Australians turn their backs on Holden

[Homestar]

As a former ‘Holden Family’ I find this a bit sad but they do deserve everything that is happening to them. You treat your market with this sort of contempt and this is the result - people speaking loud and clear by stampeding away from them.

Lowest Sales in 71 years, and 18 month in a row sales have dropped. Now also out of the top 10 for the first time - Holden posts lowest monthly sales since 1948 | CarAdvice (https://www.caradvice.com.au/797541/holden-lowest-monthly-sales-since-1948/)

Wonder how long before it sinks completely...

[Fatso]

I left Holden when they stopped making real ones .[bawl]

[DazzaTD5]

That is what happens when you screw over the Australian tax payer.
Good riddance to it, one less **** brand, GM don't let the door slap you in the arse on the way out of Australia.

AND GM has been doing the exact same thing to American tax payers.

[Eevo]

title is wrong.
should read: Holden (GM) turns their backs on Australians

[DazzaTD5]

And if I am reading the figures stated by caradvice (so take that with a pinch of salt).

Ford is looking pretty rubbish on sales.
Sept: sold 3116 Rangers.
Sept: ford sales: 4783 (so for the month without Ranger sales, Ford would be on the rubbish heap with Holden).
VW sales also look pretty rubbish (again down, where they should be).

meanwhile Toyota minus 3364 Hilux sales, still sold round 12,000 vehicles.

[Homestar]

The CarAdvice figures come from the FCIA, so yes, take with a grain of salt... 😉

[Slunnie]

As a former ‘Holden Family’ I find this a bit sad but they do deserve everything that is happening to them. You treat your market with this sort of contempt and this is the result - people speaking loud and clear by stampeding away from them.

Lowest Sales in 71 years, and 18 month in a row sales have dropped. Now also out of the top 10 for the first time - Holden posts lowest monthly sales since 1948 | CarAdvice (https://www.caradvice.com.au/797541/holden-lowest-monthly-sales-since-1948/)

Wonder how long before it sinks completely...

I agree, I also think that it's sad and disappointing. I think when they stopped Australian manufacturing it was the final nail in the coffin. To the consumer they are just a rebadging company now, and sadly the cars that they selected for rebadging were rebadging were a problem also. Australians have never taken to rebadged cars either, in the rebadging era people were paying more to buy a car that wasn't rebadged - Commodore/Lexan, Corolla/Nova etc. It's pretty bad also when you now see Holden dealerships closed down and reopened as a different brand indicating less sales and support availablity compared to what there was.

I think Holden will disappear as they are now nothing - Is there any other automotive brand in the world that doesn't actually make cars? It wouldn't surprised me to see GM, Chev, Opal, Vauxhaul or something like that take over Holden as a brand.

[goingbush]

I still have not seen a ZB Commodore either parked , nor noticed on the road . I'm sure theres one at the local Holden dealer , but I'm not hankering to look at it. The race was on between spotting a ZB and a Disco 5 first , but saw my first D5 last week, what a disappointment. Probably see a new Defender before a ZB .

About the only make of car Ive never owned is a Holden ( well except for a Combo, but that hardly counts) but I had a Telecom VN Station Wagon for a few years as a work car, thought it was OK but not deserved of Aussie Legend status IMO.

[Tote]

Holden had a nice little earner with performance sedans and Utes until the demise of local production. Unfortunately unlike Ford they did not have a strategy to retain buyer interest after the cessation of local production. Ford had the RHD Mustang and the well regarded Ranger to carry their sales over. Holden had a late arriving Camaro that is too expensive and needs to be converted and a Colorado that is still tarnished by early model poor opinions. The Market has moved on from sedans outside the performance market so regardless of how good the FWD/AWD Commodore replacement was it was never going to sell like the outgoing model.

Ford also had the ranger for some years prior to the cessation of local manufacture so were able to use it to drag punters into the showroom as opposed to Holden.

I'd agree that GM is likely to shut down the badge engineering and we will see Opels and Chevs here rather than Holdens.

Regards,
Tote

[DazzaTD5]

I still have not seen a ZB Commodore either parked , nor noticed on the road . I'm sure theres one at the local Holden dealer , but I'm not hankering to look at it. The race was on between spotting a ZB and a Disco 5 first , but saw my first D5 last week, what a disappointment. Probably see a new Defender before a ZB .

About the only make of car Ive never owned is a Holden ( well except for a Combo, but that hardly counts) but I had a Telecom VN Station Wagon for a few years as a work car, thought it was OK but not deserved of Aussie Legend status IMO.

Funny enough I only saw my first Discovery 5 (with its big fat arse) in the wild a few weeks ago. Have seen about 4 of the imported badged "commodore" and all I could think was "oh you dirty so n so".

The VN was a bit of a rough first new model. The VP was vastly improved. They continually improved and were overall a good vehicle. The U.S Police force used the statesman version for years after the Crown Vic stopped production.

[Barraman]

I was born into a Holden family and bought 10 new Holdens of my own over 40 years from a V8 Torana in 1974 to an SS Commodore in 2014.

I loved the SS - until I bought the D4! [bigsmile]

[101RRS]

Holden had a nice little earner with performance sedans and Utes until the demise of local production.

Along this line, I am surprised HSV has not developed the new Commodore (it does actually look OK) along the lines of the old HSV Commodore - the old HSV Commodores had a following and I think putting in a 6.2 V8 with rear wheel drive in the new Commodore like they have done with the V8 Supercars would probably have sold well in a small niche corner of the market.

Garry

[Homestar]

title is wrong.
should read: Holden (GM) turns their backs on Australians

They are one and the same. Semantics about the name mean nothing. Holden has been a local name only for decades everyone understands this. They are reaping what the have sown...

[Slunnie]

Along this line, I am surprised HSV has not developed the new Commodore (it does actually look OK) along the lines of the old HSV Commodore - the old HSV Commodores had a following and I think putting in a 6.2 V8 with rear wheel drive in the new Commodore like they have done with the V8 Supercars would probably have sold well in a small niche corner of the market.

Garry

I agree. I thought that I read that for the road car the Turbo's in the V6 wouldn't fit and same with the V8. I think the people would have wanted the V8 though, even if there is more power available from the V6TT

[Pickles2]

HSV investigated very thoroughly what they could do to develop an HSV version of the VXR, but nothing added up,.....make of this statement as you will.
On the subject of the current ""Commodore" & its "unpopularity", the so called "expert" press have plenty to do with creating an unpopular feeling for this car. I've driven several examples, and it's a great car, well finished & with varying levels of performance depending upon which model suits your application.
Have you driven all of the variations that are available?
Ain't never saying it's the best car on the planet, but it sure ain't the worst.
Pickles.

[Tins]

Along this line, I am surprised HSV has not developed the new Commodore (it does actually look OK) along the lines of the old HSV Commodore - the old HSV Commodores had a following and I think putting in a 6.2 V8 with rear wheel drive in the new Commodore like they have done with the V8 Supercars would probably have sold well in a small niche corner of the market.

Garry

Who's going to pay for R&D, including crash testing etc. for a niche car like that? HSV did mods that fell within the testing Holden did on the base car. HSV never paid a cent for crash or emission testing, everything they did was already tested by the big boys. A 6.2 Opel Insignia exists nowhere in the world, in fact a V8 RWD Opel Insignia exists nowhere in the world, so there is absolutely no avenue for HSV to pursue such a thing, and the number of punters who would buy one would in no way justify the $BILLIONS it would cost to develop one. If, and it is a VERY big if, there was a market worldwide then maybe, but there ain't and there never will be. It's why Commodore and Falcon went belly up in the first place. With safety and emission laws the way they are there is simply no financial justification for building low volume vehicles ( make no mistake, the mainstream Commodore and Falcon were low volume on a world scale, HSV and FPV were mere blips ) anywhere except maybe Mexico, ( who'd buy a car developed there? ), and the UK which still allows tiny mobs like Noble and Morgan to make their 100 or so cars a year out of some sort of British charity.

(OT) This is precisely the reason the old Deefer died. LR could have kept it going, UK only, but sales had fallen to ridiculous levels.

Maybe LR should sell the plans and dies and stamping tools to Morgan. The two seem to fit each other, clinging tooth and nail to the past, and Morgan need a new model....:beer: That was said with a bit of a tear in my eye, as I love the Deefer. The new one will never be a Deefer. It'll just be good.

[Tins]

They are one and the same. Semantics about the name mean nothing. Holden has been a local name only for decades everyone understands this. They are reaping what the have sown...

Think you need to read Eevo's post again with your teeth in, Gav. He ain't mixing GM with Holden, he's merely saying what a lot of folk think. Me included, if I'm honest.

[Homestar]

Think you need to read Eevo's post again with your teeth in, Gav. He ain't mixing GM with Holden, he's merely saying what a lot of folk think. Me included, if I'm honest.

So you’re blaming all of Holdens woes on GM and saying the local Holden management did nothing wrong?.... Right, whatever makes you sleep better at night. 😉

By the replies so far it would seem most don’t in fact care that GM pulling the strings makes much difference. GM have owned Holden since 1931. We were all happy with that until the raped the taxpayer and ****ed over everyone here, but now it’s all their fault and Holden had nothing to do with it?

Blame it on whoever you like, the sooner this cluster**** of a company dies here, the better IMO.

Run our and buy a new Craptiva or Equinox or ‘Commodore’ if you think this turd needs saving, I won’t be.

[Tins]

HSV investigated very thoroughly what they could do to develop an HSV version of the VXR, but nothing added up,.....make of this statement as you will.

Of course they did. They need a continuing business model after all, and I doubt the Colorado measures up. But shoehorning a 6.2 RWD into an Opel Insignia FWD would test even AMG, and that is what Garry was suggesting.


On the subject of the current ""Commodore" & its "unpopularity", the so called "expert" press have plenty to do with creating an unpopular feeling for this car.

