New defender haters gonna hate..........

[Jay1809]

YouTube (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rgSxmyOnJjg&feature=youtu.be)

I'm sorry, but all those who are hating on the defender, there's still plenty of old ones you can purchase! But then if you all did, there wouldn't be a new defender would there!

Time to jog on! Progress moves things forward or we would all still be driving a Willy' s jeep!

[SPROVER]

Is that the new Skoda ? [emoji1787]

[puma]

New Land Rover Defender revealed in Frankfurt | CAR Magazine (https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-news/first-official-pictures/land-rover/defender/)

I’m not sure I need 83 computers, I usually drive my defender to get away from technology.

It’s a good thing Land Rover made it an over complicated luxury car, that’s too expensive to put muddy dogs in, because they don’t have many options in that department.

[Arapiles]

It’s a good thing Land Rover made it an over complicated luxury car, that’s too expensive to put muddy dogs in, because they don’t have many options in that department.

There's a heap of dog carrier options, including complete rear liners ...

[Fubar]

Yep...easy to hate it as a Defender, but very easy to like it as a Discovery. Total **** take to peddle that as a Defender.

The missus asked if it was new 4wd mini.

[SPROVER]

Hahaha... Yes the mini country I think it's called [emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787]

[SPROVER]

Honestly I think they should have retired the Defender badge and called the new one the "Discovery Off-road Edition" . [emoji16]

[puma]

New Land Rover Defender revealed in Frankfurt | CAR Magazine (https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-news/first-official-pictures/land-rover/defender/)

I’m not sure I need 83 computers, I usually drive my defender to get away from technology.

It’s a good thing Land Rover made it an over complicated luxury car, that’s too expensive to put muddy dogs in, because they don’t have many options in that department.


There's a heap of dog carrier options, including complete rear liners ...

Brill, just need to drill some holes in the doors then to let the water in when it rains, I’ll be right at home.

[Arapiles]

Brill, just need to drill some holes in the doors then to let the water in when it rains, I’ll be right at home.

I doubt that there will be any need to drill holes.

[Fausto79]

YouTube (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Yt-3t_oXaUg)

That’s what defenders are meant to do. If you want that sort of luxury and tech you buy a RR or Disco. Now LR has three of the same vehicles in three shapes. Should’ve stuck to the simple concept and left the luxury for their other vehicles. Will be a ****** car (< that word started with a w). Whilst the people that need a real utility will buy 76 series cruiser or a proper defender.

[prelude]

Let's just hope The Projekt Grenadier Website | Building An Uncompromising 4x4 (https://projektgrenadier.com/) will be more of a spiritual successor to the defender than this pretender. Also, they do take a survey which I suggest people fill out since at this point we do have a (perhaps some at most) say in what is produced!

Cheers,

-P

[Scouter]

I’m going to be a little controversial here.
The original Defender, in whatever guise, had character. Now by character we usually mean all the little imperfections that go toward making each truck unique. For Land Rovers in particular, that came from poor build quality. We all joke about it, accept it, love it and sometimes hate it. The second part of it is that is that in order to be commercially successful Land Rover need to build cars in markets where people with money will buy them. The governments in those markets insist on things like passenger and pedestrian safety and envirocrap.
So what is Land Rover to do? In this case, not having seen the truck in person, I’d suggest they’ve done the only thing the could do- build a crashworthy, pedestrian-friendly, emissions compliant truck with excellent off-road ability and durability (the test regime was impressive) where as much of the gadgetry are optional extras. You can even mop out the floor! I suspect you will be able to tinker with the base model as much as any Land Cruiser or Pajero. No, it’s not a 79, but it also won’t be an underpowered rattletrap, vacuuming in dust like Hoover and requiring daily first aid to stay on the road, the market for which is shrinking by the day. By this time next year we’ll know if they’ve hit the mark.

[AndyG]

Does not rock my boat but,
I wonder how many arm chair critics have put their $$ down on a new Defender or other 4WD in the last ten years. Or plan to in the next five.
These are the people LR needs to address as potential customers and more particularly those in the USA & Europe , not Australia.

Pretty much what i expected which is why i bought what i bought when i did.

[shanegtr]

I wonder that if the Defender had regular updates in its past - say every 10yrs or so, and wound up at this same point with the new release - would the purists still be complaining about it?
I can understand why it may not appeal to original owners of defender - it really needed to be a true competitor for the 79 series Toyota to be 100% true to its past. But that is such a limited market Im sure it wouldn't have been feasible. The direction they have gone makes the most sense for selling vehicles, but its basically trying to hit the same market as the previous disco.
If I could afford a new one (which I cant) I'd be up for the 130 7 seater

[thepeter]

I can see both sides of the fence here. And in short, I've turned my opinion around.

I can see the side of old, purist live-axle 4x4 values which the brand was built on. And the modern manufacturing technology driven SUV sector. The former will sell to defence (if selected), some NGO's, the modification enthusiasts, the tourers and die-hard brand loyalists who have long embraced land rovers of old, and their problems. The latter will sell to the daily drivers turned weekend adventurers, who have no need or want for that second vehicle. And with shareholders to report to, that's the demographic that is going to have all the expendable income. While NGO's seem like they are a good use case for testing (and they are), they are not at all a good market to sell to from a business perspective. Because they all get concessions. Mining companies are no similar. Ask Toyota or Isuzu.

And being real - It is nearly 2020. Simplicity is not always a guarantee of reliability these days. Even 70 series cruisers, Jeeps & G-Wagen's have their own problems.
As enthusiasts of old tech, we are accustomed to seeing vehicles being released with a bucket load of electronic **** that we have no idea of how it works. And lets face it, we don't want to know how it works. Because it only makes us realise that what we've enjoyed for so many years is now solidly a thing of the past.

Sure, they could have made it in the same vain as the new Jimny. New tech mixed with a simple, live axle, coil sprung base. That would have been perfect. But the new defender could have been SO much worse. Or it could have never existed again. And to many, seeing the name end was a better option. I don't think so. Sure it has a load of the crap we don't like from newer models, like air suspension which makes it seem like a vehicle that is destined to only clog up cafe & posh private school car parks rather than crossing the Simpson. But critics are always going to be skeptical about every new release their beloved marque makes. This is no different because LR owners are such a stubborn bunch. (Wear it with pride)

And lastly, people underestimate the power of the aftermarket. This same worry was had by enthusiasts prior to the release of the FT86 by Toyota. Less than 5 years after, 2nd hand vehicle prices dropped drastically and the aftermarket manufacturers had created something to replace every piece of the vehicle that people didn't like. Expect the same thing to happen here.

