D3 Quick rundown for the uneducated?

[TOR]

Looking at a new family car, don't have a huge budget at the moment.I am considering a D3, whats the general consensus on engines etc? Will be used for running around and soft touring, to the snow etc. I have a 130 300tdi so don't need another project, just something reliable (enough) for the wife to mostly drive around.

My parents have a later model Disco 4, which I like and has been good to them. Unfortunately out of my budget though!

Any advice welcome!

[Fatso]

Would look at a Petrol as opposed to a Diesel , less complcation and problems .

[TOR]

Yeah right, downside just being the ecconomy? They seem to be alot cheaper too

[goofyr]

Looking at a new family car, don't have a huge budget at the moment.I am considering a D3, whats the general consensus on engines etc? Will be used for running around and soft touring, to the snow etc. I have a 130 300tdi so don't need another project, just something reliable (enough) for the wife to mostly drive around.

My parents have a later model Disco 4, which I like and has been good to them. Unfortunately out of my budget though!

Any advice welcome!

I love the V8, yeah economy is no where near like the diesel but it’s awesome, and when I was looking it was cheaper than the diesel.

[DazzaTD5]

Along comes me... the harbinger of death.

Last time this question was asked, it became a long winded thread and apparently I turned the potential Discovery 3 buyer off and they got a **** heap Pajero instead.

So here we go (again).
Great vehicle on road and off road, when they are actually running.
Other vehicles in the same year model are often tractor like in comparison, but again only when a Disco 3 is running.
I wouldnt recommend a 2.7lt TDV6 Discovery 3 unless its already had a engine replacement or you are going to allow that in your budget.
Other engines are more trouble free, as in they don't have total catastrophic failures.

If you do a search on AULRO, this topic has been well covered.

[gavinwibrow]

Along comes me... the harbinger of death.

Last time this question was asked, it became a long winded thread and apparently I turned the potential Discovery 3 buyer off and they got a **** heap Pajero instead.

So here we go (again).
Great vehicle on road and off road, when they are actually running.
Other vehicles in the same year model are often tractor like in comparison, but again only when a Disco 3 is running.
I wouldnt recommend a 2.7lt TDV6 Discovery 3 unless its already had a engine replacement or you are going to allow that in your budget.
Other engines are more trouble free, as in they don't have total catastrophic failures.

If you do a search on AULRO, this topic has been well covered.


Now you tell me!![bigwhistle]

[PerthDisco]

Every time I turn off the car I quietly say “not this time Dazza” [emoji106]

May the force be with you all.

[DazzaTD5]

Now you tell me!![bigwhistle]

Your Disco is a 4... we are all hoping the last of the 2.7lt in the Disco 4 is like the last of the 2.7lt in the Ford Territory and will be catastrophic failure free

[tonguewink]

[DazzaTD5]

Every time I turn off the car I quietly say “not this time Dazza” [emoji106]

May the force be with you all.

[bigrolf][bigrolf][bigrolf]

[Charliektm400exc]

Looking at a new family car, don't have a huge budget at the moment.I am considering a D3, whats the general consensus on engines etc? Will be used for running around and soft touring, to the snow etc. I have a 130 300tdi so don't need another project, just something reliable (enough) for the wife to mostly drive around.

My parents have a later model Disco 4, which I like and has been good to them. Unfortunately out of my budget though!

Any advice welcome!

Get a petrol engine. I know it uses lots more fuel then diesel, but it will take many years to make up the price difference and that’s without taking into account extra servicing costs for the diesel.

[justinc]

I tell people who ask why I didn't buy one... the whole truth and nothing but the truth...

Facts are they are a very safe, economical and comfortable family car and tourer, HOWEVER they are ALL maintenance hungry and if it isn't done, then be very afraid...

[DieselLSE]

Although you're looking at a, say, $20k to $30k or so purchase, you must understand that you are buying a $100k state of the art (then) vehicle with the premium servicing required for such a car.
As the car ages, the complexity of servicing does not diminish. Nor the costs. Also, things wear out and some things break. These are expensive things that were once state of the art and in all probably have since been significantly improved or rendered obsolete. And in all probability any associated software or firmware is no longer supported.
This doesn't mean a ten year old car can't be good value, just don't be fooled into thinking that you can buy a $100k car for $20k after a decade and only budget for ten year old car servicing.

[ytt105]

See the for sale section!

[DazzaTD5]

So as it happens I have a customer that is now looking at moving from his Defender to a Discovery 3 or 4 and it would seem the options are:

*buy a older D3, cheap expect to do numerous items. (not being considered by me).
*buy a last model D3 for really not that much less than a D4.
*(round 30K - $35K) buy a D4 with low km's and no extras (bullbar etc) and get these items fitted.
*(round 30K - $35K) buy a D4 with higher km's with all the extras.

The last two are in budget.

2011 Land Rover Discovery 4 2.7 TDV6 Automatic SUV | Cars, Vans & Utes | Gumtree Australia South Perth Area - South Perth | 1227628687 (https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/south-perth/cars-vans-utes/2011-land-rover-discovery-4-2-7-tdv6-automatic-suv/1227628687)

[Disco-tastic]

I have a 2008 4.0 petrol V6 D3 SE and over the past 4yrs of ownership i have done the following maintenance:

- front LCA rear bushes: total $265 as I did the labour (can cost around $1k otherwise)
- new fuel pump: $450 and i did the labour
- new rear wheel bearings: $500 a side ($1000 total)
- new front wheel bearings: $465 for both but i did the labour (they're not hard)
- fixed a transfer case leak and had a rack end replaced: $1650
- new front air struts: $900 for non-genuine. I think I will get genuine next time as I'm not a huge fan of these
-new alternator: $620 for a Denso OEM and i will fit it myself.

Total is $5350 or thereabouts, not including regular servicing (which is $350-450 per service)

Damn. I wish I didnt add that up :bawl:

I also have a busted drivers door seal and a damaged passenger one thats not so bad (they are expensive) and the centre console vinyl is badly cracked and I need to repair that. The air compressor probably needs a rebuild (not sure whether to rebuild or replace yet).

