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DeeJay
21st June 2019, 11:53 AM
Yes, I know this is a Land Rover Forum.
But, as a LR Owner, don't you just get a bit sick of being treated as the "poor cousin" by yota owners. You know, that "sympathetic" or "I don't understand why you don't own a Toyota" attitude.
Heck, my Defender just did 20,000 klm trouble free towing a 1600kg camper..and it's just ticked over 200,000klm. In Port Hedland I thought the alternator was failing ( it wasn't) and the Sparky there paid out big time about how useless Land Rover were in designing a vehicle with the battery under the seat. I simply said maybe they pinched the idea of getting the battery away from the engine heat off Mercedes Benz.
Anyway, I for one want to share some responses from Toyota owners at the announcement. If nothing else it will vent some steam off.






Mark
June 21, 2019 at 11:32 am (https://mr4x4.com.au/new-toyota-landcruiser-300-series-engine-revealed/#comment-451144)
Let me assure you, as a former 2x 200S owner, the V8 diesel is very easy to become unattached from.
I’d go as far as to say, good riddance.
That engine is to Toyota what the Edsel was to Ford.
It might have looked like a winner on paper, but will stand as the one that Toyota should have known better and fractured its reputation for engineering. But then that is also true of the latest HiLux diesels too.
Dust ingression, injector failure by 150k, low mounted turbos, terminal coking up, outlandish parts prices and a design where any routine maintenance is counted in hours rather than minutes.
It should have been a winner but was a dud. Just ask the mining industry and local govt who aren’t buying them.
The LR 3 litre V6 Ford diesel had the same outputs but had to work harder. The Toyota was a lazy engine ripe for future performance upgrades.
200S sold and will still sell in large numbers here for the caravan and horse towers because it’s has achieved such status. It’s seen as the ‘safe bet’ even though it isn’t if you keep one over 90,000km.
And while it is a very capable off roader, if that’s what you want to do with a $85-$125k vehicle, there are better all round choices than this.
Fed up with all of the Toyota costs and miserable engine longevity, we bought a Patrol Y62.
It is a stunningly awesome vehicle and outperforms the 200 in every respect bar fuel consumption around town.
But with their price differentials and TCO, we’ll still be ahead financially after 12 years of owning The Big Nissan than the Toyota.
And loving it!



Brian Murray
June 21, 2019 at 10:38 am (https://mr4x4.com.au/new-toyota-landcruiser-300-series-engine-revealed/#comment-451142)


Ask anyone who regularly has to work on the current V8 Diesel engines, and they will tell you what a poorly designed piece of rubbish they are. Dropping this engine from the Toyota range will be seen by many as a positive move and, depending on how good the replacement is, may actually bring Toyota into the current century. It has a lot of catching up to do though – Toyota diesel engine technology is many years behind the Europeans.




Paul
June 21, 2019 at 10:23 am (https://mr4x4.com.au/new-toyota-landcruiser-300-series-engine-revealed/#comment-451140)


The right way to go,all the knockers will be back.Other brands have had V6 diesels that are just as powerful,and way more economical than the V8 in the cruiser,and just as good if not better at towing.If the new cruiser follows the Discovery 4 with electronic air suspension,even just on the rear,that will improve towing markedly.It also needs a good 8 speed auto to catch up with the competition as well.Remeber when the V8 first arrived many knocked it,but it has sold very well.
The new 300 will no doubt be a winner.




Dan
June 21, 2019 at 10:20 am (https://mr4x4.com.au/jeeps-new-special-edition-night-eagle-models/#comment-451138)


“providing the power to cover long distances of any condition easily, and the capacity to tow 3.5-tonne vans without straining”
Wow, rose coloured glasses much?
First off you don’t need “power” to cover long distances .
Secondly I wouldn’t say a vehicle can tow it’s maximum capacity “without straining” considering in this case that there is roughly only 400kg of payload left available once you are at that point.
While they are good trucks, they aren’t the be all and end all.
They are very expensive relics of a time when displacement was the answer to engineer’s problems and emissions control was not the known issue it is now.

scarry
21st June 2019, 12:25 PM
Their sales tell a different story....

Sure its an old engine,developed over 15 yrs ago.

I know a few that have had no issues at all,done well over 200 000K,with not one repair.

There are knockers of all brands.

LR definitely have had theirs(knockers) for many years,strange they have said themselves, they are benchmarking the new defender on the LC?

Lets not have another Toyota bashing thread pls.[bigsad][biggrin]

Oh,now where is that popcorn......

travelrover
21st June 2019, 12:36 PM
Yes, I know this is a Land Rover Forum.
But, as a LR Owner, don't you just get a bit sick of being treated as the "poor cousin" by yota owners. You know, that "sympathetic" or "I don't understand why you don't own a Toyota" attitude.

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Hi DeeJay

Interesting read there. Always good to see the other side!

On your point above re the sympathetic comments..,, I was refueling my 300Tdi at the Corner store (Cameron Corner) in 1998 and the original owner asked me why I don’t drive a land cr@&&er. I simply said because everybody else does. He thought about it for a little while and said good point, never thought of it like that!

trout1105
21st June 2019, 01:26 PM
There have been No Major changes to the 79 Series and the Hilux for over 10 years and they are still selling like hot cakes, They also retain their value which is something LR really struggles at.[bigwhistle]
If they are a PIS like the OP thinks then all the miners, fishermen, farmers and recreational users of Toyota products Must be stupid, This I doubt very much [biggrin]

Tombie
21st June 2019, 01:55 PM
There have been No Major changes to the 79 Series and the Hilux for over 10 years and they are still selling like hot cakes, They also retain their value which is something LR really struggles at.[bigwhistle]
If they are a PIS like the OP thinks then all the miners, fishermen, farmers and recreational users of Toyota products Must be stupid, This I doubt very much [biggrin]

All the miners are getting rid of them.
Most Recreational users move the new ones on pre-100k
And fishermen use 79s because its all they have to choose at the moment.

The biggest problem fleet are the Toyotas - the reason for their Mining popularity is simple - there was no choice and there was such a ridiculously good price offered.
Mining fleet spend a lot of time being repaired and serviced.

you can not compare fleet buying with quality - they are mutually exclusive when chosen by accountants.

And Yaris sell like hot cakes too... So do little Kias and Hyundais... Doesnt make them a reliable and good beast - just popular.
Look at any 4wd thing - like King products - cheap arse crap, but popular - especially with the Yota crowd.

101RRS
21st June 2019, 03:36 PM
My brother has a 2014 200 series Sahara and it is a fine vehicle - my RRS drives better but is down to personal preference. The main issue with the 200 series is it poor fuel consumption, particularly when towing and as a result my brother is trading the 200 for a HSV Chev Silverado - we wait to see how that goes.

I dont think the Toyota TDV8 is a dud engine, just not as good as it could be - the twin turbo is good but the single turbo is a bit asthmatic and most Toyota owners consider the last of the straight 6 turbo diesels are a better engine than the single turbo TDV8.

