Landcruiser Going Downhill in the US

[101RRS]

See this interesting video on the Landcruiser in the US. Range Rover outsells the Land Cruiser by nearly 6 to 1 and there is a prediction that Toyota will stop selling the Landcruiser there in a couple of years.

However there is something that Land Rover should learn from the US Landcruiser's and that is that over the years the only Landcruiser model has been the 100 then 200 series with no 70 series versions - moving more up market and leaving the bottom end. Commentators say a more basic Landcruiser would be a hit something like the 70 series. With the new Defender LR are giving up the basic bottom end market - if it follows the US Landcruiser experience, this could lead to problems in the future.

Also not the most popular countries for the Landcruiser - only a few, Aust at the top - not a lot of countries like the Landcruiser.

An interesting video

YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8RUG1N32MA)

[AK83]

Yeah, that came up on my list of videos(that I usually ignore!)

Piqued my curiosity, and so wanted to check out how Nissan do in the US.
The Patrol there(called the Armarda) does a lot better than the 200 series.

But it's not all roses there either.
Sales per month historically in the mid 2000(2017) range, down to low 2000's(2018) and down to the mid 1000s now in '19.
So they've gone from the high 20K units in '17, down into the low 20K units 2 years later. Much better than the LC at least for them.
The writing seems to be on the wall.

Price appears to be at least 10K less for the Nissan compared to the 200 series, and they also offer a 2WD version for another 10K discount.
Considering most people that buy them won't use the 4WD system, makes sense for the 2WD version.
2019 to date almost as many Infinity versions(QX80) as Armarda's were sold in the US.

BTW Nissan seems to be a bit of bother in the US overall .. sales per year in a 10% or more decline for the past few years.

By way of comparison, Chev Suburban sells in quantity, and seems to maintain a steady support base. ~ 55-60K units per year in recent years.

[101RRS]

The vid highlights that the Australian market for the Landcruiser is skewed and is not representative for the rest of the world. Silly Landcruiser owners here think that Australian sales are replicated throughout the world which it is not the case.

[rick130]

The vid highlights that the Australian market for the Landcruiser is skewed and is not representative for the rest of the world. Silly Landcruiser owners here think that Australian sales are replicated throughout the world which it is not the case.That vid was a bit of an eye opener for me.
I always thought Australia and the Middle East were the two biggest markets, but didn't realise we are actually #1

[Arapiles]

I've seen US reviews of the LC200 and they panned it - heavy, sluggish, poor on fuel. That said, some people have been importing 70 series SWBs from Japan.

[scarry]

Silly Landcruiser owners here think that Australian sales are replicated throughout the world which it is not the case.

If you have a look on the numerous LC forums,you will see thats not correct.

I think the sales figure for Aus on the Vid are incorrect.They may also include Prado,but i would be surprised if they were 42K for 2018.

The issue in Aus,is the fact the LC only really has itself as competition.

Over many years it has been handed the market by other manufacturers.

Many say the 70 is going,but that has been said for the last 10yrs.

It could easily be around for another 10,in many markets,if it keeps up with safety,and emission regulations.

In Africa,it is the go to vehicle,still bought new with the 1HZ.

[scarry]

I've seen US reviews of the LC200 and they panned it - heavy, sluggish, poor on fuel. That said, some people have been importing 70 series SWBs from Japan.

FWIW,i recently saw a long term test report by some well known large Auto mob in the US,of a new RR Velar.

Quite a few issues,many returns to the dealer for repairs,and not a great report for the manufacturer at all,in fact quite the opposite.

It actually surprised me as i though LR's quality control was pretty well sorted these days,but that report and the other surveys seem to indicate the opposite.[bigsad]

[blackrangie]

With the new Defender LR are giving up the basic bottom end market - if it follows the US Landcruiser experience, this could lead to problems in the future.


I don't see this to be fair to LR.

Currently there is a mildly stripped out 110 avail in the US, speedo dials instead of screen, steel wheels for US49k

90 will prob come in at US40k in similar spec.

When additional options drop next year such as coil spring susp and other options will be optional so maybe base of US35k on the 90

Then there is the commercial even lower and so on.

LR have positioned the defender as a premium product but allowed it to be priced from volume buyers right through to high end.

I had a good look at a base prado at a dealer the other day and you could not pay me to be in that thing, the smell of it after being in the sun all day, the seats, the floor, the look etc.
I compare that to pics of the base defender and its chalk and cheese.
The GXL Kakadu was better but still nothing special.

