92 rrc sort of resto

[Pr0ko]

Hey all, I recently got myself a 92 vogue se. Good runner. Few things I wanna fix up.

First up - no heat. Seller said the heater core was leaky. Anyone have any suggestions on where to get them? And does the 92 have the one where the hoses point up?

Brake pump - I have a good pump but I think the pressure switch is bad - I can hear it pumping feintly. But not enough to extinguish the light (abs light is on permanently) are the switches replaceable? Or what else should I check? The previous owner installed an aux switch to go under the seat which turns the pump on. It’ll pump and extinguish the low pressure light (abs still on) but after a few presses on the pedal I’ll hear a relay click a few times quickly under the seat. Sometimes I can hear the pump but feintly. Then I’ll have to toggle the Aux switch again. Previously had a leaky caliper but I’ve since replaced that.

Also whats involved in an lt230 tc swap? Front prob is removed as the viscous seized locked. I wanna concert it so as not to worry about the BW tc anymore.

Lastly, I’m picking up a set of twr/disco es wheels off a member but only 2 are good. If anyone has any leads for another 2 or full set I would be interested. Thanks

[headdamage]

Heater is a pita but do able. It lives in the heart of the dash and requires a lot of dash and center consul removal to access.

I removed the abs brakes and pump from my 1993 200tdi RRC and replaced with non abs disco 1 parts.

Replaced bw with lt230 from disco 1, fairly easy job. Easier than doing the heater ;)

[Pr0ko]

What’s involved in the brake swap? Just booster etc?

[headdamage]

I stripped the whole rrc brake system and fitted disco 1 rear calipers and military 90 front calipers and discs. Rrc uses dual brake lines so deleted the extras. I think there should be a few combinations of parts that will work.

[aussiebushman]

I stripped the whole rrc brake system and fitted disco 1 rear calipers and military 90 front calipers and discs. Rrc uses dual brake lines so deleted the extras. I think there should be a few combinations of parts that will work.

Yes that is one option, but a lot of work. Another option is to remove the existing ABS pump and motor and replace them with one scavenged from a P38. If necessary, modify the legs so it fits comfortably in the space. Do NOT remove the old accumulator or the flexible hose- just connect the existing one to the new one. Then top up and bleed the system.

This might sound dodgy but it works with a minimal of effort. Do not throw out the old motor and pump - it can probably be repaired and will be there as a spare

[Pr0ko]

How do I test it? I hear it click here and there but it seems to lose pressure.

[Highcam]

Hey all, I recently got myself a 92 vogue se. Good runner. Few things I wanna fix up.

First up - no heat. Seller said the heater core was leaky. Anyone have any suggestions on where to get them? And does the 92 have the one where the hoses point up?

Brake pump - I have a good pump but I think the pressure switch is bad - I can hear it pumping feintly. But not enough to extinguish the light (abs light is on permanently) are the switches replaceable? Or what else should I check? The previous owner installed an aux switch to go under the seat which turns the pump on. It’ll pump and extinguish the low pressure light (abs still on) but after a few presses on the pedal I’ll hear a relay click a few times quickly under the seat. Sometimes I can hear the pump but feintly. Then I’ll have to toggle the Aux switch again. Previously had a leaky caliper but I’ve since replaced that.

Also whats involved in an lt230 tc swap? Front prob is removed as the viscous seized locked. I wanna concert it so as not to worry about the BW tc anymore.

Lastly, I’m picking up a set of twr/disco es wheels off a member but only 2 are good. If anyone has any leads for another 2 or full set I would be interested. Thanks

Hi Dude
Don't despair, your problem with the brake booster may be quite simple !
I have a 94LSE and had the same problem where the brakes would intermittently fail and not build up pressure. After much diagnosing and checking I found the problem was very simple! The 40Amp relay under the passengers seat was faulty! I am certain this is also your problem, especially when the pump works if you use the mechanical switch someone put in there. Classic example of a high resistance contact in a relay! $2 Falcon or some other car from the wreckers will do it, just make sure you get a good Bosch 40Amp relay. You need to remove the metal trim on the sill, remove the plastic cover on the door side of the seat and you can access the relays under the seat. The ABS Pump relay is the rear of the three there, a normal 40Amp 4 pin relay will do the job, and RR recommend that the Valve relay (next to the ABS Relay) is replaced as well. Another 40Amp relay here as well.
Regards
Highcam
I forgot to mention, the ABS light won't go off till you drive it a short distance! Once the pump is working again check that you have good light brake pedal and brakes are working, then go for a drive to check that the ABS light goes off!

[Pr0ko]

So I think it’s my pressure sensor switch that’s dead. Replaced relays - no go. Removed plug to switch and jumped the two prongs on the plug - pump runs. So I’m guessing it’s dud. Are there switches available to buy??

