PROJECT 2A, New Headlight wiring up grade

[drivesafe]

Hi folks, at long, LONG last, after receiving quite a few requests for the headlight wiring upgrade kit, I have finally got my act together and have a new HEADLIGHT WIRING UPGRADE PROJECT just about ready to go.

The biggest single advantage of this new project is that you will NOT need to workout which are the correct wires in the old loom as the new loom simply plugs into the existing 3 pin headlight plug ( H4 type ). This will not only save a lot of time but means you don’t really need all that much knowledge about vehicle electrics and you don’t have to first workout if the vehicle has positive or negative switched headlights.

The set up is designed to be a “ Plug-and-Play “ installation

The reason for posting this and the NEW DRIVING LIGHT WIRING PROJECT ahead of having the kit ready is because the chain stores BURSONS, have Philips Automotive Globes on special for this month ( MAY 06 ) at around 30% off and that makes these globes very competitive and as you may have gathered, I personally think the Philips globes are Superior to other brands. So if you are seriously thinking about doing an up grade and want to use the Philips globes, now is the time to buy.

NOTE :- The last paragraph will be removed at the end of the month


This one is based around a different type of relay that will dramatically reduce the complexity and installation time of a headlight upgrade.

The diagram bellow shows a much simpler layout for those wishing to up grade.

Although I will have a kit for H4 type headlight globes, ready in the next couple of days, the project will be just as easy to do by those who want to do it themselves.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/02/873.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2006/05/106.jpg

[JDNSW]

Only problem I can see with this is my 2a and most of the others I have seen over the years, including two out of three my mobile parts supplies do not have H4 connectors on the existing headlights. My impression is that although the H4 connector is listed from suffix B on these were not fitted in Australia until the headlights moved into the mudguards in about 69. A lot of these may have been converted however - I have been thinking about converting mine, and probably put a relay in at the same time.

(I have no problems identifying wires etc, but others may have problems)

John

[drivesafe]

Hi John, I will eventually be making a kit available to accommodate other types of headlight fittings but there will be some additional work involved, as you have already workout.

The locating and identifying of the existing headlight wiring can be a difficult task for many people, so I have to makeup a step by step procedure that can be followed to make it a bit easier to fit the kits.

Which ever way you go, upgrading headlight wiring on older model vehicles, Landies or otherwise, does have a number of advantages.

The obvious and usually the main reason for upgrading, is to increase headlight out put but in many cases, the existing headlight switch not only controls the operation of the headlights but the switch also provides all the power, which usually leads to the switch melting and / or wearing out.

As the headlight upgrade removes this high current from the switch, it should mean that the switch never needs to be replaced again.

This alone will more than cover the cost of the upgrade kit.

Cheers.

[JDNSW]

Yes, I am aware of all this and fitted a relay to my 110 several years ago - this installation is very similar to your kit, but I cut into the wiring, partly because the incident that prompted me to do it was the failure of the H4 connector in the LH headlight (with standard bulbs). The main difference from your circuit diagram was that I took the power feed from the alternator output terminal. This is only six inches from the relay (4BD1 engine), where the battery is about six feet, and will have a higher voltage anyway under driving conditions.

John

[drivesafe]

Originally posted by JDNSW
I took the power feed from the alternator output terminal.

Hi again John, as the Defender battery is so far away, there may be some advantage to picking up the power for the lights at the alternator but as a rule I never pick up there because picking up all power at the battery tends to soften the change in charge requirements and lessen the jolt to the alternator.

Also note that all manufactures make their supply connections at or after the battery, including your defender, so there must be some reason for this.

By fitting adequately thick enough cable in the first place should result in equally bright lights.

Cheers.

[JDNSW]

Originally posted by drivesafe+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(drivesafe)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-JDNSW
I took the power feed from the alternator output terminal.

Hi again John, as the Defender battery is so far away, there may be some advantage to picking up the power for the lights at the alternator but as a rule I never pick up there because picking up all power at the battery tends to soften the change in charge requirements and lessen the jolt to the alternator.

