2010 discovery 4 TDv6 reduced performance error

[ross@freshres.com.au]

Getting intermittent Transmission Fault error then Reduced Performance error. Can usually override error by turning engine on/off but a few hours outside Alice Springs enroute to Perth needed to limp back to Alice Springs at 10-30km per hour to Land Rover Dealer. Two errors detected - P2290 Injection Control and P0191 Fuel Rail Pressure. Dealer found 'intake valve sweating' and replaced Intercooler Hose. Managed to get back to Perth but same error continues to occur intermittently over last 3 months since then.

Bought myself an ArtiDiag 100 Topcon diagnostic tool and and found several errors:
* U0402-68 Power Control Module. Invalid data received from transmission control module - intermittent PCM
* P0087-00 Fuel rail/system too low - intermittent PCM

Perth dealer says high and low pressure fuel pumps need replacing (expensive - ouch!!) and clean out fuel tank but cant guarantee a fix. Note: about 200,000kms ago I have twice filled up with unleaded and driven vehicle to stop. Fuel pumps were not replaced after this. Vehicle now traveled 250,000kms).

Added JLM extreme clean to fuel in attempt to flush fuel pumps. Errors persist. Drove in Sports Mode. Errors persist.
I'm not mechanically minded. Any ideas would be appreciated. Ross

[DiscoJeffster]

Absolutely fuel pump failures. These issues cause cascading errors to other bus attached systems.
I wouldn’t suggest the previous unleaded issues are related. They do fail if you do a search here for HPFP failures. Obviously you need to more testing l, but likely is the cause.

[BradC]

Borrow a fuel pressure gauge and drive around with it cable tied to the windscreen wiper. If the pressure tanks when the fault occurs then you might have a LPFP fault or blocked filter or blocked pipework. If it doesn't then it's potentially a HPFP fault.

I have a gauge if you want to borrow one to test with. Shoot me a PM.

The fuel filter is a bit of a "hail mary", but apparently not unheard of.

If it's a high pressure pump you might be able to cycle the ignition while rolling and keep moving. Dunno if you can do that with an Auto though.
My symptom with the HPFP was fine when fanging it, but it had issues when on cruise control or just tootling along the flat.

Mine started with a sticky valve that took a couple of laps of the block to unstick, then it was fine for 5 months and it progressively got worse (once a month, once a fortnight, once a week, 80 times between Perth and Margaret River). At that point I knew I had to do something about it (or loosen a high pressure line and torch the car).

[gavinwibrow]

Getting intermittent Transmission Fault error then Reduced Performance error. Can usually override error by turning engine on/off but a few hours outside Alice Springs enroute to Perth needed to limp back to Alice Springs at 10-30km per hour to Land Rover Dealer. Two errors detected - P2290 Injection Control and P0191 Fuel Rail Pressure. Dealer found 'intake valve sweating' and replaced Intercooler Hose. Managed to get back to Perth but same error continues to occur intermittently over last 3 months since then.

Bought myself an ArtiDiag 100 Topcon diagnostic tool and and found several errors:
* U0402-68 Power Control Module. Invalid data received from transmission control module - intermittent PCM
* P0087-00 Fuel rail/system too low - intermittent PCM

Perth dealer says high and low pressure fuel pumps need replacing (expensive - ouch!!) and clean out fuel tank but cant guarantee a fix. Note: about 200,000kms ago I have twice filled up with unleaded and driven vehicle to stop. Fuel pumps were not replaced after this. Vehicle now traveled 250,000kms).

Added JLM extreme clean to fuel in attempt to flush fuel pumps. Errors persist. Drove in Sports Mode. Errors persist.
I'm not mechanically minded. Any ideas would be appreciated. Ross


Assuming a GAP Tool will work on a 3L TDV6 as well as my D4 2.7, you are welcome to borrow mine for a test if you are anywhere near or can get to our Port.

Alternatively, I also have a RovaCom IQ that I haven't got around to setting up yet that you are welcome to try, if that will also work.

I'm sure the local experts/gurus will now chime in for some advice!

[Ferret]

Getting intermittent Transmission Fault error then Reduced Performance error...

Mate of mine with a 2.7l had HPFP problems which would manifest itself as transmission fault errors. Not sure what $s Landrover want for a HPFP but he ended up buying the same unit from United Fuel Injection in Perth. Cost of supply from them was ~$1300.

Believe he also replaced the fuel pressure switch in the rail at the same time.

Oh, and now that I think about it, he did replaced the LPFP first (because that was the cheaper option) but that did not fix the problem.

[BradC]

Note: about 200,000kms ago I have twice filled up with unleaded and driven vehicle to stop. Fuel pumps were not replaced after this. Vehicle now traveled 250,000kms).

I missed this in the post. When I did mine I had a chat to the guys at United Fuel Injection (where I bought my pump) and asked if they'd seen this fault in any of the Ford Territories? The response was (and I quote) "A Territory never lasts that long. They are a Soccer Mum car and they get ****ed by being filled with Unleaded long before they have a chance to fail naturally".

So, I asked "Ok, so I've heard this in the past. What does Unleaded *really* do to a diesel fuel system". The response I got was Diesel has lubricity and Petrol doesn't. These systems have super close tolerances and without the lubrication of the Diesel they wear in unholy ways that causes long term damage to the pumps and injectors.

