How Reliable Is Land Rover Now?

[blackrangie]

This was posted in another thread that will get lost quickly, thought would post here as a fair bit of work over the last year went into trying to answer this question factually for myself and others.

I would see people say, LR or JLR is the most unreliable car manufacturer out, if this was from LR owners Generally speaking it was someone who doesn't own a latest Gen or Newish LR.

To me owning a new JLR vehicle and knowing how reliable the new LR vehicles seem on this forum based on trip reports etc, it just didn't make sense.

Heres what I found, the reliability argument against LR isn't really a thing anymore, ill explain why and it may surprise some that haven't seen this posted before.

I looked at data 20 years ago and Landrover have improved reliability around 180% since then and most improved over last year of any manufacturer tested in the states.

So what's with LR being towards the bottom of the US dependability list?

The whole industry has improved to a point where there are only a few problems per year between the list after 3 years of ownership. Imo its almost like the top 20 airlines for safety(I try to fly on these), they are not in any particular order as they are all considered as safe as each other.

Landrover owners of 2016 vehicles are only reporting 2 problems and Toyota 1(it seems largely off the back of corolla and prius, camry, avalon, rav4 etc and where limited toyota 4x4 models are sold (infact last time i checked the only similar toyota they sell is a petrol LC200) thats 2 problems for a whole year after 3 years of ownership!
It is reported also that most issues were infotainment related, which admittedly in 2016 was not LRs strongpoint. Would love to see the reliability comparison based only on US LR 4x4s models and US Toyota 4x4 models, but even then it wouldn't be fair due to the lack of diesels from Toyota.

In the UK Landrover reliability is pretty much on par with Toyota (where petrol and diesel etc Toyota 4x4 models are sold in a very similar way to AU, fair comparison)

A Landrover 2016 model has approx 1.42 problems over 12 months after 3 years and Toyota 1.34 (absolutely nothing between them in reliability)

In AU Toyota have been far from the pinnacle of reliability over the last few years, imo LR on the other hand has done really well the last few years avoiding any mass market issues.

I mention Toyota not to badmouth, rather becuase they are usually referred to as some holy grail of reliability and a benchmark. They are a great thing and if you own one great!

The UK is a similar selling market to ours as far as Land Rover and other major 4x4 sellers for example (Yota), the facts show there is about as much difference as identical twins between the two as far as dependability goes, which is incredible considering LR is pretty much 4x4 only, making reliability much harder to achieve then companies that mostly make 2wds.

Times have changed as anyone with a newish JLR vehicle will attest to, quality and reliability are as good as could be expected for the vehicle you actually get, which when you have a vehicle that can do much more than its competitors is much harder to achieve.

This all has taken me a very long time to get my head around over the last year but im glad i did, as LRs reliability factually is much better than many make out and for the last couple of decades has been getting better and better.


Lets keep this civil and factual, I won't be arguing with anyone, but just thought it would be a good reference point for those that have had similar thoughts or have wondered about the same questions [emoji1417]

Sources jdpower us/uk annual reports

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191016/4ce313ae2814a4d468cb7917441e3086.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191016/8ab263fed3f2dddf6a4f9ff083cc84fe.jpg

[spie]

Ignoring the names of the 'most reliable' brands on both charts - Land Rovers are roughly twice as likely to break down as the #1 manufacturer...

[Note, this does not mean that they are 'unreliable' over all nor that they have not improved vastly in recent years.]

[trout1105]

I think that the most important part about reliability is that IF something does go wrong with a vehicle (any brand) is the time and effort it takes by the owner to get that problem fixed.
If a brand doesn't have a good nation wide dealer network then the problems you have with your vehicle will take longer to be addressed and be more problematic.
A warranty isn't much good to you if your nearest dealer is 500k's away.

[Barraman]

I paid quite a bit of attention to the LR reliability issue before buying my 2105 D4 TDV6 new. Its done 155, 000 km in 4.5 years, mostly on sealed roads (but some pretty crappy ones) and about half of those km towing a 2.5 tonne 6.5M boat, and often in quite remote places.

When I bought it I took out the extended warrantee and upgraded my RACQ membership to Platinum! Have used the former on a couple of things, but never had to use the latter!

The vehcile has been maintained to what I would consider the highest possible standard - by the local LR dealer (I dont think there is a well regarded independent available). Anything that needs done gets done!

What can I say? Its certainly more expensive to maintain than the SS Commodore it replaced - but then its a completely different type of vehicle and I expect it to do things that I never expected the SS to do.

$1,000+ services take a bit of getting used to - but I get no sympathy my mates who love to travel to the NT in it to go fishing, but say I'm a w##ker for driving it instead of a Cruiser!

It is the easiest cruising, easy big boat towing, km gobbling vehicle that I have ever driven!

It hasn't missed a beat - I luv it!

Don't know what I'm going to replace it with - watching the D5 and the new Defender with interest. In the meantime I am about to spend a bunch of $$ doing everthing that needs to be dome or would be useful to do now (camshaft belt replacement due), and keep it for a bit longer.

[jonesfam]

Everything is relative.
If you personally are the one with the car that broke down, whatever the brand, then it is not reliable, even if it was the only one of the type that ever had a problem.
If you car never broke down but every other one of the type did then, to you, it is reliable.
And lets face it, we don't even think about it when you get where you are going. It is only a problem or stressful (or expensive) when you don't.
Jonesfam

[Homestar]

Question for those that may know - what is a 'Problem' on these surveys? Is it an unscheduled visit to a dealer for any reason - like a light globe, or problems that actually stop the vehicle? Being towed to a dealer?

Just interested.

Personally I think LR have improved dramatically from what I've seen over the years, but the perception is still from 20 years ago I think. Still don't think they are anywhere close to most of the Japanese or Korean brands to be honest. If they were they'd offer the same sort of Warranties rather than expecting punters to cough up for extended warranties. 3 years, 100,000KM is peanuts these days, that alone to me shows they aren't confident in their long term reliability.

5 Year, unlimited KM is the standard these days, Kia is 7 years unlimited KM, Hyundai are following suit here later this year, and others will follow. Sort of leaves LR in the dust IMO. In fact, just Googling I couldn't find another company that doesn't offer 5 years, unlimited KM in Australia, but I'm sure there are plenty, but that's the game you need to be in to get a reputation.

I bought up 100,000KM on my Hilux in 2 years, I'm sure I'm not alone in doing these sort of KM.

