Fuel pump died in my Defender td5... again!

[bluetongue]

I had to replace my fuel pump about 3 months ago... the one that sit's on top of the fuel tank (lift pump I guess it is...?).

A little over 1300 bucks later I had a new one fitted and away I went. I got a longranger 127L tank put in at same time.

The first fuel pump lasted about 20-30 minutes of drive-time... with the testing around the suburb by the mechanic, on their dyno-test-bed and then me driving around the block just managing to roll back into their driveway.

They write that pump off to be a dodgy one and fitted a newbie on the house.

My 2000 defender has done around 112,000 k's, it's done it's fair share of forest road driving, 2 long-w/e trips to fraser, corregations, but no rock-climbing, etc. It hasn't been thrashed. It's in good nick and goes well.

Anyway, few days ago (no more than 4 full tanks of diesel at either coles or woolies), the bluddy thing died again!!

The mechanics got it out and found pieces of rust and other bits of cr#p in the bottom of the fuel pump. They checked the fuel tank and it was clean on the inside... no flaky bits of rust or corrosion. They reckon it must've got in from the bowser at the petrol station.

Not that I don't enjoy forking out another 1300+ bucks for a new fuel pump but it's literally got me buggered.

Has anyone had this problem with dodgy fuel before?

Is there any way to prevent that cr#p from getting into the tank?

Anyone know of any good tea-strainers that snugly fit down the pipe of the fuel tank?

Maybe I could pull a stocking over the nossle before I fill up the tank?... or would that contaminate it even more with synthetic fibres or some other cr#p.

So far I've had to get an nrma tow-truck - twice in the middle of surburbia. I'm a bit worried now that next time it claps out I'll be cruising down some beach close to tide-rolling-back-in or out in the woods behind the back-arse-end-of-nowhere... argh

Any ideas anyone? Are there alternative to the standard LR pump+tank setup? Or at least something that can be done so I've got a custom-made "limp" home feature?

Cheers in advance.
Scott

[noddy]

Bluetongue -- sorry to hear about your problems.

Mine is currently dying.... :cry: Or at least I think it is the fuel pump and I also have a long range tank. Kimba has done 127,000kms.

Anything below 1/4 of a tank and it will just not start. Have to go through the priming sequence and refill the tank to the top. The she will wail like a banshee for a while and be OK until I empty the tank.....(don't let the tank get empty until I can save up for a new pump).

I have been pricing new pumps and the best price I have got is around the $850. LRA quoted be $1200 8O.

As for your problem with rust etc, I have never had the problem nor heard of it, BUT my old 130 use to have gauze on the filler pipe. Slows filling a bit, but might be an option. I would be pushing for them to replace it as a faulty item or getting the rust etc and going back to your last service station.

Regards

[one_iota]

Curiously in seven years I have never had a problem with fuel...It's only a 300 Tdi..but maybe the issue lies elsewhere

[tombraider]

Originally posted by Noddy
Mine is currently dying.... :cry: Or at least I think it is the fuel pump and I also have a long range tank. Kimba has done 127,000kms.

Anything below 1/4 of a tank and it will just not start. Have to go through the priming sequence and refill the tank to the top. The she will wail like a banshee for a while and be OK until I empty the tank.....(don't let the tank get empty until I can save up for a new pump).

I've had this too.... But not quite like you!

When my 127l tank is low the pump squeals on startup.

And during running runs louder due to the hollow metal box its sitting in! Amplifying the sound.

At startup, when low, and sitting a while, the return line bleeds down.
I turn the key, the pump screams and after about ten seconds it has self primed and I click to Start and she's away.

Had the tank installed 2 weeks after purchase, been that way since (MY2001 and 130,000+ km's)

So I'm not worried too much about it.

Cheers
Mike

[bluetongue]

gday fellas...

I wish my pump had of made alot of noise.
The only warning I got was about 10 minutes... I start loosing power especially in the high revs then it stalls.

Baed on tombraiders comments, hopefully yours is ok noddy.

Although I hate to pay for another pump, I just hope I've got it fixed once and for all. Somehow I'll work out a way to keep the fuel going into my tank totally clean, but I just can't believe with all the defenders out there (... and not to mention all the diesel-driven-vehicles) that more are not getting contaminated... or maybe I was just unlucky.

Maybe it's just that... I was cursed.

First time it died (3 mths back) I was on stoney creek road here in sydney. I had just enough momentum luckily, to turn into a side street then wait for nrma tow-truck.

