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View Full Version : Fuel can holders, petrol v diesel and other related ramblings



Homestar
18th June 2019, 11:34 AM
So, thought I'd break this out into its own thread. There was some discussion started about jerry can holders and petrol versus diesel in the 'It won't be retro' thread.

Below is an excerpt from that thread when I started looking into the legalities of mounting jerry cans on the back of a vehicle.


Yes was referring to the article, back of carravan is not 4x4 though which I think is the question.

Looks like rear bar is legal as long as ADR designed etc, maybe if custom would need engineer cert.

What To Know: Travelling With Flammables - Without A Hitch | Without A Hitch (http://www.withoutahitch.com.au/travel/know-travelling-flammables/)

All makes sense - but does anyone know what ADR's they are referring to here? - "If they’re mounted on the rear of your car, you must be an approved, ADR compliant holder." I can find plenty of links that say this, but none of them point towards the relevant ADR - one or two have links to the main ADR website, but none to a specific ADR. Only reason I'm so interested is that the new rear bar I'm thinking of for my 101 was going to have jerry can holders on it - wondering if the ADR's are retrospective in this instance...

Edit - have emailed Vicroads to see if they know - not expecting much sense out of them though...

Well I actually did get a reply back from Vicroads - this is word for word what they sent me when I asked if I needed an ARD compliant holder on the back for carrying fuel.

"HiGavin,The Jerry Can itself must comply to AS 2906:2001 Fuel Containers -Portable-plastic and metal. There is no standard specifically for Jerry Canholders, however it would have to be securely attached to the vehicle andcomply to the Danger Goods (Transport by Road or Rail) Regulations 2018. http://www.legislation.vic.gov.au/Domino/Web_Notes/LDMS/LTObject_Store/LTObjSt10.nsf/DDE300B846EED9C7CA257616000A3571/B88CE304CC28964FCA2583300002FE48/$FILE/18-155sra001%20authorised.pdf

I have not been able to find any regulations specifically banning the fitmentof a Jerry Can to the rear of a vehicle, however I would not recommend it dueto the increased risk of fire in the event of an accident.

Thanks and kind regards,

Lachlan Carpenter
Client Technical Support Engineer
VicRoads
T 1300 309 571
E vscinfo@roads.vic.gov.au
W vicroads.vic.gov.au
I acknowledge the Traditional Aboriginal Owners of Country throughout Victoriaand pay my respect to Elders past and present and to the ongoing living cultureof Aboriginal people.


NOTE: Please do not reply to this email as the mailbox is unattended."

So, I've had a scan through the dangerous goods act - it's long, so I may have missed something - but I couldn't find anything prohibiting mounting jerry cans on the back on any vehicle, so looks like all the websites have regurgitated the same misinformation on this and you can in fact, legally build your own rear bar jerry can holder if you so chose to. I may still make one for the 101, and keep a copy of the regs and this email handy in case I ever get pulled up by an over zealous Officer.

W&KO
18th June 2019, 11:58 AM
Some General info on RACQ Website

Living (https://www.racq.com.au/Living/Articles/Can-you-carry-extra-fuel)

Found on the inter web 2016

Thank you for contacting the Department of Transport and Main Roads (TMR) about the rules on mounting diesel fuel to the rear of your vehicle.

There is no actual form/PDF for carrying diesel fuel on the rear of caravans. Please see the information below:

The fitting and use of vehicle accessories does not require specific approval from TMR provided the fitting and use does not contravene transport law (for example, the Vehicle Standards Regulation, Transport Operations (Road Use Management – Vehicle Standards and Safety) Regulation 2010 and Transport Operations (Road Use Management- Road Rules) Regulation 2009.

Mounting the containers at the rear of the vehicle would increase the risk of fire in the event of a rear end collision. TMR recommends that fuel should not be carried at the rear of a vehicle.

If you decide to fit the holders to the rear of your vehicle, you should consider the following:

1 the diesel fuel holder should be manufactured to recognised standards.
2 vehicle lighting and number plate must not be obstructed.
3. the rear overhang is not to exceed the front load space. The front load space can be measured from the front load carrying area to the centre of the axle. The rear overhang is measured from the centre of the axle to the further most point on the trailer.