[Tombie]

Question for those that may know - what is a 'Problem' on these surveys? Is it an unscheduled visit to a dealer for any reason - like a light globe, or problems that actually stop the vehicle? Being towed to a dealer?

Just interested.

Personally I think LR have improved dramatically from what I've seen over the years, but the perception is still from 20 years ago I think. Still don't think they are anywhere close to most of the Japanese or Korean brands to be honest. If they were they'd offer the same sort of Warranties rather than expecting punters to cough up for extended warranties. 3 years, 100,000KM is peanuts these days, that alone to me shows they aren't confident in their long term reliability.

5 Year, unlimited KM is the standard these days, Kia is 7 years unlimited KM, Hyundai are following suit here later this year, and others will follow. Sort of leaves LR in the dust IMO. In fact, just Googling I couldn't find another company that doesn't offer 5 years, unlimited KM in Australia, but I'm sure there are plenty, but that's the game you need to be in to get a reputation.

I bought up 100,000KM on my Hilux in 2 years, I'm sure I'm not alone in doing these sort of KM.

A failed bulb, a door handle thats a little sticky, a rattle in a trim panel all count...

So a Defender could have had 200 issues that never, ever, stopped it performing but the dealer had to do some work on.

And a Pugs could have had 1 catastrophic, side of the road failure rendering it immobile and still rank the highest reliability.


Regarding vehicle warranties... Interestingly... All vehicles in Thailand (made there or sold there) only come with a 12 month warranty. Thats it....
Least popular Dual Cab in Thailand - Hilux.

[Tombie]

What chance does LR have of shifting the perception [bigsmile]
Even owners on here with vehicles 2005+ still crack on about Lucas Electrics and Oil Leaks.


Almost all the common comments - LR leak oil, electrics are crap etc... are parroted by LR owners.
Most leaks in LR I have found are a product of LR owners not bothering to repair said issues correctly (until they leak like the Exxon V).


Until a Land Cruiser is so full of rust the owner doesnt care anymore - you'll almost always see their owners repairing any small leaks or problems.
In a Landy the owner just calls it character.
I call it lazy.


None of my Landys leak grease, oil, coolant or fuel - I take pride in sorting any niggles before they become more than such.

[blackrangie]

What chance does LR have of shifting the perception [bigsmile]
Even owners on here with vehicles 2005+ still crack on about Lucas Electrics and Oil Leaks.


Almost all the common comments - LR leak oil, electrics are crap etc... are parroted by LR owners.
Most leaks in LR I have found are a product of LR owners not bothering to repair said issues correctly (until they leak like the Exxon V).


Until a Land Cruiser is so full of rust the owner doesnt care anymore - you'll almost always see their owners repairing any small leaks or problems.
In a Landy the owner just calls it character.
I call it lazy.


None of my Landys leak grease, oil, coolant or fuel - I take pride in sorting any niggles before they become more than such.

The facts above are from 2006 model year (2009) test year onwards. And point to continual improvement since then to the point they are on par with major competitors in comparable markets to AU.

[blackrangie]

Question for those that may know - what is a 'Problem' on these surveys? Is it an unscheduled visit to a dealer for any reason - like a light globe, or problems that actually stop the vehicle? Being towed to a dealer?

Just interested.



According to a US JD Power report i read most issues were infotainment related, which we all know wasnt the best in 2016. Android auto/Apple Carplay has fixed that for most manufacturers and with what they have released on the new defender along with SOTA, I can see these complaints dropping dramatically which is what they are aiming for.

[Homestar]

A failed bulb, a door handle thats a little sticky, a rattle in a trim panel all count...

So a Defender could have had 200 issues that never, ever, stopped it performing but the dealer had to do some work on.

And a Pugs could have had 1 catastrophic, side of the road failure rendering it immobile and still rank the highest reliability.


Regarding vehicle warranties... Interestingly... All vehicles in Thailand (made there or sold there) only come with a 12 month warranty. Thats it....
Least popular Dual Cab in Thailand - Hilux.

Interesting about the warranties OS. Only comparison we can make here is against what the OEM’s offer in Aus and LR fall far short. Don’t get me wrong, I think LR’s are more reliable now than they probably ever have been but we’re talking about perception and I think that has something to do with it.

And while mentioning Hilux, that would mean mine has 4 black marks against it this year, with at least one more to come. Headlight bulb 3 weeks ago (and the other side just blew as well) and 3 seperate visits about the ****ing DPF!:bat:

Won’t make this about that issue, that horse has been flogged to death enough.

[SpudHeadTed]

So those graphs are pretty much pointless then. ...it’s really all about popular perception, servicing and word of mouth.

...and the brilliance of ‘unbreakable’ as advertising. As opposed to ‘Beyond’ [bigwhistle] I mean, what does that even mean? Above and Beyond what? ...’Beyond the showroom you’re on your own because we’ve closed all our regional service agents’? It doesn’t help.

While a 5 year warranty might give new buyers confidence I’ve often found that dealer servicing is pretty inept and warranty fixes often just repeat the problem, E.g.: Defender clutch and adapter shaft to name two. Both of which are better fixed by an Indi anyway.

The Land Rover bashing that goes on in this country is mind numbingly boring and predictable. I just smile and ignore it and keep on towing hilux and cruisers out of bogs with my Defender.

As Tombie and others have said, reliability is all about proper preventative maintenance, whatever vehicle you drive. Bad luck can strike anyone no matter what the brand, but most breakdowns are due to poor vehicle maintenance.

[POD]

I would have to agree that, like so many statistics, it is all quite meaningless in the context of 4wd ownership in Australia. What people buying a 4wd vehicle with a view to remote long-distance travel are most interested in is whether the vehicle is likely to break down in a remote area and leave them stranded in a potentially life threatening situation. What these articles address is whether there is likely to be some issue that requires a visit to the dealer. Reliability will mean something very different to the person buying a compact sedan for the commute to the railway station vs someone preparing for the Canning.

[1nando]

I'll start with this as i don't want anyone thinking im a Toyota fan boy; I don't like Toyota simply because I believe they're over priced, not as reliable as people would have you believe abd because I always seem to meet a Toyota owner I can't stand on trips away..[emoji2369]

Now my points;

How many LRs would get flogged like Toyota's?

For example Prius used as taxis/uber etc, Hilux/ tundra work trucks, LC overland vehicles, hiace delivery vans, Camry taxis/ uber, 70 series work trucks....I could keep going on and on but you get my drift.

