Land Rover doesn't understand Australia - no ute !

[VladTepes]

New Land Rover Defender pick-up ruled out

Dual-cab 4x4 ute based on resurrected off-roader is no longer happening, says JLR insider

Plans to spin off a dual-cab ute version of the born-again Land Rover Defender 110 have been scrapped, it’s been revealed at the Frankfurt motor show.

Speaking to carsales, a senior Jaguar Land Rover source acknowledged the existence of a leaked early PowerPoint presentation that detailed the dual-cab ute, but said that such a derivative had been dropped from the British car-maker's product plans.

Originally, early reports suggested the Defender pick-up would be launched in late 2020 or early 2021, and would be based on the forthcoming Defender 130, which reportedly measures in at 5100mm – 342mm longer than the Defender 110 revealed at the Frankfurt show.

Explaining Land Rover's decision for dropping plans for a dual-cab Defender 130, the JLR insider said: "Why would you buy a dual-cab ute when you see what you can put in the back of one of these – this is already a ute with a roof."

As well as ruling out a rugged, premium rival for the Toyota HiLux, the same JLR insider also disputed earlier reports that the cheapest Defender 90 two-door will be priced from about $50,000. Instead, he suggested prices would kick off far higher than that, from "at least $60,000".

Orders for the 2020 Land Rover 110 five-door are now being taken ahead of first Australian deliveries from next June, with an indicative starting price of $70,000.
The little Defender 90, meanwhile, isn't expected to rock up until late 2020.

Idiots. [bighmmm]

link to above: https://www.carsales.com.au/editorial/details/new-land-rover-defender-pick-up-ruled-out-120528/

The above seems to imply that there will still be a 130 (presumably a wagon version?) but I'm very doubtful that will happen if there is no ute planned.

[trout1105]

As landrover Only build luxury SUV's these days it is a falorn hope that they will ever build a Proper working mans 4WD ever again.
Even IF they did there is No way that they could build a ute that is competitively priced to match all the various Asian offerings.

[W&KO]

I don’t reckon a farmer will be able torun his quad into the back of a defender wagon

Just finished a job which needed me to deliver a 20m roll of 4” dry delivery hose to a gold mine, would have been a bitch getting it in and out of a wagon...good thing we still have real commercial vehicles available to get the job done.

[goingbush]

Wake up sunshine, LandRover don't give a toss about Australia. ( or, it seems, English Farmers)

There will be no Ute.

[grey_ghost]

I would hardly want to put a sick or dead sheep in the back of my flash new 110... [emoji15]

[16PMark]

Maybe LR could copy Mercedes' idea, and build a ute on an already existing platform from Japan....coz that's gone well.....[emoji1787][emoji23]

[Gregz]

probably better off just ignoring LR completely for this category of vehicle, and get yourself a vw anorak 580 instead.

[87County]

Maybe LR could copy Mercedes' idea, and build a ute on an already existing platform from Japan....coz that's gone well.....[emoji1787][emoji23]

just re-badged (from Thailand?) isn't it?

[16PMark]

just re-badged (from Thailand?) isn't it?Or Mexico, not sure where the Navara is built.
I believe the body is completely different, it's just the floor pan that Merc pinched.
So not just a re-badging as such, but near enough, for Mercedes standards.
Hmmm, Mercedes Renault partnership.....would that work for F1...[emoji1787]
Anywho.....
[emoji1783]

[Graeme]

In Oz at least, a farmer isn't allowed to carry hazardous pesticides (herbicides & insecticides) inside a vehicle but can in the back of a ute.

[cripesamighty]

Land Rover don't really care about Australia, or Africa, or any other small markets that were waiting/hoping for a Defender ute. That ship has sailed as these are not the target markets anymore. It will be a rational business decision on Land Rovers part to not compete in a segment with too little ROI for such a small company. The giving up of street cred, cache, links to your roots, etc is another argument entirely, which larger companies like Mercedes can cater for (G-Wagen range), but Land Rover probably can't.

Having said that, given a never ending budget, I'm sure Land Rover would have loved to have a Defender ute though, and I bet a lot of midnight oil (and probably $$ on prototypes) was burned on whether to add it to the model range or not!

[Tins]

Or Mexico, not sure where the Navara is built.
I believe the body is completely different, it's just the floor pan that Merc pinched.
So not just a re-badging as such, but near enough, for Mercedes standards.
Hmmm, Mercedes Renault partnership.....would that work for F1...[emoji1787]
Anywho.....
[emoji1783]

X-Class Benz is assembled in Spain. The body is not from the Navara, and there are variants that use Benz running gear, these would be the dearer, up market ones.

[16PMark]

In Oz at least, a farmer isn't allowed to carry hazardous pesticides (herbicides & insecticides) inside a vehicle but can in the back of a ute.But they're allowed to drive a DIESEL. [emoji56][emoji1787][emoji23]

[Tins]

Said it before, and will say it again. The New Defender is the logical successor to the D4. Of course there won't be a ute.

JLR's owners, Tata, make heaps of utes. If they believed that there was a demand then I reckon we would get Tata utes, not LRs. LR has been increasingly distanced from that market, which is now totally dominated by Toyota and Ford, here in Oz.

[Tins]

just re-badged (from Thailand?) isn't it?

No. Apart from the Nissan F-Alpha platform, and some driveline stuff in some models, it's a different vehicle, and it's made in Spain.

[DazzaTD5]

Wake up sunshine, LandRover don't give a toss about Australia. ( or, it seems, English Farmers)

There will be no Ute.

Yep agree there and clearly consumers don't give a toss about Land Rover products which is reflected in poor sales of Land Rovers for decades.

I doubt they will ever wake up and build products that consumers want. With the attitude of "why would you buy a dual cab ute" its that stupid arrogance that killed their products in the 70's.

Jaguar Land Rover, lost in their own bull**** while the market leader Toyota keeps selling vehicles.

[scarry]

Jaguar Land Rover, lost in their own bull**** while the market leader Toyota keeps selling vehicles.


All old news,the Defender ute was dead months ago,following comments from LR.

Meanwhile, Toyota keep making vehicles that people in this country want.

[Tins]

Yep agree there and clearly consumers don't give a toss about Land Rover products which is reflected in poor sales of Land Rovers for decades.

I doubt they will ever wake up and build products that consumers want. With the attitude of "why would you buy a dual cab ute" its that stupid arrogance that killed their products in the 70's.

Jaguar Land Rover, lost in their own bull**** while the market leader Toyota keeps selling vehicles.

And yet LR is now more successful than they have been for over 40 years. They DO make vehicles that people want. It's just that now those are different people.

[DazzaTD5]

And yet LR is now more successful than they have been for over 40 years. They DO make vehicles that people want. It's just that now those are different people.

And yet LR sales are dismal when compared to Toyota, Kia, Hyundai etc etc that DO make vehicles people want.

Land Rover back in the 50's built a vehicle people wanted, a series I Land Rover.
I don't see "successful" anywhere, it certainly isn't build quality, reliability nor sales.
Maybe you mean customer support, which isnt horrific when compared to VW, Merc, Holden.

OK - Being able to access repair manuals, data, info etc etc is second to none from where I sit (you pay for the amount of access and for how long).

[DiscoMick]

It appears I probably can't get 12 bags of goat poo in the back of a new Defender wagon, so I guess I'm not their target market and we'll have to soldier on with our old 110. [emoji6]

[scarry]

It appears I probably can't get 12 bags of goat poo in the back of a new Defender wagon, so I guess I'm not their target market and we'll have to soldier on with our old 110. [emoji6]

Nah,you will have to wait a couple of months longer for the 130 wagon,it should have heaps of room.