Garry

rar110
21st June 2019, 06:48 PM
The Toyota brand has some valuable advantages. The V8 200 and 70 series, and Prado/HiLux/Forerunner vehicles seem to be very satisfying for owners.

My own experience of a recent breakdown in Roma, repeated earlier experiences, that dealers and other independent mechanics don’t really want to even look at a Land Rover.

The Land Rover on/off road driving experience is so much more satisfying. But I don’t have any doubt that Toyota put a lot more effort (understandably they are a bigger company with a big reputation to protect) into QA production design.

I think Toyota diesels are also challenged by increasingly stringent pollution/emissions requirements and customers expecting a Camry like driving experience.

For example the 3.0 diesel injectors seem to require servicing and the new 2.8 diesels have a DPF which has thrown Toyota owners.

ozscott
21st June 2019, 06:49 PM
I think fuel economy only get us so far when comparing LC to LR. It only takes one (...And it will happen) gearbox failure in a D3/4/RR to fail and the running costs are well back in favour of the LC. Early on 200 had issues will oil use and I understand that they need injector replacements and maybe new injector pumps at 160,000k?? But apart from that the 200 seems like a battle tank. No they don't drive as nicely as a Land Rover but they certainly have other attributes.

Cheers

Homestar
21st June 2019, 07:30 PM
There have been No Major changes to the 79 Series and the Hilux for over 10 years and they are still selling like hot cakes, They also retain their value which is something LR really struggles at.[bigwhistle]
If they are a PIS like the OP thinks then all the miners, fishermen, farmers and recreational users of Toyota products Must be stupid, This I doubt very much [biggrin]

No major changes to the Hilux? You’re joking right? It’s like saying there were no major changes from the D4 to the D5. The current model and previous model are chalk and cheese to each other, I’ve had both as company cars so can tell you how different they are. From engine, gearbox and most of the chassis being total new, so is the interior and most importantly the seats. Tow capacity also updated. New model isn’t proving to be half as robust as the previous model though despite it being much more comfortable. They are 2 very different vehicles both in spec and how they drive. Saying they are basically the same for the last 3 1/2 years would be correct.

Homestar
21st June 2019, 07:37 PM
So do little Kias and Hyundais... Doesnt make them a reliable and good beast - just popular.


With Hyundai offering 5 year warranties (soon to be 7) and Kias offering 7 years (soon to be 10) it makes them incredible value for money and I’m sure the OEMs wouldn’t offer such warranties if they were unreliable **** boxes. Having both Hyundai’s and Kias in the family fleet I can tell you they just seem to go. Mates Kia Carnival had its first breakage a few weeks back - it’s 8 years old with 200,000 Km on it and is shown no love other than servicing. The window winder in the back broke on one side - he was gutted. 😆

Tombie
21st June 2019, 09:21 PM
I think fuel economy only get us so far when comparing LC to LR. It only takes one (...And it will happen) gearbox failure in a D3/4/RR to fail and the running costs are well back in favour of the LC. Early on 200 had issues will oil use and I understand that they need injector replacements and maybe new injector pumps at 160,000k?? But apart from that the 200 seems like a battle tank. No they don't drive as nicely as a Land Rover but they certainly have other attributes.

Cheers

Seems like a battle tank? I would never want to be in one...

They are quite fragile - arms, bushes and small clips.
Engine starters go without warning and you need to disassemble half the engine to replace it.
They wallow around, the transmissions shift like crap.

And when towing Toyota tell you to use 4th in the Auto!
Why you see so many towing at pathetically low speeds to keep the consumption down.

A mate just sold his Sahara, and went back to his GU TD42T - his words “It’s better (the GU), not as many features, but it’s better.”

Tombie
21st June 2019, 09:28 PM
With Hyundai offering 5 year warranties (soon to be 7) and Kias offering 7 years (soon to be 10) it makes them incredible value for money and I’m sure the OEMs wouldn’t offer such warranties if they were unreliable **** boxes. Having both Hyundai’s and Kias in the family fleet I can tell you they just seem to go. Mates Kia Carnival had its first breakage a few weeks back - it’s 8 years old with 200,000 Km on it and is shown no love other than servicing. The window winder in the back broke on one side - he was gutted. [emoji38]

Know what all these vehicles get in Thailand?
12 months warranty. That’s all.

In Australia the length of warranty offered doesn’t matter - AC Law protects us beyond that period. Hence the warranties just align to what our consumer protection provides anyway.

This is just marketing to sell them.

101RRS
21st June 2019, 10:08 PM
In Australia the length of warranty offered doesn’t matter - AC Law protects us beyond that period.

Not fore the average person - if you cannot get the ACCC to take on your case (and it generally does not happen) it will be expensive to enforce your rights.

goingbush
21st June 2019, 11:20 PM
Not fore the average person - if you cannot get the ACCC to take on your case (and it generally does not happen) it will be expensive to enforce your rights.

So True. The ACCC is completely useless. All they do is refer you to VCAT , QCAT or whatever jurisdiction your in & they too are just as useless . Been tried by Iveco 4x4 Owners & Lawyers on owners behalf with no result. They are not fit for purpose.

ozscott
22nd June 2019, 03:08 AM
Know what all these vehicles get in Thailand?
12 months warranty. That’s all.

In Australia the length of warranty offered doesn’t matter - AC Law protects us beyond that period. Hence the warranties just align to what our consumer protection provides anyway.

This is just marketing to sell them.Have you been watching Cadogen?

The Consumer Laws are,.in practice, far from a contractual warranty especially at higher k's and years. You can see vehicle manufacturers offering higher warranties as their vehicles improve. Unfortunately JRA haven't to date and the reason is clear. Their vehicles have too many problems for them to cop the costs. I'm a LR tragic of many decades but let's still see things without the rose tint.

The new Defender and other range built in Slovakia is a litmus test for me. If they can't offer at.least 150,000k standard with 5 years and a cheapish 200,000k and 7 year option then that says a lot. My D2 v8 was faultless to 200,000k until it did an alternator. Surely if they can source the right gearbox and can bolt together the Ingeniums with decent cranshafts and bearings this new crop should not cause them warranty heartache when offering a fair dinkum warranty. To offer 3 years 100,000k is just taking the Mick when you are talking 90k plus vehicles and most Discos even hitting the road over 6 figures.

Cheers

trout1105
22nd June 2019, 03:52 AM
No major changes to the Hilux? You’re joking right? It’s like saying there were no major changes from the D4 to the D5. The current model and previous model are chalk and cheese to each other, I’ve had both as company cars so can tell you how different they are. From engine, gearbox and most of the chassis being total new, so is the interior and most importantly the seats. Tow capacity also updated. New model isn’t proving to be half as robust as the previous model though despite it being much more comfortable. They are 2 very different vehicles both in spec and how they drive. Saying they are basically the same for the last 3 1/2 years would be correct.

I stand corrected. The last of the older style Hilux's was 2015 I think.
I have owned a few different models of Hilux over the years and I have had a great run out of all of them.