That said, the car is soooooo practical, it fits me and all 6 of my real adult friends :) and my family of 4 can easily fit all our camping gear. Its also great off road and much better on road than similar aged 4wd wagons. I also sleep better knowing that my family is much safer in this than our old 94 camry (which was muuuuuch cheaper to run)

[PerthDisco]

I have a 2008 4.0 petrol V6 D3 SE and over the past 4yrs of ownership i have done the following maintenance:

- front LCA rear bushes: total $265 as I did the labour (can cost around $1k otherwise)
- new fuel pump: $450 and i did the labour
- new rear wheel bearings: $500 a side ($1000 total)
- new front wheel bearings: $465 for both but i did the labour (they're not hard)
- fixed a transfer case leak and had a rack end replaced: $1650
- new front air struts: $900 for non-genuine. I think I will get genuine next time as I'm not a huge fan of these
-new alternator: $620 for a Denso OEM and i will fit it myself.

Total is $5350 or thereabouts, not including regular servicing (which is $350-450 per service)

Damn. I wish I didnt add that up :bawl:

I also have a busted drivers door seal and a damaged passenger one thats not so bad (they are expensive) and the centre console vinyl is badly cracked and I need to repair that. The air compressor probably needs a rebuild (not sure whether to rebuild or replace yet).

That said, the car is soooooo practical, it fits me and all 6 of my real adult friends :) and my family of 4 can easily fit all our camping gear. Its also great off road and much better on road than similar aged 4wd wagons. I also sleep better knowing that my family is much safer in this than our old 94 camry (which was muuuuuch cheaper to run)

That’s it Pay Now as in the purchase price reflects the correct maintenance and upkeep the owner spent or Pay Later when you are forced to do it. The difference in price should reflect this.

It’s why Body Corporates collect a fund for building maintenance needed down the track (in theory).

So if you have $30k to spend only buy at $30k if everything is done 100% and more. If not spend only $25k or less and consider the $5k as contingency or a essential work to do fund not a new set of mag wheels or spotties fund.

Keeping a boat on the water or a plane in the air takes big injections of cash along the way. Car no different really just softer laws on what’s acceptable.

[loanrangie]

Dont listen to the dooms dayers, just be aware of the possible issues. For your use i think a petrol V6 would suit you, not quite the economy but better suited to local runs.

[BradC]

Dont listen to the dooms dayers, just be aware of the possible issues. For your use i think a petrol V6 would suit you, not quite the economy but better suited to local runs.

When we researched before we bought the Antichrist it look for all intents and purposes that the V6 & V8 petrol didn't differ significantly in consumption. If I knew then what I know now I'd have bought a V8 petrol.

[3Disco]

Have just been through this myself. Previously owned a series 1 disco with 420000 km on clock, Defender with 250000 km on clock when I got rid of them. Many years passed where there wasn’t a need for a 4wd, until the family out grew a sedan.
Disco 3 made perfect sense and the choice was made to rule out the diesel without even test driving one. After countless hours of research I decided even the fuel economy isn’t the best petrol was the safer route for us. Wanted the V8 but unfortunately none for sale in qld at the time and Victoria where the majority of the very limited few that are for for sale was simply too far to travel. Had initially ruled out the v6 petrol but stumbled across a 2009 that had full service history with near all the known issues that prop up in the disco 3 replaced, plus gearbox, transfer and diff oil changes & Upgraded AMK compressor. Imaculate condition as well.
You often hear the v6 petrol is under powered but we find it perfectly fine.
Fuel economy for city driving has been around 400 - 450 km between fill ups. Haven’t done a long highway trip but a little stint up the motorway saw the dash showing 8.2 km/L. So probably get about 500 - 550km on a longer trip.

[Disco-tastic]

Regarding V8 vs V6 patrols, note that the V8s were only MY05 and MY06 (and maybe early MY07?). The 05s had single high speed canbus which is what caused the cascading faults from a faulty brake globe. I can't remember exactly when but a new 2 speed canbus system was used in later models (I think MY07 onwards) which removed a lot of the issues. Other little things like auto down and up front windows were added as the years progressed too.

This is all recalled from my research 4 years ago so I'd recommend you go and check when the change was!

I do wish i had the V8 sometimes. The noise and extra power and torque with no hit to fuel economy is tempting.

[NavyDiver]

Hi Tor with 2 D3s TDV6 both over 300,000km on the clocks over the last decade I think the issues falls down to your need. Driving distances enough of the time TDV6 diesel, Short stuff do not get the diesel! My 2005 died from hail and a rotten insurance company not engine or other issues. As far as I know is still driving around now as the gent who bought it felt it was the nicest car he had ever driven [biggrin] My 2009 is a baby.

Never having a V8 myself not sure of issues apart from reports. Note we always seem to share bad stories not the good outcomes of course. My replacement budget was closer to 20k. Yours gives you a lot more options I assume.

The comment on maintenance is right on the money. The maintenance record should be your first item to review before considering purchasing a D3. Interestingly the canabus issue could be your best mate. For some reason some people have not found out why numerous inconsistent errors and faults occur and sell cheaply. A few years ago I listened to a guy who brought traded in D3 happily for peanuts due to problem which the prior owner did not find out how to fix.

[Markus1]

The V6 petrol is a very reliable ford motor. Its torque is not great down low making it no good for towing but it will rev decently so you can keep up with traffic ok. You will get 20+lph in city traffic and 12s on the open hwy thanks to the advanced transmission. Overall reliability compared to other cars Ive owned is poor.

[goofyr]

I had a 30k budget at a stretch but that would leave me with no money for mods or major maintenance. I found a 2006 V8 HSE, and negotiated it down to under 19K 2 years ago. Stuff I had to do:
- LCAs
- Injector 1 had to be replaced
- radiator replaced due to corrosion at hose connection
- rear propshaft
- front driver’s door locking actuator

Mods:
- long range fuel tank
- rear wheel carrier
- auto trans pan

I now have a highway range of about 900-1000K. It’s an awesome touring vehicle. I’ve only done mild off-roading as it still has highway terrains.

[coolum]

I am extremely happy with the V8 ... looked at costs of maintenance for the Diesel at the time and after owning other diesel turbos, felt the extra costs for timing belt, Turbo and intercoolers, high compression donks and fuel pumps etc / over the cost of fuel / frequency of fill-ups at the bowser were not balanced, or should I say seemed to be in favour of the V8.

The V8 over time seems (throughout the forum posts) to be very reliable and with over 320000km and still towing (6M sharkcat on occasion) strong it seems to be the right choice for me.

Friends (who have much newer cars) often comment of how well, smooth and quiet the car runs and can't believe its a 2005 year.