LR does not make any utilitarian vehicle anymore and most LRs get used for the school run or as a status symbol. How many LRs actually get serious milage doing uber, taxis, used as work vehciles, etc? I know many on this site use their range rovers, discos off raod but the truth is most don't.

My thinking ; of these reported faults one would assume that if a vehicle is being heavily used more often than another that the wear and tear leading to a potential fault would be greater? I assume this to be a educated guess, please correct me if I'm wrong.

Now i agree LR has improved is reliabilty but there is plenty of room for improvement. As a example needing to take the body off a d4 to change certain parts at a cost of over $10k plus depending on the part is ridiculous and stupid engineering. It's things like this that continue to feed the perception.

Again Toyota has many issues including it's flag ship 200 requiring a torque converter lock up kit amongst other issues to tow anything decent over 90kmph, otherwise the gearbox over heats. But it is still touted as Gods chariot for towing, go figure.

How relaible are LRs? Better than they used to be but not as reliable as Mitsubishi, Hyundai, Kia to name a few with plenty of room for improvement. Also things like warranty and serviceability cost need to be improved because these are also fueling the negative perception.

My 2 cents
Nando

[16PMark]

My two cents.....[emoji854]

From my observations, it seems that when LR introduced an "L" into the models, eg L318, L322 etc, was when things changed.
The electronics changed, the looms, the connectors, build quality changes etc etc...
I don't know (read, can't remember) if that was when BMW or Ford took them over.

Bearing in mind that when one of those companies took them over, changes aren't actually implemented until future models, so years of ownership v changes to various models, will be out of whack... (Timeline)

From what I've observed over the years, Landies with an "L", in the model line up, is when things changed......

Having said that, my old man has had a 95 P38HSE that has never let him down. He's in his late 70s and owned it for bloody yonks.

Seriously, apart from EAS issues, it's never stopped, or left him stranded anywhere. It just keeps going and going....
....it's still taking him to the shops as we speak! Purrs like a 4.6 kitten should. [emoji6]
It even kept up with my D2a on a recent Lake Mountain trip. (Big cheeky grin) [emoji1783]

Anywho, that's my reliability bit added.
[emoji16][emoji16]

[ATH]

We've had 5 LRs of different types.... 3 110 Defenders, 300Tdi, Td5 and a 2.4 Puma and 2 Discos, 300Tdi and now 2016 D4.
1 breakdown in the Td5 which required recovering from Newman to Perth. Not too many things on any of them actually requiring work apart from a new transfer case for the Puma under warranty.... and a new drivers seat frame.
Plenty of upgrade stuff though like new axles to all of them and a new output shaft etc. for the Puma.
BUT, our son's 97K 200 series needed, and after a long time got, a new transmission and lots of work done to the engine to solve the oil consumption work plus of course he had to upgrade the suspension so he could tow his boat. If I'd had that sort of problem with any of my vehicles I'd never have bought another Landie.
AlanH.

[gromit]

My young bloke worked at a Land Rover dealer on a pre apprenticeship recently and there were a lot of warranty issues. Also some design features that made parts replacement a major exercise. I'd have to speak to him to get more details.

Like others have mentioned, without seeing the details of the actual problems for each manufacturer the JD Power survey doesn't tell me anything. Some people like to complain, some problems will be minor, how many kilometers, was it regularly serviced etc. etc.
I'm sure a percentage of the general unwashed will believe the survey unconditionally and make their buying decisions without any real facts.

My daily driver has had a few items replaced under warranty and is about to get a part replaced just outside warranty (they organised it and told me when I picked it up from a service). The service team are a pleasure to deal with, if you have an issue you can drop in and a mechanic will come out for a drive to try to diagnose the problem. Service prices are capped.
I did have to 'train' them not to do any more than the logbook service as a lot of work I still do myself.
The car I'm running is no longer manufactured so after having 3 of them I have to now choose something else in a couple of years, probably from the same manufacturer because of the level of service I receive. If I received a JD Power survey I probably wouldn't bother as I'm looked after by the dealer.

Looking at the cost of current model Land Rovers and their service costs I'd hope that they have become more reliable..........


Colin

[Tombie]

I'll star with this as i don't want anyone thinking im a Toyota fan boy; I don't like Toyota simply because I believe they're over priced, not as reliable as people would have you believe abd because I always seem to meet a Toyota owner I can't stand on trips away..[emoji2369]

Now my points;

How many LRs would get flogged like Toyota's?

For example Prius used as taxis/uber etc, Hilux/ tundra work trucks, LC overland vehicles, hiace delivery vans, Camry taxis/ uber, 70 series work trucks....I could keep going on and on but you get my drift.

LR does not make any utilitarian vehicle anymore and most LRs get used for the school run or as a status symbol. How many LRs actually get serious milage doing uber, taxis, used as work vehciles, etc? I know many on this site use their range rovers, discos off raod but the truth is most don't.

My thinking ; of these reported faults one would assume that if a vehicle is being heavily used more often than another that the wear and tear leading to a potential fault would be greater? I assume this to be a educated guess, please correct me if I'm wrong.

Now i agree LR has improved is reliabilty but there is plenty of room for improvement. As a example needing to take the body off a d4 to change certain parts at a cost of over $10k plus depending on the part is ridiculous and stupid engineering. It's things like this that continue to feed the perception.

Again Toyota has many issues including it's flag ship 200 requiring a torque converter lock up kit amongst other issues to tow anything decent over 90kmph, otherwise the gearbox over heats. But it is still touted as Gods chariot for towing, go figure.

How relaible are LRs? Better than they used to be but not as reliable as Mitsubishi, Hyundai, Kia to name a few with plenty of room for improvement. Also things like warranty and serviceability cost need to be improved because these are also fueling the negative perception.

My 2 cents
Nando

Whomever told you it’s $10k for body off is totally full of it. It’s only 8 hours off and on taking it easy. It’s the same for a Cruiser starter motor.

For usage comparison, here only 2 of the Y62s (and there’s several) have ever seen dirt. All the rest are Mums Taxi or Dads ‘tow the boat to the marina’ jobs.

We have a significant (by population) number of D3/4/5s in town and only one doesn’t see dirt - it’s a full black pack job.

And Defenders - hell, there’s a plethora of those!

All the lads are into Rangers, and get this, Old Discovery’s.

[SpudHeadTed]

Rangers have a Defender engine [bigwhistle] and 300tdi Discos are tough and cheap.

