my Honeymoon with the missus.

Very sobering thought that we could have been there at this fateful time.

Chris

[incisor]

Originally posted by Noddy
Inc -- some of the sites dedicated to the various conspiracy theories go along way to discrediting the broader debate in relation to gun control.

I am with Phoenix, Bryant was no 'patsy' and to think the 'government' was somehow involved is really unrealisitc.
oh i agree bryant was involved, but a delusional man on a rampage using the weapons he used, aint doing to bad when he can exceed by big numbers what trained specialists testified and demonstrated they could not accomplish using the same weapons ...some of the 4 corners background info is extremely chilling...and still remains unanswered... no conspiracy, plain documented facts...

[disconut]

Originally posted by incisor

oh i agree bryant was involved, but a delusional man on a rampage using the weapons he used, aint doing to bad when he can exceed by big numbers what trained specialists testified and demonstrated they could not accomplish using the same weapons ...some of the 4 corners background info is extremely chilling...and still remains unanswered... no conspiracy, plain documented facts...

I did not see the program, but reading between the lines here, was there another trigger out there?

For mine, why did the police not shoot him! others have been shot for less. (ie failing to put down a knife at 3 or 4 metres distance from an officer).

Gun control? Just the event to galvanise public opinion!

Too many questions, not enough answers.

Trev.

[Yabbie]

I just find it to much of a coincidence that this happened around the same time that the government decided that we didn't need semi automatic rifles.

We all winge about how we are all targeted as 4wd owners, I wonder if someone used a 4wd to commit similar carnage would the knee jerk reaction be to remove 4wd's.

Today's society seems hell bent on removing the items that people use to commit an offence rather then the person that committed the offence.

In the same way that gun's don't kill people, 4wd's don't either. It's is the person who is in control of the bloody thing that commits the offence.
But the revolving door judicial system that is in place seems to punish the honest more then it does the criminals.

Although I feel for those victims of the Port Arthur Incident, There have been other Firearm related deaths of a similar scale that have not seen the same repercussions i.e. Father's Day Massacre at Milperra in Sydney September 1984.

For my money there is more to this then meets the eye, just in the same way that there is more to the to the wheat board payoffs then we as the public will ever be permitted to know about.

Conspiracy ?? No just a realist. What government in any country has ever been totally honest with it's people. Absolute power corrupts Absolutely!!!

[WADE]

And a big thanks to the Vic Police for suppling the weapon used. The weapon was handed in when Victoria ban semi auto and the Vic Police sold it to a Tassie gun dealer who Bryant brought it. So much for gun control !!

[Phoenix]

The gun control laws came about because of Port Authur, not before (although there are always people puching for no guns in the community).

[noddy]

Originally posted by Phoenix
The gun control laws came about because of Port Authur, not before (although there are always people puching for no guns in the community).

Phoenix -- 'national' gun control laws certainly came into place as a result of Port Arthur, but from memory some of the States had already started moving on banning fully auto and semi-autos.

After the Strathfield massacre in Sydney (early '90s), there was a concerted push on the ban of fully automatic assault rifles. I think Vic had something similar.

[VladTepes]

3 things:

1) I have deep sympathy for all whose lives were devastated as a result of that day.

2) It's a damn shame that the government continues to demonize and 'punish' law abiding gun owners for the sins of a (very) few.

3) Great photos Noddy as always. When can we expect the coffee table book ?

[Ace]

My sympathies go out for the families involved.

As for what happened, i agree there is no way he could have pulled off something like that when trained professionals couldnt have. Will we ever know what actually happened. I doubt it. That just gives the conspiracy theorists more to speculate on. Matt

[VladTepes]

How could trained progessionals NOT do that. An armed man with no conscience about killing children etc versus an unarmed civilian crowd. To be truthful we are fortunate he didn't kill more.

AND a trained professioanl with a bolt action is almost as fast as you or me with a semi auto

AND as with all 'conspiracy theories' when carefully examined the imaginings of the conspiracists just don;t add up.


Think about it - how could the "government" keep a secret like that when they can;t even keep the AWB thing under their hat :!:

[Yabbie]

Originally posted by VladTepes
How could trained progessionals NOT do that. An armed man with no conscience about killing children etc versus an unarmed civilian crowd. To be truthful we are fortunate he didn't kill more.

AND a trained professioanl with a bolt action is almost as fast as you or me with a semi auto

AND as with all 'conspiracy theories' when carefully examined the imaginings of the conspiracists just don;t add up.