LR did a great job with this model and with llams and other offroad accessories I believe it will be looked at as a classic and utilitarian vehicle with unique balance of comfort and robustness throughout the future.

I certainly do not regret in any way choosing the V8.

[twr7cx]

I tell people who ask why I didn't buy one... the whole truth and nothing but the truth...

Facts are they are a very safe, economical and comfortable family car and tourer, HOWEVER they are ALL maintenance hungry and if it isn't done, then be very afraid...

Are your L322 Range Rovers less maintenance hungry?

[justinc]

Are your L322 Range Rovers less maintenance hungry?

Most certainly. 😊

[Stuart02]

I notice looking at the Carsales specs that the V6 petrol has a payload of 825 kg whereas the V8 is only 526kg?! That's staggering if it's true?

[cripesamighty]

The V8’s pretty much came fully optioned and were mostly 7 seaters. You might find the V6 is a 5 seater with a lot less fruit.

[PerthDisco]

I notice looking at the Carsales specs that the V6 petrol has a payload of 825 kg whereas the V8 is only 526kg?! That's staggering if it's true?

Same for top spec 200 series. All that fruit - centre console fridge - rear AC - lectric everything- comes out of your payload pocket.

[PhilipA]

Just be aware that the V6 has a diabolically complicated chain system for the camshafts with AFAIR 2 chains at the back of the engine and three at the front so engine out to replace.
A special tool jig is needed to correctly time all the cams. I wonder if there are many places in Australia with the equipment seeing the Ford Explorer was the last Ford to use the motor .

So If buying one look for a low mileage one that has been serviced more often than the official book.

On the plus side the engines are really cheap in the USA seeing the explorer was the most popular SUV there for many years.

.

[rar110]

Something like this might be worth a look to see if this sort of car might suit. It looks a little neglected.

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/2006-Land-Rover-Range-Rover-Vogue-Super-Charged-Auto-4x4-MY06/SSE-AD-6000014

This one looks a lot nicer condition.

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/2006-Land-Rover-Range-Rover-Vogue-Super-Charged-Auto-4x4-MY06/SSE-AD-6120714

Don’t be worried about the light leather interior with kids. It just needs a wipe over, and is pretty robust.

These are often regarded as the most reliable petrol motor fitted to a Land Rover.

If looking at the L322 with a Jag v8, don’t be confused with the cheaper L322s with the BMW 4.4 which looks like this:

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191015/ce3a9b28af373d33ff05e8f2977a07ba.jpg

Then there is the L322 3.6 tdv8. I went from a 110 to the L322 3.6.

[Stuart02]

Hi,

I remember the D4 rear air controls being overhead in the second row. Is it the same for the D3 or are they up front? I think I have a seller who's confused about rear air v. just rear air vents...? I spose Topix would be the final word if I can get the VIN from him?

Also I vaguely remember ARB offering a rear diff locker for the D3 but not the D4?

Are the self-destructing 2.7 TDV6s all basically due to the oil-pump/timing belt/crank bearing failures? Is there an engine number/series that denotes the 2009-onward upgraded components?

Other important D4 mechanical upgrades inc alternator/starter wiring... canbus... steering ball joints...

Is it my imagination or do the D3s have a firmer/less supple ride than the D4s? If so what's that about?

It seems to me too from driving a D3 recently that compared to the D4 there's much less engine braking in Sport mode? (and no paddles!! :BigCry::BigCry::BigCry:)

Cheers!

[Discodicky]

Along comes me... the harbinger of death.

Last time this question was asked, it became a long winded thread and apparently I turned the potential Discovery 3 buyer off and they got a **** heap Pajero instead.

So here we go (again).
Great vehicle on road and off road, when they are actually running.
Other vehicles in the same year model are often tractor like in comparison, but again only when a Disco 3 is running.
I wouldnt recommend a 2.7lt TDV6 Discovery 3 unless its already had a engine replacement or you are going to allow that in your budget.
Other engines are more trouble free, as in they don't have total catastrophic failures.

If you do a search on AULRO, this topic has been well covered.

I realise that i get confused very easily as I am a bit thick, but you astound me by inferring the 2.7 engine is a disaster in waiting... I was under the impression that it is the 3.0 litre that throws conrod bearings/breaks crankshafts without warning and has inlet manifold splitting problems! Please explain what is the problem with the 2.7 engine? My son has a 2008 2.7 (176,000klms) and I have a 2013 3.0 (122,00 klms) Perhaps we both need to slash our wrists now?

[Pippin]

I realise that i get confused very easily as I am a bit thick, but you astound me by inferring the 2.7 engine is a disaster in waiting... I was under the impression that it is the 3.0 litre that throws conrod bearings/breaks crankshafts without warning and has inlet manifold splitting problems! Please explain what is the problem with the 2.7 engine? My son has a 2008 2.7 (176,000klms) and I have a 2013 3.0 (122,00 klms) Perhaps we both need to slash our wrists now?Generally if you run a business fixing Discovery's you only see those that are broken and don't see the bigger picture.

[ozscott]

I realise that i get confused very easily as I am a bit thick, but you astound me by inferring the 2.7 engine is a disaster in waiting... I was under the impression that it is the 3.0 litre that throws conrod bearings/breaks crankshafts without warning and has inlet manifold splitting problems! Please explain what is the problem with the 2.7 engine? My son has a 2008 2.7 (176,000klms) and I have a 2013 3.0 (122,00 klms) Perhaps we both need to slash our wrists now?One of many threads...TDV6 crank and crank bearing failures (https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/topic?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eaulro%2Ecom%2Fafvb%2 Fshowthread%2Ephp%3Ft%3D209763&share_tid=209763&share_fid=669&share_type=t&link_source=app)

There were many 2.7 failures. Above is one of many threads. 176k is a pup still BTW.

Cheers

[Pippin]

One of many threads...TDV6 crank and crank bearing failures (https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/topic?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eaulro%2Ecom%2Fafvb%2 Fshowthread%2Ephp%3Ft%3D209763&share_tid=209763&share_fid=669&share_type=t&link_source=app)

There were many 2.7 failures. Above is one of many threads. 176k is a pup still BTW.

