I’ve got a green oval stamped on my ass but I absolutely want one of these ...

[BrianElloy]

SUV – Rivian (https://products.rivian.com/suv/)

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190627/ef35967d3365a7abc9803229ac7fb35d.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190627/a093dd36d324fe88a83bd175ffd5de5c.jpg

[cripesamighty]

I would love one of these, or one of the new Bollingers (if either makes it to production). The Rivian prototype recently had a pull out camping setup fitted in the triangle shaped cargo bin (between the rear cargo area and cab) for a camping show. You can probably find it online.

Edit: Ok, found it.

https://www.carsales.com.au/editorial/details/rivian-r1t-pick-up-goes-camping-118565/

YouTube (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=i9BIg4Dph1E)

[goingbush]

This is working just fine for me until my Bollinger arrives

http://goingbush.com/AULRO/88voltb.jpg

[Dagilmo]

SUV – Rivian (https://products.rivian.com/suv/)

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190627/ef35967d3365a7abc9803229ac7fb35d.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190627/a093dd36d324fe88a83bd175ffd5de5c.jpg

Yes yes yes! I love my ICE as much as the next guy. Love the roar of a V8 (only area of jealousy I have regarding my brothers LC200) and will be modding the exhaust on the D4 as soon as I can but there is so much to like about these. I've said to a few people I think my D4 will be the last fossil fuel car I own. I think it's a 10 year car and by that time one of these will be the go.

[Bohica]

SUV – Rivian (https://products.rivian.com/suv/)

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190627/ef35967d3365a7abc9803229ac7fb35d.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190627/a093dd36d324fe88a83bd175ffd5de5c.jpg

I wouldn't mind one, expect for the goddam ugly front, the limited range and the lack of charging infrastrcture.

[arejaybee]

Electric 4wds are going to be ridiculously capable, they will **** all over traditional 4wds; much like other forms of motorsport as well.

Imagine slowly and quietly creeping up steep uneven slopes with perfectly controlled torque delivered to each wheel fully independently, it's going to be strange!

[Pippin]

Electric 4wds are going to be ridiculously capable, they will **** all over traditional 4wds; much like other forms of motorsport as well.

Imagine slowly and quietly creeping up steep uneven slopes with perfectly controlled torque delivered to each wheel fully independently, it's going to be strange!Also imagine being in the middle of nowhere with flat batteries.

[cripesamighty]

If I bought one of these, part of my payload would be taken up with some roll out solar panels....

[goingbush]

Also imagine being in the middle of nowhere with flat batteries.

What ?? Like Internal combustion engines never run out of fuel ??
Imagine being stuck in the middle of nowhere with an empty fuel tank.

[Pippin]

What ?? Like Internal combustion engines never run out of fuel ??
Imagine being stuck in the middle of nowhere with an empty fuel tank. I should have put a smiley emoji on my comment. Of course electric vehicles are the future but as things are now a jerry can is an easier option.[smilebigeye]

[VladTepes]

If I bought one of these, part of my payload would be taken up with some roll out solar panels....

If you do the maths - those solar panels will help you not at all. Consider those ultralight, tiny solar racers they use across the desert each year in that uni race here in AUS.
They can run on solar using the entire upper surface covered in expensive high efficiency solar panels. Bugger all wEIGHT to speak of - ONE PERSON, no luggage, no lights, no air con, no... etc


So that's a no go with current tech.



As for the RIVIAN - hell yeah !


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMfxJEfb4lw

[goingbush]

Mark French ( the bloke that founded Marks 4wd Adaptors) got the Guiness record for the first bloke to drive across the Simpson in an EV 100% solar powered, took just under 4 days. EV Converted old school Suzuki 4x4 .

[BrianElloy]

I wouldn't mind one, expect for the goddam ugly front, the limited range and the lack of charging infrastrcture.

Ugly front - agreed

Limited range - current max 600 kms which is pretty good. By Dec2021 for RHD markets battery tech would have improved.

Lack of charging infra - they’re currently compatible with DC-DC chargers but - fair point.

[Arapiles]

Outdoor Retailer is a huge US trade show - which Rivian has attended.


Mens Journal

Outdoor Retailer: The Coolest Gear We Saw at This Summer's Show (https://www.mensjournal.com/gear/outdoor-retailer-gear-summer-2019/rivian-r1t/)


Video from Gear Patrol - scroll through to 6:47.