[1nando]

Whomever told you it’s $10k for body off is totally full of it. It’s only 8 hours off and on taking it easy. It’s the same for a Cruiser starter motor.

For usage comparison, here only 2 of the Y62s (and there’s several) have ever seen dirt. All the rest are Mums Taxi or Dads ‘tow the boat to the marina’ jobs.

We have a significant (by population) number of D3/4/5s in town and only one doesn’t see dirt - it’s a full black pack job.

And Defenders - hell, there’s a plethora of those!

All the lads are into Rangers, and get this, Old Discovery’s.Tombie are you trying to convince me that LR has more working vehciles and fleet vehciles than Toyota world wide? N=1 does not equate to the whole world.

[scarry]

LR reliability,fit and finish,and attention to detail has improved massively over the last twenty years.

That’s without including the last of the Defenders.

But the vehicles have become more complicated,so there is more to fail,and maintenance costs have increased dramatically.

And,in my opinion,they still don’t have the reliability of some of the other brands.

That’s from owning and driving other brands day in,day out,not just hear say from someone or somewhere.

If other brands can do 300 000k’s,in ten years,without a single repair or niggle,surely others can as well,None of the LR,s I have had have got to 50 000k without some sort of issue,they were all bought new.

So Tombie, you are saying 4 hrs off, 4 hours on,one tech?

From what I have heard its about 6 on 6 off,if for one tech,at dealers rates,it’s still around $3000K,then add labour for the repair,parts,etc.

Huge costs,but only needed for a relatively major repair.

[blackrangie]

LR reliability,fit and finish,and attention to detail has improved massively over the last twenty years.

That’s without including the last of the Defenders.

But the vehicles have become more complicated,so there is more to fail,and maintenance costs have increased dramatically.

And,in my opinion,they still don’t have the reliability of some of the other brands.

That’s from owning and driving other brands day in,day out,not just hear say from someone or somewhere.

If other brands can do 300 000k’s,in ten years,without a single repair or niggle,surely others can as well,None of the LR,s I have had have got to 50 000k without some sort of issue,they were all bought new.

So Tombie, you are saying 4 hrs off, 4 hours on,one tech?

From what I have heard its about 6 on 6 off,if for one tech,at dealers rates,it’s still around $3000K,then add labour for the repair,parts,etc.

Huge costs,but only needed for a relatively major repair.Good points, but to be fair, i will add, Its relatively easy to get 300ks out of a van or a 2wd without an issue but very hard for any manufacturer of a proper dual purpose 4x4.

[scarry]

Good points, but to be fair, i will add, Its relatively easy to get 300ks out of a van or a 2wd without an issue but very hard for any manufacturer of a proper dual purpose 4x4.

Yes agree,100%,but you would think 150 000K would be achievable,that is without a lot of arduous work,and serviced correctly.
I am sure many that have issues,no matter what brand, are not serviced properly,on time,or whatever,or tuned,modified,etc.

Sure 2wd cars,vans,etc,don't have transfer cases,front axles,EAS,but they are pretty complicated these days,with heaps of safety features,traction control,hill start assist,stability control,etc,etc,etc.Even the later bare bones commercial vehicles have all this.

[Tombie]

Tombie are you trying to convince me that LR has more working vehciles and fleet vehciles than Toyota world wide? N=1 does not equate to the whole world.

No, you’re reading words into something that wasn’t written.

Context of N=1 doesn’t apply when there are more than 1 [emoji6]

Certainly Toyota were very aggressive with their fleet deals and there are a lot of them out there.

But a heck of a lot aren’t doing “work” - Prado was the ultimate middle income soccer mum vehicle.

Just like a significant portion of LR Defenders don’t do work either - they’re enthusiast vehicles.

Without defining Work we can’t set that standard now. All new fleet vehicles on 4 mines I’m aware of are now all Ford. Most don’t do any “work” more just transport. The working vehicles are now all LTs.

Living on reputation is all Toyota has left, once the benchmark of reliability and QAQC they are now on a level playing field. Whether others caught up or they slipped backwards is a mater of conjecture.

The world has moved on, we see it here all the time. People building amazing vehicles, every bell & whistle, making their vehicle unique to them. It’s what humans do. In reality they could go to places and do things without 3/4 of the gear - what’s the fun in that though?

[Tombie]

LR reliability,fit and finish,and attention to detail has improved massively over the last twenty years.

That’s without including the last of the Defenders.

But the vehicles have become more complicated,so there is more to fail,and maintenance costs have increased dramatically.

And,in my opinion,they still don’t have the reliability of some of the other brands.

That’s from owning and driving other brands day in,day out,not just hear say from someone or somewhere.

If other brands can do 300 000k’s,in ten years,without a single repair or niggle,surely others can as well,None of the LR,s I have had have got to 50 000k without some sort of issue,they were all bought new.

So Tombie, you are saying 4 hrs off, 4 hours on,one tech?

From what I have heard its about 6 on 6 off,if for one tech,at dealers rates,it’s still around $3000K,then add labour for the repair,parts,etc.

Huge costs,but only needed for a relatively major repair.

My dealer rate is $130/hr

They also when asked will fixed quote a job - that can work in favour.

And yes, 4 hours each way as long as the owner hasn’t done something silly with Auxiliary wiring etc.


No brand on our sites makes it 50k without a major component being replaced. That’s all the brands out here: VW, Ford, Toyota, Iveco... road going units easily do - think Managers vehicles which never go beyond parking bays.

Mud = Money.... see it all the time.

Bitumen is an easy life [emoji6]

[scarry]

My dealer rate is $130/hr

They also when asked will fixed quote a job - that can work in favour.

And yes, 4 hours each way as long as the owner hasn’t done something silly with Auxiliary wiring etc.

The dealer here is $230/hr last time i checked.

[Tombie]

Rangers have a Defender engine [bigwhistle] and 300tdi Discos are tough and cheap.

Only the baby ones... and in a Ranger they’re totally gutless, lag like crazy.

The 3.2 have plenty of poke, tune up nice and sound just like a TD5.

[Tombie]

The dealer here is $230/hr last time i checked.

Ouch!!!!

[blackrangie]

My dealer rate is $130/hr

They also when asked will fixed quote a job - that can work in favour.

And yes, 4 hours each way as long as the owner hasn’t done something silly with Auxiliary wiring etc.


No brand on our sites makes it 50k without a major component being replaced. That’s all the brands out here: VW, Ford, Toyota, Iveco... road going units easily do - think Managers vehicles which never go beyond parking bays.