Second time it died I was on stoney creek road, going the opposite direction, same thing, I had just enough momentum to turn into a side street --- but get this --- directly opposite the side street where I broke down 3 months ago.

Maybe I should start praying to the good lord above....

Scott

[barryj]

Please excuse my lack of knowledge on the 2000 defender, but my previous 1997 300 Tdi had a pull up spout with a strainer in the base of it. Did they do away with this on the 2000 model.

I must admit I took it out a few times at hi flow bowsers due to foaming but it kept crap out of the tank when I used it.

Please inform me if this strainer is a lost asset in the newer models. My 1962 series 2a and 1976 series 3 Land Rovers had them as standard.

They were also great to pull up when filling with Jerry Cans https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ .


Barry

[dhumphri]

Guys just looked on a couple of UK parts sites and I reckon you could get a pump for approx $600.00 landed - maybe even cheaper. The pump is
$199.00 pound from:

http://www.famousfour.co.uk/new_parts/part...fender&sec=fuel (http://www.famousfour.co.uk/new_parts/parts.php'veh=defender&sec=fuel)

Daz

[George130]

You mentioned woolies for your fuel. I stopped using woolies back when I was looking after a mates diesel merc. I got a total of 50km out of a full tank. It was full of water and other crap. That 50km took 4 seperat session of bleeding and priming the system and having to then tow the bugger home. Mate was not amused and then told me his brother had had the exact thing happen a week before from the same woolies servo. His response was please don't use woolies again.

But they are with caltex so it could have just been a coincidence.

[mark2]

Is the pump in the tank a low pressure lift pump which merely provides fuel to the injection pump? If so, fit an electric external pump for about $40 with a seperate swithch and swap the lines over if the in tank pump plays up. I have a second external pump permamently fitted in my V8 110 in case of a problem.

[disco_ute]

I once heard of a safeway servo near where i live had 8 cars die within 1k of the servo after filling up not sure if it were diesel or petrol..... but i makes you wonder...

also so far everybody that has complained about fuel pump problems in this thread has a longranger fuel tank.... i wonder if the pumps are burning out some how when the tanks are getting low???? maybe sucking in too much air??

Mick

[bluetongue]

barryj wrote <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Please excuse my lack of knowledge on the 2000 defender, but my previous 1997 300 Tdi had a pull up spout with a strainer in the base of it. Did they do away with this on the 2000 model. [/b][/quote]
I saw 2 of these today... on an old series and on a 96 model 300 tdi
I rang around a couple of places to see if I could get one for the 2000 TD5 and no luck... never came with it as standard, can't get them aftermarket.
The other thing that all of them said is that it won't stop bad fuel anyway...

George130 wrote <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>You mentioned woolies for your fuel.[/b][/quote]
If I put bad fuel in it either came from woolies (caltex) or coles (shell). I've filled up max 4 times since the last pump.
During my ring around, I was told BP at Milperra are the best in my area (south-west sydney)... I filled up there tonight and seems pretty good... it at least has a nice little sign on the bowser saying "now cleaner"... so you gotta be happy with that 8O
I contemplated using bio-diesel... I heard there's a good place in Marickville that sells a mixture (something like 80/20) and it'd be much cleaner.
The mechanic warned me against it.
I decided I'll stick with normal diesel for now... and only from BP Milperra if I can... at least then I'll narrow it down next time the pump fails (fingers-crossed it doesn't)

mark2 wrote <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Is the pump in the tank a low pressure lift pump [/b][/quote]
As far as I know after discussing with the mechanic - no. He said it's high pressure.

mickrangie wrote <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>also so far everybody that has complained about fuel pump problems in this thread has a longranger fuel tank.... i wonder if the pumps are burning out some how when the tanks are getting low???? maybe sucking in too much air?? [/b][/quote]
Definately all the advice I've had today tells me to never let the tank drop below 1/4... kind of defeats the purpose of a long-range tank but then... what can we do :?

Thanks also to dhumphri... got to keep that in mind, not just for this but any parts we purchase... my wallet is pretty much cleaned out for now.

Scott

[abaddonxi]

I think you'd be looking for this fella.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Early-Range-Rover-F...1QQcmdZViewItem (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Early-Range-Rover-Fuel-filler-extension-tube_W0QQitemZ4636417042QQcategoryZ102341QQrdZ1QQc mdZViewItem)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2006/05/111.jpg

I don't know if this would fit your filler, but the guff about the lugs/indentations is all about sliding the filler out, which you don't need to do to fill from a pump.

