Antique Carpenters brace

[gromit]

Found a very early carpenters brace at a Trash & Treasure market today.

I've seen pictures of them but never seen one 'in the flesh'.
It's missing the medallion on the knob and some of the ivory inlay is damaged but otherwise not too bad a condition.

It's a Rob Marples Ultimatum.


Colin

[Don 130]

I've got my dad's one, complete with all the bits in a canvas tool roll. Not as old as yours though.
Don

[4bee]

Looks like a good find Groms. What age would you put on it?

When my old Dad died I was able to get my hands on to my grandfather's Wooden toolbox which contained a lot of tools around that vintage as he used to make artificial limbs for Ex WW1 soldiers.

BUT, a couple of my Bros got to it before me & scavenged, AKA stole :rolleyes:, most of the tools.
The box was then left out in the weather until it was all sorted out.

Out of that lot I was able to retrieve two wooden Jack planes & a few other minor tools, a shaped wooden Spoke- shave, a mallet, but not much else except the toolbox 36" x 20"which I have since restored to what I believe was "original" condition following the available rotted remains.

[gromit]

Looks like a good find Groms. What age would you put on it?



Some time in the 1800's but need to do some more research. It's made from brass & lignum vitae whereas all the other more modern ones I have use a steel frame and a proper chuck.

I have a lot of woodworking tools but mostly from boot sales in the UK and Trash & Treasure markets here.
They are used (not as often as I'd like) on various projects. I'm on my 4th traditional rocking horse (actually a zebra this time) and to help with carving the horses I'm on the lookout for a drawknife, I already have plenty of spokeshaves.

I've finished a pole lathe (must get round to trying it out) and a shave horse. Problem is life & other projects seem to get in the way......


Colin

[4bee]

I can't imagine what chuck would have been on that as the only other type I have see is a Split Clamp with a bolt & a wingnut to tighten it. I'm sure you would know what it needs.
I can't help with a Draw Knife though, the only times I have seen one used is by Cricket Bat makers in the UK on Willow.

No doubt you have looked here...vintage drawknife | eBay (https://www.ebay.com.au/sch/i.html?_nkw=vintage%20drawknife)

[gromit]

I can't imagine what chuck would have been on that as the only other type I have see is a Split Clamp with a bolt & a wingnut to tighten it. I'm sure you would know what it needs.



There may be something missing on the brace, again I need to do some more research.
It has a socket to take the tapered square shank on old style drills. There must have been some sort of locking mechanism to hold it in place.

Thanks for the link, there are lots of drawknives available in the US but there must be some in Australia !


Colin

[4bee]

Mmmmmmm, not necessarily, Colin. Remember the Morse Taper drill bits? They were held in purely by friction of the taper & I suppose the upwards pressure from the work piece & they were, in my experience, driven faster than you ever could with a brace & the largest I ever used was for drilling Compressor parts, & would have been about 3/4" diam.

I'm not sure now whether was a square-ish top end to the drill though. Too any years have passed me by for that detail.



Ah, Google tells me there was. Bugger![bigsad]

[JDNSW]

Wood bits traditionally have a tapered square shank, and my guess is that it probably never had anything to keep the bit in, relying on drilling pressure to keep the bit in, and the user to grab it with his spare hand as the pressure was taken off.

Good find Colin - like you I have seen pictures of one like this, but never actually seen one.

[gromit]

\

Good find Colin - like you I have seen pictures of one like this, but never actually seen one.

John,
Had a look on Ebay and they fetch a good price so not sure what to do with it now, probably add it to the collection (only cost $4 !).

Seems to be produced under Rob Marples and William Marples name. I know Marples from planes etc I own and it seems William Junior & Rob Junior were cousins. I wonder why it was sold under different names ?


Colin

[4bee]

Well for $4 you have a bit of history albeit an unknown one. Where will you find another one? They aren't made anymore.

I had a look at another brace (a more modern one that I actually purchased after my Dad passed away) that was tucked away in the shed. I see what you mean about the Tapered Square, I had forgotten that. The bit was clamped in by a threaded ring nut which wound up & down & gripping the shank.