Also note that all manufactures make their supply connections at or after the battery, including your defender, so there must be some reason for this.

By fitting adequately thick enough cable in the first place should result in equally bright lights.

Cheers.[/b][/quote]

Supply connections on the County are at the starter solenoid as with many cars. The reason for the particular location is usually manufacturing convenience rather than anything else. Picking up power away from the alternator will not lessen the switching "jolt" to the alternator to any extent - it will only be lessened by the inductance of the extra wire, which is negligible. Certainly, if all wiring and connections are adequate and in good shape there will be no significant difference in connecting to the alternator, but if any of these are less than perfect, the alternator will be better.

You need to think of it the way the aviation industry does - the alternator supplies power, the battery is only a backup. Same system, just a different way of looking at it!
John

[drivesafe]

Sorry John but that couldn’t be further from what actually happens.

I’d be the first to state that you are going to have a higher voltage at the alternator but the battery acts as a huge capacitor.

Motors in particular, will draw high currents for anything from a few milli seconds to a couple of seconds when first starting up.

A standard 100w driving light globe will pull up to 200 AMPs for a few milli seconds, till the filament heats up, and if you are running 4 driving lights and you add in what your high beam is going to pull, then you are looking at well over a 1,000 AMP spike and it’s got to come from somewhere.

Both the cable running from the alternator to the battery and the battery, itself, act as a surge protector for the alternator.

By putting the light power wire at the alternator, you are not only defeating the battery’s benefits but the cable between the battery and the alternator now also works against the battery being able to supply this current surge.

You may like setting up that way and fine, that’s your choice, but for the long term effects this sort of set up has on the alternator, I go with the manufactures preferred set up.

Cheers.

[JDNSW]

I have to disagree with your reasoning again. The initial surge will come from the battery regardless of whether the connection is to the alternator of battery. The voltage drop at the alternator will be virtually the same in either case since for the time involved the inductance of the wiring is negligible - There will only be a somewhat greater voltage drop, but the timing of it will be essentially identical.
In fact, if you are running that number of lights, it is likely that the current initial current will be a lot lower than predicted simply because the voltage is a lot lower, so you will get a soft start effect. And unless the diodes on the alternator are very under rated, the effect is likely to be just as bad on the battery as the alternator.

But, again, in practice, if all wiring is adequate, and all connections good, it will make little difference whether the power is supplied from the alternator or the battery, except that in the case of the 110 there is about six feet less wire, and in all cases the voltage at the alternator will be higher than at the battery (even if not much), giving brighter lights. (Alternator voltage must be above the battery voltage since current is flowing TO the battery, even if the resistance of the charging lead is very small, as it should be)
John

[drivesafe]

Hi John, your mixing voltage spikes with current loads.

A current draw of 200 amps is 200 amps at 12 volts, 14 volts or at 4 volts, the only difference the voltage level will have is the lower the voltage, the longer it takes for the filament to heat up, the longer the high current draw will last.

The Alternator will tolerate this current surge but it appears like a dead short with such a higher current draw.

Whereas the battery is most definitely designed to cope with this kind of current draw, this is exactly how the starter motor acts on a battery.

Cheers.

[JDNSW]

The only difference between a spike and a current load is the time it is flowing. I know of no battery fitted to a Landrover that will still be producing anything like 12 volts at your quoted 1000Amps, or even for that matter at 200. And the actual current draw on switch-on will depend on the voltage and the cold filament resistance, although I suppose you should really look at the battery voltage as fairly fixed and put it as filament resistance plus internal resistance of the battery (which is much higher than that of any capacitor that can deliver similar currents without damage).

This means the lower the voltage, the lower the current, and as you comment, the longer the filament takes to reach operating temperature. All rather academic provided all wiring is adequate.

[drivesafe]

John, what does the voltage of the battery remaining at 12 volts got to do with the current load being caused by the filaments.