In closing, yes - it could have and SHOULD have approached like the Jimny was. But I'm positive about what the next 10 years will bring for the vehicle.

[AndyG]

BTW the configurator is up & running on the LR Oz site, go play, lots of expensive options

[solmanic]

I could see this was where things were heading six years ago, so that's why I went to the G-Wagen. In the end it was Land Rover's customer service that ****ed me off so much I had to leave. Now it looks like the combination of soft-roader comfort "features" and stratospheric pricing of the new Defender will ensure the G-Professional keeps selling.

[Saitch]

BTW the configurator is up & running on the LR Oz site, go play, lots of expensive options

Done!

154111


If I had the money I'd certainly be interested!

[cruiser1]

The camp trailer / caravan in the video is the Australian designed and made Bruder EXP6. A big boost for an Australian made product!!! See www.bruderx.com (http://www.bruderx.com)

[DiscoMick]

A Car mag report said prices in the UK will start at 40,000 pounds for the 90 and 45,000 for the 110, while a commercial version will start from 35,000 pounds. Will be interesting to see how they price it in Oz.

[DiscoMick]

A Car mag report said prices in the UK will start at 40,000 pounds for the 90 and 45,000 for the 110, while a commercial version will start from 35,000 pounds. Will be interesting to see how they price it in Oz. CarAdvice is predicting from $50-60,000 but also talks of $70,000 upwards.
2020 Land Rover Defender revealed, priced from $70,000 | CarAdvice (https://www.caradvice.com.au/791133/2020-land-rover-defender-revealed/)

This story has some interesting information.
The electrics are rated to IP67, which means they can be submerged for an hour.
Also details of 170 factory accessories, including a bullbar specifically designed for Australia.
LR will also offer a factory wrap to protect the paintwork from scratches.
2020 Land Rover Defender: 50 things you need to know (https://www.whichcar.com.au/news/2020-land-rover-defender-50-facts-figures)

[Saitch]

A Car mag report said prices in the UK will start at 40,000 pounds for the 90 and 45,000 for the 110, while a commercial version will start from 35,000 pounds. Will be interesting to see how they price it in Oz. CarAdvice is predicting from $50-60,000 but also talks of $70,000 upwards.
2020 Land Rover Defender revealed, priced from $70,000 | CarAdvice (https://www.caradvice.com.au/791133/2020-land-rover-defender-revealed/)

This story has some interesting information.
The electrics are rated to IP67, which means they can be submerged for an hour.
Also details of 170 factory accessories, including a bullbar specifically designed for Australia.
LR will also offer a factory wrap to protect the paintwork from scratches.
2020 Land Rover Defender: 50 things you need to know (https://www.whichcar.com.au/news/2020-land-rover-defender-50-facts-figures)

Oooooh, Mike, a nice little retirement pressie there, mate![thumbsupbig]

[scarry]

A Car mag report said prices in the UK will start at 40,000 pounds for the 90 and 45,000 for the 110, while a commercial version will start from 35,000 pounds. Will be interesting to see how they price it in Oz. CarAdvice is predicting from $50-60,000 but also talks of $70,000 upwards.
2020 Land Rover Defender revealed, priced from $70,000 | CarAdvice (https://www.caradvice.com.au/791133/2020-land-rover-defender-revealed/)

This story has some interesting information.
The electrics are rated to IP67, which means they can be submerged for an hour.
Also details of 170 factory accessories, including a bullbar specifically designed for Australia.
LR will also offer a factory wrap to protect the paintwork from scratches.
2020 Land Rover Defender: 50 things you need to know (https://www.whichcar.com.au/news/2020-land-rover-defender-50-facts-figures)

So that puts the ute to bed,almost.
Also no V8,but never say never[biggrin]
June sale date in Aus,it was formerly announced as February.
Bull bar for Aus,that will be interesting

Prices,so around $80K on road for 110,5 seat.
Add a few extras,even some aftermarket,and it will get to $90K easy,probably more, like just under $100K,which is what i guessed.

Need a bigger diesel for Aus,it won't be a high seller without.
Cant see grey nomads that tow, jumping from a V8 diesel,with a huge fuel tank,to a 2L 4 cyl,and a smallish fuel tank in a hurry.
The 2L isn't very frugal either,by reports from D5 owners.

Overall,though i like it,can't wait to see one in the flesh,and with a bigger diesel[bigsmile1]

[Jojo]

I am waiting until the commercial version will be released, ideally as special edition in 'Wilks Bros'-livery as shown at the revealing event[biggrin]

[DazzaTD5]

I hate the haters [bighmmm]

[Saulman1010]

I am waiting until the commercial version will be released, ideally as special edition in 'Wilks Bros'-livery as shown at the revealing event[biggrin]I like it. It looks smart and modern.
The old was the old and the new the new. Move on.
I hope they do do a commercial / tradie / poverty pack edition which will prob keep the "hose it out brigade" happy.
But in the meantime, all the modern safety stuff saves lives.

[Fubar]

To all the move with the times crowd....I agree with the sentiment.

But to label this new offering a Defender is pure marketing BS and mildly delusional. However I can see how that would appeal to the people, who for whatever reason, won't own a Defender.

I like it, I think it's what the Disco should have been, because lets face it the current Disco was 'refined' to suit a more urban user.

For us it will be an appropriate replacement when the wife's Pajero hits 350k, but I'll be pulling the Defender lettering off and sticking some Discovery ones on........bet I wont be the only one to do that!

[Slunnie]

This is interesting!


Stopping power There is no mechanical link between the brake pedal and the brake discs. Instead the Defender gets a brake-by-wire system claimed to provide more “precise, linear brake pressures”. Engineers also say the electronic braking system helps with off-road traction due to the ability to better regulate braking to each individual wheel.

[rick130]

This is interesting!

I'd love to try it but saying it's more linear than a conventional system?
You can't get much more direct/linear than the force you directly apply to the MC affecting the pistons in the calipers....

I can see it being advantageous from a TC POV and from a high speed perspective you will be able to generate higher brake forces faster in an emergency.
Most people don't hit the brakes near hard enough initially in panic stops.

