Honda lashes out at " disappointing " mandatory roll bars for quad bikes

[bob10]

16 deaths a year should be enough to justify a roll bar.


Honda lashes out over 'disappointing' mandatory roll bar protection for quad bikes - Politics - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-10-10/government-regulates-quad-bike-roll-protection/11588992?utm_source=sfmc&utm_medium=email&utm_content=&utm_campaign=%5bnews_sfmc_rural_df_!n1%5d%3a8940&user_id=c17365ab07572ed90614d245ada5ad675f6bc00189 fa766123c70d76d1d7cddf&WT.tsrc=email&WT.mc_id=Email%7c%5bnews_sfmc_rural_df_!n1%5d%7c89 40RuralMail_ArticleLink)

[Slunnie]

Call their bluff. I cant believe Honda are so against improving safety. I've they want to withdraw then let them... but someone else will fill the hole and make the money, so they wont go.

Next they will be asking for seatbelts to be removed, but mandate training.... oh, that happens and people still have accidents.... accident, meaning not on purpose.

[Bigbjorn]

16 deaths a year should be enough to justify a roll bar.


Honda lashes out over 'disappointing' mandatory roll bar protection for quad bikes - Politics - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-10-10/government-regulates-quad-bike-roll-protection/11588992?utm_source=sfmc&utm_medium=email&utm_content=&utm_campaign=%5bnews_sfmc_rural_df_!n1%5d%3a8940&user_id=c17365ab07572ed90614d245ada5ad675f6bc00189 fa766123c70d76d1d7cddf&WT.tsrc=email&WT.mc_id=Email%7c%5bnews_sfmc_rural_df_!n1%5d%7c89 40RuralMail_ArticleLink)

I am surprised that roll over protection structures on quads and trikes were not compulsory years ago along with three point belts and helmets. These are terribly dangerous unstable vehicles used the way they are on rough terrain particularly on slopes.

[Gav 110]

Marketing ploy by Honda

Tell everyone they’ve got 2 years to buy a Honda quad
Sales go up over the next 2 years ( or until Honda succumbs )

If they do stop selling them I’m sure they can be imported from our kiwi neighbours fairly easily

[3toes]

Think we heard the same from tractor manufactures a few years ago how many actually left the market?

Is Honda concerned that this will be the first market to require their fitment and so others will no doubt follow forcing them to redesign the machines?

If the death and injury rate is at this level and some kind of safety devise is not fitted will health and safety and their close friends in the insurance industry make for a defector ban due to injury levels?

Is Honda industrial products making a profit and are they looking for an excuse to hike prices/exit market?

[rick130]

I am surprised that roll over protection structures on quads and trikes were not compulsory years ago along with three point belts and helmets. These are terribly dangerous unstable vehicles used the way they are on rough terrain particularly on slopes.When I was still living in the Upper Hunter amongst the thoroughbred studs, all staff had to wear helmets on quads.
It was a WHS imperative.

[shanegtr]

Whats next, training wheels for 2 wheel motorbikes...[bighmmm]

[Bigbjorn]

Think we heard the same from tractor manufactures a few years ago how many actually left the market?



I remember when NSW mandated roll bars on ag. tractors and Qld. did not. Northern NSW farmers would cross the border to buy a tractor to save the miserable few hundred bucks that the roll bar added to the price.

[bob10]

I think there should be an age limit on quad bikes, say 16 and over. A 7 year old was killed on a small quad at Barellan, in the Riverina. Far too young . An age limit, and safety course.

[DoubleChevron]

I think there should be an age limit on quad bikes, say 16 and over. A 7 year old was killed on a small quad at Barellan, in the Riverina. Far too young . An age limit, and safety course.

those tiny quads are too fast. They should simply be limited to walking pace. Kids need to have fun, but what sort of insane adult gives a 7year old something capable of high speed [bigsad]

[bob10]

those tiny quads are too fast. They should simply be limited to walking pace. Kids need to have fun, but what sort of insane adult gives a 7year old something capable of high speed [bigsad]

I agree. No one wants a nanny state situation, but if adults aren't going to be responsible, they should be charged with an offence if they allow a minor to take charge of a quad, and get injured, or worse. And if said adult is drunk, or under the influence of drugs, they should charged as such.

[crash]

I think Yamaha has said the same thing.
I wish I could find the article I read a few months back. One of the reasons Honda is so up in arms about putting "roll bars" onto quads is the safety benefit was based on very little research and more based on political knee jerk reaction. Some of the designs of the roll bars made the quads even more top heavy and the risk of roll over was proven to increase. Honda believes that their was greater risk of injury if the quad had a roll bar VS without.
Some of the designs also take away their original usability.