[Pr0ko]

Although now when I manually switch the pump and drive the abs light goes out too and only comes on when the pressure drops. So that’s a good thing atleast

[Mercguy]

Before you get too far into it, get yourself a copy of RAVE and make sure you swat up on it, particularly the ETM and the HVAC sections.

These vehicles aren't as clear-cut to work on and you may find yourself going back and forth between subsequent MY's on RAVE to ascertain exactly what component is exactly where in your vehicle. Particularly with regards to the relays and fuses and harness routes for various options.

The HVAC is not what I'd call overly complicated, but it is a huge PITA to replace the heater matrix, because of where it is located.
If you are about "restoration" then only a 100% replacement is going to suit you. If you are about 'improvement' then absolutely consider the replacement of the HVAC setup with an aftermarket unit from vintageair or the like. Neither way will be cheap, I haven't found the best solution for me either. I have seen others use vintage air and some replace all the factory stuff.
One thing I am certain of, is that the softdash redesign is a more efficient setup and a much better cabin layout for distribution etc. However it is such a huge undertaking to implement that it really would be easier to own a later model or buy a disco.

Whichever way you decide, it's still important to have a copy of RAVE and a CO2 extinguisher to hand when working on these things, especially at the outset, so you reduce the frustration levels to the least 'explosive'. the RRC has interesting and inventive ways of turning gentile placid men into rage killers. turning the CO2 extinguisher on yourself can also be beneficial when you get hot under the collar [thumbsupbig]

[DoubleChevron]

Before you get too far into it, get yourself a copy of RAVE and make sure you swat up on it, particularly the ETM and the HVAC sections.

These vehicles aren't as clear-cut to work on and you may find yourself going back and forth between subsequent MY's on RAVE to ascertain exactly what component is exactly where in your vehicle. Particularly with regards to the relays and fuses and harness routes for various options.

The HVAC is not what I'd call overly complicated, but it is a huge PITA to replace the heater matrix, because of where it is located.
If you are about "restoration" then only a 100% replacement is going to suit you. If you are about 'improvement' then absolutely consider the replacement of the HVAC setup with an aftermarket unit from vintageair or the like. Neither way will be cheap, I haven't found the best solution for me either. I have seen others use vintage air and some replace all the factory stuff.
One thing I am certain of, is that the softdash redesign is a more efficient setup and a much better cabin layout for distribution etc. However it is such a huge undertaking to implement that it really would be easier to own a later model or buy a disco.

Whichever way you decide, it's still important to have a copy of RAVE and a CO2 extinguisher to hand when working on these things, especially at the outset, so you reduce the frustration levels to the least 'explosive'. the RRC has interesting and inventive ways of turning gentile placid men into rage killers. turning the CO2 extinguisher on yourself can also be beneficial when you get hot under the collar [thumbsupbig]

You need to work on a modern plastic ****box if you think the Classic is difficult. The heater is a peice of cake ( coming from someone that spent 14hours changing the evaporter in a modern plastic ****box.... and yes, the factory "book" time to change one is about that too). They assemble the bloody dash unit outside the car and stick it in through the windscreen (or drop the body ontop of it) during manufacture. So pulling them out down the track is an exercise in frustration. A few hours in you'll be searching for a demo saw so you can just cut the bastard out.

seeya,
Shane L.

[Mercguy]

I'll tell you why it's "difficult"

Every little bit of plastic is so brittle, if you breathe on it, it breaks. Never mind the fact it's just a shoddily built britbox, the plastic is just absolute ****e.

I've done heater cores in w140 Mercedes S class... nothing shocks me in terms of 'next level' difficulty. It's a dash-out job. 2 days labour for removal.

If you want "stupidity" then the cabin filter in a 2012 Megane III RS will send you to the chiropractor for a week of rehabilitation. under the dash, behind the pedal box. Every 2 years or 40,000km. heh. 2 hours by the book just for the R&R of the cabin filter. and that 2 hours is if you're pro-level yoga instructor with a full factory renault training certificate. for a human it's about 3.5 hours... for a cabin filter..

the w212 e63 cabin filter & biofilter matrix? 5 minutes... literally. Engineers at least learned something in 20 years...

Rage Rover? (yes rage) lower dash out and er... where is the filter? oh it doesn't have one. What's all that disgusting crud on the blower unit and the evap core??? ohh rotting old filter gauze and hazmat environmental contaminants... oh nice. better get the asbestos dust extractor and some bleach...

3 days later... oh need to take the dash upper section out to clean the rest of the "ductwork" heh what ductwork...

Some of the things I found in a car that was well-maintained was quite disturbing.

[DoubleChevron]

I'll tell you why it's "difficult"

Every little bit of plastic is so brittle, if you breathe on it, it breaks. Never mind the fact it's just a shoddily built britbox, the plastic is just absolute ****e.

