L322 or L320?

[AlexRS4]

I'm sure this question has been asked a ton of times! I'm looking at a used RR and tossing up between a RRS and FFRR. Hoping you experts can help me!

I am looking at doing a long 10,000km+ trip around the west half of Australia (Adelaide>Darwin>Broome>Perth>Adelaide) early next year and I'd rather not break down midway through! It won't be super 4wdy (i.e. not like deep into the Kimberley with extended periods on rutted roads - I hope) but there will be some dirt track work for sure, and I may be on roads that are miles from anyone.

My criteria:
- I don't need the FFRR size, the RRS size would be better for me realistically
- I am looking for a comfy ride, but ideally not a wallowy one - I don't want a boat. Basically, I don't want to wince at potholes on South Road (Adelaide) anymore. My lowered Audi RS4 on coilovers is tedious to put it mildly. Looking for something that glides over them.
- For the reason above - I'll be looking at wheels with a decent sidewall - though don't mind buying new wheels if I need to (no interest in 22" rims...)
- I much prefer the look and general lushness of the FFRR interior I have to be honest
- I do want a capable off-roader for occasional hikes / overnight backpacking / camping trips

My car history:
- I've mostly had performance cars but I'm tired of living with low ride height and stiff suspension
- I'm used to high maintenance/running costs
- I've owned a 100 series turbo diesel, so I'm used to big cars too. Things I didn't like about the L100: wallowy ride, slow and if I'm blunt, the car was boooooring. Toyotas are so bland. Things I did like: felt solid as a rock (at 300,000km it felt like it did at 80,000km), hugely capable at everything, safe in the bush as parts are everywhere, fuel economy decent (12L/100) and range was fantastic (1000km from 2 tanks).

Planned spend is around $35k. Can go higher but I'm trying to justify buying a classic 911 to the wife and it means spending less on a DD...

It will be a lease car, so I'd go for a $26k 2008ish FFRR TDV8 but they are too old for leasing, needs to be 2010 onwards. Current lead is a 2010ish FFRR TDV8, but with the criteria above would I be better off with a RRS?

Considered a 200 series Sahara but next to a FFRR of the same year, it looks like a Camry (and it's twice the cost!). Looked at the Lexus as well and that also made me want to die inside if I had to live with one. Considered an X5 but I want to do some offroading.

I'll be looking for an extended warranty (!) so if anyone has had a good experience with any warranty companies, let me know!

[Meccles]

I’ve got re mapped L320 2012 SDV6 and love it. Also owned 100series cruiser (8 years) and got bored. Just two of us. I’ve owned two TDV8’s one fantastic the other 2010 forgettable. Seems second gen TDV8 May be more prone to Land Rover ituis. No real issues with SDV6. The other thing TDV8 have active suspension/ roll bars which give definitely a bit better handling but come at much greater cost if there’s a problem. Just saying [emoji3166]

[AlexRS4]

What were the specs/ages of the forgettable vs. fantastic TDV8s?

[Meccles]

One a 2008 with most of fruit but lacking things like memory seats and with earlier dash. But reliable good drive and quick. Second all the fruit lovely car to drive late 2009 looked the goods. Never failed driving but I’m legally not allowed to say more

[desertrover]

Probably had slightly different experiences with the L320's. Owned a 2008 and 2010, both TDV8's with ECU remap EGR blank. Older one had a turbo fail but in fairness that was at well over 200,000kms of pretty hard work. 2010 was a much more refined car as you would expect and it never missed a beat. Since the 320's I have had a L322 with a remapped 4.4 and now driving an SDV8 L405.
For what you are chasing I would say later model 320 TDV8 would work- as stated above the biggest difference is the suspension. The V8 is a much more planted car and body roll is greatly reduced compared to the standard suspension. Older model has 4 pot brembo brakes and they went back to the LR callipers on the 2010 TDV8 variant. I fitted the newer 6 pot brembo's to mine as the brakes felt a bit weak when dodging kangaroos after being used to the earlier model. Due to the brake package I stuck with the 20" rims and have used only the Cooper Zeon LTZ tyres with good results. Tyres are always a personal choice, and while I have had good results with them you will always hear vastly different reviews- 19" LTZ's for example seem to get a bad rap. I averaged around 50,000kms per set and that is on pretty bad dirt and gravel combined with long highway trips. Smaller callipers will give you a few more options with wheels / tyres but I can't help much there. Biggest thing with the engines is to keep the services up. You could probably say they are a bit fragile when comparing to the Toyota as they push some great power and torque from it. We also had a LC200 Sahara and yes, you could say it would wallow and the engine always felt restricted.
L322 was another step up from the 320 in equipment and comfort. Better seating position, more gadgets, more room, plus the 4.4 and 8 speed makes a huge difference to drivability. The suspension definitely felt softer and it gets slightly more body roll than the 320 that is noticeable on long trips. In some ways after doing so many kms in the 320's I probably expected a bit more than the 322 delivered (for the cost). Since then I went to the L405 and the ride seems to be somewhere between the 320 and 322, softer but less body roll- can't fault it yet.