The regulators have stopped the manufacturing of certain types of spray tanks that were designed to go onto the rear rack as it was proven that it changed the stability and steering dynamics.

So I can understand why the manufactures are up in arms to be able to design a safe and effective roll bar system that will be fit for purpose without affecting the original design functionality. There would be countless hours of R&D by the manufactures. Would it be worth it for the limited numbers that are sold in Australia where up to date no other country wants them to have them.
does not matter what they come up with their will ALWAYS be deaths contributed to them.
Prime example - has Australian road deaths been SIGNIFICANTLY reduced with all of the road safety designs and improved safety features on todays cars - NO.

My 250 quad has warning signs for not to be used by under 16 year olds.

Quads (and 3 wheelers and snowmobiles) all have a particular riding technique - if you get this down pat they are a lot of fun to ride. Quads are heavy and can be unsettled very easily.
A lot of people think they are "safe" because they have 4 wheels and will put under aged riders on them. Now I ask who would buy their 12year old or younger a 250cc 2 wheeled motorcycle as their first bike- I can not think of any but are more than happy to put their 12 year old or younger on a 500cc quad.

[Tote]

What about the wringing of hands over injuries caused to teenage girls by horses. In my direct experience I know of two broken backs and a badly broken leg yet there is no outcry about the death toll which seems to be largely unpublished.
There was some publicity recently over the eventing deaths of a couple of girls but these were organised competition events , not recreational riding which relates to the incidents I am familiar with.

All full size quads are plated as 16 years and over and have been for as long as I can remember. The tragic incident alluded to above involved a small "kids" quad and could have just as easily occurred on a peewee 50 or similar.

On the quad bike front I can see that there may be benefits to having roll devices and remember the same outcry over tractor ROPS. Most tractors have them now (there are exclusions where a ROPS would limit usefulness such as in orchards) but they were largely a success. I'm not sure why the manufacturers are so against them ,probably because we are the only country that has a big enough nanny state to demand them and that if we had them it may create a precedent for other markets to sue over accidents where a protection device is not fitted.

I dispute claims that quads are inherently unstable, how can you say this in comparison to a motorbike that only has 2 wheels? There is definitely a technique to riding them and just like a 500cc bike if you push it to the limit you will come unstuck. We use helmets on the farm for the quads and they perform a task that could not be replaced by a side by side as many seem to suggest. Jobs such as mustering stock are not able to be done in a glorified golf cart (or a 4wd)

Regards,
Tote

[Tote]

Whats next, training wheels for 2 wheel motorbikes...[bighmmm]

But that would make them a quad (three wheels at the back and one at the front) [bigsad]

Regards,
Tote

[Arapiles]

It should’ve been a requirement years ago - quads are incredibly dangerous. The issue with them is that by dint of their design their centre of gravity is high, and they also don’t lean when turning, so over they go.

BTW, about 40 years ago Honda sold a quad with a full roll-bar - the Odyssey (no, not the people-mover).

[Bigbjorn]

High centre of gravity, short wheelbase, soft flotation tyres. No wonder they trip and fall when operated on slopes.

[bob10]

Safe work Australia, Quad Bikes. EDIT . I'd be the first to admit my lack of knowledge about quad bikes, so I thought I had better find out a bit about them. And about the regulations surrounding them.


Quad bikes | Safe Work Australia (https://www.safeworkaustralia.gov.au/quad-bikes)

[shanegtr]

It should’ve been a requirement years ago - quads are incredibly dangerous. The issue with them is that by dint of their design their centre of gravity is high, and they also don’t lean when turning, so over they go.

BTW, about 40 years ago Honda sold a quad with a full roll-bar - the Odyssey (no, not the people-mover).
More of a small buggy than a quad

[101RRS]

BTW, about 40 years ago Honda sold a quad with a full roll-bar - the Odyssey (no, not the people-mover).

Yes was a light weight tube roll over protection system that would easily work on a quad and not add much weight higher up honda odyssey buggy - Google Search (https://www.google.com.au/search?q=honda+odyssey+buggy&sxsrf=ACYBGNS0nJpTjYXhIz-_k2fd9QToUMDUFA:1570842149887&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=OsezKzln1-hmYM%253A%252CJNPhpQEga8WukM%252C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kRYV3kcF2ggY-rA66Uq-oFriGlxxQ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiTkt6Cw5XlAhUJILcAHbcvCWkQ9QEwC3oECAYQG g#imgrc=OsezKzln1-hmYM:)

The pics I have seen of quads with ROPS just have a heavy bar behind the seat - not a light weight bar system like the Odyssey had.