DeeJay
22nd June 2019, 10:48 AM
With Hyundai offering 5 year warranties (soon to be 7) and Kias offering 7 years (soon to be 10) it makes them incredible value for money and I’m sure the OEMs wouldn’t offer such warranties if they were unreliable **** boxes. Having both Hyundai’s and Kias in the family fleet I can tell you they just seem to go. Mates Kia Carnival had its first breakage a few weeks back - it’s 8 years old with 200,000 Km on it and is shown no love other than servicing. The window winder in the back broke on one side - he was gutted. 😆

Having worked in the small engine industry, one company I worked for in the 80's was the first to introduce 12 months warranty - up from the 3 months industry standard.
The number of "warranty" claims we knocked back as " fair wear and tear", was 90% of the claims.
Something to bear in mind when your Kia starter motor won't work anymore at 160,000 klm.
Taken from the Kia website.

KIA warrants that your new KIA Vehicle is free from defects in material or workmanship, subject to the following terms and conditions. A KIA Dealer will make necessary repairs, using genuine KIA parts, to correct any defects in material or workmanship covered by this warranty without charge to you. Refer to the following pages for specific warranty coverage guidelines and terms and conditions.
Change of Owner
During the warranty period, the KIA New Vehicle Warranty is transferable to subsequent owners of a KIA vehicle.

David

ozscott
22nd June 2019, 11:36 AM
As long as they don't say engines, gearboxes and turbo chargers are wear and tear I think I would survive [emoji15][emoji16][emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787]. Starter motors... well it would be covered by any warranty and at least you have a written contractual warranty that implies the major components will last the life of the warranty period or be replaced/repaired. With Land Rover the issues that would be covered by a similar warranty to Hyundai, Mist Triton etc are the very things, the major things that can write off a 5-7 year old vehicle that LR must provide satisfaction against.

Cheerd

DeeJay
22nd June 2019, 12:53 PM
As long as they don't say engines, gearboxes and turbo chargers are wear and tear I think I would survive [emoji15][emoji16][emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787]. Starter motors... well it would be covered by any warranty and at least you have a written contractual warranty that implies the major components will last the life of the warranty period or be replaced/repaired. With Land Rover the issues that would be covered by a similar warranty to Hyundai, Mist Triton etc are the very things, the major things that can write off a 5-7 year old vehicle that LR must provide satisfaction against.

Cheerd

Yes, most consumers consider that is what warranty means - total replacement, free of charge, for any failure in the warranty period. Doh.

Tweaksta
22nd June 2019, 02:46 PM
To put things into perpective:


My work ute (a 3L Diesel 2009 4WD BT-50) is on 230,000km, with no major repairs ever performed. Drives beautifully. It is more reliable than the newer 3.2l 5 cylinder 2012 BT50s.
Another work ute I sometimes drive is a 2008 2WD 2.7L vvti Hilux Workmate which is thirsty, gutless, has odd harmonic vibrations throughout the rev range and it creaks and groans with only 168,000 km....
My personal car, a 2000 model Subaru Forester GT with mild lift) has done the Oodnadatta Track, Flinders Ranges, Coongie Lakes, Corner Country, Simpson Desert (Big Red multiple times) and Currawinya Nat Park. It has just over 232,000km and the only thing I had to replace was the radiator back at 150,000km. This car still has plenty of life left and we will be taking it to Cape York and possibly the Savannah Way to Kakadu and maybe even into WA. It is a beast in these conditions and can do many things quicker and more efficiently than bigger 4wds. It's a high riding rally car as opposed to a small 4x4.
My LR Freelander 2 had its diff replaced under warranty back at 7000km. It's now at 70k km and, although flawless, I do get some clunking / vibration from the rear on takeoff if turning. I do wonder if this is the beginning of something wearing out. LR say it's fine. I have read reports of these cars lasting into the 300k kms.
Our 2L Carburetted Hiace Poptop camper is on 360,000km. Gets 10l/100km, smells a bit but is not smoky. Most reliable car I have ever seen but the Forester is the most versatile, powerful, enjoyable to drive and super efficient (returning at worst about 11L/100km in the Simpson)..


What point am I trying to make? I don't really know. Just wanted to provide some comparisons.

DiscoMick
22nd June 2019, 04:09 PM
I keep being told about front suspensions having to be replaced in 200s and Hiluxes, including my sons'.

trout1105
22nd June 2019, 04:20 PM
I keep being told about front suspensions having to be replaced in 200s and Hiluxes, including my sons'.

I had a 2006 Hilux from new and traded it in at 332,000k's, All I had to replace was 2x batteries and an alternator during my ownership.
Maybe I looked after my Hilux and treated it better that your son has[bigwhistle]

W&KO
22nd June 2019, 04:51 PM
I had a 2006 Hilux from new and traded it in at 332,000k's, All I had to replace was 2x batteries and an alternator during my ownership.
Maybe I looked after my Hilux and treated it better that your son has[bigwhistle]

Agree .....We run a fleet of bonnet scoop era hi-luxs and a handful of the current models....mine has done 180k and hasn’t had a spanner on it and I don’t hear of any major issues with the others. Fleet means drivers don’t give a ****. I tow 2T trailers with a >200kg ball weight and don’t need airbag helpers...sits level. Sure I exceed the rear axle and TBW at times but it sits on $1.10 all day. No drive line clunks, no intermediate shafts issues

Haven’t seen a single Land Rover product on any of our mine sites and I don’t reckon we will see any of the all new Land Rover (Defender) either which is supposed to smash all others.

scarry
22nd June 2019, 05:04 PM
I had a 2006 Hilux from new and traded it in at 332,000k's, All I had to replace was 2x batteries and an alternator during my ownership.
Maybe I looked after my Hilux and treated it better that your son has[bigwhistle]

I have two Hi Aces here in the driveway,bought new,one has 280000K's,the other 310000K's,never had a spanner on either.They are manuals,and have been loaded almost on GVM,driven as service vehicles.One is 2008,other is 2009.

Haven't even touched the brakes,only replaced batteries,usually every 3 to 4 yrs,and regular services at the stealers.

By far the best vehicles i have ever owned,we also have others with less K's on them,no issues either,even with the DPF's.

We have one 2yr old Mazda Bt 50 in the fleet,and it uses more fuel than the vans,services at Mazda are way more expensive than the Tojo stealers,(some are double the cost[bigsad]),and the cover on the fuel cooler fell off the other day.

I doubt there would be a Land Rover on the planet that would go even 100000k's without some sort of issue,yet alone 300000K's.

Sure they are more complicated,but after 70 plus years,you would think they would have things sorted,hopefully they will with this new Defender,as the last model run was not exactly an engineering masterpiece.

Thats just a fact us LR owners have to live with,and we keep buying them...[biggrin]

Homestar
22nd June 2019, 05:41 PM
Know what all these vehicles get in Thailand?
12 months warranty. That’s all.