This also had a Ratchet movement, both directions. Brand..... STANLEY.

[Xtreme]

I used to enjoy watching one of the workers in my dads boat building factory while he did the initial shaping of the balsa surfboards using a draw knife. Started off with three 6 x 4 lengths of balsa glued together and finished up with a nicely shaped fiberglass covered surfboard.

[JDNSW]

Well for $4 you have a bit of history albeit an unknown one. Where will you find another one? They aren't made anymore.

I had a look at another brace (a more modern one that I actually purchased after my Dad passed away) that was tucked away in the shed. I see what you mean about the Tapered Square, I had forgotten that. The bit was clamped in by a threaded ring nut which wound up & down & gripping the shank.

This also had a Ratchet movement, both directions. Brand..... STANLEY.

This is the type I am familiar with. I have about three of these; they turn up in boxes of stuff I bought at clearing sales because of other things in the box!

[gromit]

This is the type I am familiar with. I have about three of these; they turn up in boxes of stuff I bought at clearing sales because of other things in the box!

I probably have 4 or 5 including my Dad's one. Most, if not all, are Stanley. They turn up at markets for a few dollars

I have drill bits from my Dad, some I purchased in the UK years ago and a couple of rolls of drills picked up at trash & treasure markets. Some I've had to throw because they are beyond re-sharpening due to rust.

I've also collected a few 'eggbeater' drills including a large 2-speed chest drill. I took a small 'eggbeater' drill to work some years back and I got the comment "what the bloody hell is that..." my reply was "a cordless drill...." my colleague started to reply, stopped and then accepted that it was 'a cordless drill'.

We maybe need a thread on woodworking tools because I have 30-40 planes including moulding planes unusual Stanley planes, plough planes, an early Norris (trash & treasure market) etc. etc........


Colin

[4bee]

I probably have 4 or 5 including my Dad's one. Most, if not all, are Stanley. They turn up at markets for a few dollars

I have drill bits from my Dad, some I purchased in the UK years ago and a couple of rolls of drills picked up at trash & treasure markets. Some I've had to throw because they are beyond re-sharpening due to rust.

I've also collected a few 'eggbeater' drills including a large 2-speed chest drill. I took a small 'eggbeater' drill to work some years back and I got the comment "what the bloody hell is that..." my reply was "a cordless drill...." my colleague started to reply, stopped and then accepted that it was 'a cordless drill'.

We maybe need a thread on woodworking tools because I have 30-40 planes including moulding planes unusual Stanley planes, plough planes, an early Norris (trash & treasure market) etc. etc........


Colin


Got any B737s & A380s in your box of tricks? :rolleyes:

The Chest Drill as I recall had provision to be fitted to a normal Pedestal Frame.

Egg beaters were all we had in days of yore.

No Rotary drills for masonry, brick etc.

Just hand bashed Percussion drills bit of various sizes.

Ah, the good old days, eh.

[gromit]

Got any B737s & A380s in your box of tricks? :rolleyes:



I haven't been able to get the back of the shed for a while so maybe.....I look next time I get a minute.

A mate & I went to an airfield in Lincolnshire in the UK many years back to bid on a number of English Electric Lightning's. Disappointing because they removed the engines, ejector seat & instruments before disposal, plus it was something like a 200 hour job to remove the wings for transport by road so most buyers used demo saws.
They did have a twin seater flying round while we were there and using full reheat on takeoff. Not really required but I think they were just showing off !
I have a heap of photos somewhere.


Colin

[4bee]

The next door neighbour of a bloke on a UK LR Forum restored a Harrier Jump Jet & got it running. Couldn't fly it out so believe it went by road.

His next doors did a video of the test run in the bloke's back garden. Wot a bloody racket![biggrin]

[4bee]

I haven't been able to get the back of the shed for a while so maybe.....I look next time I get a minute.

