dual mass flywheel.. how loose is to loose?

[Nomad9]

Hi There,
Got a bit bored so I decided to rip the engine out of my 1999 TD5 Deefer, fix some oil leaks which includes the rear main hence the engine out. Overall the engine looks ok however the dual mass flywheel has what it appears to be its usual looseness, I was just wondering how loose is to loose. I can rock the dual mass bit backwards and forwards by hand fairly easily, is that to loose?

I'm considering fitting a solid flywheel, this comes with a noisier gearbox apparently, I've fitted a solid flywheel in the past and it didn't make that much difference to the noise.

Any constructive comments welcomed.

Cheers Marty

[woko]

I fitted a solid flywheel to a td5 recently. It is definitely noisier. Mainly when in neutral idling. It chatters. Could reshim the gearbox to help

[Gillie]

Everyone I have spoken to about fitting a solid flywheel to a Td5 has said if you do it, you will soon pull it out and go back to dual mass. If this is true than the cheaper cost of fitting the solid flywheel is a false economy.

From memory I think there is mention of vibrations. been a few years since I replaced mine.
cheers
Gillie

[Colmoore]

Everyone I have spoken to about fitting a solid flywheel to a Td5 has said if you do it, you will soon pull it out and go back to dual mass. If this is true than the cheaper cost of fitting the solid flywheel is a false economy.

From memory I think there is mention of vibrations. been a few years since I replaced mine.
cheers
Gillie

How many people have you spoken to and what were the reasons?
I’m seriously considering the switch on my 130 as the clutch is slipping and she’s just ticked over 200,000kms.
Everyone I’ve spoken to swears by the single mass change over, mechanics included.

I don’t care about noise at all, just reliability, simplicity and cost.
The info on AULRO is mostly a bit old afaics and there’s one bloke who had to rebuild a gearbox soon after converting, but that doesn’t mean failure was caused by flywheel.
I’m interested in real experiences from defender owners

Cheers
Col

[Blknight.aus]

My adivice is to stay with the dual mass unless you're converting to auto.

[W&KO]

Everyone I have spoken to about fitting a solid flywheel to a Td5 has said if you do it, you will soon pull it out and go back to dual mass. If this is true than the cheaper cost of fitting the solid flywheel is a false economy.

From memory I think there is mention of vibrations. been a few years since I replaced mine.
cheers
Gillie

My mechanic says switching to solid is more expensive first up, the next clutch change is cheaper.

I’m undecided which way I’ll go, leaning towards sticking with dual mass

There seems to be different options on the ‘rattle’ when running solid.

[200defenda]

Ive driven quite a few earlier bt50s and rangers fitted with solid flywheels from dual mass on clutch changes, and you can notice more gear noise while going through the gear range with the solid flywheel. I would personally stick with whats factory fitted, how often are you planning on having to change clutchs, to warrant fitting a single mass flywheel conversion anyway.

[scarry]

If it has a dual mass from factory,its the only way to go,unless you want issues.

[Gillie]

I honestly can’t remember it was a few years ago. I don’t understand why it is dearer to change over as the solid ones were a lot cheaper. When I changed my clutch I was warned that if I went solid I would be changing it back as the vibrations would drive me mad. It wasn’t a job I wanted to do twice so I went like for like. They are an absolute work of art. This advice was from an independent landrover mechanic. I’d reckon blacknight would be on the money and probably done a few more of these than most. If I was to do it again I would pay attention to the play in the transfer case and sort that out whilst I was there. Not a particularly hard job but time consuming and my god it was greasy!

[Max Headroom 2.3m]

I stuck with the dual mass flywheel as I figured the engineers at Land Rover, although they have their short comings :bat:, didn’t put in an expensive dual mass for the fun of it. For the clutch I went for a L.O.F Power Spec Clutch Kit which includes an Extreme Spec release bearing. I haven’t installed it yet but it looks quality stuff and comes with all you need except flywheel bolts.

To add a bit of info to the OP, I have just pulled out my son’s TD5 clutch with 194K on the clock and compared it to a new one as follows:

Dual mass flywheel movement/rotation at circumference: old = 4.5mm new = 0 mm (firm)
Pressure plate finger thickness at release bearing: old = 2.3mm new = 3.2mm
Clutch plate friction material above rivets: old = 1.7mm (grooves still visible) new = 2.0mm
Release bearing had a lot of clearance
Spigot bearing was significantly worn
I think the clutch itself would have been serviceable for at least another 40k and the dual mass wasn’t noticeably noisy… at least not over all the other defender noises [bigwhistle].

[Max Headroom 2.3m]

Just to add another data point to this thread, I am currently changing the clutch on another TD5 that has got 250K on the clock (definitely original clutch) and replacing it with another L.O.F Power Spec Clutch Kit including dual mass flywheel and Extreme Spec release bearing. Comparisons as follows:

Dual mass flywheel movement/rotation at circumference: old = 2.5mm new = 0 mm (firm). The old DMF was definitely loose and getting a little noisy on take-up but nothing serious. There was less movement than the clutch change in my previous post above.
Pressure plate finger thickness at release bearing: old = 1.9mm new = 3.2mm
Clutch plate friction material above rivets: old = 1.5mm (grooves just visible) new = 2.0mm
Release bearing was still smooth with no noise but the finger contact face was very shiny and possibly quite worn
Spigot bearing was significantly worn and squealing
Not sure what would let go first if I drove it into the ground. My guess is the pressure plate finger tips would let go before the dual mass flywheel did but it would depend on how hard you drop the clutch.