You may get more than 12 bags in it[wink11]

Let us know how you go[tonguewink]

[scarry]

Someone sent me this today....[bighmmm]

Yes i know its all rigged[thumbsupbig]

https://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/16214198/640/16214198.jpg (https://picturepush.com/public/16214198)

[Tins]

And yet LR sales are dismal when compared to Toyota, Kia, Hyundai etc etc that DO make vehicles people want.
Compare sales in target markets, rather than just blanket ones. In the UK, and EU, LR beats those brands hands down when comparing competing vehicles. Toyota, foe example, can't sell anything bearing the LandCruiser badge in the UK, because the things are too big. The LC 200 isn't even offered in most EU countries. This info is easily available online, BTW. Where is LRs biggest market, do you think?


Land Rover back in the 50's built a vehicle people wanted, a series I Land Rover.
I don't see "successful" anywhere, it certainly isn't build quality, reliability nor sales.
Maybe you mean customer support, which isnt horrific when compared to VW, Merc, Holden.

In the 50s, there were awful Chev and Ford trucks. They worked, but do you know what conditions were like in outback Australia, in the North, in the Wet? Of course Land Rovers were popular with farmers. You also need to know that, after WWII, US dollars could not be had in this country ( I know, because my father was sole distributor for Evinrude motors, and he could no longer obtain them, due to currency restrictions { this is a whole new topic, but people should at least study a "little" history, don't you think?}), so Jeeps were not available.

Are you seriously going to mention the almost dead Holden and customer support in the same sentence? Land Rover is in a way better situation than Holden. GM filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy. The US Fed bailed them out. 2008 maybe? Tata is doing just fine.


OK - Being able to access repair manuals, data, info etc etc is second to none from where I sit (you pay for the amount of access and for how long).

I get this point, but how much access do you have to Benz manuals, or Prius, or Lambo, or Ferrari, or Rolls Royce, or HSV, or Lotus, or Lexus, or Infiniti, or pretty much any brand you care to mention? Simple answer; you don't, unless you are an accredited repairer. Why single out LR? They are all trying to protect intellectual property.

I still maintain that LR is commercially more successful than they have been for more than 40 years. I don't like the cars they make these days any more than you do, but the market does, and so do the shareholders, which is the bottom line.

I'll stick with my D2 and my SIII until I can afford an OKA. There is no LR as I knew it anymore, but I can let it go.

[DazzaTD5]

I get this point, but how much access do you have to Benz manuals, or Prius, or Lambo, or Ferrari, or Rolls Royce, or HSV, or Lotus, or Lexus, or Infiniti, or pretty much any brand you care to mention? Simple answer; you don't, unless you are an accredited repairer. Why single out LR? They are all trying to protect intellectual property.

There is no LR as I knew it anymore, but I can let it go.

*John, I'm saying its one of Land Rovers few saving graces, being able to access (at a reasonable cost, which is fair enough) all info, manuals etc which is something pretty well most manufacturers dont do. It's almost like they support independent repairers, which is pretty good.

*Toyota/Lexus also offer, again at a cost access to their diagnostic software, equipment, everything you need, there prices are right up there though. But access none the less.

***** brands such as VW, Merc, holden, GM offer little to zero support when it comes to accessing manuals etc.

*I dont subscribe to the protecting intellectual property thing as once you have purchased a product, such as a car or a computer, you actually have everything there. All the parts both electronic and mechanical can all be worked out, sure it can be a long draw out pain in the arse, but it can be done.

[SBD4]

*John, I'm saying its one of Land Rovers few saving graces, being able to access (at a reasonable cost, which is fair enough) all info, manuals etc which is something pretty well most manufacturers dont do. It's almost like they support independent repairers, which is pretty good.

*Toyota/Lexus also offer, again at a cost access to their diagnostic software, equipment, everything you need, there prices are right up there though. But access none the less.

***** brands such as VW, Merc, holden, GM offer little to zero support when it comes to accessing manuals etc.

*I dont subscribe to the protecting intellectual property thing as once you have purchased a product, such as a car or a computer, you actually have everything there. All the parts both electronic and mechanical can all be worked out, sure it can be a long draw out pain in the arse, but it can be done.

Yep, "Right to repair" is an issue across many sectors - heavy machinery and consumer electronics being big ones. Huge case going on in the US at the moment with manufacturers fighting all the way. The way JR do it is good and fair. They get something for providing the information and they don't stop people from doing their own repairs (or through someone like yourself).

[DiscoMick]

Nah,you will have to wait a couple of months longer for the 130 wagon,it should have heaps of room.

You may get more than 12 bags in it[wink11]

Let us know how you go[tonguewink]Okay, but it will be December before I get to collect more goat poo from the rellies.

[101RRS]

I think LR understand the Australian market perfectly - but they are a small company and we are a small market and they have to maximise their return for their investment and that means catering for their major markets. Any investment in a ute (and it would have to be a dual cab ute) for Australia would just not be cost effective and probably a failure in economic terms.

Garry

[loanrangie]

The monocoque design has pretty much killed any idea of a ute although still possible engineering wise , if they had retained a chassis it would be easy to tool up for one.

[Tombie]

I don’t reckon a farmer will be able torun his quad into the back of a defender wagon

Just finished a job which needed me to deliver a 20m roll of 4” dry delivery hose to a gold mine, would have been a bitch getting it in and out of a wagon...good thing we still have real commercial vehicles available to get the job done.

Your “real” working commercial vehicle wouldn’t be allowed on my site.

Those days are gone, now all heavier work is LTs with safety systems.

[Tombie]

The monocoque design has pretty much killed any idea of a ute although still possible engineering wise , if they had retained a chassis it would be easy to tool up for one.

Nah, they did it with Holdens and Fords, it’s not hard to do.

Just the economics. Australia is NOT progressive, we are a backwards society, stuck on old ways and self indulgent arrogance.

Ask any Aussie a while back, an Aussie family vehicle needed to be RWD, big, boofy etc - Not some FWD thing! Yet the Yanks were pumping them out.

We all need a Ute- yet most Tradies O/S use Vans. Tradies buy a Ute fit a canopy, trailer etc. but it was the Aussie thing.

Even if ALL the Primary producers placed an order for a Ute... it wouldn’t even total 0.05% of global sales.



Let’s also take a look at the comments of others along the lines of “Kia etc sell vehicles people want”.
And let’s phrase it correctly - “Kia etc well vehicle’s people see value in aligned to their budget”

Many want the Premium Brands, it’s more a case they are not “brand fans” and will go features/value or economic drivers.

Also, companies like Toyota sell shed loads of vehicles - Corolla, Camry etc making up the principal volumes - let’s leave them off the comparisons as they skew figures and not relevant to (I have this TLA) SUVs or offroad capable vehicles.

[SpudHeadTed]

Your “real” working commercial vehicle wouldn’t be allowed on my site.

Those days are gone, now all heavier work is LTs with safety systems.

Thats the real story. Notice how the only large ‘ute’ left is 70 series and it’s days are numbered. The light duty dualcab utes are showponies. Fashion accessories.

Land Rover didn’t even bother testing Defender in Australia. We’re an insignificant market due to small population size.

[Eevo]

if LR make a ute, it needs to be like this


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PI_Jl5WFQkA

[W&KO]

Your “real” working commercial vehicle wouldn’t be allowed on my site.

Those days are gone, now all heavier work is LTs with safety systems.

Sure your site has a set of rules......I was referring to sites I have experience with. Send us a pic when your site upgrade to a fleet of 110’s [emoji6]

The 10 sites owned by the company I work for and recently the two customer gold mines along with all the coal seam gas operations I have visited the bulk of the work is done by utes (hi-lux’s, other versions on dual and single cabs, 79 series).

I was replying to the statement of ‘why would you buy a dual cab Ute’, if they opened there eye utes are and will be required for many applications for quite some time.

I don’t have a need for a ute as my personal car, but for work the new defender would not be suitable.