Again, using the starter motor as an example. Your vehicle’s battery drops to 8 and in some situations as low as 6 volts while cranking so of cause the battery is not going to remain at 12 volts. As I have already pointed out, the start up current draw is so high that it looks like a dead short at the alternator, when the power is taken directly at the alternator instead of at the battery. A dead short is a low voltage event.

The battery still acts as a current supply during the initial start up of the globes and as such cushions the high current draw before it gets to the alternator.

No matter what the voltage is or drops to, there is still going to be a huge current draw that is way WAY above what the alternator can produce. This high current draw means there is going to be a voltage drop and this is not what the alternator is designed to work against, it’s designed to try and maintain the voltage and it can’t do that when the current draw is far beyond it’s maximum capability, whereas the battery is specifically designed to caters for high current drains and the very reason everything is connected to the battery and not the alternator.

And once again, if this was a better way to wire a vehicle, I’m sure the makers would be doing so.

Cheers.

[JDNSW]

Originally posted by drivesafe


1) John, what does the voltage of the battery remaining at 12 volts got to do with the current load being caused by the filaments.

2) Again, using the starter motor as an example. Your vehicle’s battery drops to 8 and in some situations as low as 6 volts while cranking so of cause the battery is not going to remain at 12 volts. As I have already pointed out, the start up current draw is so high that it looks like a dead short at the alternator, when the power is taken directly at the alternator instead of at the battery. A dead short is a low voltage event.

3) The battery still acts as a current supply during the initial start up of the globes and as such cushions the high current draw before it gets to the alternator.

4) No matter what the voltage is or drops to, there is still going to be a huge current draw that is way WAY above what the alternator can produce. This high current draw means there is going to be a voltage drop and this is not what the alternator is designed to work against, it’s designed to try and maintain the voltage and it can’t do that when the current draw is far beyond it’s maximum capability, whereas the battery is specifically designed to caters for high current drains and the very reason everything is connected to the battery and not the alternator.

5) And once again, if this was a better way to wire a vehicle, I’m sure the makers would be doing so.

Cheers.

I seem to be expressing myself unclearly or something!

But looking at your points. (I'll do my best, but you try thinking straight with a five year old and a seven year old demanding explanations of what you are writing - they just got up!)

1) What I was trying to say is that the battery's electrochemical reaction in the battery still produces the same voltage even though the voltage at the terminals is a lot lower due to internal resistance. But its really irrelevant to my point that the startup current is a lot lower per filament with multiple lights because the battery voltage is lower.

2) A dead short is not an exact term, but implies that the resistance of the device is low compared to the wiring resistance. I have just measured the cold resistance of a bulb - the convenient one to measure was a 20w 24v bulb, which has a cold resistance of 3.5 Ohms. This implies a 100w 12v bulb will have a cold resistance of 0.35 Ohms, and an initial current of 35A at 12v. Even six of these would still only be 200A, and in practice less as the available voltage at the filament due to lowering of the battery voltage and resistance of the wiring would be probably eight volts at best, giving perhaps 150amps surge current. This is hardly a dead short, and in fact if your (single 100w lamp considered for clarity) circuit wiring resistance is of the order of 0.35 Ohms the voltage drop at normal current of over eight amps will be close to 3 volts - completely unacceptable - clearly our total wiring resistance must be way under this, so the cold resistance of the filament cannot be considered as a "dead short". If the wiring resistance is low enough for normal operation, then the cold filament resistance must still be high compared to the wiring resistance.

3) Certainly the battery supplies the current surge at startup - but it does this regardless of whether the power feed is taken from the battery or the alternator. The wire between the alternator output is normally the heaviest wire in the system apart from the starter wiring, and the voltage drop along it even at a surge current of several hundred amps will be much less than the drop due to the internal resistance of the battery.

4) As in 3) above - the alternator is not supplying this surge - the battery is, but since the two are connected by a heavy wire with very low resistance the drop across this is marginal and almost the same regardless of which end of the alternator feed the drain is from. The drop in battery voltage is just as large and still appears at the alternator.

5) As I said earlier, the manufacturer's wiring is designed mainly to make manufacture easy, just as long as the results are satisfactory (not best achievable). After all, if the manufacturer's wiring was the best possible, you would not be adding a relay which the manufacturer in their wisdom considered unnecessary.

