Puma 2.4 Reliability

[fourteen8]

Hi all,

I may be in the market for Defender. The boss already give me a green light. I think she fed up of me sending Defender on sale almost every night [bigsmile]
Currently I have a Discovery 2 Td5 and only being use 1-2 times a week to take my kids or me to play sports. So I am not sure whether I should get one (that's why I said maybe at a start). But the green light from the boss may not be for long.

Anyway, I have been looking for Defender post Td5 mainly due to better seats and interior and looks from the outside. I found some 2.4 Defender which is not that bad in term of price and condition and mostly is around 2010 Defender. I also been reading some post regarding 2.4 and but mostly are old posts.
Now my questions are:
1. Is 2.4 that bad or all the issues had been rectified by now?
2. Are they all having issue or only few bad ones out there?
3. Should I budget a replacement engine in the future?
4. Should I wait until I can afford 2.2 Puma?

I remember in the early year of having Td5, people used to say Td5 is bad engine compare to 300Tdi at that time. My Td5 was also need to have head done gasket and change to cooler thermostat. Not to mention other issue like front shaft, XYZ, etc but that not engine related. But now I am hearing a lot of people actually like Td5 and some said it is the most tunable engine. is it the same as 2.4 puma? is it because they haven't really know what the issue and how to rectify it?

Below article said Td5 is the best engine Defender ever has.
The best ever Defender engines | Auto Express (https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/land-rover/defender/100597/the-best-ever-defender-engines)



Thanks,
Gus

[travelrover]

Hi all,

I may be in the market for Defender. The boss already give me a green light. I think she fed up of me sending Defender on sale almost every night [bigsmile]
Currently I have a Discovery 2 Td5 and only being use 1-2 times a week to take my kids or me to play sports. So I am not sure whether I should get one (that's why I said maybe at a start). But the green light from the boss may not be for long.

Anyway, I have been looking for Defender post Td5 mainly due to better seats and interior and looks from the outside. I found some 2.4 Defender which is not that bad in term of price and condition and mostly is around 2010 Defender. I also been reading some post regarding 2.4 and but mostly are old posts.
Now my questions are:
1. Is 2.4 that bad or all the issues had been rectified by now?
2. Are they all having issue or only few bad ones out there?
3. Should I budget a replacement engine in the future?
4. Should I wait until I can afford 2.2 Puma?

I remember in the early year of having Td5, people used to say Td5 is bad engine compare to 300Tdi at that time. My Td5 was also need to have head done gasket and change to cooler thermostat. Not to mention other issue like front shaft, XYZ, etc but that not engine related. But now I am hearing a lot of people actually like Td5 and some said it is the most tunable engine. is it the same as 2.4 puma? is it because they haven't really know what the issue and how to rectify it?

Below article said Td5 is the best engine Defender ever has.
The best ever Defender engines | Auto Express (https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/land-rover/defender/100597/the-best-ever-defender-engines)



Thanks,
Gus

Hi Gus

I have not owned a 2.4 but do have a 2.2 and a Td5 (and a 300Tdi ). My preference for day to day is definitely the Td5. The puma gearbox gets very tiring after a while as you are constantly changing gears. The R380 in the Td5 (and the 300Tdi) IMO is much more user friendly box giving you a wider power range to play with before you change. The puma is an acquired driving style, I find you need to accelerate into corners much earlier than with either of the others! End of the day your choice but don’t discount the Td5.

We love all our defenders and do not anticipate ever selling them. The smile factor every time you hop in, and the comradeship on the road with the defender wave! Can really make your day sometimes.

Cheers Simon

[POD]

I'm not sure what the reliability problems are but then I've only done 160,000km in mine, it had 120k on it when I bought it and it clocked over 280k last week. I've solo traveled some of the most remote locations in Australia without significant problems. What are the reliability problems I should start worrying about?- if I know, I'll be ready for them when they come up.

[jon3950]

I'm not sure what the reliability problems are but then I've only done 160,000km in mine, it had 120k on it when I bought it and it clocked over 280k last week. I've solo traveled some of the most remote locations in Australia without significant problems. What are the reliability problems I should start worrying about?- if I know, I'll be ready for them when they come up.

