D4 2.7L EGR and associated junk removal

[gavinwibrow]

Yes, I've read the posts, but unless I've missed a page, I'm still not clear on whether all of the associated bits of an EGR removal for both heads on a 2.7L single turbo can readily be removed without sending the ECUs into a tizzie. I also suspect I have thoroughly confused my go to guru who will actually do the work.
I have a Gap tool and the EGR mod has already been done.

My grand plan is to remove as much superfluous stuff as possible, then do a mild remap to assist with towing. I only hae a couple of weeks to achieve my objective/s.

Can anyone who has actually been there/done that confirm that all of this is readily practical?

And, ideally also point me in the direction of a small gauge that could read EGTs on each bank/exhaust (remembering that I only have 1 turbo (not an SD). I'm happy to flip between banks on a single gauge if a dual is simply not available. The excellent Thermoguard (AU product) would appear to not meet my needs. My mobile phone in instrument mode will meet my other engine etc monitoring needs.

Cheers

[BradC]

My D3 has an egt post turbo and pre-cat which is quite useful. There was also post cat/pre DPF and a post DPF. The post DPF sensor went with the DPF and the pre-DPF turned out to be toast (which likely caused the issues I had with the DPF leading me to gas-axe it out).

The remaining post turbo egt sensor is handy when towing. I'm not really sure I'd get much use from individual per bank sensors over and above that.

[gavinwibrow]

My D3 has an egt post turbo and pre-cat which is quite useful. There was also post cat/pre DPF and a post DPF. The post DPF sensor went with the DPF and the pre-DPF turned out to be toast (which likely caused the issues I had with the DPF leading me to gas-axe it out).

The remaining post turbo egt sensor is handy when towing. I'm not really sure I'd get much use from individual per bank sensors over and above that.

Fair comment re 2 sensors, but I'm a bit paranoid about EGTs, so looking for the best info outcome I can justify.
I'd prefer EGT sensors pre turbo/post exhaust manifold/s as they then I understand provide the highest reading/s, and I won't need to do any adjustments for actual higher temps in my head.

[justinc]

Just get a tdv6 EGR blanking kit DA1112 (Google that number to see it etc) and you can place a probe pre turbo but it will only be on 1 bank, and access to do so is a mission....

[twr7cx]

I don’t have any practical experience in the matter, but everything I’ve read indicates that the later model D3’s and D4’s with the 2.7 TDV6 require more than just blanking off/removing the EGR system - more being either the emulation route or ECU modifications to stop the system getting upset.

I used Bell Auto Service (BAS) to tune our MY12 D4 TDV6 via the IIDTool. I spoke to Pete Bell briefly regarding the EGR disable and he advised he can do it - would require an adjustment to the ECU tune (at an additional fee) and the fitting of the blanking kit (or alternatively removal of the parts). He doesn’t like doing it for road cards and recommends against it so that the vehicles are still MOT compliant (the inspections they have in the UK).

[BradC]

I used Bell Auto Service (BAS) to tune our MY12 D4 TDV6 via the IIDTool. I spoke to Pete Bell briefly regarding the EGR disable and he advised he can do it - would require an adjustment to the ECU tune (at an additional fee) and the fitting of the blanking kit (or alternatively removal of the parts).

I used BAS patches for the DPF and EGR. It has caused an odd behaviour where the accelerator appears to "hang" for short periods after it is released (like when changing gears, you get off the throttle and when you put the clutch in it revs up rather than down). You get used to it and in an auto you probably wouldn't even notice it.

Subjectively there might be a bit less low end oomph but as I couldn't really do an immediate before and after it's hard to really say.

Next time I'm under the bonnet I'll try disconnecting the EGR valves electrical connectors and see if the system spits the dummy. I can see obvious advantages to removing the coolers and valves altogether.

[PerthDisco]

D3 EGR Valve Removal Latest Options?
D3 EGR Valve Removal Latest Options? (https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink'share_fid=669&share_tid=259081&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eaulro%2Ecom%2Fafvb%2Fshowt hread%2Ephp%3Ft%3D259081&share_type=t)

See this post with discussion and schematics.

@discorevy has removed the coolers.

[gavinwibrow]

D3 EGR Valve Removal Latest Options?
D3 EGR Valve Removal Latest Options? (https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink'share_fid=669&share_tid=259081&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eaulro%2Ecom%2Fafvb%2Fshowt hread%2Ephp%3Ft%3D259081&share_type=t)

See this post with discussion and schematics.

@discorevy has removed the coolers.


Discorevy noted that

I left the coolers in place (no coolant or gases inside).

If I understood him properly, DazzaTD5 queried that if LR had gone to the trouble of fitting coolers, perhaps the coolers have a wider role than just cooling exhaust gases. Sounds like potentially a valid point and a possible justification for leaving them well alone?

[PerthDisco]

Nope they cool the exhaust gas from a zillion degrees to just hot before re-entering the engine through the EGR.

They do assist in heating up the coolant which was my concern.

If blanked at manifold and coolant removed they are just ornaments at that stage in any case.

[BradC]

Nope they cool the exhaust gas from a zillion degrees to just hot before re-entering the engine through the EGR.

They do assist in heating up the coolant which was my concern.

I'll wager with the EGRs blocked they'll contribute SFA to the coolant anyway. It's the hot gas flowing through the coolers that will heat the coolant. No flow of hot gas, the only contribution will be static absorption of heat and that'll be bugger all compared to the rated flow.

[DazzaTD5]

My thoughts were to Gavin on the impact of deleting the part of the cooling circuit, of which I am looking and pondering over.
The advantage is deleting a number of coolant hoses, which cant be such a bad thing.