Mud = Money.... see it all the time.

Bitumen is an easy life [emoji6]Thats pretty good for a dealer, my local LR independant is around that

[gromit]

A lot of warranty issues are caused by parts from external suppliers.

My current daily driver (tarmac, Australian made) had a diff replaced due to noise (Dana) a wheel bearing replaced due to noise (no idea who the supplier was) and at 110,000km is just getting a driveshaft due to grease coming from the UJ (Dana again?). Same vehicle purchased 5 years earlier had no problems !

It doesn't matter how much testing a manufacturer does they are in the hands of their component suppliers. As each year goes by the cost they will pay is less for the same component, in theory because the supplier has covered some of the production investment costs. Does this mean the supplier will cut corners....who knows.
I'm sure the manufacturer will penalise suppliers in some way when their parts fail.

If it's not parts from external suppliers you can be let down on the production line...forgot to apply Loctite, forgot to apply grease.

I visited Ford just after the AU was released, went into a meeting room on the shop floor and on the whiteboard were a list of the faults picked up as they came off the line. Some were quite serious.
I'm sure the problems were solved as the staff got used to building the new model.

Another thing learnt many years back was 'steer clear of the new model'.
Until it's been out a while the problems haven't been discovered and ironed out.
The mules are not being built at the same rate as they will when the vehicle gets into full production and more care might be taken during their build.

Colin

[1nando]

No, you’re reading words into something that wasn’t written.

Context of N=1 doesn’t apply when there are more than 1 [emoji6]

Certainly Toyota were very aggressive with their fleet deals and there are a lot of them out there.

But a heck of a lot aren’t doing “work” - Prado was the ultimate middle income soccer mum vehicle.

Just like a significant portion of LR Defenders don’t do work either - they’re enthusiast vehicles.

Without defining Work we can’t set that standard now. All new fleet vehicles on 4 mines I’m aware of are now all Ford. Most don’t do any “work” more just transport. The working vehicles are now all LTs.

Living on reputation is all Toyota has left, once the benchmark of reliability and QAQC they are now on a level playing field. Whether others caught up or they slipped backwards is a mater of conjecture.

The world has moved on, we see it here all the time. People building amazing vehicles, every bell & whistle, making their vehicle unique to them. It’s what humans do. In reality they could go to places and do things without 3/4 of the gear - what’s the fun in that though?LR does not sell any where near the amount of vehicles world wide that Toyota does. That is a fact! A lot of those Toyota's are used as taxis, mine vehicles, overland vehicles, emergency vehicles etc. E.g. every other taxi is a hybrid Camry in Sydney and Melbourne.in Africa most overland vehicles are Toyota's. That does not mean they are reliable but it means they have more models that get used harder than the majority of LRs. Your kidding your self if you can't accept this as a fact.

As a result they're bound to have more faults cause they're used more often.

LR needs to improve further if they want to be considered reliable. A good starting place would be to provide a 5 year warranty and back their product.

When comparing the vehicles In your geographical area and then generalizing the example as the norm that is most certainly a n=1 example. It's one geographical area of millions world wide

[Tombie]

Comparing Camry, Prius and Corolla is hardly an accurate measure

“Used more often” - guess not fact
“Have more issues” - guess not fact
“More Toyota’s as overland vehicles” - guess not fact

The chart is statistically balanced.... it’s per 100 vehicles.

Toyota production is fully automated - 1 **** up is every **** up. Hence the 100 series lower suspension arm weld issue etc.

So if a fully robotic line of mass produced vehicles is having issues in a ratio very similar to a low volume, bespoke manufacturer - that tends to indicate the small volume producer has pretty good QA and the robot manufacturer is slipping.

Remember Hitlers Revenge was the biggest selling vehicle in history for a while, volume doesn’t mean quality or reliability.


Here’s a poor analogy from a course we participate in regularly:

Perception and Reputation.
Toyota has a solid reputation build over 4 decades ago.
Land Rover has a poor reputation pre-2005

Toyota marketed on their reputation, and to this day people say “get an unbreakable toyota”
Land Rover develop bleeding edge technology and bring it to market first, the brand is known for its comfort and features but not its reliability.

Since 2005 it’s really neither here nor there. Quality and reliability is on par, surveys etc get it close enough to be negligible.

Then this happens:
A current LR has a problem and people go “typical LR”

A current 200 has the identical problem and people go “just a niggle”


This is a VERY real situation.


Buy one, don’t buy one. Drive a Toyota or don’t or a Y62 if it’s your thing.

Btw the Nissan reputation is rusting, rattling hulks with boring ultra solid drive lines. (Patrols). Crap utes (Navara) and boring plastic passenger cars (generic not high spec Skylines etc).

I wouldn’t say a Y62 is a rattling rust bucket, would you?

Anyhow, I’m tiring of this. I’m unsubscribing this and the other Defender thread. I forgot how ridiculous this place can be at times and I have far better things to do.

[prelude]

My 2 cents...

A mate of mine bought a 4bee somewhere in 2015. I thought he was crazy... "why on earth did you buy a tractor". We used to only drive and play with cars that had low suspension and skinny tyres. Also, japanese only :) Nowadays we have gone the opposite direction, fat tyres and high lifts.

In any case, he got into wheeling and after a bit of getting used to I thought to myself; let's buy one as well! Being a big fan of top gear and clarkson one line rang in my head immediately: " 'cause I'm in a range rover! " Turns out he said "in a land rover" when he drove a D3 or 4 up a scottish mountain, but close enough. So, I got myself a P38. One of the vehicles that gets the biggest stick in reliability talk.

Having said that: I have now owned that car since 2015 and driven it hard off road and long stretches on tarmac. I was prepared for the worst ownership experience ever but I wanted to prove the car could actually do it. (physically). Turns out that his pajero needed as much attention as my P38 did. (also 20 years old)

I found that all the 20 year old parts needed some sort of attention at one point or another, which I do not think is that weird after all those years of service. The brakes seized but with al that mudding I did not find that very odd. The wheel bearing gave up on me, again, not that weird with the amount of wading and km's done. I had the transfercase rebuilt and the engine was replaced with a rebuild unit but these were more securities for myself, not a need they still operated fine. The VCU unit locked up on me, but I guess that was unfamiliarity on my part. The list goes on :)

In short: Most of the parts on my P38 needed fixing were 20 years old AND had been neglected. The first owner maintained the vehicle by the book but the second owner was most likely someone who wanted to show of his non existing wealth by buying an expensive looking car without the money to properly maintain it. Something that happens to land rover often down here! Nearly all of the items I had to replace have stayed together quite well without breaking down again and I have done 75K since.

