New 12v setup

[Graekynn]

G'day brainstrust,

I've decided to tackle my first 12v setup and for the purposes of this exercise you can assume that I'm relatively handy, not overly stupid and have a desire for a professional result. This setup will include an auxiliary battery charged by a redarc manager 30 mainly to run a fridge, lighting and mobile device/charging. There will also be other devices I want to install including light bar, CB, compressor, e-locker. Some searching has answered a few questions, but still have a few questions around best practise that I hope will safe me from any rookie mistakes:

- What are the best earth points to be found in the back of a 90, or would you recommend grounding everything back to the starting battery negative (a lot of extra copper)

- Should I use the same grounding point for all devices?

- What tools would you say are necessary to make good quality connections with large and small gauge wires? i.e. type of crimpers, connectors, heat shrink insulation?

- Would you recommend a distribution box for ease of access connecting new devices and if so is there a location to tap into the factory fusebox with an appropriate capacity?

- Where would you mount the distribution box?

- What is the best way to route wiring out from under the drivers seat? I try to avoid damaging grommets wherever possible, would you bother drilling a new hole and grommet that?

- I plan to create a panel in the car that will house the redarc display as well as things like switches, fuse block(s) and circuit breakers. What components in your experience are necessary to be easily accessible, and what is fine to be hidden? (I'm not interested in mounting components just for show)

Many thanks!

[Rolly]

Hi,

I may not be as handy as you so I chose to go with a Traxide kit(also upgraded the wiring loom for headlights) for my Puma Defender. Works a treat and being isolated no need worry about aux draining main!
I also installed the cubby box underneath the centre storage box, this enabled the fitting of an additional distribution box for all accessories.
Earthwise I went back to Starting battery. I also ran a lead(with Anderson plug) to rear of vehicle enabling battery charger to be connected without having to go through the malarky of removing pax seat and accessing battery compartment.

Hope this helps.

Rolly

[travelrover]

Hi,


I also installed the cubby box underneath the centre storage box, this enabled the fitting of an additional distribution box for all accessories.


Hope this helps.

Rolly

Hi Rolly

Did you make cubby box yourself or was it an aftermarket item? If you made it can you share dimensions, materials etc? I have a sheet of marine ply sitting in the shed for this purpose just haven’t got around to it yet ;-)

Cheers - Simon

[jon3950]

I second the box under the centre console idea. I went for an Ex-Box, but there are a few alternatives out there.

I have a single power feed from the aux battery into the Ex-Box, running through a circuit breaker. From there power is distributed to the back for the fridge, an Anderson plug out the back and to the front as well. Everything is then earthed back via the box and down to the same earth point as the batteries. There is also room for switches on the front of the Ex-Box. It's quite a simple set-up and easily removeable if I need to work on it or access the transmission underneath it. No standard wiring was harmed during its construction.

Some photos and more info in my build thread:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/members-rides/236135-alasdair-my16-keswick-110-a-23.html#post2906069

Cheers,
Jon

[travelrover]

Thanks Jon

Appreciate this..

[Rolly]

Yes,mine is also the Ex-box.

[plusnq]

My 130 setup is based on Jon’s with the ex box and works great.

[Graekynn]

Thanks for the feedback re: cubby box. I wont be doing that particular mod though, so for my intended setup the brains of my car will stay under the drivers seat. Which means a distribution box would be fitted in there as well.

[Rolly]

Whilst the brains under the pax seat appears fairly water resistant there is in fact a hole at the very rear. Any water crossing that touches the underside of the pax seat area enables the ingress of water, that’s why many of us have put the ‘Brains’ on top of the drive tunnel within the Ex-box.

[drivesafe]

Hi Graekynn, could you post up what you actually have, or what you think you will be purchasing.


Also, can you post up how you intend to use your setup. EG, weekends away, or a long trip around Australia and so on?


Are you planning on stopping in one place at a time for long periods of free camping or moving camp every day or so?


These different uses can be addressed with different setups.


I am pretty sure I can give you some options that are much cheaper to setup and will give you far, FAR better results.

[Graekynn]

Hi Graekynn, could you post up what you actually have, or what you think you will be purchasing.