I don't believe the press had much to do with it. No doubt some of them, those who loved the GTS for example, would be disappointed, but seriously, who reads Wheels anymore? I'm sure the ZB ( sounds like a Fairlane ) is a competent car. So is a Mondeo. (Ford had the sense not to call that a Falcon though). But the mob have moved on, The Commodore is an Opel. I'm sure it will be well built. I'm also sure it will be bland. So, what's its advantage over, say, a Mazda 6, or a Camry? It has none. The VF still had the cred of V8 RWD as its halo. HSV on the ZB has less cred than a TRD Aurion.

Welcome to the jelly mould future, folks. You should all be grateful to LandRover for giving us the New Defender. At least it is a little different from the mob.

(Disclaimer lol. I grew up with Norm Beechey, Harry Firth, Colin Bond and Allan Moffat, and I adored Australian muscle cars. I haven't seen one since around 1984. So I don't gibe a stuff about HSV or FPV. Just importing stuff and bolting it on doesn't float my boat. One caveat though.. The work Ford did locally on the Barra, and especially the Turbo, was exceptional. The Barra remains a milestone in Australian engineering history. Sure, Pickles, it does not have the history of the Repco 5000, but it was awesome. And it was, like the 308, entirely Australian, unlike the LS.)

[Homestar]

I don't believe the press had much to do with it. No doubt some of them, those who loved the GTS for example, would be disappointed, but seriously, who reads Wheels anymore? I'm sure the ZB ( sounds like a Fairlane ) is a competent car. So is a Mondeo. (Ford had the sense not to call that a Falcon though). But the mob have moved on, The Commodore is an Opel. I'm sure it will be well built. I'm also sure it will be bland. So, what's its advantage over, say, a Mazda 6, or a Camry? It has none. The VF still had the cred of V8 RWD as its halo. HSV on the ZB has less cred than a TRD Aurion.

Agreed, it’s not like everyone in the Country turned their back on the Commodore because of what the press said, that just ridiculous. Holden ****ed it up, pure and simple. Even Commodore drivers are smart enough to see that. 😉 The press only echoed what everyone was thinking.

Pickles - it doesn’t matter that it may drive well and not be the worst car in the world, the Australian public were never going at accept a front wheel drive import as a ‘Commodore’. If they’d called it something else they may have sold more of them. They changed from Kingswood to Commodore and that went down ok as the Commodore was a different car from the Kingswood - they left the old model as it was. The bright spark who thought they could continue the Commodore name with a completely different car didn’t think things through too well at all IMO. Given that a ‘new’ Commodore you buy today will have been built in 2017, it’s pretty hard to deny that. I don’t think they’ve got to 2018 models yet, but I could be wrong. I do know that production was halted over 6 months ago and has not restarted so guessing there’s still a glut of the ****ers out there waiting to be sold.

[Tins]

Agreed, it’s not like everyone in the Country turned their back on the Commodore because of what the press said,

Nope, they turned their back because it was no longer a Commodore. Folks may be fickle, but they are consistently fickle.

[Tombie]

SAPOL Whyalla recently had to abandon a High Speed chase as the Opel overheated [emoji41]

[Tins]

So you’re blaming all of Holdens woes on GM and saying the local Holden management did nothing wrong?.... Right, whatever makes you sleep better at night. 😉

By the replies so far it would seem most don’t in fact care that GM pulling the strings makes much difference. GM have owned Holden since 1931. We were all happy with that until the raped the taxpayer and ****ed over everyone here, but now it’s all their fault and Holden had nothing to do with it?

Blame it on whoever you like, the sooner this cluster**** of a company dies here, the better IMO.

Run our and buy a new Craptiva or Equinox or ‘Commodore’ if you think this turd needs saving, I won’t be.

Huh? How did you get all that from my post?? I'm doing nothing of the sort. I was merely pointing out that Eevo expressed something that I was going to. GM ( so that you are sure, that is Detroit ) turned their back on us. They chucked about $1billion at GMH ( just so you are sure, that is Holden ) so that we got the mostly Nissan engined VL Commodore in around 1986. Then they washed their hands of Holden, and the Aus Govt stepped in to prop GMH ( Same ) up.

GMH answered totally to GM. As you say, they owned Holden's from 1931. Remember, that was a coach building company. GM took money, all the time, from then until Holden could not turn a profit, which came around the time the VH arrived, although the writing was on the wall with the VB. If you really want to look at in terms of 'success' though, Holden's hold on market leader status became shaky around the HX. They turned the Torana into a "Sunbird", to compete with the Toyota Corona, of all things. ( they even shared an engine for a while, the Starfire Four. We called it the 'Backfire four'.
Then there was Radial Tuned Suspension, which attracted the same mob that think HSV is special. WOW. Gave us the HZ. I cannot begin to tell you how thrilled I was....
Holden then gave us the VB Commodore. They took an Opel Rekord, took away the IRS and gave it a crap live axle, added the asthmatic red motor ( OK, maybe it was Black ) and presented it to us like it was a BMW.
When Holden was unable to meet the ADR 27A emission laws with their engines, GM should have taken them out the back and shot them. Instead, we got one of the best Commodores ever. It wasn't a great car, but it was a Great engine. Nissan build great straight six engines. Pity Holden put such a low nose on the VL that the car didn't cool. The VL Turbo had massive cooling issues, which weren't apparent on the Skyline that shared the same engine. And this situation was what a Billion dollars bought?

I'm sorry, Gav, but I don't understand what you read into my comments. Apart from being a Ford man back when it meant something, I gave up on Holden at least three decades ago, maybe more. If I had any sympathy for them, the VL was the last straw in cynicism.

They did maintain some cred with the V8 for a few years, but then sourced crate engines from the US. They haven't been Australian for 25 years, except for the location of the factory.

I give far more credit to Ford, in the recent dying days. The Barra engine is incredible, and it was wholly developed here. Where was Holden on this? Ford Australia's development of the Miami V8 locally is also impressive. And then there is Broadmeadows, where Ford develops cars for the Asia/Pacific region. The list of cars totally or partially developed here in Melbourne is seriously impressive, except none bear the GM logo.

You read me completely wrong, Gav. I gave up on Holden more than 30 years ago, and I suggest that you brush up on your comprehension skills. Holden? Good riddance. Ford? Not so much, at least not yet.

[Eevo]

So you’re blaming all of Holdens woes on GM and saying the local Holden management did nothing wrong?.... Right, whatever makes you sleep better at night. 😉



i listed both as both were responsible. but i wasnt overthinking it like your are.

[Eevo]

SAPOL Whyalla recently had to abandon a High Speed chase as the Opel overheated [emoji41]

how fast were you going?

[Tins]

SAPOL Whyalla recently had to abandon a High Speed chase as the Opel overheated [emoji41]

Better than Vic, Mike. It's the OHS laws that overheat here. The M5 BMWs are fine.

[Slunnie]

They did maintain some cred with the V8 for a few years, but then sourced crate engines from the US. They haven't been Australian for 25 years, except for the location of the factory.

I give far more credit to Ford, in the recent dying days. The Barra engine is incredible, and it was wholly developed here. Where was Holden on this? Ford Australia's development of the Miami V8 locally is also impressive. And then there is Broadmeadows, where Ford develops cars for the Asia/Pacific region. The list of cars totally or partially developed here in Melbourne is seriously impressive, except none bear the GM logo.


I really think you've missed a hell of a lot that Holden have done and are still doing. Those blue oval glasses really aren't very good!

[101RRS]

GM ( so that you are sure, that is Detroit ) turned their back on us. They chucked about $1billion at GMH ( just so you are sure, that is Holden ) so that we got the mostly Nissan engined VL Commodore in around 1986.


While I dont agree with some of your points in the above posts, you also make some good points - but the sarcasm like that in the quote does not become you and weakens your overall argument.

Homestar, as we all do - know exactly the relationship between GM and General Motors-Holden.

Garry

[Tins]

I really think you've missed a hell of a lot that Holden have done and are still doing. Those blue oval glasses really aren't very good!

Given that I don't care one way or the other, I'd suggest you give your own specs a polish. I have no brand loyalty ( sure, I did once), but I would be interested to hear your take on what "Holden is doing". Apart from dying, that is. I, for one, would be pleased to hear that Holden is as engaged in the Asia/Pacific region as Ford Australia is. If, in fact they are, then they need to tell people about it.

I repeat, I would LOVE for Holden to be engaged here. I grew up with the Big Two and a Half. I would love for the Holden name to continue to mean something. That, however, is their job, not mine. Maybe that's a job for you?

[Tins]

While I dont agree with some of your points in the above posts, you also make some good points - but the sarcasm like that in the quote does not become you and weakens your overall argument.

Homestar, as we all do - know exactly the relationship between GM and General Motors-Holden.

Garry

Can you run that by me again? Not sure of the sarcasm you refer to. Did you miss a "quote" thing or something?

Anyway, If you detected sarcasm, it wasn't directed at Gav, but at GM. They took us for granted for decades, but ran away at the first sign of trouble ( OK, OK, not the FIRST sign ).

[Slunnie]

Given that I don't care one way or the other, I'd suggest you give your own specs a polish. I have no brand loyalty ( sure, I did once), but I would be interested to hear your take on what "Holden is doing". Apart from dying, that is. I, for one, would be pleased to hear that Holden is as engaged in the Asia/Pacific region as Ford Australia is. If, in fact they are, then they need to tell people about it.

I repeat, I would LOVE for Holden to be engaged here. I grew up with the Big Two and a Half. I would love for the Holden name to continue to mean something. That, however, is their job, not mine. Maybe that's a job for you?
Let that venom out, you be that person. :lol2:

Specs... pfft, laughable you are.

What, are you seriously saying now that you have no idea of what Holden are doing after your "Bara the world" thesis. You can google it.

[Tins]

Can you run that by me again? Not sure of the sarcasm you refer to. Did you miss a "quote" thing or something?

Anyway, If you detected sarcasm, it wasn't directed at Gav, but at GM. They took us for granted for decades, but ran away at the first sign of trouble ( OK, OK, not the FIRST sign ).