In Australia the length of warranty offered doesn’t matter - AC Law protects us beyond that period. Hence the warranties just align to what our consumer protection provides anyway.

This is just marketing to sell them.

Disagree, Australian consumer law isn’t worth the paper it’s written on when it comes to vehicles - we see that all the time how stealers make customers pay time and again for claims that should be covered - unless you can afford legal proceedings, your pretty well left hanging in the wind. Hyundai’s and Kias are some of the most reliable vehicle out there today - that’s why they are doing so well, where others are failing and why the last 2 new vehicles in our family have been these vehicles based on reviews and what’s happening in the real world. After sales service is not bad by stealer standards either - something Holden, Ford, LR and many other could learn from. Not sure what vehicles out there you think are more reliable at the moment.

Homestar
22nd June 2019, 05:53 PM
I keep being told about front suspensions having to be replaced in 200s and Hiluxes, including my sons'.

We have around 100 in our fleet - around a 50/50 split between older and current models - the breakdown data on the whole fleet with some vehicles pushing 250,000km now shows no suspension parts replaced - apart from 3 pairs front shockers, so not sure what that ones about - never heard of it myself.

Tombie
22nd June 2019, 07:58 PM
Agree .....We run a fleet of bonnet scoop era hi-luxs and a handful of the current models....mine has done 180k and hasn’t had a spanner on it and I don’t hear of any major issues with the others. Fleet means drivers don’t give a ****. I tow 2T trailers with a >200kg ball weight and don’t need airbag helpers...sits level. Sure I exceed the rear axle and TBW at times but it sits on $1.10 all day. No drive line clunks, no intermediate shafts issues

Haven’t seen a single Land Rover product on any of our mine sites and I don’t reckon we will see any of the all new Land Rover (Defender) either which is supposed to smash all others.

Don’t see any Mercedes or BMWs on mine sites either.
The bonnet scoop Hiluxes are lined up outside the service bays though. When they can beat the 200s and the 7x’s

Geedublya
23rd June 2019, 11:56 AM
I think fuel economy only get us so far when comparing LC to LR. It only takes one (...And it will happen) gearbox failure in a D3/4/RR to fail and the running costs are well back in favour of the LC. Early on 200 had issues will oil use and I understand that they need injector replacements and maybe new injector pumps at 160,000k?? But apart from that the 200 seems like a battle tank. No they don't drive as nicely as a Land Rover but they certainly have other attributes.

Cheers

You need to check the facts. The ZF 6 speed boxes only give problems when they aren’t serviced. They can do ridiculous distances when serviced properly and will outlast the engines, especially the diesels which fail without warning.

ozscott
23rd June 2019, 01:05 PM
You need to check the facts. The ZF 6 speed boxes only give problems when they aren’t serviced. They can do ridiculous distances when serviced properly and will outlast the engines, especially the diesels which fail without warning.Look. You are incorrect. Yes servicing helps (ie removing the so called sealed for life pan and replacing it with a serviceable pan)) and changing the fluid) but the ZF in the D3 and 4 is a shocker even when serviced. They don't and never have done the sort of mileage that the ZF 4 speed in the D1 or D2 have (unless you think 200k max is reasonable). You get the odd one that does more but many fail at lesser k's than 200k. They were really a bit light duty for the weight and torque of the D3/4. Please follow the following steps 1. Remove rose coloured glasses. 2. Start reading the litany of threads on this forum about the dreaded ZF 6 speed.

101RRS
23rd June 2019, 01:55 PM
Look. You are incorrect. Yes servicing helps (ie removing the so called sealed for life pan and replacing it with a serviceable pan)) and changing the fluid) but the ZF in the D3 and 4 is a shocker even when serviced.

Not sure where you are getting your facts from - but a ZF 6 serviced in accordance with the ZF service requirement is about the most reliable gearbox there is in a modern vehicle.

Graeme
23rd June 2019, 02:17 PM
The white metal status bush versions used in LRs and many other vehicles from mid 2008 though to the end of D4s using the 6-speed needed very frequent oil changes to avoid requiring a rebuild by around 120K. The earlier bronze stator bushes weren't problematic and ZF reverted to them after the white-metal ones failed prematurely. Whilst not a LR design fault, LR is blamed because the gearbox is in a LR.

The same could be said about the 3.0 and 4.4 oil cooler gaskets that can't withstand the heat and all the D4 turbos that were replaced until the revised secondary turbo drain was introduced - blame Ford if you like but the LR needs the work to keep it going.

Geedublya
23rd June 2019, 02:52 PM
Look. You are incorrect. Yes servicing helps (ie removing the so called sealed for life pan and replacing it with a serviceable pan)) and changing the fluid) but the ZF in the D3 and 4 is a shocker even when serviced. They don't and never have done the sort of mileage that the ZF 4 speed in the D1 or D2 have (unless you think 200k max is reasonable). You get the odd one that does more but many fail at lesser k's than 200k. They were really a bit light duty for the weight and torque of the D3/4. Please follow the following steps 1. Remove rose coloured glasses. 2. Start reading the litany of threads on this forum about the dreaded ZF 6 speed.

Yeah right, my D4 V8 had the white metal bush and was at 230 k when sold. Still going strong without any problems.
When oil changes weren't performed the torque converter clutch was damaged and the fibres would contaminate the box causing lack of oil flow. This is what caused the damage. I've spoken at length to a transmission specialist, he has no problem with the ZF box when it is serviced. Though he does have a problem with the transmission coolers and suggests they be replaced before too many kms as they destroy the box when they fail.

The only rose coloured glasses I've seen are yours when you talk about D2s. [bigrolf][bigrolf] Crap motors, crap gearboxes, an interior that disintegrates before your eyes, unbelievable NVH, tiny side mirrors and the list goes on. The D3 was a quantum jump from them. Yes I did own one.

ozscott
23rd June 2019, 03:45 PM
Yeah right, my D4 V8 had the bronze bush and was at 230 k when sold. Still going strong without any problems.
When oil changes weren't performed the torque converter clutch was damaged and the fibres would contaminate the box causing lack of oil flow. This is what caused the damage. I've spoken at length to a transmission specialist, he has no problem with the ZF box when it is serviced. Though he does have a problem with the transmission coolers and suggests they be replaced before too many kms as they destroy the box when they fail.

The only rose coloured glasses I've seen are yours when you talk about D2s. [bigrolf][bigrolf] Crap motors, crap gearboxes, an interior that disintegrates before your eyes, unbelievable NVH, tiny side mirrors and the list goes on. The D3 was a quantum jump from them. Yes I did own one.Hilarous. Nice attack. I wont continue this as people can search this site and see clearly what the faults are with D2 and D3/4 for themselves. Enjoy your vehicle in Rose hue.

