Defender Commercial model

[Arapiles]

There's lots of fairly predictable commentary about the new Defender (for example, on YouTube) saying that it's too luxurious to be a Defender. Can't see putting sheep in the back of that one, etc etc.

As I suggested a few times on the "It won't be retro thread" all it takes for the new Defender to be turned into a work vehicle is vinyl trim.

if you scroll down to the bottom of the link below you'll see a future Defender Commercial model. These would be like the Defender commercial that we don't get in Australia, which are all vinyl trim etc.

Choose Your Model - Land Rover Defender - Land Rover UK (https://www.landrover.co.uk/vehicles/defender/models.html)

You'll also note the 18 inch steel wheels and I'd guess it runs on coils rather than EAS ..... but curious to see how much of the dash electronics they get.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

the floor is supposed to be moppable,, so I'd have to assume at least the lower trims would be water resistant?

[Pedro_The_Swift]

and...

wouldnt LR rather sell a hundred commercial models here than ten X models?

[incisor]

should i ever win lotto, i'm up for the commercial version [tonguewink]

[SPROVER]

Is it predictable because it might be true ?

[Arapiles]

We probably won't get the full-blown commercial model but the point is that there are more practical options available.

[blackrangie]

Steel wheels avail in oz on au builder

[scarry]

and...

wouldnt LR rather sell a hundred commercial models here than ten X models?

I doubt they would sell many commercial models here at all,thats why they have never brought them over.

To many utes,vans,etc,that have already proved themselves.

[Arapiles]

Is it predictable because it might be true ?

There were luxury versions of the old Defender .... that didn't make them less of a Defender.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

I doubt they would sell many commercial models here at all,thats why they have never brought them over.

To many utes,vans,etc,that have already proved themselves.

I wasnt thinking commercial for business, more solid colours and less trim doodads, oh and steel wheels,, all more in line with the old Defer...

[PhilipA]

Funny , LRs main market for Defender was organisations that needed extreme off road ability like charities such as bomb clearing, the UN, and for the 90 British farmers.

SWB 4x4s have never been successful in Australia. The 2 door Prado , the 2 door Pajero, the 90 itself even the 2door Rav4 died a quick death. If they bring the 90 in, then it will sell initially to "early adopters" but after a relatively short time will be discontinued. How many 2 door Evoques do you see? I saw one at my local supermarket and had to do a double take as I have never seen one before or since.

I think the Defender 110 will be successful as the old one never was as it looks like a viable alternative to Prado. BUT the pricing will be the thing that kills or makes it. GBP 45K starting price in UK. Hmmm.
That is about AUD 80K and add some options like metallic paint and 100K is in sight. Even Mercedes don't charge that for the ute anyway which is rumoured to be discontinued due to poor sales.
Regards PhilipA

[dromader driver]

I was looking at other options to replace the 110 defender tray back when the G wagon was being promoted at the AFAC conference in Brisbane. They wanted 105K for the cab chassis and would throw in an aly tray. If I just wanted a run around without the tray the Jimni win hands down.

Unfortunately the new thing doesn't come close. Maybe the latte set designers need to get out of the UK and have a look at outback Oz.

[blackrangie]

Looks pretty Outback friendlyhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190910/5097f5ed8c073e8ff40986b56f9c3a27.jpg

[Arapiles]

Looks pretty Outback friendlyhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190910/5097f5ed8c073e8ff40986b56f9c3a27.jpg


No, he's just spilt his latte on it.

[rick130]

No, he's just spilt his latte on it.Bwahahaha! [emoji23]

(And my piccolo nearly went everywhere![emoji15][emoji16])

[PhilipA]

There is an article on News.com.au about Oz release, presumably from LRA which states 110 pricing will start at 70K plus on road costs.
Near as dammit to 80K.
Australia will never get enough initial volume so they will at first sell well, but at 80K starters there won't be too many Prado buyers wanting a 2 litre diesel Defender, particularly if they want to tow. So in the longer term the volumes will be modest.