Like you, I could just buy a new defender because a can...but one I don’t need it and two it doesn’t have the flexibility we need for our up and coming trip therefore we’ll stick with out current 2000 defender and re-assess in 2023.

[Tombie]

You’re post only confirmed your observation of what LR would have also found during research.

The Ute market is flooded already.Any non-Thai produced vehicle cannot compete on pricing alone.
The soon to be gone 7x series won’t be much longer.

Several sites now are Rangers or LTs only. Which would partially explain Toyota’s 11.6% drop in Hilux and Cruiser sales.

Premium 4wd class was one of the best sales performers. Not a Cruiser/Patrol in the list.

[Eevo]

You’re post only confirmed your observation of what LR would have also found during research.

The Ute market is flooded already.Any non-Thai produced vehicle cannot compete on pricing alone.
The soon to be gone 7x series won’t be much longer.

Several sites now are Rangers or LTs only. Which would partially explain Toyota’s 11.6% drop in Hilux and Cruiser sales.

Premium 4wd class was one of the best sales performers. Not a Cruiser/Patrol in the list.


whats an LT?

[DiscoMick]

Tradies are better off with vans. Lots of storage and can be locked, so much more secure.

[incisor]

whats an LT?

light truck ?

[W&KO]

Tradies are better off with vans. Lots of storage and can be locked, so much more secure.

I think plenty would disagree.....

[incisor]

Idiots. [bighmmm]



why would you want to compete in a market that is already oversaturated..

Mahindra make a nice ute.... or two....

i don't get all the angst from the die hard rusted on old world enthusiasts

sure it's different, yep it aint what once was...

but why would you in this day and age FFS?

happy to cruise my place in the world, in my 1995 130 and let the newbies zip by in the new units.... i can still pass the old units hehehehehehe

be happy, lifes way to short for all the bull**** and angst...

[scarry]

I think plenty would disagree.....

Not me,in our game,its the best work vehicle by an absolute country mile,and on the weekends,fits the bikes in,etc ,all out of the weather,and very secure with an aftermarket alarm.[thumbsupbig]

[Eevo]

light truck ?


thats what i thought but ive never seen a large volume of light trucks on a mine site. 90% would be ute or /big heavy trucks

[Tombie]

I think plenty would disagree.....

They would disagree on “looks” alone in many cases.
And that would be the only basis in most cases.

Vans for almost all trades are far more suitable.
Although ‘Stick burners’ usually have LTs (Light Trucks) if they do serious stuff.

The heavy diesel mechs have an LT and a Ute - ironically the Ute has gullwing boxes taking up the entire tray rendering it no longer useful as a tray and more exposed than a van.

[Tombie]

thats what i thought but ive never seen a large volume of light trucks on a mine site. 90% would be ute or /big heavy trucks

You need to get out more...... [emoji41]

[scarry]

They would disagree on “looks” alone in many cases.
And that would be the only basis in most cases.

Vans for almost all trades are far more suitable.
Although ‘Stick burners’ usually have LTs (Light Trucks) if they do serious stuff.

The heavy diesel mechs have an LT and a Ute - ironically the Ute has gullwing boxes taking up the entire tray rendering it no longer useful as a tray and more exposed than a van.

But where a ute does excel is in off road work,such as diesel mechanics that work on earth moving equipment,as an example.
Many utes are also more comfortable on rough country roads,and on long country runs.
And with dual cabs,the kids can be picked up from school,and driven around on the weekends.Now thats important....But a tiny tray,way too small for the average tradie.

Vans have very limited wheel travel,we are talking a few inches at best.Once off the black top they are totally hopeless.

A vans tray height is also a great advantage over a ute,particularly a tray back ute.

So its sort of horses for courses,but as said,its vans for us.

[Tombie]

For the rough site access they always bring the Service truck.

You would never put a family in a Diesel Mechs Vehicle. [emoji6]

[W&KO]

Each to there own........a van doesn’t suit my needs for work plus I don’t pay for the Ute or fuel or personal running around.

I don’t reckon companies that currently run utes will be lining up to switch there fleet to defenders......vans or light trucks?? ....given it’s Land Rover that made the statement above ‘why would people buy utes’ can only assume they reckon the defender can replace all utes in the market.

[Tombie]

Maybe they are thinking the same way? Why buy a Ute.

There’s Light Trucks for work
Wagons for families etc
Vans for those whose work suits.
Commercial Spec Defender May fit for some.
Many just use trailers for bulky gear.

Maybe that’s the thinking, not the suggestion a family spec defender can replace them.

Using an old style Defender for a work vehicle for employees would want a fantastic risk assessment documented. Providing a worker with such could prove expensive if things go bad.

It’s the above reason that Toyota shoved SRS into the 70.... they would lose all the market.

[CrustyNoodle]

155438

The real Defender replacement???


From my personal perspective, I wouldn't consider buying the old defender but the new one is perfect for what I would want in my next vehicle - not that I'm looking to upgrade any time soon.

[AK83]

Maybe LR could copy Mercedes' idea, and build a ute on an already existing platform from Japan....coz that's gone well.....[emoji1787][emoji23]

[bigrolf]

Yeah, rumours that they're going to axe it!

I don't think LR are idiots at all .. been said before .. market too small to spend $s on such a vehicle.

Afterall, why buy a Tata ute for well over $60K, when you can buy the genuine thing for less than $30K!

Who was it that owns LR now?

Wouldn't surprise me if they did do one well into the future with some newer model update to the current Xenon comes along.

[RANDLOVER]

Nah, they did it with Holdens and Fords, it’s not hard to do.

Just the economics. Australia is NOT progressive, we are a backwards society, stuck on old ways and self indulgent arrogance.

Ask any Aussie a while back, an Aussie family vehicle needed to be RWD, big, boofy etc - Not some FWD thing! Yet the Yanks were pumping them out.

We all need a Ute- yet most Tradies O/S use Vans. Tradies buy a Ute fit a canopy, trailer etc. but it was the Aussie thing.

Even if ALL the Primary producers placed an order for a Ute... it wouldn’t even total 0.05% of global sales.



Let’s also take a look at the comments of others along the lines of “Kia etc sell vehicles people want”.
And let’s phrase it correctly - “Kia etc well vehicle’s people see value in aligned to their budget”

Many want the Premium Brands, it’s more a case they are not “brand fans” and will go features/value or economic drivers.

Also, companies like Toyota sell shed loads of vehicles - Corolla, Camry etc making up the principal volumes - let’s leave them off the comparisons as they skew figures and not relevant to (I have this TLA) SUVs or offroad capable vehicles.

My thoughts exactly, LR could make a Defender Ute, like the swan song Falcon and Commodore utes.

Aussies like value for money, the mid sized cars didn't sell well here, preferring either small cheap cars, or the big roomy
Falcon and Commodore. To match a one of those i.e. roomy, 4 litre, auto, rwd, you'd have to buy a Merc, BMW or Audi.

The reason FWD (front wheel drive) is so popular, is the manufacture of them is so easy (and above all cheap), just drop the engine, gearbox, diff, combo into the engine bay, actually I think they do it the other way round, pop the body over the combo with wheels and suspension attached as well.

Not all tradies O/S (overseas) use vans, true in UK & Europe, as otherwise all the tools & materials get covered in rain, snow, ice. In more pleasant climes such as ours and most of the Americas (North & South) pick ups are very popular, see the Ford F-truck, by some counts, the 2nd most sold vehicle of all time, and most popular pick up, and don't forget it's competitors like the Chevy C/K 10/30 trucks (now GMC) and Dodges, etc.

The Series/Defender pick ups were great for conversions because they had a chassis and to some extent, PTO (power take off) , all sorts of equipment could be attached to them welders, excavators, tippers, ladders, cherry pickers, tow truck, fire fighting appliances, etc.