Or it could be good when doing laps of the 'Ring.....[emoji23]

[Arapiles]

A Car mag report said prices in the UK will start at 40,000 pounds for the 90 and 45,000 for the 110, while a commercial version will start from 35,000 pounds. Will be interesting to see how they price it in Oz. CarAdvice is predicting from $50-60,000 but also talks of $70,000 upwards.
2020 Land Rover Defender revealed, priced from $70,000 | CarAdvice (https://www.caradvice.com.au/791133/2020-land-rover-defender-revealed/)

This story has some interesting information.
The electrics are rated to IP67, which means they can be submerged for an hour.
Also details of 170 factory accessories, including a bullbar specifically designed for Australia.
LR will also offer a factory wrap to protect the paintwork from scratches.
2020 Land Rover Defender: 50 things you need to know (https://www.whichcar.com.au/news/2020-land-rover-defender-50-facts-figures)

I had a look at both the UK and Australian configurator - the base Australian model appears to have as standard a lot of stuff that's optional in the UK or which you have to buy the UK's SE or HSE to get. Maybe LRA have actually addressed the "why-is-keyless-entry-an-option" issue.

[RANDLOVER]

So that puts the ute to bed,almost …………….[bigsmile1]

I think having the 3 front seats is a pointer to a possible single cab ute, like the old Hilux's with the steering column gear shifter and bench seat. Also I think utes, especially double cabs would be a bigger seller than wagons.

[DazzaTD5]

To all the move with the times crowd....I agree with the sentiment.

But to label this new offering a Defender is pure marketing BS and mildly delusional.

No more delusional than calling a new Range Rover a "Range Rover" or a Discovery a "Discovery"

Lets face it, what does the latest Discovery have in common with a Discovery 1 ?

[Arapiles]

I like it. It looks smart and modern.
The old was the old and the new the new. Move on.
I hope they do do a commercial / tradie / poverty pack edition which will prob keep the "hose it out brigade" happy.
But in the meantime, all the modern safety stuff saves lives.

The Commercial model is mentioned at the bottom of this page:

Choose Your Model - Land Rover Defender - Land Rover UK (https://www.landrover.co.uk/vehicles/defender/models.html)

[puma]

I have been pretty vocal about my dislike early on, however I don’t hate the new defender, I just think it’s a better disco than a defender.

I can’t help but wonder if they could have gone down another route, for the sake of the brands longetivy. Hyperthetically, if they had made the new defender as simple as possible, as robust as possible and as cheap as possible, then young people may be able to afford them, do adventurous things in them, love them and ultimately look back at those years of their lives as some of the best they have had.

Then later in life, when they have climbed some of the ladder, by a luxury car with the same badge (for the nostalgia) which is much better suited to moving the kids around and or towing a caravan.

I know that’s a long game, but might pay off once all cars are electric and are basically just competing on image and price.

Who knows, maybe that ship has already sailed. The Rivian looks like a puposful machine and if that’s a sign of things to come then I’m on board, literally and metaphorically.

[Fubar]

No more delusional than calling a new Range Rover a "Range Rover" or a Discovery a "Discovery"

Lets face it, what does the latest Discovery have in common with a Discovery 1 ?

A whole lot more than my Defender has.

[Homestar]

This is interesting!



Stopping power

There is no mechanical link between the brake pedal and the brake discs. Instead the Defender gets a brake-by-wire system claimed to provide more “precise, linear brake pressures”. Engineers also say the electronic braking system helps with off-road traction due to the ability to better regulate braking to each individual wheel.




Quite. Does that meet ADR’s? Will have to go have a look. Some time ago I recall something about there needing to be a mechanical connection between the pedal and the brakes. What happens if that computer craps it’s pants? Not saying it’s not legal or safe, I’m sure there’s more than one backup, but yes, very interesting.

[Homestar]

Quite. Does that meet ADR’s? Will have to go have a look. Some time ago I recall something about there needing to be a mechanical connection between the pedal and the brakes. What happens if that computer craps it’s pants? Not saying it’s not legal or safe, I’m sure there’s more than one backup, but yes, very interesting.

Well you learn something every day - the original ADR 31 was repealed and is now up to revision 4, which although was released in 2017 only becomes mandatory over the old one from July 2019. It has much more detail about what the systems must and must not do, but not how this should be accomplished so it would seem theses sort of systems are being allowed for. Failure of the system shall bring the brakes on so a failsafe system which is probably not that hard to achieve and makes sense.

Here’s the whole standard for those interested - Vehicle Standard (Australian Design Rule 31/04 – Brake Systems for Passenger Cars) 2017 (https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/F2017L01214)

Has a lot of detail around regenerative braking for EV’s too, so it’s probably all come about as new tech enters the arena. Interesting reading. 👍

[DeanoH]

Well I guess this release makes it official, Land Rover is no longer in the business of making an OFF ROAD four wheel drive.

The emphasis here being on OFF ROAD. Sure it may be a good SUV even an excellent one, only time will tell. At the moment it's just another pretty boy SUV, no more, no less. A totally unproven soft roader (by design) regardless of all the glamour and glitz and waiting. A better model designation would have been Discovery 6 in an attempt to rescue the name/product line after the Disco 5's lack lustre impact or even Freelander 4.

Personally I feel cheated as I (and many others) held hope that Land Rover would actually come up with an OFF ROAD capable vehicle. I've been strung along for 3 years by Land Rover who promised the world but have come up with a hairdressers car and not a serious OFF ROAD vehicle. Maybe there's no longer a market for vehicles with this capability ?, OFF ROAD capability that is. But if Land Rover (or anyone else really) actually thinks a monocoque construction, air bag suspension, auto only, lawn mower sized engine with it's neck wrung fitted with 18"-20" tyres is a serious OFF ROAD contender, then IMO .......... 'they're dreaming'.

If I wanted an OFF ROAD capable 4WD of this size I guess the 79 series is now the only option, that or a second hand traditional Defender. It will be interesting to see how the release of this new Defender effects the prices of older Defenders. I'd expect something similar to the value maintenance of the last of the 6 cylinder intercooled/turbo Landcruisers and Patrols.

Then again, if I was after a mid/large size SUV then the new Defender may just fit the bill. :)


Deano :)

[Slunnie]

Thats what everybody said when the Disco2 came out and then again when the Disco3 came out.

But everybody were surprised at how capable they all were when they got the into the bush. I havent heard anybody say these are not capable for a very long time.

I think it will be the same with the new Defender.... if it's not dragging its belly! :lol2:

[EastFreo]

When I first saw it last night I was a bit conflicted but over the day it has grown on me.

More importantly, my wife has seriously embraced it and it is now the front runner option to replace her Prado. And I think this is exactly the sort of market Land Rover is pursuing.

I certainly won’t be letting go of my 110 but I am pretty excited about the thought of adding the new one to the family. Can be added to my Dad’s 1993 TDI and my father in law’s 1948 series 1 (and once my 11 year old hits 17 he has a 90 on the shopping list).

Only thing is I contacted the dealer and they aren’t expecting them in until March/April.

[Homestar]

Well I guess this release makes it official, Land Rover is no longer in the business of making an OFF ROAD four wheel drive.