Regards PhilipA

[scarry]

There is an article on News.com.au about Oz release, presumably from LRA which states 110 pricing will start at 70K plus on road costs.
Near as dammit to 80K.
Australia will never get enough initial volume so they will at first sell well, but at 80K starters there won't be too many Prado buyers wanting a 2 litre diesel Defender, particularly if they want to tow. So in the longer term the volumes will be modest.

Regards PhilipA


And if they want to take customers from say LC owners,I don’t think to many will be jumping at a 4cyl 2L diesel with a small fuel tank,particularly if towing,which is a huge portion of their sales.

In fact without a large diesel,here in Aus,sales are not going to be great.

[TB]

Yeah the 85L fuel capacity for the diesel is definitely a real limitation. The 2L diesel will probably tow just fine, only at higher revs and/or lower gears. Ford are heading that way with their 10-speed auto tranny and smaller engines. The question in my mind is range.

[scarry]

Yeah the 85L fuel capacity for the diesel is definitely a real limitation. The 2L diesel will probably tow just fine, only at higher revs and/or lower gears. Ford are heading that way with their 10-speed auto tranny and smaller engines. The question in my mind is range.

And thinking more about it,some are pushing petrols,remote touring with one means decanting and carrying a fair bit of fuel,which is not real ideal,no where near as safe as diesel.

And towing,with a petrol and an 85L tank would be a PITA.Its enough of a PITA towing a large van with our diesel,which has a usable of around 76l.

[incisor]

Testing

[TB]

And thinking more about it,some are pushing petrols,remote touring with one means decanting and carrying a fair bit of fuel,which is not real ideal,no where near as safe as diesel.

And towing,with a petrol and an 85L tank would be a PITA.Its enough of a PITA towing a large van with our diesel,which has a usable of around 76l.

The spec sheet I saw for the petrol variant had a 90L tank. Probably the diesel loses space for adblue.

[cripesamighty]

Due to it's design, the old Defender (plus D1, D2 & RRC) had the option of sill tanks, rear quarter panel tank, or a larger replacement main tank if you wanted to carry more internal fuel. Looking at these pics from another thread, my first thought was, where would you fit more fuel internally in the new Defender if you required it?


154120

154121

[ramblingboy42]

what is this thing about steel wheels?

I haven't driven on steel wheels for near on 30 years...haven't had a problem.

the other thing everyone is going on about is the fuel tank. nothing wrong with 85 litres, the vehicle is more fuel efficient than the previous models.

I could get 900km out of tankful in my D2, I can get 1,000km out of 86litre tank in my Ranger both vehicles fully loaded. Whereabouts in Australia can't you drive 5-600km without finding fuel?

[Arapiles]

And if they want to take customers from say LC owners,I don’t think to many will be jumping at a 4cyl 2L diesel with a small fuel tank,particularly if towing,which is a huge portion of their sales.

In fact without a large diesel,here in Aus,sales are not going to be great.

Isn't the old Defender just 2.2 litre? And I understood that it was a very good towing machine.

[blackrangie]

Yeah the 85L fuel capacity for the diesel is definitely a real limitation. The 2L diesel will probably tow just fine, only at higher revs and/or lower gears. Ford are heading that way with their 10-speed auto tranny and smaller engines. The question in my mind is range.How is 1000km + range a limitation.

[TB]

How is 1000km + range a limitation.

No way are you getting that range from 85L when towing 3.5t.

Edit: my D4 thanks to off-road tyres, bash plates, roof rack and awning is lucky to get under 12L/100km on the highway without any significant load and towing nothing at all.

[Arapiles]

what is this thing about steel wheels?

I haven't driven on steel wheels for near on 30 years...haven't had a problem.



There is an 18 inch alloys option which I suggest that I'd take.

[blackrangie]

No way are you getting that range from 85L when towing 3.5t.

Edit: my D4 thanks to off-road tyres, bash plates, roof rack and awning is lucky to get under 12L/100km on the highway without any significant load and towing nothing at all.D5, im just talking normal range

If your towing range is not usually an issue as you usually have room for fuel storage on what you are towing.