One point should be noted that although getting the highest practical voltage to the lights will give the brightest light (and even very small increases in voltage make a marked increase in efficiency), operating tungsten filament bulbs at a higher voltage does decrease their life. As against that, note that my 1974 Citroen (which does have relays) still has all its original bulbs, so given good quality bulbs, the life is so long that even operated at a slightly higher voltage, bulb life should not be a problem.

[drivesafe]

Hi John, I don’t know how you arrive at some of you posts and I’m not going through it all again but consider this, if as you say,


Originally posted by JDNSW+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JDNSW)</div><div class='quotemain'>5) As I said earlier, the manufacturer's wiring is designed mainly to make manufacture easy, just as long as the results are satisfactory (not best achievable). After all, if the manufacturer's wiring was the best possible, you would not be adding a relay which the manufacturer in their wisdom considered unnecessary.[/b]

Why is it that just about every vehicle now made has headlight relays. If the manufacturers were still out to make a dollar the cheapest way they can, they would still be routing the power for the lights through the headlight switch.

To get the brightest lights they can, the manufactures have gone to extreme lengths, in modern vehicles to get the voltage at the headlights as high as practicable, via relays and better wire size and I don’t think anybody with a new vehicle is going to get any benefit from fitting any form of headlight wiring upgrade because, contrary to your suggestion, manufacturers do now look for the best achievable results.



<!--QuoteBegin-JDNSW
One point should be noted that although getting the highest practical voltage to the lights will give the brightest light (and even very small increases in voltage make a marked increase in efficiency), operating tungsten filament bulbs at a higher voltage does decrease their life. As against that, note that my 1974 Citroen (which does have relays) still has all its original bulbs, so given good quality bulbs, the life is so long that even operated at a slightly higher voltage, bulb life should not be a problem.[/quote]

I don’t know how on earth you can compere a globe from a 1974 vehicle to a modern globe.

All electrical gear going into vehicles today are marked as 12 volt or 24 volt.

I know of no so called 12 volt vehicle that runs at less than 13.5 volts, with the majority running at between 14 and 14.3 volts and the new D3s and RRSs being capable of supplying operating voltages of up to 15.7.

There for it should stand to reason that a 12 volt globe is actually designed to run at 14 volts and before you try to contradict this, go check the manufacturers specs for their 12 volt range of globes, you will see they have an optimum recommended operating voltage of 14 volts.

Now back to my argument, if there was a gain to be made by running ANYTHING of the alternator, the manufacturers would be, but they are not. Good enough for them, good enough for me.

Cheers

[JDNSW]

I am perfectly aware of the actual operating voltage of so-called 12v systems. I can compare the bulbs of 1974 for the simple reason that this whole discussion is about upgrading the wiring on Landrover vehicles that do not have relays in the lighting circuit. In fact, the topic heading is for the 2a, which ceased manufacture in 1973.

There have in fact been only minor improvements in tungsten filament bulbs since the introduction of quartz halogen bulbs almost forty years ago. Certainly high intensity discharge lights are a different discussion altogether, but these are used by relatively few cars, and none of the ones under discussion.

As you correctly state, today most manufacturers pay more attention to the quality of the lights than was the case in the quite recent past, and as you state, there are probably no manufacturers not using relays, although this may have more to do with the declining cost of relays than anything else in some cases.

[drivesafe]

John, the point I was trying to make is that not only have the globes improved but so have the vehicles and it’s a bit hard to try and compere things that are some many years apart.

But no matter what era you look at, manufactures do not use the alternator as the main supply and with the improvements occurring and the different makers all willing to exploit anything that may make their vehicle better than someone else’s, I’m sure if there was an advantage to using the alternator, they would.

If you wish to do it the way you have, by all means continue, but I will continue to advise my customers not to use the alternator as the main supply point over the battery.

Cheers.