All of Our Coverage from Outdoor Retailer Summer Show 2019 • Gear Patrol (https://gearpatrol.com/2019/06/14/outdoor-retailer-summer-show-2019/)

Seems to have a lot of the video that's on Rivian's website.

The reviewer thinks that it would suit someone who has, like, a Defender in the garage ...

[Arapiles]

Outdoor Retailer is a huge US trade show - which Rivian has attended.


Mens Journal

Outdoor Retailer: The Coolest Gear We Saw at This Summer's Show (https://www.mensjournal.com/gear/outdoor-retailer-gear-summer-2019/rivian-r1t/)


Video from Gear Patrol - scroll through to 6:47.

All of Our Coverage from Outdoor Retailer Summer Show 2019 • Gear Patrol (https://gearpatrol.com/2019/06/14/outdoor-retailer-summer-show-2019/)

Seems to have a lot of the video that's on Rivian's website.

The reviewer thinks that it would suit someone who has, like, a Defender in the garage ...


And this review:

Can Rivian Actually Beat Ford and GMC to the EV Punch? • Gear Patrol (https://gearpatrol.com/2019/03/02/can-rivian-actually-beat-ford-and-gmc-to-the-ev-punch/)

[arejaybee]

Yes there are issues with energy storage right now, but they will absolutely get solved.
There is huge research in this area right now as it's got huge potential.

Imagine getting stuck in the desert with an empty fuel tank when there are no other vehicles around that run on petrol/diesel :)
Imagine living on a several thousand acre station and not having to pay fuel trucks to come to your property as you're running your own solar array.

[arejaybee]

If you do the maths - those solar panels will help you not at all. Consider those ultralight, tiny solar racers they use across the desert each year in that uni race here in AUS.
They can run on solar using the entire upper surface covered in expensive high efficiency solar panels. Bugger all wEIGHT to speak of - ONE PERSON, no luggage, no lights, no air con, no... etc

So that's a no go with current tech.


Decided to look in to the specifics of The World Solar Challenge race, Overview | World Solar Challenge 2019 (https://www.worldsolarchallenge.org/about_wsc/overview).
Important points is:


It's all about energy management! Based on the original notion that a 1000W car would complete the journey in 50 hours, solar cars are allowed a nominal 5kW hours of stored energy, which is 10% of that theoretical figure.


To put things in to perspective, the Tesla Model S has 100 kWh of capacity.
Also important to remember that these vehicles are all built by university students, not full scale manufactures,

Not saying that solar would work, but just got to compare apples with apples :)

[coolum]

Depends where the power in the recharge comes from .. solar, wind or coal - we love our coal here in Oz.. and of course if we change to renewables - we are still sending Adani level coal exports to pollute from elsewhere, but it all goes into the same sky.

What about Battery degradation - is it possible every time you go out you have slightly less range?

Remember to factor in battery replacement in x years and add that to travel costs.

Plenty of other issues - like the complex in Melb CBD who asked for EOI for a power point for EV's and got 24 replies but infrastructure would only allow for 8 - up the street things got worse..

Perhaps towing a boat or van would possibly only allow you to go from power point to power point and no straying off the route unless using nike's.

Just thoughts really.

I love my V8 D3 for now.

[NT5224]

:)
Imagine living on a several thousand acre station and not having to pay fuel trucks to come to your property as you're running your own solar array.

You blokes keep imagining.

My place runs completely off-grid from solar and wind. But the Land Rover stays diesel, thanks.

Imagine being out in the middle of nowhere and not having a clue how the technology you rely upon works, how to fix it and having assembled the parts, tools and know-how to maintain.

In the outback, behind every fancy solar installation is a Kubota generator ready to kick in.

Alan

[DiscoJeffster]

You blokes keep imagining.

My place runs completely off-grid from solar and wind. But the Land Rover stays diesel, thanks.

Imagine being out in the middle of nowhere and not having a clue how the technology you rely upon works, how to fix it and having assembled the parts, tools and know-how to maintain.

In the outback, behind every fancy solar installation is a Kubota generator ready to kick in.

Alan

And for many people who own a Disco and it drops on all fours and incessantly bongs at them - do they have a clue how the technology works? At some point you just have to trust in it and cross your fingers.

[Dagilmo]

And for many people who own a Disco and it drops on all fours and incessantly bongs at them - do they have a clue how the technology works? At some point you just have to trust in it and cross your fingers.