Oh, OK, I get it. Sure, it was a little sarcastic, but it wasn't directed at Gav. This topic has arisen in one form or another often. It's a topic that is close to my heart, only in the sense that I follow a football club.

I grew up as an associate Member of the Rolls Royce Owners Club. No, I didn't have a RR, and neither did my folks, bur someone we knew did, and he was 'important'. 1950s remember. My mates at school however thought Holden were the best ( Labor, Chiffley, all that.. I was a part of the Liberals. Menzies etc... ) I wasn't the same as them, and the point of difference I could find was Ford. Holden was Red ( yes, even then ) and Ford was blue ( always was ), and rivalry was born. Tribalism. Once forged, never broken..Blah blah. Bit it meant something back then, worthless tough it really was.

So. I chose Ford. I would argue black and white that Ford beat Holden..... (Sorry, Slunnie, I was a teenager... Perhaps you still are. I don't know.) I believed that a Ford was the Best. The antics during the Le Mans stuff showed that people as exalted as Henry Ford II and Enzo Ferrari could be just as foolish helps a little, and they didn't resolve the issue.

[Tins]

Let that venom out, you be that person. :lol2:

Specs... pfft, laughable you are.

What, are you seriously saying now that you have no idea of what Holden are doing after your "Bara the world" thesis. You can google it.

Oh dear, do you have some old thing you'd like to deal with??

Have you not got over the fact that you are no more important than anyone else? Are you not as important as you'd like to be, Slunnie?



Give me what "Holden is doing now" ...I can't wait.

[Slunnie]

Tribalism... would you believe that in my classes (no, I'm not a teenager), the kids are divided between Ford and Holden, but they're all united in their love for Toyota! Needless to say, the LandRover/Toyota banter is terrific! :lol2:

[Slunnie]

Oh dear, do you have some old thing you'd like to deal with??

Have you not got over the fact that you are no more important than anyone else? Are you not as important as you'd like to be, Slunnie?



Give me what "Holden is doing now" ...I can't wait.

Let it flow. :lol2:

Google it.

[Tins]

Tribalism... would you believe that in my classes (no, I'm not a teenager), the kids are divided between Ford and Holden, but they're all united in their love for Toyota! Needless to say, the LandRover/Toyota banter is terrific! :lol2:

OK, You've given me new hope. I have a long memory, Slunnie, and you had a go at me a while back.... If this is about something else then let it fly. Yes, I believe that they love Toyos, and I don't blame them, much as it hurts. The things work.

Sometimes, Slunnie, I think we need to meet, at some level, in order to know who we are.

[Tins]

OK, You've given me new hope. I have a long memory, Slunnie, and you had a go at me a while back.... If this is about something else then let it fly. Yes, I believe that they love Toyos, and I don't blame them, much as it hurts. The things work.

Sometimes, Slunnie, I think we need to meet, at some level, in order to know who we are.

Darn it. I say we shift the clock, and I don't care where we shift it it to, and we ditch daylight saving. That way we could hav an iintelligent conversation...

I'm sure Slunnie and I can manage that... Maybe...

[Hogarthde]

So, Homestar writes “ Australian’s turn their backs on Holden”

Eevo writes. “ Holden GM turns their backs on Australians”

Why all the ensuing fuss? and why isn’t Tasmania mentioned ?

[Pickles2]

Jeez, this subject has been "done to death", but here's a pretty good article on the subject, probably the most balanced I've read, and it's a "balance" that's needed when discussing an emotive subject like this, because there's PLENTY of stuff, over MANY years, that contributed to Holden's current situation. Please pay particular attention to what M.D. Peter Hanenberger contributed, and that particularly after He left, all major decisions were made by Detroit.
Why it failed: One year on from Holden’s Aussie factory closure (https://www.whichcar.com.au/features/why-it-failed-one-year-on-from-holdens-aussie-factory-closure)
Pickles.

[Eevo]

and why isn’t Tasmania mentioned ?

prob cause they still use the horse n cart done there

[Homestar]

Jeez, this subject has been "done to death", but here's a pretty good article on the subject, probably the most balanced I've read, and it's a "balance" that's needed when discussing an emotive subject like this, because there's PLENTY of stuff, over MANY years, that contributed to Holden's current situation. Please pay particular attention to what M.D. Peter Hanenberger contributed, and that particularly after He left, all major decisions were made by Detroit.
Why it failed: One year on from Holden’s Aussie factory closure (https://www.whichcar.com.au/features/why-it-failed-one-year-on-from-holdens-aussie-factory-closure)
Pickles.

It will only be done to death when they roll over and die. This thread started based on latest sales figures, and I'll continue to dredge up their ****ty performance and remind everyone how badly they screwed over this Country. Doesn't matter at all to me who made the decisions, I get that GM own Holden, but why try and say 'Holden didn't do it, GM did!' - it's all the same thing. Looks like most Aussies agree with me given their Sales (or lack thereof)

[Pickles2]

It will only be done to death when they roll over and die. This thread started based on latest sales figures, and I'll continue to dredge up their ****ty performance and remind everyone how badly they screwed over this Country. Doesn't matter at all to me who made the decisions, I get that GM own Holden, but why try and say 'Holden didn't do it, GM did!' - it's all the same thing. Looks like most Aussies agree with me given their Sales (or lack thereof)
Gav, you are usually fairly sensible with your analysis of things, but mate when the word HOLDEN crops up, you seem to lose the plot. Did you read the link I supplied?...Fairly lengthy, but as I said, one of the best summations I've seen?..what did you think of it?
Can't you understand the difference between "Holden" & "GM Detroit", because you should, if you can't or don't want to, you're never going to understand..because it was GM Detroit who did not/would not support any of Holden's export/new model programs, without which HOLDEN / Commodore whatever was doomed, because NO manufacturer, anywhere in the world, makes a car just for its own country with a population the size of Aus,....it's impossible, that's why it doesn't happen,...anywhere.
Mate, there is MASSIVE differentiation between "GM DETROIT" & "Holden", when talking about the current situation, and how it came to be, you don't seem to want to listen, because you keep putting **** on "Holden", and remember, they were actually the last to shut up shop.
There wouldn't have been one single Holden employee who would have contributed to what's happened,..ALL decisions coming from GM Detroit.
I understand you're ****ed of with the current situation, you don't like the cars etc etc etc, but I would hope that you can discern the HUGE difference between Holden & GM.
I've never had a financial interest in Holden, never worked in a Dealership etc, so I'm no Holden "one eyed fanatic", yep I've owned a few Holdens, HSVs etc, but I've also owned Ford, Audi, Morris, Landrover etc etc,....I'm not really a devotee of any particular make, but I do take an interest in cars & the Aussie auto industry, and have done so for a very long time.
I'm as disappointed as anyone to see what's happened, I don't like it, I do know a few people in the Holden camp as I do other brands, & I can tell you the Holden guys are hurting,....but they don't blame "Holden", simply because none of the "fateful" decisions came from Fishermans Bend.
Pickles.

[Slunnie]

OK, You've given me new hope. I have a long memory, Slunnie, and you had a go at me a while back.... If this is about something else then let it fly. Yes, I believe that they love Toyos, and I don't blame them, much as it hurts. The things work.

Sometimes, Slunnie, I think we need to meet, at some level, in order to know who we are.


Darn it. I say we shift the clock, and I don't care where we shift it it to, and we ditch daylight saving. That way we could hav an iintelligent conversation...

I'm sure Slunnie and I can manage that... Maybe...

Johntins, I quite sincerely have no idea what happened a while back, and despite my blue oval coloured glasses comment which was my out of line comment, I really don't look at the conversations as a personal thing. Play the topic, not the man, and robust disussion is pretty cool - but I hope that whatever happened back then that it was a discussion directed at the topic and not the man, my apologies if you think I've been attacking Johntins. I don't have any grudge or anything against you or anybody else on the forum (well, I have learnt not to reply to one member, but what he is interested in is very cool) and if anything I think your opinion is good and I have found your posts in here to be really interesting. From my end we are all good, I think we're both just in this conversation because its interesting.

[Slunnie]

Gav, you are usually fairly sensible with your analysis of things, but mate when the word HOLDEN crops up, you seem to lose the plot. Did you read the link I supplied?...Fairly lengthy, but as I said, one of the best summations I've seen?..what did you think of it?
Can't you understand the difference between "Holden" & "GM Detroit", because you should, if you can't or don't want to, you're never going to understand..because it was GM Detroit who did not/would not support any of Holden's export/new model programs, without which HOLDEN / Commodore whatever was doomed, because NO manufacturer, anywhere in the world, makes a car just for its own country with a population the size of Aus,....it's impossible, that's why it doesn't happen,...anywhere.
Mate, there is MASSIVE differentiation between "GM DETROIT" & "Holden", when talking about the current situation, and how it came to be, you don't seem to want to listen, because you keep putting **** on "Holden", and remember, they were actually the last to shut up shop.
There wouldn't have been one single Holden employee who would have contributed to what's happened,..ALL decisions coming from GM Detroit.
I understand you're ****ed of with the current situation, you don't like the cars etc etc etc, but I would hope that you can discern the HUGE difference between Holden & GM.
I've never had a financial interest in Holden, never worked in a Dealership etc, so I'm no Holden "one eyed fanatic", yep I've owned a few Holdens, HSVs etc, but I've also owned Ford, Audi, Morris, Landrover etc etc,....I'm not really a devotee of any particular make, but I do take an interest in cars & the Aussie auto industry, and have done so for a very long time.
I'm as disappointed as anyone to see what's happened, I don't like it, I do know a few people in the Holden camp as I do other brands, & I can tell you the Holden guys are hurting,....but they don't blame "Holden", simply because none of the "fateful" decisions came from Fishermans Bend.
Pickles.