Cheers!

loanrangie
23rd June 2019, 03:47 PM
Lots of D3/4 ZF6's displaying issues and failing at less than 200k even with shortened service intervals.
My own vehicle was a 1 owner never towed or used offroad analy serviced vehicle and I'm now getting valve body failure symptoms. And I know it was flushed and new pan/filter done at a dealer at 100k.

ozscott
23rd June 2019, 03:51 PM
Not sure where you are getting your facts from - but a ZF 6 serviced in accordance with the ZF service requirement is about the most reliable gearbox there is in a modern vehicle.Arr...this site to start with. You have been around here long enough to read about the dramas. I know people also that have the boxes go.early. Yes the D2 had issues but the 6 speed ZF was a retrograde step compared to D2 longevity for the R380 manual and the 4 speed ZF.

Cheers
PS. Far out...don't know how I survive with such tiny side mirrors [emoji16]

scarry
23rd June 2019, 04:25 PM
Not sure where you are getting your facts from - but a ZF 6 serviced in accordance with the ZF service requirement is about the most reliable gearbox there is in a modern vehicle.


Umm,no,the 8 speed would be by far.

My indie,one of the largest and most respected in the country, said they have quite a lot of issues with them,torque converters being the main issue.And even if serviced regularly.They do the oil change and flush at 60K towing,80k no towing,and use genuine fluid,not some replacement stuff.The 8 speed they have virtually no issues with.

FWIW,didn't Dazza say on here recently,he has never changed so many failed engines in one model,referring to D3/4?

As for the D2,i loved my last D2,a D2a,and in some ways it was a better and more reliable vehicle than the D4.
Sure it did have a lot of NVH at certain revs,a few Land Rover niggles,easily fixed,but as a remote area,capable off road tourer,a great vehicle.

Oh,and just like my '96 HSV Clubby,i should never have sold that D2a.

ozscott
23rd June 2019, 05:14 PM
Umm,no,the 8 speed would be by far.

My indie,one of the largest and most respected in the country, said they have quite a lot of issues with them,torque converters being the main issue.And even if serviced regularly.They do the oil change and flush at 60K towing,80k no towing,and use genuine fluid,not some replacement stuff.The 8 speed they have virtually no issues with.

FWIW,didn't Dazza say on here recently,he has never changed so many failed engines in one model,referring to D3/4?

As for the D2,i loved my last D2,a D2a,and in some ways it was a better and more reliable vehicle than the D4.
Sure it did have a lot of NVH at certain revs,a few Land Rover niggles,easily fixed,but as a remote area,capable off road tourer,a great vehicle.

Oh,and just like my '96 HSV Clubby,i should never have sold that D2a.Absolutely mate. I am getting very excited about the new Defender because I am expect they will use the 8 speed (maybe a 10 on time but 8 would be fine...) and it is a strong box. Likewise Ingenium motors will hopefully do away for ever with the 2.7 and 3.0 diesel crank issues (And yes the 4.0 D2 head gasket issues from running roo hot issues and Td5 head issues etc etc).

The D5 likewise should have a great life drivetrain.

Cheers

RANDLOVER
23rd June 2019, 05:58 PM
Arr...this site to start with. You have been around here long enough to read about the dramas. I know people also that have the boxes go.early. Yes the D2 had issues but the 6 speed ZF was a retrograde step compared to D2 longevity for the R380 manual and the 4 speed ZF.

Cheers
PS. Far out...don't know how I survive with such tiny side mirrors [emoji16]

I had a D2 and the auto was wasn't very clever, would change up when accelerating hard if I lifted my foot a little to keep the turbo on boost, had to hold the throttle to the floor to get it to perform. My D3's auto is much smarter and smoother, but as you say they seem to have longevity issues, mine's done 230 K and needs a rebuild.

Back on subject, everyone thinks the Cruiser is the best selling 4wd worldwide, with approx. 16 million sold, but according to James May's "Cars Of The People" the Ford F-truck is with 35 million sold IIRC. James May's Cars of the People - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_May%27s_Cars_of_the_People)

scarry
23rd June 2019, 06:08 PM
Back on subject, everyone thinks the Cruiser is the best selling 4wd worldwide, with approx. 16 million sold, but according to James May's "Cars Of The People" the Ford F-truck is with 35 million sold IIRC. James May's Cars of the People - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_May%27s_Cars_of_the_People)

No,its the best selling 4wd wagon(the LC200) in Australia,year on year,but them again,just like the 70 series,the only real opposition it has had for at least the last few years is itself.Before that it was probably the D4,which didn't seem to put a dent in the LC sales.

FWIW,the V8 petrol has now been dropped from the LC line up.It was a pretty old low tech engine,and accounted for less than 5% of sales.They recently also dropped the petrol from the Prado line up,so much for going away from diesels.

ramblingboy42
23rd June 2019, 08:37 PM
I saw a release or leak from Toyota saying it will be a V6 with lots of kw's and tourques (more than the V8) available as both turbo diesel and turbo petrol to be followed up with a hybrid.

Geedublya
24th June 2019, 06:42 AM
Hilarous. Nice attack. I wont continue this as people can search this site and see clearly what the faults are with D2 and D3/4 for themselves. Enjoy your vehicle in Rose hue.

Cheers!

Well you continue to sprout **** so i'll call it out when I see it.

If you look back through the posts 98% of people with problems had them due to lack of servicing. 100K is sometimes too late for a service 40-50K is the max I would recommend. The auto transmission specialist I use recommends 20K (I think that is over servicing) and has seen over 800k kms from ZF boxes.

ozscott
24th June 2019, 06:47 AM
Well you continue to sprout **** so i'll call it out when I see it.Mate you are off the chain. Have you been wearing your rose coloured glasses during every ZF 6 speed thread on this site? Did you read the posts above other than mine before your little rant?

ozscott
24th June 2019, 06:54 AM
The general consensus on this forum is that when buying a LR with 6 speed ZF is to set aside a healthy budget for an auto replacement (Just like with a D2 V8 I wouldn't buy one without setting aside some green stuff for head gaskets, ARP head studs, new radiator and an inline thermostat, or with TD5 replacing plastic head pins if the motor has them, new injector lume etc).
Cheers

ozscott
24th June 2019, 06:57 AM
Well you continue to sprout **** so i'll call it out when I see it.

If you look back through the posts 98% of people with problems had them due to lack of servicing. 100K is sometimes too late for a service 40-50K is the max I would recommend. The auto transmission specialist I use recommends 20K (I think that is over servicing) and has seen over 800k kms from ZF boxes.I see you have added a bit more than a rant. Which ZF's have done over 800k? Bet it's not 6 speed in D3 or 4.[emoji16]

Again read some of the comments above. Read more widely. Go and talk to.workshops that have to deal with them. It is a notorious problem. Now the 8 speed is a different beast.

Cheers

Geedublya
24th June 2019, 07:09 AM
Mate you are off the chain. Have you been wearing your rose coloured glasses during every ZF 6 speed thread on this site? Did you read the posts above other than mine before your little rant?

