Does the EAS prevent leaning in corners on road

[F4Phantom]

I read somewhere that the EAS will help keep the car level in corners by pumping up the outer corner while in the corner. I was in some on road corners today and the car handled fairly well, does anyone know if the EAS can react quick enough to add to the cornering performance, and if so would this in any way be comparable to the ACE system or similar modern systems in 4x4s for road handling. I think in general the car handles better than I had expected for its age.

[Tins]

I read somewhere that the EAS will help keep the car level in corners by pumping up the outer corner while in the corner. I was in some on road corners today and the car handled fairly well, does anyone know if the EAS can react quick enough to add to the cornering performance, and if so would this in any way be comparable to the ACE system or similar modern systems in 4x4s for road handling. I think in general the car handles better than I had expected for its age.

ACE isn't really any more modern than your EAS. D2s had ACE optionally going back 20 years. I haven't experienced P38A EAS, but I'd be surprised if it didn't perform at least as well as the ACE as fitted to the Disco. And that was brilliant for the time. The first time I drove a D2 fitted with ACE I was staggered at the difference between that and my non ACE car.

One thing that might be different though. ACE is hydraulic. If a line blows things get pear shaped. Just ask Mario ( Roverlord Off Road Spares { the skidmarks in particular were spectacular. He's lucky he didn't roll it} ). Dunno if the same thing applies to the air system in the EAS.

[Graeme]

Air suspension does not transfer air from 1 side to the other. A cross-link valve in each of the front and rear valve blocks allows air to transfer from a higher pressure side to a lower pressure side under specific conditions which do not include high speed, cornering of otherwise.

CVDs (continuously variable dampers) as fitted to some vehicles such as my 2012 L322 will soften when the vehicle is driving in a straight line even at quite high speeds but will immediately be made firm for cornering.

[Tins]

Air suspension does not transfer air from 1 side to the other. A cross-link valve in each of the front and rear valve blocks allows air to transfer from a higher pressure side to a lower pressure side under specific conditions which do not include high speed, cornering of otherwise.

CVDs (continuously variable dampers) as fitted to some vehicles such as my 2012 L322 will soften when the vehicle is driving in a straight line even at quite high speeds but will immediately be made firm for cornering.

Interesting. Is that true for the OPs P38A?

[prelude]

No, the cross link connection is L322 (and up? maybe) only. Not the P38

The sensors in the P38 detect the height of each corner and average out that measurement over a set period of time so when taking a long bend it occasionally happens that the car levels itself in the corner which is quite fun because you come out all crooked :) The car readjusts of course in no time but it is certainly not real time. The system does not operate when:

you have the brakes on
you have any door open
the tail gate is open

This also means that when a brake sensor is defective, a door sensor is broken or whatever the computer does not want to do anything.

What the system does do is open the front two bags up and effectively cross connects them when you get of the brakes at a traffic light. Since the air lines are fairly thin the cross flow is limited and it seems this is purely done to do some rudimentary leveling. I am not sure why they put this feature in but it levels the car when you drive away from a stand still. It takes just a few seconds but it seems to be beneficial.

The L322 has cross connect airlines which are much larger which helps in offroading situations where you want to force the opposite wheel down with more force when you go over an obstacle. The more force on the wheel that is navigating the obstacle, the more weight presses down on that corner and more pressure is placed on the bag which trnasfers that air pressure down into the opposite bag pressing down that wheel. This way IFS can be more like a live axle and as we all know: more tyres on the ground is better!

The reason a P38 rolls less in a corner (in comparison to say a classic or other 4bee), at least on highway speeds is the fact that the car lowers itself. If you have the arnott gen III bags that helps even more since the air springs are not linear, ie. they are "stiffer" down low or in highway mode reducing body roll.

Also, no surprise, the P38 does not have CVD's

Hopes this clears a few things up!

Cheers,
-P

[Tins]

The plot thickens...

[F4Phantom]

ACE isn't really any more modern than your EAS. D2s had ACE optionally going back 20 years. I haven't experienced P38A EAS, but I'd be surprised if it didn't perform at least as well as the ACE as fitted to the Disco. And that was brilliant for the time. The first time I drove a D2 fitted with ACE I was staggered at the difference between that and my non ACE car.

One thing that might be different though. ACE is hydraulic. If a line blows things get pear shaped. Just ask Mario ( Roverlord Off Road Spares { the skidmarks in particular were spectacular. He's lucky he didn't roll it} ). Dunno if the same thing applies to the air system in the EAS.

Yes I remember the same thing when they were new, ACE was pretty amazing when the salesman put it through some corners

[F4Phantom]

No, the cross link connection is L322 (and up? maybe) only. Not the P38

The sensors in the P38 detect the height of each corner and average out that measurement over a set period of time so when taking a long bend it occasionally happens that the car levels itself in the corner which is quite fun because you come out all crooked :) The car readjusts of course in no time but it is certainly not real time. The system does not operate when:

you have the brakes on
you have any door open
the tail gate is open

This also means that when a brake sensor is defective, a door sensor is broken or whatever the computer does not want to do anything.

What the system does do is open the front two bags up and effectively cross connects them when you get of the brakes at a traffic light. Since the air lines are fairly thin the cross flow is limited and it seems this is purely done to do some rudimentary leveling. I am not sure why they put this feature in but it levels the car when you drive away from a stand still. It takes just a few seconds but it seems to be beneficial.