[crump]

mmmmm, yes I agree with both of you 8O , Drivesafe,let me know when the kits are ready, I'll take the easy way out as usual. https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

[drivesafe]

OK folks, I am just waiting for one more part and the kits will be ready ( HOPEFULLY be the end of the week ).

I’ve edited the first page and posted some info on using crimp terminals for those not use to how these are fitted.

Is there anything else that anybody would like posted or covered that they think could help fit a headlight kit to their vehicle.

Cheers

[landrovermick]

Only problem I can see with this is my 2a and most of the others I have seen over the years, including two out of three my mobile parts supplies do not have H4 connectors on the existing headlights. My impression is that although the H4 connector is listed from suffix B on these were not fitted in Australia until the headlights moved into the mudguards in about 69. A lot of these may have been converted however - I have been thinking about converting mine, and probably put a relay in at the same time.

(I have no problems identifying wires etc, but others may have problems)

John

JD i think you may have confused Drivesafes "project 2A" with series 2A..... My understanding is that "Project 2A" is an upgrade to Project 2 - headlight wiring upgrade - its not ment to relate to what vehicle the setup is applicable for ---- i have to read it twice to figure it out!

either way - thanks Drivesafe for this excellent project

Mick

[drivesafe]

Hi Mick, if this is the case then maybe I should call it “ Project 2 Second addition “

Cheers.

[DougLD]

Hi drivesafe
looking forward to when the kit is finished looks good and should make the Rangies lights a lot better.
Regards
Doug

[drivesafe]

Hi Doug, the Headlight Wiring Upgrade Kit is already available.

I have been flat out with all forms of orders which has resulted in me having to take much longer to get the next kit ready but hopefully, the Combo Headlight and Driving Light Wiring Upgrade Kit will be ready tomorrow.

See the link bellow for details.

Cheers

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/showthread.php't=27808

[RoverOne]

G'Day Drivesafe,
I have been following with interest the debate on wiring lights/driving lights and have no idea what either of you are talking about, but....

Years ago when I had my 2 door Rangie I put the car into an old time auto electrician, Doring Bros in Rockdale, for a new alternator. Just as a bit of trivia Bill Doring's father built the first battery powered car in the world which is still in Sydneys Museum of Applied Sciences in Ultimo.

When I went down to pick it up he had thrown the old 38amp Lucas away in favour of a 55amp Bosch of a F100. And he told me he had rewired my driving lights from the power from the + terminal on the battery to the + terminal on the alternator, simply explaining that it was better constant power, no cable length issue on a Rangie.

Ever since I've always wired driving lights this way for myself and the many mates over many years, not to any detriment my Defender lights still beaming after 9 years.

You state that if it was better manufacturers would do it this way, but every one knows they take the easy way out. Its a fact that port & polishing & blue printing a head makes immense improvent on any engine especially a diesel, but manufacturers don't do it because of cost adding to the price of a car.

I'm just pointing out that there are always better ways to do things, if you look outside the square, nothing is black & white.

[drivesafe]

I think you may mean oldest electric car in Australia ( ? ) or Mr Doring’s father would have to have been a very old man because mass produced electric cars, NOTE NOT the first electric car, were available in the USA as far back as 1904.

As far as manufactures taking the easiest way out, in many cases, in some vehicles, connecting to the alternator rather than the battery would be the easiest way out but NONE of the manufacturers do it.

Plus it’s a bit of a stretch, trying to compere mass production cost of standard engine manufacturing to the huge cost of blue printing every engine that came off a given assembly line. Very few people could afford the vehicles.

Cheers.

[RoverOne]

I think you may mean oldest electric car in Australia ( ? ) or Mr Doring’s father would have to have been a very old man because mass produced electric cars, NOTE NOT the first electric car, were available in the USA as far back as 1904.

As far as manufactures taking the easiest way out, in many cases, in some vehicles, connecting to the alternator rather than the battery would be the easiest way out but NONE of the manufacturers do it.

Plus it’s a bit of a stretch, trying to compere mass production cost of standard engine manufacturing to the huge cost of blue printing every engine that came off a given assembly line. Very few people could afford the vehicles.

