Discovery 4 stopped. Any opinions on reason please?

[Disco4Dave]

I have a 2016 Discovery 4 SDV6 with approx 74K kms, which has been to LR for all the standard services, plus an extra engine oil and filter change by LR between services. Other than an electrical problem as a result of a botched electric brake controller install by LR, it has been trouble free. It's last scheduled service was about 2 weeks ago at a LR dealer, and it has done less than 500 kms since that service. The gearbox, transfer case and diff oils were changed about 14k kms ago by a LR independent.
It mainly does service as a tow vehicle hauling a 2.8ish tonne (loaded) car trailer between Sydney and Goulburn or Melbourne.
Yesterday I was headed up the hill at Kurrajong Heights, towing the trailer empty so approx 1.5 tonnes, and as a reached the top felt a shudder. As I had a problem earlier in the day with one of the trailer brakes locking on I initially thought it was a recurrence of that, but after about 20 seconds the forward drive of the car reduced and I realised it was not the trailer. I pulled over and as I stopped heard a loud metallic grinding noise. I immediately stopped the engine. There was a strong smell of engine oil or transmission fluid. Not sure which.
I used a torch and checked in the engine bay and underneath, but could see no obvious signs of fluid leaks or anything else wayward. The in-car diagnostics showed the oil level at maximum, ie normal. After about 15 minutes I tried restarting the engine. It started straight away but immediately had the grinding noise again, so I again stopped the engine.
NRMA was called and the patrolman after hearing my story did not want me to try starting the engine again. He removed the oil filler cap and noted it was very dry inside, without any sign of oil, and it had a burnt smell.
The car went on a tilt-tray truck and along with the trailer was delivered to my home. The car is scheduled to be taken to a LR dealer tomorrow.
As it is still (just) under the original 3 year warranty, I am expecting it will be fixed by LR. But I want to have as much information as possible before starting any discussions with them.
My guess is that the oil pump has failed. Any thoughts please?

[kelvo]

My thoughts it could be a snapped crank.

Land Rover are aware of the issue, but still deny it Jaguar Land Rover recall TDV6 engined vehicles (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/l319-discovery-3-and-4-a/265811-jaguar-land-rover-recall-tdv6-engined-vehicles.html)

[kelvo]

Did it sound like this Google Photos (https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipOhRgFcOOpipa1KaLFfQZlScgdWW0EaU3O4r7G5eOQ9M4-lVX60N1u8GDGKjVcALw/photo/AF1QipMYsl2gcWNK-Fm9GvY4AibaHUBgPFiSz-0VOIX4?key=cGd1d2d2b2k1TkhCVG1YcDhfRnRTaG9MVEYxTkl B)

This D4 had an oil change 200-500 miles before the crank snapped. MY12 engine had done 123,000 miles and very well maintained. Used as a pilot vehicle in Europe.

[Disco4Dave]

Kelvo, No it didn't sound like that. More of a constant, grinding and screeching sound.
Given the publicity around the issue, a broken crank was the first though I had but:
- I was able to restart the engine,
- There was no external evidence. My experience with race cars :-( is that a catastrophic bottom end failure usually results in a ventilated block or sump. The Disco was parked in a shed on a concrete floor last night, and there was no evidence of any fluid on the floor, and
- I forgot to mention this, but I have an IID tool and after I had stopped, before I restarted the engine I checked for error codes. There were none.
Also, my reading suggests the broken crank was more common with 2.7s and TDV6 3.0s.
Thanks for your feedback.

[loanrangie]

There doesn't have to be any external evidence of the crank snapping unless it has decided to leave the block, unlikely to be the oil pump as the failure is confined to the 2.7 unless it is an unrelated pump issue.
Cam chains that drive the 2nd cam have been known to fail, this is more likely as the engine isn't totally stuffed if they go.

[PerthDisco]

Interesting discussion on Disco3 of improperly installed oil filters on the 2.7D leading to cooked (oil starved) engines.

