Gullwings - Removal Method for the Rear Sliding Windows of a PUMA Defender ?

[Robmacca]

Guys...

Been reading a bit about people's different ways/methods of removing the Sliding Windows and it got me thinking as to has anyone ever tried using thin Mig Welding wire &/or Fishing line and using the sawing method (back and forth) to try and cut through the sealant that way?

Has this been tried before and if not, what are peoples' thoughts as to whether it would work or not?

[Graekynn]

I tried fishing line, but found it bound up too much and ended up snapping and didn't trust any form of metal wire. In the end I went with the trim remover/putty knife method and it got the job done.

Once you've removed all the locking tabs from behind the window, force a plastic trim remover tool up and under the outside of the frame. Do it over and over until you've gone around both sides and the bottom. After masking up around the panel (I used duct tape for extra paint protection from the knife) work the knife in at one of the corners and begin to prise the frame from the panel while pulling it away from the car. You may be able to pull sections of the foam out from behind the window, but you still have to break the bond of the bead of sealant.

The prising part is the hardest in terms of not forcing it, but using enough force the break the bond. You'll quickly gain a feel for how much pressure can and must be used, and once you feel the bond start to give you will feel a lot better as the prising process just gets easier from there.

Once you've freed up the bottom you may get an urge to use the window frame itself as a lever to break the remaining bond. I would recommend against this as it is a fairly thin aluminium panel and there's a chance you might deform it. Best to lever the window frame in conjunction with working the knife in. Once you have just the top remaining you can lever the frame on its own as its too difficult, atleast for me, to get anything in behind there with the sill in the way. Just be sure to take the weight of the window as the last of the bond is broken so you don't drop it, but in truth they aren't that heavy.

I dreaded this job and put it off for a while, but when I committed myself and felt that first bond break I knew I had it in the bag. If you really don't feel up to it, maybe hire a windscreen bloke to come and assist with removal?

[Baytown]

Why make it hard?
Ive used the wire meat hold and it sucks.
Go to an auto glass place and they’ll have them out in 15 minutes, probably $50.
If not, it’s a bastard of a job.

[scarry]

.
If not, it’s a bastard of a job.

Which it is,don't ask me how i know.

[karlz]

Why make it hard?
Ive used the wire meat hold and it sucks.
Go to an auto glass place and they’ll have them out in 15 minutes, probably $50.
If not, it’s a bastard of a job.

How do they get it out?

No way $50, you obviously havent done it.
Its bloody hard work, I reckon the autoglass place would charge $250 each side. Just my guess.

[rijidij]

I’ve done a few for customers. The best tool I’ve come up with is a 50mm wide putty knife, a nice flexible one, sharpened on one side.
Lots of tape to protect the paint.
The main reason you need something flexible is to do the top edge as the gutter makes it awkward to get at. You really need to cut the double sided tape and sealant all the way around the window because, as already mentioned, it’s unwise to force the frame out with risk of bending the panel.
It is a time consuming, and somewhat frustrating job, but it’s all worth it in the end.
I’ve never heard of anyone regretting fitting Gullwings, they’re so much more useful than the original sliding windows.

[Larry]

How do they get it out?

No way $50, you obviously haven't done it.
Its bloody hard work, I reckon the autoglass place would charge $250 each side. Just my guess.

Yep, I had a mobile glass guy come out & the two of us spent 3 hours removing & fitting both sides (after I had already removed the inside trim).
Cost me $300, but worth every cent as it's a ***** of a job, but as Murray said, the end result is well worth the pain.:thumbsup:

[Baytown]

Ok, you must be right, I haven’t done it Karlz.
And yes, it was no more than $50 at the local auto Glass place. Photo attached to prove I have no idea.
Its not hard work as they have the electric tool to remove the sealant. It was a simple job for them.




How do they get it out?

No way $50, you obviously havent done it.
Its bloody hard work, I reckon the autoglass place would charge $250 each side. Just my guess.
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[karlz]

OK, maybe its semantics, but you "Havent done it", someone else did.
That said, $50 is bull****, even per side.

I originally posted the first in depth account of my install, and like Murray we both agree the "putty knife" approach is the answer.

Not trying to be offensive, but letting ppl know in this thread that its a labour intensive job, and if I could have got it done for $500 labour costs I wouldve paid that.

Murray, how much you charge, ball park?

[rijidij]

Murray, how much you charge, ball park?

I rarely do installations / fittings anymore, I need to concentrate on production, but for a Gullwing install on a Puma I would quote for four hours, so around $360.
That’s for a vehicle with easy access inside, if there’s cargo barriers or other stuff that needs to be removed it can add quite a bit of time to the job. A lot of Defenders are fitted out in the back, so it could easily escalate to a $500 job.

[Baytown]

Geez you’re easily triggered there Karlz.

You really shouldn’t keep telling me what I have and haven’t done, or paid.

