D4 Battery Replacement

[rhinosm]

Hi
I know it has been a topic of discussion,

My battery is on last legs, 3.5 yrs old.
Thought I'd check on what's the current school of thought for replacement?

Thanks

Vin

[josh.huber]

Supercharge all the way!! The warranty is like 36 months or 40 can't remember

[Eric SDV6SE]

Seems like that's pretty much the lifetime for car batteries these days. Not a bad run

[rhinosm]

Is this the one from Supercharge?

[kenl]

I like my supercharge batteries and use them for most of my stuff, but I'm now of the opinion that my D4 NEEDS an AGM battery as the main battery, anything else just plays up.

For clarity, I'm more interested an item being reliable than the warranty that may be offered.

[kelvo]

When mine needs replacement I’ll probably go with a Super Start SS88Ti SS88Ti High Performance AGM Stop Start Battery (https://superstart.com.au/ss88ti-high-performance-agm-stop-start-battery.html) more expensive than the Supercharge battery, but it comes with a 42 month warranty, is AGM, and has higher CCA and reserve capacity.

[Turtle60]

Is this the one from Supercharge?

Rhinosm that is not the one. You are looking for 350l x 175w x 190h. A din98 is the type I think.

Pretty sure that is to high to fit

[Eric SDV6SE]

I like my supercharge batteries and use them for most of my stuff, but I'm now of the opinion that my D4 NEEDS an AGM battery as the main battery, anything else just plays up.

For clarity, I'm more interested an item being reliable than the warranty that may be offered.
If anyone’s near Rockingham WA, there’s a special on Supercharge 4WD batteries down at Dixon’s Road at the Bridgestone tyre place opposite the Murdoch Uni campus. I saw the display sign there last night.

[josh.huber]

Part Number is MF88H

[kero]

Hi
I know it has been a topic of discussion,

My battery is on last legs, 3.5 yrs old.
Thought I'd check on what's the current school of thought for replacement?

Thanks

Vin
Have a look at Delkor battery AGM Din88H

[rhinosm]

When mine needs replacement I’ll probably go with a Super Start SS88Ti SS88Ti High Performance AGM Stop Start Battery (https://superstart.com.au/ss88ti-high-performance-agm-stop-start-battery.html) more expensive than the Supercharge battery, but it comes with a 42 month warranty, is AGM, and has higher CCA and reserve capacity.
Their Website says 24 mth warranty. Typo?

[dirvine]

I replaced mine with an Exide Extreme XN70ZZMF Battery. Cost is about $200 on Ebay if you live in Melbourne. Whilst I look at the specs one of them I was told tells a lot more about a battery than anything else. And that is its weight. Cheaper batteries can match the more expensive but because of less weight there is often less capacity.Mind you I know nothing about this claim but just for instance the batteries mentioned above weigh 22.0kg My extreeme battery weighs 23.8kg. Also has a good warranty.

[kelvo]

Their Website says 24 mth warranty. Typo?

That’s confusing. I’ve just checked their warranty conditions Warranty Guide (https://superstart.com.au/warranty-guide) and in a starter battery application the SSB i-Start AGM has 36 month warranty. This reduces to 24 months if used in a vehicle with stop-start. It looks like they are using an old photo indicating a 42 month warranty.

[kelvo]

I replaced mine with an Exide Extreme XN70ZZMF Battery. Cost is about $200 on Ebay if you live in Melbourne. Whilst I look at the specs one of them I was told tells a lot more about a battery than anything else. And that is its weight. Cheaper batteries can match the more expensive but because of less weight there is often less capacity.Mind you I know nothing about this claim but just for instance the batteries mentioned above weigh 22.0kg My extreeme battery weighs 23.8kg. Also has a good warranty.

The Super Start SS88Ti weighs 26.5Kg [bigwhistle]

[dirvine]

The Super Start SS88Ti weighs 26.5Kg [bigwhistle]
I was referring to post No 4. 22.2Kg

[rhinosm]

Well battery finally died today, on a Sunday.
Managed to get Supercharge from Autobarn.
Straight in and off and running.
Thanks for help.