Cheers"Many failures" this is not a meaningful statistic. This has been discussed before where there was no conclusive number of failures per 10,000 or whatever reached. So without real data this discussion is fairly meaningless. Nick

[ozscott]

It's meaningful for me. There have been enough threads over the last decade about catastrophic d3 and d4 2.7 and 3.0 failures to put me off buying second hand. The D2 had failures galore with the V8 and Td5 also but the difference there was the ability to get cheap replacements. The difference with the D4 and D3 when they go bang is that it is a very expensive exercise.

I could have gone D4 for a recent purchase but just wasn't up for a game of roulette. Went away from LR for my daily driver for reliability and economics. Will retain a D2 as an indulgence of the brand.

Cheers

[DiscoDB]

A South African LR spokesperson (if you can believe this) quoted the failure rate for D3/4’s engines over 10 years from 2005-2014 was 1.3% in response to being challenged over the TdV6 engine failures.

This matched data published by Warranty Direct in 2013 on all Land Rover engine failure data based 50000 policies they had.

The Warranty Direct study had Audi engine failure rates at 1 in 27, BMW 1 in 45, Land Rover 1 in 72, and Toyota at 1 in 171.

The real issue I believe is when they do fail the cost to replace is very high.

[DazzaTD5]

I realise that i get confused very easily as I am a bit thick, but you astound me by inferring the 2.7 engine is a disaster in waiting... I was under the impression that it is the 3.0 litre that throws conrod bearings/breaks crankshafts without warning and has inlet manifold splitting problems! Please explain what is the problem with the 2.7 engine? My son has a 2008 2.7 (176,000klms) and I have a 2013 3.0 (122,00 klms) Perhaps we both need to slash our wrists now?

*I'm astounded that Ford can make an engine so ****.
*I'm astounded people get ****ty when i dare mention this.
*Clearly your impression is incorrect.
*Explain what? Ford and Jaguar Land Rover have given no definitive explanation on engine failures.
*Slash your wrists? really, whatever takes your fancy.

[ozscott]

A South African LR spokesperson (if you can believe this) quoted the failure rate for D3/4’s engines over 10 years from 2005-2014 was 1.3% in response to being challenged over the TdV6 engine failures.

This matched data published by Warranty Direct in 2013 on all Land Rover engine failure data based 50000 policies they had.

The Warranty Direct study had Audi engine failure rates at 1 in 27, BMW 1 in 45, Land Rover 1 in 72, and Toyota at 1 in 171.

The real issue I believe is when they do fail the cost to replace is very high.If you had a 1 in 72 chance of winning lotto can you imagine how many ticket sales there would be...conversely I don't like playing Russian Roulette with a total engine failure where the repair bill is what $25,000?

Cheers

[DazzaTD5]

And a general comment..

*If I have done say I dunno over 20 engine replacements, I assume so has other bigger and better indy Land Rover repairers, then well **** thats not looking to great to me.
*Regardless of "oh less than 1% failure bluh bluh", big comfort if you happen to have a Disco 3 with a failed engine and are now faced with a hefty repair bill.
*I've never done so many engine changes through failures on any one model. (I know a VW mechanic, he says the exact same thing about diesel VW engines).
*AND yes there is no doubt plenty / some / whatever that do high km's and dare I say trouble free.

*Meanwhile my days are being filled with Disco 3 and Disco 4 repairs.
*Yet another Disco 4 with a cracked inlet manifold, much to the dismay of the owner.
*There was a point where I thought perhaps the D4 was a much improved vehicle over a D3, this is quickly disappearing.

[Pippin]

If you had a 1 in 72 chance of winning lotto can you imagine how many ticket sales there would be...conversely I don't like playing Russian Roulette with a total engine failure where the repair bill is what $25,000?

CheersSo why are you on this particular forum if you don't own one?

[ozscott]

I own 2 Land Rover Discoveries...

Even if I didn't do you really want to hear that it's all OK? Do you really not want to hear that there are issues to be aware of?

Cheers

[DazzaTD5]

If you had a 1 in 72 chance of winning lotto can you imagine how many ticket sales there would be...conversely I don't like playing Russian Roulette with a total engine failure where the repair bill is what $25,000?

Cheers

Disco 3, used low mileage engines fitted expect round $10,000

[PerthDisco]

And a general comment..

*If I have done say I dunno over 20 engine replacements, I assume so has other bigger and better indy Land Rover repairers, then well **** thats not looking to great to me.
*Regardless of "oh less than 1% failure bluh bluh", big comfort if you happen to have a Disco 3 with a failed engine and are now faced with a hefty repair bill.
*I've never done so many engine changes through failures on any one model. (I know a VW mechanic, he says the exact same thing about diesel VW engines).
*AND yes there is no doubt plenty / some / whatever that do high km's and dare I say trouble free.

*Meanwhile my days are being filled with Disco 3 and Disco 4 repairs.
*Yet another Disco 4 with a cracked inlet manifold, much to the dismay of the owner.
*There was a point where I thought perhaps the D4 was a much improved vehicle over a D3, this is quickly disappearing.

Fortunately LR has published a helpful guide book now on these issues. Available online and in all good bookstores. Perfect Xmas gift.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191022/458c9b58d4a64227176b12d00945e746.jpg

[justinc]

I have only had broken oil pumps and ruined engines through belt breakages, no crank breakage yet. Got 2 here at the moment, and 1 towed back to the owner as he STILL owes money on it, and it is economically unviable to repair for him.

It is one thing above all, a heartbreak for the owner.

J

[DazzaTD5]

I have only had broken oil pumps and ruined engines through belt breakages, no crank breakage yet. Got 2 here at the moment, and 1 towed back to the owner as he STILL owes money on it, and it is economically unviable to repair for him.

It is one thing above all, a heartbreak for the owner.

J

Yes I've had a few of them, "still owe money on it".

Thats actually the worse part, owners doing the right thing, servicing, looking after it, or just bought it. Then failure, I try to forget the amount of devastated owners that suddenly have no vehicle for their daily drive, transporting family etc.

[ozscott]

Disco 3, used low mileage engines fitted expect round $10,000Thanks mate. That is a very big reduction from some years ago and what some have paid so good to know. Still a lot of coin relative to the vehicle value and you are singing up for another potential heartache. Anyway plenty of threads about this and plenty of issues so anyone who does their research and still purchases at least knows what they are dealing with. And that's the main thing. Cheers

[gavinwibrow]

Thanks mate. That is a very big reduction from some years ago and what some have paid so good to know. Still a lot of coin relative to the vehicle value and you are singing up for another potential heartache. Anyway plenty of threads about this and plenty of issues so anyone who does their research and still purchases at least knows what they are dealing with. And that's the main thing. Cheers

And Dazza does it very well - no shortcuts here!