I guess at the very least the design engineering side of Holdens operations is still active. A friend of mine is one of the engineers at GM Detroit (BTW, there is a lot of really cool stuff under development over there) and they're still using Holdens engineers and design teams for their work, with him making trips to Melbourne to tie in with the Australian teams in development of new products.

My vested interest in Holden is trying to find a working 2bl carby for the 202 in my Landy. :lol:

[Homestar]

Gav, you are usually fairly sensible with your analysis of things, but mate when the word HOLDEN crops up, you seem to lose the plot. Did you read the link I supplied?...Fairly lengthy, but as I said, one of the best summations I've seen?..what did you think of it?
Can't you understand the difference between "Holden" & "GM Detroit", because you should, if you can't or don't want to, you're never going to understand..because it was GM Detroit who did not/would not support any of Holden's export/new model programs, without which HOLDEN / Commodore whatever was doomed, because NO manufacturer, anywhere in the world, makes a car just for its own country with a population the size of Aus,....it's impossible, that's why it doesn't happen,...anywhere.
Mate, there is MASSIVE differentiation between "GM DETROIT" & "Holden", when talking about the current situation, and how it came to be, you don't seem to want to listen, because you keep putting **** on "Holden", and remember, they were actually the last to shut up shop.
There wouldn't have been one single Holden employee who would have contributed to what's happened,..ALL decisions coming from GM Detroit.
I understand you're ****ed of with the current situation, you don't like the cars etc etc etc, but I would hope that you can discern the HUGE difference between Holden & GM.
I've never had a financial interest in Holden, never worked in a Dealership etc, so I'm no Holden "one eyed fanatic", yep I've owned a few Holdens, HSVs etc, but I've also owned Ford, Audi, Morris, Landrover etc etc,....I'm not really a devotee of any particular make, but I do take an interest in cars & the Aussie auto industry, and have done so for a very long time.
I'm as disappointed as anyone to see what's happened, I don't like it, I do know a few people in the Holden camp as I do other brands, & I can tell you the Holden guys are hurting,....but they don't blame "Holden", simply because none of the "fateful" decisions came from Fishermans Bend.
Pickles.

I scanned through the article, yes and I get where you’re coming from but to me (and obviously many other Aussies) it makes no difference whatsoever. No matter if they would have survived or not with or without GM interference the way things were done, money stolen from the Aussie Taxpayer and the local industry treated, it doesn’t matter. From being a loyal Holden man I’m not having a go at them for no reason - I just think it’s the pits what’s happened and they are getting what they deserve. No I don’t seperate the names of GM or Holden - they are one and the same and have been since almost the beginning. If you do that’s fine, and if you have some sympathy for Holden, that’s fine too, I have no issue with that, but I don’t, and saying I’m ‘losing the plot’ because of the way I feel about all of this is what’s annoying me.

Differences of opinions is all - you see it one way and I see it another. Don’t make it personal please because I disagree with you.

At the end of the day, if Holdens or GM’s decisions are/were correct, then they should be doing well in sales here which clearly isn’t the case. Right or wrong, they ****ed it up big time, no opinion needed there, the facts speak for themselves.

[Homestar]

My vested interest in Holden is trying to find a working 2bl carby for the 202 in my Landy. :lol:

Use a 2 barrel Webber carb off a Ford. I did this mod on quite a few of mine over the years and they work a treat. An adaptor plate is needed to bolt it to a 2 barrel manifold but these are easy to make, and used to be available off the shelf for not much. 👍

[Slunnie]

Use a 2 barrel Webber carb off a Ford. I did this mod on quite a few of mine over the years and they work a treat. An adaptor plate is needed to bolt it to a 2 barrel manifold but these are easy to make, and used to be available off the shelf for not much. 👍

Ahhhh, I'll check that out! Thanks for this!

[Pickles2]

I scanned through the article, yes and I get where you’re coming from but to me (and obviously many other Aussies) it makes no difference whatsoever. No matter if they would have survived or not with or without GM interference the way things were done, money stolen from the Aussie Taxpayer and the local industry treated, it doesn’t matter. From being a loyal Holden man I’m not having a go at them for no reason - I just think it’s the pits what’s happened and they are getting what they deserve. No I don’t seperate the names of GM or Holden - they are one and the same and have been since almost the beginning. If you do that’s fine, and if you have some sympathy for Holden, that’s fine too, I have no issue with that, but I don’t, and saying I’m ‘losing the plot’ because of the way I feel about all of this is what’s annoying me.

Differences of opinions is all - you see it one way and I see it another. Don’t make it personal please because I disagree with you.

At the end of the day, if Holdens or GM’s decisions are/were correct, then they should be doing well in sales here which clearly isn’t the case. Right or wrong, they ****ed it up big time, no opinion needed there, the facts speak for themselves.

Don't be ridiculous Gav, I NEVER get "personal", I've been around here long enough for you to know that too. Maybe you could show me where I've done that?
Yes, I do disagree with your point of view, and like I said, if you are unable to separate Holden(Aus) from GM (Detroit) relative to which organization made the decisions, you will never understand.
I would suggest that every single employee that have lost their jobs would be angry (just as you are?), & they'd have every right to be, I have spoken to several senior execs, and they are all angry, all of them, but they are/were Holden, it most definitely wasn't their fault, and their anger/disappointment is well & truly directed at GM Detroit. They don't feel guilty, because they never had any hand in the decisions.
Maybe you ought to have a GOOD read of the link, that is if ya're REALLY interested in what happened.
And mate, I have no issue with you disagreeing with me, plenty of people do. But you've been down this track before with your, what I consider, misguided attacks on Holden. I agree with you on the end result, it's the "journey" to that point where we disagree.
If we are to disagree, it's all good, I just wish you could understand how important the difference between "Holden" & "GM Detroit" is, in this discussion.
Pickles.
As an afterthought, perhaps you could have a thorough read of the link, and then tell me where you disagree with it, because I thought it was a pretty good summation?

[Homestar]

We will agree to disagree. I just see Holden as a local brand name for GM, always have to be they are one and the same from where I sit. When I was a kid, dealerships proudly displayed ‘General Motors Holden’ branding, that’s always made it seem to me that’s the message they were conveying.

Oh, and it didn’t bother me, but saying ‘You lose the plot’ suggests something other than a disagreement in opinion. Seems that sort of comment comes from someone who thinks they are absolutely right and others views are less worthwhile, which is something else we will disagree on.

I’ll leave it at that, we’ve both had a good say on our opinions, I don’t think this is likely to go any other way between us, which is fine mate. 👍😊

[grey_ghost]

Interesting article - that I read entirely. I have to confess though - it hasn't changed my opinion of Holden though. At the end of the day, if you ask a lot of Australians what's the difference between GM and Holden, they will probably just stare at you. It's a bit like a marriage - if it ends up in divorce, you can't blame either parent - it was a partnership.

I like all brands of cars, in fact I have owned multiple brands - Holden, Land Rover, Mitsubishi, Nissan, Honda, Suzuki, Peugeot, VW, Skoda (I might have missed a few more).

The funny thing is - if anything I am a Ford man, and I've never even owned one! [tonguewink]

At the end of the day - Holden stopped making (or importing) cars that people wanted to buy. That's why it failed.

Cheers,
GG.

[Pickles2]

We will agree to disagree. I just see Holden as a local brand name for GM, always have to be they are one and the same from where I sit. When I was a kid, dealerships proudly displayed ‘General Motors Holden’ branding, that’s always made it seem to me that’s the message they were conveying.

Oh, and it didn’t bother me, but saying ‘You lose the plot’ suggests something other than a disagreement in opinion. Seems that sort of comment comes from someone who thinks they are absolutely right and others views are less worthwhile, which is something else we will disagree on.

I’ll leave it at that, we’ve both had a good say on our opinions, I don’t think this is likely to go any other way between us, which is fine mate. 👍😊
All good Gav, I do like a good discussion, and IMHO, there is nothing at all wrong with differing opinions, not in my book anyway.
Pickles.

[pop058]

Interesting article - that I read entirely. I have to confess though - it hasn't changed my opinion of Holden though. At the end of the day, if you ask a lot of Australians what's the difference between GM and Holden, they will probably just stare at you. It's a bit like a marriage - if it ends up in divorce, you can't blame either parent - it was a partnership.

I like all brands of cars, in fact I have owned multiple brands - Holden, Land Rover, Mitsubishi, Nissan, Honda, Suzuki, Peugeot, VW, Skoda (I might have missed a few more).

The funny thing is - if anything I am a Ford man, and I've never even owned one! [tonguewink]

At the end of the day - Holden stopped making (or importing) cars that people wanted to buy. That's why it failed.

Cheers,
GG.

Tend to agree but I did not read the full article. I do however understand the 2 (GM & H) were not equal partners in the decision making process that led them to where they are now. I (and a few others I presume) don't need (or want) to understand all the finger pointing bits.

" At the end of the day - Holden stopped making (or importing) cars that people wanted to buy. That's why it failed. "

[incisor]

still see the new holden badges everywhere around this neck of the woods so someone must be buying them...

i consider myself a ford man for whatever reason but have had my share of holdens from fj thru fe/fc thru hk/ht/hg but nothing later than that.

i personally think ideology killed them in AU

[Eevo]

i personally think ideology killed them in AU
ideology ?

[Homestar]

All good Gav, I do like a good discussion, and IMHO, there is nothing at all wrong with differing opinions, not in my book anyway.
Pickles.

We can certainly agree on that. 👍

[scarry]

Ahhhh, I'll check that out! Thanks for this!

A mate uses the carby off an XE ford,with a holly to webber adapter plate,but i don't know if the plate is still available.

[350RRC]

Hey.............

My 1974 2 door POS has a GM 350 truck motor in it, modded for gas in 1991, already recoed, since done nearly 700,000, coupled somewhat recently to a Ford C9 mated to half an LT 95 (the TC).

I think you're all missing the point (with respect!)............. no-one makes the perfect car.

Especially in the former tiny market of Orstraya.