If you require further information, I encourage you to contact our Vehicle Standards and Modification Advice team on 3114 5844 (Monday – Friday 10:00am – 4:30pm).

Kind regards,
Trish

Vehicle Standards | Legislation and Standards
Transport Regulation Branch | Department of Transport and Main Roads
Floor 2 | Transport House | 230 Brunswick Street | Fortitude Valley Qld 4006
PO Box 673 | Fortitude Valley Qld 4006
P: (07) 3114 5844 | F: (07) 3066 8740
E: vehiclestandards@tmr.qld.gov.au
W: Home (Department of Transport and Main Roads) (http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au) [Quote][/size]

Konradical
18th June 2019, 12:15 PM
A mate of mine is right into doing things by the book. So much so, that it took him 18 months researching legalities, before completing a mod to his JayDove that took a whole day to do.

He has been hot on the tail of this very subject and to date has found NOTHING written or otherwise to dictate the do's and don'ts in law/legislation. It's often a subject he has "discussions" with people on caravan forums and pages.

Even as far as carrying fuel cans on a bull bar, which many say is illegal, nothing is written. There may be something, but he hasn't found it yet.

Just at a guess, I would think the relevant ADR for the bar would be the one that references rear light visability when something is mounted. There must be a 120 degree in either direction of each light.. when home tonight and the trouble makers are asleep, Il try and confirm this.

Obviously there would also be a overhang measurement to maintain.

Don't hold me to account on this, is from memory and what I have been able to compile from when I modified the rear bar on my RRC to fit a tyre carrier and Jerry carrier.

Homestar
18th June 2019, 12:38 PM
Some General info on RACQ Website

Living (https://www.racq.com.au/Living/Articles/Can-you-carry-extra-fuel)

Found on the inter web 2016

Thank you for contacting the Department of Transport and Main Roads (TMR) about the rules on mounting diesel fuel to the rear of your vehicle.

There is no actual form/PDF for carrying diesel fuel on the rear of caravans. Please see the information below:

The fitting and use of vehicle accessories does not require specific approval from TMR provided the fitting and use does not contravene transport law (for example, the Vehicle Standards Regulation, Transport Operations (Road Use Management – Vehicle Standards and Safety) Regulation 2010 and Transport Operations (Road Use Management- Road Rules) Regulation 2009.

Mounting the containers at the rear of the vehicle would increase the risk of fire in the event of a rear end collision. TMR recommends that fuel should not be carried at the rear of a vehicle.

If you decide to fit the holders to the rear of your vehicle, you should consider the following:

1 the diesel fuel holder should be manufactured to recognised standards.
2 vehicle lighting and number plate must not be obstructed.
3. the rear overhang is not to exceed the front load space. The front load space can be measured from the front load carrying area to the centre of the axle. The rear overhang is measured from the centre of the axle to the further most point on the trailer.

If you require further information, I encourage you to contact our Vehicle Standards and Modification Advice team on 3114 5844 (Monday – Friday 10:00am – 4:30pm).

If you require further information, I encourage you to contact our Vehicle Standards and Modification Advice team on 3114 5844 (Monday – Friday 10:00am – 4:30pm).

Kind regards,
Trish

Vehicle Standards | Legislation and Standards
Transport Regulation Branch | Department of Transport and Main Roads
Floor 2 | Transport House | 230 Brunswick Street | Fortitude Valley Qld 4006
PO Box 673 | Fortitude Valley Qld 4006
P: (07) 3114 5844 | F: (07) 3066 8740
E: vehiclestandards@tmr.qld.gov.au
W: Home (Department of Transport and Main Roads) (http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/)[/size]

Thanks for that - The sentence I highlighted is the sort of things that bug me about bureaucrats - What recognised standards (if any) is she talking about? That sentence right there would stop someone dead in their tracks should they wish to proceed any further and I bet there isn't a recognised standard for construction of such a thing - maybe something like 'must be fit for purpose' or something, but that info is pretty light on and it seems she is just covering her arse which is what happens when questions like this get asked.

Homestar
18th June 2019, 12:42 PM
A mate of mine is right into doing things by the book. So much so, that it took him 18 months researching legalities, before completing a mod to his JayDove that took a whole day to do.