Cheers
Simon

[kie4]

Hi
The strainer you pictured won't fit in the newer filler necks, but you can fit an older style filler neck with a bit of modification to the body and a different hose.

Richard

[abaddonxi]

Originally posted by kie4
Hi
The strainer you pictured won't fit in the newer filler necks, but you can fit an older style filler neck with a bit of modification to the body and a different hose.

Richard

Bugger.

Cheers
Simon

[barryj]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>The other thing that all of them said is that it won't stop bad fuel anyway...[/b][/quote]
At the least it would stop bits of rust and crap blocking the fuel pump, this was the problem mentioned in the earlier part of the post.

[DEFENDERZOOK]

Originally posted by bluetongue
gday fellas...


First time it died (3 mths back) I was on stoney creek road here in sydney. I had just enough momentum luckily, to turn into a side street then wait for nrma tow-truck.

Second time it died I was on stoney creek road, going the opposite direction, same thing, I had just enough momentum to turn into a side street --- but get this --- directly opposite the side street where I broke down 3 months ago.

Maybe I should start praying to the good lord above....

Scott


<span style="color:blue">id skip stoney creek and start using forest......</span>

[mark2]

Most of the diesel bowsers I've seen/used have a filter fitted just before the delivery hose. I can understand if this didnt stop water but surely it would stop larger particles. Unless there was no element fitted.

Makes you wonder if landrover really thought about operating modern landrovers in 3rd world countries where refueling is often done from jerries and rusty 44's .....

[Bigbjorn]

Is the pump in the tank a low pressure lift pump which merely provides fuel to the injection pump? If so, fit an electric external pump for about $40 with a seperate swithch and swap the lines over if the in tank pump plays up. I have a second external pump permamently fitted in my V8 110 in case of a problem.

Now, I don't know what sort of system a TD5 has to supply fuel but I suspect it has a high volume low pressure charge pump supplying a high pressure pump which shoves the stuff into the common rail. Correct me if I am wrong. Now the $1300 mentioned sounds to me like typical Brit/Euro rip-off parts pricing ( the knights of Nippon are worse). Check out the web site for Walbro Corporation of Cass City, Michigan. They produce a staggering range of "Autopulse" fuel system components, amongst which are numbers of high & low volume, high & low pressure pumps. They don't sell direct but I have had terrific service from a dealer they referred me to, V.E.Petersen Co. info@vepetersen.com. Thet sent me a kit for my Autopulse 2100 series pump for US$9.09 plus airmail costs US$10.70. Bunged it on the Visa and it was here in 6 days. I am sure you will find an OEM or aftermarket pump that can be adapted to the job with a little bit of fabrication and fitting, and keep heaps of change out of the quoted $1300 to spend on beer, girls, and racehorses. Some of the change you could even waste. As an aside, if you must buy all electronic singing and dancing motor cars, you can expect to be held up roadside with instantaneous & catastrophic electronic failures, which mostly can not be diagnosed or repaired roadside. You will spend heaps of Oxfords towing these modern devices to the authorised dealership, who charge excessively. I bought my County Isuzu to get away from the electrical problems in my late model Falcon ute workhorse. In four years I spent more on towing, let alone the repairs, than I had spent in total on repairs in ten years on my previous workhorse, a carburettor & points vehicle. I firmly believe an electronic failure will cause a tragedy in a remote or outback ara. This is inevitable.

[RobHay]

gday fellas...

I wish my pump had of made alot of noise.
The only warning I got was about 10 minutes... I start loosing power especially in the high revs then it stalls.

Baed on tombraiders comments, hopefully yours is ok noddy.

Although I hate to pay for another pump, I just hope I've got it fixed once and for all. Somehow I'll work out a way to keep the fuel going into my tank totally clean, but I just can't believe with all the defenders out there (... and not to mention all the diesel-driven-vehicles) that more are not getting contaminated... or maybe I was just unlucky.

Maybe it's just that... I was cursed.

First time it died (3 mths back) I was on stoney creek road here in sydney. I had just enough momentum luckily, to turn into a side street then wait for nrma tow-truck.

Second time it died I was on stoney creek road, going the opposite direction, same thing, I had just enough momentum to turn into a side street --- but get this --- directly opposite the side street where I broke down 3 months ago.

Maybe I should start praying to the good lord above....