[josh.huber]

Those ssb specs are good, yes the weight cuts through all the bull **** when it comes to a battery. The ssb is heavier then the supercharge,

[josh.huber]

Those ssb specs are good, yes the weight cuts through all the bull **** when it comes to a battery. The ssb is heavier then the supercharge,

[441]

I’ve just replaced mine with another Varta H3 on the advise of the chap at Battery World. He advised against AGM. He said they weren’t as tolerant to heat.

[scarry]

I’ve just replaced mine with another Varta H3 on the advise of the chap at Battery World. He advised against AGM. He said they weren’t as tolerant to heat.

The 2.7 D3/4 were not originally designed for AGM,have no BMS,although can be fitted with AGM batteries.Mine had one fitted by dealer under warranty.It lasted 4.5 yrs.

The D4 3.0l was designed for AGM,and has the BMS,variable voltage alternator,etc.

[Melbourne Park]

I need a starting battery ASAP for my 2014 D4.

I sometimes tow a off road van (1840 kg up to 2500kg with water etc.). The van has two 252 w solar panels and two 120 AG AGM batteries. Due to the electronics in the van, getting a proper charge to Lithiums batteries was not possible. Also I was not able to easily squeeze in bigger deep cycle batteries, plus the sweet spot for caravan deep cycle batteries is either 105 AH or 120 AH. In most cases ... but I read a l ot of stats on batteries. Their characteristics vary a lot. Some take charge quicker (Lithium iron by far quicker, then AGM, Gel is slowest of typical lead acid batteries but for deep cycle they are able to take much more of their capacity with less van use due to slower charging but more critically they cost a lot more than AGMs), some are sensitive to heat (most AGM warranties are qualified not to in the engine bay), and the stats on their capacity is often marketing claims than reality, plus the construction materials vary a lot. Also retailers get differing wholesale prices on batteries, typically with deals or ownership which steers them to sell limited brands in order to be competitive. Plus the wholesalers vary the prices with specials etc IMO and hence one has to be lucky with a start battery good buy if one decides on one particular battery.

The statement made about weight is correct. It points to the overall capacity of the battery. However deep cycle batteries are quite different to the requirements for high short term power for a starting battery. The AGM that does both though is still the cylindrical Optima batteries. Interestingly the Optima batteries understate their capacity - one has to read their stats to realise their capacity in AH is much greater than they claim. One needs to measure them on the weight basis. Their feature though is that due to the varying thickness of their wound cylindrical AGM design, they can crank well, but they can also tolerate lots of discharge. A decade or so ago they were used in electric vehicle development, although a major reason for that was they can re-charge very quickly.

The plate design of AGM with fibreglass holding the acid, does mean that with a thin layers of glass heat might cause an AGM to vent through its valve some gas, and hence, many AGMs are not suitable for engine bay use. I think that if an AGM has thicker glass then that would make it less likely to be effected by heat ... but the warranty would be the key I guess.

For me, I will look at good AGM brand that will work in the hot engine bay (warranty should indicate that), and also its tolerance for running my fridge in the back (and I have a 2nd battery already which is a yellow top Optima).

My thinking at the moment is that if I go for an AGM, because the fibreglass holds the battery plates firmly and hence they handle rough roads better - but it must be heat tolerant. Evidently the case material effects that heat issue to. Due to the 2nd battery which can also assist in cranking the battery then I am not so dependent IMO on cranking power. A lot of top AGMs seem now designed for restarting motors when one stops the vehicle, which my 2014 D4 doesn't suffer from. I would have liked to get another yellow top (as one is the 2nd battery) - bbut the height for the D4 compartment is too low for a decent sized Optima yellow top. Darn. I do wonder if a Lithium might do the job too.