DL

[grey_ghost]

Lol - On the radio this morning there was talk that Holden are going to rename themselves Chevrolet

That will make the doof-doof Commodore drivers happy [emoji6][emoji1303]

[rick130]

Lol - On the radio this morning there was talk that Holden are going to rename themselves Chevrolet

That will make the doof-doof Commodore drivers happy [emoji6][emoji1303]That more accurately reflects the product, there certainly aren't any Holdens in the product range anymore.

[BathurstTom]

It's a shame that we have lost the skills that Holden employees (and suppliers) had, as well as there spending power in the economy. It was a very poor and short sighted decision not to keep funding the car manufacturers in this country.

No Cookies | The Advertiser (https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/rendezview/counting-the-cost-of-killing-australias-car-industry/news-story/cb10862b3405a9b26ce9f4541bbdbc08)

[Eevo]

It was a very poor and short sighted decision not to keep funding the car manufacturers in this country.

No Cookies | The Advertiser (https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/rendezview/counting-the-cost-of-killing-australias-car-industry/news-story/cb10862b3405a9b26ce9f4541bbdbc08)


the top comment at the common of the article sums it up for me


I believe that all industries should be required to stand on their own two feet with zero taxpayer assistance whatsoever. I do not care if it is renewable energy, coal mining, horse racing, car manufacturing or anything else - it deserves no direct cash subsidies or indirect tax breaks.

[Slunnie]

the top comment at the common of the article sums it up for me

I believe that all industries should be required to stand on their own two feet with zero taxpayer assistance whatsoever. I do not care if it is renewable energy, coal mining, horse racing, car manufacturing or anything else - it deserves no direct cash subsidies or indirect tax breaks.

I'm not sure if there is universal agreement on this, notably with farming at the moment.

[loanrangie]

Its a shame but totally understandable , haven't made a decent car since the VL.

[Eevo]

I'm not sure if there is universal agreement on this, notably with farming at the moment.

farming makes up what % of our economy?
i feel like its a really small sector that gets a lot of news due to emotions

[16PMark]

Its a shame but totally understandable , haven't made a decent car since the VL.Even with a Nissan RB30. [emoji56][emoji6][emoji6][emoji6]
(Agreed nontheless)
[emoji41]

[BathurstTom]

the top comment at the common of the article sums it up for me
So Farmers, thousands of checkout operators, disabled workers etc should lose their jobs and be subsidised at a higher rate (Dole) by us? The loss of spending power of these people and the loss if income through farming activities will certainly help kill the economy. Hence why it is shortsighted.

[rick130]

the top comment at the common of the article sums it up for meThe big issue is that rest of the world doesn't play by free market rules, subsidising their own industries, engaging in dumping practices, engaging in large tariffs, quotas, etc to restrict imports/competition, etc.

Free market, laissaiz faire economics just doesn't work in the real world

[V8Ian]

Its a shame but totally understandable , haven't made a decent car since the VL.
You're too kind, I'd say HR.[biggrin]

[Pickles2]

You're too kind, I'd say HR.[biggrin]
Disagree big time.
The VF was recognized as a very good car, a VERY good 4 door sedan, in fact the best of the best, '"IF", that is the sort of car you're looking for. Problem was, for the "evolutionary" Aussie car market, as it evolved,..... it wasn't.
The VF Commodore was a very very good car, anyone that owned one wouldn't have any complaints, well of course there's always some who wouldn't even be happy with a Rolls Royce.
But for say carting a family & their luggage Melbourne to Brisbane say, in an easy "loping" relaxed manner, there was none better, IF ya wanted a 4 door "conventional" sedan. Trouble is, Aussie car buyers had moved on,..it was not what the majority of buyers were looking for.
Pickles.

[pop058]

You're too kind, I'd say HR.[biggrin]

Not sure what the model is but the one just before the FX. [bighmmm]

[scarry]

Trouble is, Aussie car buyers had moved on,..it was not what the majority of buyers were looking for.
Pickles.

All they want today is a diesel powered dual cab why wux,that does a once a year trip to Inskip point.[bigwhistle]

[Slunnie]

All they want today is a diesel powered dual cab why wux,that does a once a year trip to Inskip point.[bigwhistle]

Is that because they're too crap to make it to the barge. :firedevil:

[Homestar]

Disagree big time.
The VF was recognized as a very good car, a VERY good 4 door sedan, in fact the best of the best, '"IF", that is the sort of car you're looking for. Problem was, for the "evolutionary" Aussie car market, as it evolved,..... it wasn't.
The VF Commodore was a very very good car, anyone that owned one wouldn't have any complaints, well of course there's always some who wouldn't even be happy with a Rolls Royce.
But for say carting a family & their luggage Melbourne to Brisbane say, in an easy "loping" relaxed manner, there was none better, IF ya wanted a 4 door "conventional" sedan. Trouble is, Aussie car buyers had moved on,..it was not what the majority of buyers were looking for.
Pickles.

How much better was the VF over the VE? It would have had to be a quantum leap to make me want one. I had a VE for 4 years for work and it was the worst Commodore I’ve ever had. I’ve owned VB, VH, VK, VN, VR, VT and VE commodores and the VE was the most uncomfortable and the engine and gearbox could never figure out what the other was doing and at times was damn near dangerous when you went to drive off from a stop and nothing happened for a second every so often. Also had the most road noise - all over, a big step backwards from the VT IMO. Add to that a tilt tray trip a year for electrical issues, and when it left with just on 200,000KM on it, it was basically scrap metal. All my others did well over 200KKM and all were in far better condition. The VB, VN and VT were the best ones I had.

[V8Ian]

Not sure what the model is but the one just before the FX. [bighmmm]
48/215, FX was never an official designation.

[Eevo]

So Farmers, thousands of checkout operators, disabled workers etc should lose their jobs and be subsidised at a higher rate (Dole) by us? The loss of spending power of these people and the loss if income through farming activities will certainly help kill the economy. Hence why it is shortsighted.
if your going to do that, then apply it to every company out there, not just the popular ones.

[Eevo]

The big issue is that rest of the world doesn't play by free market rules, subsidising their own industries, engaging in dumping practices, engaging in large tariffs, quotas, etc to restrict imports/competition, etc.

Free market, laissaiz faire economics just doesn't work in the real world


i disagree. its supporting inefficient industries. why are we supporting inefficiencies?
the money could be better spend elsewhere

[Tombie]

i disagree. its supporting inefficient industries. why are we supporting inefficiencies?
the money could be better spend elsewhere

We could have just started taxing Religious organisations. The income from that could have funded the car industry for generations [emoji12]

[speleomike]

i disagree. its supporting inefficient industries. why are we supporting inefficiencies?
the money could be better spend elsewhere

Sometimes supporting an inefficient industry is good strategically in case there are world events that preclude importation for some years. It's not likely at present but things can change suddenly and unexpectedly. For the same reason we should be able to extract and process our own oil to diesel and petrol. It doesn't have to be 100%, just enough that we can manage for a while until it gets ramped up, if the need arises. Not all industries have a strategic value, but some do.

Mike

[BathurstTom]

i disagree. its supporting inefficient industries. why are we supporting inefficiencies?
the money could be better spend elsewhere
So we don't support car manufacturers, farmers, disabled people etc (this includes all the other companies you care to name) in a responsible way and let them all lose their jobs. This results in the farming income and tax paid on wages being lost. Maybe you could explain how losing farm income, PAYE tax and paying these people the dole out of our tax instead saves us money? How is that better spent?

[Gav 110]

farming makes up what % of our economy?
i feel like its a really small sector that gets a lot of news due to emotions

Farming takes up what % of our country?
I feel it’s a rather large sector that the government should support
Maybe not directly to the farmers but more towards the communities around our farmers
A bit more incentive to encourage small industries away from the big cities and keep the country towns alive

[rick130]

i disagree. its supporting inefficient industries. why are we supporting inefficiencies?
the money could be better spend elsewhereBut if products are being imported that are subsidised, dumped, etc how do our industries compete?
Conversely, how can they compete on the world stage when imports into certain countries are restricted through tariffs and quotas?

That's where subsidies, incentives, tax breaks, etc are needed and used.

[Pickles2]

But if products are being imported that are subsidised, dumped, etc how do our industries compete?
Conversely, how can they compete on the world stage when imports into certain countries are restricted through tariffs and quotas?

That's where subsidies, incentives, tax breaks, etc are needed and used.

SPOT ON, that's what it's all about.
Pickles.

[SPROVER]

How much better was the VF over the VE? It would have had to be a quantum leap to make me want one. I had a VE for 4 years for work and it was the worst Commodore I’ve ever had. I’ve owned VB, VH, VK, VN, VR, VT and VE commodores and the VE was the most uncomfortable and the engine and gearbox could never figure out what the other was doing and at times was damn near dangerous when you went to drive off from a stop and nothing happened for a second every so often. Also had the most road noise - all over, a big step backwards from the VT IMO. Add to that a tilt tray trip a year for electrical issues, and when it left with just on 200,000KM on it, it was basically scrap metal. All my others did well over 200KKM and all were in far better condition. The VB, VN and VT were the best ones I had.I currently have a VE HSV plated Calais with the 6.0 litre V8. It's a very comfortable car to drive with effortless power. Will do 10 litres per 100 cruising on the freeway and 14 in traffic.. or a bit more with spirited driving[emoji16]. It has plenty of room for 5 and a massive boot and will tow heavy loads easily.
The VF was a great car which I think was released at a bad time for Holden. It's a shame because for the price it was contender to the big European car makers. Especially the HSV ones. If I had the money I'd buy a VF HSV with the LSA motor [emoji106][emoji106][emoji16][emoji16]. That is a great looking car with all the power you need.

[Homestar]

Putting power to one side, the 6 cylinder versions while ok were no power houses, I found the seats uncomfortable and the interior noise level a lot higher than any other dunny door I’ve driven. Maybe the HSV version had different seats and more sound proofing.