[AlexRS4]

Thanks desertrover.
Did you find the L322 a bit wallowy at all compared to the L200?
The ride will probably be what swings me. I'm primarily concerned either the L322 will be wallowy or the L320 will be too firm.
Looking at carsales I may need to stretch to $40-45k or so for a good L322 which is not a big deal but I will try to negotiate I think.

[desertrover]

L322 (with the DSC) was a better ride than the Sahara (less wallow)

[Graeme]

I suspect that should have been CVDs - constantly variable dampers.

[desertrover]

Sorry Graeme- got my acronyms mixed up :-)

[AlexRS4]

Is there a sweet spot in terms of reliability for the L322? Is the latest model 3.6 TDV8 the top, or is the 4.4 with the ZF 8 speed better?

[rar110]

I think most, if not everyone, agrees the 4.4 with ZF 8 speed is better.

I have the 3.6 L322 MY08 and it’s been a great car, now with 290k km. I’ve done lots of big drives in it. Fantastic for chewing up the kms.

For the price the MY10 L320 tdv8 3.6 would be hard to beat with updated styling.

But my next FFRR will be a L405 (not for years).

[2nd Rower]

I had a 2008 L320 (2.7 TDV6) from new for three years and have now owned a L322 2010 3.6 TDV8 for the last 3 years. I was also loaned a pre-facelift 2009 L320 TDV8 for a few weeks, then a brand new just launched facelift 3.0 L320 for a week or so when my 2.7 L320 was having warranty work done back in the day, and my view is you need to drive both L322 and L320 to be sure which you personally prefer as they are almost chalk and cheese.

In my opinion you can go for an early TDV8 L320 or 2010 facelift TDV8 - they didn't do the TDV8 in the 2011 (I wouldn't go for either the 2.7 or 3.0), but the big difference in my view regardless of engine is the wheelbase and construct - The L320 being a shorter D3/D4 Body on Chassis architecture, and the L322 being Monocoque. So they are different in the way they drive, but mostly because of the wheelbase.

I personally find the L322 more than 'sporty' enough for me, but not too 'twitchy' on the longer drives, and therefore wouldn't go back to a L320. Having also owned many European Coupe's/sports cars (my L320 2.7 was my first 4 door car in 15 years) - its the best daily driver I've had.

I would personally recommend a 2010 3.6 TDV8 as a minimum for the updated interior, and 'toys' - and if you do go this path try and get the Luxury if not AB so you also get the heated/cooled seats. (you also only get heated seats on the higher spec L320's AFAIK). If you get the L322 4.4 TDV8, you can only have 19" or 20" wheels. With the 3.6 you can buy 18" Compomotive wheels to give you extra sidewall obviously! (I'm still on 20's but looking to move to 18" for offroading/camping). If you don't need the 18's and can stretch $'s I think the 4.4 TDV8 L322 Luxury or Autobiography is the car to have IMHO.

Just my opinions and hope they help in someway.

[AlexRS4]

Thanks guys really helpful! Looks like 4.4 TDV8 L322 is the go to be honest. If I'm going to buy a 4x4, I don't need it to be sporty.

I've done some more maths and research. In my financial situation, Novated Lease makes the most sense. So I'm looking for 2010 onwards (lease reasons for tax) - leading candidate is now a 2011/2012 L322 TDV8 - preferably an AB but at a minimum, a car with rear reclining seats, HK sound system, heated and cooled seats and preferably with 19 or 20" wheels.

My close second is a F80 BMW M3. Wildly different vehicles and a 20-30k price difference! For that price I could get an L405! Correct, but the M3 won't depreciate as much and is very reliable.

L322 makes sense for me if it's cheaper, old enough to have taken the bulk of the depreciation hit and a mature enough model to be reliable - which I read they are in the later years.