Incidentally for my deep cycles AGMs for the van I bought two Full River batteries 120 AHs, and while most 120AH batteries weighed 32 or so kg, the Full Rivers weighed 36.5 kg although I have not weighed them! It's one thing to claim 36.5 kg or whatever - with marketing these days its best to actually weigh them. As is its best not to trust many of the claims battery makers make. And the construction quality, the materials used, the purity of the lead used, the design of the bridges between the plates - those things are all compromised if a maker is chasing price. The Full Rivers cost more but are well made, and many are sold in Australia which means they are well priced in Australia and worth their extra cost IMO.

My wife's grandfather worked at Varta - but they seem expensive al right!! The Delkor LN5 though seems a very good fit for the space available.

[kero]

I need a starting battery ASAP for my 2014 D4.

I sometimes tow a off road van (1840 kg up to 2500kg with water etc.). The van has two 252 w solar panels and two 120 AG AGM batteries. Due to the electronics in the van, getting a proper charge to Lithiums batteries was not possible. Also I was not able to easily squeeze in bigger deep cycle batteries, plus the sweet spot for caravan deep cycle batteries is either 105 AH or 120 AH. In most cases ... but I read a l ot of stats on batteries. Their characteristics vary a lot. Some take charge quicker (Lithium iron by far quicker, then AGM, Gel is slowest of typical lead acid batteries but for deep cycle they are able to take much more of their capacity with less van use due to slower charging but more critically they cost a lot more than AGMs), some are sensitive to heat (most AGM warranties are qualified not to in the engine bay), and the stats on their capacity is often marketing claims than reality, plus the construction materials vary a lot. Also retailers get differing wholesale prices on batteries, typically with deals or ownership which steers them to sell limited brands in order to be competitive. Plus the wholesalers vary the prices with specials etc IMO and hence one has to be lucky with a start battery good buy if one decides on one particular battery.

The statement made about weight is correct. It points to the overall capacity of the battery. However deep cycle batteries are quite different to the requirements for high short term power for a starting battery. The AGM that does both though is still the cylindrical Optima batteries. Interestingly the Optima batteries understate their capacity - one has to read their stats to realise their capacity in AH is much greater than they claim. One needs to measure them on the weight basis. Their feature though is that due to the varying thickness of their wound cylindrical AGM design, they can crank well, but they can also tolerate lots of discharge. A decade or so ago they were used in electric vehicle development, although a major reason for that was they can re-charge very quickly.

The plate design of AGM with fibreglass holding the acid, does mean that with a thin layers of glass heat might cause an AGM to vent through its valve some gas, and hence, many AGMs are not suitable for engine bay use. I think that if an AGM has thicker glass then that would make it less likely to be effected by heat ... but the warranty would be the key I guess.

For me, I will look at good AGM brand that will work in the hot engine bay (warranty should indicate that), and also its tolerance for running my fridge in the back (and I have a 2nd battery already which is a yellow top Optima).

My thinking at the moment is that if I go for an AGM, because the fibreglass holds the battery plates firmly and hence they handle rough roads better - but it must be heat tolerant. Evidently the case material effects that heat issue to. Due to the 2nd battery which can also assist in cranking the battery then I am not so dependent IMO on cranking power. A lot of top AGMs seem now designed for restarting motors when one stops the vehicle, which my 2014 D4 doesn't suffer from. I would have liked to get another yellow top (as one is the 2nd battery) - bbut the height for the D4 compartment is too low for a decent sized Optima yellow top. Darn. I do wonder if a Lithium might do the job too.

Incidentally for my deep cycles AGMs for the van I bought two Full River batteries 120 AHs, and while most 120AH batteries weighed 32 or so kg, the Full Rivers weighed 36.5 kg although I have not weighed them! It's one thing to claim 36.5 kg or whatever - with marketing these days its best to actually weigh them. As is its best not to trust many of the claims battery makers make. And the construction quality, the materials used, the purity of the lead used, the design of the bridges between the plates - those things are all compromised if a maker is chasing price. The Full Rivers cost more but are well made, and many are sold in Australia which means they are well priced in Australia and worth their extra cost IMO.