Cheers.

I may have had it wrong it may have been Australia, but Bills in his seventies (70's) now born the in thirties, so his father at least could have been right there at the start, the original business was his fathers before cars came along ( I do know the family quite well), but I will check it though for my own interest.

Interesting inventive family, Bill's brother moved to QLD, & was interested in firearms got into gunsmithing & invented a replacement for the Owen & F1, it matched/exceeded all the Owen attributes in all tests, but were rejected out of hand because he was a nobody in firearm circles. In fact there was a bit on him & the gun on Mike Willisee back then. He later made headlines being arrested for a number of automatic weapons in his care...most he made himself, he also owned a large bow hunting club on the gold coast somewhere.

Quote
Plus it’s a bit of a stretch, trying to compere mass production cost of standard engine manufacturing to the huge cost of blue printing every engine that came off a given assembly line. Very few people could afford the vehicles.

No just blue printing the head, I've had it done its not that dear, but add the cost of polishing, and then it becomes prohibitative to do adding up the price of the car, but they would definately run better with more power & less fuel used.

Its just interesting though, your so keen that its not the right way to do it, & here are some quite famous old auto sparkies doing it for years, can't be totaly wrong. I know them, I don't know you & your background to denounce this method so harshly.

[drivesafe]

Hi RoverOne, I’d be interested to hear the full story behind their electric car but from memory, the pomes claim to have made the first electric car back in 1896 but as I posted, the yanks were mass producing them in 1904 and I think one of the motoring museums here, has one.

As far as picking up at the alternator goes, again as many vehicles manufacturers would save construction and material cost as it would be simpler to pick up at the alternator than the battery because of the physical layout of the vehicle, EG Land Rover Defender, but non do.

One more point, what do you mean by “ better constant power “.

The current coming out of the back of the alternator jumps all over the place, as different devices through at the vehicle, are turned on or off and the battery actually acts to smooth out these current fluctuations.

Worst still, the voltage at the back of any alternator still has AC spikes in it and a combination of the cable running between it and the battery and the battery itself, act the filter the power before it gets to the rest of the vehicle.

Try disconnecting your battery while the motor is running and see how long you can go before you do some damage to either the alternator and/or some of your vehicle’s electronics, because even a stuffed battery works to filter the power coming from the alternator, so I don’t understand what you mean by “ better constant power “.

Cheers

[jasper110]

i.ve read your post with interest and intend to upgrade my headlights, however living in the u.k.,purchasing your kit may prove a little expensive and similar manufactured kits available here cost £70 upwards!!
naturally, the wiring itself won't pose any difficulty. the relay may though. is it a relay that is commonly available? and if so, could you post more details about it. any other sugestions would also be useful.

many thanks.

[drivesafe]

Hi jasper110, unfortunately, I can’t give you any assistance on where to get the relay, it’s branded NEW ERA and I would recommend you try an auto electrical wholesaler.

It took took me a while to track them down over here. Normally I would go to the manufacture’s web site and make a request for the Australian distributor for a given product, but no matter how much I searched, I just could not find a manufactures web site for these relays.

I finally managed to track down an auto electrical wholesaler who could supply them, but only in large quantities.

Try your luck over there.

Failing that, a kit landed in the UK would probably set you back around £50 ( at a guess)

Cheers.

[jasper110]

thanks for the prompt reply, would taking the line picture of the relay as shown above help if i showed it to an auto-electrician?

[JDNSW]

(snip)

One more point, what do you mean by “ better constant power “.

The current coming out of the back of the alternator jumps all over the place, as different devices through at the vehicle, are turned on or off and the battery actually acts to smooth out these current fluctuations.

Worst still, the voltage at the back of any alternator still has AC spikes in it and a combination of the cable running between it and the battery and the battery itself, act the filter the power before it gets to the rest of the vehicle.

Try disconnecting your battery while the motor is running and see how long you can go before you do some damage to either the alternator and/or some of your vehicle’s electronics, because even a stuffed battery works to filter the power coming from the alternator, so I don’t understand what you mean by “ better constant power “.