[Pickles2]

I currently have a VE HSV plated Calais with the 6.0 litre V8. It's a very comfortable car to drive with effortless power. Will do 10 litres per 100 cruising on the freeway and 14 in traffic.. or a bit more with spirited driving[emoji16]. It has plenty of room for 5 and a massive boot and will tow heavy loads easily.
The VF was a great car which I think was released at a bad time for Holden. It's a shame because for the price it was contender to the big European car makers. Especially the HSV ones. If I had the money I'd buy a VF HSV with the LSA motor [emoji106][emoji106][emoji16][emoji16]. That is a great looking car with all the power you need.
Agree, the VF chassis was/is really good, the LSA engine is magnificent, plenty of easy smooth power when you need it, can't fault it, we have a GTSR.
Pickles.

[V8Ian]

Putting power to one side, the 6 cylinder versions while ok were no power houses, I found the seats uncomfortable and the interior noise level a lot higher than any other dunny door I’ve driven. Maybe the HSV version had different seats and more sound proofing.
I doubt there was any difference in the sound deadening, more a difference in the sound. The V8 playing tunes.

[16PMark]

Putting power to one side, the 6 cylinder versions while ok were no power houses, I found the seats uncomfortable and the interior noise level a lot higher than any other dunny door I’ve driven. Maybe the HSV version had different seats and more sound proofing.The RB30 fitted to the VL, was nothing compared to the same fitted in the Skyline.
Holden completely stuffed it up.

The RB30 in the car it was designed for, was a brilliant powerplant!

[Slunnie]

The RB30 fitted to the VL, was nothing compared to the same fitted in the Skyline.
Holden completely stuffed it up.

The RB30 in the car it was designed for, was a brilliant powerplant!

What was different?

[16PMark]

They, Holden, stuffed up the mounting/positioning of donk v radiator....


What was different?

[Slunnie]

They, Holden, stuffed up the mounting/positioning of donk v radiator....

Oh, was in relation to the cooling... or more to the point, not being able to.

[16PMark]

Oh, was in relation to the cooling... or more to the point, not being able to.Yep, head gasket issues on the vl's, but not the skylines.
I've had 3 skylines,(bloody loved em) and mates who owned vl's with same donk...

[scarry]

The highway patrol here used to run the Turbo VL.

Someone once told me it was the front shape of the VL that didn't do the cooling system any favours,dunno how true that was.

Not a lot wrong with the next few models with the buick v6,great low down torque and fuel economy,but a bit of harshness at times.

The later models with the V6 were better,as the engine evolved.

Had many Holdens over the years,the last being a 5.0L VS,SS,HSV enhanced.

Then moved on to Land Rovers....[bighmmm]

[16PMark]

The highway patrol here used to run the Turbo VL.

Someone once told me it was the front shape of the VL that didn't do the cooling system any favours,dunno how true that was.

Not a lot wrong with the next few models with the buick v6,great low down torque and fuel economy,but a bit of harshness at times.

The later models with the V6 were better,as the engine evolved.

Had many Holdens over the years,the last being a 5.0L VS,SS,HSV enhanced.

Then moved on to Land Rovers....[bighmmm]Yes, you've sparked my memory. That was also an issue, due to the the slim (miniscule) grille on the vl's.
Oh god, the memories that r now starting to come back to me.....

[scarry]

Yes, you've sparked my memory. That was also an issue, due to the the slim (miniscule) grille on the vl's.
Oh god, the memories that r now starting to come back to me.....

Now, sparking my memory....

There was some sort of height difference between the top of the motor and the top of the rad,that caused the issue.

It was extremely difficult to bleed,and air pockets used to form in the head,and it would overheat and crack,no matter how well it was bled.

This is stretching my memory.

[16PMark]

Now, sparking my memory....

There was some sort of height difference between the top of the motor and the top of the rad,that caused the issue.

It was extremely difficult to bleed,and air pockets used to form in the head,and it would overheat and crack,no matter how well it was bled.

This is stretching my memory.Yes, absolutely.
Your memory is firing on all six, as now is mine. [emoji41]
Ahh, those were the days. [emoji44][emoji849]

[rick130]

Even the VB and VC needed the bumper positioned as close to the grille as possible on the race cars or they'd overheat.
Wasn't so much of an issue on road cars.
Flogged a VC wagon unmercifully for a few years, my kart fitted perfectly in the back.

[Homestar]

Even the VB and VC needed the bumper positioned as close to the grille as possible on the race cars or they'd overheat.
Wasn't so much of an issue on road cars.
Flogged a VC wagon unmercifully for a few years, my kart fitted perfectly in the back.

Yeah, my VB V8 wagon used to overheat if I drove it above 160 for prolonged periods. Under 160 was fine. [biggrin]

[shanegtr]

Sometimes supporting an inefficient industry is good strategically in case there are world events that preclude importation for some years. It's not likely at present but things can change suddenly and unexpectedly. For the same reason we should be able to extract and process our own oil to diesel and petrol. It doesn't have to be 100%, just enough that we can manage for a while until it gets ramped up, if the need arises. Not all industries have a strategic value, but some do.

Mike
Agree, a work mate once mentioned that its a good idea to keep the production ability within the country - in the case of a major war you can re tool and produce military vehicles. Makes sense on a strategic basis to me.

[Tombie]

Agree, a work mate once mentioned that its a good idea to keep the production ability within the country - in the case of a major war you can re tool and produce military vehicles. Makes sense on a strategic basis to me.

Lots of industry was here for that reason.

Both steel works
Shipyard
Refineries
Oil production

Won’t be much use having an industry if we can’t get oil and make fuel....

[rick130]

Yeah, my VB V8 wagon used to overheat if I drove it above 160 for prolonged periods. Under 160 was fine. [biggrin]I had a 2.6:1 diff in mine so that helped at those speeds [emoji39]

I remember coming back from some big kart meet (Ballarat?) and cruising up the Hume at around 145 at 1am with a box trailer and two karts on the back, the other three occupants asleep and the police slowly passing in the fast lane [emoji15][emoji50]

I buttoned off a bit after that. [emoji23]

[Pickles2]

I had a 2.6:1 diff in mine so that helped at those speeds [emoji39]

I remember coming back from some big kart meet (Ballarat?) and cruising up the Hume at around 145 at 1am with a box trailer and two karts on the back, the other three occupants asleep and the police slowly passing in the fast lane [emoji15][emoji50]

I buttoned off a bit after that. [emoji23]
LOL!!...Those were the days!
Pickles.

[scarry]

In another life when I was an apprentice,I had a 202 HQ ute,manual.

Had it for a number of years and toured all over the countryside.

I changed the diff to a 3.08 out of a Torana,and down a big hill on the road from Moonie to St George,it would almost wind off the speedo.[bighmmm]

It was the model with miles and km/ hr on the speedo,and had the upgrade which was disc brakes on the front.

Bloody good car,easy to fix,good on fuel once the diff was changed.Had a fibreglass canopy on it for a while as well,Engle in the back,great for camping,etc.

One thing though,once the diff was changed,the GF,of the day could leave me for dead at the lights in her 186 HR auto.[bigsad]

Those were the days......

[Tins]

I had an HT Prem , 307 with the 3.08 diff ( I think I have that right, it was some time ago, I wanted the 2.78 ). I loved that car. Broke it bad though. Thing would be worth a bob these days, but then so would my 1963, first boatload, MGB. Hindsight means nothing, damn it.

[Pickles2]

I had an HT Prem , 307 with the 3.08 diff ( I think I have that right, it was some time ago, I wanted the 2.78 ). I loved that car. Broke it bad though. Thing would be worth a bob these days, but then so would my 1963, first boatload, MGB. Hindsight means nothing, damn it.
It was a long time ago & my memory's not the best, but I "think", "HT" = 308, "HK" = 307. I don't know which you had, but yes, either, these days, would be no doubt "worth a bob". MGB, not so much, maybe a bit more than what you sold for, but not in the same league as your V8 early model. I would've preferred the 3.08 diff,...2.78/2.6 whatever makes ém a bit lazy off the line, esppecially if your auto was a 2 speed powerglide.
Only, IMHO, of course, Pickles.

[V8Ian]

It was a long time ago & my memory's not the best, but I "think", "HT" = 308, "HK" = 307. I don't know which you had, but yes, either, these days, would be no doubt "worth a bob". MGB, not so much, maybe a bit more than what you sold for, but not in the same league as your V8 early model. I would've preferred the 3.08 diff,...2.78/2.6 whatever makes ém a bit lazy off the line, esppecially if your auto was a 2 speed powerglide.
Only, IMHO, of course, Pickles.
Your memory's not all bad Pickles, me ol' mate.
HK, the first Holden available with a factory V8 was offered with the Chev 307 and 327. It was superseded by the HT which introduced the Holden designed 253 and 308, the Chev 350 was also available.

[scarry]

Your memory's not all bad Pickles, me ol' mate.
HK, the first Holden available with a factory V8 was offered with the Chev 307 and 327. It was superseded by the HT which introduced the Holden designed 253 and 308, the Chev 350 was also available.

And the HK 327 was the first Holden to win the Hardie Ferodo 500,then the HT 350 won it the next year.

A few yrs later,the next Holden to win it was the Torana Xu-1,with the master at the wheel,for the complete race,no co driver.
He was actually very unlucky not to win it again the next year.

[Pickles2]

Race is pretty much to schedule on lap 40.
For "new viewers" to the televised race, important for you to take note of pit/fuel/tire stops, who's driving, main or co-driver, to see who's actually leading the race,....all involved in "strategy", which can win or lose the race,....it will come into play for each team/car as the race progresses, where towards the later stages of the race, some cars may appear to be at the front of the field when in reality they aren't because they've been skimpy on fuel stops etc to gain position,......but it will all unfold,....as time goes by!
Pickles.