[rar110]

There’s plenty of happy owners out there, including my sister. They are a nice motor. But the failures do push me away from this option.

The worst I have seen is Trebor on here who suffer catastrophic engine failure on his 2015 D4 at 26,000km . Terrible, motor replaced by JLR thankfully.

Here’s Trebor’s post.

“The problems with Land Rover's 2.7 and 3.0 litre diesel engines continue. I have a (March plated) 2015 3.0 litre Discovery with 25,000kms on the clock and the crankshaft has come away from its housing. Problem began with a small vibration at 110kph followed by a rapid loss of power and complete system shut down. Fortunately, I was able to pull over quickly but the engine had ceased turning before I came to a complete stop. The event from beginning to end lasted approximately 15 seconds. This occurred near Yulara, 1700kms from home at the beginning of a trip! It is worth noting that the vehicle had already had two oil engine oil changes beforehand: one at 12K and the second at 23K.
This is my second Discovery having bought a 2012 TDV6 2.7 in June of that year It became apparent after 30 months that for the previous year the vehicle had a significant quantity of diesel in the engine, despite two oil changes in that time. Injection seals were deemed the problem and replaced under warranty by LRA at 60,000kms.
I now sadly have lost faith in the reliability of these vehicles and will be changing my allegiance. A sad time. :wacko:”

[rar110]

Interesting, but I don’t recall hearing about a crank failure in the 3.0 tdv6 fitted to a L494, but have read about it happening to a L405.

[3Disco]

By the sounds of it I should take comfort in owning the 4.0L petrol D3, especially when looking down at the average fuel useage even if it isn’t 100% accurate. Countless posts of diesel d3 owners saying the petrol 4.0L are a slow gutless engine that drinks the fuel no matter the situation.
10 km/L shown in pic which then went to 10.5km/L
If the petrol 4.0L Engine in the D3 is so **** where are all the reported failures?

[DazzaTD5]

By the sounds of it I should take comfort in owning the 4.0L petrol D3, especially when looking down at the average fuel useage even if it isn’t 100% accurate. Countless posts of diesel d3 owners saying the petrol 4.0L are a slow gutless engine that drinks the fuel no matter the situation.
10 km/L shown in pic which then went to 10.5km/L
If the petrol 4.0L Engine in the D3 is so **** where are all the reported failures?

The Petrol 4.0 like all the other engines are very reliable. The 4.0 petrol will often return better fuel consumption around town.

[ozscott]

My mates d3 4.0 petrol would get half a litre to a litre per 100k better than my 4.6 V8 D2 on the highway and about 4 litres per 100k worse than mine around town. We had many runs together under different conditions and would compare at the bowsers. Imcluding up to Cape York and the OTT. His had done under 100,000 and ran like a gem too. He didn't have bar work etc unlike mine that had plenty of added weight and big Duratracs. His was auto and mine manual - the manuals in the D2 V8's do a fair bit better economy wise than the autos. The 4.0 is a sweet reliable engine and I would own it any day over the 2.7 in a D3. The economy gauge on the D3 in his was optimistic too compared to actual mileage from the odometer and fuel used.

Cheers

[justinc]

I am of the opinion that for general use, light towing and touring the V8 D3 or D4 is the best pick. I say light towing ONLY for those requiring decent fuel range , as in all other respects they are a better pick than the diesel. Far less maintenance costs and almost unheard of failures.
I seriously considered a 5.0V8 L322 and even a 4.2 Supercharged , however the fuel consumption while towing our block of flats would be prohibitive for extended travel.
Thankfully, the 4.4TDV8 has so far proven to be a reliable and economical engine.
I would be happy to consider other makes of vehicle to achieve a reliable tow vehicle, if oneday there were no LR products to fit the bill..😲

[ozscott]

Justin the V8's in the D3 are so nice but rare in the second hand market unfortunately. Not many sold and many that had them hung into them.

Cheers

[3Disco]

Justin the V8's in the D3 are so nice but rare in the second hand market unfortunately. Not many sold and many that had them hung into them.

Cheers

That was our issue trying to find an 8cyl D3 in qld. Across all of Aus there seems to be less then 10 for sale atm. A shame as it would have been a great engine.

[INter674]

D4 SC s are even more rare...I'm guessing less than 20 in Aus maybe?. Shame given they are such a sweet reliable powerfull engine and quite good on fuel too. Yes the diesel is better for economy and range but I'd trade a few bucks per 100 clicks to avoid major service and repair costs.

Over the last month with some heavy towing and occasionally heaps of right boot 😎 I'm averaging 14.2 l/100ks. We live in a hilly area so we're never going to get 12s.

My d2 new engine averaged @12s for the same monthly use.

But there's no comparison re comfort, safety features and sheer urge.....

[AK83]

Curious if anyone knows.
The 2.7 was also used in Jag and Peugeot but in twin turbo form.
Do they also suffer the same crank issues?

[rar110]

According to Wiki there was a twin turbo version.


Ford AJD-V6/PSA DT17 - Wikipedia (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_AJD-V6/PSA_DT17)

[Pippin]

In South Africa it was found that there was 1.3% over 10years of V6 engine failures! The link makes interesting reading. Nick Unease grows over Land Rover engine | IOL (http://www.iol.co.za/motoring/cars/land-rover/unease-grows-over-land-rover-engine-1925479)

[ozscott]

Yep I had read that a couple of years ago. For me the risk of a little over 1 in 100 at full failure combined with some other maintenance issues was enough to put me off, but for someone who has one with plenty of miles and an apparently solid build then it's a great vehicle and worth holding into. Especially if you have undertaken a good service regime. For me if the nominal service is say 15,000klms then I do an intermediate oil and filter change at half that distance. Diesels love good fresh oil.

Cheers

[AK83]

As a potential D3 buyer some time in the near future .. if I do buy a 2.7 with the strict plan to do the bearings as a priority .. no matter if they're good or going bad .. would such a plan offer up any surety that the bearings/crank won't fail?
Or is it an inherent property of the design of the block or crank or something?