[scarry]

How is 1000km + range a limitation.

How did you work that out?At 10l/100,thats 850K if you want to run out.

Loaded,touring,i doubt it would consistently get better than 12l/100,with some margin as you don't want to run dry.A bit of off road stuff and it will drop some more.

Towing a heavy van you will be around 16 to 18l/100 at least.

Have a look at some of the real mileage figures for the D5 people are getting,same engine,and its lighter,and they wouldn't have many accessories.

Anyway,its no deal breaker,but would be nice if it was a bit bigger.

[scarry]

Isn't the old Defender just 2.2 litre? And I understood that it was a very good towing machine.

Its fantastic,towing 3.0T,kidding,aren't you?

There is both LR's in my sig,and under the carport.

Towing with them is chalk and cheese,there is just no comparison.

[cripesamighty]

Sometimes it's not point to point distance that you want the extra fuel for. It might be so that once you get to a remote location you can do a bit of exploration while you are there. You can also get caught out by changing weather conditions with backtracking or road detours involved. A little bit of extra fuel stowage is sometimes handy (even with a frugal engine), and you don't need to completey fill long range fuel tanks at every fill up.

[blackrangie]

7.7 isnt it from memory

[Summiitt]

Funny , LRs main market for Defender was organisations that needed extreme off road ability like charities such as bomb clearing, the UN, and for the 90 British farmers.

SWB 4x4s have never been successful in Australia. The 2 door Prado , the 2 door Pajero, the 90 itself even the 2door Rav4 died a quick death. If they bring the 90 in, then it will sell initially to "early adopters" but after a relatively short time will be discontinued. How many 2 door Evoques do you see? I saw one at my local supermarket and had to do a double take as I have never seen one before or since.

I think the Defender 110 will be successful as the old one never was as it looks like a viable alternative to Prado. BUT the pricing will be the thing that kills or makes it. GBP 45K starting price in UK. Hmmm.
That is about AUD 80K and add some options like metallic paint and 100K is in sight. Even Mercedes don't charge that for the ute anyway which is rumoured to be discontinued due to poor sales.
Regards PhilipA


I looked at a G professional ute 6 months ago, $115k plus tray, plus onroad, was looking at around $135k drive away..no way, and there are very few available in OZ. I would rather buy a cruiser for that. But a GXL tray top optioned was $82k, for a single cab. With the removal of the Toyota V8 in the next year or so, I think this thing will do well, particularly in a commercial spec..Im keen to see it in the flesh, after 20+ years buying new Defenders for work, I wouldn't buy another one if it was the same as the old model, its time was/is well and truely done..

[DiscoMick]

I think there are tax reasons why a commercial version is offered in the UK. And aren't the rear seats removed?
On the LRA Defender builder site its possible to specify a basic Defender with steel wheels and ignore all the options offered. Would be interesting to know the price.

[Rick Fischer]

A commercial version that is cheaper than a Workmate or cabchassis cruiser, Now there is an idea! Ha!

Toyota Australia might have to drop their Toyota Tax??????? Ha!

JRLA is not that smart!

Cheers

RF

[Arapiles]

I think there are tax reasons why a commercial version is offered in the UK. And aren't the rear seats removed?
On the LRA Defender builder site its possible to specify a basic Defender with steel wheels and ignore all the options offered. Would be interesting to know the price.

Yes, no rear seats. Also, apparently vehicles without rear side glass have a different rego/tax treatment in the UK, and possibly also Ireland.

[prelude]

Same goes for .nl No rear seats and covered rear windows and a minimum door size, roof height and some other stuff gives you a LT registration. That saves a whole lot of road tax and it reduces a bunch of other tax costs on purchase as well, but only if you register it as a legal company. Down here we have the advantage though that you are allowed to modify the car yourself so that it no longer holds the rear seats and so on. We have every model of range rover and disco down here that is big enough modified this way. It's the poor mans way to drive them if you own a business :)

So yes, I figure a "commercial" version is going to have to happen and if not by JLR themselves, companies will pop up to do it for you.

