Vaccinations

[NavyDiver]

Noted a lot of kids with measles in Australia, Samoa and other places

This was rams home the cost of not really knowing the dangers of not being vaccinated

DR Congo measles: Nearly 5,000 dead in major outbreak










http://For those who think vaccines are not needed https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-50506743

[DiscoMick]

Yeah, nasty diseases are making a comeback because some people would rather listen to anti-vaxer rubbish than science, so they go around contagious and send their contagious kids out to mix, and infect us all. Just selfish and reckless.

[V8Ian]

Vacation should be a condition of re/entry to this country.
A few years ago, a number of Queensland Health employees contracted TB, from a recent immigrant. That was hushed up.

[DiscoMick]

Totally agree. Anti-vaxers should be told to either vaccinate or go into quarantine, since they are a threat to the rest of us. My father in law is totally deaf today because he got TB as a child.

[bsperka]

https://i.redd.it/6hl33cbzl0041.jpg
Not the sharpest tools in the shed. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191122/3a1e1af1716aaa60f1cfee74c714ff99.jpg

[DiscoMick]

From Byron Bay?

[p38arover]

Maybe anti-vaxxers need to see articles like this:

Letters to the Editor: I cared for polio patients in iron lungs, and I'''m sick of anti-vaxxers - Los Angeles Times (https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2019-09-12/anti-vaccine-polio-iron-lung)

155823

Or this: Breath Is Life: The Fascinating History Of The Iron Lung – The Wisdom Daily (http://thewisdomdaily.com/breath-is-life-the-fascinating-history-of-the-iron-lung/)

155824

155825

[cripesamighty]

The current crop of hysterical (in some cases) anti-vaxers stems from Dr Andrew Wakefield, who got paid to 'cook the books' so to speak, to win a court case. His story is below. I wonder how many people have needlessly got sick/died because of this unethical asswipe.

History of Anti-vaccination Movements | History of Vaccines (https://www.historyofvaccines.org/content/articles/history-anti-vaccination-movements)

[Bigbjorn]

Maybe anti-vaxxers need to see articles like this:

Letters to the Editor: I cared for polio patients in iron lungs, and I'''m sick of anti-vaxxers - Los Angeles Times (https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2019-09-12/anti-vaccine-polio-iron-lung)

155823

Or this: Breath Is Life: The Fascinating History Of The Iron Lung – The Wisdom Daily (http://thewisdomdaily.com/breath-is-life-the-fascinating-history-of-the-iron-lung/)

155824

155825

I am a 1941 model. When I was a primary schoolboy there was an epidemic of polio. A rumour of someone being taken to hospital with polio caused near panic amongst our parents. Not to play with kids from that family, etc. Cross the street and walk on the other side of the road past "the polio house". Our parents and grandparents went through the epidemics of mumps, measle, diptheria, whooping cough and would simply not comprehend the attitude of anti-vaxxers today. To them vaccination was both necessary and lifesaving. All primary school students in Qld. were tested for TB exposure and given vaccinations. Compulsory chest x-rays were introduced and mobile x-ray vans were sent around the state until the mid 1970's. Chest x-rays were compulsory for anyone applying for a government job. No argument.

[p38arover]

I certainly remember kids at school who wore callipers on their legs.

[101RRS]

It is clear now that much of the population was shielded from reality when I was a kid in the 50s and 60s. Yes - polio was the horror story and I can remember it being in the papers and on the radio a lot and seeing plenty of kids with the braces on their legs.

I suppose the then media preoccupation with Polio at the time distracted families from other nasties like meningococcal and measles etc.

Like all kids I knew of my age we all caught German Measles, Chicken Pox, Mumps and Measles - every one caught them and we never heard of kids dying from measles which was much more prevalent than it is now. Based on the modern experience, clearly kids back then were dying, remembering we did not have vaccinations then, but families must have been shielded from this information or being distracted by polio.

The anti - vaccination lobby is bordering on being criminal.

Garry

[DiscoMick]

My father in law is deaf because he had polio as a child.

[PhilipA]

Because I have travelled to many countries I have had many vaccinations.

Let me think smallpox when a kid, Cholera , Typhoid recently , Yellow Fever ( if you have visited Yellow Fever areas you will not be let back into Australia without vaccination) , Japanese Encephalitis, Hep A ( not Hep B or C as I am not that way inclined) ,recently Pneumonia, Recently Shingles' OH and Tuberculosis and Pertussis, oh and polio

I am still here and relatively sane.
When I was a kid , polio was rife . I had 2 friends with it and my wife had 2 uncles who had contracted it. One left with a withered arm and the other disabled. One of my current acquaintances suffers a seized stomach area from when he had it as a kid.

The modern diseases affected my daughter as her best friend suffered mengicoccal and almost lost legs but recovered. She now has a baby but still suffered blinding headaches. We had an anxious wait, and my daughter was put on a very heavy round of antibiotics.
I still suffered German measles as an adult.
Oops forgot measles, and tetanus plus regular boosters and whooping cough.

So I am all for vaccinations.
Regards PhilipA

[Arapiles]

The northern suburbs of Melbourne are supposedly an anti-vax hotspot, but that doesn't gel with my experience - there's not a lot of the archetypal anti-vax types around, or not that I've met. I think that the actual issue is that a lot of recent migrants in the area aren't up to date with their vaccinations, that's reflected in the vaccination rates when measured and the journos put two and two together and get five.