The emphasis here being on OFF ROAD. Sure it may be a good SUV even an excellent one, only time will tell. At the moment it's just another pretty boy SUV, no more, no less. A totally unproven soft roader (by design) regardless of all the glamour and glitz and waiting. A better model designation would have been Discovery 6 in an attempt to rescue the name/product line after the Disco 5's lack lustre impact or even Freelander 4.

Personally I feel cheated as I (and many others) held hope that Land Rover would actually come up with an OFF ROAD capable vehicle. I've been strung along for 3 years by Land Rover who promised the world but have come up with a hairdressers car and not a serious OFF ROAD vehicle. Maybe there's no longer a market for vehicles with this capability ?, OFF ROAD capability that is. But if Land Rover (or anyone else really) actually thinks a monocoque construction, air bag suspension, auto only, lawn mower sized engine with it's neck wrung fitted with 18"-20" tyres is a serious OFF ROAD contender, then IMO .......... 'they're dreaming'.

If I wanted an OFF ROAD capable 4WD of this size I guess the 79 series is now the only option, that or a second hand traditional Defender. It will be interesting to see how the release of this new Defender effects the prices of older Defenders. I'd expect something similar to the value maintenance of the last of the 6 cylinder intercooled/turbo Landcruisers and Patrols.

Then again, if I was after a mid/large size SUV then the new Defender may just fit the bill. :)


Deano :)

I think this will run rings around a 79 series off road. You don’t really make any compelling arguments at all - every engine option is more powerful than the last Defender and there’s more to come, airbags are proven tech off road now, and if you’ve ever driven even a slightly modern Land Rover off road you’ll know that the Auto runs rings around a manual. Even my 2003 model L322 was way ahead of any manual models made much later - it creamed other vehicles off road - with 20” road tyres, air bags and auto and that’s 15 year old tech. After driving old tech and slightly newer tech, I know which I’d take - and I’m a bit of a Luddite myself.

Just try driving something newer and see how good they actually are off road - I think it would change your mind. 👍

[shanegtr]

wou;dnt be hard to run rings around a stock 79 offroad - they are not the best in stock form IMHO.

[scarry]

Just try driving something newer and see how good they actually are off road - I think it would change your mind. 👍

Correct,there is just no comparison,i have both here,and have had them for quite a few years.

I know which one does it the easiest in almost all situations by a country mile.And the diffs are tucked up out of the way as well.

The EAS vehicles just need a good set of boots,as the OEM tyres and sizes are ridiculous.

Good to see the new Defender has the OEM option of 18's.

[rar110]

Thats what everybody said when the Disco2 came out and then again when the Disco3 came out.

But everybody were surprised at how capable they all were when they got the into the bush. I havent heard anybody say these are not capable for a very long time.

I think it will be the same with the new Defender.... if it's not dragging its belly! :lol2:

Same said about first coil sprung 110s/90s, and when lighter drive flanges introduced on 300tdi/disco/later RR classic so alloys could be fitted.

[DazzaTD5]

A whole lot more than my Defender has.

A new Discovery has zero in common with a Discovery 1.
A Discovery 3 and onwards has zero in common with a Discovery 1.
Your Defender (assuming its a pre 2016 model [tonguewink] ) has a commonality to a Disco 1.
The Defender upto 2016 was the last link to the original Range Rover classic design.
I wouldnt expect a "new" Defender model to have any link to a design from 1970.

What I did expect was a Defender that was going to be just another "award winning" clone of current models from Land Rover.

So far it looks like its not.
BUT keep in mind Land Rover have always been dam good at PR and marketing BS.

The only single question left:
Will the Defender have a good build quality and will it be reliable.

[discorevy]

The only single question left:
Will the Defender have a good build quality and will it be reliable.


and that's the $64000 question Dazza, maybe I'm being a glass half full type on this but to my mind a lack of involvement by FoMoCo should give it half a chance of being reliable.......time will tell

[cripesamighty]

That's my take on it too. Given that the general rule of thumb for a new 4WD to be used like it was meant to be, is 7 years and on it's third owner, how well will the new Defender hold up in the 2nd hand market? That will be it's true test, when it is outside of it's warranty period and components begin to age. I would still like one to have a play in the outback though!

[1950landy]

I don't mind the new defender although it just looks like another Disco , but I much prefer the Lego version.
154135 The new Defender driving up hill & Lego's version of it . 154136154137 driving down hill.
Wish my wouldn't do that.[bighmmm]

[DeanoH]

Just try driving something newer and see how good they actually are off road - I think it would change your mind. 👍

I don't really see a problem with this vehicle as a day to day medium weight 4WD/SUV, IMO it has the potential to be as good as any other vehicle in this category, only time will tell.

What I'm disappointed with is its (for me) total lack of serious OFF ROAD capability when compared with a traditional Defender. I consider OFF ROAD capability to actually be a vehicles capability off the road, not how well it can manage a formed road or track, however rough, washed out or whatever but actually off road. Particularly in the desert regions of Australia. Where this vehicle will fail miserably when compared to a traditional Defender is with it's air bag suspension and tyre/rim choices.

How do you reckon you'd go driving through this with the tyre/rim combo's that come with the new Defender ?

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=154142&d=1568282443


One of the hazards of driving through desert country is bloody Holly Grevillia. It grows like a weed, dies and leaves a carpet of extremely hard and brittle twigs all over the place. It's like driving through a layer of 3" nails with multiple staked tyres being a common daily occurrence.

The old Defender with its standard 7.50R16 8 ply tyres can handle this straight out of the box, even better if upgraded to 10 or 12 ply tyres and/or with 8.25R16's which can come with even stronger side walls. The new Defenders air bags would be lucky to last a day in this without at least one being holed. The old Defender's coils of course would be fine. An old Series would traverse this terrain better than the new Defender. There are no 18+" tyres that I know of that will fit the new Defender that would survive this and that's even before considering the new defenders comparative low profile tyres lack of air down capability.

This is one aspect of the new Defenders design which for me is a complete failure in that it is not as tough/capable as its predecessor. It may be able to drive through the snow in the mountains of Kazakhstan or wherever but useless in the Australian desert.

Deano :)

[bob10]

I don't really see a problem with this vehicle as a day to day medium weight 4WD/SUV, IMO it has the potential to be as good as any other vehicle in this category, only time will tell.

What I'm disappointed with is its (for me) total lack of serious OFF ROAD capability when compared with a traditional Defender. I consider OFF ROAD capability to actually be a vehicles capability off the road, not how well it can manage a formed road or track, however rough, washed out or whatever but actually off road. Particularly in the desert regions of Australia. Where this vehicle will fail miserably when compared to a traditional Defender is with it's air bag suspension and tyre/rim choices.