Unfortunately there's no perfect vehicle. Why can't they make a car that is a comfortable tourer, decent off-roader as well as an overpowered RWD sports sedan??

I'm going to need to test drive both to decide. Shame the L322 TDV8s are hard to find at dealers in SA.

-Edit- Foolishly started looking at L405s after writing this.

[Graeme]

My AB doesn't have rear reclining seats. Have you spotted any L322s with the seats?

[AlexRS4]

Yes there are plenty around. Perhaps it was an option on ABs too.

[Graeme]

Yes, it was an option especially on the AB having bespoke options but I didn't spot any in my hunt, not that I was looking for it.

The MY11/12 are no slouches in the handling dept due to the CVDs which stiffen further on bends when DSC is "disabled".

[AlexRS4]

So after further conversation with SWMBO, a Cape trip may be on next year. She has always wanted to see the Daintree. So I am using that as an excuse.

I'm test driving an L494 RRS tomorrow but may need to look at a D4/D5 as well. I just don't love the look of the D5.

L405 or L322 are both still leading the way. Just very, very hard to test drive either in SA. Now looking at a 2011/12 L322 TDV8 or a 2013/14 L405 SDV8.

Which would you choose if some more serious off road trips were on the cards? I've seen a couple threads of people doing big trips in an 322 but not much in a 405. I won't be towing - camping or staying in hotels.

[justinc]

Thanks guys really helpful! Looks like 4.4 TDV8 L322 is the go to be honest. If I'm going to buy a 4x4, I don't need it to be sporty.

Ha ha ha ha!!!🤣🤣🤣. You haven't driven a 4.4 tdv8 then?? There's enough sportiness for most people there... handling and outright power and torque are astonishing for such a heavy vehicle, with braking to match. You will not be disappointed 😏❤

[AlexRS4]

Ha ha ha ha!!!🤣🤣🤣. You haven't driven a 4.4 tdv8 then?? There's enough sportiness for most people there... handling and outright power and torque are astonishing for such a heavy vehicle, with braking to match. You will not be disappointed 😏❤

Ha, I'm sure it is compared to your average 4wd. I simply meant in comparison to most cars I've owned before.

[rar110]

Plenty say the L405 is a lighter, better option than the L322, which is no slouch.

Like all modern complicated cars, newer the better probably.

[justinc]

Totally, if an RS4 is one of them....🤔🤣

[Graeme]

Like all modern complicated cars, newer the better probably.I understand that the L405 is an improvement on the last of the L322s in lots of respects. The 4.4's secondary turbo drain was still the old style for a couple of years, the early L405/L494 front struts were prone to failure but may have been replaced, the L405/L494 suspension sub-frames are alloy instead of the L322's and L462 Disco's steel and the L405/L494 don't have the L322's good access to the back of the engine, none of which would stop me from upgrading to a 4.4 L405 if I could afford it.

[AlexRS4]

RS4 is the current beast 😉

I have to say the L405 really does appeal if it can be made good for an expedition.

[AlexRS4]

Search starts... test drove a TDV6 L494 and Amarok today and had a look at a L405. The L494 was really nice - no low range so out for a purchase, but comfortable and smooth. Power & torque of the TDV6 was just fine. It is a little wallowy but I am used to an Audi RS4 on coilovers with uprated ARBs...

Amarok had crappy seats but otherwise drove nicely. Some weird vibrations at times over a couple surfaces that just didn't seem to damp out well.

L405 was just gorgeous. I couldn't drive it - I was honest with the sales bloke I was looking for an earlier one and it's a $145k 2016 model. Anyone in SA got an L322 TDV8 or L405 SDV8 they'd take me for a spin in?

[101RRS]

If the Amorak was auto it would not have had low range. Why didn't you take an L495 RRS with low range for a drive?

[Graeme]

I person who I know looked at L494s to replace his ageing D3 but found that most don't have low range. Presumably most RRS buyers didn't add the 2-speed xfer case.

[justinc]

I person who I know looked at L494s to replace his ageing D3 but found that most don't have low range. Presumably most RRS buyers didn't add the 2-speed xfer case.

Graeme I find low range invaluable reversing my van. Some steep access areas I need to back it in to would be really over work8ng the gearbox without it!

[AlexRS4]

Primary reason I didn't drove a low range RRS was that I didn't realise the vehicle I booked in to drive didn't have low range. Trap for young players I suppose! I drove it anyway because I wasn't going to test drive it off road anyway and I presume they drive in High pretty much the same.

