Model Steam engine build

[gromit]

My Father-in-Law isn't well and can't use his workshop any more.
He's told me to take whatever I want and sell off anything not needed.

He ordered a fully machined Stuart Turner Victoria Twin steam engine Kit. He painted most of the parts, went traveling in his motorhome but came back early because he was out of breath and found he had fibrosis of the lungs. He's now on oxygen but can't move far without his oxygen levels dropping.
Anyway, he said "unfortunately I won't get to see the Victoria Twin working....." so, you guessed it, I've set myself the task of building it so he does get to see it before he goes !

He spent an eye watering amount on the kit so I need to do a good job of finishing it.
Stuart Twin Victoria (https://www.stuartmodels.com/item/37/stuart-twin-victoria)

Some parts have surface rust so I need to clean & polish all the bare steel parts then find his taps and clean out all the threaded holes, make a plinth and start assembling......sounds easy doesn't it.

Last night was spent painting the flywheel which was about the only part he hadn't done. I soon realised why when I started painting round the double spokes with a small brush.

The Victoria twin has been around for some years, several on YouTube.
The governor on this one is an addition YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sl7w1iun7UM) but I found several governors he'd purchased so maybe I can add this later.

This one is a work of art with lots of additions YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbSqpkGfbSA)

There were also a number of other steam engines and a boiler setup plus he'd built a winding engine and was building a diorama of a gold mine. No plans for the winding engine he made it up as he went along ! The gear ratios weren't correct so new gears have been cut but it won't get modified now.
Not sure yet what to do with the winding engine & gold mine.

Lots more stuff to sort through, I can post pictures if anyone is interested in the build.


Colin

[Homestar]

If you need some inspiration, check out Keith Appleton on Youtube. He has hundreds of videos on building, restoring, setting up and timing model steam engines.

He has a whole series on building a Victoria - you just have to do everything twice...


https://youtu.be/jlJTLbMi4zs

Unfortunately the rest of this series is on his Patreon feed, but for $1 you could watch them if they are of any use. I used to be a Patron of his, but I share my money around a bit, so haven’t been for a while.

[gromit]

If you need some inspiration, check out Keith Appleton on Youtube. He has hundreds of videos on building, restoring, setting up and timing model steam engines.

He has a whole series on building a Victoria - you just have to do everything twice...



Unfortunately the rest of this series is on his Patreon feed, but for $1 you could watch them if they are of any use.

Thanks Gavin,

The Stuart Turner instructions are a bit sketchy but I should be able to work it out. Mind you the video you posted has made me think about checking the steam ports in the cylinders for casting sand !
As all the machining is already done it's really just a case of polish, paint and assemble....oh and get the timing correct.

Rather than needing inspiration I really just need time to do the assembly.


Colin

[Homestar]

Time is everything isn’t it. Hope you find some!

As for engine timing, He has quite a few videos on this amongst his other stuff.

[Bigbjorn]

One of my good customers, now deceased, was widowed in 1980 and decided to retire when he was offered a redundancy package from the ATO where he had worked all his life. Trev decided he needed a hobby and for reasons unknown to me decided to take up model making. He started with a small single cylinder steam engine of the type one sees in hobby shops. He had never had any involvement with metal trades but was a good learner. He progressed to bigger and better models driving me mad in the process with 'phone calls "how do I do this", "how do I set this up". By steps over a number of years he worked his way up to a three cylinder triple expansion big enough to power a 24' launch. Then he built the launch! He built a model WW1 rotary engine as used in aircraft which ran nicely and sprayed castor oil like a full size one. Next was an Indianapolis Offenhauser made from drawings not a kit. Ran well too. Age and illness caught up with him and his model RR Merlin was never finished. This was a semi-finished kit. The biggest challenge with this was making the jigs and fixtures.

R.I.P Trevor Jones 1924 to 2015

[gromit]

Flywheel painted, sourced some timber for a stand and then found a couple of parts missing....bugger.

The model has been in the shed for over a year with some parts painted some still shrink wrapped. Searched high & low and nothing.

Sent an email to Stuart Models in the UK explaining the situation, just had a reply.....they are sending the parts out FOC ! Fantastic customer service.

Once the parts arrive I can get cracking.


Colin

[p38arover]

More pics, please!

I bought a set of Stuart Turner 10V castings about 30 years ago when I was a member of the Sydney Society of Model Engineers. I did a little work on them before moving to Norfolk Island in 1990 but have never got back into them after returning to Oz.

I should sell them, I will never finish the engine.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_UY42LWBEY

[loanrangie]

As a kid i always a model steam engine, still love them and the larger varieties. Pics please.

[gromit]

Started building last night, I'll try & remember to take some pics.