A mate & I went to an airfield in Lincolnshire in the UK many years back to bid on a number of English Electric Lightning's. Disappointing because they removed the engines, ejector seat & instruments before disposal, plus it was something like a 200 hour job to remove the wings for transport by road so most buyers used demo saws.
They did have a twin seater flying round while we were there and using full reheat on takeoff. Not really required but I think they were just showing off !
I have a heap of photos somewhere.


Colin


Didn't that woolly headed bastard Clakson buy one of those for his front Garden?

I seem to recall his 'er indoors got in the act & told him to get rid. I remember him getting it bogged in the mud when trying to position it.


Laugh, I thought I was going to have an Apoplectic fit.[biggrin]

[4bee]

I haven't been able to get the back of the shed for a while so maybe.....I look next time I get a minute.

A mate & I went to an airfield in Lincolnshire in the UK many years back to bid on a number of English Electric Lightning's. Disappointing because they removed the engines, ejector seat & instruments before disposal, plus it was something like a 200 hour job to remove the wings for transport by road so most buyers used demo saws.
They did have a twin seater flying round while we were there and using full reheat on takeoff. Not really required but I think they were just showing off !
I have a heap of photos somewhere.


Colin


Didn't that woolly headed bastard Clakson buy one of those for his front Garden?

I seem to recall his 'er indoors got in the act & told him to get rid. I remember him getting it bogged in the mud & snow when trying to position it.


Laugh, I thought I was going to have an Apoplectic fit.[biggrin]

Bugger, so good it was worth repeating. Not.[bigsad]

[gromit]

Didn't that woolly headed bastard Clakson buy one of those for his front Garden?

I seem to recall his 'er indoors got in the act & told him to get rid. I remember him getting it bogged in the mud when trying to position it.


Laugh, I thought I was going to have an Apoplectic fit.[biggrin]

Council made him remove it despite his claim it was a 'leaf blower' !

Here's someone else with one in his garden.
YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrLmJA745Xo)

I spotted a Land Rover driving past at one point.


Colin

[ramblingboy42]

they are a bloody ugly thing on the ground, yet look great in the air.

[austastar]

Hi,
Twin engine, and the lower one needs the wings off to remove it.
Not easy to service.
Cheers

[Bigbjorn]

Mmmmmmm, not necessarily, Colin. Remember the Morse Taper drill bits? They were held in purely by friction of the taper & I suppose the upwards pressure from the work piece & they were, in my experience, driven faster than you ever could with a brace & the largest I ever used was for drilling Compressor parts, & would have been about 3/4" diam.

I'm not sure now whether was a square-ish top end to the drill though. Too any years have passed me by for that detail.



Ah, Google tells me there was. Bugger![bigsad]

Morse taper shank drills and reamers are standard engineering tools. Drills are available up to 4" diameter. A 4" MT drill is a big and expensive lump of metal. Usually High Speed Steel or Cobalt High Speed Steel. MT drills are used in lathes, drill presses, milling machines, radial arm drills and many other machine tools. If the shank and socket are in good order and the drill is given a bit of a tap upwards with a soft hammer when mounting there is no slip. I have drills up to 1" in my shop.

[Bigbjorn]

Morse taper shank drills and reamers are standard engineering tools. Drills are available up to 4" diameter. A 4" MT drill is a big and expensive lump of metal. Usually High Speed Steel or Cobalt High Speed Steel. MT drills are used in lathes, drill presses, milling machines, radial arm drills and many other machine tools. If the shank and socket are in good order and the drill is given a bit of a tap upwards with a soft hammer when mounting there is no slip. I have drills up to 1" in my shop.

For those of you who are not engineering tradesmen, here is a link to a short course in machine tapers.

Machine taper - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine_taper)

[Bigbjorn]

Here is the catalogue of Morse taper drills, HSS standard length & shank, from Machine Shop Discount of New Jersey. They are an independent joint venture of the Bacharach family and Michigan Drill. Ignore the prices unless you plan to buy from them. US suppliers are typically half or less what the Australian rip-off brigades try to charge.

FYI a 4" MT drill is 27 1/2" long and heavy.

Sorry, forgot to add the link. Here it is.

https://www.msdiscounttool.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=150