Correct no low range on the Amarok. That effort was really just to rule a new ute out. I'd driven a Ranger XLT previously which actually wasn't too bad. But hard to go back to that level of interior after living with an RS4 and driving a RRS.

[justinc]

Primary reason I didn't drove a low range RRS was that I didn't realise the vehicle I booked in to drive didn't have low range. Trap for young players I suppose! I drove it anyway because I wasn't going to test drive it off road anyway and I presume they drive in High pretty much the same.

Correct no low range on the Amarok. That effort was really just to rule a new ute out. I'd driven a Ranger XLT previously which actually wasn't too bad. But hard to go back to that level of interior after living with an RS4 and driving a RRS.


Good choice, Ranger / BT50 pretty overrated too. Just popular in tradie circles, rather like a certain piece of human anatomy that deals with waste disposal...🤔

[AlexRS4]

They are actually not bad for what they are. Really just fine for a $40-50k car new. It's not really reasonable to compare that to a $100k RRS or a $200k FFRR.

The tray would be useful too. Perhaps LR will come out with a ute one day. I think it would sell.

[rick130]

The tray would be useful too. Perhaps LR will come out with a ute one day. I think it would sell.

Ummm, they made utes for about sixty years, I'm pretty sure that's what I drove for over fifteen years but they are a luxury car manufacturer these days....[emoji849]

[AlexRS4]

Sorry yes you're right in the defender. I meant a luxury version.

[Eevo]

Good choice, Ranger / BT50 pretty overrated too. Just popular in tradie circles, rather like a certain piece of human anatomy that deals with waste disposal...🤔

we had a ranger at our firestation was pretty good imho.

[justinc]

we had a ranger at our firestation was pretty good imho.

Not a bad work ute I agree, but the top end "luxury" versions are just overpriced commercial vehicles, basically my Vogue cost about the same!!!😲😲

[AlexRS4]

Slight update. I've driven a lot of cars in the last couple of weeks, including a 14 L494 SDV6 HSE, 12 L322 SDV8 Luxury, 13 L405 SDV8 SE, and a 14 Disco4. Prices varied from 39k-80k.

Thoughts on each for any others considering this path.

2014 Disco4 SDV6 HSE - lovely to drive. Felt smaller and more nimble than both FFRRs. Interior felt dated and seat quality is not at the level of the RRs. Still, a nice vehicle. Cavernous inside.
L322 SDV8 Luxury - All the bells and whistles. Chassis feels its age when opening and closing doors - felt the most tank-like/agricultural of the lot. Great interior, gorgeous to drive. Brakes had noticeably more feedback than any other car. Wallows more than the others. I liked it but I now know why Harry Metcalfe reckons the 3.6 V8 is the pick - the 4.4s are just a touch too pricey for how old they feel. For 25-35k for an 07-09 3.6 V8 though it's an attractive proposition. Not so much at 50k+.
2013 L405 SDV8 SE - Wow what a car. Feels at least a decade newer than the L322, even though it's only 1yr older. Still a touch wallowy but vastly improved. The tech though - Meridian sound is amazing, super quiet, gorgeous panoramic roof, soaks up the bumps like a dream. This was the 80k car (a cheap one!). It has a presence about it too - just looks and feels big and regal. Imposing. Ultimately a bit too much car for me right now I think, though one day... which brings me to:
L494 RRS SDV6 HSE - The HSEs all have dual range, hooray! Drove it a week apart from the TDV6 I drove previously and honestly tough to tell them apart. The HSE was the best all round. Lovely to drive, even on 21s. Soaked up the bumps. Great size. Great panoramic roof. Gorgeous interior. Feels modern. I am now officially looking for a 494 HSE, Ideally MY16 with black interior, Meridian Sound, heated seats and panoramic roof. Best all round vehicle for me I think. It's got 95% of what the 405 does for a 30% lower price. It doesn't feel quite as ridiculously special as the 405, but is a more liveable size (and easier to find one in good nick for the right price).

[AlexRS4]

So after all that, I bought a decked out 2010 Disco4 3.0 TDV6 HSE (same as later year's SDV6) - the black one in the for sale section. With the change from a L494 RRS, the wife has given me the OK to buy that classic 911... after the bathroom and kitchen Renos are done :lol2:

Rather happy with my choice and looking forward to picking her up shortly!