How do you reckon you'd go driving through this with the tyre/rim combo's that come with the new Defender ?

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachments/general-chat/154142d1568282443-new-defender-haters-gonna-hate-path-ahead.jpg


One of the hazards of driving through desert country is bloody Holly Grevillia. It grows like a weed, dies and leaves a carpet of extremely hard and brittle twigs all over the place. It's like driving through a layer of 3" nails with multiple staked tyres being a common daily occurrence.

The old Defender with its standard 7.50R16 8 ply tyres can handle this straight out of the box, even better if upgraded to 10 or 12 ply tyres and/or with 8.25R16's which can come with even stronger side walls. The new Defenders air bags would be lucky to last a day in this without at least one being holed. The old Defender's coils of course would be fine. An old Series would traverse this terrain better than the new Defender. There are no 18+" tyres that I know of that will fit the new Defender that would survive this and that's even before considering the new defenders comparative low profile tyres lack of air down capability.

This is one aspect of the new Defenders design which for me is a complete failure in that it is not as tough/capable as its predecessor. It may be able to drive through the snow in the mountains of Kazakhstan or wherever but useless in the Australian desert.

Deano :)

Agree. However the new Defender hasn't been designed for anything more than being an upper middle class [ high income earner] plaything. And it will be a magnificent plaything. Just don't expect it to do what the old defender could. One thing that stood out for me was the article that when they wanted to demonstrate the recovery points, which are behind covers which need to be removed before you can use them, and upon being told to get the ' defender' really bogged, it took 5 hours for the recovery. Now, this isn't a criticism of the new vehicle, but surely it highlights how little research was done in actual off road situations. How many of the prototypes were tested in Australia for example. A wonderful vehicle for the 21st century, but , at this point, until some one takes one thru the Simpson, up the Canning , or the cape the hard way, please don't call it a defender.

[carjunkieanon]

I'm a die-hard old school Defender tragic (and prefer the Series tbh) but...for putting my family in and expecting my wife to drive, I bought a D2.

I expected to HATE the new Defender but...looks flipping awesome.

To all the people complaining that it won't be as good off-road, or as tough as the old one - have you not read what LR put it through in testing??

I'm part way through watching this 2 hour video.
YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bi7yyMaS3Kk)

Lots of lovely old LR's to enjoy. Up to the bit where he muses on the future of the Wrangler and G-Wagon and if there was any point in LR making the new Defender anything like them. He's already pondered the wisdom (and pitfalls) of either keeping or retiring the Defender name.

Would I buy a new Defender if I could afford it? Absolutely...if our experience with the D2's hadn't somewhat soured my wife towards the brand.

[DiscoMick]

I remember when people said the D3 was gonna be too soft and no good off road. They were wrong and had to eat their words. I predict the same thing will happen with the new Defender. The tyres and airbags will be fine and the critics will have to eat their words.

Quite a number of good AT tyres available in 275/65/18, including the BFG AT.

275/65 R18 Tyres | Tyresales (https://www.tyresales.com.au/tyre/size/275-65r18)

[3toes]

Cannot find the link to the story however did find one which was questioning why the new defender had not been tested in Australia. Their point being the the Mercedes G wagon failed when tested in Australia so why had the new defender not been given a similar test to ensure is not going to fail the same as such a failure would destroy the marque in Australia where there is a residual opinion based on experience with Land Rover in the sixties that is still carried by the brand.

[Meccles]

I read interesting article unfortunately couldn’t cut and paste it. Basically JLR admitted that outgoing Defender was unsafe, pretty uncomfortable, not the most reliable - and most importantly- very few people wanted one. They could not afford to replicate that and survive. I suspect that it will be way more competent than we’d think off road. As others have said the ability of D3/D4 L322/l320 Offroad has proven to be much better than many thought. The most important question already asked on here is - will the reliability be any good? It can’t afford not to be given lack of dealers, or people that will be able or willing to service one.

[SBD4]

...One thing that stood out for me was the article that when they wanted to demonstrate the recovery points, which are behind covers which need to be removed before you can use them, and upon being told to get the ' defender' really bogged, it took 5 hours for the recovery. Now, this isn't a criticism of the new vehicle, but surely it highlights how little research was done in actual off road situations....

I think you may have miss-read this one one Bob, it happened while testing the product, not during a demonstration. They were explaining that the due to testing program they did pick this up as an issue resulting in better access on the final product:


16 - Recovery points

As they are on many modern Land Rovers, recovery points are hidden behind styling fascias, requiring their removal to access them. Engineers headed for the mud of Eastnor Castle in England (https://www.whichcar.com.au/explore/land-rover-experience-eastnor-castle) – a famous Land Rover test facility – to test the recovery points of the new Defender. With the aim of getting the car bogged, the head of the accessories program, Sean Henstridge, then instructed his team to remove the quarter turn fixings attaching the plastic fascias to then expose the recovery points. It took five hours to recover the car, prompting the development of an accessory front cover that leaves the lashing points exposed.

Additionally Land Rover specifically state that coverings for recovery points should be removed before going off road anyway. In the test case above, I believe they were trying to test worst case scenarios where drivers don't take the time to understand their vehicles and go blindly into things. It's also why they do much of their testing with low profile tyres...they are wanting to make it as difficult as possible for the car by using the worst tyre/rim combinations to ensure it can still perform with those limitations.

[shanegtr]

Recovery points at the rear seem in a decent position to me:
154151

[DazzaTD5]

"However the new Defender hasn't been designed for anything more than being an upper middle class [ high income earner] plaything"

I'm amazed at wild statements such as this, I'm guessing its based on..

*Factory recovery points that no previous Defender had.
*Approach, departure, ground clearance, gearing, equal or better than previous Defenders.
*Larger capacity fuel tank than previous Defenders.
*Centre front row seat option that was dropped in previous model Defenders.
*Deeper fording depth than previous Defenders.
*Better traction control than previous Defenders.

I'm sure there will be many more things the new Defender will do far better than the old model.
It might even be reliable and put together properly.

But dont hold your breathe [tonguewink]

[DeanoH]

I remember when people said the D3 was gonna be too soft and no good off road. They were wrong and had to eat their words. I predict the same thing will happen with the new Defender. The tyres and airbags will be fine and the critics will have to eat their words.

Quite a number of good AT tyres available in 275/65/18, including the BFG AT.