On my honda's (and I have driven quite a few) I never had to replace that much I admit but the newer my honda's get, the worse they are in terms of build quality. My 1992 prelude must have had the dashboard out a dozen times since I have had all sorts of gadgets in there. NONE of the clips have ever broken, all the screws still work as they should and nothing rattles in that car. The engine did 310K before I f'ed it up and used no oil whatsoever at that time and it got redlined daily. The more modern 2012 civic sport uses a litre per 6k which I think is ridiculous and my 2004 accord had all the clips on the plastic trim snap off when I tried to install something.

So, from where I am sitting the landrover experience has been a bit of a handfull in maintenance, what I expected but mostly more reliable then I expected. On the other hand the brands that I really valued have started falling behind. In my opinion it is not that other brands (like landrover) have gotten significantly more reliable, the japanse brands have started to fall behind making the gap between them less. It was to be expected of course when you can buy a citroen POS (sorry for the fans) for half the price of a japanese brand that will last just about long enough and then you simply run it to the scrappers. Who cares that it only lasts 6-10 years or so. People talk with their wallet and are not willing to pay more for a vehicle anymore so we ruined that ourselves. If the japanese brands want to keep on selling cars they have to start to cut corners somewhere because engineering and building for people that want quality is niche market that can not sustain them.

Finally, all that environmental crap is the final nail in the coffin for most cars. Pistons rings that barely touch the cylinder walls with oil that is as thin as water, EGR, DPF, PCV, you name it are killing cars quicker than ever before. Also NCAP safety scores make them heavy on the one hand and brittle on the other.

TL;DR I think, counter intuitively, reliability went up around the mid to late 90's for landrover as it did for other brands. The quality of brands has gotten better across the board but we no longer get the extremes (both good and bad) which is a shame since I for one would like the have the extremely good :)

Cheers,
-P

[1nando]

Comparing Camry, Prius and Corolla is hardly an accurate measure

“Used more often” - guess not fact
“Have more issues” - guess not fact
“More Toyota’s as overland vehicles” - guess not fact

The chart is statistically balanced.... it’s per 100 vehicles.

Toyota production is fully automated - 1 **** up is every **** up. Hence the 100 series lower suspension arm weld issue etc.

So if a fully robotic line of mass produced vehicles is having issues in a ratio very similar to a low volume, bespoke manufacturer - that tends to indicate the small volume producer has pretty good QA and the robot manufacturer is slipping.

Remember Hitlers Revenge was the biggest selling vehicle in history for a while, volume doesn’t mean quality or reliability.


Here’s a poor analogy from a course we participate in regularly:

Perception and Reputation.
Toyota has a solid reputation build over 4 decades ago.
Land Rover has a poor reputation pre-2005

Toyota marketed on their reputation, and to this day people say “get an unbreakable toyota”
Land Rover develop bleeding edge technology and bring it to market first, the brand is known for its comfort and features but not its reliability.

Since 2005 it’s really neither here nor there. Quality and reliability is on par, surveys etc get it close enough to be negligible.

Then this happens:
A current LR has a problem and people go “typical LR”

A current 200 has the identical problem and people go “just a niggle”


This is a VERY real situation.


Buy one, don’t buy one. Drive a Toyota or don’t or a Y62 if it’s your thing.

Btw the Nissan reputation is rusting, rattling hulks with boring ultra solid drive lines. (Patrols). Crap utes (Navara) and boring plastic passenger cars (generic not high spec Skylines etc).

I wouldn’t say a Y62 is a rattling rust bucket, would you?

Anyhow, I’m tiring of this. I’m unsubscribing this and the other Defender thread. I forgot how ridiculous this place can be at times and I have far better things to do.I agree with nearly all of your points, even the nissan ones. Except the one regarding "use". It's my opinion more Toyota's get used for different work applications than LRs and this in turn would produce more vehcile issues.

As I have grown older and wiser I have started looking at vehcile manufacturers without rose coloured glasses. I'll never buy a Toyota because i 100% agree with your comments and I couldn't stand the idea of being part of the bogan club, I won't buy another nissan other than another patrol either but I'm not loyal to any brand anymore! Even LR, they don't give a hoot about you, me or anyone else and the reality is that my hard earned is what I value when purchasing a vehicle. They won't even provide a 5 year warranty! Not good enough IMO.

[Tins]

Whomever told you it’s $10k for body off is totally full of it. It’s only 8 hours off and on taking it easy. It’s the same for a Cruiser starter motor.



There was a certain workshop not 25 ks from me, ( shall remain nameless, but lot's of us remember ) who could do the job in less than five hours if the dealer was paying, and he used to take two days to answer the phone. Of course, it could take two months if the dealer wasn't paying. Or two years..

LR don't have service centres everywhere, and it seem they have reduced that number. Toyota are the new Holden in that regard, bloody things are everywhere. Not quite the same thing with Nissan, 1nando. Getting service for your admittedly brilliant Y62 won't be the same as if you had an LC200. Fuel could be an issue as well. Or am I wrong in reading they need more than standard octane? ( I could be, I don't try to keep up much anymore, I'll never drive one )

All the cars these days are good, but they are only as good as their support. LR is no different these days, and comparisons are basically meaningless.

My son always has a go at my brand loyalties. He's right, in a way. I'll choose Apple over MS, or Android. But that is his point. I have been Apple for 25 years. Is it better? How would I know? I don't have the luxury of trying both.
Cars are a bit the same.Someone, sorry I should go back and see who it was, mentioned word of mouth. And THAT is it, because we surround ourselves with like minded people. And that advances us exactly nowhere.

Apart from my D2, every LR I've had has got me home. Isn't that what reliability means? It is for me.

Oh, my D2 failed due to its German transmission.

[bob10]

I have a D2. 420,000 + Kms. Never let me down. Cost me $ 9,000, I like it, Couldn't give a toss for any one that doesn't. Stuff that wears out wore out, and if you don't take the time to learn how to maintain it, you deserve what you get.

[blackrangie]

A lot of warranty issues are caused by parts from external suppliers.

My current daily driver (tarmac, Australian made) had a diff replaced due to noise (Dana) a wheel bearing replaced due to noise (no idea who the supplier was) and at 110,000km is just getting a driveshaft due to grease coming from the UJ (Dana again?). Same vehicle purchased 5 years earlier had no problems !