He has been hot on the tail of this very subject and to date has found NOTHING written or otherwise to dictate the do's and don'ts in law/legislation. It's often a subject he has "discussions" with people on caravan forums and pages.

Even as far as carrying fuel cans on a bull bar, which many say is illegal, nothing is written. There may be something, but he hasn't found it yet.

Just at a guess, I would think the relevant ADR for the bar would be the one that references rear light visability when something is mounted. There must be a 120 degree in either direction of each light.. when home tonight and the trouble makers are asleep, Il try and confirm this.

Obviously there would also be a overhang measurement to maintain.

Don't hold me to account on this, is from memory and what I have been able to compile from when I modified the rear bar on my RRC to fit a tyre carrier and Jerry carrier.

I feel his pain - so much of 'the law says' stuff you see on the net is completely unsubstantiated and just gets bought up time and again as gospel without any facts to back them up. It's one of the reasons I pushed back on this as I want the facts, but can't seem to get them - people posting links to camping forums and magazines that all spill out the same old tripe is not proof, and finding it amongst the BS is bloody hard.

101RRS
18th June 2019, 12:56 PM
I have not been able to find any regulations specifically banning the fitmentof a Jerry Can to the rear of a vehicle, however I would not recommend it due to the increased risk of fire in the event of an accident.



So it is not recommended to carry fuel jerries on the back, on the roof rack or in the boot, and it is definitely illegal on the front - that does not leave any where else for the jerry - though on a 101 it can be mounted under the tray on the passenger side.

Personally, with metal jerries in top condition I would carry them in the rear of the vehicle - but only satisfied that they will not leak or let vapour out. I have my LPG tank in the back of my 101 and when travelling outback carry 5 metal jerries above it on a shelf. Also considering getting the purpose built jerry holder installed for under the tray.

In the past when using the RRS I have carried the same jerries (x2) but filled with diesel in the back of the car - no other option. If I have the camper I have put two jerries of diesel on its holders on its rear bumper - in view of the information provided in this thread I will have to rethink that - maybe on the roof of the camper which is much lower than the car or back in the back of the car.

Thanks for posting - interesting issues to be be addressed.

Garry

Konradical
18th June 2019, 01:31 PM
I feel his pain - so much of 'the law says' stuff you see on the net is completely unsubstantiated and just gets bought up time and again as gospel without any facts to back them up. It's one of the reasons I pushed back on this as I want the facts, but can't seem to get them - people posting links to camping forums and magazines that all spill out the same old tripe is not proof, and finding it amongst the BS is bloody hard.I know nothing may come of it, but maybe a email to kaymar could shed some light. It's there industry and surely they could point you in the right direction.

Homestar
18th June 2019, 01:46 PM
So it is not recommended to carry fuel jerries on the back, on the roof rack or in the boot, and it is definitely illegal on the front - that does not leave any where else for the jerry - though on a 101 it can be mounted under the tray on the passenger side.

Personally, with metal jerries in top condition I would carry them in the rear of the vehicle - but only satisfied that they will not leak or let vapour out. I have my LPG tank in the back of my 101 and when travelling outback carry 5 metal jerries above it on a shelf. Also considering getting the purpose built jerry holder installed for under the tray.

In the past when using the RRS I have carried the same jerries (x2) but filled with diesel in the back of the car - no other option. If I have the camper I have put two jerries of diesel on its holders on its rear bumper - in view of the information provided in this thread I will have to rethink that - maybe on the roof of the camper which is much lower than the car or back in the back of the car.

Thanks for posting - interesting issues to be be addressed.

Garry

Yeah, already have the one on the LHS next to the winch in the 101 but want a couple more as I’m doing a big trip next year and would like to get close to what others can between servos, which means carrying twice the fuel - weight won’t be an issue for me like it will so,e others either. Also, while I am specifically talking about rear mounted, I have yet to see any actual reference to it being illegal to mount them up front either - apart from about 100 forum posts with no link to any legislation to show this is actually the case.