Agreed. And, any discussion regarding future reliability is is a no win for ICE vehicles. The electric will be soooo much better. No: Fuel systems (low or high pressure), air intake systems, cooling system (maybe something here, granted), all the rotating stuff in the engine, diffs, transfer case, ETC ETC.....They will be more reliable and so much less to maintain.

[Lukeis]

The hardest issues to fix are always the electrical gremlins, these cars will be 100% electrics.. going to need to go back to uni when the oroblems start.

And the earlier point about about replacement batteries is massive, it will destroy the resale value when the car is 10 years old and worth 20k but needs 20k worth of new batteries, all that comes back up the line

that being said I’ll lay my $1000 down when they open up for deposits in Aus. Good bye emissions

[shanegtr]

Good bye emissions
Only when we have a low emission power source - which we currently dont

[Tombie]

I should have put a smiley emoji on my comment. Of course electric vehicles are the future but as things are now a jerry can is an easier option.[smilebigeye]

“Jerry” batteries aren’t that far fetched [emoji6]

[Pippin]

“Jerry” batteries aren’t that far fetched [emoji6]
Tombie I would rather carry a Wehrmacht-Einheitskanister. [tonguewink]

[Pinelli]

The hardest issues to fix are always the electrical gremlins, these cars will be 100% electrics.. going to need to go back to uni when the oroblems start.


The electrics in electric cars is quite a lot simpler than the electrics in a modern petrol or diesel car. Yes, you'll still have wheel sensors to check to wheel speed and spin, there will be the odd temperature sensor, but no sensors to measure air temperature, air flow, air pressure, fuel temperature, fuel pressure, spark, knock sensors, no O2 sensors, and the list goes on.

[arejaybee]

You blokes keep imagining.
My place runs completely off-grid from solar and wind. But the Land Rover stays diesel, thanks.
Imagine being out in the middle of nowhere and not having a clue how the technology you rely upon works, how to fix it and having assembled the parts, tools and know-how to maintain.
In the outback, behind every fancy solar installation is a Kubota generator ready to kick in.

Alan

Sure, and that is totally fair.

But I don't have any doubt that there will be a not too distant future where electric utility vehicles are the norm.
As others have said they are actually generally simpler than current internal combustion vehicles, with far less moving parts to break.

Yes there is more electronics, and it means the handy-man out in the field will have different skills.
Instead of repairing broken CV joints or they'll be able to diagnose electric faults or fix faulty motors.

Of course that is all yet to be proven!

My parents also live on a fully off-grid property with a very healthy power system and solar array, they're on the lookout for an EV they can invest in but it needs to be able to cop 45 mins of dirt road round trip to be practical. Once they find it though they'll be filling it up with sun that is currently just going to waste, that's pretty awesome.

[NT5224]

And for many people who own a Disco and it drops on all fours and incessantly bongs at them - do they have a clue how the technology works? At some point you just have to trust in it and cross your fingers.


You got me! I’ll confess that im pretty clueless on the electronics in my Puma. But I don’t like it -and if I’d had the option for a brand new 300tdi over a new TDCi, I would have taken it. But no choice when I bought my current vehicle in 2012.

But if offered an electric vehicle over a diesel, living outback, I’d be nuts to consider it. Id have one in town though.

Alan

[goingbush]

The hardest issues to fix are always the electrical gremlins, these cars will be 100% electrics.. going to need to go back to uni when the oroblems start.

And the earlier point about about replacement batteries is massive, it will destroy the resale value when the car is 10 years old and worth 20k but needs 20k worth of new batteries, all that comes back up the line

that being said I’ll lay my $1000 down when they open up for deposits in Aus. Good bye emissions

As mentioned EV electrics are very reliable, they have to conform to IP67 and 20mA isolation standards and as such are pretty much milspec, There is nothing complex about them , The troublesome electrics will be the 12V side just like on an ICE vehicle , because they don't have to comply to the same standard.

Since iv'e converted my Landy to 100% EV its been 100% trouble free & I have had absolutely no reason to open the bonnet at all, except to show it off & to tinker of my own volition. it is now without doubt THE most reliable vehicle i have ever owned, just charge & drive.

[goingbush]

Sure, and that is totally fair.

But I don't have any doubt that there will be a not too distant future where electric utility vehicles are the norm.
As others have said they are actually generally simpler than current internal combustion vehicles, with far less moving parts to break.

Yes there is more electronics, and it means the handy-man out in the field will have different skills.
Instead of repairing broken CV joints or they'll be able to diagnose electric faults or fix faulty motors.

Of course that is all yet to be proven!