I thought that migrants had to show vaccinations records as part of entry, but apparently not.

[DiscoMick]

Then there are the people who say they don't want to poison their kids, but that means they are prepared to have their kids and themselves run the risk of copping much, much worse effects themselves if they get something, plus they wander about irresponsibly infecting others, all because they read some rubbish on Dr Google.

[JDNSW]

..... clearly kids back then were dying, remembering we did not have vaccinations then, but families must have been shielded from this information or being distracted by polio.

....

Garry

I think there were two aspects to this - yes, we were shielded from the reality; my father lost a brother to diphtheria, my mother lost three sisters to TB. Both the primary and secondary schools I went to had children who used leg braces as a result of polio. But I only learned about my parents siblings long after I was an adult - I knew they had died, but not that it was infectious diseases. My parents were terrified of polio and TB in particular, and I found out years later that my sister was not allowed to visit the house of one of her closest school friends because a sibling had TB. We all had all available vaccinations, but most of the current ones did not exist when I was young. (I am also a 1941 model)

The other factor is that the child mortality figures have dropped markedly in the last fifty years, from 24.9 in 1960 to 3.7 in 2018 (deaths per 1000/annum for under fives). This means that a barely noticeable figure, for example from measles, in 1969 can represent a major incrrease in mortality today.

This reduction in child mortality has come in a large part because of the widespread introduction of vaccination for previously widespread diseases, but also because of improvements in treatments, some of which are cheap and easy - the prime example is that of treatment for gastroenteritis by oral rehydration. Until about the 1980s, this could only be treated by intravenous rehydration - and was the largest single cause of child deaths.

Even though vaccine preventable diseases such as measles caused a small fraction of child deaths in the sixties, that same number represents a much larger fraction of the current rate if low vaccination rates allow an epidemic to develop.

Most people should be aware of the fact that until the 1920s, even in countries such as Australia, about half of all children died before starting school. The spread of safe drinking water and other public health measures, helped by improvements in infectious disease control started the decline of this figure (starting about 1900 in major Australian cities), and better understanding of diet and nutrition continued this decline, and particularly since WW2 more vaccines and there more general availability plus antibiotics and other improvements in medicine have meant that in the last few decades child death from infectious disease has become rare. If the vaccination rate drops, we lose this - measles is the canary in the coal mine - while only 0.2% of those infected will die, it is just about the most infectious serious disease known.

[p38arover]

my mother lost three sisters to TB.

I didn't know until recently that streptomycin wasn't used to treat TB (in clinical trials) until 1944. It was only discovered in 1943.

I found that out while checking a comment made in a TV programme about a WW2 mathematician, Richard Feynman, who worked on the atom bomb and whose very young wife had died from TB in 1945.

It wasn't around when R.J. Mitchell (Spitfire designer) was dying of TB in 1937.

Today, we probably almost discount TB as being a deadly disease.

[Bigbjorn]

I didn't know until recently that streptomycin wasn't used to treat TB (in clinical trials) until 1944. It was only discovered in 1943.

I found that out while checking a comment made in a TV programme about a WW2 mathematician, Richard Feynman, who worked on the atom bomb and whose very young wife had died from TB in 1945.

It wasn't around when R.J. Mitchell (Spitfire designer) was dying of TB in 1937.

Today, we probably almost discount TB as being a deadly disease.

My former GP who started medical school about 1950 once told me he didn't know how physicians practiced medicine before antibiotics. He was still practicing in 2014 aged early 80's. I changed GP's because I thought he was losing it.

My mother's eldest sister died of TB early 1950's. Her outback GP had been treating her for asthma for years and never noticed.

[JDNSW]

As a couple of our older posters have pointed out, it is very easy to forget, even for those of us who were there, the changes in safety in our society within even the last few decades - I was actually quite shocked to find out how much child mortality had declined in the last sixty years - while I knew it had dropped, my guess would have been that the amount would have been nearer a drop of 50% than by a factor of over six.

Another similar figure, but closer to the major theme of this forum, is the drop in road deaths over the same period - from 28.6 to 4.6 (per 100,000 per annum) over the same period (1969-2018).

[V8Ian]

I am a 1941 model. When I was a primary schoolboy there was an epidemic of polio. A rumour of someone being taken to hospital with polio caused near panic amongst our parents. Not to play with kids from that family, etc. Cross the street and walk on the other side of the road past "the polio house". Our parents and grandparents went through the epidemics of mumps, measle, diptheria, whooping cough and would simply not comprehend the attitude of anti-vaxxers today. To them vaccination was both necessary and lifesaving. All primary school students in Qld. were tested for TB exposure and given vaccinations. Compulsory chest x-rays were introduced and mobile x-ray vans were sent around the state until the mid 1970's. Chest x-rays were compulsory for anyone applying for a government job. No argument.