Cheers,
-P

edit: whilst looking for an example I came across this:Deze bestelauto heeft een BMW Individual interieur - Autoblog.nl (https://www.autoblog.nl/nieuws/deze-bestelauto-heeft-een-bmw-individual-interieur-95659) we indeed even butcher station wagons to fit the law JUST to drive cheaper... I do apologize for the Dutchies [bighmmm]

[Arapiles]

.... and then there are (as a google revealed) a whole lot of businesses that fit seats back into the commercials .... but I'd presume that the commercials don't have rear airbags, so I wouldn't be putting my family back there. And you'd also wonder about side intrusion bars etc.

[blackrangie]

2020 Land Rover Defender engineering, specification and options detailed (https://www.whichcar.com.au/news/2020-land-rover-defender-examined-closer-look)
*
There will also be commercial variants of the new Defender 90 and 110, but these are yet to be confirmed for Australia, with James Scrimshaw, Land Rover Australia’s PR manager, telling us, “We are interested in bringing the commercial variants to Australia and will be ordering evaluation units once they are made available to us.”

[PhilipA]

.. and then there are (as a google revealed) a whole lot of businesses that fit seats back into the commercials .... but I'd presume that the commercials don't
have rear airbags, so I wouldn't be putting my family back there. And you'd also wonder about side intrusion bars etc.

The only reason for "Commercials" in UK is to avoid VAT. This is also the situation in other European countries. AFAIR the last RRC off the line was a 2 door commercial for France.

In the UK you have to have non opening rear doors , no 2nd row windows, and a floor and barrier.

This situation does not exist in Australia where a tradie gets GST exemption on the basis of his BAS and TFN.

Regards PhilipA

[Rob66]

Fuel economy for the D240 is stated as 7.7l/100km (saw it on the board at Frankfurt) .. with 85l that should get you a range up around 1100km in ideal conditions .. real world might be different :)

[blackrangie]

Fuel economy for the D240 is stated as 7.7l/100km (saw it on the board at Frankfurt) .. with 85l that should get you a range up around 1100km in ideal conditions .. real world might be different :)Yeah im guessing 1000km + with 2 people and not packed to the rafters

[cripesamighty]

I was just talking to my mate who has a D4 SDV6 and mobile shed (ie massive caravan). He just came back from a trip up North of Perth and got caught in some really bad head winds. His fuel usage towing his mobile shed was reading over 24L/110km and he ended up staying in Menzies overnight (unplanned) because his fuel would have run out if he tried to get to Kalgoorlie. Real world conditions can have a tendency to bite you on the behind sometimes!

[blackrangie]

I was just talking to my mate who has a D4 SDV6 and mobile shed (ie massive caravan). He just came back from a trip up North of Perth and got caught in some really bad head winds. His fuel usage towing his mobile shed was reading over 24L/110km and he ended up staying in Menzies overnight (unplanned) because his fuel would have run out if he tried to get to Kalgoorlie. Real world conditions can have a tendency to bite you on the behind sometimes!I think everyone knows when you tow a shed your fuel use is going to be significantly higher.

Will be interesting to see were the defender sits towing with P400 and D240

D240 im guessing 15L/100 with a big van.

[cripesamighty]

I reckon 15L/100 would be about right in those conditions with the vehicle loaded and towing a small house! Apparently it was a very strong crosswind and the van and D4 were getting pushed around quite a bit. The first time he realised that the car was having a hard time of it was when he noticed the temp gauge going up a notch. A little while later the aircon dropped out and after switching it off the temp gauge dropped back to its normalised spot. He was struggling to keep to the limit so dropped back to 80kph, but he was still shooting past other grey nomads with their vans, some of which were really struggling in the conditions. He said it was the one time he really wanted some extra fuel in either jerry cans or bigger tank. When he left Menzies the next day there was very little wind and his fuel usage dropped back to normal.