It doesn't matter how much testing a manufacturer does they are in the hands of their component suppliers. As each year goes by the cost they will pay is less for the same component, in theory because the supplier has covered some of the production investment costs. Does this mean the supplier will cut corners....who knows.
I'm sure the manufacturer will penalise suppliers in some way when their parts fail.

If it's not parts from external suppliers you can be let down on the production line...forgot to apply Loctite, forgot to apply grease.

I visited Ford just after the AU was released, went into a meeting room on the shop floor and on the whiteboard were a list of the faults picked up as they came off the line. Some were quite serious.
I'm sure the problems were solved as the staff got used to building the new model.

Another thing learnt many years back was 'steer clear of the new model'.
Until it's been out a while the problems haven't been discovered and ironed out.
The mules are not being built at the same rate as they will when the vehicle gets into full production and more care might be taken during their build.

ColinHave you noticed they are running factory line built prototypes on the road in the uk and they are marked as such for this very reason i imagine https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191018/a541dea066bf732037e00315e005e262.jpg

[Tins]

I have a D2. 420,000 + Kms. Never let me down. Cost me $ 9,000, I like it, Couldn't give a toss for any one that doesn't. Stuff that wears out wore out, and if you don't take the time to learn how to maintain it, you deserve what you get.

You have a point, Bob, a good point. Sadly, the D2 was where LR started to veer away from home people being able to maintain. The ZF 4HP 22/24 E series transmissions were the start of this. Even an oil change in these needed knowledge most home mechs didn't have at the time. I can't swear to this, but I've heard that many failures were caused by people refilling transmissions without having the car perfectly level. This makes sense in a way because of the tiny sump the trans had, fitted to an off-road car that could be asked to take on many strange angles. LR stuffed up. The D2 was brilliant in so many ways, let down by BMWs desire for a prestige "British" car, in the market that the Range Rover started. The D2 was flawed from day one, because it could never be all things for all men, and it could never be a Range Rover.

That said, a well set up D2 is a weapon off-road. It's not so good as a tourer. Buy a D4, or wait for the "New" Defender.

I like mine, BTW.

[bob10]

You have a point, Bob, a good point. Sadly, the D2 was where LR started to veer away from home people being able to maintain. The ZF 4HP 22/24 E series transmissions were the start of this. Even an oil change in these needed knowledge most home mechs didn't have at the time. I can't swear to this, but I've heard that many failures were caused by people refilling transmissions without having the car perfectly level. This makes sense in a way because of the tiny sump the trans had, fitted to an off-road car that could be asked to take on many strange angles. LR stuffed up. The D2 was brilliant in so many ways, let down by BMWs desire for a prestige "British" car, in the market that the Range Rover started. The D2 was flawed from day one, because it could never be all things for all men, and it could never be a Range Rover.

That said, a well set up D2 is a weapon off-road. It's not so good as a tourer. Buy a D4, or wait for the "New" Defender.

I like mine, BTW.

AULRO and a RAVE DVD is the D2 drivers best friend. The worst , and best thing I did on my D2 was replace every coolant hose my self. That , and the RAVE disc, taught me so much about the coolant system, and coolant flow. A necessary thing when your vehicle has an aluminium head. Then I fitted a Well tempered engine temp monitor, another essential. When fitting the new hoses, I found alloy fittings corroded almost to failing point. replaced them. I used to lay under my vehicle, and just look . That's how I found my hub seal leak, and the leak under my power steering pump. Fixed them. I think you can get my drift. Doesn't matter what vehicle you have, if you just drive it, don't even enter into reliability arguments.

[Tins]

. I think you can get my drift. Doesn't matter what vehicle you have, if you just drive it, don't even enter into reliability arguments.

Spent my life that way, Bob. Did everything I could myself, never afraid to ask for help if I needed it. Never too proud or too smart to help someone else, or accept it from another.

[gromit]

Have you noticed they are running factory line built prototypes on the road in the uk and they are marked as such for this very reason i imagine

No, I wouldn't have noticed because I'm not that interested.
Are you suggesting that they are producing at full capacity or that they are just produced on the factory line ?


Colin

[bob10]

That said, a well set up D2 is a weapon off-road. It's not so good as a tourer. Buy a D4, or wait for the "New" Defender.

I like mine, BTW.

A D4, never even considered that. I'll have to haunt the D4 site, see if one is worth considering. With the K's on my D2, I know sooner or later , if I want to keep driving to those remote places we all love, I will have to find a replacement. Nothing goes forever, and I have been looking. Whilst looking, I've found there is no vehicle that does not have "issues ".No vehicle is " unbreakable ", and any one believing that is just kidding themselves. Sadly, with the costs of running a vehicle nowadays, [ rego & fuel etc] and my age , the stark realisation is that it may be more cost effective to ditch the 4x4 and just have one daily runner, use buses and trains , or organised 'tours ' , something I'm resisting . The old timers got it right, age does weary us, and the years do condemn. But, I'm sure the old girl has just one more big trip in her. [ No not SWMBO, she wants to go to the Undarra lava tubes, not to see the tubes, but to camp in a railway carriage. [bighmmm]]Tasmania is my destination of choice, and in a twisted sort of way, if the old D2 decided not to proceed during one last big trip, after all the great memories it has provided to our family , the fantastic places its taken us, well, that would be ok. Unbreakable? no. Issues? of course, like any other, but part of the memories. Reliable? you bet, never had problem I couldn't fix, and it has never left me on the side of the road /beach. A land rover is not just a vehicle, it is part of the family.

Enough of that , got to get ready to take a load to the dump.

[blackrangie]

No, I wouldn't have noticed because I'm not that interested.
Are you suggesting that they are producing at full capacity or that they are just produced on the factory line ?


ColinWho knows about capacity, but im sure they are pumping them out, we know the factory line is running and these prototyes seem to be from it.

More real world testing is good

We are all commenting about it on an online LR forum so we must be interested [emoji6]

[gromit]

We are all commenting about it on an online LR forum so we must be interested [emoji6]

But this is a thread you started about reliability not the new Defender ?!


Colin

[blackrangie]

But this is a thread you started about reliability not the new Defender ?!