I think there were two aspects to this - yes, we were shielded from the reality; my father lost a brother to diphtheria, my mother lost three sisters to TB. Both the primary and secondary schools I went to had children who used leg braces as a result of polio. But I only learned about my parents siblings long after I was an adult - I knew they had died, but not that it was infectious diseases. My parents were terrified of polio and TB in particular, and I found out years later that my sister was not allowed to visit the house of one of her closest school friends because a sibling had TB. We all had all available vaccinations, but most of the current ones did not exist when I was young. (I am also a 1941 model)

The other factor is that the child mortality figures have dropped markedly in the last fifty years, from 24.9 in 1960 to 3.7 in 2018 (deaths per 1000/annum for under fives). This means that a barely noticeable figure, for example from measles, in 1969 can represent a major incrrease in mortality today.

This reduction in child mortality has come in a large part because of the widespread introduction of vaccination for previously widespread diseases, but also because of improvements in treatments, some of which are cheap and easy - the prime example is that of treatment for gastroenteritis by oral rehydration. Until about the 1980s, this could only be treated by intravenous rehydration - and was the largest single cause of child deaths.

Even though vaccine preventable diseases such as measles caused a small fraction of child deaths in the sixties, that same number represents a much larger fraction of the current rate if low vaccination rates allow an epidemic to develop.

Most people should be aware of the fact that until the 1920s, even in countries such as Australia, about half of all children died before starting school. The spread of safe drinking water and other public health measures, helped by improvements in infectious disease control started the decline of this figure (starting about 1900 in major Australian cities), and better understanding of diet and nutrition continued this decline, and particularly since WW2 more vaccines and there more general availability plus antibiotics and other improvements in medicine have meant that in the last few decades child death from infectious disease has become rare. If the vaccination rate drops, we lose this - measles is the canary in the coal mine - while only 0.2% of those infected will die, it is just about the most infectious serious disease known.
Strewth, how times have changed. I wouldn't have considered either of you as model material. [wink11]

[jonesfam]

Maybe Anti-vax types should have to live in isolation?

Why is it not just a law that you MUST be vaccinated?

Jonesfam

[BradC]

Maybe Anti-vax types should have to live in isolation?

Why is it not just a law that you MUST be vaccinated?

Because some people can't be vaccinated, and like any exception that creates a loophole which can be exploited. That then compounds and you have the situation we are in now.

It's going to get worse, not better. Maybe we need to round them all up and pop them on the space ship with the telephone sanitisers.

You can't fix stupid, but you can take off all the warning labels and let natural selection sort it out.

[NavyDiver]

22 kids in Samoa now Dead. Several dozing
Quacks spraying water on kids instead of vaccinations (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11-22/alternative-therapists-spruik-healing-water-measles-crisis-samoa/11728122) need a long stay in Prison in my view and a visit to the morgue [bigwhistle] 5000 dead inDemocratic Republic of Congo "so far this year (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-7714385/Nearly-5-000-died-year-worlds-worst-measles-outbreak.html)"

Calling quacks "Alternative therapists " should be illegal!

"According to the Department of Health, about 1 in 15 people infected with measles gets pneumonia, and 1 in 1,000 develops brain swelling, which can lead to brain damage or death.
It's also possible for a person, many years after a measles infection, to develop a devastating and disabling brain disorder known as subacute sclerosing panencephalitis, which is fatal."

[p38arover]

Will the authorities check everyone coming in from Samoa?

A few years ago on my way off the plane in Singapore, we were scanned by, I assume, a thermal imager looking for anyone with an elevated temperature.

Ditto in China earlier this year.

[V8Ian]

Will the authorities check everyone coming in from Samoa?

A few years ago on my way off the plane in Singapore, we were scanned by, I assume, a thermal imager looking for anyone with an elevated temperature.

Ditto in China earlier this year.
Probably looking for defective goods. [bigwhistle]

[DiscoMick]

I think, except in the tiny number of cases of serious real reactions to vaccination, that vaccination should be compulsory. Schools should not have to run vaccination programme for children already at school. It should be generally illegal to send un vaccinated children to child care or school.

[bsperka]

Watch "Penn and Teller on Vaccinations" on YouTube


Really good visual explanation of the impact on vaccinations versus not vaccinating.

Please note, some swearing is in the video.

[NavyDiver]

Probably looking for defective goods. [bigwhistle]
Or Looking for fanatic Rugby players [thumbsupbig]

[NavyDiver]

Samoa makes measles vaccinations compulsory after outbreak kills 32 (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11-26/samoa-measles-emergency-claims-32-lives-as-death-toll-rises/11738138)Sad news with hundreds of Doctors and nurses from AUSMAT and Doctors and Nurses from Samoa all working flat out trying to stop this mess or save the currently infected from the same fate.

[DiscoMick]

Yeah, very sad. Don't risk it folks.

[350RRC]

Just something I posted in a similar thread some years ago............

'I am somewhat loathe to get into this argument, but feel I should now.

I was born in 1958 and my father was an infectious diseases specialist. He was sent to the CDC in Atlanta in the early 80’s for nine months by the Au gov to learn all about the (then) new AIDS disease and be a lead part of dealing with the prob here.

Later he also advised the NZ gov to vaccinate the whole Maori population for Hep (B?, C?) which was going to cost many millions of dollars and was very contentious …….. they did this and don’t regret it.

When I was little I was immunized for diptheria, smallpox and not much else. Anyone remember diptheria?