LRJim
18th June 2019, 01:55 PM
I’m doing a big trip next year and would like to get close to what others can between servos, which means carrying twice the fuel -

[emoji23][emoji23]

DiscoMick
18th June 2019, 01:58 PM
This is what the RACQ says, but it leaves unanswered questions.
For example, it says not to carry any fuel, not just petrol, inside.
It says don't carry fuel on the rear of a caravan, but doesn't quote an ADR.
Jerry can holders must be ADR approved.
So not conclusive.

Homestar
18th June 2019, 02:08 PM
[emoji23][emoji23]

Oh yes, very funny until you work out what a 6,000km trip will cost you in a 101... 😆😆😆

Homestar
18th June 2019, 02:12 PM
This is what the RACQ says, but it leaves unanswered questions.
For example, it says not to carry any fuel, not just petrol, inside.
It says don't carry fuel on the rear of a caravan, but doesn't quote an ADR.
Jerry can holders must be ADR approved.
So not conclusive.

This is the same line as many claim, but no one has been able to point to what ADR they are talking about - Vicroads says there is nothing specific banning it, so what is RACQ looking at that they aren't? Would love some information from those recycling this line over and over to actually point to the appropriate legislation - but I be they can't...

Are you with the RACQ? If so, any chance you can email them with a link to their own blurb and ask them what ADR?

LRJim
18th June 2019, 02:22 PM
Oh yes, very funny until you work out what a 6,000km trip will cost you in a 101... [emoji38][emoji38][emoji38]I can imagine, in the D1 i have a ratio of $100 for 350-400 ks if im lucky. Gonna cost you a lot at $3 p/l out in the desert [emoji33]
Most I ever paid for LPG was 94c p/l and I had 300lts to fill, and that was in a fairly large country town...

ChookD2
18th June 2019, 03:49 PM
This issues doesn't impact me personally but it is an interesting topic and may impact me in the future, so I started doing some digging.

Found this for you Living (https://www.racq.com.au/Living/Articles/Can-you-carry-extra-fuel) Again mentions ADR compliance but does not specify.

Still digging.

ChookD2
18th June 2019, 04:21 PM
Not sure if this helps, just gave the first few pages a scan and it has some mention of exemptions for MA, MB and MC class vehicle.

Vehicle Standard (Australian Design Rule 92/00 – External Projections) 2018 (https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/F2018L01520)

Happy reading.

Homestar
18th June 2019, 05:04 PM
Not sure if this helps, just gave the first few pages a scan and it has some mention of exemptions for MA, MB and MC class vehicle.

Vehicle Standard (Australian Design Rule 92/00 – External Projections) 2018 (https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/F2018L01520)

Happy reading.

Thanks - That ADR is so new it still doesn’t apply to any vehicle for another 2 weeks and probably won’t apply to any vehicle I’ll ever own.

Homestar
18th June 2019, 05:07 PM
This issues doesn't impact me personally but it is an interesting topic and may impact me in the future, so I started doing some digging.

Found this for you Living (https://www.racq.com.au/Living/Articles/Can-you-carry-extra-fuel) Again mentions ADR compliance but does not specify.

Still digging.

Just tried emailing RACQ to find out if they had a reference to their claim but I need to be an RACQ member to be able to email them - anyone here a member that can ask this question?

grey_ghost
18th June 2019, 06:34 PM
I am currently ducking for cover.... [emoji15]

DiscoMick
18th June 2019, 07:00 PM
Just tried emailing RACQ to find out if they had a reference to their claim but I need to be an RACQ member to be able to email them - anyone here a member that can ask this question?Yes, I'll have a go.

DiscoMick
18th June 2019, 07:26 PM
Living (https://www.racq.com.au/Living/Articles/Can-you-carry-extra-fuel)

I've sent an email asking for ADR advice, so we'll see what they say.
I realized I left their link out of my previous post, so it's above.

gromit
18th June 2019, 07:41 PM
What about contacting Pro Quip.
They make jerry cans so should have a handle on the ADR's.

Personally I wouldn't carry petrol in a Jerry can at the front or rear of a vehicle, common sense kicks in.....
I'd carry it on the roof but when I fill the mower can up it's transported inside the vehicle [bighmmm]

Back & front are for storage of diesel and/or water.



Colin

Homestar
18th June 2019, 07:52 PM
My issue is where on top of a 101 can support a jerry can? 😉

On the back of the vehicle I can live with. Won’t be room inside and I wouldn’t want a spill inside making it stink of petrol where I’ll be sleeping.