Changes were done by inexperienced independents who did not locate the filter properly before screwing on the cap. Filter gets crushed.

Trick for the inexperienced.

I think the filter fit is different on the 3.0D but worth checking especially if recently after a service.

In most situations the failure would be put down to just another blown engine and not the improperly fitted filter.

[Graeme]

The 3.0 filter and housing were changed to not use a locating spigot and therefore avoid misfitted filters.

[Disco4Dave]

The LR dealer has reported the failure as a spun crank bearing, and a new engine less peripherals is being supplied and fitted under warranty. Here's hoping that no debris has got past the oil filter to the turbo bearings.
I was aware of the history of bearing issues and resulting crank failures with this family of engines, but had believed it was mainly a problem with the TDV6 version, and much less so with the SDV6 variant.
We should have the car back in just over a week, and I look forward to getting back on the road.

[PerthDisco]

Fortunate outcome.

You would think the 3.0D had an entirely new re-engineered bottom end but I suspect not.

[LRD414]

.... believed it was mainly a problem with the TDV6 version, and much less so with the SDV6 variant.....
I don't believe there's any mechanical difference between TDV6 and SDV6 in the late model 3.0L variants, just a different tune.

Regards,
Scott

PS I hate hearing these stories as an owner of a 2014 TDV6 myself

[cjc_td5]

I don't believe there's any mechanical difference between TDV6 and SDV6 in the late model 3.0L variants, just a different tune.

Regards,
Scott

PS I hate hearing these stories as an owner of a 2014 TDV6 myselfYep I agree.
I know the OP had a std tune, but its one reason why i won't up-tune my TDV6.

[Geedublya]

The LR dealer has reported the failure as a spun crank bearing, and a new engine less peripherals is being supplied and fitted under warranty. Here's hoping that no debris has got past the oil filter to the turbo bearings.
I was aware of the history of bearing issues and resulting crank failures with this family of engines, but had believed it was mainly a problem with the TDV6 version, and much less so with the SDV6 variant.
We should have the car back in just over a week, and I look forward to getting back on the road.

All the diesel V6s can have this problem. Doesn't seem to matter how often oil and filters are changed. One of the reasons why a prefer the petrol V8.

[Aussie Jeepster]

The LR dealer has reported the failure as a spun crank bearing, and a new engine less peripherals is being supplied and fitted under warranty. Here's hoping that no debris has got past the oil filter to the turbo bearings.
I was aware of the history of bearing issues and resulting crank failures with this family of engines, but had believed it was mainly a problem with the TDV6 version, and much less so with the SDV6 variant.
We should have the car back in just over a week, and I look forward to getting back on the road.

Wow. To use an overused expression these days, you dodged a bullet!
Glad the dealer stepped up with the warranty replacement, but I would be concerned with bits of metal in the ancillaries and tubes.

[DiscoJeffster]

There have been cases of D5 engines also failing so the issue is still real sadly.

[cjc_td5]

There have been cases of D5 engines also failing so the issue is still real sadly.

I was in at my local LR dealer a couple of weeks ago. (Mine was off the road for a month having a cracked inlet manifold replaced under extended warranty (yay).) The service manager pointed to a MY14ish D4 parked next to mine. He said it had an injector get stuck open, which hydraulic'd the cylinder and spat a leg out of bed. New engine time... :-(

[Graeme]

Here's hoping that no debris has got past the oil filter to the turbo bearings.If a turbo is discovered damaged when the engine is started then the turbo(s) will have to be replaced as part of the repair. However unless the turbos had been working hard at the time then they should be OK even if oil pressure was reduced substantially.

[Disco4Dave]

If a turbo is discovered damaged when the engine is started then the turbo(s) will have to be replaced as part of the repair. However unless the turbos had been working hard at the time then they should be OK even if oil pressure was reduced substantially.
Thanks Graeme. Unfortunately I was towing approx 1.5t uphill when the engine failed, so there would have been some load on the engine.
The dealer technician says they will clean and inspect the turbos before refitting and then testing. Hopefully any issues will be apparent.