Cheers

Without wishing to prolong this argument, I would point out that it is the battery itself that does the "filtering" of uneven voltage and AC ripple from the alternator - in any practical wiring system the reactance of the alternator to battery lead is virtually zero at the frequencies involved, and the resistance is deliberately low.

You are absolutely right about the effects of disconnecting the battery - but this does not imply that there are more spikes at the alternator than the battery end of the wire between them - there are, but the difference is very small, and is kept that way by the very low resistance and negligible reactance of the wire. By the same reasoning, of course, the power at the alternator is neither better nor more constant - assuming that by "power" he means voltage, the voltage at the alternator will vary by exactly the same percentage as the voltage at the battery, but will be higher while ever the alternator is charging (which is the normal situation when driving), by an amount equal to the alternator output multiplied by the resistance of the wire. This will be a small figure, perhaps a tenth of a volt, but increasing the voltage to the lights by this amount gives a disproportionate increase in light output. A side effect is that with the lights on, the battery is more fully charged than it would be if they ran off the battery as the current (and hence voltage drop) in the alternator - battery wire is less by the light drain. Always assuming the alternator puts out more current than the lights take - and it had better, or that battery is going to go flat!

There is no load other than driving or headlights where the small increase in voltage is significant, except perhaps for a high power radio transmitter - and few cars have these - so no advantage in taking other power circuits from the alternator.
John

[drivesafe]

would taking the line picture of the relay as shown above help if i showed it to an auto-electrician?

Hi again jasper110, although the diagram is copy right protected, I have no problem with someone printing it out so as to assist them with their own installation and, in your case, that includes taking it along to an auto electrician to help do an upgrade.

Cheers.

[Bigbjorn]

I think you may mean oldest electric car in Australia ( ? ) or Mr Doring’s father would have to have been a very old man because mass produced electric cars, NOTE NOT the first electric car, were available in the USA as far back as 1904.

As far as manufactures taking the easiest way out, in many cases, in some vehicles, connecting to the alternator rather than the battery would be the easiest way out but NONE of the manufacturers do it.

Plus it’s a bit of a stretch, trying to compere mass production cost of standard engine manufacturing to the huge cost of blue printing every engine that came off a given assembly line. Very few people could afford the vehicles.

Cheers.

A good while ago I worked at General Motors. A change to a vehicle costing less than five cents could be made by any of the divisions involved, Supply, Engineering, Service, Manufacturing, etc. A change of five cents or greater involved a full committee meeting of all involved. They are there to make profits for the shareholders, and do so by making and selling vehicles. I believe the reason most new vehicles have relay switched headlights is the increase in wattage of headlight bulbs in the last 10 or so years from 60/55 to commonly 100/90 and even up to 150/90. Why the hell they have all gone away from round sealed or semi-sealed light units is a mystery. you can buy them anywhere at minimal cost, usually less than $20. A headlight assembly for my late model Falcon ute was quoted by a Ford dealer at $370. A non-genuine (Taiwan) replacement from an aftermarket supplier was $125. Ford, by the way, recommend against installing higher wattage bulbs than the standard fitment, in their headlights. I did so and found the high beam wiring at the last connector got hot enough to melt the insulation. So, out with the heavy gauge wire and the crimping pliers. This should have been done in manufacture, but probably exceeds the five cent barrier.

[jasper110]

Thanks Drivesafe.

last night i completed changing the wiring on my 110. i couln't source a relay like the one in this particular project so used 2 relays in a similar way to the original project on this site.

the difference is incredible to say the least! and i'm looking forward to the darker nights to i can use it to the full!!

i have in the past asked opinion on this upgrade here in the u.k. but the reply has always been why bother, just put in brighter bulbs (globes). well, they don't know what they are talking about!!

thanks very much for sharing this info with us and i look forward to any other improvement projects.

[drivesafe]

Hi jasper110, As soon as I get my finger out, I hope to post a couple of projects.

Cheers and good to hear that it worked for you.