DiscoMick
18th June 2019, 07:59 PM
My issue is where on top of a 101 can support a jerry can? [emoji6]

On the back of the vehicle I can live with. Won’t be room inside and I wouldn’t want a spill inside making it stink of petrol where I’ll be sleeping.Need rod racks and a tray for load spreading, I think.

101RRS
18th June 2019, 08:29 PM
Living (https://www.racq.com.au/Living/Articles/Can-you-carry-extra-fuel)



I wonder why they say no jerries on the back of caravans but make no mention of the rear of vehicles.

101RRS
18th June 2019, 08:32 PM
Won’t be room inside and I wouldn’t want a spill inside making it stink of petrol where I’ll be sleeping.

I cuddle up to my LPG tank when sleeping in the back of the 101 - just as cold as some of the women I .......................

scarry
18th June 2019, 08:44 PM
I cuddle up to my LPG tank when sleeping in the back of the 101 - just as cold as some of the women I .......................

And i bet there are no complaints from it either.[biggrin]

Homestar
18th June 2019, 08:56 PM
Need rod racks and a tray for load spreading, I think.

What would the racks attach to? The hoops wouldn’t be strong enough and I don’t want to punch holes in a brand new, very expensive canvas that might cause leaks. 😊

Arapiles
18th June 2019, 09:06 PM
So does that mean you need a commercially made, ADR compliant jerry can holder? 😉

Maybe.

What I was getting at is that a jerry can holder itself can't be "ADR compliant" per se because there's no ADR for jerry can holders (this came up in a court case re motorbike helmet cameras about two years ago). ADRs are for cars, not accessories. As this useful article points out, the "ADR compliance" is that the product in question doesn't negatively affect the vehicle's ADR compliance:


"As he commented further, the term ‘ADR-compliant’ can be misinterpreted as applying to a particular accessory, rather than the fact it means the accessory is ‘compliant’ because it does not affect or alter the performance and safety of the vehicle as it was originally designed to meet a specific ADR."


Engineering ADR-compliant gear (https://www.whichcar.com.au/gear/engineering-adr-compliance-gear)

I can't see:

(a) how a rear or roof mounted jerry can holder would affect the ADR compliance of any vehicle: if cars had rear crumple zones then anything stuck on the back would need to not affect that, in the same way that bullbars can't affect ADR compliance re frontal collisions, but I can't think of any rear ADR compliance issues, other perhaps than not affecting or obscuring rear lights.

This article refers to using an "ADR compliant holder" but as I said, it's not clear in what sense a jerry can holder would render a car non-compliant:

Living (https://www.racq.com.au/Living/Articles/Can-you-carry-extra-fuel)

I would suggest though that if you were going to use jerry cans to carry fuel you would want to use jerry cans that comply with the Australian standard - and there is one for jerry cans. If you're using aux tanks that have been installed professionally, then you'd presumably have a warranty from the manufacturer/installer that the car was still road-worthy and ADR compliant.

(b) on a quick scan of the Australian Dangerous Goods Code, diesel doesn't get much of a mention, although petrol appears to be treated as more dangerous:

https://www.ntc.gov.au/Media/Reports/(A890348C-BEE7-3C64-A770-E98CFD8DDEFA).pdf

The Victorian Dangerous Goods (Transport by Road orRail) Regulations 2008 appear to exempt fuel loads of less than 500 litres or if the goods are not being transported commercially, and other State's regs are probably similar (since they run off the Code and the UN rules).

Basically the whole thing's a bit opaque and would warrant some proper research - I suspect that much of what's being said on-line about jerry cans is either urban myth or hearsay.

trout1105
19th June 2019, 01:56 AM
Yeah, already have the one on the LHS next to the winch in the 101 but want a couple more as I’m doing a big trip next year and would like to get close to what others can between servos, which means carrying twice the fuel - weight won’t be an issue for me like it will so,e others either. Also, while I am specifically talking about rear mounted, I have yet to see any actual reference to it being illegal to mount them up front either - apart from about 100 forum posts with no link to any legislation to show this is actually the case.