My wife's grandfather worked at Varta - but they seem expensive al right!! The Delkor LN5 though seems a very good fit for the space available.
I have the Delkor fitted about 4 months ago for $350 with the reset

[Markus1]

""""Interestingly the Optima batteries understate their capacity - one has to read their stats to realise their capacity in AH is much greater than they claim. """"

This is news to me....any explanation?

[Melbourne Park]

""""Interestingly the Optima batteries understate their capacity - one has to read their stats to realise their capacity in AH is much greater than they claim. """"

This is news to me....any explanation?

I haven't done the stats for years!! But yes, they are rated differently. As a clue, check their weight - they are much heavier than their rated capacity. Of course AGMs are different depending on their design - ie a deep cycle's CCA for a deep cycle is much lower than the amp hours although that is not the case with the Optima. I think because the top windings of the lead plates are thinner than further into the cylinder of windings. Hence they can through out a good CCA and still have OK deep cycle performance. But for vans etc. people buy purely deep cycle batteries.

And design and quality means that some deep cycle AGMs last much longer than others due their promises about same quality and longevity being only words.

I am about to go away and am busy, but I'll see if I can dig out the data on the Optimas when i get back..

Curiously with the Optima, they can take a 50 Amp 13+ volt input I think ... so they are quite different.

[Melbourne Park]

I have the Delkor fitted about 4 months ago for $350 with the reset

Every Battery quoted me over $500 for one ... where did you buy yours? That sounds a good deal.

I can't find the weight of the Delkor or the Varta either ... Delkor is Korean but ultimately owned by Johnson ... Varta are Varta and German although I don't know for sure that they are made in Germany itself. They likely are still owned by the Quandt family who also own BMW. Sometimes privately owned can result in good value but the Vartas sure aren't cheap. Aus still make batteries despite our electricity prices but we don't make AGMs.

[kero]

Every Battery quoted me over $500 for one ... where did you buy yours? That sounds a good deal.

I can't find the weight of the Delkor or the Varta either ... Delkor is Korean but ultimately owned by Johnson ... Varta are Varta and German although I don't know for sure that they are made in Germany itself. They likely are still owned by the Quandt family who also own BMW. Sometimes privately owned can result in good value but the Vartas sure aren't cheap. Aus still make batteries despite our electricity prices but we don't make AGMs.
I was working in Parkes at the time just one of the auto elec. The local dealer for Delkor the only place in town
Kero

[Kandy]

Under 3 years due to lack of use original battery gone, RACQ called replaced battery with theirs (under warranty) he fitted my Ctech adaptor for charging while sitting around, Im not fussing over what types but looking at keeping it charged while not in use. Happy with that.

[josh.huber]

You can get a mf88h supercharge off the shelf at Auto barn for under 300. Huge warranty. I've abused mine, it just laughs at me. Lithium do not belong in an engine bay. They all state that.

[Melbourne Park]

You can get a mf88h supercharge off the shelf at Auto barn for under 300. Huge warranty. I've abused mine, it just laughs at me. Lithium do not belong in an engine bay. They all state that.

Thanks Guys. Yep that calcium should be available for under $300 including a delivery.

Batterystop in Campbellfield quoted me $380 for the Delkor 'AGM LN5 - Delkor LN5 Auto BatterySpecificationsm and I got a local to me price from another place the same (after he called back):
• CCA : 900
• Length: 352
• Width: 175
• Height: 190
Which is the right size and as heavy as anything that fits in the space although I have now forgotten where I got that weight from. It seems in start batteries their weight is not offered easily. I guess marketers want the battery weight kept secret. We know why. Its commonly conveyed in deep cycles. But also - are the weight stats accurate?

I'd rather an AGM if it can handle the heat as an AGM is better at taking bumps.

A German educated mechanic friend said the Vartas seem to last forever and he is now a manager at a very large trucking company, but at $550 the AGM Varta doesn't really seem to make sense ...

[Tombie]

Bosch AGM... about $470 and will last 5+ years without a problem.

Lower end gear will last 2-3 years on average.