Think about it - how could the "government" keep a secret like that when they can;t even keep the AWB thing under their hat :!:

I guess your bosses don't like it when you think outside the square do they Vlad :twisted:

The thing is history has shown that when someone walks into a crowded room full of people and starts shooting, people run, push and shove who ever and do whatever to escape. While this is happening you'll no longer have a static targets and unless you have been trained to kill on mass your hit to kill ratio will be lower then those trained.

Without being present during the event those who speculate the recorded events as per the governments version will continue too. It's my informed opinion that there's more then what's on the table.

But to believe what any government says in order to take away your given rights as a human (freedom of choice). Is not only bloody stupid but friggin dangerous.

[tony]

This might upset a few people but hey we live in a democracy (HA HA )

The sheeple are still coming out I was a trained proffesional and beliee me I was a lot faster with a L1A1 than I was with a parker Hale,

I have no idea whether or not there was a conspirary, but he must have been very very good to kill so many (and several of those with double taps)

The only thing I can be certain off is that the Grubbeyment used the situation to ther fullest advantage, to restrict, and deny, the right of law abiding people,

years before this the Howard grubbement signd a document in the UN to disarm the civil populance without any disscusion at all ............

ANYONE WHO BELIEVES THE GRUBBEYMENT WITHOUT QUESTION SHOULD'NT DRIVE A SOLIHULL PRODUCT

Tony.

[Jamo]

I agree with Vlad.

Sure, people would have panicked, but he killed a lot in the cafe and that is a contained enviroment. It does not take much training to be able shoot people who only have a narrow excape route. That is why concertina wire is used for defences in order to channel enemy into a confined route.

Also be aware that a 'trained professional', when being shot at, will attempt to asses the best escape route whilst avoiding being shot. A tourist having a cuppa probably won't and may even run into the line of fire. I think that by saying that he must have been a professional, then you are assuming that those he killed were also professionals and should have known how to get out of the way!

A didn't he have an armalite when he went into the cafe?? Even if he had a bolt action at that point, if he was standing between the patrons and the door, he could have picked off as many as he wanted.

Don't forget that a mass killer like Bryant is not like a normal person. He would not have any form of conscience telling him to resist. His entire purpose was to kill.

From what I understand his interest in weapons did not start a few minutes prior to the shootings.

This is Australia not Hollywood. I think that anyone who thinks that this is a conspiracy is a complete looney and up there with the folks who think Sept 11 and the moon landings were hoaxes.

[abaddonxi]

I can't say I know a lot about Port Arthur, or Martin Bryant. I visited at Port Arthur a few years ago. I'm not a shooter, and don't own a gun.

So, I'm starting from a point of knowing stick about stick.

When this thread started I read these two sites.
http://home.overflow.net.au/~nedwood/JoeVialls.html
http://www.shootersnews.addr.com/snportarthur.html

The problem I have with this stuff is that the people who've made these sites are choosing only to question what they want to.

Everybody is terribly keen to quote the number of shots fired to the number of people killed to the quality of his aim. They take this as gospel truth.

Why?

If the government or someone conspired, why didn't they lie about all of this stuff.

If we are going to question the representation of events we need to question all of it. How do we know that he fired 29 bullets in the cafe - or whatever the number was - how do we know that the victims were killed with head shots, and so on. After all, if you can lie about one bit of it, lying about another bit of it isn't that hard.

And when you think about it, tampering with a crime scene and forensic reports wouldn't be that difficult in the scheme of a cover up on this scale.

There are other examples I could use, the Joe Vialls was full him choosing to accept some 'facts' and rejecting others.

My 2c.

Cheers
Simon https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

[agrojnr]

It was a great shame as I think of Tassie as my second home

Get yourself the book about port arther 10 years on its a fantastic read ( so the wife has told me )

Adam :wink:

[tombraider]

Originally posted by Jamo
I think that anyone who thinks that this is a conspiracy is a complete looney and up there with the folks who think Sept 11 and the moon landings were hoaxes.

Pt Arthur, no conspiracy there. What happened, DID happen.. No doubt about it.

September 11 - Also happened, thats blatantly clear...

Moon Landings.... Hmmmmm :wink:

Now theres an interesting debate. One which is technically arguable from both sides. But heres some food for thought.

1. The radiation near the moon would require shielding approx 6+" thick.
The lunar modules had 3 thin sheets of "aluminium" basically.
How come they didnt get dangerously ill?