My parents also live on a fully off-grid property with a very healthy power system and solar array, they're on the lookout for an EV they can invest in but it needs to be able to cop 45 mins of dirt road round trip to be practical. Once they find it though they'll be filling it up with sun that is currently just going to waste, that's pretty awesome.

Is that 45min each way (90 m in round trip) or 45min round trip . My EV conversion can handle that , maybe converting an existing vehicle will be the way to go until a shop bought model is available at a reasonable price. A bloke living on an off grid property converted a Hilux about 15 years ago and recently upgraded the motor & batteries after 100,000km , not because they were stuffed , but better motors & cheaper batteries are around now.

[scarry]

“Jerry” batteries aren’t that far fetched [emoji6]

Exactly,SWMBO has one for her phone,they are readily available now,but rather smallish,wouldn't suit anything larger than a mobile.

They do work well though

[goingbush]

EV Jerry Can , work in progress .

5 x 3.2V 200AH cells , into a 3500W inverter into charger will give me 20km in 'eco' mode.

not bothering with this though , If I'm stupid enough to get a flat battery I'll walk.

https://scontent-syd2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/45646461_1944134825668298_2498720910916190208_o.jp g?_nc_cat=107&_nc_oc=AQnUXPiyVvQQ7tRNCRlRpSjKHjNQrGuEDSibzRDEevg gj1IBRFjlAsfyiatDiQj7f5Y&_nc_ht=scontent-syd2-1.xx&oh=3a94e45a705d5d00936772caabd94fe2&oe=5DC195FA

[discorevy]

not bothering with this though , If I'm stupid enough to get a flat battery I'll walk.


Or for a laugh , call the RAC and tell them you have a flat battery, film their face ( specifically eyebrows ) when they try to hook up the jumper leads[biggrin]

[DiscoMick]

Just compare the complexity of a petrol chainsaw with the simplicity of an electric chainsaw - there's no comparison.
On an EV services will just be fluids, greasing and brakes.

[goingbush]

Just compare the complexity of a petrol chainsaw with the simplicity of an electric chainsaw - there's no comparison.
On an EV services will just be fluids, greasing and brakes.

Even the brakes hardly need servicing, because Regen braking does all the work, the actual brake pads / shoes are just to bring it to a halt under 5kmh or hold the cars stopped. So really just wiper rubbers .
( or in the case of my Landy regular topping up the gearbox to ensure it keeps leaking)

[PhilipA]

Since iv'e converted my Landy to 100% EV its been 100% trouble free & I have had absolutely no reason to open the bonnet at all, except to show it off & to tinker of my own volition. it is now without doubt THE most reliable vehicle i have ever owned, just charge & drive.

You seem to not mention the faulty batteries that you had to replace.

It seems to me that the most problematic part of EVs is the batteries.

Scrape a culvert or kerb in an ICE vehicle and you may dent the exhaust.

Do the same in an EV and there is a real danger that it will catch fire.

Physical damage to a battery pack is often fatal, and Tesla IP68 battery packs do NOT survive a dunking in floodwaters as the bloke in USA who rebuilds them found.
Look at Audi's recall of the few EVs they have built. They leaked water. Here is the largest auto company in the World and they cannot keep them dry.
Regards Philip A

[goingbush]

You seem to not mention the faulty batteries that you had to replace.

Obviously I have mentioned the faulty cells, otherwise you would not know about it. As it turns out the cells were not faulty, I did not balance them correctly. That was even before I got the vehicle blue plated , so technically before the conversion was completed.




It seems to me that the most problematic part of EVs is the batteries.
It seems to me that the most problematic part of ICE car is the engine.


Scrape a culvert or kerb in an ICE vehicle and you may dent the exhaust.

Do the same in an EV and there is a real danger that it will catch fire.

[bawl]


Physical damage to a battery pack is often fatal, and Tesla IP68 battery packs do NOT survive a dunking in floodwaters as the bloke in USA who rebuilds them found.
Look at Audi's recall of the few EVs they have built. They leaked water. Here is the largest auto company in the World and they cannot keep them dry.
Regards Philip A


Audi like most auto companies are openly anti EV and its in their interest to make EV's that are defective.

That water damaged IP68 Tesla battery pack, you do know what IP68 means don't you Phil ?
IP68 means it will Survive water immersion 1.5m deep for 30mins .