Mate, sounds like you bought a dud. I’d be getting rid of it as fast as you can. With that sort of history you’d be lucky to see 500k I reckon. Should have bought a Cruiser - now they’re reliable.

[rar110]

Hi all,

I may be in the market for Defender. The boss already give me a green light. I think she fed up of me sending Defender on sale almost every night [bigsmile]
Currently I have a Discovery 2 Td5 and only being use 1-2 times a week to take my kids or me to play sports. So I am not sure whether I should get one (that's why I said maybe at a start). But the green light from the boss may not be for long.

Anyway, I have been looking for Defender post Td5 mainly due to better seats and interior and looks from the outside. I found some 2.4 Defender which is not that bad in term of price and condition and mostly is around 2010 Defender. I also been reading some post regarding 2.4 and but mostly are old posts.
Now my questions are:
1. Is 2.4 that bad or all the issues had been rectified by now?
2. Are they all having issue or only few bad ones out there?
3. Should I budget a replacement engine in the future?
4. Should I wait until I can afford 2.2 Puma?

I remember in the early year of having Td5, people used to say Td5 is bad engine compare to 300Tdi at that time. My Td5 was also need to have head done gasket and change to cooler thermostat. Not to mention other issue like front shaft, XYZ, etc but that not engine related. But now I am hearing a lot of people actually like Td5 and some said it is the most tunable engine. is it the same as 2.4 puma? is it because they haven't really know what the issue and how to rectify it?

Below article said Td5 is the best engine Defender ever has.
The best ever Defender engines | Auto Express (https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/land-rover/defender/100597/the-best-ever-defender-engines)



Thanks,
Gus

I would stay with the D2 TD5, unless you’re desparate for more cargo space.

I have owned 110s for 20 years, and I agree with the first response above, the 6 speed was painful.

I’m also not a fan of how Ford matched their gearbox to the Lt230.

The puma interior is very appealing, which is why I took one for a test drive.

IMHO the D2a/D2 is a good combination of modern engineering, modern simplicity, capability, comfort and passenger safety.

[ozscott]

The D2 with a modest lift and legal 31 inch tyres is as capable off-road as a stock Defender (assuming it's a Puma with stock traction control or an Td5 Extreme with traction control...otherwise traction control in the D2 carries the day). Now the Defender lends itself to easier mods and bigger tryes than a D2 but there is nothing in it unless you want to go big lift and big tyres in a Defender and the 100inch D2 wheelbase is in the sweet spot between the 90 and 110. The 110 and 90 departure angle is better but again there isn't much in it and a steel rear bar is cheap for a D2. Factor in the comfort and fun factor if you go a manual V8 and it's an easy choice to make especially when until the new Defender comes out people are still asking mad prices for a Deefer.

Cheers

[Robmacca]

I've got a '09 2.4 PUMA with 175k on the clock... I've only had it since Jul'18 and I've spent a reasonable amount of $$ on it getting it ready for our big trip this year... When I was looking, the prices of the 2.2ltr was out of my range, but the 2.4 seemed to be more of a chance of getting one within my price range. I asked a mate who already had a '11 Puma 2.4 as to which one (2.2 or 2.4) - he told me to look for a 2.4ltr or at least that what told to him when he was looking years before he got his..


Things that I've had to fix on mine since buying is:


> Cracked Exhaust Manifold
> VCV valve replacement
> Passengers rear door central looking not working...
> MAF sensor replaced which turned out to actually be the MAF Senor Plug being faulty


and that's it...
I was fortunate to find one that came with some good mods/upgrades
> Ashcroft Intermediate shaft (or spud shaft) installed
> Front(ARB / Rear(Ashcroft) Lockers
> Cranked Rear Trailing arms
> Extra Oil Capacity for the Transfer Case
> Bullbar/Winch/Lightforce Spotties
> Roofrack
> Sidebars
> Frontrunner Rear Drawer System
> UHF
> Toughdog suspension / rear airbags
> Aux Inner guard Fuel Tank
> Kaymar Rear Tyre Carrier
> Engine Remap

The price I paid was well under the 40k mark that I had budgeted for...