Also, can you post up how you intend to use your setup. EG, weekends away, or a long trip around Australia and so on?


Are you planning on stopping in one place at a time for long periods of free camping or moving camp every day or so?


These different uses can be addressed with different setups.


I am pretty sure I can give you some options that are much cheaper to setup and will give you far, FAR better results.


At the moment I have the Manager 30 BMS, a fridge and a 150w monocrystalline solar panel. I'm currently designing a drawer/storage system and am still working out where I want things to live. The best description I can give at this stage is that it will be a single drawer system with a flat floor about the height of the wheel 'arches'. An engel 60L fridge, and possibly the auxiliary battery, will be located behind the passenger seat and will be accessed via the gullwing. The drivers side will be a little more complex as I'm planning to have 2 storage boxes in front of the gullwing, and behind that a vertical bay to store the solar panel. Somewhere in this area, perhaps just inside the rear door I will be mounting all the necessary 12v stuff (manager 30 and control panel, fuses, switches for fridge/lighting etc.).

At the moment I get away for a few days at a time to semi-remote areas, but am looking to extend that more and more as time goes on. Basically would like a setup that can cater for the longer trips (a week or so between towns) as well as the long weekend stuff. My trips lately have been a tear down each day and move to a new location, but want the capacity to stay somewhere for atleast a few days if I wanted.

[Tombie]

Wow!!! for the price of the Manager30 you could have done the entire system [bigsmile]

[Graekynn]

Wow!!! for the price of the Manager30 you could have done the entire system [bigsmile]

Agreed they're at the higher end of the scale, but I got it for a really good price. It also future proofs me for if I decide to tow a camper trailer and end up with multiple batteries etc.

[drivesafe]

Hi again Greakynn, what size battery do you have now, and how large a battery capacity are you considering?

[Graekynn]

I haven't sourced a battery as yet as I'm still figuring out how much space I have for it. Was planning on starting with ~100Ah and see how long that lasts me. Main power users are the fridge (reported 0.5 to 4.2A load), mobile device charging i.e. phones and tablet and LED strip lighting for awning, tent and interior of car.

[drivesafe]

Hi Graekynn, and the following is just a SUGGESTION.


Because you have a Defender, you will have at least ( from memory ) a 110 amps alternator, and this can give you some pretty fast recharging capabilities.


Again, this is just a suggestion. If you hold off installing the BMS, and if you used one of my DT90 isolators, your would cover most of what you need, for a lot less outlay.


You could mount an Optima D34 Yellowtop 55Ah battery under the seat, in with your cranking battery. You can also fit the DT90 isolator there as well and this will give you a total usable battery capacity of around 75 to 80Ah.


This for a start would be a big space saver yet this setup would give you around the same amount of usable battery capacity that a 100Ah battery in the rear would give you.


The major difference is that if you used the 80Ah available with a 100Ah battery and use that 30 amp DC/DC unit to recharge the 100Ah battery, you would need to drive constantly for about 3.5 to 4 hours to get the 100Ah battery back up around 95% SoC. Also note, if you are running a fridge off the battery being charged by a DC/DC device, your drive time will need to be even longer.


Whereas with the combination of your cranking battery, the Optima D34 and the DT90, you could replace the same amount of used battery capacity in less that 1.5 hours of constant driving. If you are powering a fridge off the auxiliary battery, then you will only need a few MINUTES more of drive time to get the batteries up around the 95% SoC.


Next, if you are mounting your solar panel on top of your defender, while you would need a separate solar regulator, you will then have have an additional charging source while driving. You actually loose this additional charging source when using any DC/DC device.


With a DT90 setup, you will need to get a separate 240vac battery charger, but this would best be a 5 to 10 amp battery charger, not a 30 amp charger. A smaller charger is far better for your batteries.


Also, with a DT90 setup, when you are stopped and using either ( or both at the same time ) the solar or the battery charger, you can be charging both batteries at the same time. With a DC/DC devise, you are limited to one or the other power source and most will not charge your cranking battery.


Another major advantage of the DT90 is that it not only protects your cranking battery, which a DC/DC device also does if wired correctly, but the DT90 also protects your auxiliary battery from being over discharged and damaged, something DC/DC devices can not do.