I can remember my father coming home from work in about 1964 with a new thing that was liquid and translucent pink and lining up with my brother and sister to take it………… it was the Salk polio vaccine. My Dad just said something like ‘ This so important for you, this is a really big deal’

We took it, probably some of the first in Au.

I never got polio, but knew plenty who had, including family members.

In the hospital that my father worked (Fairfield, Vic) there was a whole ward of polio victims that were on respirators, i.e. totally paralized who’d been there for years. As a little kid I was one first name terms. Some of them are still alive.

In those days they were in a real ‘iron lung’ and looked up at the ceiling or an angled mirror (to see around the room).

THAT WAS THEIR WHOLE LIFE.

Fairfield had big backup generators in case the power failed, and also had backup procedures in place in case they failed as well.

These were bad polio cases, but what about all the ‘milder’ ones that required a leg caliper, two leg calipers, or a whole body caliper?

In many cases a ‘mild’ case of polio could soak up a farming family’s financial and time resources over many decades. (This actually happened in my maternal grandfather’s family case near Lockhart in NSW between the wars)

THIS HAS BEEN PREVENTABLE NOW SINCE THE 60’S.

Sure the are going to be some stuff ups with vaccinations, but even those attending Kingdom Hall in Nimbin tonight should not be promoting an irrational, uninformed say in the ‘cost benefit’ analysis.

As a kid I had hooping cough, chickenpox, shingles; measles and the german variety back to back, dunno about mumps. Lived through it.

Kids these days are immune from these evils (even cervical cancer……….. fantastic AU achievement) through vaccination.

I’d probably be four inches taller now if I hadn’t copped the measles thing back to back at age 6 (not whinging)………… it ain’t the (non existent) hormones in chicken making kids today bigger, they just don’t get these diseases anymore affecting early physical development because they’re vaccinated against them.

The point is that mega misery (physical, psychological and financial) can be prevented with good science and governance, and people can go on in life and reach their full potential if irrational interests are discounted.'

cheers, DL

[DiscoMick]

Just something I posted in a similar thread some years ago............

'I am somewhat loathe to get into this argument, but feel I should now.

I was born in 1958 and my father was an infectious diseases specialist. He was sent to the CDC in Atlanta in the early 80’s for nine months by the Au gov to learn all about the (then) new AIDS disease and be a lead part of dealing with the prob here.

Later he also advised the NZ gov to vaccinate the whole Maori population for Hep (B?, C?) which was going to cost many millions of dollars and was very contentious …….. they did this and don’t regret it.

When I was little I was immunized for diptheria, smallpox and not much else. Anyone remember diptheria?

I can remember my father coming home from work in about 1964 with a new thing that was liquid and translucent pink and lining up with my brother and sister to take it………… it was the Salk polio vaccine. My Dad just said something like ‘ This so important for you, this is a really big deal’

We took it, probably some of the first in Au.

I never got polio, but knew plenty who had, including family members.

In the hospital that my father worked (Fairfield, Vic) there was a whole ward of polio victims that were on respirators, i.e. totally paralized who’d been there for years. As a little kid I was one first name terms. Some of them are still alive.

In those days they were in a real ‘iron lung’ and looked up at the ceiling or an angled mirror (to see around the room).

THAT WAS THEIR WHOLE LIFE.

Fairfield had big backup generators in case the power failed, and also had backup procedures in place in case they failed as well.

These were bad polio cases, but what about all the ‘milder’ ones that required a leg caliper, two leg calipers, or a whole body caliper?

In many cases a ‘mild’ case of polio could soak up a farming family’s financial and time resources over many decades. (This actually happened in my maternal grandfather’s family case near Lockhart in NSW between the wars)

THIS HAS BEEN PREVENTABLE NOW SINCE THE 60’S.

Sure the are going to be some stuff ups with vaccinations, but even those attending Kingdom Hall in Nimbin tonight should not be promoting an irrational, uninformed say in the ‘cost benefit’ analysis.

As a kid I had hooping cough, chickenpox, shingles; measles and the german variety back to back, dunno about mumps. Lived through it.

Kids these days are immune from these evils (even cervical cancer……….. fantastic AU achievement) through vaccination.

I’d probably be four inches taller now if I hadn’t copped the measles thing back to back at age 6 (not whinging)………… it ain’t the (non existent) hormones in chicken making kids today bigger, they just don’t get these diseases anymore affecting early physical development because they’re vaccinated against them.

The point is that mega misery (physical, psychological and financial) can be prevented with good science and governance, and people can go on in life and reach their full potential if irrational interests are discounted.'

cheers, DLWell said. I had whooping cough, chickenpox and measles as a kid. I wouldn't wish them on my worst enemy. Vaccination has been so successful that people have forgotten how bad it used to be before vaccinations. We have become complacent. I hope my grandchildren never suffer because of that complacency.

[3toes]

If London was a country TB would be considered to be at epidemic levels. When mixed into national statics it does not show. Doctor says not to let kids not yet immunised our in places with lots of people due to risk. How many have been in holiday in London without knowing risk or how best to mitigate

[Bigbjorn]

I remember TB being described as a disease of overcrowded housing and poverty. Much of London fits this description.