I've done heater cores in w140 Mercedes S class... nothing shocks me in terms of 'next level' difficulty. It's a dash-out job. 2 days labour for removal.

If you want "stupidity" then the cabin filter in a 2012 Megane III RS will send you to the chiropractor for a week of rehabilitation. under the dash, behind the pedal box. Every 2 years or 40,000km. heh. 2 hours by the book just for the R&R of the cabin filter. and that 2 hours is if you're pro-level yoga instructor with a full factory renault training certificate. for a human it's about 3.5 hours... for a cabin filter..

the w212 e63 cabin filter & biofilter matrix? 5 minutes... literally. Engineers at least learned something in 20 years...

Rage Rover? (yes rage) lower dash out and er... where is the filter? oh it doesn't have one. What's all that disgusting crud on the blower unit and the evap core??? ohh rotting old filter gauze and hazmat environmental contaminants... oh nice. better get the asbestos dust extractor and some bleach...

3 days later... oh need to take the dash upper section out to clean the rest of the "ductwork" heh what ductwork...

Some of the things I found in a car that was well-maintained was quite disturbing.

Its still simple to work on ... the plastic is way better quality than the european stuff from the same era. They didn't use UV stablisers and most of the interiors in them died when new. I'm heard the story of someone that changed the dash top in there wifes Citroen BX when they were only a year or two old... a decent sized job.. and she went and parked the car in the sun at the supermarket on the same day ................. cracking the new one [bighmmm]

The BX we owned years ago, I just used to vacuum up all the broken plastic and ignore it. EVERYTHING broke. At least the range rover plastic hasn't deteriated, it was just to brittle when made (ie: is hasn't actually disintegrated in the sun ... it was just always crap quality).

It took me two long days to change the evaporator in a Citroen XM. 15hours is the shop time ... and it took me every single bit of that. Never again (bloody plastic modern ****boxes) You could probably have a Range Rover classic heater core out in 2hours.

seeya,
Shane L.

[Pr0ko]

So my tacho reads zero till about 2000 rpm then it’ll jump to 2000. Sometimes it comes good and works in all rev ranges but most of the time it just ‘loses sensitivity’ and drops back to zero until I rev high. The plug behind the alternator seems to be making good contact and the wires seem ok.

What should i be checking?

[PhilipA]

What should i be checking?
The alternator.

Regards Philip A

[Pr0ko]

Alrighty, I think my fuel pump just gave up. Drove the car to somewhere fine. Let it sit for an hour. Got back into it and it started. Drove up an exit ramp and it cut out. Wouldn’t restart. Rollled it back to bottom and opened bonnet. Restarted and it started and idled fine. Drive up ramp and it cut out again. This time it wouldn’t start. I can hear the pump relay click but not the pump whirring.

My inertia seitch doesnt look like the common button (if it’s what I’m thinking about) but it’s like a box with a plunger that protrudes from it. Tried that both ways. Still nothing. There’s power getting to the relay when I try it with a tester.

On the fuel fuel pump itself there’s a 3 prong plug on the lid. Is that power for the pump or just the sender? I only get a very feint signal in the positive from there.

I’d like to try and jump the pump to see if it is that but I’m not sure which wires to jump. Any help please? I’ve checked fuses under the seats too and they are all intact 152892


Pic is of the lid.

[Mercguy]

Did you test power to the rear connector from the relay?

Have you got a copy of RAVE yet.

I sent you part of the 92 ETM - a schematic via PM.

It is inevitable that you are going to have to endure some "light reading" aka rave manual headache.


While people on here are generally helpful, they will not repeatedly spoon feed you. Many do not have the same year model vehicle either, and the electrical systems on Range Rovers are as varied as the weather.

If you have performed diagnostic checks and outline clearly what you have done then you are more likely to elicit a ballpark helpful response, but the first one that comes to mind is...

RTFMF... LOL
Then if you're sure you have followed the diagnostic process as explained in "TFM" (aka RAVE), and stated your results in accordance with it's outlined test procedure, it will be a LOT easier for those who are willing to assist, provide you with a clear path to resolution.

The electrics in these vehicles are not "great".
The schematic can be a PITA and it can also be almost illegible at times, especially with the PDF, but that is all we get for free.
Like the rest of us, you will suffer a degree of frustration at first.

When attempting to diagnose an issue, do not stop halfway. work from the very start of the circuit, i.e. the battery, and trace the entire circuit. Never assume that a circuit is functioning because your multimeter beeps for conductivity where you checked. Test the voltage drop and the in-circuit resistance (cumulative) to ensure you are getitng "the full picture" as to what exactly is going on with your electrics.

These vehicles are old, most have suffered butchery in the electrical system, especially under the dash or near the fuse panels. To make them reliable, one needs to approach any aged, corroded, brittle or overloaded circuit wiring with new wiring and appropriate fuses / breakers depending on the circuit type and current draw.