With regards to the Puma 6spd gearbox - I would have to agree with some of the previous comments about changing gears but this can be resolved to a point by skipping some gears instead of going through all the gears when starting/stopping...depending though on the road that u are driving...


not sure if that will help u, but I've also got a old tdi300 Defender and far as performance goes, interior appeal, seating - its like chaulk and cheese between the 2... but I still like BOTH and enjoy BOTH.


Btw: If u have kids - the PUMA would be the go as u seem to get more room in the 2nd row for the kids + far better seats...





Hi all,

I may be in the market for Defender. The boss already give me a green light. I think she fed up of me sending Defender on sale almost every night [bigsmile]
Currently I have a Discovery 2 Td5 and only being use 1-2 times a week to take my kids or me to play sports. So I am not sure whether I should get one (that's why I said maybe at a start). But the green light from the boss may not be for long.

Anyway, I have been looking for Defender post Td5 mainly due to better seats and interior and looks from the outside. I found some 2.4 Defender which is not that bad in term of price and condition and mostly is around 2010 Defender. I also been reading some post regarding 2.4 and but mostly are old posts.
Now my questions are:
1. Is 2.4 that bad or all the issues had been rectified by now?
2. Are they all having issue or only few bad ones out there?
3. Should I budget a replacement engine in the future?
4. Should I wait until I can afford 2.2 Puma?

I remember in the early year of having Td5, people used to say Td5 is bad engine compare to 300Tdi at that time. My Td5 was also need to have head done gasket and change to cooler thermostat. Not to mention other issue like front shaft, XYZ, etc but that not engine related. But now I am hearing a lot of people actually like Td5 and some said it is the most tunable engine. is it the same as 2.4 puma? is it because they haven't really know what the issue and how to rectify it?

Below article said Td5 is the best engine Defender ever has.
The best ever Defender engines | Auto Express (https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/land-rover/defender/100597/the-best-ever-defender-engines)



Thanks,
Gus

[jon3950]

I’m finding the comments on the 6 speed interesting. Its been a long time since I’ve driven anything with an R380 in it so can’t really compare, but I can’t see what the problem is with the 6 speed. I find it a very enjoyable drive, even when commuting - and freeway driving in a Defender is much better with the 6 speed.

That said, I wouldn’t argue with the comments on the Td5. Always liked it, whether in a Defender or a D2 and wouldn’t dismiss either as an option. I loved my D2 and would happily have one again. My only concern with them now is how old they are. Keeping one you already have is one thing but buying another one could mean inheriting a world of pain.

Cheers,
Jon

[clintooo]

I went from a 2004 TD 5 D2 to a 2012 2.2L 110.

I don't regret it. I still miss the sound of the TD5 as the transit motor just doesn't sound right in it. I do miss the auto, the D2a was an easier car to drive. But the defender is a lot more fun.

[Rick Fischer]

Hiyas all

2009MY SVX is a bit more different, though just cosmetically. Love him.

Moved from a 300 000+ D2 (tired after 13 year working for a living) 1/2 of that on Centre and Top corrugations.

SVX deffie from 3yrs and 57 000 :

6 speed not a problem other than the Ford to LR "adaptor" spline having been properly lubricated at initial assembly???

Have BAS remap and find buckets of Torque, tow boat with fully loaded back rarely shift down to 4th. Off road normal camping load, not ever a problem for the correct gear. Comfortably cruises full load and tinny 110kph with an overtaking reserve.

Clutch. Original crap, replaced with latest (my $$$$$) couple of years ago, (done at dealer for oz wide warranty) now fine. (tomorrow????)

Note here: clutch plate and pressure plate did work, just rattled. Final straw was the failure of the centre line slave cylinder, this isn't just a Fomoco thing it is part of all latest Eurotrash cars. External slave and fork no longer acceptable, now we can charge to remove the gearbox too :0(

Heard a few horror stories from non Dealer mechs about getting to centre line slave cylinders. Bleeding is not a joy either.

