Redesigned series shocker mounts.

[goingbush]

Converted my Series3 Lightweight over to Parabolics recently, it rides terrific but found the articulation is no better than with the cart springs. The standard shockers are limiting the down travel.

I don't think +50 shockers are the answer as they will bottom out unless you lower the bump stops, so you dont really gain anything.

So I'm installing P38 Front Shockers , front & rear .

They are 3" longer compressed and 5" longer extended than the standard 88" front shockers. The top mount needs to be raised 3" and will result in 2" more down travel.

Also mounting the shocker pivot fore-aft instead of left-right will prevent the binding of the bushings from limiting articulation.


http://goingbush.com/AULRO/p38a.jpg

.

[goingbush]

New bottom spring plate made from 10mm and the upper mount from 6mm

http://goingbush.com/AULRO/p381.jpg


Original shocker mount needs to be cut off , the new bracket is welded to it so that its still supported through to the other side of the chassis rail.

http://goingbush.com/AULRO/p382.jpg


http://goingbush.com/AULRO/p383.jpg

http://goingbush.com/AULRO/p384.jpg

[goingbush]

The rear mounts will be thus , on the inside off the springs , with the pins pointing rearward. Top of the shockers will be mounted above the diff like a FJ40 . I have no exhaust so its just wasted space at the moment.

http://goingbush.com/AULRO/p385.jpg


Ive edited this picture of a similar setup to what I propose. Being mounted inside the chassis will allow greater articulation for the same length shocker if it was mounted inn the original position outside the chassis.
http://goingbush.com/AULRO/p386.jpg

[roverrescue]

GB
Having not played with parabolics, do they cycle the shackle like “normal” leafs do
With your upper eye orientation, is there a risk of the damper colliding with your upper bracket as the shackle tilts backward and fishplate moves rearward?

S

[goingbush]

GB
Having not played with parabolics, do they cycle the shackle like “normal” leafs do
With your upper eye orientation, is there a risk of the damper colliding with your upper bracket as the shackle tilts backward and fishplate moves rearward?

S

Good point. I don't want to lift the vehicle from standard, it has short civvy shackles . The bottom of the shocker will move rearward about 35mm on full bump , theres 10mm clearance at the top where there will be no movement. the sides of the upper bracket taper toward the chassis as the shocker cants out toward the bottom. I don't think it will touch but if it does I can adjust the two 15mm spacers I have each side of the top mount and change to 10mm front 20mm at the rear. Or I could just remove the top cover of the shocker if its a problem. I'll definitely monitor it .

This is the rear but you can see the shackle angles parked on a 'ramp' , front is not going to cycle as much due to shorter spring length. note left rear shock is fully extended and keeping the wheel off the ground.

http://goingbush.com/AULRO/p387.jpg

[roverrescue]

35mm on bump
Seems like you’ve accounted and measured it!
The top bush should cope fine with that angular misalignment!

I like the rear setup

Looks like fun, do you have your own plasma table and pressbrake?

S

[goingbush]

35mm on bump
Seems like you’ve accounted and measured it!
The top bush should cope fine with that angular misalignment!

I like the rear setup

Looks like fun, do you have your own plasma table and pressbrake?

S

I went out and put the car up on diagonal ramps just to be sure , theres a good bit of clearance between the shock tube and bracket with the axle on the bump stop. So all good .

I have a cheapy handheld plasma which I rarely use, I took my CAD files to the local engineer they do a good job for not much more than the steel would cost me.

[grey_ghost]

I often look at other 4WD’s when sitting at traffic lights (I do that a fair bit on my daily commute). I have always wondered - why do some 4WD’s have one shock mounted in front of the rear axle and one mounted behind.

But others have both shocks mounted either in front of the rear axke or behind the rear axle??

Thoughts?

[JDNSW]

Not just four wheel drives, and my understanding is it is to damp the twisting of the axle, especially an issue where there is rubber isolation between the spring and the axle or where the springs are relatively soft compared to available torque.

[grey_ghost]

I had thought that it had something to do with the axle twisting. Thanks John.

[workingonit]

why do some 4WD’s have one shock mounted in front of the rear axle and one mounted behind.