[LRD414]

Bosch AGM... about $470 and will last 5+ years without a problem.
Tombie, I thought you had a Varta?

Cheers,
Scott

[Tombie]

Tombie, I thought you had a Varta?

Cheers,
Scott

Bosch to replace a faulty Odyssey, and SSB AGMs for the 2 Aux.

Mrs Tombie has 2xD34M in the 90

The camper has a couple of Fusion units.


The D2 had a Varta.

[Melbourne Park]

Bosch AGM... about $470 and will last 5+ years without a problem.

Lower end gear will last 2-3 years on average.

I rang Costco as they used to sell Bosch. No longer. I even looked up Bosch's website and couldn't find a retailer. They have a large operation in Melbourne, and should still be large automotive suppliers (although the car industry has now gone) except for the truck industry and who makes trailers and some who convert US light trucks / Utes.

Where should I look to get Bosch in Melbourne?

Oh and my camper has two new Fullriver 120 AH AGMs and I am very happy with them. I even considered chrystal lead acid batteries, and Lithium for the van but its electronics were not comparable with Lithium.

China can make good batteries as the Fullrivers show. But knowing if a battery from China or Korea is good, well, its not so easy.

[StewG]

My D4 MY2013 is in need of a new cranking battery. Last November at the 176k service the LR agent told me the battery failed their test and did I want it replaced? Having some Scottish ancestry, I said no, I'll wait. Well the cranking over winter has been getting slower and I assume being boosted by the Traxide DBS. So, I have what I assume is the original battery or an OEM replacement. It is an Exide (made in Italy) CPLA-10655-CA 12V 90Ah 850A(EN) AGM/VLRA/MF with the Jaguar and Land Rover logos on it.
Exide is sold by Beaurepaire and their website says that the battery for my LR SDV6 HSE is XDIN88MF or DIN88MF or EN70ZZMF. The XDIN88MF is advertised at $249. My only issue is that the web site photo does not look like my battery. My local Beaurepaire shop is only a short walk away, so I went and looked at the lesser DIN88MF ($190) and its size and configuration matched my memory of the one under the bonnet. They have promised to get one in for me next week. So problem solved. Meanwhile, my solar charger is doing its best to get the battery back up to usable status.

[StewG]

Well I bought the XDIN88MF from Beaurepaires today and checked in the store that it was the same shape and size as the original. When I got it home I read all the labels and notice that it is not an AGM but a lead/acid battery - liquid filled! The only other sign of acid was a small viewing window, i.e. no removable plugs or anything as old hat as that... There is also a caution in the fine print that the warranty is void if used in a stop/start vehicle. My D4 is not the latest, so that is not an issue, but I wonder about the ramifications of an acid battery vs an AGM in the D4 if it is designed to run on an AGM battery. I'm also wondering if the battery monitoring system has to be changed or reset to deal with the new battery. Some other posts suggest that the BMS has to be reset. I don't have the tool to do that. Should I get a dealer or independent to do that?

[scarry]

Well I bought the XDIN88MF from Beaurepaires today and checked in the store that it was the same shape and size as the original. When I got it home I read all the labels and notice that it is not an AGM but a lead/acid battery - liquid filled! The only other sign of acid was a small viewing window, i.e. no removable plugs or anything as old hat as that... There is also a caution in the fine print that the warranty is void if used in a stop/start vehicle. My D4 is not the latest, so that is not an issue, but I wonder about the ramifications of an acid battery vs an AGM in the D4 if it is designed to run on an AGM battery. I'm also wondering if the battery monitoring system has to be changed or reset to deal with the new battery. Some other posts suggest that the BMS has to be reset. I don't have the tool to do that. Should I get a dealer or independent to do that?

That model vehicle has the BMS,and it is designed for an AGM battery,i wouldn't use anything else.

Whether you can change a setting for the different type of battery,with a GAP tool, i don't know.

But using a new AGM battery,yes, the BMS has to be reset.