*So do the physical EGR blank, remap out its functionality in the ECU and be done with it.
*Ponder actually removing the EGR assembly.
*I dont see any advantage of just emulating the EGRs.
*Gavin's D4 2.7lt is currently running round with one of the EGRs electrically disconnected (its had some form of remap before he purchased it).

*From my poking with it, to me it seems, there actually is no flow sensor in the EGR assembly, the D4 (and later D3) work it out from the resistance on the EGR motor, as in not enough resistance (egr motor not connected to the egr valve) or too much resistance (due to it being fouled up).

[gavinwibrow]

I'm not going to dob the person in (yet), but I've just heard on the grapevine that it appears one of our gurus has suggested/advised that there is an EGT sensor in the 2.7, (and possibly more in the 3.0/SD) that can be picked up by an OBDII compliant reader.

If that is so, and if the temperature can be picked up by GAP tool or even better RovaCom IQ (ideally in instrument mode?????), then my immediate concern of being able to identify EGT whilst towing my brick can be easily/readily resolved.

Anyone able to confirm or debunk? (ideally particularly reading in instrument mode - I'm waiting for delivery of my RovaCom).

I'm way out of my depth here, but if it is one of those "less accessible" sensors, not easily read, would it be possible to connect it to a stand alone gauge?

[scarry]

I can't find EGR temperature using the GAP tool on my D4 2.7.

As i am not a computer guru,i stand to be corrected?

[DiscoJeffster]

Yes you can read EGT on the tools and the vehicles have EGT sensors. I never bother doing so with my IID. I just drive it.

[discorevy]

*From my poking with it, to me it seems, there actually is no flow sensor in the EGR assembly, the D4 (and later D3) work it out from the resistance on the EGR motor, as in not enough resistance (egr motor not connected to the egr valve) or too much resistance (due to it being fouled up).

my take on this was the measurement between the maf and map sensors being programmed to have preset parameters with egr on and egr off . When egr is stuck open ( or closed ) the ecu detects the wrong parameters and sets fault.

[discorevy]

I'm not going to dob the person in (yet), but I've just heard on the grapevine that it appears one of our gurus has suggested/advised that there is an EGT sensor in the 2.7, (and possibly more in the 3.0/SD) that can be picked up by an OBDII compliant reader.

If that is so, and if the temperature can be picked up by GAP tool or even better RovaCom IQ (ideally in instrument mode?????), then my immediate concern of being able to identify EGT whilst towing my brick can be easily/readily resolved.

Anyone able to confirm or debunk? (ideally particularly reading in instrument mode - I'm waiting for delivery of my RovaCom).

I'm way out of my depth here, but if it is one of those "less accessible" sensors, not easily read, would it be possible to connect it to a stand alone gauge?

The early tdv6 don't have the probe but I suspect the later ones with the probe were more to do with reference measurement for dpf which yours won't have (dpf ), either way the reading will be post turbo ( ie , a lot lower than ideal )
Does yours throw a fault for egr if one is disconnected ?
Just from seat of the pants it didn't feel as if yours had been remapped from when i had a drive but I could be wrong.

[DazzaTD5]

my take on this was the measurement between the maf and map sensors being programmed to have preset parameters with egr on and egr off . When egr is stuck open ( or closed ) the ecu detects the wrong parameters and sets fault.

This could well be the case.

[DiscoJeffster]

This could well be the case.

Which is why I’d have assumed anyone who blocks the EGR on the early models by using a plate has change the air/fuel ratio the engine receives when the EGR should be open.

[gavinwibrow]

The early tdv6 don't have the probe but I suspect the later ones with the probe were more to do with reference measurement for dpf which yours won't have (dpf ), either way the reading will be post turbo ( ie , a lot lower than ideal )
Does yours throw a fault for egr if one is disconnected ?
Just from seat of the pants it didn't feel as if yours had been remapped from when i had a drive but I could be wrong.

Yep the person who advised there should be an EGT probe also noted the reading would be post turbo and therefore lower.

I have been advised it has had the EGR delete remap only (BAS?).

Dazza disconnected the drivers side EGR electrics a few days ago and after a drive home I could detect no apparent impact on performance etc, but as yet my old fingers can't get to the other one to disconnect it to check out any changes that might arise.

[twr7cx]

I'm not going to dob the person in (yet), but I've just heard on the grapevine that it appears one of our gurus has suggested/advised that there is an EGT sensor in the 2.7, (and possibly more in the 3.0/SD) that can be picked up by an OBDII compliant reader.

If that is so, and if the temperature can be picked up by GAP tool or even better RovaCom IQ (ideally in instrument mode?????), then my immediate concern of being able to identify EGT whilst towing my brick can be easily/readily resolved.

Anyone able to confirm or debunk? (ideally particularly reading in instrument mode - I'm waiting for delivery of my RovaCom).

I'm way out of my depth here, but if it is one of those "less accessible" sensors, not easily read, would it be possible to connect it to a stand alone gauge?

Yes, Land Rover list an EGT sensor in the exhaust system for some 2.7 TDV6 models. See location in the parts diagram below:

https://i.ibb.co/YfrW8Yd/Screen-Shot-2021-09-20-at-12-14-18-pm.png (https://ibb.co/YfrW8Yd)

Its quiet far down the system as post cat converter and back side of catalyst and particle filter - which indicates it may only be fitted to DPF vehicles.

[haydent]

FYI: Despite BAS not listing a D4 EGR Mod for the GAP IID on his shop, he can in fact supply one (for the 2.7 only), and you just buy the D3 2.7 version. I imagine this applies to the ECU remap too, but this would need confirming.