[DiscoMick]

It's no wonder you see so many Asians wearing face masks. It's not just the flu they're afraid of.
Face masks are a good idea actually. Maybe we will all have to wear them if immunisation rates keep falling to protect us from disease carriers.

[PhilipA]

When I was in the Australian High Commission in KL in the 80s , we had a doctor who worked full time looking at Xrays of Vietnamese refugees applying to come to Australia for TB.

He caught most of them and they were treated but still a few got through and it caused a jump in cases in Australia.

Regards PhilipA

[V8Ian]

Just something I posted in a similar thread some years ago............

'I am somewhat loathe to get into this argument, but feel I should now.

I was born in 1958 and my father was an infectious diseases specialist. He was sent to the CDC in Atlanta in the early 80’s for nine months by the Au gov to learn all about the (then) new AIDS disease and be a lead part of dealing with the prob here.

Later he also advised the NZ gov to vaccinate the whole Maori population for Hep (B?, C?) which was going to cost many millions of dollars and was very contentious …….. they did this and don’t regret it.

When I was little I was immunized for diptheria, smallpox and not much else. Anyone remember diptheria?

I can remember my father coming home from work in about 1964 with a new thing that was liquid and translucent pink and lining up with my brother and sister to take it………… it was the Salk polio vaccine. My Dad just said something like ‘ This so important for you, this is a really big deal’

We took it, probably some of the first in Au.

I never got polio, but knew plenty who had, including family members.

In the hospital that my father worked (Fairfield, Vic) there was a whole ward of polio victims that were on respirators, i.e. totally paralized who’d been there for years. As a little kid I was one first name terms. Some of them are still alive.

In those days they were in a real ‘iron lung’ and looked up at the ceiling or an angled mirror (to see around the room).

THAT WAS THEIR WHOLE LIFE.

Fairfield had big backup generators in case the power failed, and also had backup procedures in place in case they failed as well.

These were bad polio cases, but what about all the ‘milder’ ones that required a leg caliper, two leg calipers, or a whole body caliper?

In many cases a ‘mild’ case of polio could soak up a farming family’s financial and time resources over many decades. (This actually happened in my maternal grandfather’s family case near Lockhart in NSW between the wars)

THIS HAS BEEN PREVENTABLE NOW SINCE THE 60’S.

Sure the are going to be some stuff ups with vaccinations, but even those attending Kingdom Hall in Nimbin tonight should not be promoting an irrational, uninformed say in the ‘cost benefit’ analysis.

As a kid I had hooping cough, chickenpox, shingles; measles and the german variety back to back, dunno about mumps. Lived through it.

Kids these days are immune from these evils (even cervical cancer……….. fantastic AU achievement) through vaccination.

I’d probably be four inches taller now if I hadn’t copped the measles thing back to back at age 6 (not whinging)………… it ain’t the (non existent) hormones in chicken making kids today bigger, they just don’t get these diseases anymore affecting early physical development because they’re vaccinated against them.

The point is that mega misery (physical, psychological and financial) can be prevented with good science and governance, and people can go on in life and reach their full potential if irrational interests are discounted.'

cheers, DL
Perhaps you should check your facts, then edit the misinformation out.

[Bigbjorn]

Well said. I had whooping cough, chickenpox and measles as a kid. I wouldn't wish them on my worst enemy. Vaccination has been so successful that people have forgotten how bad it used to be before vaccinations. We have become complacent. I hope my grandchildren never suffer because of that complacency.

My primary school had several kids in various calipers from polio. One boy in my class had so severe a dose of measles he had brain damage (intellectual handicaps) and impaired vision (coke bottle glasses) when he returned to school after several months absence. One class down had a boy who was severely affected by a bad dose of German measles as a prep student. He was very bright and placed high in exam results. However he had almost unintelligible speech and was very hard of hearing, poor bugger. Quite a number of kids had some affects from chicken pox and measles. I don't know about whooping cough and diptheria. I think they died. In Brisbane there was a major epidemic of chicken pox towards the end of WW2 and of measles around 1950. Polio was always the elephant in the room.

[DiscoMick]

Tories plan vaccination text reminders from GPs to boost uptake

Tories plan vaccination text reminders from GPs to boost uptake | Society | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/nov/27/tories-plan-vaccination-text-reminders-from-gps-to-boost-uptake?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard)

[350RRC]

Perhaps you should check your facts, then edit the misinformation out.

Checked with my sister............

My father went to the CDC in the US for the AIDS thing on behalf of the Vic gov, not Federal.

Apologies for that.

Maybe you'd like to assist with any thing else.

As some additional info..........

If you're near Wagga in NSW heading south you might pass through a place called Urangeline East. Really just a cross roads (Pleasant Hills Rd goes off to the east).

My maternal grandfather was born in Lockhart and raised in a bark hut on the sw side of the intersection. Later on a house was brought there from Rutherglen by dray over the Murray......... remnants still there.

His sister Celina contracted polio somehow. Pretty bad.

The local community built a school across the road from the old house to make it easier for her and also for the family to carry the 'burden' which included a polio specialist in Sydney.

The school is no longer there, but there is a plaque on the east side of the N/S road that details it's existence.

If you go to Lockhart there is a museum that has a full body calliper that had been worn by a sufferer in the day, truly gruesome.

cheers, DL

[V8Ian]

Checked with my sister............