It's just the way it is. Not the news you're wanting to hear I am sure, but these vehicle will repeatedly kick you in the backside until you make the effort to be absolute in eliminating all possible contributors to "unreliability".

Trace all the conductors back to the inertia switch, trace the main power feed and check the relay. Check all the inline connectors for corrosion / verdigris and thoroughly clean them with CO cleaner and then use some inox / lanotec / switchlube on those cleaned connectors and ensure they are well protected from further ingress of moisture and detritus. (get under vehicle and clean every inline harness connector)

It's highly likely that nearly every electrical connection in your vehicle will have some kind of contaminant on the connector contacts, be it sulphonation or oxidation, dirt or moisture. Spend some quality time cleaning every connector you can lay your eyes on, and then go looking for the rest of them....

Fuel pumps do fail, and replacements are not massively expensive, but making sure your wiring is good from the power source all the way to the pump connector is the key to ensuring reliability and preventing an unnecessary spend... (although having a spare fuel pump is not a bad idea, like spare starter motors and alternators, indicator relays and brake light switches. Basic 'get out of jail free' cards that any older vehicle owner should carry on their garage shelf.

Do not forget to check the engine bay wiring for the 14cux's coil-ecu wire (white with black trace?) that is near the airflow meter. If that connection is suspect, random stoppages will occur as well. If it's not connected, the vehicle won't start. If it is loose, it will cause random stalling / cutout.

Inertia switches can cause it, if the spring is weak and there is carpet or an object too close to the plunger (ask me how I found that out one day) and this can be a "gotcha" because it's not in your nature to check something like that on level ground, unless you have experienced it before. In my case it cost me a fuel pump and a dizzy module, because it was just intermittent shorting over random bumps that did not always cause the switch to permanently open the contacts.... a REAL pita.

For the purpose of elimination testing, I do recommend removing the inertia switch and bypassing it FOR TESTING. but do not remove it permanently. It is there for safety in an accident or rollover situation and it should be 'maintained' like the rest of your mandatory safety items in the vehicle (brakes, seat belts etc). The spring is soft and sensitive and can cause intermittent fuel pump circuit "open" condition if it is not operating within spec.

IIRC There is a power connector on the LHR chassis rail above the damper, near the fromt left top of the plastic fuel tank that can sometimes be problematic for the fuel system power, it may also pay to check all the supplementary connections underneath the vehicle and ensure there is no mud, moisture or greasy oily crud elsewhere on connectors.

[Pr0ko]

Got your pm thank you.

And thank you again. Not expecting to be spoon fed but nice to have a place to share Land Rover woes! I’m doing the fuel pump now. Hopefully back on the toad tomorrow. Then a few more things on the list

[Pr0ko]

Ok well thanks to the rave manual I’ve found that I was checking the wrong relay haha. I was checking the abs relays. I checked both the efi and fuel pump relays. And both are definitely getting power to them. I tried to bridge 30/87 on the fuel pump relay (blue base) and still got no power to the pump.

Weird thing I noticed though is with the efi relay unplugged and the fuel pump relay in. When I turn the keys to red the fuel pump relay clicks. But when I have both the efi and fuel relay plugged in. Only the efi relay clicks. 🤔 is that normal?

I’ve lifted the carpet in the back to try and do a bit more chasing on the wiring as I’m getting the feeling that since jumping the blue base does nothing - there must be a pinched wire somewhere.

[Pr0ko]

And she’s running again. I’m not too sure what it was. I changed the pump originally but still no go. Checked places where power should be and there was power. Pulled positive from coil and there was power. Still no start even with relay bridged. Pulled the box beside the dizzy around and pressed it down again. Pulled coil wire from coil. And she fired up

[4bee]

turning the CO2 extinguisher on yourself can also be beneficial when you get hot under the collar [thumbsupbig]

Just ensure you leave the room before doing that.[biggrin]

[Mercguy]

And she’s running again. I’m not too sure what it was. I changed the pump originally but still no go. Checked places where power should be and there was power. Pulled positive from coil and there was power. Still no start even with relay bridged. Pulled the box beside the dizzy around and pressed it down again. Pulled coil wire from coil. And she fired up

Ahh.

Sounds like it is time for you to undertake the bee-utey ignition module relocation and coil replacement mod.

[Pr0ko]

Ahh.

Sounds like it is time for you to undertake the bee-utey ignition module relocation and coil replacement mod.


Got a link??

[Mercguy]

Got a link??

using the search function at the bottom of the page, nets the following articles of interest:

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153035

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[Pr0ko]

Thank you. That’ll be the next project

[Pr0ko]

Removed tint and replaced scuttle panel. ( I removed the snorkel a while back )

she’s starting to get to where I want her to be!
153364