Have you considered using a fuel bladder instead of jerry cans, easier to use and can be folded away when empty to save space.
I am thinking of getting one for my boat for extended trips as the 2x 60l drums and 3 jerry cans take up a lot of space.

Homestar
19th June 2019, 05:43 AM
Have you considered using a fuel bladder instead of jerry cans, easier to use and can be folded away when empty to save space.
I am thinking of getting one for my boat for extended trips as the 2x 60l drums and 3 jerry cans take up a lot of space.

The issue would be where to put it.

alien
19th June 2019, 07:03 AM
Is there ADR’s for the caravan industry on where fuel can/can’t be carried on towed vehicles?
There may be references to motor vehicles contained within it.

Homestar
19th June 2019, 07:05 AM
Is there ADR’s for the caravan industry on where fuel can/can’t be carried on towed vehicles?
There may be references to motor vehicles contained within it.

I’ve seen plenty of posts online saying you can’t store fuel on the back of a van (and just based on the dynamics of a van that wouldn’t be a good idea) but again, no actual proof via a link to any legislation or rules that I have found.

travelrover
19th June 2019, 07:40 AM
I cuddle up to my LPG tank when sleeping in the back of the 101 - just as cold as some of the women I .......................

If it does get hot would all be over in a flash just like some of the ....

101 Ron
19th June 2019, 07:57 AM
The humble Jerrycan is one of the most tested fuel carrying devices ever.
It has been tested in practice and in the laboratory extensively.
In world war Two bulk petrol supplies via tanker truck was rare except for refuelling aircraft.
The Red ball express in Europe was all about supplying mainly petrol to tanks and then ammo and food.
6x6 trucks carried hundreds of jerrycans in the rear and were often targets for the enemy.
By the end of world war Two most combat vehicles carried jerrycans somewhere on the vehicle.
Approved world war two mods to 6x6 army vehicles could have jerrycans mounted on the front bumper or even the rear mud flaps.
world war two fuel dumps were thousands and thousands of jerrycans.
This carried though until less labour intensive handling of petrol/diesel etc was introduced by the 1970s by use of bulk tank or pipe lines.
The world war 2 jeeps and there are still plenty round all carry a petrol jerrycan on the rear, as do ex army series 3 landrovers.
In the real world the use of jerrycans has not been a problem if carried correctly on the side, rear and in the bad old days front of a vehicle.
I find a full petrol jerry can be thrown in the air and land on a hard concrete surface and will not burst open.
( talking about army spec jerrycans....not plastic or tin foil knock offs)
If thrown in to a fire, it takes a surprisingly long time for it to cook off.
I have been carrying petrol jerrycans in jeeps and landrovers out side and inside for a extremely long time and never had a issue .
Never been pulled up or had rego knocked back.
Model T fords, WW2 jeeps and post war ones to the early 1970s had a thin metal wall petrol tank just below the drivers bum when smoking was at its height...…...never a problem.
these petrol tanks were not sealed, but vented.
Now we have late model vehicles with plastic non vented petrol tanks which can build up pressure on a hot day.
Some of these tanks the plastic is thin and not good quality .
We now have petrol pumps pushing 60 psi though to the engine and must rely of impact sensors to shut of the petrol supply in a accident which may or may not work.
Many late model vehicles are catching on fire after a good thump.
At least with a jerrycan it has a good chance of being thrown from the vehicle on impact intact.
I am about to watch another movie where the vehicle rolls off the cliff and blows up in flames at the bottom of the gorge...…...got to love Hollywood to spice things up and people believe it.

donh54
19th June 2019, 12:50 PM
I wonder why they say no jerries on the back of caravans but make no mention of the rear of vehicles.Maybe they're worried about grey nomads reversing into things!

donh54
19th June 2019, 12:56 PM
The issue would be where to put it.Inside! Use it for a waterbed!

Homestar
19th June 2019, 01:46 PM
Inside! Use it for a waterbed!

I'll pay that! Wouldn't be very comfortable when empty though...

DiscoMick
19th June 2019, 01:48 PM
I've seen new vans and campers with fuel drum racks on the rear, so it's hard to believe it's banned.

Homestar
19th June 2019, 02:13 PM
I've seen new vans and campers with fuel drum racks on the rear, so it's hard to believe it's banned.