[PeterJ]

When mine needs replacement I’ll probably go with a Super Start SS88Ti SS88Ti High Performance AGM Stop Start Battery (https://superstart.com.au/ss88ti-high-performance-agm-stop-start-battery.html) more expensive than the Supercharge battery, but it comes with a 42 month warranty, is AGM, and has higher CCA and reserve capacity.

+ 1 for the SS88Ti, got one 12 mths ago, not a worry, that battery, a traxide unit and yellow top runs two fridges in the car, the 60Lit set as a freezer no problems.

Peter

[StewG]

"That model vehicle has the BMS,and it is designed for an AGM battery,i wouldn't use anything else.

Whether you can change a setting for the different type of battery,with a GAP tool, i don't know.

But using a new AGM battery,yes, the BMS has to be reset."

My D4 is due for a service soon so I'll get the BMS checked then. Fitting the battery was easy enough, but the XDIN88MF new one was slightly (about 20 mm) lower that the original battery and I had to fit tubed spacers above the holding bracket so that the bolts would tighten down properly. In every other respect, the new battery looked the same as the old one. The battery was disconnected for about an hour (while I made spacers and got interruptions) so when everything was reconnected and working ok, I noticed that the windows still auto open but, no longer auto close when the up button is pushed. The up button must be held to close the windows. It must be a setting that went back to default. I haven't noticed any other detrimental effects. However, the engine starts quicker and the DBS holds up much better; as one would expect with a new battery.
I contemplated returning the battery when I discovered that it was a wet cell rather than AGM, but it has a 3 year warranty (42 months if you agree to be spammed) so that should be ok for the price - I'll take the risk. I recall doing a half lap around oz fifty years ago with a much smaller wet cell battery in a Holden and that survived ok - the roads were worse then than they are these days.

[Tombie]

It’s the energy delivery and charge characteristics that will see you undone keeping that battery.

It’s possibly going to charge higher and boil off the acid.
It will also struggle to charge as quick (it won’t charge as quick).

Do you really want the risk? That battery also obviously being smaller has a lower energy capacity.

You’ve done no favours.

[scarry]

"
I'll take the risk. I recall doing a half lap around oz fifty years ago with a much smaller wet cell battery in a Holden and that survived ok - the roads were worse then than they are these days.

There is absolutely no comparison with a 50yr old Holden with not one ECU(apart from the AM radio),and an alternator of around 55 amps,and a modern vehicle with a 180A alternater and about 35 or 40 ECU's,that has a charging system designed for an AGM battery.

These LR's vehicles are pretty hard on batteries.

Anyway,see how you go,we can only advise.

[Eric SDV6SE]

These LR's vehicles are pretty hard on batteries.

Anyway,see how you go,we can only advise.

MY11 D4, second owner, coming up to 5years for me, 193,500km and on its second battery. I dont see that as being hard on batteries at all. Some on here are still on the original batteries.

Just make sure you get the right one for the job...

[scarry]

MY11 D4, second owner, coming up to 5years for me, 193,500km and on its second battery. I dont see that as being hard on batteries at all. Some on here are still on the original batteries.

Just make sure you get the right one for the job...

Mine is on its third.MY12.

First was changed at 12 months under warranty,second lasted 4.5 yrs.

Not only do you need the correct battery,it also needs to be looked after.

That is making sure it is kept fully charged at all times.

Vehicles(D3/4),or for that matter any modern vehicle, that sits around or does small runs needs the battery charged regularly,or the life of the battery is compromised.

My Indi mentioned that 3 yrs or more for a battery in a D3/4 is above average life.

[Tombie]

MY11 D4, second owner, coming up to 5years for me, 193,500km and on its second battery. I dont see that as being hard on batteries at all. Some on here are still on the original batteries.

Just make sure you get the right one for the job...

Long trips constantly do it good...

[Banksy]

I've just replaced my OEM battery (lost a cell) with a Supercharge MF88HSS AGM VLRA battery - $325 from Moorabbin Battery Centre.
Followed the changeover procedure in the manual, no issues.
The Disco is much happier, so I'll see how it goes and update as to the lifetime (24 months warranty).