Do you now view your current Land Rover differently?

[NT5224]

Hi Folks!

Now we have emerged from the swirl of carefully orchestrated hype surrounding the launch of the 'L663', does this glimpse into the future change the way you feel about your existing Land Rover?

To be fair to JLR, I guess we should wait for an independent review from somebody who has actually driven the vehicle before drawing firm conclusions.

But one thing is already clear. After all the months of wishful speculation, the new model is very different from our current Land Rovers, and despite all the talk of 'shared DNA', is an essentially different design concept, targeting an entirely different functional purpose and customer base.

Surprisingly, this new functional purpose and customer base would appear to be the same one as for all the other vehicles in the current JLR lineup, and it so it looks very similar to the rest of them...

So now we have glimpsed Mr McGovern's vision for the future of the brand, does this change how we view our coil springs, beam axles and steel chassis welded from railway sleepers? What about those rusting rivets and misaligned body panels?

Alan

[manic]

Aluminium rivets don't rust.

And where do we find these parts from railway sleepers?

All body panels can become mis-aligned, I'd rather have ones that are easier to replace.

In short - my answer is no. [emoji16]

[Tins]

Hi Folks!

Now we have emerged from the swirl of carefully orchestrated hype surrounding the launch of the 'L663', does this glimpse into the future change the way you feel about your existing Land Rover?

To be fair to JLR, I guess we should wait for an independent review from somebody who has actually driven the vehicle before drawing firm conclusions.

But one thing is already clear. After all the months of wishful speculation, the new model is very different from our current Land Rovers, and despite all the talk of 'shared DNA', is an essentially different design concept, targeting an entirely different functional purpose and customer base.

Surprisingly, this new functional purpose and customer base would appear to be the same one as for all the other vehicles in the current JLR lineup, and it so it looks very similar to the rest of them...

So now we have glimpsed Mr McGovern's vision for the future of the brand, does this change how we view our coil springs, beam axles and steel chassis welded from railway sleepers? What about those rusting rivets and misaligned body panels?

Alan

Hmm.... We have the Range Rover, the Range Rover Sport, Range Rover Velar, Range Rover Evoque, Discovery Five and Discovery Sport. Do you really think that the L663 looks like any of those? Seriously? That's like the bloke I worked with once who told me the BA Falcon was identical to the VY Commodore.

Anyway, you asked a question, and I'm with manic.. in short, no. However, the L663 is to me far more interesting than any of the current RR or Disco lineup. I've said before that I consider it to be the spiritual successor to the D4, and viewed through that lens I consider it to be brilliant on first appearances. Can it replace my SIII cab tray? Of course not. Can it replace my D2? Absolutely, if I could afford it. But it might make D4s more affordable.

I think we have to get over the old Deefer in terms of new cars. If you need that then the LC 7x series would seem to be the only choice now. How long Toyota struggles along keeping them relevant is unknown, but I doubt it will bee too much longer. Safety regs will get 'em.

[Blknight.aus]

nope,

its elegantly utilitarian, everything does everything it needs to do and nothing more, no frills, everything that needs to be gotten to can be, everything that cant be doesnt need to be. It never "Just stops" and is brutally tolerant of some of the harshest treatment. It lets you know when you're asking too much and if you listen it tells you how much it can handle but it doesnt quit it keeps trying till you drive it to a stop. Ignore her and she'll punish you, pay the slightest attention and the rewards can be great.

There are no compromises or negotiations with real metal where it counts and no plastic to hide what counts, you know where it is because it has 4 corners that are actual corners, no dips, sashaying sways or curves out of the drivers line of site and the 4 corners can be seen without moving your head, just your eyes to glance at the mirrors.

It doesn't coddle mistakes when driving theres nothing to help you, no safety cushion to keep you safe if you screw it up The vehicle takes no responsibility and makes no compensations for your inadequacies as the driver in your duties of keeping within the natural limits of man and machine. It shows you for who you really are without remorse.

it is Simple and Honest, beautifully and wickedly so.

[VladTepes]

I view mine the same as always. Favourably :)

[Graekynn]

nope,

its elegantly utilitarian, everything does everything it needs to do and nothing more, no frills, everything that needs to be gotten to can be, everything that cant be doesnt need to be. It never "Just stops" and is brutally tolerant of some of the harshest treatment. It lets you know when you're asking too much and if you listen it tells you how much it can handle but it doesnt quit it keeps trying till you drive it to a stop. Ignore her and she'll punish you, pay the slightest attention and the rewards can be great.

There are no compromises or negotiations with real metal where it counts and no plastic to hide what counts, you know where it is because it has 4 corners that are actual corners, no dips, sashaying sways or curves out of the drivers line of site and the 4 corners can be seen without moving your head, just your eyes to glance at the mirrors.