275/65 R18 Tyres | Tyresales (https://www.tyresales.com.au/tyre/size/275-65r18)

You're missing my point here Mick :) The old Defender has serious off road capability, superior to nearly every other 4WD including the Discos/RR's etc with the trade off being a certain 'lack of refinement' shall we say :). Again, by off road I'm referring to actually off the road or bush driving, a capability the old Defender has 'in spades'. The new Defender does not have this capability and as such is now 'back with the pack' potentially no better or no worse than any other comparable medium duty 4WD or SUV. Putting the advertising hype aside it's actually worse off as it's a totally unproven product regardless of various paid endorsements by motoring personalities and the like.

The new Defender may set a new marque in automotive excellence as the RR Classic did in its day but it is not and never can be (by design) a seriously off road capable 4WD like the old Defender. ie. I just can't see Len Beadell jumping into his new Defender and heading off into the Great Sandy Desert with any expectation of actually getting it to the other side. :)

And no Mick, the tyres and airbags won't be OK in a bush driving scenario such as I've outlined as they're not designed/manufactured to do so. I've no doubt they're perfectly capable of doing a good job on the roads and tracks etc they've been designed for (not withstanding the usual Land Rover cock ups :) ) but in the serious stuff, not a chance.

On a more positive note perhaps Land Rover will come up with a more conventional coil setup for the 130 ? though monocoque construction, tiny engine, auto only will surely be a dis-incentive for a potential off road/bush driving buyer. Perhaps there's too few of us left out there to worry about ? :(, but one thing is for sure, the new Defender is certainly not on my list for this type of work. Maybe for use as a conventional 4WD/SUV in my dotage but certainly not in the serious stuff. The Toyota 79 series has this sand pit all to itself now but whether it's an economic market or not I don't know.

Deano :)

[shanegtr]

The Toyota 79 series has this sand pit all to itself now but whether it's an economic market or not I don't know.

Deano :)Definatly not an economic market to sell to as the old defender sales showed. Plus 70 series don't exactly sell big volumes worldwide and Australia is one of the biggest markets for them. That would be the number one competitor in that segment. Why would anyone build something to compete in that market - its guaranteed to fail.

[DazzaTD5]

argh... the uninformed BS is rolling now.
its not designed to do, its a city vehicle, bluh bluh.
A few weeks ago at a BBQ (yes I try to avoid people on a social level) some **** was new to the mining sector up north so he had all these years of experience in stories to tell. He stated the 79 series Cruiser was not as good as the older ones, "its more of a city vehicle".

I felt the need to correct him in stating, the 79 had more power torque, was lower geared, disc brakes on the rear, better all round and he was a dickhead.

Of course I wouldnt call any AULRO member a dickhead [tonguewink]

DONT WORRY IF YOU DONT LIKE THE NEW DEFENDER, THERE ARE PLENTY OF OLD ONES LEFT (they just arent as good)

[shack]

argh... the uninformed BS is rolling now.
its not designed to do, its a city vehicle, bluh bluh.
A few weeks ago at a BBQ (yes I try to avoid people on a social level) some **** was new to the mining sector up north so he had all these years of experience in stories to tell. He stated the 79 series Cruiser was not as good as the older ones, "its more of a city vehicle".

I felt the need to correct him in stating, the 79 had more power torque, was lower geared, disc brakes on the rear, better all round and he was a dickhead.

Of course I wouldnt call any AULRO member a dickhead [tonguewink]

DONT WORRY IF YOU DONT LIKE THE NEW DEFENDER, THERE ARE PLENTY OF OLD ONES LEFT (they just arent as good)Hang on....

Are you saying that if we don't WANT to buy the New Defender, we don't have to?

We can own /drive another car instead, even an old Defender if we like?

This information has me shook!

Everyone needs to be told this, so they can stop worrying about all the flaws in the new one and simply drive the older more superior ones they already have if so desired.

[scarry]

"However the new Defender hasn't been designed for anything more than being an upper middle class [ high income earner] plaything"

I'm amazed at wild statements such as this, I'm guessing its based on..

*Factory recovery points that no previous Defender had.
*Approach, departure, ground clearance, gearing, equal or better than previous Defenders.
*Larger capacity fuel tank than previous Defenders.
*Centre front row seat option that was dropped in previous model Defenders.
*Deeper fording depth than previous Defenders.
*Better traction control than previous Defenders.

I'm sure there will be many more things the new Defender will do far better than the old model.
It might even be reliable and put together properly.

But dont hold your breathe [tonguewink]

It’s also a lot safer.

[DazzaTD5]

so they can stop worrying about all the flaws in the new one

Well in general Defender owners have never worried about the flaws in the old one, so why start worrying now [tonguewink]

[shack]

Well in general Defender owners have never worried about the flaws in the old one, so why start worrying now [tonguewink]Sorry to be a party pooper, but you misspelled "flaws" , it should be spelled "floors" , and you don't have to worry about them in the old one as they are aluminum and can easily be hosed out.;)

[bob10]

DONT WORRY IF YOU DONT LIKE THE NEW DEFENDER, THERE ARE PLENTY OF OLD ONES LEFT (they just arent as good)

And now they have just increased in price , by how much remains to be seen. How many of these new SUV's will be seen in Africa, apart from Cape town. I'm betting Australian corrugations will sort out the 85 ECU's and the 20,000 bits/second , reasonably quickly. And good luck maintaining them yourself. BTW, how many of these new SUV's will be working in the mines? Sorry to be negative, but I think a Mahindra, with upgraded suspension, would be as good off road as this 21st century marvel.

[DiscoMick]

I own an old Defender so I know what they can do. BTW no problems with the airbags in the back of mine in bush driving.
I think the new Defender has moved the debate forwards and will be just fine on 18s and good tyres.
It's called progress.

[EastFreo]

I'm a die-hard old school Defender tragic (and prefer the Series tbh) but...for putting my family in and expecting my wife to drive, I bought a D2.

I expected to HATE the new Defender but...looks flipping awesome.

To all the people complaining that it won't be as good off-road, or as tough as the old one - have you not read what LR put it through in testing??

I'm part way through watching this 2 hour video.
YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bi7yyMaS3Kk)

Lots of lovely old LR's to enjoy. Up to the bit where he muses on the future of the Wrangler and G-Wagon and if there was any point in LR making the new Defender anything like them. He's already pondered the wisdom (and pitfalls) of either keeping or retiring the Defender name.

Would I buy a new Defender if I could afford it? Absolutely...if our experience with the D2's hadn't somewhat soured my wife towards the brand.
Great video. Ha.f way through and enjoying. Also with you. Almost got the wife on board to lock in one

[EastFreo]

What I should say is in our area we have been Land Rover die hards for ever. I can honestly say on our farm we had land rovers going for ever till now. Still got the last one - Chugga- going. And of course mine as my daily driver.