Cheers,
Randy

[BigJon]

No. Apart from the Nissan F-Alpha platform, and some driveline stuff in some models, it's a different vehicle, and it's made in Spain.

By some driveline stuff, you mean the entire driveline in the volume selling 4 cylinder versions?
Doesn't really matter as A: they are killing it off and B: it is massively overpriced garbage (yes, I have driven one quite a bit).

[blackrangie]

There is so much miss information on this thread it is not funny.

JLR UK has not ruled out a ute.

The Australian market is very important to Land Rover and they are on record as saying as such and have even gone to the effort of providing a bull bar for our market where they are not for any other market to my knowledge.

We also get the diesel d240 where America with much greater potential sales numbers does not.

We also get the slide in Hayman Reese style tow hitch.

JLR reliability is comparable to Toyota now in markets that are similar to ours, not that saying anything with the current state of Toyota reliability.

And a ute can be made from a monocoque and has been made in the past, some of Australia's most successful sellers have been monocoque utes.

[SPROVER]

You think American people want that puny little diesel that landrover is offering? When you can get over 6 litres of turbo charged diesel goodness in other 4wd.[emoji16]

[Eevo]

You think American people want that puny little diesel that landrover is offering? When you can get over 6 litres of turbo charged diesel goodness in other 4wd.[emoji16]


only milk comes in 2l packages [bigwhistle]

[blackrangie]

You think American people want that puny little diesel that landrover is offering? When you can get over 6 litres of turbo charged diesel goodness in other 4wd.[emoji16]On the US forums yes they do, no doubt they will get the 3L Diesel next year.

Thinking that every American is a huge V8 Diesel loving person is a huge generalisation.. but I do admit the culture is more biased towards big V8s.

They need 7L+ Turbocharged V8deseils to move them as they weight twice as much as the new defender and cost twice as much to run.

[blackrangie]

It's important when reading articles to look for on record comments, also are they unnamed sources? And what parts of the article are actually just factless opinion.

I focus only on the on record comments quoted.

Land Rover Defender ute “being considered,” could partner up (https://www.whichcar.com.au/news/land-rover-defender-ute-being-considered-could-partner-up)
*

When questioned further if head office was paying attention to the potential gold mine that is the Australian ute market - and also retaining the ute bodystyle the Defender enjoyed in the previous-generation's 67-years of service - Cameron said that indeed a ute was in consideration.
“It is interesting at the moment, it is being considered, definitely.”

Defender Ute! Land Rover considering Ford Ranger rival - Car News | CarsGuide (https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-news/defender-ute-land-rover-considering-ford-ranger-rival-75712)
*

“We’re getting that feedback and obviously there are markets that indeed are asking about the potential for a pick-up or that kind of derivative of one of our products in the future,” he said.
“We are permanently looking at and evaluating opportunities. Let’s first launch the*Defender. And we’re taking on that feedback and we’re trying to evaluate. In the end it has to be a viable business case for us as well, but we understand the demand,” he said.

[Bigbjorn]

On the US forums yes they do, no doubt they will get the 3L Diesel next year.

Thinking that every American is a huge V8 Diesel loving person is a huge generalisation.. but I do admit the culture is more biased towards big V8s.

They need 7L+ Turbocharged V8deseils to move them as they weight twice as much as the new defender and cost twice as much to run.

And in the snow states they have to push through snow drifts in winter and deep mud in the thaw. High ground clearance, lots of power and big tyres are the formula. Also farmers and hunters like to carry a snowmobile, trike or quad in the back. Fuel is cheap in the USA compared with the rest of the world even though Yanks bitch about the price of gas. If you slide off the icy road into a snowbank it helps to have a bit of metal around you. Further, there are an awful lot of very big Yanks who do not fit well in vehicles designed for Asian and Mediterranean dwarfs.

[101RRS]

There is so much miss information on this thread it is not funny.



Its called conjecture not misinformation - surprising about that, afterall it is a forum.

Garry

[blackrangie]

Its called conjecture not misinformation - surprising about that, afterall it is a forum.

GarryWhen its stated as fact, its misinformation imo.

Infact the first article in this thread started it all, very factless.

[Tins]

*I dont subscribe to the protecting intellectual property thing as once you have purchased a product, such as a car or a computer, you actually have everything there. All the parts both electronic and mechanical can all be worked out, sure it can be a long draw out pain in the arse, but it can be done.

Couldn't agree more. There is now a reasonably vocal "right to repair" movement in the US, which is mostly aimed at car companies, and Apple, and Samsung ( strangely, Google tech is quite easy to repair for indies). I expect that it will succeed eventually through legislation, But these companies, well Apple does in particular, carry a mighty big stick. FWIW, Apple has at last been releasing repair guides and proprietary parts to repairers in the US. Not here, though.

I watch many repairers in the US online, and the number of OBD devices they need ( talking general repairers here ) is ridiculous.

Of course, LR is not obliged ( currently ) to provide any info to you, me or anyone else. What is it in the New Deefer? 86 computers? Can't see a Nanocom dealing with those.

[Tins]

*John, I'm saying its one of Land Rovers few saving graces, being able to access (at a reasonable cost, which is fair enough) all info, manuals etc which is something pretty well most manufacturers dont do. It's almost like they support independent repairers, which is pretty good.



Fair enough. I misread your point.However, you surprise me. Maybe LR need to do this as they have reduced dealer numbers substantially. You'd know more about that than me.

Supporting indies is a rare thing today.

[Tins]

By some driveline stuff, you mean the entire driveline in the volume selling 4 cylinder versions?


I did say "some models". Which models were "volume selling"? I thought the whole thing was a flop because the only people who cared about the Three Pointed Star badge wanted a real Benz, not a Nissan, and so they couldn't give the "volume selling" things away. Who'd pay the premium for what was essentially already a loser in this market simply because it spit polished its boots? And who'd buy the real Benz ones when a Toyota was cheaper and very likely better and there was a dealer next door. It was one of the more weird marketing attempts I've seen in this country. Beaten by the Toyota Lexcen, but only just.

IMO, Mercedes cheapened their brand entering this market, a market they could never win in in this country. { Dunno how they do in Europe and I ain't looking } The work ute sector in Oz is dominated by the HiLux, except in the 4WD segment, where it's the Ranger on top. Benz should stick to their knitting. They make what is arguably the best road legal off road vehicle in the world, The Unimog. They also make what might be the second best ( more arguably this time ), the GelanderWagen. They have, without doubt, the ability to create a replacement for what this thread is bemoaning. The fact that they don't, Military excepted, suggests that the market no longer exists... OK, the 7x Toyota fills a gap. That car is nearly finished. Let's see if Toyota can be bothered.

Oh, yeah...; "some driveline stuff". If you want a Benz ute, buy a Musso. Don't think there's any Nissan DNA there. Mitsubishi Triton perhaps? It's so hard to keep up.

[blackrangie]

Carmakers ordered to share repair data with mechanics (https://www.whichcar.com.au/car-news/carmakers-ordered-to-share-repair-data)

[DiscoDB]

When its stated as fact, its misinformation imo.

Infact the first article in this thread started it all, very factless.

BR - your membership to the JLR fan club is appreciated, but it has been stated by JLR that they have no current production plans to make a ute and whilst you are correct it has not been ruled out - gee anything is possible - a high level insider confirming to a journalist that development of a ute option has been cancelled at this point in time is I am sure pretty accurate and based on facts. Your constant dismissing of peoples frustration with the path JLR is taking just shows a lack of empathy - very similar level of response coming out of JLR. It is interesting that LR purist have been as passionately annoyed with the New Discovery as others are with the New Defender for pretty much all the same reasons. The New Defender is about winning D3/D4 owners back over as they realise we are more likely to now spend money on retaining our current vehicles than buy a New Discovery. I am sure you will love your New Defender and there will be plenty of posts and pictures shown.