OK find me some examples of a ZF 6HP26 that has failed with servicing every 40-50K and you may have a point but judging by your past abilities to read posts I doubt you can.

ozscott
24th June 2019, 07:11 AM
OK find me some examples of a ZF 6HP26 that has failed with servicing every 40-50K and you may have a point but judging by your past abilities to read posts I doubt you can.Mate I have better things to do with my time. It's your baby. Peace out.

rar110
24th June 2019, 08:16 AM
I was talking to the ZF workshop in Sydney who do the rebuilds, about frequency of failure of 6hp26, including the Ford 6R80 equivalent. There was a huge range in terms of km done at time of failure, eg a taxi on original box had done close to 1 million km.

ozscott
24th June 2019, 08:29 AM
I was talking to the ZF workshop in Sydney who do the rebuilds, about frequency of failure of 6hp26, including the Ford 6R80 equivalent. There was a huge range in terms of km done at time of failure, eg a taxi on original box had done close to 1 million km.Yes mate. No doubt. The taxi however is what 1 to 1.5 tonne lighter than D3/4 And not towing. Also the stock Barra motor whilst torquey did not produce at low revs what the 2.7 and 3.0 TD produces. Horses for courses. The 6 speed ZF would be fine in a Falcon. Cheers

ozscott
24th June 2019, 08:37 AM
Look bottom line is people can ask around and read up on this site and make up their own mind. I have had mates and wheeled with and in D3 and D4 and they are great vehicles in terms of capability and strength of body and chassis and ride quality on the highway and high speed dirt. However second hand potential purchasers (ie purchasing where the cosetting 40k to 50k servicing of the auto referred to above (Also take into account tbr costs of same especially with the not exactly cheap fluid) was likely never done, need to be eyes wide open to likelihood of trans failure at an early stage and the possibility, albeit less likely, of catastrophic TD engine failure in both 2.7 and 3.0 guise (costs of that are huge. Auto replacement cheaper circa $7k depending on where done). As long as you do the maths and are happy with the risks all good. It's not a vehicle to buy without a decent risk analysis and piggy bank.

Cheers

Arch
24th June 2019, 10:40 AM
Can we hold on, I need to go get more popcorn

I own a bonnet scoop hilux (350,000kms) and an X5 with a ZF 6 speed (210,000kms). They will both keep going for many years to come.

DiscoMick
24th June 2019, 11:41 AM
I thought the best-sellibg 4wd in the world was the Nissan X-Trail, but I don't have time to search for the figures right now.

Vern
24th June 2019, 01:02 PM
I thought the best-sellibg 4wd in the world was the Nissan X-Trail, but I don't have time to search for the figures right now.I also thought the y62/amarda out sold the 200 world wide.

scarry
24th June 2019, 01:26 PM
I was talking to the ZF workshop in Sydney who do the rebuilds, about frequency of failure of 6hp26, including the Ford 6R80 equivalent. There was a huge range in terms of km done at time of failure, eg a taxi on original box had done close to 1 million km.

Mechanical parts on taxis,just like trucks often last a long time because they are on the road all the time and don’t cool down.

It’s the cooling down and warming up of engines,gearboxes,diffs,etc that wears them out.

cripesamighty
24th June 2019, 02:06 PM
Yep, gotta agree with that. My 2006 TDV6 D3 has 528,000kms on it. It was used by a tourism operator doing big Km's every year running people up the West Coast of WA, so it effectively has taxi mileage on it. It is still in very good condition as it was religiously serviced - not only because I bought it off the Baptist Church who were the second owner! As far as I can tell from the records I got at sale time, it still has the original engine, transmission and gearbox.

rick130
24th June 2019, 06:01 PM
FWIW i saw the second current shape Hilux burning oil badly this morning.
The first was two weeks ago and continuously burning for 20 highway km, this morning's ute was emitting big, big clouds of blue on each gear change.

Not something I'm used to seeing from a Toyota....

Homestar
24th June 2019, 07:49 PM
My faulty DPF have caused both those issues in the last few weeks - sometimes clouds of blue smoke on gear changes or acceleration, other times a continuous blue haze out the back for half an hour. Since the DPF ‘overhaul’ conducted last week, it’s clean as a whistle again.

101RRS
24th June 2019, 07:56 PM
Not something I'm used to seeing from a Toyota....

You are joking aren't you - any Toyota diesel I follow no matter whether old or new is usually belching out black smoke if under any sort of load.

rick130
24th June 2019, 08:13 PM
You are joking aren't you - any Toyota diesel I follow no matter whether old or new is usually belching out black smoke if under any sort of load.

This was blue oil smoke Gary.
Looked like oil smoke.
Smelt like burning oil.

Diesel smoke is something else entirely.

scarry
25th June 2019, 07:02 AM
My faulty DPF have caused both those issues in the last few weeks - sometimes clouds of blue smoke on gear changes or acceleration, other times a continuous blue haze out the back for half an hour. Since the DPF ‘overhaul’ conducted last week, it’s clean as a whistle again.

Until next time.[biggrin]

INter674
25th June 2019, 07:39 AM
FWIW i saw the second current shape Hilux burning oil badly this morning.
The first was two weeks ago and continuously burning for 20 highway km, this morning's ute was emitting big, big clouds of blue on each gear change.

Not something I'm used to seeing from a Toyota....


Yup...seen 2 in Tassie in last 2 weeks...daughter and I were gob smacked at the blue smoke as it/they accelerated...cleared up later on. Made us feel better about our much cheaper D2a TD5 which even when flogged towing the boys Patrol projects home blows no smoke whatsoever...

trout1105
25th June 2019, 07:49 AM
Until next time.[biggrin]

Most EGR systems cause smokey engines after a while regardless of Make, That's why it is so popular to delete or blank off the EGR systems.
My little Nissan Navara smoked like a fogging machine until I blanked of the EGR.

Phil B
25th June 2019, 08:07 AM
My 2016 work Prado has had a new DPF under warranty recall, has the software upgrade twice, and has had the DPF “burn out” three times in 126k
Still smokes (blue) on occasions on acceleration
Glad a don’t have to pay for it!

AndyG
25th June 2019, 10:36 AM
Toyota Troopies in PNG still have the non turbo straight six, after reading this thread, maybe im lucky, not to mention the manual box.[thumbsupbig]

Homestar
25th June 2019, 11:30 AM
Until next time.[biggrin]

Yep - they still have to replace it - but some time in September by the sounds of it - no idea how long I've got before I start literally smoking cars off the road again. [biggrin]

Homestar
25th June 2019, 11:32 AM
Yup...seen 2 in Tassie in last 2 weeks...daughter and I were gob smacked at the blue smoke as it/they accelerated...cleared up later on. Made us feel better about our much cheaper D2a TD5 which even when flogged towing the boys Patrol projects home blows no smoke whatsoever...

This is again, caused by the appalling DPF's in them and why Toyota can't keep up with the supply of replacements currently - it must be costing them a bomb. It's not an engine issue.

scarry
25th June 2019, 12:32 PM
Yep - they still have to replace it - but some time in September by the sounds of it - no idea how long I've got before I start literally smoking cars off the road again. [biggrin]

Yer i saw a late model Hi lux smoking as well yesterday.A hell of a lot of smoke comes out of them.

