Starting problem

[Lemo]

Hi all

Have a problem starting the D2 Td5
Intermittent stating issue, turn key to start and it’s hit and miss don’t know if it’s going to start.....
like starter contacts but it’s not, I’ve tested and found I’m not getting power to the solenoid wire C0179-1 at the fuse box starter relay or at the starter.

Things checked or renewed to date

1-New starter motor, didn’t help but solenoid contact were stuffed so need doing anyway..
2-Checked power and fuses all ok....
3-Tested ignition circuits from ignition switch to BCU via fuse box and I’m getting power to C0662-5 that disappears into the BCU and is suppose to earth via a relay contact within the BCU to allow the starter contact to operate but it’s not???

Here’s a wiring diagram that shows the starter circuit

https://www.aulro.com/mobile-gallery/f43da1ee8d1e4f4d26b1f8f6bf52f391.jpg

Anyone shed some light on this one??

Cheers Lemo

[Blknight.aus]

load chexck the starter and the bcu frame earth and connector earth

[Lemo]

load chexck the starter and the bcu frame earth and connector earth

Starter is ok cause when it eventually starts it’s same as always and fires up instantly...
Plus it’s not getting power to the solenoid wire...
I’ve checked the earth behind the BCU all good there...
Plugged and unplugged C0662 from the BCU and that appears to be ok as well? I’ll run the ohm meter on the earth wire to the body, just to be 100%
Would have thought if an earth problem I’d be having more faults occur?

Don’t happen to know the exact location of the earth in the diagram I posted before??
Or if the BCU has only one earth?

Cheers Lemo

[Lemo]

Found earth at connector C0660-11 for the BCU from header earth C0551-4 (K108) under carpet drivers foot well.

Just tested C0660-11 at BCU plug to earth point behind and good continuity, which rules out bad earth?

Lemo

[Lemo]

Now have the B/ (B with a cross through flashing)

I’ve had this a few time before over the last 6 months but never really presented a problem...

So is this a shagged BCU or fuse box and the IDM???

And if I get a new BCU what was the process with syncing speedo? Dose the BCU sync the Speedo or the swapped BCU will put a new value up whatever’s greater???
Will have a search as well and see what pops up rechristen as well

Cheers Lemo

[alien]

Automatic? May be in the inhibitor/xyz switch?

[Lemo]

Maybe? selects all gears and displays each in the IP display plus with the nanocom connected it switch’s each xyz on and off when moved etc.

[AK83]

....
like starter contacts but it’s not, I’ve tested and found I’m not getting power to the solenoid wire C0179-1 at the fuse box starter relay or at the starter.

.....

Not 100% clear on this part.

When you say not getting power C1079 at the fuse box or the starter solenoid .. do you mean no power at the relay pins on the fuse box, or no power out of the relay itself to C0571-2 pin at the connector to the solenoid wire?
They are different things.
If you have no power at the relay, maybe pull the fuse box apart a little, and check for corroded connections that could cause intermittent contacting there. Fuses etc ...

Another 'out there' possibility .. inertia switch intermittently contacting and not?

You said "like the starter contacts, but it's not ..." so by this do you mean you hear a click of some kind.
If so, at the starter solenoid?(unlikely considering there's no power on the wire).
If you do hear a click, is it from the relay maybe?

[Lemo]

Not 100% clear on this part.

When you say not getting power C1079 at the fuse box or the starter solenoid .. do you mean no power at the relay pins on the fuse box, or no power out of the relay itself to C0571-2 pin at the connector to the solenoid wire?
They are different things.
If you have no power at the relay, maybe pull the fuse box apart a little, and check for corroded connections that could cause intermittent contacting there. Fuses etc ...

Another 'out there' possibility .. inertia switch intermittently contacting and not?

You said "like the starter contacts, but it's not ..." so by this do you mean you hear a click of some kind.
If so, at the starter solenoid?(unlikely considering there's no power on the wire).
If you do hear a click, is it from the relay maybe?

For clarity I’m not getting any click, nada nothing... and with a test light at the stater motor relay output C0571-2 no power.
Or the BCU closing the return path to allow this.

So pretty sure it’s a BCU fault as it’s not closing the contact to allow power to the starter relay, all else tested ok as per diagram.
And as mentioned in another post I’ve had the B with the cross indicating in the cluster display, so the BCU isn’t happy!!

Picked up a second hand BCU and instrument Cluster from a D2a for a good price and will see how that goes. It’s got less Km then mine so should sync up ok as well.

Also I’ve never had water in the drivers side fuse area and wouldn’t think there’s corrosion but I’ve had it in the passenger side, will check the fuse box this afternoon anyway to rule that out.

Cheers Lemo

[Lemo]

Bit of an update
Pulled auto/xyz loom out and checked for chafing.
All good, re wrapped and added rubber insulation to the metal P clip.
Starts and runs ok for now, just waiting on another BCU and instrument cluster to arrive and should be changed over by the weekend so will see how that goes....

[alien]

Bit of an update
Pulled auto/xyz loom out and checked for chafing.
All good, re wrapped and added rubber insulation to the metal P clip.
Starts and runs ok for now, just waiting on another BCU and instrument cluster to arrive and should be changed over by the weekend so will see how that goes....
Did you look inside the switch for corroded contacts?

[Lemo]

Did you look inside the switch for corroded contacts?