My father went to the CDC in the US for the AIDS thing on behalf of the Vic gov, not Federal.

Apologies for that.

Maybe you'd like to assist with any thing else.

As some additional info..........

If you're near Wagga in NSW heading south you might pass through a place called Urangeline East. Really just a cross roads (Pleasant Hills Rd goes off to the east).

My maternal grandfather was born in Lockhart and raised in a bark hut on the sw side of the intersection. Later on a house was brought there from Rutherglen by dray over the Murray......... remnants still there.

His sister Celina contracted polio somehow. Pretty bad.

The local community built a school across the road from the old house to make it easier for her and also for the family to carry the 'burden' which included a polio specialist in Sydney.

The school is no longer there, but there is a plaque on the east side of the N/S road that details it's existence.

If you go to Lockhart there is a museum that has a full body calliper that had been worn by a sufferer in the day, truly gruesome.

cheers, DL
Your prejudices are sixty-eight years out of date. I think you owe the innocuous religion an apology.

A: There is no Kingdom Hall in Nimbin.
B: Jehovah's Witnesses do not oppose vaccination on theological grounds. This denomination originally denounced vaccination, but revised this doctrine in 1952. An article in a recent issue of the church's newsletter promotes vaccination to avoid infectious diseases.

[350RRC]

Your prejudices are sixty-eight years out of date. I think you owe the innocuous religion an apology.

A: There is no Kingdom Hall in Nimbin.
B: Jehovah's Witnesses do not oppose vaccination on theological grounds. This denomination originally denounced vaccination, but revised this doctrine in 1952. An article in a recent issue of the church's newsletter promotes vaccination to avoid infectious diseases.

OK, sincere apologies for that bit. Its an old quote.

What I wrote and when it was written was a point in time and at the time there was an irrational objection to vaccination from, lets say .......a destination.

I have a couple of really good friends who are Witnesses and can cope with me no probs.

Interesting history you've provided re: vaccination. Happy to be called on that!

cheers. DL

[V8Ian]

Your apology is appreciated by me. My interaction with Jay Dubs is limited to a family I went to school with and the occasional interruption to my Sunday morning bliss but, I have always found them to be polite, respectful and non-hypcrietical, they practice what they preach.
I found it hard to believe that JWs were theologically opposed to vaccination, so I searched and my comments are cut and pasted from the net.
It is important that we don't attribute this type of information, wrongly to any group or individual.
Again, thank-you for the correction.

[350RRC]

Your apology is appreciated by me. My interaction with Jay Dubs is limited to a family I went to school with and the occasional interruption to my Sunday morning bliss but, I have always found them to be polite, respectful and non-hypcrietical, they practice what they preach.
I found it hard to believe that JWs were theologically opposed to vaccination, so I searched and my comments are cut and pasted from the net.
It is important that we don't attribute this type of information, wrongly to any group or individual.
Again, thank-you for the correction.

I actually told a surgeon I didn't want blood when I was having a rib taken out years ago....... that's another story.

cheers mate, DL

[V8Ian]

I actually told a surgeon I didn't want blood when I was having a rib taken out years ago....... that's another story.

cheers mate, DL
You've given creation to a new gender? :eek2:

[350RRC]

Unwittingly I did.

Unfortunately since, a new 'disease' prevailed itself upon the the world........... the issue of toe curling.

This problem has become so serious so that there are now 9 billion people engaged, about to be engaged, were engaged in researching this curious disease.

DL

[Grumbles]

I remember as a kid at school a girl with leg braces due to polio and the fear we all had of contracting this debilitating disease.

At todays point in time I wish I'd known about the vaccination for shingles.....am sitting here in the recovery stage of a shingle attack.

[PhilipA]

At todays point in time I wish I'd known about the vaccination for shingles.....am sitting here in the recovery stage of a shingle attack.






Free at 70 to 75

I am terrified of Shingles as a friend had to have one eye stitched closed for 6 months and has permanent disability . About one week after my 70th birthday I lined up. I had Chicken Pox as a child.
You can get under 70 but it costs $200+
Regards PhilipA
BTW I learned something I didn't know at the doctors and that is Shingles only attacks one half of your body. Hence my friend with one eye stitched up.

[JDNSW]

For what it is worth, I got shingles despite being vaccinated a year before - but it was not near as bad as the first time I had it before the vaccine existed. There is a new vaccine introduced about a year ago that I understand is more effective. I think it is now available in Australia, but I am not sure.

[Grumbles]

They won't administer the vaccine whilst an attack is underway but there is a Shingles specific antibiotic tablet available. The catch with the tablet is that treatment must begin within 3/4 days of an attack commencing.

Yep...I'm over 70 so will be lining up for the free vaccination. If I'd know about it I would gladly have paid the $220 for the vaccine when in my 60s due to having had chicken pox when I was a kid.

[JDNSW]

They won't administer the vaccine whilst an attack is underway but there is a Shingles specific antibiotic tablet available. The catch with the tablet is that treatment must begin within 3/4 days of an attack commencing.
...

My first attack I was given this, but it started on the Friday, and the first doctor's appointment I could get was Tuesday, so it was pretty ineffective. Although perhaps the results might have been even worse without it. I pretty much lost a whole year from that (2001), and have been in almost continuous pain ever since, although either it has improved or I have got a bit used to it.