I personally believe we will now see a re-resurgence in upgrade mods being offered for the D3/D4 as this makes a good platform for customisation, along with more people who will now hold on to their old Defenders. Right now owning a D3 or 4 along with a old 90 or 110 would be a good combination. I even expect dual cab conversions for the D3/D4 will become more common as it is relatively easy to do (thanks to the body on chassis design). It is like Land Rover developed this brilliant integrated body on chassis design with so much options for different variations (beyond the wagon) but never took it to the next level. They got it right with the RRC when they used hand-me down parts and tooling to make the D1 for low development cost with new engine options and it was a winner that hit the right balance between old tech foundations and new ideas at the right price. The D2 went on to be the best RRC ever in either V8 or Td5 version - and even when new it was a bargain for what you got.

JLR current focus is on the next replacement Range Rover, and then on entering the luxury car (not SUV) space with a RR crossover. They want to be a boutique manufacturer of bespoke relatively low volume high margin branded products - sold to people who buy as a fashion statement - like people who think LR branded mud-flaps are important. The New Defender is thankfully a step in the right direction for those that want a highly capable 4WD family wagon - and keeps the dream alive for some of us. The smart money would be to stick with the base model and minimise the options and not fall for the bling on offer. Even charging $6K just to go from D200 to D240 is a joke ($6K for a remap that delivers no extra torque - Td5Inside has possibly missed a marketing opportunity here!) - just buy a D200 and stick a D240 badge on the back.

I remain confident that Tata will have other plans for the Utility market, but I speculate that the most likely outcome is this would be a spin off and not direct from JLR. More like a TLR (Tata Land Rover) brand than a JLR development and it can even come with some of old faults and reliability issues - because if the DNA is correct it will still be loved and they will sell a lot of them. The high volume market can also be profitable as Ford show with F150.

In the meantime, just recognise not all die-hard LR fans like the direction now being taken - even if we do all get it is about making money not cars. It is not just here in Australia we are seeing this frustration play out. To some extent I think it is a mistake to even use the Defender brand name as it is a painful reminder of what is now missing from the LR brand. Don't expect many old LR owners waving at New Defenders as they come down the road - although some may be waving to warn you that you have a box falling off the side of the vehicle - heh heh.

The New Defender will be a success, not because it is a Defender, but because it takes the Discovery down the correct path. If I ever get a New Defender (would now be second hand and not new) - my first upgrade would be to remove D E F E N D E R off the front bonnet and replace with D I S C O V E R Y. Then it will look correct. The New Defender - The Best Discovery ever made!.

[Eevo]

The New Defender - The Best Discovery ever made!.

How Much Have You Had to Drink Today Sir?

[DiscoDB]

How Much Have You Had to Drink Today Sir?

Brilliant - not enough apparently!

[blackrangie]

BR - your membership to the JLR fan club is appreciated, but it has been stated by JLR that they have no current production plans to make a ute and whilst you are correct it has not been ruled out - gee anything is possible - a high level insider confirming to a journalist that development of a ute option has been cancelled at this point in time is I am sure pretty accurate and based on facts. Your constant dismissing of peoples frustration with the path JLR is taking just shows a lack of empathy - very similar level of response coming out of JLR. It is interesting that LR purist have been as passionately annoyed with the New Discovery as others are with the New Defender for pretty much all the same reasons. The New Defender is about winning D3/D4 owners back over as they realise we are more likely to now spend money on retaining our current vehicles than buy a New Discovery. I am sure you will love your New Defender and there will be plenty of posts and pictures shown.

I personally believe we will now see a re-resurgence in upgrade mods being offered for the D3/D4 as this makes a good platform for customisation, along with more people who will now hold on to their old Defenders. Right now owning a D3 or 4 along with a old 90 or 110 would be a good combination. I even expect dual cab conversions for the D3/D4 will become more common as it is relatively easy to do (thanks to the body on chassis design). It is like Land Rover developed this brilliant integrated body on chassis design with so much options for different variations (beyond the wagon) but never took it to the next level. They got it right with the RRC when they used hand-me down parts and tooling to make the D1 for low development cost with new engine options and it was a winner that hit the right balance between old tech foundations and new ideas at the right price. The D2 went on to be the best RRC ever in either V8 or Td5 version - and even when new it was a bargain for what you got.

JLR current focus is on the next replacement Range Rover, and then on entering the luxury car (not SUV) space with a RR crossover. They want to be a boutique manufacturer of bespoke relatively low volume high margin branded products - sold to people who buy as a fashion statement - like people who think LR branded mud-flaps are important. The New Defender is thankfully a step in the right direction for those that want a highly capable 4WD family wagon - and keeps the dream alive for some of us. The smart money would be to stick with the base model and minimise the options and not fall for the bling on offer. Even charging $6K just to go from D200 to D240 is a joke ($6K for a remap that delivers no extra torque - Td5Inside has possibly missed a marketing opportunity here!) - just buy a D200 and stick a D240 badge on the back.

I remain confident that Tata will have other plans for the Utility market, but I speculate that the most likely outcome is this would be a spin off and not direct from JLR. More like a TLR (Tata Land Rover) brand than a JLR development and it can even come with some of old faults and reliability issues - because if the DNA is correct it will still be loved and they will sell a lot of them. The high volume market can also be profitable as Ford show with F150.

In the meantime, just recognise not all die-hard LR fans like the direction now being taken - even if we do all get it is about making money not cars. It is not just here in Australia we are seeing this frustration play out. To some extent I think it is a mistake to even use the Defender brand name as it is a painful reminder of what is now missing from the LR brand. Don't expect many old LR owners waving at New Defenders as they come down the road - although some may be waving to warn you that you have a box falling off the side of the vehicle - heh heh.

The New Defender will be a success, not because it is a Defender, but because it takes the Discovery down the correct path. If I ever get a New Defender (would now be second hand and not new) - my first upgrade would be to remove D E F E N D E R off the front bonnet and replace with D I S C O V E R Y. Then it will look correct. The New Defender - The Best Discovery ever made!.

Nice long story and little public shaming session haha some good points though, If someone refutes something ususually the first thing people do is attack (saying im a member of the JLR fanclub??)no empathy by pointing out that article is factless, mate come on?? Me taking the time out of my day to post up that the naysayers may be wrong and that there may be a Ute after all is very empathetic to the cause.

As i said before the first article is completely factless, the "insider" is nameless and could be anyone who is not in the loop (NDA) and is note aware of the ute project or its codename.

My "insider" (dealer) says I'm very confident a ute is on the way from what ive seen. I don't give that any weight though.

I do give weight though as above to 2 articles where 2 JLR reps said on record a Ute is being considered and 1 said definitely.

100% we may not see a ute, will i care personslly, no, will i care for others that wanted a JLR ute yes if they cant make do with a covered one? Yes (110 or 130 wagon) However the facts currently point much more to we will see one than wont.

So no I'm not shutting people down and not letting them vent their frustrations, I was correcting misinformation that started a whole thread of whinging about something that is factless. Forums allow both sides of the argument.

Your welcome to put a discovery badge on your new defender, for me i will rightfully be keeping mine front and centre. The new defender is in so many ways more defender than the old one, capability, durability, driveability, quality, strength etc.(my opinion) Others will say the old one is more (for different reasons) and they can be right too.

Let me know when you find out the answers to the following and have compared these stats to the last gen defender.

Why can the luggage box can only be fitted to the drivers side

What angles will the rear door stay open?

Can you use the dash to push the car in neutral?

How many design cues point to the previous gen defender?

Can you winch off the dash grab handle?

How many tonnes of force can go through the body upwards?

How many tonnes can front and rear recovery points take?