2. Light in space comes from 1 main point.. "Sol" so how is it the photographs taken on the moon exhibit multiple light sources 'ala studio'

3. How come NASA cant build a ship capable of going to the moon now?
They falter on that issue quite regularly.

But my favourite.....

WHO CARES :!: Really?

Cheers
Mike

[abaddonxi]

Originally posted by tombraider+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tombraider)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Jamo
I think that anyone who thinks that this is a conspiracy is a complete looney and up there with the folks who think Sept 11 and the moon landings were hoaxes.

Pt Arthur, no conspiracy there. What happened, DID happen.. No doubt about it.

September 11 - Also happened, thats blatantly clear...

Moon Landings.... Hmmmmm :wink:

Now theres an interesting debate. One which is technically arguable from both sides. But heres some food for thought.

1. The radiation near the moon would require shielding approx 6+" thick.
The lunar modules had 3 thin sheets of "aluminium" basically.
How come they didnt get dangerously ill?[/b][/quote]

6" of what?

I think the foil was made of gold, not aluminum. I think also that if you plan the mission correctly you use the shadow of the earth to block out a significant part of the solar radiation for the trip out and back. Then your exposure to radiation is limited. The worst exposure would be when out on the moon, and that wasn't for very long.

We walk around all day protected from solar radiation with only an atmosphere, a t-shirt and some sunscreen. So maybe they just used a whole lot of 30+. https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>2. Light in space comes from 1 main point.. "Sol" so how is it the photographs taken on the moon exhibit multiple light sources 'ala studio'[/b][/quote]

Spotties.

Or, the moon has no atmosphere, or very little, to stop stuff hitting it, the earth is about six times larger than the moon. Just imagine what it's like when you've got a full earth up in the sky. https://www.aulro.com/afvb/


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>3. How come NASA cant build a ship capable of going to the moon now?
They falter on that issue quite regularly.

But my favourite.....

WHO CARES :!: Really?

Cheers
Mike[/b][/quote]

And I think the last two cancel each other out.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

Cheers
Simon

[noddy]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>years before this the Howard grubbement signd a document in the UN to disarm the civil populance without any disscusion at all ............ [/b][/quote]

The Howard Government was only elected to office in March 1996 :?:

[noddy]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Moon Landings.... Hmmmmm
[/b][/quote]

This one should dispel any concerns in relation to the moon landing, especially from a photgraphic perspective.

http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/moonhoax.htm

[tombraider]

Interesting reading.....

Considering optical technology available now, they should be able to confirm this one day anyway....

Its all a good conspiracy theory anyhow, and people love a good conspiracy!

Me, my life goes on regardless, closest to the moon I get... Aeroplane!

Cheers
Mike

[Jamo]

The biggest indicator to whether the moon landings were real or not (and they were) is the Russians.

If they could have proven that they were a hoax, then they would have immediately. The cold war as at it's peak and they would have given anything to prove the yanks had lied. They didn't! They accepted the moon landings were real.

The light problem is easy. The lunar surface is very reflective (which is why the moon is very bright in the sky). It is also has a peculiar charateristic of being able to reflect light back in the direction from which it came. Hence mutliple light 'sources' and multiple shadows.

As for radiation, a lot of space radiation consists of alpha particles which can be stopped by normal window glass. Also, NASA timed the landing to minimise the risk of a solar flare. This was a risk that paid off. If a flare had erupted, then the Astronauts would have been fried!

Now, if you want a more detailed astrophysics lesson, I can give it, but I have to go.

I think Elvis is at the front door! :wink:

[tombraider]

Originally posted by Jamo
I think Elvis is at the front door! :wink:

As long as it isnt Dennis Rodman https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

Cheers
Mike

[Disco300Tdi]

Originally posted by tombraider

As long as it isnt Dennis Rodman https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

Cheers
Mike

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ https://www.aulro.com/afvb/
Wasn't it Buz who whacked him?

[George130]

Might not be relevant to port arthur but don't forget that the school shooting in the us usually have a high kill rate. Its to do with the state of mind and the kids going into arcade mode and just shooting anything that moves.

[VladTepes]

And on a tangent to 84RR -

while the following may be true:


Cervantes said, "To do is to be."
DesCartes said, "To be is to do."
Sinatra said, "Dooby Dooby Doo."

I have seen recorded evidence that

Shaggy said "Scooby dooby doo". https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

[Disco300Tdi]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ https://www.aulro.com/afvb/