Garry

[Tote]

There are some alternatives that are more like a buggy such as the Polaris Ace https://www.polarisaustralia.com/atv-ranger/ace/ the problem with using one for mustering etc is the constant getting in and out means that the side bars and harness would not get used anyway.
Might make for some more sales of two wheel ag bikes I reckon...

I am interested in the experience that those on this thread have with quad bikes when they say that they are unstable and have a high centre of gravity. That does not match my experience and we operate two of them and I have been riding quads and trikes since our family bought a KLT200 in 1982. After all, the attributes of high centre of gravity and being unstable describe a Hilux and people still drive those[smilebigeye]

Regards,
TOTE

[V8Ian]

Roll bar, great idea, something for passengers to hang onto. [bigwhistle]

[bob10]

There are some alternatives that are more like a buggy such as the Polaris Ace Polaris Australia:ACE(R) (https://www.polarisaustralia.com/atv-ranger/ace/) the problem with using one for mustering etc is the constant getting in and out means that the side bars and harness would not get used anyway.
Might make for some more sales of two wheel ag bikes I reckon...

I am interested in the experience that those on this thread have with quad bikes when they say that they are unstable and have a high centre of gravity. That does not match my experience and we operate two of them and I have been riding quads and trikes since our family bought a KLT200 in 1982. After all, the attributes of high centre of gravity and being unstable describe a Hilux and people still drive those[smilebigeye]

Regards,
TOTE

Can't speak for myself, but Safe Work Australia has this info.

Quad bike fatalities: a snapshot


In the eight years from 1 January 2011 to 31 December 2018:



There were 128 quad bike fatalities in Australia.
About 11% (14 fatalities) were children aged 11 years of age or under and more than one‑third (43 fatalities) were adults aged 60 years and over.
Almost half (62 fatalities) were workers.
Over half (77 fatalities) of all fatalities were the result of a rollover and 78 fatalities occurred on a farm or property. Of the 128 fatalities at least 76 were due to unstable or uneven terrain, for example an incline, ditch, embankment, sand, mud.


Go to more quad bike fatality data (https://www.safeworkaustralia.gov.au/quad-bike-fatality-data).…............ [ check this out]
Quad bikes are not for all terrains or for all jobs


Quad bikes can be unstable on anything but flat terrain.



To maintain stability in difficult terrain, quad bikes need an active riding technique—shifting your body weight—that can be beyond the physical capacity of some riders as it can lead to fatigue and an inability to keep control of the bike. This is especially the case for older people and children.


Losing control of a quad bike often results in a rollover, which is the leading cause of quad bike fatalities.

[crash]

The Honda Odyssey does not belong in this conversation - totally different kettle of fish.

As Tote has said - the SxS market is different to the quad market. The SxS have seat belts and roll over protection, the cheapest ones are twice the price of a quad. Around where I live is a lot of dairy farmers and the SXS would not be suitable for the required job. If the quad was replaced by the SXS I doubt that the safety belts would be used as it would be too inconvenient for the user for the multiple times they would have to get in and out of it.



Over half (77 fatalities) of all fatalities were the result of a rollover and 78 fatalities occurred on a farm or property. Of the 128 fatalities at least 76 were due to unstable or uneven terrain, for example an incline, ditch, embankment, sand, mud.

I have nearly tipped my ride on lawnmower on more than one occasion so I guess we should be fitting ROP to them as well!

I would much rather see mandatory training on the safe use than the introduction of ROPs.

[Saitch]

The Honda Odyssey does not belong in this conversation - totally different kettle of fish.

As Tote has said - the SxS market is different to the quad market. The SxS have seat belts and roll over protection, the cheapest ones are twice the price of a quad. Around where I live is a lot of dairy farmers and the SXS would not be suitable for the required job. If the quad was replaced by the SXS I doubt that the safety belts would be used as it would be too inconvenient for the user for the multiple times they would have to get in and out of it.



Over half (77 fatalities) of all fatalities were the result of a rollover and 78 fatalities occurred on a farm or property. Of the 128 fatalities at least 76 were due to unstable or uneven terrain, for example an incline, ditch, embankment, sand, mud.

I have nearly tipped my ride on lawnmower on more than one occasion so I guess we should be fitting ROP to them as well!

I would much rather see mandatory training on the safe use than the introduction of ROPs.


My ride-on has a ROPS and is designed for what you may be trying to do with yours. Mandatory training is not going to work with 11 year old kiddies. They just wouldn't have the physical capability or reflexes to control the machine in a sticky situation.