Heres one from your mate on Rich Rebuilds that you keep referring to was submerged in floodwater for 10 days , was still reading 360Volts , the modules were all unaffected. YouTube (https://youtu.be/eYgeaT46xCk)

What do you expect with saltwater though, Immersion in salt water will **** up any car no matter if its ICE or Battery.

[arejaybee]

Is that 45min each way (90 m in round trip) or 45min round trip . My EV conversion can handle that , maybe converting an existing vehicle will be the way to go until a shop bought model is available at a reasonable price. A bloke living on an off grid property converted a Hilux about 15 years ago and recently upgraded the motor & batteries after 100,000km , not because they were stuffed , but better motors & cheaper batteries are around now.

It's 45mins each way, so 90m round trip + whatever they spend dilly-dallying around town.

I have actually shared your project wth my father who is definitely interested in conversions. He has an old Austin A30 which would be an interesting case for converting, though not particularly practical in the country.

[Gregz]

I think this is the future, but recognise there are some limitations if you want to do it with solar. The big battery in the Rivian is 180kwh, this is not small.
I think you can get a 30kw solar array for about $20k. So you with one of these it will take about 6 hours to charge from flat during the day. Or scale up the kw and $ to reduce the charging time.
If you want to store the charge in batteries , it will take something like 13 or 14 Tesla powerwall 2 batteries.... probably better to have 2 Rivians, one on charge while you use the other.

[goingbush]

I think this is the future, but recognise there are some limitations if you want to do it with solar. The big battery in the Rivian is 180kwh, this is not small.
I think you can get a 30kw solar array for about $20k. So you with one of these it will take about 6 hours to charge from flat during the day. Or scale up the kw and $ to reduce the charging time.
If you want to store the charge in batteries , it will take something like 13 or 14 Tesla powerwall 2 batteries.... probably better to have 2 Rivians, one on charge while you use the other.

Very true , but 180kwh is a huge battery , you not going to need to charge that from flat every day, You'll probably use about 40kwh per 100km , so thats about 450km . best to just plug it in when you get home and keep it about 80% charged.

I average 30kwh per 100km in my Landy, I only have a 28kwh battery , I only need to charge about once every 3 days , no burden on my 5kw solar system at all.

[Tombie]

I’d be stuffed! I burn 400km on a quiet day.

[PhilipA]

There was an article in The Australian yesterday that China is considering banning Lion batteries in cars considering the number of fires. The plan is to replace them with liFePO4.
AFAIK LifePo4 are much heavier and less space efficient that Lion . To get the same range you would probably have to have no cabin or much reduced range.
It will never happen.
Regards Philip A

[Pinelli]

Battery technology is just going to get better and better.

[goingbush]

There was an article in The Australian yesterday that China is considering banning Lion batteries in cars considering the number of fires. The plan is to replace them with liFePO4.
AFAIK LifePo4 are much heavier and less space efficient that Lion . To get the same range you would probably have to have no cabin or much reduced range.
It will never happen.
Regards Philip A

I have Chinese LiFePo4 prismatic cells in my SWB Landy, 28kwh worth weighs 256kg , not as good energy density as Tesla cells but a lot more stable. I could just about double that without eating into any cargo or passenger space , but 28kwh gives me more than enough range for my daily driving. At the moment 24 cells take the space of where both fuel tanks were and there are 21 cells under the bonnet, 45 in all , each cell is 3.2 v x 200Ah giving 144v x200Ah = 28.8kwh.

[Tombie]

I have Chinese LiFePo4 prismatic cells in my SWB Landy, 28kwh worth weighs 256kg , not as good energy density as Tesla cells but a lot more stable. I could just about double that without eating into any cargo or passenger space , but 28kwh gives me more than enough range for my daily driving. At the moment 24 cells take the space of where both fuel tanks were and there are 21 cells under the bonnet, 45 in all , each cell is 3.2 v x 200Ah giving 144v x200Ah = 28.8kwh.

Out of curiosity.

You lost 1 engine, fuel tanks etc.
Added 1 electric motor, control system and batteries.

What was the final variance in the weight equation?

[PhilipA]

Tesla model s is 100kw so about I tonne if lifepo4 using your weight as guide
Tesla
85kw pack weighs 540 kg.so 100kw about 630kg.

1 don’t know the volume difference but it will be a lot.
regards Philip A

[goingbush]

Out of curiosity.

You lost 1 engine, fuel tanks etc.
Added 1 electric motor, control system and batteries.

What was the final variance in the weight equation?

nett 150kg lighter. compared to ICE with one full fuel tank.