[Disco4Dave]

The Disco is back, with a new engine.
They reused most of the peripherals from the old engine, including the turbos.
When cut open, the old oil filter contained some shrapnel. From that I take that the oil pump was still working as the crank bearing failed, and that there must be some risk to the peripherals such as the turbos. They assure me that the peripherals were inspected and tested before being refitted.
I was told by the dealer that the new engine would have a 1 year warranty, but after querying that directly with JLR I learner that in the case of a warranty replacement, it is only covered by the balance of the factory warranty. In my case that is 2 weeks from now. JLR said that if any of the peripherals failed in the near future, after the factory warranty expired, they would "take care" of me. They would not be more explicit on what that means.
There are 2 matters concerning the engine change work that concern me.
The car was ready a day later than planned as it had a coolant leak after the engine swap. This was due to a pinched o-ring on the water pump transferred from the old engine. My concern here is that this may indicate a lack of care when fitting the pump.
The other matter is minor but still concerning. The car has an ARB bullbar which of course needed to be removed to get the body off. That bullbar hasyellow blinkers and white DRLs. When collecting the car, I did a walk around with the engine running and noted that on one side, the yellow blinker was on while the white DRL was not. Putting on the blinkers resulted in the DRL flashing. So, they have mixed up the wiring on those lights on one side. No big deal. But surely someone should have noticed that in the 5 days they had the car after the engine swap was completed. To me it shows a lack of attention and care.
The car does to a LR indi next week for an inspection to catalogue any issues to raise before the warranty expires. I wonder what they will find!

[theelms66]

Thats interesting about turbo inspection as when i was fault finding a turbo issue with my l322. The turbo specialist told me he would not dismantle turbo to inspect if there were any faults without replacing seals. So you think they would at least replace seals or not inspected thoroughly.

[Eric SDV6SE]

When my D4 had one of its turbo s replaced under warranty it was a body off job. I also have an ARB bar, plus Anderson plug, Tekonsha brake controller etc. They got the wiring for the bar lights right, but not the Anderson or brake controller. JLR were good enough to allow me to take it to my auto electrician that had fitted these items originally and covered the costs to redo it all correctly. I reckon that's pretty good. The JLR mechanics are not aftermarket accessory fitters.

[Disco4Dave]

When my D4 had one of its turbo s replaced under warranty it was a body off job. I also have an ARB bar, plus Anderson plug, Tekonsha brake controller etc. They got the wiring for the bar lights right, but not the Anderson or brake controller. JLR were good enough to allow me to take it to my auto electrician that had fitted these items originally and covered the costs to redo it all correctly. I reckon that's pretty good. The JLR mechanics are not aftermarket accessory fitters.
I agree re their expertise. I assume they have a LR supplied manual which details a step-by-step process for doing an engine swap on a D4. They would have no such manual for the bullbar. However, the outcome of this mistake was very obvious, the orange light on always on one side, so either

1. Nobody looked at the front of the car when it was being moved around over 5 days after the engine change. I gave permission for one of the techs to take it overnight as a road test. Surely they should have noticed! I would be shocked if the body off/on process did not include a check on the correct operation of many functions on completion, like lights.

2. They spotted it but couldn't be bothered removing the protection plates under the bullbar to get at the wiring again.
Either way, not a sign of good attention.

Anyway, I will fix it this weekend.
Thanks for your reminder about brake controllers and rear Anderson's. I will have to check them too :-)

[Jeffoir]

Hi Dave
2 years later how did all this finish up for you please?
is the D4 still with you?
going well?
any news pls?
thx and best wishes
jeff

[BradC]

Hi Dave
2 years later how did all this finish up for you please?
is the D4 still with you?
going well?
any news pls?
thx and best wishes
jeff

Given his last log-in was Oct 2019, I’d be surprised if you get a response.