[scarry]

Race is pretty much to schedule on lap 40.
For "new viewers" to the televised race, important for you to take note of pit/fuel/tire stops, who's driving, main or co-driver, to see who's actually leading the race,....all involved in "strategy", which can win or lose the race,....it will come into play for each team/car as the race progresses, where towards the later stages of the race, some cars may appear to be at the front of the field when in reality they aren't because they've been skimpy on fuel stops etc to gain position,......but it will all unfold,....as time goes by!
Pickles.

Thats why the last 2 hours or so are usually the most exciting[thumbsupbig]

[Pickles2]

Race is pretty much to schedule on lap 40.
For "new viewers" to the televised race, important for you to take note of pit/fuel/tire stops, who's driving, main or co-driver, to see who's actually leading the race,....all involved in "strategy", which can win or lose the race,....it will come into play for each team/car as the race progresses, where towards the later stages of the race, some cars may appear to be at the front of the field when in reality they aren't because they've been skimpy on fuel stops etc to gain position,......but it will all unfold,....as time goes by!
Pickles.
Posted in the wrong thread,....reposted in Bathurst thread!

[hodgo]

I left Holden when they stopped making real ones .[bawl]

I grew up with Holdens , My first two cars were a HR and a HK both new and really loved the HK but the early Commodores turned me off Holdens

[Arapiles]

I had a 2.6:1 diff in mine so that helped at those speeds [emoji39]

I remember coming back from some big kart meet (Ballarat?) and cruising up the Hume at around 145 at 1am with a box trailer and two karts on the back, the other three occupants asleep and the police slowly passing in the fast lane [emoji15][emoji50]

I buttoned off a bit after that. [emoji23]

Ballarat's not on the Hume - but you could of course have cut across to the Hume from Ballarat or gone through Melbourne.

[Tins]

It was a long time ago & my memory's not the best, but I "think", "HT" = 308, "HK" = 307. I don't know which you had, but yes, either, these days, would be no doubt "worth a bob". MGB, not so much, maybe a bit more than what you sold for, but not in the same league as your V8 early model. I would've preferred the 3.08 diff,...2.78/2.6 whatever makes ém a bit lazy off the line, esppecially if your auto was a 2 speed powerglide.
Only, IMHO, of course, Pickles.

Definitely HT. Definitely the 307. HTs came with the 161, 186, 253, 307, 308 and 350. I don't think they had the 327, as the 350 was used instead. They also came with the 3 speed and 4 speed manual and the two speed Powerglide. The Trimatic didn't arrive until the HG.

I guess you could call the HT a transition model, because that's what it was. You and Ian need to do some research.

Oh, an original, 1963 MGB will beat any HT, except maybe for the Monaro, at auction worldwide. They are extremely rare. 1964 not so much.

[Tins]

Your memory's not all bad Pickles, me ol' mate.
HK, the first Holden available with a factory V8 was offered with the Chev 307 and 327. It was superseded by the HT which introduced the Holden designed 253 and 308, the Chev 350 was also available..

The 307 was also available in the HT, Ian, especially in the earlier cars. The 327 was replaced by the 350, also a Chev engine. Holden couldn't keep up with demand for the Aussie V8s. This info is freely available if you look. My car was a 307 HT Powerglide.

[V8Ian]

.

The 307 was also available in the HT, Ian, especially in the earlier cars. The 327 was replaced by the 350, also a Chev engine. Holden couldn't keep up with demand for the Aussie V8s. This info is freely available if you look. My car was a 307 HT Powerglide.
Yep, just looked it up, the existing stocks of 307s were run out in early models except for the Brougham, which only offered the 308.

[Tins]

Yep, just looked it up, the existing stocks of 307s were run out in early models except for the Brougham, which only offered the 308.

Just makes it worse that I don't still have it. I have a pic somewhere though.

[Homestar]

Well who’d have thunk that Holden would continue down the toilet - pretty much everyone I think and the Butt has pulled the pin after only a short stay to top up his retirement fund...

Holden boss Dave Buttner resigns after sales slump (https://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/motoring/motoring-news/holden-boss-dave-buttner-resigns-after-sales-slump/news-story/be7039faf8134402ead60e41e6c8eeec)

Mr Cadogan has quite a bit to say about it on his YouTube channel - none of which is repeatable here... 😆

[grey_ghost]

Lol - I read that yesterday and thought about posting the article here.

But work is quite busy and Holden are currently reaping what they have sowed! [emoji1303][emoji3]

[grey_ghost]

Out in today's news - Holden has axed the Commodore and Astra, and will concentrate on SUV's and Utes....

I wonder what that means for the "supercar" racing at Bathurst? [bigrolf][tonguewink][wink11][thumbsupbig]

[Pickles2]

Out in today's news - Holden has axed the Commodore and Astra, and will concentrate on SUV's and Utes....

I wonder what that means for the "supercar" racing at Bathurst? [bigrolf][tonguewink][wink11][thumbsupbig]
No worries, ......, until the end of the 2021 season.
Pickles.

[cripesamighty]

Ute racing anyone...?

[bsperka]

As the saying goes "the customer is always right". Little demand killed off the Dunnydore. (As an aside dunnysore, dunnydire both came up as typos on my phone).

[pop058]

Ute racing anyone...?

There is also some changes coming to the race format/vehicles for the utes next years as well.

[Eevo]

maybe they can race using EVs

[pop058]

maybe they can race using EVs

Already a well established EV open wheel category (Formula E)

[Eevo]

Already a well established EV open wheel category (Formula E)

i did not know that.

[Pickles2]

There is also some changes coming to the race format/vehicles for the utes next years as well.
Yep, V8 petrol Crate mtrs in them next year.
Pickles.

[16PMark]

Yep, V8 petrol Crate mtrs in them next year.
Pickles.Purely coz Diesel is now the enemy!
What a crock! Absolutely nothing wrong with the way the "Superutes" are powered. No problems since inception. But Diesel just isn't fashionable these days.
What a load of cods wallop!
(not you Pickles, the "rules" that implement this Shyte!)

[grey_ghost]

Yep, V8 petrol Crate mtrs in them next year.
Pickles.

So the category has really learnt it’s lesson? Race a vehicle that nobody can purchase in a showroom? Ahem

[101RRS]

As the saying goes "the customer is always right". Little demand killed off the Dunnydore. (As an aside dunnysore, dunnydire both came up as typos on my phone).

As if General Motors did not know that was going to happen - the Holden Insignia was sold for maybe two years along side the old Commodore before the Insignia Badges were taken off and Commodore badges put on. It was a sales dud as the Insignia in Aust so did GM really think sales would be any better with Commodore badges on it - doh.

Garry

[Pickles2]

Purely coz Diesel is now the enemy!
What a crock! Absolutely nothing wrong with the way the "Superutes" are powered. No problems since inception. But Diesel just isn't fashionable these days.
What a load of cods wallop!
(not you Pickles, the "rules" that implement this Shyte!)
I agree with you, People waffle, "rave on" about racing stuff ya can buy from the showroom, then they don't like that either,....I actually thought the diesel utes were ok, but for sure they would've been better with a few more out there,...we'll see what they're like with petrol V8s in 'em?
Pickles.

[16PMark]

I agree with you, People waffle, "rave on" about racing stuff ya can buy from the showroom, then they don't like that either,....I actually thought the diesel utes were ok, but for sure they would've been better with a few more out there,...we'll see what they're like with petrol V8s in 'em?
Pickles.What you said!
Nothing wrong with the diesels!
Cheaper to run in fact. But I guess that's irrelevant in a commercial world.....

I'm not religious at all, but I pray to the Motorsport gods that TCR takes off, coz at the moment, this seems like the sensible way to go racing....(I know Garry Rogers is listening) [emoji6][emoji6][emoji1783] Cheers mate. [emoji854]

(Edit, yes I did change direction a little, but we're all motorsport geeks, and youz get where I'm coming from)

[Homestar]

With the whole car industry in decline sales wise in Aus, Holden yet again lead the way and have set a new record with yet another all time low sales in November - must be hard to keep being this bad. That’s now 6 times this year they’ve managed to break this record. Their only real seller - the Colorado, is down over 15% from the same time last year. Any takers on when it sinks completely? Does it have another year to fester before the whole thing is given up as a bad idea?

[scarry]

So i wonder what they are going to race?Can't use Commodores for much longer i suppose.

Should have killed the Commodore name off couple of years ago and stopped trying to sell cars people don't want.

The only vehicle that is keeping Ford going is the Ranger,it is a massive % of their total sales in Aus.

So looks like the low lives have already moved on from hot wiring Dunny Dores.

They are getting smarter,using devices to get hold of vehicles without having to have the keys.[bighmmm]

This will be the norm soon,late model car keys/fobs will have to be kept in a metal pouch,when not in the vehicle.

[Homestar]

Yep, Commodore is on borrowed time - Chev just killed off the same vehicle in the US - not sure what they call it there but couldn’t sell them either. They stopped shipping Commodores to Aus 2 years ago and halted production of the RH drive version as Holden were (and still are) overstocked with them.

Not sure what they’ll clad the race cars in now - to be honest, I think dual cab utes would be more suitable - Ranger v Colorado - far more popular than sedans these days. Ditch the Ute racing, bring them to the main game.

[16PMark]

Yep, Commodore is on borrowed time - Chev just killed off the same vehicle in the US - not sure what they call it there but couldn’t sell them either. They stopped shipping Commodores to Aus 2 years ago and halted production of the RH drive version as Holden were (and still are) overstocked with them.

Not sure what they’ll clad the race cars in now - to be honest, I think dual cab utes would be more suitable - Ranger v Colorado - far more popular than sedans these days. Ditch the Ute racing, bring them to the main game.Why don't we go back to the way it used to be....
Oh look, there's a car for sale, it's made by a particular manufacturer.....
Let's race!!!!
Current "racing" is bull****!

[grey_ghost]

I agree with you, People waffle, "rave on" about racing stuff ya can buy from the showroom, then they don't like that either,....I actually thought the diesel utes were ok, but for sure they would've been better with a few more out there,...we'll see what they're like with petrol V8s in 'em?
Pickles.