Vacuum pump - seal, replaced it with the later pump, (2 seals) found out (a few days later mind you) piece of cake to replace seal with aftermarket stock seal......................and, and, and, and it did take a while

Transfer case intermediate shaft leak, strip rebuild case with stainless steel bushing, std non dealer repair (all LR Xfr cases since 1948) leak is messy but is one of those that causes LRs to mark their territory. :0) ...................and is ok if you don't mind a bit of "messy" - li'l/tiny bit of xmission oil blows back a long way :0) Tinny didn't appreciate it :0(

He is hopefully now like "Berger Paints"

Cheers

RF

[DiscoMick]

Our Puma 2.4 is a 2009 and has done 128,000 kms.
It needed a clutch replacement as the springs were rattling. This was a known problem on early ones and there is an LR upgrade.
Otherwise, mechanically its standard.
There is a minor oil leak I'm chasing (it's a Defender).
The plastic heater valve can warp and let warm water through which warms the ventilation air unless the aircon is turned on. A replacement valve is cheap - it's a Fiat part.
The wires carrying the feed through a conduit to the rear door locks can get pinched, particularly if the extended door openers are fitted. A simple fix.
I put a Mantec rear wheel carrier on to take the weight of the wheel off the door. It opens with the door and is great.
I also fitted rear drawers and have a fridge on top and a second battery hidden on its side in the space behind the rear of the drawer. There is a lot more room in the back than in a Discovery.
I recommend upgraded headlight bulbs.
Mine has a Steinbauer chip for a boost of up to 20%.
Make sure the fuel filter down the back near the fuel tank is filled with fuel when a new filter is fitted as there isn't a pump to push it through.
Check for rust in the footwell and around the opera windows. Treat, paint and oil.
The six-speed gearbox is a great improvement because mine will cruise at 100km/h at only 2000 revs in sixth gear, so cruising is very relaxed. Low gear is excellent and the low range first is really crawling. It is averaging about 11 l/100 kms and towing hardly changes that.
Defenders were already very proven and reliable and Transits have been flogged all around the world and abused, so as long as its serviced properly, it should go on for a long time. Mine is a keeper for life.
Hope that helps.

[Chenz]

Couldn't be happier with my 2.4 Puma 130. Been out as remote as you can go, through water crossings and corrugations that would shake the fillings out and have had no major issues. After 120,000, the clutch slave cyclinder leaked so while it was out put in a new clutch which works like a charm. The 6 speed box is great and can cruise at over 100 kph all day.

[BilboBoggles]

I currently own or owned all of the recent iterations of defender. the 2.2 is still in my view the best of them all (but not my favorite)

I liked the 2.4 but it's a rough engine, mine seemed to have issues with it's EGR valve every 40k, and had continual surging issues. I am sure that was a question of finding someone better to fix it than the dealer, but at the end of the day it's quite a rough engine. You won't know this until you drive a 2.2. Just turning the engine off on the 2.2 vs 2.4 is an interesting experience. One just stops quietly and silently, the other shakes the car like a wet dog.

One of my 2.2's has a tune in it, and the power difference is astonishing. (I have an untuned 2.2 to compare to.). I lunched the center diff in that, because it likes to spin the inside front wheel when you floor it around roundabouts, which of course seems to happen often. An Ashcroft ATB has fixed that issue.

The td5 is a good engine, in it's day. But it can be a fragile and very expensive pain in the arse if you are unlucky.

I have a hill that I performance test my cars on, I get a feel for power based on how fast they do at the top of the hill.
2.4 (Stock) 70kmh.
TD5 (Stock) 60kmh,
TD5 (Tuned Stage 1) 75kmh,
2.2(Stock) 75kmh,
2.2(Base Tune) 90kmh!.

That's not really a comparison of the actual power, as gearing etc comes into it. But for me the 2.2 was much more driveable. (I do a lot of heavy towing, 3000kgs often) and the power makes a big difference.)

Perhaps not mentioned too is that the 2.2 has a different ABS/Traction Control unit to the 2.4, I think it was more channels, but it does seem to operate much better than the previous.

At the end of the day - None of these points really makes a difference, your experience of your defender depends purely on the actual defender. I'd get a mint td5 over a rusted POS 2.2 any day, I'd be happy with buying one based on condition and what I can afford. I still drive all of my Defenders, but my favorite land rover to drive is my 1985 county V8...