The primary advantage here is that your Defender has a good sized alternator and its size means there is no advantage to using any for of DC/DC device, and these devices will actually retard your recharging capability in a number of ways.


BTW, you say the DC/DC device will further proof, you if you get a camper trailer. It unfortunately does not. You will actually need to either move your existing DC/DC unit to your trailer, or buy a second one specifically for the trailer.


You can not have a DC/DC device mounted in your vehicle and use it to charge a battery in a camper trailer or caravan. A DC/DC device MUST BE located as close as possible to the battery it is charging.


There is lots of glossy hype about what DC/DC devices can do, but the problem is the sellers of these devices deliberately omit the fundamental information required to see if these devices will be of any form of advantage or just an expensive way of undermining what the average alternator can do by itself.


Graekynn, for a fraction of the cost of one of those devices, you could have a far superior setup.

[Graekynn]

Some interesting points there, Can you PM me some of the details, or a link to the kit you're referring to? Cheers

[drivesafe]

Hi Graekynn, I have a number of dual battery kits for Defenders, but when I started rebuilding my website 18 or so months ago, I didn't put them and a lot of other info up.

It is way overdue that I put them up so I will try to do so over the weekend, but if you would like to discuss them sooner, please feel free to phone me at any time.

[Tote]

Hi, a couple of lessons from my 130 puma, I have an overhead console with my CB in it and have relocated my electricals from under the drivers seat to a Mulgo Ex Box under the console.

Running cables from the dash to the rest of the vehicle is a bugger of a job, particularly to the ExBox or under the drivers seat. If you need to do it, run multi core cables so that you only need to do it once. The same applies to wiring that travels to the roof.

I put the main 12 volt components such as the traxide dual battery setup in the battery compartment under the passengers seat.

The cables from the roof can be neatly hidden under the plastic covers on the A pillar and routed behind the dash from there.

I put a fuse block behind the dash as a distribution point for 12 volt supply to future installations with a couple of the cores to the overhead console supplied from that block as well

There is also a fuse block in the Ex Box for 12 supply as well.

Regards,
Tote

[drivesafe]

Hi, a couple of lessons from my 130 puma, I have an overhead console with my CB in it and have relocated my electricals from under the drivers seat to a Mulgo Ex Box under the console.

Running cables from the dash to the rest of the vehicle is a bugger of a job, particularly to the ExBox or under the drivers seat. If you need to do it, run multi core cables so that you only need to do it once. The same applies to wiring that travels to the roof.

I put the main 12 volt components such as the traxide dual battery setup in the battery compartment under the passengers seat.

The cables from the roof can be neatly hidden under the plastic covers on the A pillar and routed behind the dash from there.

I put a fuse block behind the dash as a distribution point for 12 volt supply to future installations with a couple of the cores to the overhead console supplied from that block as well

There is also a fuse block in the Ex Box for 12 supply as well.

Regards,
Tote
Great writeup Tote, would you by any chance have photos to go along with it?

[PWat]

On my TD5 I have a second battery squeezed into the battery box under the passenger seat - they are very snug and held in place by a few bits of wood with bit of old inner-tube providing back-up insulation to prevent shorts to the box cover.

I forget what size the battery is. The battery is charged from the alternator when the engine is running (via a voltage-sensitive relay) and can run our thermo-electric fridge and a few LED lights for a couple of nights.

The house battery runs hard-wired USB chargers, external lights, radio, fridge and there is an Anderson connection on the tray. Wiring the radio was a bit fiddly because I want it to turn on/off with the car and auto-dim when the lights turn on etc as normal, but also be usable when the car is off. (This used up 3 relays!)

I have built my own cubby-box that has 3 levels - 2 for storage and the bottom one for the electrics. (See pictures.) I'm quite tall so I made it higher and also made bits for my coffee and assorted pens & glasses. The wiring is a bit messy and not (yet) well labelled, but I know what it all does! Some of the wiring is for additional reversing lights and front-spots that run off the main battery (and also require relays to avoid overloading etc).