Agreed - there's a heap out there running them. If it isn't allowed, the Police certainly aren't enforcing it, but I've yet to see anything that shows it's not legal.

101RRS
19th June 2019, 02:18 PM
Are they fuel drum racks or generic jerry racks for putting water jerries in.

DiscoMick
19th June 2019, 02:44 PM
Both would fit.
Our camper had an option of either two spares or a spare and a jerry holder on the back.

Homestar
19th June 2019, 02:45 PM
I've never seen one that says 'water only' so assume it is for both - whatever is required.

JDNSW
19th June 2019, 02:47 PM
....
Model T fords, WW2 jeeps and post war ones to the early 1970s had a thin metal wall petrol tank just below the drivers bum when smoking was at its height...…...never a problem.
these petrol tanks were not sealed, but vented.
....

In 1965 I was working in the middle of the Simpson Desert. The crew was largely equipped with Landcruisers, and these had dual fuel tanks, under the front seats, and inside the body (unlike Landrovers). One morning, one of these (swb hardtop) apparently developed a leak in the filler hose, resulting in a pool of petrol* under the seats. As the vehicle pulled away from the refuelling point (44 gallon drums plus hand pump), the centre passenger lit up a cigarette and waved the match between his legs to extinguish it, with unexpectedly spectacular results. As they were only doing about 5kph by this time, all three bailed out without injury. Despite using every fire extinguisher in camp, and vigorous work with shovels and sand, it took about an hour to put the fire out. The initial fire burnt through the plastic fuel lines and the tanks then provided a steady flow of petrol onto the floor and through the melted plastic plugs in the drain holes to provide an ongoing fire underneath that was impossible to extinguish until the fuel was exhausted.

As far as I know, the remains are still there.

*At the time Landcruisers were not made in diesel, certainly not sold in Australia, and I'm pretty certain that the only available diesel light four wheel drive at the time was Landrover. For our entire operation, the only diesel used was for the lighting generator and one large air compressor.

slug_burner
2nd July 2019, 12:14 AM
The term appropriate standards applies to many things and sometimes there are no specific standards for the whole but there will be for the parts. When it comes to fabricating with metal, there will be welding standards that apply to welding. The use of standards is to try and get a good product to generally accepted quality, in the case of welding, strength.

Standards are also there to offer/assist people a defence when it comes to legal action. If you state that and can show that you have built something to the appropriate standards then it will be accepted that you have done the right thing. If you stray from the standard then it will be up to you to demonstrate that what you have built is suitable. This could take lost of calculations and simulation which can be costly, it is just easier to build it to the applicable standard.

Diesel is not a dangerous good, the flash point temperature is considered too high to be a fire risk. I think if the flash point is over 60C then it is not a dangerous good. Petrol is different. The amount also influences if it is dangerous goods. 1 litre of alcohol (I think) is not dangerous goods however once over a particular quantity it will be
considered dangerous. I doubt a jerry can of petrol will be dangerous goods.

ADRs as already stated apply to the design of vehicles and not to bits that you attach to them. Just have to make sure that you don’t invalidate the vehicles ADR compliance by blocking the view of lights and number plates, etc. Something like a bike rack attached to a towing attachment will not have an ADR to comply to but should not block visibility of items where visibility is requested by the ADRs.

Some states and sometimes the whole country through Federal Laws affect the legality of things associated with vehicles despite the fact they may not infringe vehicle standards (ADRs, etc). I recall when LPG was starting to become a viable alternative to petrol, stationwagon owners had lpg tanks fitted on roof racks as you were not allowed to locate the tank in a passenger compartment. The locating tanks on roofs was outlawed as they could easily come loose in case of an accident. Outward venting systems subsequently allowed lpg tanks to be fitted inside vehicles. So ADRs are not the only thing that has to be consider when modifying vehicles!

If there are no applicable standards or laws then do a risk assessment and mitigate the risks. Be prepared to argue why the actions you took to mitigate the risks are sufficient. Demonstrating that you have thought about the risks will go a long way to demonstrate that you have not acted with blatant disregard in what you have done.

Good luck

The above should in no way be considered as legal advice and you should do your own research to satisfy yourself of the legality of your actions.