I'm making a hardwood base (I'm a member of the local woodwork club) but last night was fiddling with 7BA screws to assemble the cylinders.

I purchased a 10V kit many, many years ago when I lived in the UK. Never got round to doing anything with it so gifted it to my father-in-law and he built it (it may have been me who got him onto model engineering....).
Clearing his garage I found a boiler, several MS (Minature Steam) engines which are like the 10V, other small engines, a boiler feed pump, several governors, valves, gauges the list goes on......


Colin

[cuppabillytea]

My brother Peter is a double barrel chief engineer.(Steam and Diesel). I could forward any questions about timing and efficiency on to him if you like.

[gromit]

My brother Peter is a double barrel chief engineer.(Steam and Diesel). I could forward any questions about timing and efficiency on to him if you like.

Thanks.
Timing doesn't appear to be difficult. Once finished I could get the father-in-law to help set it up ( he's done a few now....).
He's on oxygen full time ( fibrosis of the lungs) and can't exert himself much without his oxygen levels dropping.
Something like setting the timing he could cope with and, more importantly, enjoy doing.

Colin

[gromit]

Did some more assembly tonight.

First picture is a trial run to position the two bases so I can work out the spacing of the plinths. I'm using hardwood for the plinths & base but staining black, the base is only a way of presenting the engine so I don't want some outstanding grain in the timber being the focus of attention.
I've seen a couple of Victoria Twins where they've created a tiled finish for the mounting, just as it would have been in a full size setting. I'd love to have the time & dedication to do this......
Tomorrow night I'll trim the base to size, fix the plinths and finish stain. Then it needs a few coats of varnish to stop oil soaking in.

Problem 1- I need to find a better set of BA spanners, currently using a magneto spanner set ! I have a Britool 2BA spanner I use on the Series Land Rovers but I'm now working with 7BA & 5BA.

Problem 2- I need to get some tweezers. Sorting out countersunk 7BA screws 1/4" long taxes my patience......
I also need to learn to work OVER the bench so when a 7BA nut is dropped it doesn't fall to the floor !!! Luckily I've found the couple I've dropped so far.

Problem 3- I have to source some small bore copper pipe and a T-connector. Flanges are tapped 1/4" x 32 so 1/4" pipe should do with the thread directly cut on the end. I'll have to sort through the small ball valves I collected as I don't think I've seen a 1/4" one, mind you I'm thinking of machining up a brass block for the air supply so I could thread into that and put the ball valve on the inlet.
There are also a few displacement lubricators so I should fit one of them to the inlet line.

Second picture I've partly assembled the crosshead guide bars. I have to disassemble because I haven't installed any gland packing yet.
Quite a few of the steel parts I've had to attack with emery then polish with a buffing wheel on a Dremel. Machining marks would spoil the finished engine. Some of the brass parts were leveled on emery and polished as well.
Some parts seem fairly stiff but talking to the father-in-law this is fairly normal and you need to loosen everything off and run it in for some time on compressed air to get it to free off.

While doing this tonight I had on in the background a Fred Dibnah video, an English 'National Treasure'.
He was a steeplejack and in maybe the 70's a film was made of him at work, this became a series then you found that he was restoring a steam engine and had a steam powered workshop. He dropped industrial chimneys the old way, no explosives.
Over the years there were many TV programs.
Bit of a character and a self taught engineer. When he found he hadn't got long left he did a trip round the UK in his restored traction engine visiting all the places where parts of his engine had been made. I remember one of his comments "it's taken me 25 years and 3 marriages to restore this engine....".
He received an OBE and turned up at Buckingham Palace in the steam engine when he collected it (he had to wash & change first). Can you imagine a traction engine in London traffic !
Anyway, enough about Fred, I'm sure there's lots on YouTube etc. if you're interested.


Colin

[gromit]

At the weekend I had fun trying to find an Allen key for a 7BA grub screw, eventually got one so I could finish the valve gear.

Managed to get some 1/4" copper T-connectors today so almost finished the pipework tonight.

I just need a block of brass to mount the globe valve in and provide an airline connection, some soldering & pipe polishing and it's ready for a trial run.


Colin

[Pickles2]

Wow, Gromit, you have made GREAT progress in very little time, it looks really good.
I always have an affinity with Steam having grown up with it in the U.K.
When I was young I think I had a little (was it a Mamod?) engine.
Pickles.

[OneOff]

That is beautiful!

I always wanted to build a Stuart engine, but don't have that sort of disposable cash I'm afraid. I hope you post some video when it's done.

I have a broken Mamod traction engine in my shed and I'll get around to fixing that up one day. (Retirement project?)

Waiting to see where the tie rod ends fit [bigsmile1]


Peter.

[Bigbjorn]

Did some more assembly tonight.