[justinc]

Land Rover Discovery 3 2.7L 90mm stroke TDV6 billet 4340 crankshaft - Racing connecting rods, Engine components manufactuer in china, Hurricane connecting rod for sale, Race connecting rods,Forged 4340 steel performance rods (https://www.hurricanerods.com/products/Land-Rover-Discovery-3-2.7L-90mm-stroke-TDV6-billet-4340-crankshaft.html)

[Stuart02]

Land Rover Discovery 3 2.7L 90mm stroke TDV6 billet 4340 crankshaft - Racing connecting rods, Engine components manufactuer in china, Hurricane connecting rod for sale, Race connecting rods,Forged 4340 steel performance rods (https://www.hurricanerods.com/products/Land-Rover-Discovery-3-2.7L-90mm-stroke-TDV6-billet-4340-crankshaft.html)I don't know the first thing about crankshafts - is that an upgrade?

[DiscoDB]

As a potential D3 buyer some time in the near future .. if I do buy a 2.7 with the strict plan to do the bearings as a priority .. no matter if they're good or going bad .. would such a plan offer up any surety that the bearings/crank won't fail?
Or is it an inherent property of the design of the block or crank or something?

Seems the jury is out on if it was a bad batch of crank shafts, a bad batch of bearing shells, an assembly problem, or wrong spec oil being used during servicing.

Does seem JLR ended up with the bad batch though with some failures reported with the Jags but most with the Disco.

One view is if it hasn’t failed in the first 7-10 years then you may have avoided the bad batch.

Fingers crossed - although if mine went I would probably part the car and upgrade to a D4.

[DiscoJeffster]

Nah DiscoDB. It’s an engine design flaw of some sort. It has to be. These engines have constantly failed right through to the last of the D4 and even failures in D5 have been reported. No one (aside from LR) knows for sure of the cause and what conspires for it to fail. Servicing isn’t a major factor as factory serviced ones fail as well as highly serviced ones. Low mileage engines fail, high mileage fail. Some have said that maybe the gearbox causes crankshaft resonance of it’s not healthy? Who knows. It’s a lottery and I don’t think there’s anything anyone can do to reduce the odds in their favour. Unfortunately you have more chance of the engine dying than winning first division.

[PerthDisco]

Spoke with a guy I know today who had an early RRS with 2.7D motor. Had 400,000+ kms on it with pretty basic maintenance and no preventative care and no great mechanical knowledge or LR brand interest. Told me after noticing a slow coolant leak he did nothing until a catastrophic coolant leak failure led to loss of the engine. No overheat warning.

He told me he was told by mechanic was caused by a failed block core plug letting go.

I’ve not heard this before so I didn’t challenge him on other reasons i.e. plastic coolant parts.

Anyone heard of this as he suggested they can be easily replaced?

Moral of story is always jump on any slow coolant leak.

Car was otherwise fine but with some transmission shudder and he had not in his long ownership (majority of kms) done the timing belts!

[justinc]

Taking into account that the only one I have seen in the flesh had broken obliquely from one journal radius to the counterweight, it may be a machining QC issue . Thinking back to seeing a few V6 Detroit diesels with broken cranks due to the wrong radius machined at the journal, causing a stress raiser, every one had propagated from the same area...

[DiscoDB]

Taking into account that the only one I have seen in the flesh had broken obliquely from one journal radius to the counterweight, it may be a machining QC issue .

Was that between #2 big end and #2 main?

[gavinwibrow]

Spoke with a guy I know today who had an early RRS with 2.7D motor. Had 400,000+ kms on it with pretty basic maintenance and no preventative care and no great mechanical knowledge or LR brand interest. Told me after noticing a slow coolant leak he did nothing until a catastrophic coolant leak failure led to loss of the engine. No overheat warning.

He told me he was told by mechanic was caused by a failed block core plug letting go.

I’ve not heard this before so I didn’t challenge him on other reasons i.e. plastic coolant parts.

Anyone heard of this as he suggested they can be easily replaced?

Moral of story is always jump on any slow coolant leak.

Car was otherwise fine but with some transmission shudder and he had not in his long ownership (majority of kms) done the timing belts!



Discorevy near Albany has recently acquired a sister car with similar mileage - the difference being he is a LR mechanic extraordinaire

[PerthDisco]

Discorevy near Albany has recently acquired a sister car with similar mileage - the difference being he is a LR mechanic extraordinaire

Yep he told me he sold to the local mechanic who was prepared to take on as a project and had it up and running and looking great.

Car had done many Esperance runs to clock up kms.

Keen to verify the core plug story.

And also to show that these engines do big kms with all the normal poor maintenance methods of bringing them to an end.

[AK83]

.... These engines have constantly failed right through to the last of the D4 and even failures in D5 have been reported. .....

I thought that the D5 didn't use the Ford/Peugeot V6 diesel?(know nothing about them actually).

I visit the odd Peugeot forum for some info re my dads 307(Hdi) .. not a lot, maybe 2 or three times in a year.
But on perusal .. can't ever remember seeing V6 crank blown threads or titles.
Not saying that they do or don't happen, and haven't really looked out for them, but they don't stand out in any way to be so obvious.

And if there was a design or machining issue, how to they seem to manage to make sure that all those erroneously manufactured blocks or cranks or bearing happen to go to LR, and not directly to Ford for the territory motors?

[loanrangie]

I thought that the D5 didn't use the Ford/Peugeot V6 diesel?(know nothing about them actually).

I visit the odd Peugeot forum for some info re my dads 307(Hdi) .. not a lot, maybe 2 or three times in a year.
But on perusal .. can't ever remember seeing V6 crank blown threads or titles.
Not saying that they do or don't happen, and haven't really looked out for them, but they don't stand out in any way to be so obvious.

And if there was a design or machining issue, how to they seem to manage to make sure that all those erroneously manufactured blocks or cranks or bearing happen to go to LR, and not directly to Ford for the territory motors?Ford AU got the 2.7 about 3 years after LR stopped using it, QC must have improved a lot in that time.

[loanrangie]

I don't know the first thing about crankshafts - is that an upgrade?4340 is chromoly plus being a billet it is forged rather than cast so much stronger.

[DiscoDB]

And if there was a design or machining issue, how to they seem to manage to make sure that all those erroneously manufactured blocks or cranks or bearing happen to go to LR, and not directly to Ford for the territory motors?

One theory on the 4x4community.co.za forum is that there was something about the Disco set up that pushed the design to its limit under certain operating conditions (speed, temp, vibrations) and hence it was more likely to see the failures. The belief then is this design weakness carried over to the 3L as well but may have been less likely to be induced (different set up/better low down torque) but time will tell if this is true.