The L322 has cross connect airlines which are much larger which helps in offroading situations where you want to force the opposite wheel down with more force when you go over an obstacle. The more force on the wheel that is navigating the obstacle, the more weight presses down on that corner and more pressure is placed on the bag which trnasfers that air pressure down into the opposite bag pressing down that wheel. This way IFS can be more like a live axle and as we all know: more tyres on the ground is better!

The reason a P38 rolls less in a corner (in comparison to say a classic or other 4bee), at least on highway speeds is the fact that the car lowers itself. If you have the arnott gen III bags that helps even more since the air springs are not linear, ie. they are "stiffer" down low or in highway mode reducing body roll.

Also, no surprise, the P38 does not have CVD's

Hopes this clears a few things up!

Cheers,
-P


Crosslinking makes sense offroad and no sense in a corner, I suppose the P38a really is not doing much in this way. What do you mean corss linking the front at the lights? This is to level the car right and left, how would the car not be level anyway? and is this a feature where the CPU does an actual adjustment when the car comes to a stop and brakes are on?

[Tins]

Yes I remember the same thing when they were new, ACE was pretty amazing when the salesman put it through some corners

It's still amazing when you drive one after the other. It's not amazing compared to what is available now.

[prelude]

Crosslinking makes sense offroad and no sense in a corner, I suppose the P38a really is not doing much in this way. What do you mean corss linking the front at the lights? This is to level the car right and left, how would the car not be level anyway? and is this a feature where the CPU does an actual adjustment when the car comes to a stop and brakes are on?

Good question! I am not sure why it does this. All I know is that it does :)

What happens is that both front valves are opened and the compressor is stopped, which means that they are connected to each other effectively. I am not sure if you can hear your compressor running but try it out some time or keep an ear out for it. When you reach the lights after a stretch of 80kph+ road the compressor might be running, depending on the situation. Under normal circumstances with the switch in auto when your drop below 60kph for more than 30 seconds the EAS will raise the vehicle. The compressor will start running to fill the expended air back up and by the time you hit the lights and have your foot on the brake the compressor will be running. When you drive of the compressor will stop, both front valves will be open (you can sometimes actually hear the air flow a bit) and after a very short while they will close and the compressor will kick back in. I am not sure about the intake or output valve at that stage though.

I know that the valves are open because I watched what happened with my faultmate attached at some point. I do not recall the rest of the valves but pretty certain the rear is unaffected. It could be that air is dropped slightly as a precaution since accelerating makes the car tip backwards. Only the designer of the system knows I guess...

In any case, to answer your second question; no, the CPU does not level the car with your foot on the brakes. At least, it should not when operating as designed.

Cheers,
-P

[F4Phantom]

That is quite interesting. I suppose given an inpit and putput matrix of car wide sensors and full EAS control then programming for all sorts of things is possible and it could even do many more complicated things than that. It would be fun to run custom programs like auto level on an angle etc

[prelude]

Well... :)

Funny you should say that. I am actually working on a unit (arduino most likely) that will be plugged in over the existing AES. Since I sleep in a RTT on top of the vehicle I plan to make a auto-level function that measures the angle of the car, the maximum available travel on each of the corners and the best option to level the car. ie. raising one corner and dropping another to be able to sleep level.

As Lenon I believe once said though; life is what happened to me whilst I was busy making other plans, this has been on the bench for a while now but I do still intent on building it.

Cheers,
-P

[F4Phantom]

Well... :)

Funny you should say that. I am actually working on a unit (arduino most likely) that will be plugged in over the existing AES. Since I sleep in a RTT on top of the vehicle I plan to make a auto-level function that measures the angle of the car, the maximum available travel on each of the corners and the best option to level the car. ie. raising one corner and dropping another to be able to sleep level.

As Lenon I believe once said though; life is what happened to me whilst I was busy making other plans, this has been on the bench for a while now but I do still intent on building it.

Cheers,
-P

I just had a quick look, so its easy to program from a laptop or browser, a hardwired 'camp' button on the dash next to the EAS would be cool

[Tombie]

Well... :)

Funny you should say that. I am actually working on a unit (arduino most likely) that will be plugged in over the existing AES. Since I sleep in a RTT on top of the vehicle I plan to make a auto-level function that measures the angle of the car, the maximum available travel on each of the corners and the best option to level the car. ie. raising one corner and dropping another to be able to sleep level.

As Lenon I believe once said though; life is what happened to me whilst I was busy making other plans, this has been on the bench for a while now but I do still intent on building it.

Cheers,
-P

Sounds much like the "X-Lifter" unit

[rover-56]

The reason a P38 rolls less in a corner (in comparison to say a classic or other 4bee), at least on highway speeds is the fact that the car lowers itself. If you have the arnott gen III bags that helps even more since the air springs are not linear, ie. they are "stiffer" down low or in highway mode reducing body roll.

-P

Also the P38 has composite rear trailing arms locating the axle which resist twisting and limit body roll.

Terry

[F4Phantom]

Also the P38 has composite rear trailing arms locating the axle which resist twisting and limit body roll.

Terry

Interesting, any idea what they are made of?

[rover-56]

Interesting, any idea what they are made of?

The manual just says lightweight composite.
I guess just a glass (or kevlar?) reinforced resin.

Terry

[prelude]

X-lifter is not P38 compatible unfortunately but yeah, something like that :)

-P