[djam1]

Just a Land Rover badge on an FJ Cruiser

[Disco-tastic]

And now they have just increased in price , by how much remains to be seen. How many of these new SUV's will be seen in Africa, apart from Cape town. I'm betting Australian corrugations will sort out the 85 ECU's and the 20,000 bits/second , reasonably quickly. And good luck maintaining them yourself. BTW, how many of these new SUV's will be working in the mines? Sorry to be negative, but I think a Mahindra, with upgraded suspension, would be as good off road as this 21st century marvel.From everything I've read the ECUs are the most reliable part of the D3/4. The old ones had issues with dead brake lights causing cascading faults, the brake light switch is a known weak point (FoMoCo part) and the handbrakes have issues if not serviced. Its the mechanical stuff wearing out, and usually due to poor maintenance.

Oh Yeah some diesels decide they dont like their oil pump or crank. Oh and some HP fuel pumps take a wee on the exhaust manifolds and start a fire.

But the electrics seem to be pretty robust.

I am aware some of the range rovers and D5s have had issues with the ICE electronics not working properly, but thats not a show stopper when travelling.

Corrugations can break any vehicle. From what ive seen the air suspended Discoveries and FFRR deal with them better than most any other vehicle.

[rick130]

Going right back to the TD5, the ECU's are impressively reliable.

The interconnecting wiring at times though...

[DazzaTD5]

And now they have just increased in price , by how much remains to be seen. How many of these new SUV's will be seen in Africa, apart from Cape town. I'm betting Australian corrugations will sort out the 85 ECU's and the 20,000 bits/second , reasonably quickly. And good luck maintaining them yourself. BTW, how many of these new SUV's will be working in the mines? Sorry to be negative, but I think a Mahindra, with upgraded suspension, would be as good off road as this 21st century marvel.

*IMHO over time I think we might see a drop in price of old models.
*Yes I agree, Australia's harshness will show if Jaguar Land Rover has actually addressed build quality and reliability that they haven't managed to do throughout history.
*"And good luck maintaining them yourself" Well there isnt that many owners that can change out a failed clutch, adapter shaft, warped manifolds, failed gearbox, blown head gaskets etc etc on older models.
*Complying with laws and regulations, be them good or bad, is the reality that car manufacturers need to address. A older model any vehicle is simply not going to do this.

[PhilipA]

Looking at the release videos on Youtube, I was struck by the negativity of the comments.

My conclusion is that the new Defender will have to find a completely new market to the old Defender .

As one commenter said , all the English farmers now drive Chinese or Indian utes.

In Australia the old Defender only used to sell 30-50 a month if that so there were very few people that saw their benefits, and it looks like most of them are on this forum.

IMHO backed by 15 years in the motor industry the new Defender in Australia will find a completely new market. It will heavily cannibalize D5 sales as Australians value practicality over style. Witness the sales of Prado.

At first it will sell well regardless, but its ultimate success will be determined by its pricing. The 2 door will sell for a while and after a year or two will fall to low numbers and probably be discontinued, as has every other 2 door 4x4.

To expect LR to value attributes that are interest to Australians is just fantasy. LR is geared towards the USA, China and Europe. Australia is not even a blip on their radar. No long Range tank, excessive electronics great big wheels , electric brakes.(BTW no has mentioned that Bosch sold this idea to MB a few years ago and they tried it and it was AFAIK a disaster.) I wonder how electric brakes will go after a few stops in a river. Hope the IP67 works after some mechanics have been fiddling. Note the dinky little box on the side and a 6.5 litre pressure tank to wash off the blood after grouse shooting. How useful is that! SARC.
Besides all of that I love it and if I win Lotto will put my order in immediately, but then I don't expect to drive through virgin scrub. Hope there is room for a Long range tank.
Regards PhilipA

[bob10]

I think my thoughts are clouded by the fact I will never be able to afford one. No doubt they will be perfect for what they have been designed to do. Oh well, there's always Mahindra. Go out Toowoomba way, quite a few Mahindras , I've been told you can pick up a good second hand one reasonably priced.

[Saitch]

I think my thoughts are clouded by the fact I will never be able to afford one. No doubt they will be perfect for what they have been designed to do. Oh well, there's always Mahindra. Go out Toowoomba way, quite a few Mahindras , I've been told you can pick up a good second hand one reasonably priced.

You can pick up a new one at a reasonable price and there's more room in the dual cab than "Thailand Trucks".[thumbsupbig]

I'd still like a new defender.

[scarry]

Corrugations can break any vehicle. From what ive seen the air suspended Discoveries and FFRR deal with them better than most any other vehicle.

On this site,think i have seen one issue ever,that has been caused by rough roads,they are pretty well engineered.
And that was a late model RR or Sport that was under warranty.

People that carry on that they are fragile,have no idea what they are talking about.

Sure a set of coils and solid axles is simpler,but the advantage of EAS over coils is huge.

Mine has done thousands of k's on corrugated roads,and is on original suspension components,but LCA's now need replacing,which is more of a maintenance issue,than a failure.

[bob10]

You can pick up a new one at a reasonable price and there's more room in the dual cab than "Thailand Trucks".[thumbsupbig]

I'd still like a new defender.

Me too, but we have to live in the real World. Alan whiting of Outback Travel Australia gives the Mahindra a good wrap. I'll post his you tube assessment on Walrus. Alan gives a honest assessment, warts and all.

[prelude]

In the motorcycle world they have a product that would fit the new defender: Spray-On Mud for Adventure Motorcycles - Rogue Motorcycle (https://roguemotorcycle.com/blog/spray-on-mud-for-adventure-motorcycles/)

[bigrolf]

-P

[3toes]

Think the issue here is that people were waiting for a Defender replacement which was not what Land Rover was intending to build. The vehicle they have released looks very much like the DC prototype that was shown back in 2011.

This may go some way to explaining why there was such a gap between stopping production of the Defender and the replacement vehicle being released. They did not want a lot of back to back comparisons between the 2 vehicles. They are clearly targeted at different market segments and perhaps it would have been better to let the name die and come up with a new name. It is not that the new Defender is a bad vehicle it is just not intended to do what the old one was for. Something that the powers that be in Land Rover seem to be happy with.