Next on the list [emoji106]

[sierrafery]

As long as the BCU misses to complete the earth to the relay's coil the problem is on that path, if you have nanocom disable the passive immobiliser and see then cos if it's active and the passive remobilisation exciter coil has an intermittent interruption that's what happens cos the BCU cuts the earth of the starter relay for immobilisation, this can happen due to RF receiver or fob missbehaviour too... unless it's BCU fault as you suspected, if the symptom occurs again turn on manually the courtesy lamp and if it comes on the interior fusebox is ruled out but if not there's your problem

if that was ruled out and you replace the BCU all you have to do is to disable the odometer error warning and not touch any of the "sync IP to BCU" or BCU to IP commands then the mileage on the odometer will stay as it is

[Lemo]

As long as the BCU misses to complete the earth to the relay's coil the problem is on that path, if you have nanocom disable the passive immobiliser and see then cos if it's active and the passive remobilisation exciter coil has an intermittent interruption that's what happens cos the BCU cuts the earth of the starter relay for immobilisation, this can happen due to RF receiver or fob missbehaviour too... unless it's BCU fault as you suspected

if that was ruled out and you replace the BCU all you have to do is to disable the odometer error warning and not touch any of the "sync IP to BCU" or BCU to IP commands then the mileage on the odometer will stay as it is

Just going to replace the BCU this weekend and see how it goes, I’ve a lower mileage BCU and IP as replacements so will put the “new” BCU in and sync the existing IP mileage to the it.

Really think it’s a faulty BCU as it’s not just one fault but several, none start, B/ flashing and also M&S limp mode! All at different times over the last few days.

But again going to inspect the XYZ switch to rule that out before changing the BCU over as well.

Cheers Lemo

[sierrafery]

You should have mentioned the flashing crossed B from the beginning cos that is a clear sign of BCU or IDM failure, BCU in most cases, if the BCU doesnt cure it you'll need another IDM(interior fusebox)

[Lemo]

You should have mentioned the flashing crossed B from the beginning cos that is a clear sign of BCU or IDM failure, BCU in most cases, if the BCU doesnt cure it you'll need another IDM(interior fusebox)

About post #5 I mentioned it and yeah it’s what Im thinking as well.
Will pull the fuse box and give it a once over to see if there’s any signs of corrosion etc as well.

Funny thing is yesterday and today it’s been starting ok but a few times I needed to shift in and out of park to get it to start so maybe XYZ switch??

Haven’t had time today to get the other BCU in, renovation in full swing and shovelled a mountain of dirt today!!

https://www.aulro.com/mobile-gallery/29cacc7202d6fcc18d19e588636ba9c3.jpg

Cheers Lemo

[Lemo]

Changed the BCU over today,
A few scratching head moments!!
FYI - Existing BCU has the flashing M&S on the IP and can bus fault on auto ECU.

First off read and recorded new EKA code incase I stuffed up!! Synced keys
Changed vin number
Tried to sync IP cluster speedo and can’t? BCU is lower then IP odometer reading.
Installed new firmware on namocom (anyone know what firmware is the latest if read from nanocom info?) Just turned off the speedo warning

Synced/learned security from BCU to ECU and all appears ok.

No faults and driving as normal

Have to disable the lock doors after moving later!! A bit of a what the moment!! Wasn’t enabled on the old one.

Cheers Lemo

[sierrafery]

Tried to sync IP cluster speedo and can’t? BCU is lower then IP odometer reading.
Then you have to use the "sync BCU to odometer" command... though if this doesnt work for some reason don't worry, the BCU should self adjust to the IP's mileage after 16 ignition cycles.

[Lemo]

Another update

Had a few no start issues again [emoji53]

But a quick shift out of park or lock/unlock with the fob would allow starting.

On one non start the security led was solid red and after a lock/unlock led out and able to start??????

Have done the following since.

Removed and cleaned XYZ switch, had a discoloured contact

https://www.aulro.com/mobile-gallery/8170c6279704b6931949c88b0c4ee6ec.jpg

Pulled ECU cleaned red plug, tiniest amount of oil in the plug under the white section and on the terminals

Pulled internal fuse box, all had a light covering of corrosion, liberally cleaned with contact cleaner. Couldn’t get to the inner sections of the circuit boards to give them a good clean so will see how it goes??
Might see if I can get a new one to completely eliminate that as a fault?

Voltage reading via nanocom of power distribution of BCU has it at 11.5v but putting a volt meter on the battery reads 12.1v.....
Might be just a little flat from all the test starting I’ve been doing and it hasn’t really had a good run for a while, lots of short trips round town.
Will give the battery a good charge tomorrow, really disappointing if it’s a flat/stuffed battery it’s only just over 2ish years old!! Will get it load tested also.

Cheers Lemo

[Lemo]

Saga continues!

New battery, optima blue top D27M. Didn’t have time to faff around with the old one!!
Installed and get in to start, [emoji35] M&S lights on and now have XYZ switch fault.... cleared and comes back, cleared again ok??
Tested switch with nanocom all contact make as per rave table so what now???? New switch???

Cleared all these faults re xyz switch and go to start, vroom and away we go.... turn off and try again, now it won’t start[emoji35][emoji35]
And have the security led on solid red.... press the fob unlock and starts.
Disable passive coil and passive immobiliser and haven’t had a problem starting the last 5 or so times??

So what now, just leave it and be happy it’s running? Try get the coil passive immobiliser working again? Is there a way to test the passive coil?? Or the key not accepting the magnetic field and transmitting its code??

Or still fuse box not telling the passive coil to energise??

Perplexed
Lemo

[4bee]

About post #5 I mentioned it and yeah it’s what Im thinking as well.
Will pull the fuse box and give it a once over to see if there’s any signs of corrosion etc as well.

Funny thing is yesterday and today it’s been starting ok but a few times I needed to shift in and out of park to get it to start so maybe XYZ switch??

Haven’t had time today to get the other BCU in, renovation in full swing and shovelled a mountain of dirt today!!

https://www.aulro.com/mobile-gallery/29cacc7202d6fcc18d19e588636ba9c3.jpg

Cheers Lemo


Geeeez, I thought you were going to bury the car.[biggrin]