ColinAnd yet you were still commenting about the factory producing it and asking if it was at full capacity on an online LR forum,showing a significantly higher level of interest than the general public. [emoji12]
Anyway, they are testing factory produced vehicles on the road, produced as per photos on the same line as the D5 at the same speed, so in terms of quality and reliability im happy with that.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191019/32fe00611160c2b568067944f8f51ea8.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191019/115c15fe0e7b0679d93542dcac8bfbfe.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191019/70ed39c259a50d1b1d85e1a80689ab2c.jpg

[gromit]

And yet you were still commenting about the factory producing it and asking if it was at full capacity on an online LR forum,showing a significantly higher level of interest than the general public.

No, initially I was commenting on vehicle reliability in general.
You then asked if I was aware they are running factory line prototypes on the road in the UK which steered the discussion towards the new Defender.......

As I've mentioned in several threads the cost of purchase and maintenance mean that I'm not in LR's target market hence I'm not particularly interested.

Colin

[1nando]

This is bound to ruffle a few feathers.

What is really behind Jaguar Land Rover's problems in China (https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/jaguar-land-rover-hurt-quality-control-issues-china)

[blackrangie]

No, initially I was commenting on vehicle reliability in general.
You then asked if I was aware they are running factory line prototypes on the road in the UK which steered the discussion towards the new Defender.......

As I've mentioned in several threads the cost of purchase and maintenance mean that I'm not in LR's target market hence I'm not particularly interested.

ColinHmm if your were not referring to the new defender in your original comment, you could have fooled me [emoji1787]

The only mules that have ever been referred to on this forum for the last couple of years are the new defender from my experience and in context this is a LR discussion, hence my reply.

I didn't steer it, i was just responding to your comment about the new defender production. Of you were referring to some other mules, cool.

My replys still relevant to your comment and the subject of the thread.

Lets get back to the subject [emoji1417]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191019/8fa6794839310c75a881bab1270385e0.jpg

[Red90]

That will kill the company.

[blackrangie]

This is bound to ruffle a few feathers.

What is really behind Jaguar Land Rover's problems in China (https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/jaguar-land-rover-hurt-quality-control-issues-china)Not sure if an 8month old outdated article is going to rustle any feathers, we discussed all that in the won't be retro thread.
Mate you dug into the deep archives for that one, JLR actioned a turn around plan in china long ago.

Electrification and fixing dealer issues seems to have worked. 3 months of double digit growth, infact china is JLR's biggest grown region atm.

Good news from China, a self-driving I-Pace and could the Jaguar XE rival Tesla's Model 3 - your Jaguar Land Rover digest - CoventryLive (https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/jaguar-land-rover-latest-news-17103805)


The latest figure also reveal some good news from China in the shape of a 24.3 per cent rise over the quarter.

Jaguar Land Rover also celebrated a third consecutive month of double-digit sales growth in China.

During a period of continued growth in recent years China became Jaguar Land Rover’s largest market before sales plunged.

The fall in sales in China was described as one of the car maker’s biggest problems, along with declining demand for diesel vehicles and ongoing uncertainty over Brexit.

Also read in China Landrover brand is up 36 percent in August!

Not one Feather ruffled [emoji1787][emoji12]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191019/5e4b7e767e1abbad3360c04fef180a80.jpg

[DieselDan]

Without knowing what the terms of reference for the survey are, i.e. what questions were asked, it's hard to come to any hard conclusions.
I notice the graphs are labelled as dependability results, not reliability.
Having answered a few of these and also having had to interpret the results of similar types of surveys, the best way to think of these is a representation of customer satisfaction, rather than anything truly hard and fast about how good any individual car or brand is.
For example customer expectations play a massive part. Look at how high Skoda is in the UK results compared to VW, Seat and Audi. In many respects these could be results from almost the same car, yet the Audi buyer, having paid a damn sight more than the Skoda buyer, has way higher expectations.
So if the same niggly fault occurs in each brand, who is gonna be more ****ed off? And who is gonna expect the dealer to fix it NOW, as opposed to the buyer who, having lower expectations, is happy to wait till it goes for its next service?

Looking at the position of LR in each of their graphs, how much of that is down to crappy dealers?

[gromit]

Hmm if your were not referring to the new defender in your original comment, you could have fooled me

The thread started off asking 'how reliable is Land Rover now' not how reliable is the new 'Defender'.
Long term testing should make a vehicle more reliable but isn't a 'given' as you've suggested in several threads about the new 'Defender'.

I hope that the new 'Defender' is successful for Land Rover but it's aimed at a very different market to the original Defender.
The company has gone through several different owners, is now manufacturing vehicles outside the UK and serving a very different market.
Under Tata management the company has grown and the whole range has moved upmarket which is more than BMW or Ford ever achieved.

The hype around the new 'Defender' intrigues me, but as stated before I'm not in their target market for a number of reasons. It is interesting though sitting on the sidelines and seeing the excitement in some people the hype is creating......


Colin

[blackrangie]

The thread started off asking 'how reliable is Land Rover now' not how reliable is the new 'Defender'.
Long term testing should make a vehicle more reliable but isn't a 'given' as you've suggested in several threads about the new 'Defender'.

I hope that the new 'Defender' is successful for Land Rover but it's aimed at a very different market to the original Defender.
The company has gone through several different owners, is now manufacturing vehicles outside the UK and serving a very different market.
Under Tata management the company has grown and the whole range has moved upmarket which is more than BMW or Ford ever achieved.

The hype around the new 'Defender' intrigues me, but as stated before I'm not in their target market for a number of reasons. It is interesting though sitting on the sidelines and seeing the excitement in some people the hype is creating......


ColinAll in good fun

[shanegtr]

I've always had a issue with those JD power surveys - The important thing for reliability to me is how many issues/problems stop the car dead and require a tow truck to get fixed, or at best require an unscheduled trip to the dealer/mechanic. Anything that can wait until the next service is not really an issue. JD power doesn't really tell me that info (not as far as Im aware anyway)
5yr warranty is just a marketing excise and has nothing to do with manufacturers faith in their vehicles - lets look at a handful of other manufactures that are still offering 3yr warranties - LR, BMW, MB, Audi and Jaguar. I would put up the argument that people who buy these brands would not typically be buying the generic cars that offer 5yr warranties (or at least not buying them for the same purpose as a more upmarket vehicle)

Strictly speaking about reliability in general of all machines and not just cars - your most likely to have a breakdown/failure during a machines infancy or totally randomly throughout its life. So if a car doesn't fail in its first year then chances are good that it will be fine for the next 3 or 5 years either way.

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