There was one poster researching this topic and collecting failed cranks from both 2.7 and 3L and said every one failed it the same spot and you could take any two different halves from different cranks and they always lined up.

People discussed keeping revs below 3000rpm, remapping to give better low down torque (so you don’t need to rev it hard), and even changing the harmonic balancer every 150,000 kms as a preventative action.

All adds up to make the TdV6 D3 an expensive maintenance vehicle - lower control arms, auto flush, oil pump tensioner upgrade, egr fouling up, air compressor rebuilds, intermittent electrical faults, and then add the risk of crank failure.

I am sure it is also well covered elsewhere here, but good to continue to bring up - especially for the uneducated (the OP must be turned off getting a TDV6 D3 by now).

[Pippin]

"(the OP must be turned off getting a TDV6 D3 by now)." These are vehicles that we obviously love, surely we should be a bit more glass half full when we answer his questions! I have never seen one broken down at the side of the road.

[cripesamighty]

And a bit of hope too. My 2006MY D3 SE TDV6 hit 530,000km earlier this year. As far as I am aware it is the original engine. It was used by a tourism operator doing outback tours before I got it so did lots of country runs. It’s not all bad news....

[discorevy]

Spoke with a guy I know today who had an early RRS with 2.7D motor. Had 400,000+ kms on it with pretty basic maintenance and no preventative care and no great mechanical knowledge or LR brand interest. Told me after noticing a slow coolant leak he did nothing until a catastrophic coolant leak failure led to loss of the engine. No overheat warning.

He told me he was told by mechanic was caused by a failed block core plug letting go.

I’ve not heard this before so I didn’t challenge him on other reasons i.e. plastic coolant parts.

Anyone heard of this as he suggested they can be easily replaced?

Moral of story is always jump on any slow coolant leak.

Car was otherwise fine but with some transmission shudder and he had not in his long ownership (majority of kms) done the timing belts!


Discorevy near Albany has recently acquired a sister car with similar mileage - the difference being he is a LR mechanic extraordinaire


Yep he told me he sold to the local mechanic who was prepared to take on as a project and had it up and running and looking great.

Car had done many Esperance runs to clock up kms.

Keen to verify the core plug story.

And also to show that these engines do big kms with all the normal poor maintenance methods of bringing them to an end.

Too many similarities to be a different vehicle, so a few facts
Had 347764 kilometres when It came in being towed by a vz commodore:eek2:
When he had called a couple of days before , when it had happened I was told the engine oil light wouldn't go off , turns out it got so hot that it had dumped a few litres of oil out the exhaust . he let it cool refilled oil and started ,had oil pressure.
I told him it was caused by the top coolant outlet splitting and it is a maintenance item, yes, easy to replace. Told him to leave with me and I'll do a report and let him know.
replaced outlet bled as best you can with combustion gasses blowing into cooling system and took it 5 minutes around the block .
returned seasick ( and I don't normally get seasick ) from non existant shocks and phoned him with report that included.
front and rear struts, expansion tank with the common failed float ( the secondary reason for overheat as the message been ignored for years ), handbrake module gears, door actuators, sway bar bushes , torque converter , air suspension compressor and front valve block leak, timing belt kits and revised oil pump, tyres and the big one which until body off to confirm would be at least warped heads ( turns out 1 cracked and warped and the other warped ). So big $$$ , combined with no guarantee the bottom end would last much longer as well as chipped and scratched paint , badly oxidised headlights, ripped seat etc , I suggested he ring a few wreckers , which offered him next to nothing so after some dollars changed hands I ended up with another project as if I needed one.[bighmmm]

Issues now addressed , car has now done 359000 k's and wife likes it.
Yes some can do these k's, even neglected but the main factors for this one getting that far are that it didn't tow much and not heavy, and big k's with few heat cycles.
I don't subscribe to looking for the lowest kilometre car when wanting to buy , it's more about heat cycles and one of the only mechanical things better with fewer k's will be sealed bearings as long as vehicle hasn't been abused and has been serviced correctly ( nb , this advice is for non mechanics as obviously I buy any old thing [bigwhistle]).155225
It may be that fewer crank failures in other models is down to less arduous use and not pulling as much weight , I also think design, tooling or metallurgy fault

In line 6 much better design

[discorevy]

Was that between #2 big end and #2 main?

I'd be surprised if it wasn't, hopefully Dazza will chime in as I've seen a few in his workshop


Ford AU got the 2.7 about 3 years after LR stopped using it, QC must have improved a lot in that time.

Territory started using them in 2011
Land rover finished with them 2012

Pippin, while I'd love to love these models, and have a glass half full approach, experience has taught me that they will never have my full trust , they are nowhere as tough an engine as say the TD5 , maybe the OP would prefer the facts. yes , maybe I'm jaded by working on these ( but I still like to give them the best care I can ), but the failure rate is unacceptable

edit: Seems less failures on eu3 ( siemens fuel system ) and later ( 2009 > models )

[Pippin]

I'd be surprised if it wasn't, hopefully Dazza will chime in as I've seen a few in his workshop



Territory started using them in 2011
Land rover finished with them 2012

Pippin, while I'd love to love these models, and have a glass half full approach, experience has taught me that they will never have my full trust , they are nowhere as tough an engine as say the TD5 , maybe the OP would prefer the facts. yes , maybe I'm jaded by working on these ( but I still like to give them the best care I can ), but the failure rate is unacceptableFair enough Discovery, I like to think it generally comes down to being careful how they are driven and regular servicing to minimise the risk of engine failure.

[PerthDisco]

Too many similarities to be a different vehicle, so a few facts
Had 347764 kilometres when It came in being towed by a vz commodore:eek2:


Yep same bloke and he fully admitted to having done bare minimum maintenance for many years. Says he’s heard many reports how nice you’ve fixed it up.

So the coolant leak was the standard plastic coolant fitting top of motor and not core plugs?

With the broken coolant tank float is the low coolant light permanently on?

[Tombie]

If you had a 1 in 72 chance of winning lotto can you imagine how many ticket sales there would be...conversely I don't like playing Russian Roulette with a total engine failure where the repair bill is what $25,000?

Cheers

Where are these numbers coming from?

$25k was a brand new long motor installed by a dealer with a full factory warranty.