How much load can the roof take?

Is the interior washout?

What angles can it drive on?

How much water can it wade and how long can it sit in it if you get stuck? Can you open the doors mid crossing if you start to float?

How much of the defender is new compared to the discovery for example?

Hope this helps and i hope you get your ute.

[DiscoDB]

All good contributions BR - just show some more understanding for why some (if not many) are disappointed with the direction JLR are taking. None of us have to agree with each other.

I am a Disco person myself and think the New Defender is brilliant but I get why so many feel they now miss out. Two new models now have turned LR lovers against each other.

P.s - edit: and I hope we do get a low cost entry point Ute - but I suspect it will take some pretty vocal campaigning from the LR fan base to make this happen.

[Bigbjorn]

Those of you who are wondering why JLR, a small volume manufacturer, has gone totally into the luxury market need to read "My Years with General Motors" by Alfred Sloan. Sloan gives the example of building a Chevrolet for $x and selling it it for 1.5x against building a Cadillac for 1.5x or 2x and selling it for 3x or 4x. I don't remember the figures he used and don't have time to peruse my copy to find them. This is why every automobile manufacturer on the planet now has a luxury line or division even the ones who previously only made ****box family cars.

[scarry]

All good contributions BR - but just
show some more understanding for why some (if not many) are disappointed with the direction JLR are taking.


Why be disappointed,thats the way they have gone,and thats it.

Some being disappointed won't help anyone.

JLR don't give a hoot,they have moved on,and are not going to make any changes because a few are disappointed with what they produce today.

If they didn't move on in the direction they are going,they wouldn't be here anymore.

If they have vehicles that don't suit someone,then there are many other brands to choose from.

Times change,regulations change,safety,emissions,the market place,etc,etc,etc,etc,its all changing,and has changed immensely over the years.

They are producing luxury SUV's,as they seem to be called these days.

Back to the ute,from what i have heard its dead,from a good source,but others say the opposite,thats fine,lets see what happens.

I personally think they would be better putting more R&D into the existing range they have,than developing a vehicle for a highly competitive segment of the market that is already flooded with numerous brands,not just here,but world wide.

LR would need to have a very good business case to develop a Ute,even if it was 'relatively easy' due to using existing vehicle platforms.

[DiscoDB]

Again - all post above make good points.

Given the demand for Dual Cab utes (globally except for Europe it seems) you have to have to think it could be a higher volume money maker. I recall reading somewhere that Ford make US$30K profit on every F150 they sell and it sells big volumes.

It is also about having a lowish cost entry point that buys brand loyalty. People will then upgrade and move up the ladder as they can afford to.

The New Defender front end even looks like it was designed to be a Ute - a dual cab would be a good looking and tough vehicle and certainly take on Amarok or Ranger. Probably even sell at a higher margin as well.

I personally prefer the wagon style - but for me the hero work horse version would be a dual cab - not the 90 (sorry little fella).

But all the comments that JLR are moving away from volume and focusing on the premium end are correct. This is the strategy they are banking on and it will no doubt be a success.

Interesting JLR have gone from record sales and high profits to recording a massive loss. They are making some big investments to turn this around and I do wish them success at this.

[blackrangie]

All good contributions BR - just show some more understanding for why some (if not many) are disappointed with the direction JLR are taking. None of us have to agree with each other.

I am a Disco person myself and think the New Defender is brilliant but I get why so many feel they now miss out. Two new models now have turned LR lovers against each other.

P.s - edit: and I hope we do get a low cost entry point Ute - but I suspect it will take some pretty vocal campaigning from the LR fan base to make this happen.

So its understanding about the direction JLR are going that i need to show or empathy they are not (but probably are) making a ute and people are disappointed haha [emoji6].

I am extremely happy with the direction LR is going with the new defender, i never wanted to buy the old one.

I dont see anyone turned against eachother, i just see another D3, D2 situation that will be forgotten in 2 years.

JLRA are on record of saying they are ordering a few of the commercials to evaluate when they are ready.

If they do a ute, for sure there will be a commercial varrient as it lends itself to that.

Commercial will be cheaper than 90 which is cheaper than 110, ute cheaper again imo.

Also AU defenders are overspecced currently, we will see a lower entry later when more options come avail.

[blackrangie]

Again - all post above make good points.

Given the demand for Dual Cab utes (globally except for Europe it seems) you have to have to think it could be a higher volume money maker. I recall reading somewhere that Ford make US$30K profit on every F150 they sell and it sells big volumes.

It is also about having a lowish cost entry point that buys brand loyalty. People will then upgrade and move up the ladder as they can afford to.

The New Defender front end even looks like it was designed to be a Ute - a dual cab would be a good looking and tough vehicle and certainly take on Amarok or Ranger. Probably even sell at a higher margin as well.

I personally prefer the wagon style - but for me the hero work horse version would be a dual cab - not the 90 (sorry little fella).

But all the comments that JLR are moving away from volume and focusing on the premium end are correct. This is the strategy they are banking on and it will no doubt be a success.

Interesting JLR have gone from record sales and high profits to recording a massive loss. They are making some big investments to turn this around and I do wish them success at this.Actually they are back in profit this year.

Why Jaguar Land Rover is back in profit | Autocar (https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/why-jaguar-land-rover-back-profit)

$290 million dollars profit last quarter pre tax.

[DiscoDB]

I just see another D3, D2 situation that will be forgotten in 2 years.

Yep - that’s a good example. I still grieve for letting my D2 “Red Dog” go - had from new and was part of the family for 14 years.

But the D3 “Hippo” bought second hand is still loved despite being a maintenance money pit. When I picked up the D3, the daughter of the first owner (same age as the car) was in tears as we drove it away.

That’s the passion us LR tragics have.

The time gap between Old Defender and New Defender has not helped either. Looking forward to see how it evolves and what the Series 2 New Defender brings.

[mox]

If Land Rover does not propose to produce a ute version of the new Defender in the near future, would not surprise me if someone in Australia creates one from a wagon. If this then attracted enough interest, vehicle body builders or Land Rover would probably produce more. Think of car to ute conversions that have seen and /or heard of. I remember seeing a Mercedes. Also a Rambler - think it was a Classic. A Volkswagen beetle with a flat tray back - of course high for the size of vehicle as flat four motor underneath. Then remember hearing a story of a cocky - think a Victorian Western District grazier back when they were overall more affluent than now who had a Rolls Royce made into a ute.

Also, remembering that auto transmissions are often favoured over manuals until they get older and start having expensive problems. probably Australia is one of the first places where replacing it with a manual one would be carried out if not too difficult. As there have been a few older Defenders converted to autos, which LR did not provide, maybe would be some demand for an appropriate manual conversion for the new ones . Possibly the 6 speed Getrag as used in Puma Defenders with Ford motors if adapter bits to make it fit are practicable. Have heard that in some vehicles in the USA they have been used behind V8's so strength should not be a problem.

[DiscoDB]

If Land Rover does not propose to produce a ute version of the new Defender in the near future, would not surprise me if someone in Australia creates one from a wagon.

I can also imagine JLR Special Vehicle Operations also getting the green light to make something in a limited run as a marketing / promo opportunity. It would be a ridiculous price but would showcase what could be done.

[manic]

I tend to skim read every now and again.

From this thread I have gleaned the following:

- land rover are now known as a small company

- they lack the capacity to create a car that can appeal to both the yuppie and the farmer.

- they can no longer compete in the competitive markets they used to compete in.

- their balls have shrivelled.


Did I miss anything?

[DiscoDB]

Manic - the change is best summarised by JLR’s Chief Commercial Officer:

JLR plans to scale back its sales ambitions in favor of profits. The plan had been to focus on being a more boutique manufacturer that has the power to entice customers without the need for a discount, Braeutigam said.