Handy hints:

Buy switches, relays, fuse blocks, USB chargers etc are super-cheap on eBay for about a third of the cost of Jaycar.
I have run multi-core cable to the dash and the tray. This is heaps easier than running another cable every time you need something else.
I run a single earth connection through the multicore to make wiring switches etc easier. For high-current devices I also earth locally.
Label every cable as you go!


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[PWat]

- What is the best way to route wiring out from under the drivers seat? I try to avoid damaging grommets wherever possible, would you bother drilling a new hole and grommet that?



I have a TD5 with the engine's computer brain under the drivers seat, and so I consider that area to be out-of-bounds for any modifications. I just don't want to break down in the middle of nowhere because I've allowed dust/water/termites/etc into the ECU.

[W&KO]

I’m a fan of leaving the battery space under the seat less cluttered with just the starter battery and having the AUX elsewhere.

I haven’t bothered with a DC-DC or fancy BMS. and lean towards more solar. Charge everything (aux, laptop and devices) during the day leaving the fridge and lights as the only load at night.

I have the following which works well

- 110 aux battery
- Basic redarc isolator, may upgrade to the dual sensing unit
- Victron 75/15 regulator
- 2 x 150w semi flex solar panels fixed to the roof
- 1 x 120w solar blanket tucked away for times of need

This runs a 60L fridge, a couple of LED lights and charges iPad and phones....even get the odd meal out of the 12v oven while stationary.

Good luck with it all.....report back with what you settle on.

[PWat]

Running cables from the dash to the rest of the vehicle is a bugger of a job, particularly to the ExBox or under the drivers seat. If you need to do it, run multi core cables so that you only need to do it once. The same applies to wiring that travels to the roof.


Absolutely agree - multicore marketed as being for trailer wiring is great for this.

[Graekynn]

Absolutely agree - multicore marketed as being for trailer wiring is great for this.

Thats exactly the kind of time/effort saving ideas im looking for [smilebigeye]

This may be more pointed towards puma owners but whats the best way to get wiring from under seat to engine bay? Or under seat to dash for that matter?

[PWat]

This may be more pointed towards puma owners but whats the best way to get wiring from under seat to engine bay? Or under seat to dash for that matter?

On my TD5:

Battery box to engine bay [should be the same on a Puma]: I use holes (installed by the previous owner) to the space under the cubby box (ie, above the rear prop shaft) and then run along the LH chassis rail. (I avoid the RH chassis rail because that's where the fuel lines are.) Cables ties are awesome and cheap.




Battery box to dash [may be different with a Puma dash]: hole in front of the battery box and then under the carpet to the fuse/relay 'box'. There is a cable channel up to the back of the dash. To access: disconnect battery; unbolt fuse box; remove bottom of dash; feed a stiff guide wire up; drag cable through; reassemble; analyse where left-over screws were supposed to go. (Alternately you could go via the engine bay and then go through an existing grommet into the back of the dash.)

[Tombie]

I have a TD5 with the engine's computer brain under the drivers seat, and so I consider that area to be out-of-bounds for any modifications. I just don't want to break down in the middle of nowhere because I've allowed dust/water/termites/etc into the ECU.

That seat box leaks like a colander. [emoji6]

[drivesafe]

Hi Graekynn and sorry for the delay, the DEFENDER Dual Battery kit details are now up on my website.

NOTE, as with all of my kits, if a modified version is required, it can be done.

[Tote]

As requested, a couple of photos,

The magical grommet that provides access to the back of the dash from the engine bay and underneath, pictured are the stop light feed feed and brake actuator wire
154979

The fuse panel that hides behind the passenger side dash, from memory it currently supplies +12v unswitched to the brake controller and a couple of feeds up to the console

154980

The routing up to the console from behind the dash

154981

The contents of my ExBox - the fuse panel is at the front, under the Alpine sub controller, you can see a couple of empty fuse places.

154982

Under the passenger seat, the solenoid is an enable for the winch and the Traxide controller output goes back to the tray where there is an Anderson connector for the pod with the deep cycle battery in it. I have used the output from the Anderson plug to run an orange beacon when towing machinery and also to power a diesel tank as well.

154983

Regards,
Tote