Some quotes from Gerry McGovern when speaking about the new Defender at the launch might assist people to understand a little more

"We've made that transition in the past ten years from a specialist brand, to a purveyor of luxury vehicles with more universal appeal"

"it's all about these very clean but very sophisticated surfaces which send subliminal messages that say 'looks tough, is tough'"

"There a super poster in the early days of Defender that shows the Defender in various proliferations, in a lot of utilities, electricity board, gas board, ambulance, forestry commission, firetruck. And you can argue that this isn't necessarily going that way"

This message is only re-enforced by the word from Land Rover that a commercial version of the Defender is not going to happen with Land Rover saying that the regular four Defender is already a double cab with a roof and therefore there's no need for a separate model. (Not sure if who ever said this was able to keep a straight face??!!) Now this may be company speak for we are not ready to let our competitors in on our model development plans for the Defender however based on the above comments from Gerry McGovern do not like the chances of the new Defender being seen as a commercial vehicle during design phase as that would not fit with the "a purveyor of luxury vehicles".

My thoughts are heading more towards the Defender being a replacement for the Discovery 4 and the Discovery being a 4x4 7 seat people mover for families. There being no intention to replace the Defender as this type of vehicle is part of Land Rovers history not what those in charge see as the future. What taking this in remember globally last year Land Rover sold more Discovery Sport than Toyota sold Landcruisers

Does Jeep have a better understanding of the market hence the new Wrangler and Gladiator derivative than Land Rover?
Can Jeep do this as they are not in the Luxury car market?
Why does Mercedes persist with the low volume G Wagon which has only recently had a significant redesign?
Does having a 'proper' 4x4 in your range which can be seen do the hand stuff create the halo effect necessary for the luxury models to flourish?

[jon3950]

The D3/4s biggest problem with corrugations is that you can travel so bloody fast over them.

I really like the lack of technology in my current Defender and accept the limitations this creates. Equally I enjoyed the technology of the D4. I have no problem with the technology in the new Defender and I’m sure it will prove to be robust.

The things I don’t like about the new one are simply:
- The styling is way too fussy and goes against the form follows function ethos of the original.
- The lack of space in the back of the 110 makes it look like a poor choice for a touring vehicle.
- The bloody price.

[scarry]

The D3/4s biggest problem with corrugations is that you can travel so bloody fast over them.

I really like the lack of technology in my current Defender and accept the limitations this creates. Equally I enjoyed the technology of the D4. I have no problem with the technology in the new Defender and I’m sure it will prove to be robust.

The things I don’t like about the new one are simply:
- The styling is way too fussy and goes against the form follows function ethos of the original.
- The lack of space in the back of the 110 makes it look like a poor choice for a touring vehicle.
- The bloody price.

Looking at the actual specs,it is 200mm shorter in the rear with the second row seats up and 100MM lower,than D4.

Just packed my D4 today for another trip away,and if it was 200mm shorter,i will have difficulty.Thats 8 inches!.

Remember the D1 to D2 days,well the D2 was only 150mm longer,internally,and it seemed way bigger.

Yes i know what some will say,leave something behind.....[bighmmm]

Well if it had a larger fuel tank maybe i could turf out the jerry[biggrin]

So the 130 may be the go for me,but its years away.

Oh well,life wasn't meant to be easy[biggrin]

[bob10]

Richard Hammond reveals the new defender.
oops. see if I can fix it.


richard hammond reveale the new defender you tube - Bing video (https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=richard+hammond+reveale+the+new+defender+ you+tube&view=detail&mid=4E9CCFC1EDACB878B9E04E9CCFC1EDACB878B9E0&FORM=VIRE)

[RANDLOVER]

I didn't like the little lights at the back, as I thought they should be round like the old Defender's/Series', thought they are having a bet each way with rounded off squares, that are being called "squircles". I like them, now that I've noticed they are repeated in the headlights, so the same sort of theme as the old ones, same shaped little lights front and back.

I must say I am more excited about it than the D5. Especially now that I notice stand out black plastic wheel arches can be had, which the old Defenders had, and have given me confidence to go close to objects besides tracks in my D3, although I think I do have a scratch (pro'ly can be polished out) where a twig has slipped off the plastic and onto the paint, which is why I like the "Satin Wrap" idea (I know this can be done now aftermarket on any car). Even better if it had a rubbing strip like down the side of the G-wagens. I like the styling cues, slanted roof, alpine windows, rounded shoulders, flat sides, square back, jump seat, bar like dash, spare wheel on side opening door, etc. I like that the snorkel is on the left side of the car, so the driver doesn't have to see it every time they get in, as they can be rather ugly, although the new one is nicely integrated.

So all told, it is really growing on me, although I'd like to see some drive reports, which don't seem to be available yet.

[cripesamighty]

Hopefully it works out better than some Land Rover products, where the car reviewers didn’t read the manual, or ask about features before going on a test drive and then doing their report slagging off the cars...

[Tins]

I'd love to try it but saying it's more linear than a conventional system?
You can't get much more direct/linear than the force you directly apply to the MC affecting the pistons in the calipers....

I can see it being advantageous from a TC POV and from a high speed perspective you will be able to generate higher brake forces faster in an emergency.
Most people don't hit the brakes near hard enough initially in panic stops.

Or it could be good when doing laps of the 'Ring.....[emoji23]

Whether it's more linear or not, I'll bet my house it stops better than the old one ever could have dreamed of doing.

[Tins]

wou;dnt be hard to run rings around a stock 79 offroad - they are not the best in stock form IMHO.


Yep. Got all the flex of a housebrick.

[puma]

"However the new Defender hasn't been designed for anything more than being an upper middle class [ high income earner] plaything"

I'm amazed at wild statements such as this, I'm guessing its based on..

*Factory recovery points that no previous Defender had.
*Approach, departure, ground clearance, gearing, equal or better than previous Defenders.
*Larger capacity fuel tank than previous Defenders.
*Centre front row seat option that was dropped in previous model Defenders.
*Deeper fording depth than previous Defenders.
*Better traction control than previous Defenders.

I'm sure there will be many more things the new Defender will do far better than the old model.
It might even be reliable and put together properly.

But dont hold your breathe [tonguewink]

I’m pretty sure the approach angle is 38 degrees on the new 110 as opposed to 49 in the outgoing model, I’m expecting this to be demonstrated as soon as more car reviewers get them. The old model had less diff clearance but more underbody clearance, and time will tell whether people will be game to take the new ones wading as deep as an old one, assuming they both have snorkels.

Should make for a lot of entertaining YouTube videos! Should keep things interesting until the EV 4WDs make this new defender look old.

[cripesamighty]

I wonder if the approach angle will improve (like some other vehicles) when they start getting fitted with bullbars - all depending on design of course - OE vs aftermarket.

Also gotta wonder when the first one ends up on the ‘I got bogged at Inskip Point’ page as,
a) the bogged vehicle, and
b) the recovery vehicle!