“We feel our brands are so premium, so exclusive, that we want to create demand, not push supply,” he said.

Translated - pretentious profit takers.

[Bigbjorn]

Land Rover was never a high volume manufacturer. Their annual output was not much more than a morning's work at Chevrolet. Refer to my post No. 69 in this thread. Why reserve some of a miniscule production capacity for lower price & lower profit vehicles when you can use this capacity to make high profit luxury cars. The dividends and the bottom line are what matters.

[blackrangie]

I tend to skim read every now and again.

From this thread I have gleaned the following:

- land rover are now known as a small company

- they lack the capacity to create a car that can appeal to both the yuppie and the farmer.

- they can no longer compete in the competitive markets they used to compete in.

- their balls have shrivelled.


Did I miss anything?

Wow, im guessing by skimming through threads you missed the whole release of one of potentially the best offroaders on the planet by LR on Sept 10 thats both commercial and high end in the same car [emoji14][emoji1787]. Maybe skimming threads is not such a good idea.

[blackrangie]

Manic - the change is best summarised by JLR’s Chief Commercial Officer:

JLR plans to scale back its sales ambitions in favor of profits. The plan had been to focus on being a more boutique manufacturer that has the power to entice customers without the need for a discount, Braeutigam said.

“We feel our brands are so premium, so exclusive, that we want to create demand, not push supply,” he said.

Translated - pretentious profit takers.Its smart business, dont make loads of rubbish like great wall, make enough great products to make good profit.

[manic]

Brand integrity has value.

Land rover built an iconic brand for adventure and utility. Range Rover for luxury.

Three solid pillars which supported everything they sold.


Now two of the pillars have been replaced with fresh styrofoam

They have:
Luxury , Leisure , Dual purpose.

---

I can have a luxury drive in a Mercedes

I can have a leisurely drive in a Lotus Elise.

And what are the dual purposes they speak of?

---


They have all their eggs in one big SUV basket. And the pillars that set their range apart from the likes of BMW/Lexus/Mercedes have gone.

They need the Defender to provide some integrity. If it doesn't offer some utility beyond the other SUV offerings, and SUV sales start to dip - Tata might be jumping ship in the not too distant future! The new defender is that important IMO.

I know some on here are already convinced Land Rover have got it right. I am yet to be convinced. I will be happy if we start to see it succeed as a service/utility vehicle.

[blackrangie]

Brand integrity has value.

Land rover built an iconic brand for adventure and utility. Range Rover for luxury.

Three solid pillars which supported everything they sold.


Now two of the pillars have been replaced with fresh styrofoam

They have:
Luxury , Leisure , Dual purpose.

---

I can have a luxury drive in a Mercedes

I can have a leisurely drive in a Lotus Elise.

And what are the dual purposes they speak of?

---


They have all their eggs in one big SUV basket. And the pillars that set their range apart from the likes of BMW/Lexus/Mercedes have gone.

They need the Defender to provide some integrity. If it doesn't convince and SUV sales dip- Tata might be jumping ship in the not too distant future! The new defender is that important IMO

I know some on here are already convinced Land Rover have got it right. I am yet to be convinced. I will be happy to see it succeed as a service/utility vehicle.Dual purpose is what i want, i don't want to drive a brick around OZ, i want to drive hard tracks, i want to drive in durable comfort and i want my wife and i to be safe at the same time.
LR nailed it with the new defender for me, i would have never bought the old one. Just my opinion for my needs.

[manic]

Yes , but I think globally there are more people who need to throw some stuff in the back of a ute than drive off-road for fun.

You and the wife will love the new purchase I am sure. It should also take you everywhere your Rangie has. Please post some videos of it on the hard tracks! Do you have a delivery ETA yet?

[blackrangie]

Yes , but I think globally there are more people who need to throw some stuff in the back of a ute than drive off-road for fun.

You and the wife will love the new purchase I am sure. It should also take you everywhere your Rangie has. Please post some videos of it on the hard tracks! Do you have a delivery ETA yet?Maybe, but most can make do with a covered ute would you not agree.

And have the security to park anywhere avoiding sticky fingers + ability to take up to 7 passengers and 8 with 130.

It covers most bases.

Who knows in 2 years we may see a 90/110/130 ute

Heres some screenshots of an old DC100 video, utes were on the drawing board from day 1.

I'm not worried too much about ETA, based on what I've heard from rumours, maybe somewhere between Q1 and Q2 2020

Hugely excited!



https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191110/b3afe92220d2a5a0d31aae18971ef30d.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191110/1099244ee7d5e88198ac8fdf2a5b7c61.jpg

[ozscott]

The Bronco Sport/LR Defender

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191110/0e670d219613f469b4cdc40f39cee7d9.jpg

[blackrangie]

The Bronco Sport/LR Defender

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191110/0e670d219613f469b4cdc40f39cee7d9.jpgI reckon, imo the bronco has some very similar lines based off the buggy [emoji1787]

[Eevo]

looks like a nissan cube

[DiscoDB]

looks like a nissan cube

....and then there is the cubed Nissan Cube for Eevo and his minions.....

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191110/046992c047b1843c4d62eb35bc7274a8.jpg

Sorry Eevo - I have been drinking too much again....

[theelms66]

Looks like Herman Munster's head.

[ozscott]

That Bronco and Defender 2 are a dead ringer. The Ford badge isn't doing much for me but it will be interesting to see them together. Cheers

[Bigbjorn]

When I was at Leyland T&B in the 1970's more than half of Land Rover sales were cab & chassis with PMC dropside body. Most were sold to primary producers. Recreational new vehicle sales were miniscule. Most other sales were to government and semi-government bodies. Recreational buyers bought second-hand vehicles for their fishing, touring, and camping vehicles. Nowadays recreational and life style buyers are cashed up and buy new luxury and expensive Discos and RR's. In the 70's RR's were mostly sold to business and professional people. Very popular with the medical profession. Buy a tax deductible RR to drive out to the likewise tax deductible vineyards and stud farms.

[DazzaTD5]

IMO, Mercedes cheapened their brand entering this market

IMHO, while Mercedes was part of iconic motoring history, since late 1800's. Mercedes now is nothing more than poorly built unreliable rubbish.

[Eevo]

IMHO, while Mercedes was part of iconic motoring history, since late 1800's. Mercedes now is nothing more than poorly built unreliable rubbish.

they are used as taxi's in germany

[Rob66]

yup .. Merc's are taxis in Germany .. was there recently. Most common taxis are Mercedes and VW. Mainstream cars for sure. Not premium

[ozscott]

There are a lot more premium Mercs etc in Germany the here. The price of A6 and A8 Audis here make them prohibitive whereas they are much more common in Germany. The low end Euros here really are ordinary. Mazda 3 for example is a much better car at any price compared to small Merc, BMW Audi etc.

There is a saying in Germany that you buy a Mercedes you buy the road...

But the most common cars are VW and Audi in Germany. They are very parochial about their car industry. I know a tech there who drives a Mazda to and from the Merc factory for a reason [emoji1787]. German autos don't lead like they did in the 70's and 80's.

Cheers

[DiscoDB]

BMW and Mercedes must be doing something right as they each sell over 2.5 million vehicles a year which is 1.5 to 2 times more than what they sold 10 years ago.

I always expected JLR to take on BMW and Mercedes with a strong brand of cars across Jaguar, Land Rover, and Range Rover but apparently JLR can’t compete on sales despite having the better products. Hence the change to compete as a low volume boutique brand instead.

[cripesamighty]

The difference between Mercedes and Land Rover is that Mercedes sells less and less of its high end cars each year and has relied on the low end. I recall John Cadogan crunching the numbers a while ago.

[AK83]

The difference between Mercedes and Land Rover is .....