Comparing the carlike Landcruiser dash and the dash of the new defender, i don't think they will have any problems in the states or anywhere.

The 110 will be a hit, the 90 will be a hit.




https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191109/607e0c3d295da8fe344af882f1a9ae79.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191109/255af450a735e0155b65d921aec67e7c.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191109/4b04810f6ba5db28d2eed978fcdf214f.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191109/75c1f808bb05f6df5afb32f92feab55b.jpg

[Tote]

It's nearly impossible to compare the US car market with Australia. Even if the US imported the 70 series it would be laughed out of the market if proposed as a "serious " work vehicle. The urban market in the US is similar to Australia with "mid size" vehicles being the norm but once you are out of the cities the full size pickups rule, usually with a large lift and other dodgy modifications. In the 4wd off road market the Jeep Wrangler pretty much is the go to for technical offloading but in the south offroading comprises of driving in swamps where the big pickups with a 8 inch lift are preferred.
I drove an Armada from New York to Washington in August and it was ok but only 2 wheel (rear) drive so Armada sales are not really a reflection of competition for the 200 series. I think in 4 weeks over there I might have seen a couple of 100 series so Toyota 4wds are very much a niche market. Plenty of Klugers though.
The bottom end of the 4wd market in the US is a GMC/Ftruck/Chev with a v6 and a hose out interior, not somewhere the Defender would be playing anyway.

The mighty Armada

155480

Typical full size pickup, these are by no means uncommon with a lift like this

155481


Regards,
Tote

[Arapiles]

FWIW,i recently saw a long term test report by some well known large Auto mob in the US,of a new RR Velar.

Quite a few issues,many returns to the dealer for repairs,and not a great report for the manufacturer at all,in fact quite the opposite.

It actually surprised me as i though LR's quality control was pretty well sorted these days,but that report and the other surveys seem to indicate the opposite.[bigsad]


Nup, the D5 had lots of issues (screens, air con and oil dilution), none of which should've been present in a production vehicle.

They seem to be doing what Holden and Ford used to do, using the buying public as part of their final test programme.

[blackrangie]

Nup, the D5 had lots of issues (screens, air con and oil dilution), none of which should've been present in a production vehicle.

They seem to be doing what Holden and Ford used to do, using the buying public as part of their final test programme.The velar reporter admitted they were minor but annoying(infotainment im guessing) which has been completely revamped for def.
Oil Dilution or (early warning of oil dilution) is much better than the competitors DPF imo. Since 2017 LR have been open about the system and what servicing is needed from the customer.
The way the system is designed will dilute oil, hence the sensor to show it, when it first was introduced,most of the talk was due to the sensor activating earlier than it should have, even though oil dilution was not present, fixed by update. (Early warning issue)

[Arapiles]

Having watched it that video needs to taken with a grain of salt - it's referring solely to the LC200 in the USA but for countries like Australia, with that figure of 40,000 + vehicles it quotes, it appears to be counting all vehicles with the Land Cruiser name, including the Prado:

"Last year, Australia retained its global leadership with 42,267 LandCruiser sales across all three variants (Prado: 18,553, 200 Series: 13,677, 70 Series: 10,037)."

Toyota LandCruiser hits 10 million global sales, passes 1 million in Australia | CarAdvice (https://www.caradvice.com.au/795004/toyota-landcruiser-hits-10-million-global-sales-passes-1-million-in-australia/)

LC200 sales in Australia are 13,677.

[rick130]

Having watched it that video needs to taken with a grain of salt - it's referring solely to the LC200 in the USA but for countries like Australia, with that figure of 40,000 + vehicles it quotes, it appears to be counting all vehicles with the Land Cruiser name, including the Prado:

"Last year, Australia retained its global leadership with 42,267 LandCruiser sales across all three variants (Prado: 18,553, 200 Series: 13,677, 70 Series: 10,037)."

Toyota LandCruiser hits 10 million global sales, passes 1 million in Australia | CarAdvice (https://www.caradvice.com.au/795004/toyota-landcruiser-hits-10-million-global-sales-passes-1-million-in-australia/)

LC200 sales in Australia are 13,677.But they only get the 200 Series in the US and that's the point made in the video, that if they got a selection of model variants sales would potentially be much larger

[blackrangie]

But they only get the 200 Series in the US and that's the point made in the video, that if they got a selection of model variants sales would potentially be much largerThey have plenty of other toyota 4x4 in the US, petrol based, if people liked the LC200 enough there would be more models brought like AU.
When they kill the 8 for the cruiser in the states it will be pulled imo.