First picture is a trial run to position the two bases so I can work out the spacing of the plinths. I'm using hardwood for the plinths & base but staining black, the base is only a way of presenting the engine so I don't want some outstanding grain in the timber being the focus of attention.
I've seen a couple of Victoria Twins where they've created a tiled finish for the mounting, just as it would have been in a full size setting. I'd love to have the time & dedication to do this......
Tomorrow night I'll trim the base to size, fix the plinths and finish stain. Then it needs a few coats of varnish to stop oil soaking in.

Problem 1- I need to find a better set of BA spanners, currently using a magneto spanner set ! I have a Britool 2BA spanner I use on the Series Land Rovers but I'm now working with 7BA & 5BA.

Problem 2- I need to get some tweezers. Sorting out countersunk 7BA screws 1/4" long taxes my patience......
I also need to learn to work OVER the bench so when a 7BA nut is dropped it doesn't fall to the floor !!! Luckily I've found the couple I've dropped so far.

Problem 3- I have to source some small bore copper pipe and a T-connector. Flanges are tapped 1/4" x 32 so 1/4" pipe should do with the thread directly cut on the end. I'll have to sort through the small ball valves I collected as I don't think I've seen a 1/4" one, mind you I'm thinking of machining up a brass block for the air supply so I could thread into that and put the ball valve on the inlet.
There are also a few displacement lubricators so I should fit one of them to the inlet line.

Second picture I've partly assembled the crosshead guide bars. I have to disassemble because I haven't installed any gland packing yet.
Quite a few of the steel parts I've had to attack with emery then polish with a buffing wheel on a Dremel. Machining marks would spoil the finished engine. Some of the brass parts were leveled on emery and polished as well.
Some parts seem fairly stiff but talking to the father-in-law this is fairly normal and you need to loosen everything off and run it in for some time on compressed air to get it to free off.

While doing this tonight I had on in the background a Fred Dibnah video, an English 'National Treasure'.
He was a steeplejack and in maybe the 70's a film was made of him at work, this became a series then you found that he was restoring a steam engine and had a steam powered workshop. He dropped industrial chimneys the old way, no explosives.
Over the years there were many TV programs.
Bit of a character and a self taught engineer. When he found he hadn't got long left he did a trip round the UK in his restored traction engine visiting all the places where parts of his engine had been made. I remember one of his comments "it's taken me 25 years and 3 marriages to restore this engine....".
He received an OBE and turned up at Buckingham Palace in the steam engine when he collected it (he had to wash & change first). Can you imagine a traction engine in London traffic !
Anyway, enough about Fred, I'm sure there's lots on YouTube etc. if you're interested.


Colin

1/4" x 32 is UNEF. No trouble sourcing taps, dies, fasteners for this. Much BA tooling is still available but expensive. The smaller they get the dearer they become. Suttons catalogue still shows BA taps and dies but I think any stock would be old and none made for years due to almost total lack of demand. Bruce Gardner of B.S.F. Bolts in Melbourne has BA taps, dies, fasteners. I never stocked them. Not enough demand to make stocking worthwhile. I left it all to Bruce.

[gromit]

Wow, Gromit, you have made GREAT progress in very little time, it looks really good.


It was a fully machined kit so apart from making the plinth and sorting out the pipework it's only been a fitting & assembly job......


1/4" x 32 is UNEF. No trouble sourcing taps, dies, fasteners for this. Much BA tooling is still available but expensive. The smaller they get the dearer they become. Suttons catalogue still shows BA taps and dies but I think any stock would be old and none made for years due to almost total lack of demand. Bruce Gardner of B.S.F. Bolts in Melbourne has BA taps, dies, fasteners. I never stocked them. Not enough demand to make stocking worthwhile. I left it all to Bruce.

I have a set of ME taps & dies and also a BA set (from Tracy Tools in the UK). Purchased many, many years ago. Found a 1/4 x 32 die for the pipework in my toolmakers chest.
The BA set has an 11BA tap which I'm unlikely to ever use.........


Colin

[gromit]

Collected a steam boiler from the father-in-law so once run-in on compressed air it could end up running on steam. Only problem is no drain cocks on the cylinders but they could be added if I decide to strip it down at a later date.

Someone is looking for a piece of brass for me so I can make the manifold for the globe valve. Whites in Clayton will have what I want but I'm not able to get there during the working week. I did drop into a scrap metal merchant yesterday and lots of brass strip, round & hex bar but nothing big enough for the manifold unfortunately.

I'm in contact with an oil blender to get some steam oil, not needed if running on compressed air but if I get it onto steam......


Colin

[gromit]

Couldn't find a suitable piece of brass so went to George White's in Clayton.
1" X 1/2" bar 1" long. The bloke looked in the offcut bin, then went to the rack and took a bar to the cutoff saw. Came back, gave me the piece and told me to bugger off (with a big smile on his face).