[JDNSW]

.....

Yep...I'm over 70 so will be lining up for the free vaccination. If I'd know about it I would gladly have paid the $220 for the vaccine when in my 60s due to having had chicken pox when I was a kid.

I'm not sure just when it became available in Australia - it seems to have been developed around 2004-5.

[DiscoMick]

Shingles is awful. Feel for you.

[NavyDiver]

RE Shingles
latest shingles vaccine is more than 90 percent effective (https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/03/180307095243.htm)



I had to Check- we have the good stuff for you[B]Varicella Zoster Virus Recombinant Vaccine: injection [1 vial] & adjuvant substance diluent [0.5 mL vial], 1 pack; Shingrix® (http://www.pbs.gov.au/info/industry/listing/elements/pbac-meetings/psd/2018-11/Varicella-Zoster-Virus-psd-november-2018)


Re measles
Samoa toll is over 53 dead now[bigsad]

Whooping cough QLD is saddly endangering new born babies if mum did not get the vaccine during pregnancy (Vaccine is free for some and about $50 for me types of people)

[NavyDiver]

This is sad

"
Why is Samoa hit so hard?Vaccination rates - meaning the number of young children covered - recently dropped to a low of only 31% (https://reliefweb.int/report/samoa/measles-outbreak-pacific-situation-report-no-3-29-november-2019) in Samoa, compared to 99% in nearby Nauru, Niue, and Cook Islands.
In part, that low rate has been attributed to the deaths of two children.
In July 2018, two infants died in Samoa after receiving vaccinations against measles, mumps and rubella, raising local fears over the vaccine itself.
But the deaths were later established to have been due to the nurses mixing the vaccine with an expired muscle relaxant, instead of water.
The two nurses pleaded guilty to manslaughter and were sentenced to five years in prison (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08-02/samoa-nurses-sentenced-manslaughter-infant-vaccination-deaths/11378494). "

[grey_ghost]

Hi All,

I haven’t posted in here before but I can add some personal experiences.

1 - I don’t have kids, so I am not sure what I would do if I did.

2 - My mother didn’t get me vaccinated in 1971.

3 - I worked in Malaysia in 1994, returning with Whooping cough and Eczema.

4 - At the age of 14 I had a rusty needle in my foot for a 12 months. When it was eventually cut out (obviously I didn’t know that it was in there, apart from the pain) - the doctor was amazed that I had never had a tetanus injection.

Do I believe in vaccinations?

Not sure to be honest... Lol

Cheers,
GG

[JDNSW]

This is sad

"
Why is Samoa hit so hard?

Vaccination rates - meaning the number of young children covered - recently dropped to a low of only 31% (https://reliefweb.int/report/samoa/measles-outbreak-pacific-situation-report-no-3-29-november-2019) in Samoa, compared to 99% in nearby Nauru, Niue, and Cook Islands.
In part, that low rate has been attributed to the deaths of two children.
In July 2018, two infants died in Samoa after receiving vaccinations against measles, mumps and rubella, raising local fears over the vaccine itself.
But the deaths were later established to have been due to the nurses mixing the vaccine with an expired muscle relaxant, instead of water.
The two nurses pleaded guilty to manslaughter and were sentenced to five years in prison (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08-02/samoa-nurses-sentenced-manslaughter-infant-vaccination-deaths/11378494). "

The vaccination rate drop had mostly happened before the two vaccine related deaths - the rate was 90% in 2013, but had dropped to 31% by 2018 when the deaths occurred. The deaths were the result of the vaccine being accidentally mixed with a muscle relaxant, and as you say, two nurses were convicted over it.

It seems that the drop in vaccinations is almost entirely due to the anti-vax movement imported from the USA, with a series of visits by prominent campaigners from the US, New Zealand and Australia.

Another reason for the severity of the outbreak is that it seems that Polynesians are more affected by measles than western Europeans - not more likely to get it, but more likely to die from it.

[NavyDiver]

I refuse to use the term anti----- unscientific, snake oil sales or similar is more accurate. Death wish on them selves is ok. Killing children is not.

[Bigbjorn]

Another reason for the severity of the outbreak is that it seems that Polynesians are more affected by measles than western Europeans - not more likely to get it, but more likely to die from it.

Polynesians also have a genetic propensity for severe crippling gout. Known as Chronic Tophaceous Gout. Not helped by their traditional seafood heavy diet. They eat virtually anything that comes out of the sea. So do the Japanese but they don't seem to suffer crippling gout.

[Markf]

Hi All,

[deletia]
Do I believe in vaccinations?

Not sure to be honest... Lol

Cheers,
GG

As someone who had polio in the ‘50’s I sure as hell believe in vaccinations. I’m a big fan. If a prang only reduces the severity of the disease then it’s worth it IMNSHO.

[p38arover]

Polio is back - in The Philippines. I must admit, I thought it had been eradicated.

WHO | Polio outbreak– The Philippines (https://www.who.int/csr/don/24-september-2019-polio-outbreak-the-philippines/en/)

[JDNSW]

As someone who had polio in the ‘50’s I sure as hell believe in vaccinations. I’m a big fan. If a prang only reduces the severity of the disease then it’s worth it IMNSHO.