The classic Range Rover has that set up - thought it was to do with reducing the effect of axle tramp.

[AK83]

The classic Range Rover has that set up - thought it was to do with reducing the effect of axle tramp.

??

RRC, as with the D1, both rear shockers are forward of the axle set with a slight angle.

[JDNSW]

Exactly - axle tramp is loss of grip due to the axle rhythmically twisting from torque reaction which is released when a wheel loses grip, in turn reducing torque allowing the axle to twist back, with this then repeated rapidly as the wheel regains grip. Having one in front and the other behind damps this motion, as the twisting moves the dampers.

[roverrescue]

Leading and trailing dampers are more common on leaf spring vehicles to control axle wrap
The rotational plane of movement
(My understanding of axle tramp was an unconstrained up and down cycling that helps develop corrugations!)

Coilers with upper and lower links shouldn’t have any rotational moment in the axle motion


Oh and years ago I was stripping an early RRC chassis for spring mounts and it definitely had leading and trailing rear dampers

S

[JDNSW]

.......
Coilers with upper and lower links shouldn’t have any rotational moment in the axle motion

....
S

Provided that there is no rubber in the suspension that allows the axle to twist! (In the RRC. and many others, there is)

[goingbush]

??

RRC, as with the D1, both rear shockers are forward of the axle set with a slight angle.

in workingonit's defence Early RRC had the left rear shocker forward of the axle & the right shocker rear of the axle ,

Pictured is my Hybrid made on a cut down 1974 RRC chassis , the right rear shocker is standard position for RRC of that vintage. The left rear shocker hard to see but def forward of axle.

http://goingbush.com/landy/90-10.jpg

http://goingbush.com/landy/90-7.jpg

[AK83]

in workingonit's defence Early RRC had the left rear shocker forward of the axle & the right shocker rear of the axle ,

....

Ah! didn't know this.

Mine was '79, and I'm sure I remember it be both forward.

[workingonit]

...in workingonit's defence...

cheers...and of course only when I'm not making an ass of myself, otherwise no excuse.

[workingonit]

??

RRC, as with the D1, both rear shockers are forward of the axle set with a slight angle.

1984 model I'm working on has them in opposition.

Interestingly, I stripped a 1997(?) V8 D1 and the shocks were on the same side, despite my expectation that the later V8's would have made more power than the earlier V8's and more tramp effect.


... I'm sure I remember it be both forward...

It becomes a blur after a while...pick a part up in the shed - now was this vacuum brake assist for the D1, the D2, the classic RR or the Series3 stage 1 - oh, that's right its for the land cruiser - and why did I come into the shed???

[Vern]

1984 model I'm working on has them in opposition.

Interestingly, I stripped a 1997(?) V8 D1 and the shocks were on the same side, despite my expectation that the later V8's would have made more power than the earlier V8's and more tramp effect.



It becomes a blur after a while...pick a part up in the shed - now was this vacuum brake assist for the D1, the D2, the classic RR or the Series3 stage 1 - oh, that's right its for the land cruiser - and why did I come into the shed???It changed in the mid 80's to all facing forward.

[AK83]

....
It becomes a blur after a while...pick a part up in the shed - now was this vacuum brake assist for the D1, the D2, the classic RR or the Series3 stage 1 - oh, that's right its for the land cruiser - and why did I come into the shed???

[biggrin]

LOL! yeah.
Did same a while back with my viscous on my Tdi.
Grabbed the white box in my (psuedo) shed, walked back to car, started removing fan .. etc. etc .. open box .. it was the old waterpump box with old WP in it!
Doh! (thought I chucked it).

Seals are my worst fear .. is it wheel bearing, or front cover seal .. hopefully not cam seal. I got plenty of spares just in case they're required .. but idiot me didn't mark them. Just have to chase up the part Nos one day and do so.

I do remember on the RRC that the top bush mount was a split pin type on the shocks, and a right PITA to install .. just really don't remember orientation.
Did the D1 a couple of years ago ... woohoo! ... bit large easy to get nut! [thumbsupbig]

[goingbush]

OK, the front is done, I'm not sure it articulates much better in a static test , but one thing is for sure , the shocks are no longer at their limits, and I tell you what, it rides very nice and smooth over bumps .