No props with the vans yet,fingers crossed,i recon it probably has the same DPF.

Last week a 3L Patrol shot past me bellowing smoke,way above the speed limit.

Sure enough about 5 k's further on its parked.[biggrin]

Phil B
25th June 2019, 01:25 PM
Patrol=grenade

ozscott
25th June 2019, 01:35 PM
Patrol=grenadePhil I think you are talking about a particular small capacity diesel motor in the GU. I have not heard of any issues with the newer V8 petrol in the current shape nor any issues with the other diesels in the GU range...have you?
Cheers

Homestar
25th June 2019, 01:38 PM
Pre 2003 3.0 was the grenade. Think the current crop is pretty good.

ozscott
25th June 2019, 01:44 PM
Pre 2003 3.0 was the grenade. Think the current crop is pretty good.Yep my brother had the 2.8 slow but reliable . Blew a head gasket but kept running for quite a while. The 3.0 was considered a grenade. The 4.2 was a Legendry motor.

Cheers

Phil B
25th June 2019, 01:51 PM
Pre 2003 3.0 was the grenade. Think the current crop is pretty good.

No I was referring to the older GU motor that used to grenade.
I have heard that the new motor is good but very thirsty

ozscott
25th June 2019, 01:54 PM
Compared to other big petrols the new V8 is quite frugal. Also not as bad as the big petrols in the 100 series Cruisers . Cheers

Phil B
25th June 2019, 01:59 PM
As usual it probably depends how heavy your right foot is.
A friend of mine has one and he says it is very thirsty around town but much better on the freeway. He hasn’t towed anything heavy yet but said his small camper trailer makes very little difference to consumption.
I’ll try and get some actual figures from him.

Vern
25th June 2019, 04:28 PM
As usual it probably depends how heavy your right foot is.
A friend of mine has one and he says it is very thirsty around town but much better on the freeway. He hasn’t towed anything heavy yet but said his small camper trailer makes very little difference to consumption.
I’ll try and get some actual figures from him.Mine does 12.8L/100 everyday driving, high 10's, low 11's on the highway, 15 towing the camper, and we aren't afraid to use all 400 horsepowers[emoji6]

Phil B
25th June 2019, 04:48 PM
That’s interesting
I’ll check and see what my mate is getting but I’m sure it’s much more than that

Phil B
25th June 2019, 04:58 PM
So.....
His was using between 15&16 around town and slightly more towing his camper
He complained and they did a “software upgrade” at his next service. He’s getting about the same as you now, about 12.
He is very happy with it.

Vern
25th June 2019, 05:18 PM
What year is his? Mine is a series4 2018 with VVEL, about 2-3L/100 more efficient than the non VVEL models

ozscott
25th June 2019, 05:44 PM
These are great figures

W&KO
25th June 2019, 05:47 PM
FWIW i saw the second current shape Hilux burning oil badly this morning.
The first was two weeks ago and continuously burning for 20 highway km, this morning's ute was emitting big, big clouds of blue on each gear change.

Not something I'm used to seeing from a Toyota....

I have spotted 3 over the last 12 months....blue smoke pouring out. I agree you don’t see this from any modern cars these days. Given the number they have on the road I supposed there will be the odd Monday built engine.

Much like the ticking time bomb in the discos.

INter674
26th June 2019, 07:30 AM
No problems with the latest v8 patrol...and they will take 35" wheels without many dramas. I can't understand why sales are so slow vs 200 series as they are a better and cheaper car.

Must be people think diesels are cheaper to run😅

I think the V8 Patrol is a bit of a sleeper...but resale prices are slowly rising as they become better known. .

Off road I believe consumption can rise to 20l/100ks or more
But they have a big tank so range is good.

Oh and check out what the Arabs do with them..eg twin turbos etc etc😀

Arch
26th June 2019, 07:35 AM
I have spotted 3 over the last 12 months....blue smoke pouring out. I agree you don’t see this from any modern cars these days. Given the number they have on the road I supposed there will be the odd Monday built engine.

Much like the ticking time bomb in the discos.

That's the DPF not burning properly. It is an issue in the Aus market probably due to poor diesel quality. It needs the 5th injector cleaned and probably a firmware upgrade.

The 1GD engine is also found in the Prados and now the Hiace but the DPF has a different design and in some vehicles a manual burn button if you aren't doing highway kms.

scarry
26th June 2019, 08:29 AM
That's the DPF not burning properly. It is an issue in the Aus market probably due to poor diesel quality. It needs the 5th injector cleaned and probably a firmware upgrade.

The 1GD engine is also found in the Prados and now the Hiace but the DPF has a different design and in some vehicles a manual burn button if you aren't doing highway kms.

The diesel Hi Ace has a manual burn switch,and a gauge so the driver knows when it needs a burn off.This has been fitted since the first model had a DPF,and it was the 3.0L not the 2.8L.

I can’t understand why this wasn’t standard not all their models,although I think it was on some of the 70 series.

Cost cutting I suppose.

Arch
26th June 2019, 09:18 AM
That's the DPF not burning properly. It is an issue in the Aus market probably due to poor diesel quality. It needs the 5th injector cleaned and probably a firmware upgrade.

The 1GD engine is also found in the Prados and now the Hiace but the DPF has a different design and in some vehicles a manual burn button if you aren't doing highway kms.

"The diesel Hi Ace has a manual burn switch,and a gauge so the driver knows when it needs a burn off.This has been fitted since the first model had a DPF,and it was the 3.0L not the 2.8L.

I can’t understand why this wasn’t standard not all their models,although I think it was on some of the 70 series.

Cost cutting I suppose."



Cost cutting and not fully acknowledging the fuel quality situation... we really get 3rd world fuel. Yes, the updated V8 with the DPF has the switch.

DiscoMick
26th June 2019, 12:53 PM
Raises the question of why an upgrade to the latest fuel standard has been delayed, as it appears to be causing problems for some vehicles whose filters don't like our dirty fuel.

W&KO
26th June 2019, 01:22 PM
Higher quality fuel will cost more at the bowser

Vern
26th June 2019, 03:20 PM
No problems with the latest v8 patrol...and they will take 35" wheels without many dramas. I can't understand why sales are so slow vs 200 series as they are a better and cheaper car.

That seems to only be here in Australia, because petrol you know! It out sells the 200 everywhere else in the world apparently, and as you said, huge in Saudi Arabia.
Heaps of guys here have stepped out of 200's and into patrols and say it's the best move they have made.

bsperka
26th June 2019, 03:25 PM
That seems to only be here in Australia, because petrol you know! It out sells the 200 everywhere else in the world apparently, and as you said, huge in Saudi Arabia.
Heaps of guys here have stepped out of 200's and into patrols and say it's the best move they have made.Designed for the Arab market, which is why it's so tough. And why it's only available with a petrol engine.

101RRS
26th June 2019, 03:40 PM
Designed for the Arab market, which is why it's so tough. And why it's only available with a petrol engine.