Scott

I could do a storey on this! :) :D :p

[bluetongue]

I could do a storey on this! :) :D :p

Man... how did this old thread pop it's head up :)

I don't know if I mentioned it on another thread but about 10 days after I broke down for the 2nd time (i.e. stoney creek road here in kingsgrove sydney)... I broke down a 3rd time ... only about 5 minutes up the road from the last break-down on forest road across the road from peakhurst inn.

But get this.... the tow truck driver that towed me the 2nd time.... he rocked up the 3rd time....

..... Big kiwi bloke with a cheeky wide grin on his face :D

This time though, pump did not die, just the connections disconnected spewing diesel all over the road....

I was pretty bummed out at the time but the kiwi cheered me up after he told me he had towed a bloke and his 06 model ford falcon --- for the 4th time!!!

... Scott

[spudboy]

I've had this too.... But not quite like you!

When my 127l tank is low the pump squeals on startup.

And during running runs louder due to the hollow metal box its sitting in! Amplifying the sound.

At startup, when low, and sitting a while, the return line bleeds down.
I turn the key, the pump screams and after about ten seconds it has self primed and I click to Start and she's away.

Had the tank installed 2 weeks after purchase, been that way since (MY2001 and 130,000+ km's)

So I'm not worried too much about it.

Cheers
Mike

TombRaider - I've got the same LongRanger tank on my TD5 130 by the sound of it, and my fuel pump makes loud whirring noises too, especially when the tank is nearing empty. I thought the pump was on the way out (135,000Km on the vehicle - only 6 months with me though) but maybe this is normal???

I've pulled out the pump assembly and it was as clean as a whistle in there. I can't imagine where they justify $1300 for a new pump though.

Can you buy just the pump bit, without the whole plastic/springs/etc outer assembly?

Thanks
David

[tombraider]

Is that $1300 fitted?

If thats supply only I can certainly make you feel a bit better than that.

Cheers
Mike (Tombraider)

[DirtyDawg]

I will take the lower KW's disadvantage my TDi has over the electrical and expensive TD5 components..My lift pump costs $100, $1300 is ridiculous, worlds gone mad. I feel for you bluetongue.. is there any components on the TD5 under a grand?

[bluetongue]

yeah fitted price was around the 1300 buck mark...

[hiline]

i thought mine had gone also awhile back :mad: :mad:

but it turned out to be the fuel filter was clagged with crap

the one that sits near the rear wheel (DRIVERS SIDE)


pump was screaming its tits off............now no screaming at all :D

[George130]

Mine just screams on start up for a couple of seconds then goes back to a happy quiet hum

[spudboy]

Mike - can you get just the pump part, or just a much better price than $1300 for the whole assembly? I can easily fit it myself as I've already pulled the existing one out no problems.

From the other posts by HiLine and George130, it sounds like a bit of noise on start up is normal, and maybe I don't have anything to worry about.

[BigJon]

For some reason a Disco pump is roughly $550, a Defender pump is about $1300. I haven't yet looked, but I suspect the actual pump part may be the same. That being the case you could buy a Disco (cheap) pump/sender, pull it to bits and fit the pump part into the Defender housing/sender unit.
Food for Thought.:cool:

[bluetongue]

From the other posts by HiLine and George130, it sounds like a bit of noise on start up is normal, and maybe I don't have anything to worry about.
I wouldn't worry.... with the 2 times my pump died I heard nothing!!!
At least if I heard something then I would know that something at least is working :cool:



For some reason a Disco pump is roughly $550, a Defender pump is about $1300. I haven't yet looked, but I suspect the actual pump part may be the same. That being the case you could buy a Disco (cheap) pump/sender, pull it to bits and fit the pump part into the Defender housing/sender unit.
Food for Thought.:cool:

Not sure... one thing I've been told is that the disco pump can be got at and replaced without removing the whole tank like in the defender.

[BigJon]

Bluetongue - Discos have an access hole in the floor of the load space, Defenders don't. Hence the reason for dropping the tank.

[Blknight.aus]

Im not sure it it will work with a TD5 but in a pinch to get a mates tdi200 disco home in place of the normal fuel filter I plumbed a holden external EFI pump with a $5 repco fuel filter before the pump. Took 2 hours to get it set up but it got him the 700 odd k he needed.

I do know that a non genuine holden intank EFI pump is the same specs and dimesnions as the one for the 3.9lV8 on the disco.

Dave

"In a Landrover the other car is your crumple zone."