Machined, drilled & tapped the manifold. The globe valve is 5/16" X 40 and I had a tap, the inlet is 1/8" BSP ready for a pneumatic fitting.

Just need some soldering, valve timing and final assembly and it's ready to test. I'll get the young bloke to upload a video once it's running.


Colin

[Bigbjorn]

Couldn't find a suitable piece of brass so went to George White's in Clayton.
1" X 1/2" bar 1" long. The bloke looked in the offcut bin, then went to the rack and took a bar to the cutoff saw. Came back, gave me the piece and told me to bugger off (with a big smile on his face).

Machined, drilled & tapped the manifold. The globe valve is 5/16" X 40 and I had a tap, the inlet is 1/8" BSP ready for a pneumatic fitting.

Just need some soldering, valve timing and final assembly and it's ready to test. I'll get the young bloke to upload a video once it's running.


Colin

5/16" x 40 tpi is Model Engineers Thread. A 55 degree BSW thread form devised by a committee about 1912. As far as I can tell ME never had a British Standard. Comes in 26, 32, 40 tpi. Taps and dies are still available from specialist suppliers but are quite, quite, expensive. The 1/4" x 32 mentioned earlier is also ME but an equivalent and much cheaper is UNEF if you are not fussy about the mismatch of the thread angles. The 26 tpi ME series is identical to British Standard Brass (BSB). Many of these odd threads are available in US threads such as NEF and NS and some of the constant pitch series. For example 1/4" x 40 was used on the mixture needle of Schebler carbs. for decades and is readily available.

[gromit]

Finished the pipework, checked it over and had a go at valve timing.

Connected an air supply opened the globe valve and it runs !
It still needs to loosen up a bit and doesn't always start when the air is turned on so I guess the valve timing could be better.

I'll have to get the young bloke to upload a video......


Colin

[gromit]

YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmxFxPqDJus)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmxFxPqDJus

Colin

[LRJim]

YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmxFxPqDJus)


ColinThats awsome, you dont expect it to just fire up like that! Good job 🖒🖒

[Homestar]

Nice work mate - can't wait to see it running on steam after a good run in on air. What sort of oil you using for lubrication - Keith Appleton is always on about his own special blend...[smilebigeye]

[Bigbjorn]

Nice work mate - can't wait to see it running on steam after a good run in on air. What sort of oil you using for lubrication - Keith Appleton is always on about his own special blend...[smilebigeye]

Ships up and downers ran on 600W steam cylinder oil.

[gromit]

Nice work mate - can't wait to see it running on steam after a good run in on air. What sort of oil you using for lubrication - Keith Appleton is always on about his own special blend...[smilebigeye]

Just picked up some 'steam oil' from my friendly blender, quite viscous so I'll have to mix it with something.
Using light machine oil at the moment, steam oil isn't needed until you have to deal with condensation. As mentioned earlier you also really need drain cocks on the cylinders so I'd have to strip it down to add them.

Sent a link to the father-in-law and he was suitably impressed, especially that my 'guesswork' valve timing was close enough to get it to work as soon as the air was turned on (a certain amount of luck was involved !).

Interesting that as this is the first time I'd worked on a steam engine I was surprised that I'd seen the valve mechanism before. The same principle has been used by several pneumatic companies to make 4/2 valves in the past........

Interesting diversion, now need to get my workshop sorted out and get back to working on Land Rovers.


Colin

[grey_ghost]

Great work Colin! [emoji1303]

[p38arover]

Thanks for this. I had missed how it was going and only found it again today while Googling for info on the Stuart Turner 10V.

I've been hunting down all the info I have stored away in the garage to go with the set of castings I have and which I've decided to sell. I'm sure I bought a book on building an ST vertical back in the late 70s-early 80s when I bought the castings. Can't find it. :( At least I have the original drawings and ST instructions. Most of the castings are still vacuum sealed onto the backing sheet.

I started building it then went overseas for work so sold my Hare & Forbes lathe/mill and my Unimat modeller's lathe and never got back into it.

[gromit]

I'm keeping the Victoria Twin steam engine but have a number of other steam engines I inherited, plus a couple of steam boilers and lots of valves, governors etc. that are surplus to requirements.

I put an advert in Swap -Trade items some time back and also an advert on Gumtree.
Model steam engines and parts Swap for Series Land Rover ? (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/swap-trade-items/281928-model-steam-engines-parts-swap-series-land-rover.html)
Model Steam Engines | Collectables | Gumtree Australia Casey Area - Narre Warren South | 1260332177 (https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/narre-warren-south/collectables/model-steam-engines/1260332177)


Colin