It doesn't coddle mistakes when driving theres nothing to help you, no safety cushion to keep you safe if you screw it up The vehicle takes no responsibility and makes no compensations for your inadequacies as the driver in your duties of keeping within the natural limits of man and machine. It shows you for who you really are without remorse.

it is Simple and Honest, beautifully and wickedly so.

Anyone else gettin' a little misty?? haha! Made me think of Serenity and Mal's final thought on flying an old ship with a soul:

Mal: It ain't all buttons and charts, little albatross. You know what the first rule of flying is? Well, I suppose you do, since you already know what I'm about to say.
River: I do. But I like to hear you say it.
Mal: Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take a boat in the air that you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turnin' o' the worlds. Love keeps her in the air when she ought to fall down. Tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

[OneOff]

I think my Puma re-sale value is a bit more now than it was a year ago...

not that that matters, I plan on driving this thing until I can't climb up into it anymore.


Loverly words Blknight.aus, exactly how I feel about it.

[Max Headroom 2.3m]

nope,

its elegantly utilitarian, everything does everything it needs to do and nothing more, no frills, everything that needs to be gotten to can be, everything that cant be doesnt need to be. It never "Just stops" and is brutally tolerant of some of the harshest treatment. It lets you know when you're asking too much and if you listen it tells you how much it can handle but it doesnt quit it keeps trying till you drive it to a stop. Ignore her and she'll punish you, pay the slightest attention and the rewards can be great.

There are no compromises or negotiations with real metal where it counts and no plastic to hide what counts, you know where it is because it has 4 corners that are actual corners, no dips, sashaying sways or curves out of the drivers line of site and the 4 corners can be seen without moving your head, just your eyes to glance at the mirrors.

It doesn't coddle mistakes when driving theres nothing to help you, no safety cushion to keep you safe if you screw it up The vehicle takes no responsibility and makes no compensations for your inadequacies as the driver in your duties of keeping within the natural limits of man and machine. It shows you for who you really are without remorse.

it is Simple and Honest, beautifully and wickedly so.

Waxing lyrical there Dave but beautifully said. I think it needs a name...suggest "Ode to the Defender" (Deefer sounded a bit coarse with those elegant words).

[Johnno1969]

Hi Folks!

Now we have emerged from the swirl of carefully orchestrated hype surrounding the launch of the 'L663', does this glimpse into the future change the way you feel about your existing Land Rover?

Yes. No.

No, because I have always liked it for lots of reasons which still exist and, well, er, I like it.

Yes, because the "thing" that made a Series One....right up to a Puma the sort of object (being?) that causes discussions like this one is not an inherent quality of the new and essentially unrelated vehicle. That thing is/was unique and nobody is making any more thing now. The thing is finished, it's a thing that stopped being a current thing in 2016 and the thing is that whether we like it or not the thing is a thing of the past now and things change, even if the thing never did right until the end and now the thing is gone and those of us who still have a thing for the thing probably love that thing more than ever. I hope I'm making myself clear.

[Barraman]

My D4 is coming up to 5 yrs old in a few months. If I could buy a new D4 I would looking to place an order - but I can't!

I love my D4, and it is the perfect vehicle for what I like/need to do - so I am about to spend a bunch of $$ giving it a "refresh" in the hope of getting a few more trouble free years out of it.

Don't know what I am going to do after that. Reluctantly buy a D5 I guess, unless they put a bigger diesel motor in the new Defender - then It might be a contender.

[goingbush]

Yes. No.

No, because I have always liked it for lots of reasons which still exist and, well, er, I like it.

Yes, because the "thing" that made a Series One....right up to a Puma the sort of object (being?) that causes discussions like this one is not an inherent quality of a new and essentially unrelated vehicle. That thing is/was unique and nobody is making any more thing now. The thing is finished, it's a thing that stopped being a current thing in 2016 and the thing is that whether we like it or not the thing is a thing of the past now and things change, even if the thing never did right until the end and now the thing is gone and those of us who still have a thing for the thing probably love that thing more than ever. I hope I'm making myself clear.

not clear at all, your arse about, Theres the new 'Thing' and the old Defender. there is no new Defender , just a Pretender !

[DiscoMick]

It's a D4 in drag.
I expect the value of my Defender to keep rising, since it hasn't been replaced.

[scarry]

My D4 is coming up to 5 yrs old in a few months. If I could buy a new D4 I would looking to place an order - but I can't!

I love my D4, and it is the perfect vehicle for what I like/need to do - so I am about to spend a bunch of $$ giving it a "refresh" in the hope of getting a few more trouble free years out of it.

Don't know what I am going to do after that. Reluctantly buy a D5 I guess, unless they put a bigger diesel motor in the new Defender - then It might be a contender.

Exactly,in fact i was a fool not to buy one of the very last ones.

I had one of the very last D2a's,and it was a great vehicle.