It’s about $6k now

[ozscott]

Yep 25k. For a new one. It was posted on here years ago. I see it's now a lot cheaper as people are putting in second hand ones. Can't imagine you could get a crate one. Why would you want to pay for a crate version anyway? Better to get a good 2.7 rebuilt using billeted gear that Justin was referring to.

Yep so what $10k second hand installed as noted above. Not fun. Not for older vehicles. Having said that $10k buys you a good top hat brand new reco 4.6 with some attention to detail (fitted) to.D2. But neither idea floats my boat much.
Cheers

[ozscott]

Disco 3, used low mileage engines fitted expect round $10,000This Mike.

Cheers

[Laurie]

Justin
What would be the cost to buy & Fit that Hurricane crank ? It certainly looks the goods.

I live in fear my daughters 2011 D4 goes bang !!!

Laurie

[Tombie]

This Mike.

Cheers

Remember when a TD5 injector was a ridiculous price?
Or a replacement head was $6k

These things change over time.
The engines were never “rebuildable” either...

[PerthDisco]

It’s about $6k now

For a brand new LR mill not ex Territory?

[ozscott]

For a brand new LR mill not ex Territory?No way. No that will be second hand long motor LR plus fitting on top so $10k all up as noted above. Cheers

[ozscott]

Remember when a TD5 injector was a ridiculous price?
Or a replacement head was $6k

These things change over time.
The engines were never “rebuildable” either...Yeah dead right. So many of the modern motors just can't be rebuilt or can't feasibly be rebuilt. Cheers

[Tombie]

Yeah dead right. So many of the modern motors just can't be rebuilt or can't feasibly be rebuilt. Cheers

They said that of the TD5.

They are all being rebuilt now

[ozscott]

True although a lot now far more complex and not having an iron block and the relative simplicity of the Td5 would be largely impossible or not feasible. Graphite blocks, roller bottom ends, double OHC multi variable valve timing. What a nightmare.

Cheers

[DiscoJeffster]

True although a lot now far more complex and not having an iron block and the relative simplicity of the Td5 would be largely impossible or not feasible. Graphite blocks, roller bottom ends, double OHC multi variable valve timing. What a nightmare.

Cheers

Scott. I was rebuilding alloy block engines 20 years ago. There’s nothing complex about them, it just comes down to how accessible parts are to facilitate a repair. The LR engines have been hard to get bottom end rebuild specs for or parts. That’s no a difficultly technically but a close ecosystem issue.

[ozscott]

What about the cost of all the VVTI stuff and rollers it's all bloody dear. And very very fine tolerances of modern motors. It's not alloy as such that's the problem. Look.at the Rover. Dead simple. Sleeves .

A lot of new blocks made with graphit or other composites are single use.
Cheers

[discorevy]

Yep same bloke and he fully admitted to having done bare minimum maintenance for many years. Says he’s heard many reports how nice you’ve fixed it up.

So the coolant leak was the standard plastic coolant fitting top of motor and not core plugs?

With the broken coolant tank float is the low coolant light permanently on?

Yep, leak was the standard plastic outlet that splits in half , never seen a core plug leak on these, thankfully

Low coolant message will be displayed until rectified

[PerthDisco]

Yep, leak was the standard plastic outlet that splits in half , never seen a core plug leak on these, thankfully

Low coolant message will be displayed until rectified

Yep, so my guess is said plastic coolant part was never changed from new and somehow lasted 12-13 years before fail. Makes the replace every 7 year at timing belt time a good estimate.

[NavyDiver]

Looking at a new family car, don't have a huge budget at the moment.I am considering a D3, whats the general consensus on engines etc? Will be used for running around and soft touring, to the snow etc. I have a 130 300tdi so don't need another project, just something reliable (enough) for the wife to mostly drive around.

My parents have a later model Disco 4, which I like and has been good to them. Unfortunately out of my budget though!

Any advice welcome!
My 2005 D3 SE was written off by insurance company. At auction it was brought by a gent who strips and sells parts. He drove it and said "Nicest car he has driven" Its now his businesses luxury pick up truck -Lux inside comfort and driving outside is like a gold golf ball. - it was well past 300,000 km.

My new 2009 D3 is a baby but love it as much. Check thoroughly service history and driver(s) style. My new one may have done around OZ but hardly if at all hit dirt. That's changing already happily. [thumbsupbig]

[Mickyg]

My 2 cents worth....I bought a petrol 07 D3 for $13500 and 170k on it. Its amazing to drive and fits my family. The nearest Toyota equiv. was 30k+ and aren't as comfortable. I know they are service hungry but $16500 is a lot of maintenance before its the same price as a cruiser.

[DazzaTD5]

Just to clarify...

*Twas Land Rover that said 2.7 engines wasnt rebuild-able, so hence there are no genuine engine parts, pistons cranks etc etc.
*There are plenty of other branded parts for the 2.7lt, pistons cranks etc.
*Some of the parts though aint cheap.
*its not that the engine is not rebuild-able, its the labour cost of doing such an exercise.
*An example, some time back I got in a new 2.4lt engine for a Defender, it was round $8K - $10K, I couldnt rebuild an engine for that.

*Pity Land Rovers arent common in Russia, their workmanship seems excellent and their labour cost seems very respectable.

[RANDLOVER]

Discovery 3 Winch Bumper | Britpart (https://www.britpart.com/news/archive/discovery-3-winch-bumper)

Now you can get a steel front bumper from Britpart, I think they should've made a more recessed one without the winch, as it can be discreet mounted.

[DiscoJeffster]

Why would you produce something like this so late in the product cycle?

[INter674]

Looks home made☺......


.......by me!

[Tombie]

Why would you produce something like this so late in the product cycle?

Because now they are cheap vehicles people are buying them to play!

[DiscoJeffster]

Because now they are cheap vehicles people are buying them to play!

True

[vbrab]

If you had a 1 in 72 chance of winning lotto can you imagine how many ticket sales there would be...conversely I don't like playing Russian Roulette with a total engine failure where the repair bill is what $25,000?

Cheers


I found a low K TDV6 2.7 out of a Ford Territory ($5000, with turbo), and paid Landy specialist $8000 to transplant and also do work not related to actual transplant cost, so likley could have been $5000 otherwise.
Point being, that while there are still some low K Territory motors about, a transplant can be had for perhaps under $10-12000.

[DiscoDB]

On current prices - if the motor did fail in mine I would just buy another and keep the old one for spares.