Really? Personally I loved a Nissan GTR R32 - a brilliant car. Neither Holden nor Ford could beat it, despite changing the rules multiple times to stop it. So they banned it.. And look where it got them! [biggrin]

They still make the mighty GTR...

[Pickles2]

Really? Personally I loved a Nissan GTR R32 - a brilliant car. Neither Holden nor Ford could beat it, despite changing the rules multiple times to stop it. So they banned it.. And look where it got them! [biggrin]

They still make the mighty GTR...
"Brilliant/mighty" car?....Definitely,...but definitely not for its class in Aussie motorsport at the time.
That car, in its day, was UNBEATABLE. We "nobbled" it as much as we could!!!...and it was still unbeatable, and the fans didn't like it.
In addition, that car, believe it or not, had very little development. In fact, it was so good, that no-one wanted to race against it,..I remember a race at Sandown where there were only NINE cars on the grid!
Whilst Gibson's GTSRs were the fastest in the world, if they could've been the subject of further development, they would wipe the floor with any current supercar,.....GTSR=VERY complex, and very fast machine, some stuff built into them wouldn't be out of place in F1! Traction control, AWD, & all sorts of electronic "aids" unseen in Aussie tin tops,...not even now!...Like I said, it'd be capable of beating any current vehicle in Supercars.
I admired the technology behind them, but I'm old,....I just like my V8s,....Group A, Group C, V8 Supercars etc etc, just me, I love my V8s, and so do a lot of Aussies,....that's why the 888 Red Bull turbo 6 was discontinued,.....it was going to be just as fast, maybe faster than a V8, but according to several surveys, it was never gonna cut it with the fans.
So, yep,`I do LOVE my V8s, in whatever form they are raced in Aussie, & yes I do realize that my sentiments are not shared by many on this forum.
How will Holden be represented in the future?,...Wouldn't have a clue,....some keep mentioning Camaro (to go against the Mustang),...can't see that either, the Camaro is VERY limited sales in Aussie, & by HSV, NOT Holden, so IMHO I can't see any commercial value at all for Holden to put their racing name on that in Aussie.
How will Holden be represented in Supercars after 2021?...wouldn't have a clue,....in fact at this time I have no idea what will comprise Supercars. 2L touring cars are gaining traction, ....but not for me!!.....but like I said, I'm OLD!
Of course, all IMHO, Pickles.

[Homestar]

"Brilliant/mighty" car?....Definitely,...but definitely not for its class in Aussie motorsport at the time.
That car, in its day, was UNBEATABLE. We "nobbled" it as much as we could!!!...and it was still unbeatable, and the fans didn't like it.
In addition, that car, believe it or not, had very little development. In fact, it was so good, that no-one wanted to race against it,..I remember a race at Sandown where there were only NINE cars on the grid!
Whilst Gibson's GTSRs were the fastest in the world, if they could've been the subject of further development, they would wipe the floor with any current supercar,.....GTSR=VERY complex, and very fast machine, some stuff built into them wouldn't be out of place in F1! Traction control, AWD, & all sorts of electronic "aids" unseen in Aussie tin tops,...not even now!...Like I said, it'd be capable of beating any current vehicle in Supercars.
I admired the technology behind them, but I'm old,....I just like my V8s,....Group A, Group C, V8 Supercars etc etc, just me, I love my V8s, and so do a lot of Aussies,....that's why the 888 Red Bull turbo 6 was discontinued,.....it was going to be just as fast, maybe faster than a V8, but according to several surveys, it was never gonna cut it with the fans.
So, yep,`I do LOVE my V8s, in whatever form they are raced in Aussie, & yes I do realize that my sentiments are not shared by many on this forum.
How will Holden be represented in the future?,...Wouldn't have a clue,....some keep mentioning Camaro (to go against the Mustang),...can't see that either, the Camaro is VERY limited sales in Aussie, & by HSV, NOT Holden, so IMHO I can't see any commercial value at all for Holden to put their racing name on that in Aussie.
How will Holden be represented in Supercars after 2021?...wouldn't have a clue,....in fact at this time I have no idea what will comprise Supercars. 2L touring cars are gaining traction, ....but not for me!!.....but like I said, I'm OLD!
Of course, all IMHO, Pickles.

2 litres! Yuck! I remember that sign someone had at the top of the Mountain some years back “Only Milk and Juice comes in 2 litres,” 😆

While I would be ok with a fast turboed decent capacity 6, you can’t beat the sound of a V8 and I’m probably a bit old School here as well so would like too see the bent 8 continue, but no idea what shell they’ll stick on the ‘Holdens’ in coming years - Equinox? 😆😆😆

[grey_ghost]

I'm definitely showing my age here - "win on Sunday, sell on Monday" and "run what ya brung"... In another life I did some club level motor sport - drive to the track, check the tyre pressures, tape up the head lights, put on a helmet, put a number on the door, and then go for it.... Only problem was - I never went 10/10th's because I had to drive it home! [biggrin][thumbsupbig]

[Pickles2]

I'm definitely showing my age here - "win on Sunday, sell on Monday" and "run what ya brung"... In another life I did some club level motor sport - drive to the track, check the tyre pressures, tape up the head lights, put on a helmet, put a number on the door, and then go for it.... Only problem was - I never went 10/10th's because I had to drive it home! [biggrin][thumbsupbig]
"Win on Sunday, Sell on Monday",....EXACTLY,...John Crennan is a friend of mine, and when we were talking about that He said, "Where did that go"?
Pickles.

[Eevo]

2 litres! Yuck! I remember that sign someone had at the top of the Mountain some years back “Only Milk and Juice comes in 2 litres,” 😆



and only goon comes in 5litres [bigwhistle]

[Homestar]

Well in all the excitement I nearly missed this - a week ago they said they were sticking by the dunny door but yesterday it was axed from Holdens line up...

Holden axes Commodore range to focus on SUVs and utes as sedan sales dwindle - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-12-10/holden-announces-end-of-commodore-from-2020/11786056)

So, now we really are left to wonder what she’ll they’ll use in the V8’s going forward...

And the Astra has been axed too - not many models left for them to sell - Astra was their biggest selling small car at one stage.

[Homestar]

So, that leaves Trax, Arcadia and Equinox as the only cars and the Colorado and Trailblazer. Not much of a lineup left for the Dealers to flog. That cuts over 9,000 sales out assuming current levels, so the company is well and truly on its way to being completely ****ed and disappearing for good. Can’t see Dealers managing to keep their doors open selling that line up. The cars are all dismal - we have the Equinox’s at work - Glad I drive a Hilux is all I have to say to that. It’s worse than the Craptiva if that is at all possible.

So, who’s running a book on when Holden collapses in on itself entirely and goes belly up? I’ll put a fiver on September 20, 2020... 😁

[16PMark]

So, that leaves Trax, Arcadia and Equinox as the only cars and the Colorado and Trailblazer. Not much of a lineup left for the Dealers to flog. That cuts over 9,000 sales out assuming current levels, so the company is well and truly on its way to being completely ****ed and disappearing for good. Can’t see Dealers managing to keep their doors open selling that line up. The cars are all dismal - we have the Equinox’s at work - Glad I drive a Hilux is all I have to say to that. It’s worse than the Craptiva if that is at all possible.

So, who’s running a book on when Holden collapses in on itself entirely and goes belly up? I’ll put a fiver on September 20, 2020... [emoji16]ROFL. Daewoo anyone. [emoji23][emoji1787]
Craptiva springs to mind.
Just **** off Holden! Ya done. Move on.
In any case, considering most cars these days are sharing the same same stable as the competition, it all becomes irrelevant.
What's ya fav colour?? That's what it comes down too. Oh, and of course the totally important aspect of any new car these days, is, Apple or Android.....and cup holders!
Big sad ****in sigh!

[Pickles2]

So, that leaves Trax, Arcadia and Equinox as the only cars and the Colorado and Trailblazer. Not much of a lineup left for the Dealers to flog. That cuts over 9,000 sales out assuming current levels, so the company is well and truly on its way to being completely ****ed and disappearing for good. Can’t see Dealers managing to keep their doors open selling that line up. The cars are all dismal - we have the Equinox’s at work - Glad I drive a Hilux is all I have to say to that. It’s worse than the Craptiva if that is at all possible.

So, who’s running a book on when Holden collapses in on itself entirely and goes belly up? I’ll put a fiver on September 20, 2020... 😁
Nope, not a good range at all, I get that.
But, I'm just so sorry for the Dealer guys. We were at our Dealer's today getting the GTSR serviced, and it's just like it always was with the atmosphere & the service, those guys are trying so hard, fantastic service in the service dept (actually the service dept is currently flat out!!), committed enthusiastic guys doing their best for us, & I'm VERY particular, but the "range"?...yeah yeah, I know, but I will not wear the fact that the "Commodore" is rubbish, simply because it isn't,...I've driven the VXR & the Calais Turbo, & they're OK cars,...now I know they ain't a VF, but they're just as ghood as a Camry, Hyundai, or whatever...
Anyway,...the future?....I don't know. Martin.

[101RRS]

Out in today's news - Holden has axed the Commodore and Astra, and will concentrate on SUV's and Utes....



Well in all the excitement I nearly missed this

Gav, Gav, Gav
Hmmm maybe you should have read your ole mates post from yesterday [thumbsupbig] - that is what prompted all the recent discussion [bighmmm].

[Homestar]

Thought I did, must have missed that - GG will be rolling his eyes and shaking his head... 😁

[3toes]

The base cars for the Astra and ‘Commodore’ were sold off to Peugeot. GM no longer has right to sell them so they are removed from product line up. Not unexpected.

[rick130]

The base cars for the Astra and ‘Commodore’ were sold off to Peugeot. GM no longer has right to sell them so they are removed from product line up. Not unexpected.Not so much lost the right to sell, probably more to the point, why send money outside the parent group for minimal return?