Actually the main difference between them is psychological.
Mercedes(and BMW) shift to high priced, higher end products but actually improved their standing in the community about perceived quality.
Whether the quality is there no longer matters .. people now assume that the quality of their vehicles is solid.

LR tried to go more upmarket with all their products too, but they just couldn't get quality right.
That in itself isn't the problem .. the aftermath .. support subsequently failed them too.
If they had some decent support for the issues, I doubt that most people would view the products as unreliable.

Yesterday at work the other new guy(we're the new trainees) asked if I've had any issues with my D1.
I'm thinking ... odd question to ask about a vehicle.
It's obvious that this is on some folks minds. I'm sure had it been a cruiser or patrol, his question would have been more along the lines of ... "is it good off road, do you go off road much" etc.

And no!!! .. it hasn't had any issues. It's had wear and tear items expected of a vehicle at 400K klms, and it survived an incompetent mechanic's(that's me) attempt to kill it ... was basically my answer.

No matter how good any Defer ute could have been .. could have been indestructible, the average punter would never have bought it. They're toyota/nissan/ford brides now.
Any $s spend on development of such a vehicle .. to sell a couple thousand per year = bad investment, especially at a time when all new car sales aren't doing so well around the globe.
I recently read that the US market is down about the same rate as we are.

LR need to lift their game, both, their quality AND customer service.
If people want an entertainment system that doesn't fail on them so that JD Power can raise it's reliability standing .. then that's what they need to do.

[ozscott]

BMW and Mercedes must be doing something right as they each sell over 2.5 million vehicles a year which is 1.5 to 2 times more than what they sold 10 years ago.

I always expected JLR to take on BMW and Mercedes with a strong brand of cars across Jaguar, Land Rover, and Range Rover but apparently JLR can’t compete on sales despite having the better products. Hence the change to compete as a low volume boutique brand instead.They certainly know how to advertise. It's brand snobbery at its best. They look beautiful too...anesthetics is such a big part of the equation. The high end ones still made in Germany are desirable but the cost to Australians is huge.

Cheers

[DiscoDB]

No matter how good any Defer ute could have been .. could have been indestructible, the average punter would never have bought it. They're toyota/nissan/ford brides now.
Any $s spend on development of such a vehicle .. to sell a couple thousand per year = bad investment, especially at a time when all new car sales aren't doing so well around the globe.


I guess we will never know for now.

The incremental cost to offer a more complete range of body styles on the new platform shouldn't have been that cost prohibitive, it would have been respectful of the past but not limited by it, and the potential additional sales could easily be 50,000 plus globally as it would have not only have been a tough and highly capable vehicle that you would see everywhere (globally), but it could have retained a lower cost entry point whilst still having the premium wagon versions on offer.

JLR are banking on making more profits from decreased sales volumes but this can only go so far. I am sure they will commit at some point in the future but for now it seems they are happy to be a very small player in a very big market. That is a lot of overhead and development costs that has to be spread over a diminishing volume base.

[blackrangie]

LR need to lift their game, both, their quality AND customer service.
If people want an entertainment system that doesn't fail on them so that JD Power can raise it's reliability standing .. then that's what they need to do.

They have by 180% over the last 20 years until 2016 model year(current model surveyed), they were most improved over last year in the US. They match Toyota in the UK for reliability (not that they are reliable 4x4s atm).

Starting with the new Defender
The entertainment system has been completely redesigned to be like a high end mobile phone that gets better over time.

The whole car will fix issues without dealer visits and before most users know they exist.

Imo LR don't need to lift their game, they have and continue to do so, they just need to keep on the path of improvement they are on.

At the same time in context with this thread, Toyota's diesel 4x4s (not cars) seem to be going the other direction at the same time with multiple fundamental reliability issues that have not been fixed, showing a strange lack of care for the Australian Toyota buyer market.

[DiscoMick]

Mercedes appear to be trying to take an image of high quality down market, with mixed results. The Mercedes ute just seems to be a tarted up Nissan.
BMW and Audi still have a high quality image.
Jaguar makes lovely cars, but needs to sell a lot more.
LR quality seems to have risen a lot.
It's been said that LR needs to sell a lot of high profit models to be able to afford to make workhorses. Unfortunately the new Defender is another luxury SUV, not a workhorse. Lovely thing, but not a work truck. Missed opportunity.

[DiscoDB]

Spot the Pretender.....

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191113/1d965304b8d9545dc52c2f987ff0af96.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191113/e5060c7f165ac720895ebdc59ca6762d.jpg

...gotta love the internet for giving us fake photo’s and false hope.

[INter674]

More speculation?...heard the other day that Toyota plans to axe the LC300 series in the US in 2025.

Looks like the days of the big lumbering SUV are coming to an end....well 'cept for the cheeze burger stuffing American brands that will lumber on until the Fed support runs out☺

[blackrangie]

Spot the Pretender.....

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191113/1d965304b8d9545dc52c2f987ff0af96.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191113/e5060c7f165ac720895ebdc59ca6762d.jpg

...gotta love the internet for giving us fake photo’s and false hope.Well you were given factual hope on record from LR from the interweb [emoji1787]

[DiscoDB]

True. More the picture above (not from JLR) implied they had a prototype based on the 130 under testing. Don’t recall reading it was a mock up only.

[ausGeoff]

Even if the LR came in a ute body, would it be imported downunder—considering they'd probably only sell
one a month in a limited marketplace? Let's face it; no Aussie framer would buy one. They'd only sell to
the poseurs, and never leave the bitumen, let alone throwing a dead sheep carcass into the tray LOL.

[ozscott]

Even if the LR came in a ute body, would it be imported downunder—considering they'd probably only sell
one a month in a limited marketplace? Let's face it; no Aussie framer would buy one. They'd only sell to
the poseurs, and never leave the bitumen, let alone throwing a dead sheep carcass into the tray LOL.I think there is as much chance that a farmer would buy a Jeep Gladiator [emoji1787][emoji1787]. Actually no there is probably more chance that a farmer would buy the Gladiator if he was forced to choose. That horse (the out back, bushies, farmer market) has long bolted for Land Rover. If we are realists we must accept that horse isn't coming back with the Defender 2 in any guise.

Cheers

[Gregz]

"Help me, Obi-Wan Defender. You're my only hope." ...........
.................
...........
...(crickets)

[Sleepy]

Yeah well I loved my Defenders but when missus and I decided to get a Trayon camper I needed a Ute . We looked at a 130 but thought it might be nice to have a few safety features . 70 cruiser? ....nah I decided to get a 2013 BT50 as a stop gap until the new defender Ute is available. Oh wait , wtf??? Looks like I’m joining the hoard - it’s a nice Ute but it’s not a defender . Would have surely bought a defender Ute as my retirement vehicle were they to exist. So it’s a 2013 BT50 until something better comes along (VW, Ford, Ram....Jeep??? Oh ffs they’re all so boring)

[rick130]

Let's face it; no Aussie framer would buy one. They'd only sell to
the poseurs, and never leave the bitumen, let alone throwing a dead sheep carcass into the tray LOL.

Ex partners mum loved to tell the story of how when her hubby asked her father for her hand he drove the prospective SIL down the paddock in the near new Roller and dissected a dead sheep carcass and threw it in the boot. [emoji50]
Mid-late 50's and a true story. [emoji23]

[VladTepes]

Well I've seen a VW Amarok on a trip with mostly Landies in the glasshouse mountains and it went pretty damn well. I was impressed.

So if a Defender isn't an option (again, bastards!) then I recomend anyone looking for a ute try one of those.

[ozscott]

I'm loving my MR Triton. Really nice bit of kit. Feels like it's built to last and last. Surprising off-road and handles extremely well on. Comfortable. Powerful in the real world. Very frugal on diesel. Can have 2 GLS Premiums for 1 Defender 2...

Cheers