And no one wants them here and that is why they have to almost give them away to move them on.

pop058
26th June 2019, 04:21 PM
Secret spy pics of a motor being test fitted in an 80 series mule. At last some real HP. [biggrin]

152254 152255

Vern
26th June 2019, 04:26 PM
Designed for the Arab market, which is why it's so tough. And why it's only available with a petrol engine.Possibly, but as efficient and reliable as they are, who wants a diesel.

ozscott
26th June 2019, 04:28 PM
And no one wants them here and that is why they have to almost give them away to move them on.Shots fired! Shots fired!
[emoji16]

Vern
26th June 2019, 04:28 PM
And no one wants them here and that is why they have to almost give them away to move them on.I see more of them around here than 200's these days.
If no one wanted them, they would be stacked up at every dealer, but instead, it's a 2-3month wait from ordering.

Vern
26th June 2019, 04:30 PM
Shots fired! Shots fired!
[emoji16]Just like no one wants range rover sports here[emoji6]

V8Ian
26th June 2019, 08:10 PM
"The diesel Hi Ace has a manual burn switch,and a gauge so the driver knows when it needs a burn off.This has been fitted since the first model had a DPF,and it was the 3.0L not the 2.8L.

I can’t understand why this wasn’t standard not all their models,although I think it was on some of the 70 series.

Cost cutting I suppose."



Cost cutting and not fully acknowledging the fuel quality situation... we really get 3rd world fuel. Yes, the updated V8 with the DPF has the switch.
Depending on what improvements were made to the fuel, it could change many aspects. Currently our diesel just scrapes in as a non-DG. Any increase in cetane will bump it into the DG category with all the ramifications that entails.

Disco-tastic
27th June 2019, 07:52 AM
Iwasspeaking to a local builder who recently upgraded his work utes from the 3.2 diesel ranger to the dodge ram 1500 5.7L hemi V8 and he says the fuel economy is better eith the Ram. Plus its bigger, tows more and sounds way better.

Base model is $80k and he is a happy chap.

Tombie
27th June 2019, 08:52 AM
Iwasspeaking to a local builder who recently upgraded his work utes from the 3.2 diesel ranger to the dodge ram 1500 5.7L hemi V8 and he says the fuel economy is better eith the Ram. Plus its bigger, tows more and sounds way better.

Base model is $80k and he is a happy chap.

Base model is 845kg payload - of which ALL tow ball down weight must be subtracted according to RAM.
So stuff a van on with 350kg on the ball and you have 495kg to play with.
Drop in 2 adults, 2 teenage kids and there goes another 260+kg leaving 235kg to fit a bar at 75kg - down to 160kg.

Want to pack that spacious tub lightly [emoji41]

Worse if you go the Laramie 1500 as load is 800kg. And a smaller fuel tank.

Even the RAM 2500 only has 913kg to start with.

Disco-tastic
27th June 2019, 09:38 AM
Base model is 845kg payload - of which ALL tow ball down weight must be subtracted according to RAM.
So stuff a van on with 350kg on the ball and you have 495kg to play with.
Drop in 2 adults, 2 teenage kids and there goes another 260+kg leaving 235kg to fit a bar at 75kg - down to 160kg.

Want to pack that spacious tub lightly [emoji41]

Worse if you go the Laramie 1500 as load is 800kg. And a smaller fuel tank.

Even the RAM 2500 only has 913kg to start with.Fair points. I was more pointing out that, in his experience, a 3T V8 petrol ute that can tow 4.5T was more economical than a 3.2L TD in almost every situation he uses it. He also said it was more economical towing a 3T van than his mates 200 series.

Vern and Ozscott have had similar experiences with their patrols, and i find it amazing that those large V8s are so economical.

ozscott
27th June 2019, 01:59 PM
I don't have a Patrol. I was just recalling a few people on here and elsewhere who reported good economy.

Cheers

Disco-tastic
27th June 2019, 02:21 PM
I don't have a Patrol. I was just recalling a few people on here and elsewhere who reported good economy.

CheersMy bad. I thought I'd read you had one.

trout1105
27th June 2019, 02:41 PM
Base model is 845kg payload - of which ALL tow ball down weight must be subtracted according to RAM.
So stuff a van on with 350kg on the ball and you have 495kg to play with.
Drop in 2 adults, 2 teenage kids and there goes another 260+kg leaving 235kg to fit a bar at 75kg - down to 160kg.

Want to pack that spacious tub lightly [emoji41]

Worse if you go the Laramie 1500 as load is 800kg. And a smaller fuel tank.

Even the RAM 2500 only has 913kg to start with.

Do the same Math with a D4 or D5[bigwhistle]

cjc_td5
27th June 2019, 02:43 PM
Do the same Math with a D4 or D5[bigwhistle]Yep and you'll get a better result as, due to the air suspension, the tow ball weight does not come off GVM.

Tombie
27th June 2019, 07:14 PM
Do the same Math with a D4 or D5[bigwhistle]

I have - you get more in one...

And it’s Maths in Australia [emoji106]

101RRS
27th June 2019, 07:19 PM
Do the same Math with a D4 or D5[bigwhistle]

Buy we are talking about huge Yank Tanks that can tow heaps but carry nothing and are marketed to solve the worlds touring issues.

The Yank Tank Utes can generally carry less than a typical Jap dual cap ute. My brother with his Silverado has to put every thing in the caravan because the ute cannot carry anything after a full fuel load, the tow ball weight and him and his missus are in the cab.

Good tow rating though.

pop058
27th June 2019, 07:24 PM
Buy we are talking about huge Yank Tanks that can tow heaps but carry nothing and are marketed to solve the worlds touring issues.

The Yank Tank Utes can generally carry less than a typical Jap dual cap ute. My brother with his Silverado has to put every thing in the caravan because the ute cannot carry anything after a full fuel load, the tow ball weight and him and his missus are in the cab.

Good tow rating though.

Sounds like a 200 Series LC. [biggrin]

trout1105
27th June 2019, 07:43 PM
Buy we are talking about huge Yank Tanks that can tow heaps but carry nothing and are marketed to solve the worlds touring issues.

The Yank Tank Utes can generally carry less than a typical Jap dual cap ute. My brother with his Silverado has to put every thing in the caravan because the ute cannot carry anything after a full fuel load, the tow ball weight and him and his missus are in the cab.

Good tow rating though.

The Tare on my single cab 79 series is 2180kg and the GVM is 3400kg.
The drawbar weight of our van is 220kg which leaves up to 1000kg to play with, This is why I bought the 79 series as a "Go Anywhere" Tug[thumbsupbig]

101RRS
27th June 2019, 08:48 PM
Yes but you can only tow 3500kg with a max ball weight of 350kg - the yank tanks even though they cannot carry much in the vehicle can tow a lot more than 3500kg.

Anyway the 79 series is gutless for its engine size - that is why my brother went from his 11MY 79 to a 14MY 200 series which he finds marginal to a 19MY Silverado.