The D4 suits us perfectly,but there is nothing around to replace it with.

The D5 has been crossed off the list ages ago,and i was hoping the new Defender was the go,but maybe not,i will have to wait and see it,first.

Looking at the specs,its way smaller in the rear than the D4,the 130 may be the go,but its ages away,and more expensive again.And needs a bigger diesel,as you said.

So by the time the D4 has to go,it will probably be something from another brand.

[Johnno1969]

not clear at all, your arse about, Theres the new 'Thing' and the old Defender. there is no new Defender , just a Pretender !

Tongue duly removed from cheek.

[ATH]

My D4 has just come out of warranty and I've signed up for 3 years of the extended type. Not sure actually if I'll keep it that long but don't think any Defender will be the next vehicle.
Having a Puma (the worst vehicle after having had a Td5 and 300 Tdi) put me off Defenders for life with it's really sloppy axles, bad panel alignment and more Ford cheap build.
Although I quite like the look of the L663 but why such a piddling engine yet again? Why not something bigger for different markets like Oz?
Plus of course still no dealers or agents in the vast majority of places we love to travel in.
At this time I'm nearly nearly going the way of the dark side......
AlanH.

[Phideaux]

Whilst I've driven them, but never owned a traditional Defender, one of the beauties of the 'old Defender' was 'you can work on/repair them yourself'.
The new car is not that car. It will be very competent off-road and pleasant on-road - but it will need dealer or specialist servicing/repairs - and those are rare outside of Australian capital cities.
Fix it beside the non-existent road? I don't think so.
The only Land Rover I've owned is a Freelander 2 TD4 - which has it's limitations but they're a lot further up the difficulty scale than you'd expect. D4 climbing angle 49 degrees; FL2 6-speed, 39 degrees, FL2 9-speed, 42 degrees (from memory).
But - a recent experience with routine wear-n-tear; an intercooler hose split - nothing really unusual after 8 years, but it threw the engine into safe-mode/limp-mode - barely safe to drive in light traffic. And the genuine part was ludicrously expensive.
I suspect the electronic nannies on the new vehicle ("Pretender" - I like it!) will translate it into 'unsuitable for truly remote' despite any theoretical competence - on the 'If I can't rescue myself, don't go there' principle.

[101RRS]

one of the beauties of the 'old Defender' was 'you can work on/repair them yourself'.
The new car is not that car. It will be very competent off-road and pleasant on-road - but it will need dealer or specialist servicing/repairs - and those are rare outside of Australian capital cities.

Sorry, I dont agree. I service and maintain my RRS myself with a couple of basic tools like a code reader. The new Defender, while having more up to date systems than my RRS, as a general statement it is no more complex - TR2 instead of TR1 - hopefully a better air compressor etc. Likewise you mentioned the old Defender and for sure a 200tdi or 300tdi may have been able to be fixed by the side of the road but the latest Puma with the exception of the suspension and transfer case was nearly as complex as the rest of my RRS.

I think that once people become familiar with the new Defender and understand the foibles I am sure it will have, I am sure those with a mechanical and electrical bent will be able to look after the new vehicle quite well, just as the new D3 etc did back in 2005.

Garry

[DazzaTD5]

No...
*I still think my Perentie is a great tractor.
*I still think Jaguar Land Rover is a **** company that has been making hit and miss products plagued with poor build quality.
*I think the new Defender is great and if its got good build quality and reliability it will be awesome

[SPROVER]

Sorry, I dont agree. I service and maintain my RRS myself with a couple of basic tools like a code reader. The new Defender, while having more up to date systems than my RRS, as a general statement it is no more complex - TR2 instead of TR1 - hopefully a better air compressor etc. Likewise you mentioned the old Defender and for sure a 200tdi or 300tdi may have been able to be fixed by the side of the road but the latest Puma with the exception of the suspension and transfer case was nearly as complex as the rest of my RRS.

I think that once people become familiar with the new Defender and understand the foibles I am sure it will have, I am sure those with a mechanical and electrical bent will be able to look after the new vehicle quite well, just as the new D3 etc did back in 2005.

GarryThey would want to be good with electrics.. doesn't it have 85 computers on board? [emoji50] imagine the problems if 2 of them happen to play up!

[101RRS]

They would want to be good with electrics.. doesn't it have 85 computers on board? [emoji50] imagine the problems if 2 of them happen to play up!

While a D3/D4/RRS or RR may or may not also have 85 computers onboard - the numbers of total computers on the vehicles will be getting up there. The computers rarely if ever play up - it is the mechanical bits that are linked to them cause the issues.

[karlz]

Ive owned:-

Series 2
Series 2A
Series 3
110
P38 RR
D1
D4
D4 again
traded up to a 2015 Defender



The D4 was probably the best car I have ever owned, butI love to drive the Defender.