[Arapiles]

I have nearly tipped my ride on lawnmower on more than one occasion so I guess we should be fitting ROP to them as well!


I doubt that your mower weighs the same as a quad.





I would much rather see mandatory training on the safe use than the introduction of ROPs.



When your quad rolls mandatory training won't stop you from being crushed - but a roll bar will.

I'm also not keen on yet more licensing and training when a couple of steel tubes will fix the problem.

[101RRS]

When your quad rolls mandatory training won't stop you from being crushed - but a roll bar will.

Only if you are strapped in and most cockies will not be - but my guess more kids will be strapped in so there will be a saving there.

To the other poster re the relevance of the Odyssy - it is relevant in that it had a light weight tube ROPS and that is the style that should be implemented for the quads not the proposed single hoop style being proposed for quads.

[shanegtr]

The odyssey was a different style of vehicle, I'd compare it more to the current day side by side buggies.
I do agree however that I don't think a single hoop bar will be all that effective on a quad - especially if your not strapped into anything (which is not really practical the way you ride a quad IMHO). If one tips I'll bet that most people would be likely to jump off the thing.


Does the roll over protection apply to all quads? Just wondering how the race models will deal with a ROP bar[bigrolf]

[laney]

I have riden quad bikes for well over 20 years never had a problem with them the three wheelers in my opion are just dangerous but 4 wheelers I find very stable my kids never got on one by themselves. I think roll bars would make them top heavy.

[Tins]

What about the wringing of hands over injuries caused to teenage girls by horses. In my direct experience I know of two broken backs and a badly broken leg yet there is no outcry about the death toll which seems to be largely unpublished.
There was some publicity recently over the eventing deaths of a couple of girls but these were organised competition events , not recreational riding which relates to the incidents I am familiar with.

Horses have been killing riders for millennia. They will continue to do so. Nobody is calling for bans on horseriding because horseriding is a part of nearly every culture that exists. However, I'll never get on one of the bloodyminded bag of bones ever again.

But, everybody will get in a car without a thought. Think of all the mandated safety stuff in a modern car. Would you do away with it for your kids? Serious question, but not directed at you personally.




I dispute claims that quads are inherently unstable, how can you say this in comparison to a motorbike that only has 2 wheels? There is definitely a technique to riding them and just like a 500cc bike if you push it to the limit you will come unstuck. We use helmets on the farm for the quads and they perform a task that could not be replaced by a side by side as many seem to suggest. Jobs such as mustering stock are not able to be done in a glorified golf cart (or a 4wd)

Regards,
Tote

Motorbikes, just like bicycles, have an inherent gyroscopic stability that no four wheeled vehicle has. Sure, they are dangerous, but mostly because they offer zero protection outside the ability to jump off. Any 5 year old worth their salt can master two wheels though, as the bike balances the same way the five year old does. A quad does not.

All that said, I'm not advocating one way or the other. All I'll say is that I'll treat a quad the same way I'll treat a horse. From a distance. If there's a fence between me and it so much the better. I like bikes though, but I'm now too old to bounce.

[Graeme]

I am interested in the experience that those on this thread have with quad bikes when they say that they are unstable and have a high centre of gravity. That does not match my experience and we operate two of them and I have been riding quads and trikes since our family bought a KLT200 in 1982. After all, the attributes of high centre of gravity and being unstable describe a Hilux and people still drive those[smilebigeye]

I ride my light-weight 2wd locked rear axle Suzuki 250cc quad like a 2-wheeler if I'm in a hurry, taking my weight on the pedals and throwing it around a lot. However I don't ride it flat-out and I don't let the grand-kids ride it.

My previous quad had an open diff which had its draw-backs as it lost drive if the inside rear wheel lifted but I nearly rolled the new Suzuki twice sitting on the seat and turning sharply while travelling very slowly (moving sheep). I quickly learnt not to sit on the seat when turning sharply, instead to use lots of power to spin the rear wheels to aid turning sharply.

I would hate to be constrained by the much larger SxS vehicles.

[Tote]

But, everybody will get in a car without a thought. Think of all the mandated safety stuff in a modern car. Would you do away with it for your kids? Serious question, but not directed at you personally.


Probably the wrong question to ask a bloke that lets his 16 year old daughter learn to drive in a Defender...........
[biggrin]
(and not taken personally)

Regards,
Tote

[Tins]

Probably the wrong question to ask a bloke that lets his 16 year old daughter learn to drive in a Defender...........
[biggrin]
(and not taken personally)

Regards,
Tote

Lol. I would have as well. In fact I did it, with a TE Cortina and a VH Commodore. The Deefer is probably better..... But times change, not always for the better.