I did remove (almost) the right side window install. I spent over a day, and it still wasnt out. I used knifes, hooked blades, reciprocating blades and dedicated wire on a handle I ended up scratching the inner paint, and had to retouch up the paint around the Cil.

I then gave up and drove 9kms, paid the Glass people who took bugger all time as previously mentioned (two working on it) and charged me $60, as it took under an hour.

Im not getting into a slanging match with you, but I was there, you weren’t, no matter how much it works you up.

Heres the link to my Window Removal - Gull Wing install that I didn’t do here on AULRO Jan 2017. Turns out it was 30 mins total that it didn’t take and $60 charged that I wasn’t charged. My mistake.


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/90-110-130-defender-county/245168-rough-parts-gull-wing-maxtrax-carrier-install-post2632195.html?245168=#post2632195


Ken




OK, maybe its semantics, but you "Havent done it", someone else did.
That said, $50 is bull****, even per side.

I originally posted the first in depth account of my install, and like Murray we both agree the "putty knife" approach is the answer.

Not trying to be offensive, but letting ppl know in this thread that its a labour intensive job, and if I could have got it done for $500 labour costs I wouldve paid that.

Murray, how much you charge, ball park?

[DazzaTD5]

I rarely do installations / fittings anymore, I need to concentrate on production, but for a Gullwing install on a Puma I would quote for four hours, so around $360.
That’s for a vehicle with easy access inside, if there’s cargo barriers or other stuff that needs to be removed it can add quite a bit of time to the job. A lot of Defenders are fitted out in the back, so it could easily escalate to a $500 job.

Yep $400 and then some is about what I charge.

A big key note here is: as your Defender TDCi (2007 on puma) gets older that bonding sealant used to glue in the window frame gets harder and harder to remove. The last one I did was a 2009 model and I fitted the gullwings about a year ago. It was bonded beyond belief, that it took longer than I ever billed the customer for.

I have always used plastic trim knives and plastic scrapers.
The next one I'm going to take to my local panel shop and see if they are way more clever than me, it wont surprise me that they have it done in no time at all (lets hope anyway).

[rijidij]

Yep $400 and then some is about what I charge.

A big key note here is: as your Defender TDCi (2007 on puma) gets older that bonding sealant used to glue in the window frame gets harder and harder to remove. The last one I did was a 2009 model and I fitted the gullwings about a year ago. It was bonded beyond belief, that it took longer than I ever billed the customer for.

I have always used plastic trim knives and plastic scrapers.
The next one I'm going to take to my local panel shop and see if they are way more clever than me, it wont surprise me that they have it done in no time at all (lets hope anyway).

Yeah, the older sealant can be a pain, especially if they’ve been a bit too generous with it. A couple that I’ve done had sealant on the inside which had oozed through. In this case you need to cut the sealant from inside the vehicle, otherwise it hangs on to the edge of the panel opening making it difficult to pry the window out, even if you’ve adequately cut the sealant and tape from the outside.

[karlz]

Geez you’re easily triggered there Karlz.

You really shouldn’t keep telling me what I have and haven’t done, or paid.

I did remove (almost) the right side window install. I spent over a day, and it still wasnt out. I used knifes, hooked blades, reciprocating blades and dedicated wire on a handle I ended up scratching the inner paint, and had to retouch up the paint around the Cil.

I then gave up and drove 9kms, paid the Glass people who took bugger all time as previously mentioned (two working on it) and charged me $60, as it took under an hour.

.......

No slanging match, and maybe I am a bit easier triggered because I did this job entirely myself and it wasnt easy.
The rest of the professionals on this site have likewise stated that its a time consuming job, so when you say just drive down to your nearest glass bloke he will charge you $50 is misleading.

Anyway, its a worthwhile upgrade dont you think?

:)

[Robmacca]

Well, I should have updated this post....

I did eventually install the 2 Gullwings into my Puma and yes like everyone mentioned, it was a PITA to remove the sealant from the frame. 1st one took me a fair while and the 2nd one was much easier. I just siliconed the gullwings back in and all is good. Used them on a big desert trip in 2021 and it made things so much easier... but I did find one downside and that's RAIN. If rain gets into the channel there is no where for it to runout/exit so u need to ensure the gullwing is closed during rain for sure...

Once I came back from my trip I ordered another set for my old tdi300 110 and after a 18mth wait I recently installed them. Again very easy on the tdi300 with just drilling out the pop-rivets. I siliconed the gullwings in though as I think it looks much nicer than pop-rivets

[Mhasting2004]

I just did two in my Puma and I found it fairly easy by using soapy water and a bent spatula tool (ie no teeth) in an oscillating tool.

183514

by doing this the hardest part which was along the top went well. Trick is to mask the body and use soapy water as a lubricant. BTW no need to lay Fender on its side..I just not sure how to rotate image.

Some paint damage (minor) is inevitable but it will be under the old frame and thus covered by the gullwing frame. I installed Murrays excellent product so no need for silicone sealant to install.
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