Leaking Brake Pipe

[rexhunt]

Hi All,

I've got a Series IIa sitting in a paddock on my farm waiting for a couple of other projects to be finished before I get it registered. In the mean time we've been using it to bounce around the paddocks, take the bins out, drag trees around. That sort of stuff.

Unofrtunately the brakes haven't really worked properly for most of the time I've had it, they'll give a good pedal on the 2nd pump, but not the first. I now suspect that this may have been caused by not lifting the front of the car as I was bleeding the brakes. Or I might not have the shoes adjusted properly.

Anyway, that's not the big problem I've got currently. There seems to be a leak where the suction from the side of the resivoir enters the master cylinder. I had the pipe off the other day and looking at the flare I couldn't spot anything obviously wrong. Do flared fittings like this usually look like they aren't going to work when they're leaking?

I found the camera yesterday so I'll try to get some photos and add them over the weekend which will hopefully explain a little better what I'm trying to describe.

Thanks,
Rex

[rexhunt]

Managed to get some photos this afternoon

This one is an overview, the suspect is the curved pipe from the reservoir to the master cylinder that you can see both ends of.
152183

Here is a close up of the top of the master cylinder. There is a slight sheen in the photo on the RH pipe. There is fluid around where the pipe goes into the threaded part, this seems to be overflowing from there.
152182

Should I just take the line to a brake shop and ask them to make up a new one?

Thanks,
Rex

[bemm52]

Possibly both of them seem a bit iffy, one also appears to be copper or copper/nickel



The pipes are easy to flare if you have the correct flaring tool I bought one on eBay for under $50 and its now done three cars

Brake pipe is also readily available, but if you remove sus pipes and fittings a brake place should be able to replicate them.

I saved the flare nut thingos and reused a lot of them........also proper flare nut spanners make removal and replacement a lot easier, they look like a ring spanner with a bit cut out to go past pipe, open enders can round flare nuts

Cheers Paul

[JDNSW]

As Paul says. Note that if you plan to get it on the road copper brake pipes will fail RWC, albeit widely used in the distant past. You can get an approved copper alloy pipe which is marked continuously along its length.

If that pipe actually is copper, I would suspect it is a home built one which has been flared with a wrong type of tool, and this is the reason for the leak.

[1950landy]

It could be that it has a single flare instead of a double flare on the pipe. That would cause the pipe to be loose on its seat. Also the flared end of the nut could have a split in it .

[rexhunt]

Thanks for the replies. Sounds like I'll be getting some new brake lines then.


Note that if you plan to get it on the road copper brake pipes will fail RWC,

This could explain why the line was painted black, before cleaning it up anyway. I'm planning to get it back on the road after I've finished my house so I'll need to replace eventually.


The pipes are easy to flare if you have the correct flaring tool I bought one on eBay for under $50 and its now done three cars

I'd been thinking about buying one of the brake line kits I've seen with all the lines made up to the correct sizes. Then replacing all of the lines to avoid any questions.
If I could make my own lines then I could only replace the ones that actually need it.

Are the flare tools very difficult to use? and is it a special type of flare? I seem to recall reading somewhere that brakes use a special kind of tool.

Thanks,
Rex

[JDNSW]

Yes, it is a special type of flare called a double flare. Tools are available and quite easy to use, but are expensive compared to the single flare tools.

If thinking of buying a kit, you need to be aware that Series 2 and 2a came with two types of master cylinder, CB (yours) and CV, and the pipes are different. Make sure you are supplied with the right one.

It is likely that you have either a brake or hydraulic specialist somewhere nearby that can make up the pipes you need from a sample for less than the cost of a tool, and certainly less than the cost of a whole kit of pipes.

Another "gotcha" to watch - your 2a should have UNF threads on the pipe fittings, but I have an idea that early S2 had BSF, as did S1, and it is possible that some modern suppliers may incorrectly supply metric pipe nuts! So make sure what you have, and make sure you get the same.

[rexhunt]

Thanks for the help on this. Sounds like I'll take that reservoir pipe off and take it down to brakepro and just get a new one made up for me. I'll just do the same with any others I find that need replacing also.

Cheers,
Rex

[JDNSW]

I think that is what I would do. Just make sure that they know to match the thread on the nut! And as a further thought, the nut you have actually does screw freely into the master cylinder, doesn't it?

[rexhunt]

As far as I remember the nut screwed on freely enough. Certainly don't remember thinking it's the wrong one.

Cheers,
Rex

[ian4002000]

it would be best to check what the bottom of the hole looks like. I have found that some of the land rover pipes have a ball end and some have the double flare end.
You need the correct end to enable a seal to be made the master cylinder possibly needs the ball end which is the first stage of a double flare.

Ian
Bittern

[rexhunt]

Well I fitted the new pipe from the reservoir to the MC on Monday night and last night snuck off after dinner to bleed the brakes. I don't know if it's becasuse there isn't a leak anymore or if it's because I was finally able to park on a slope with the front end up while bleeding, but I now can't bottom out the brake pedal at all which is nice.

The new pipe was about $30 from Brakepro here in town and was fairly close to matching the original pipe, a little bending by hand and it fitted. They were able to put a new threaded bit on the MC end but had to reuse the original where it attached to the reservoir.

While I was doing a quick victory lap, I mean test drive the engine stalled and with just the rolling noises it sounded like the back left brakes are dragging so I'll probably need to re-adjust those. That might explain why the poor brakes weren't such an issue before.

Cheers,
Rex