It looks like the shocker bottom bolts hang down a bit , but they actually have over an inch more ground clearance than the old shocker pin with the cart springs, I don't think they will be a problem.



http://goingbush.com/AULRO/p388.jpg


Now onto the rear shockers !!

[goingbush]

New rear lower shock mounts from 10mm plate, using bolts from original Series upper mounts, rather than usual lower split pin.

http://goingbush.com/AULRO/p389.jpg

[goingbush]

Rear shockers done.

Again these are P38 front. (with the bottom bolts exchanged for eyes from an old Series shocker)

What a transformation, had a quick test drive in the dark the car is way smoother over bumps and it can drive diagonal across a culvert that I needed to ride the brakes before (for my TrueTracs torque biasing) because opposite wheels were in the air before .


http://goingbush.com/AULRO/p3810.jpg

[goingbush]

Jobs Done .

To park on this stump with the original shockers one of the rear wheels was well off the ground. The left rear shocker still has 2" to go before it bottoms out & the right has about an inch to go before topping.

Happy with the result which realises the full off road potential of the parabolic springs whilst keeping the original shackle length ( and vehicle stance) and at the same time improving on-road driving too.


http://goingbush.com/AULRO/p3811.jpg

http://goingbush.com/AULRO/p3812.jpg

[ian4002000]

Have you checked your driveshafts to ensure they aren't at full extension ? I found that the original front shocks were the correct length to stop the driveshaft being over extended, i found that Peddars front shocks allowed the suspension to drop to far and exceed the front driveshaft length.

Ian
Bittern

[goingbush]

Have you checked your driveshafts to ensure they aren't at full extension ? I found that the original front shocks were the correct length to stop the driveshaft being over extended, i found that Peddars front shocks allowed the suspension to drop to far and exceed the front driveshaft length.

Ian
Bittern

Good thought but no fear of that, I'm running standard length shackles , theres still full spline engagement at full droop.

[roverrescue]

Nice work
Like your rear cross over brace and double shear eye mounts

What section size is that SHS?
Are you happy with the beefosity?

S

[goingbush]

Nice work
Like your rear cross over brace and double shear eye mounts

What section size is that SHS?
Are you happy with the beefosity?

S

its 50 x50 x3mm x .63m = 28.9kN , so good for almost 3 tonne , Rear axle loading is 1190kg so I'm confident that its up to the task . esp when compared to the Iveco shocker mounts made from 3mm ,
for 3x the mass , never the less will monitor it .

[davros]

What tyres are they, by the way?

[goingbush]

What tyres are they, by the way?


These are Evergreen ES89 215/85R16LT from Tyroola.com.au . made in China.

I though I'd try a smoother road oriented tyre as all I could hear was tyre lug noise. They are the skinniest tyres I could find in the size range, and they mount up nicely on the skinny SWB Series rims.

Can't believe they were only $75.00 Each . 5 tyres delivered were under $500 , Once I fitted them & drove one them I was so impressed I bought another incase they became unavailable if I damaged one. I DIY fitted at home ( mounted tubeless) I have no weights & they are vibration free up to & over 110kmh.

Impressed so far . As Ive never had 'highway tyres' before I'm super surprised how well these go in the slippery stuff. One complaint, they pick up every piece of gravel / small stone and you have to get up to 100kmh to clear them out or else put up with clack - clack - clack as you drive along.


Photo compared to a new STA Super Traxion 6.50-16 (which is more of a 7.00-16 if you measure it)

http://goingbush.com/AULRO/ES89.jpg

[davros]

Interesting. Hadn’t heard of that tyre. Currently running 7.5/r16 still but one day may be forced to change! Worry if I went larger/wider I would risk more half-shaft breakages. I have old rover diff with special short hub ‘caps’. Axles are shorter with a female thread in end so breaking is bad!

[goingbush]

Interesting. Hadn’t heard of that tyre. Currently running 7.5/r16 still but one day may be forced to change! Worry if I went larger/wider I would risk more half-shaft breakages. I have old rover diff with special short hub ‘caps’. Axles are shorter with a female thread in end so breaking is bad!