I am not sure why "belief" is a factor in supporting vaccination. It is simply a matter of evaluating the data, or, if you don't have the skill or time to read the information, follow the recommendation of the relevant government body such as the health department.

You may have "belief" in a religion, but it hardly applies to an assessment of data. And the data collected on vaccination over the last two hundred years or so since it has become widely used, has left no doubt in the mind of anyone who can follow rational thought that vaccination works, and that herd immunity works.

[DiscoMick]

Yep, beliefs are irrelevant. Focus on the facts. The facts on vaccination are very clear - it works.
If we see a car crash, we don't ask if we 'believe' in the crash. Instead we just figure out the facts of what happened.
Same with vaccination. Find the facts. The science is very clear.

[bsperka]

I refuse to use the term anti----- unscientific, snake oil sales or similar is more accurate. Death wish on them selves is ok. Killing children is not.Pro death perhaps?

[JDNSW]

Pro-plague?

[bob10]

Samoan vaccination rate at 89%. an anti-vaxxer has been charged with " incitement against the government "


Samoa says measles immunisation rate nears target of 90 per cent (https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/world/samoa-says-measles-immunisation-rate-nears-target-of-90-per-cent/ar-BBXSYGI?ocid=spartandhp)

[JDNSW]

Perhaps worth noting that because measles is so infectious, the rate needed to stop it spreading is usually put at 95%. I assume that they consider that getting to that is optimistic, and if it averages 90% it will be 95% in most places!

[bob10]

Australian/Samoan social media " influencer " compares Samoan vaccination program to Nazi Germany. Meanwhile the outbreak is believed to have started in N.Z.


Samoa measles vaccinations compared to 'Nazi Germany' by social media influencer - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11-28/australian-samoan-influencer-measles-crisis-nazi-germany/11737938)

[bob10]

First polio case in Malaysia for 27 years. Immnunisation is not compulsory in Malaysia.


Polio returns to haunt Malaysia after almost 30 years (https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/national/polio-returns-to-haunt-malaysia-after-almost-30-years/ar-BBXXbPg?ocid=spartandhp)

[Eevo]

The facts on vaccination are very clear - it works.

it works... with some risk involved.

some people over exaggerate the risk.
some companies down play the risk.

[Eevo]

Australian/Samoan social media " influencer " compares Samoan vaccination program to Nazi Germany. Meanwhile the outbreak is believed to have started in N.Z.


Samoa measles vaccinations compared to 'Nazi Germany' by social media influencer - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11-28/australian-samoan-influencer-measles-crisis-nazi-germany/11737938)

there is some truth in that.
both govts set out to achieve something and ignored personal liberties to achieve the goal.

[incisor]

it works... with some risk involved.

some people over exaggerate the risk.
some companies down play the risk.

i think the research comprehensively shows the risk involved is infinitesimal compared to the risks of getting the diseases themselves IF you take out the human error factor

eg:

a triple antigen vaccination to a pair of twins in my wife's extended family caused severe complications that necessitated constant assistance for the rest of their lives

the anti vax mobs jumped all over it as a prime example at the time

when an investigation was conducted they concluded that the twins had early stages of influenza, had elevated temperatures and they should never have been injected while they had a temperature that high.

the nurse involved ignored the clearly laid out guidelines because they had a lineup out the door that day...

nothing in life is guaranteed, sadly

[Eevo]

nothing in life is guaranteed, sadly

and hence, cant be called safe. relatively safe perhaps.

[Eevo]

IF you take out the human error factor

also, this is kind of impossible.

[incisor]

also, this is kind of impossible.


and hence, cant be called safe. relatively safe perhaps.

you can mince words a million ways but the reality is what it is

parents should ensure the guidelines are met...

just running around saying vaccinations themselves are dangerous is the easy way out....

[BradC]

parents should ensure the guidelines are met...

I've had a kid in hospital since Easter. There have been lots of little errors we caught, but one potentially life threatening one. Mistakes happen and parents need to be part of the team. If it turns to soup everyone has an element of responsibility.

The overwhelming evidence is vaccination works. Herd immunity is vital for those that are either incapable of being vaccinated or immuno-suppressed. Nothing is perfectly safe and the truth is nobody gets out alive regardless.

Be informed, not afraid.

[DiscoMick]

I think anyone with personal experience of diseases like measles, polio or chicken pox would say the consequences of getting the disease far outweigh any tiny risk from the vaccination.
In my case, I'd much rather be vaccinated against lyssavirus than actually get lyssavirus.

[Eevo]

I think anyone with personal experience of diseases like measles, polio or chicken pox would say the consequences of getting the disease far outweigh any tiny risk from the vaccination.
In my case, I'd much rather be vaccinated against lyssavirus than actually get lyssavirus.

and anyone with personal experience of a bad side effect from a vaccination would say the consequences of the risks are not worth it.
my ex for example. experienced anaphylaxis after a vaccination.
feel free to tell her how safe they are.

[DiscoMick]

Previous posters in this thread have already disagreed.

[Eevo]

Previous posters in this thread have already disagreed.

are you disagreeing with her personal experience of being unable to breathe after receiving a vaccination???