So your running original Lightweight axles. Its why I went to Heavy duty Ashcroft half shafts because I was afraid the Electric torque would make short work of the hard to get Lightweight version. Im thinking of modifying some Hilux semi floater axles into look-alike Lightweight axles. That way the flange & half shaft will be a one piece forging.

[ian4002000]

Good thought but no fear of that, I'm running standard length shackles , theres still full spline engagement at full droop.

Interesting thought about shackles. What did the army do with drive shaft length on the series 2's and 3's ?
My drive shafts have a retaining nut thingy to stop the shaft pulling completely apart, I found when the vehicle was on the hoist that the front prop shaft bolts were under tension and i couldn't easily put the drive shaft back in.
Once the shocks were changed back to standard there was no problem with tail shaft length.

Ian
Bittern

[davros]

I put the Australian army shackles on my lightweight and the front prop shaft could foul against the chassis cross member near the transfer case. Grinder and welding fixed it...

[davros]

So your running original Lightweight axles. Its why I went to Heavy duty Ashcroft half shafts because I was afraid the Electric torque would make short work of the hard to get Lightweight version. Im thinking of modifying some Hilux semi floater axles into look-alike Lightweight axles. That way the flange & half shaft will be a one piece forging.

What’s that ‘electric torque ‘? EV?

[goingbush]

What’s that ‘electric torque ‘? EV?

I replaced the 2.25 with an Electric motor , it has maximum torque from zero RPM so I thought I better beef up the back end.

http://goingbush.com/AULRO/under.jpg

[davros]

I replaced the 2.25 with an Electric motor , it has maximum torque from zero RPM so I thought I better beef up the back end.

http://goingbush.com/AULRO/under.jpg

Awesome. Great to see that once petrol is declared a nasty carcinogenic substance that can be purchased by laboratories at $50/L, these old vehicles will still be running!
Good job! Have you got more pics up? I’ve been just starting to troll through your older posts to find out! Range? Charging time?
Great job! And what better vehicle to convert! Dave

[goingbush]

Awesome. Great to see that once petrol is declared a nasty carcinogenic substance that can be purchased by laboratories at $50/L, these old vehicles will still be running!
Good job! Have you got more pics up? I’ve been just starting to troll through your older posts to find out! Range? Charging time?
Great job! And what better vehicle to convert! Dave

Cheers , most people are not so agreeable about me "stuffing up a perfectly good Lightweight"

just uploaded a fresh youtube of clips from the past 18 months.

Range is about 80km, charge time from a 15Amp outlet for a full charge is about 8 hours. I typically do 20-25km a day and charge once every 2 or 3 days.




https://youtu.be/TDgun7V5Hb4

[davros]

Awesome awesome effort. Does a river crossing electrocute multiple life forms including the driver? Interesting the amount of noise from the gears still gives it an authentic touch!
Good job.
Dave

[davros]

Cheers , most people are not so agreeable about me "stuffing up a perfectly good Lightweight"

just uploaded a fresh youtube of clips from the past 18 months.

Range is about 80km, charge time from a 15Amp outlet for a full charge is about 8 hours. I typically do 20-25km a day and charge once every 2 or 3 days.




https://youtu.be/TDgun7V5Hb4

I guess to some Landy owners the last few posts are like seeing their girlfriend peel her face off, revealing she is really a robot! Ahhhhrrrgh! Help!

[whitehillbilly64]

Like to see some pics under the bonnet, and battery set up.
I compete in Trials, on my old Greeves.
Quite a few Electric Trials Bikes appearing.

whitehillbilly

[goingbush]

I guess to some Landy owners the last few posts are like seeing their girlfriend peel her face off, revealing she is really a robot! Ahhhhrrrgh! Help!

Thats an interesting perspective. hmmm

[goingbush]

Like to see some pics under the bonnet, and battery set up.
I compete in Trials, on my old Greeves.
Quite a few Electric Trials Bikes appearing.

whitehillbilly


It would be quite the motorkhana competitor as you don't need to select reverse, its just the flick of a switch (in any gear) . you could also use a 'wigwag' throttle , so its heel / toe for reverse / forward

there is a thread with more details & photos

Goingbush's Electric Vehicle project (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/alternate-energies/252534-goingbushs-electric-vehicle-project-2.html)