This is hearsay, but I've heard it from guys that sell and work on pumps, and an independent mechanic. The HPFP has a vane feed pump with brass vanes, and apparently the loss of lubrication can cause wear on the vanes. The wear particles wind up in the Volume and Pressure control valves causing the intermittent issues with sticky valves and the faults you describe (and I experienced). I have 3 pumps at home waiting to be torn down for inspection once I get my life back (Feb/March 2020).

[woko]

Just went through this with my parents 2.7 D4. Same faults as you and had the exact symptoms has Bradc. Only happen when cruising. Very random on how often it would do it aswell. Tested with pressure gauge and supply pressure would go into vacuum under hard acceleration. Changed fuel filter and low pressure pump 1st. No change. Changed high pressure pump hasn't faulted since.

[chw]

Getting intermittent Transmission Fault error then Reduced Performance error. Can usually override error by turning engine on/off but a few hours outside Alice Springs enroute to Perth needed to limp back to Alice Springs at 10-30km per hour to Land Rover Dealer. Two errors detected - P2290 Injection Control and P0191 Fuel Rail Pressure. Dealer found 'intake valve sweating' and replaced Intercooler Hose. Managed to get back to Perth but same error continues to occur intermittently over last 3 months since then.

Bought myself an ArtiDiag 100 Topcon diagnostic tool and and found several errors:
* U0402-68 Power Control Module. Invalid data received from transmission control module - intermittent PCM
* P0087-00 Fuel rail/system too low - intermittent PCM

Perth dealer says high and low pressure fuel pumps need replacing (expensive - ouch!!) and clean out fuel tank but cant guarantee a fix. Note: about 200,000kms ago I have twice filled up with unleaded and driven vehicle to stop. Fuel pumps were not replaced after this. Vehicle now traveled 250,000kms).

Added JLM extreme clean to fuel in attempt to flush fuel pumps. Errors persist. Drove in Sports Mode. Errors persist.
I'm not mechanically minded. Any ideas would be appreciated. Ross

Hi Ross,

the following was a post I made in November 2017, with scary similarities to your situation.

"We had a similar problem when travelling from Perth to Alice Springs via the Great Central Road in August this year. Travelling up to Empress Spring, two warnings flashed up on the dash - Gearbox Fault followed immediately by Reduced Engine performance.

U2023 - Gearbox - control module network signal calibration data
P0087 - Engine Management - Fuel rail/system pressure - too low

Like yours this was an intermittent fault and we couldn't replicate the conditions that 'made it occur' and like yours, it was reset by turning the engine on and off, however the last straw was when the issue reoccurred 10 times in the 200km between Erldunda and Alice Springs - too much to ignore.

A call to PCB Landrover Independent Specialists in Adelaide pointed the finger at fuel issues - (blocked fuel filter confirmed and replaced by Sutton Motors in Alice Springs), Low Pressure Fuel Pump (flow tested OK by Sutton Motors), dirty fuel drained from tank by Sutton Motors leaving the HPFP as a possibility but unable to be replaced because of Sutton's work schedules in the week following. In going as far as they did I'd have to say Sutton Motors were very helpful in the process. However like yours, addressing the lower cost issues appeared to solve the issue in all the road testing conducted by Sutton Motors and ourselves, only to have them reappear approx 250km later as we headed south. The D4 and Camper Trailer were trucked back to Adelaide and the two of us flown home courtesy of a RAA Platinum membership - brilliant service by RAA.

Further assessment by PCB at home (flow rates for the LPFP still OK, new fuel filter) saw the HPFP and associated drive belts replaced in early Oct ($2300 HPFP and drive belt, plus 6.5 hours labour). We've since driven approx 5000km, including a trip to the east coast and back to Adelaide via the Vic High Country and Otway Ranges, and the faults have not reoccurred. Confidence is returning.

Notwithstanding the Gearbox Fault warning, we never had any issues with the gearbox. It seems this warning was possibly a transferred fault triggered as a result of the ECU registering the low fuel rail pressure.

Fuel Injectors seem to be unaffected.

Hope this helps"


That was posted in November 2017, now having travelled a 40,000km since the repair we've had no further issues.
Sorry looks like you might be up for a HPFP replacement.

Craig

[DazzaTD5]

Just some points:
*The dealer said something along lines of; replace hi pressure fuel pump, low pressure fuel pump, clean lines bluh bluh, no guarantee it will fix <== this equates to they don't actually know/nor can they work it out, so are just going to shoot a parts cannon at it and see if it comes good or the owners wallet runs dry. How often I see this is just unbelievable.
*Often modern computer driven diesels survive the petrol drinking to a point. Running until it stops though cant be a good thing as petrol is a solvent and will strip the lubricating properties out of the residue diesel in system. The diesel is needed to lube the HPFP (high pressure fuel pump).
*Yes the Ford Territory suffers HPFP failures as well, the owners though are a different bread all together, ya really need to hold their hand. Unlike Land Rover owners that are expecting a failure at some point [tonguewink]
*Yes round $2500 for a new HPFP supplied/installed. (assuming thats the fault).
*As with any engine fault, ignore the transmission faults until the engine is sorted, generally the trans fault will go away once the engine is running correct again.

[ross@freshres.com.au]

Thanks for your help people. A correction to my initial post .... added unleaded at ~20,000 to 30,000 kms not the 200,000 kms as I original posted. Car now on 245,000 kms. Problem started at about 240,000kms returning from Arnhem Land, initially erratic but now every 1-2kms. Also problem occurs around Perth at low speed and at high speed or cruise control. Initially got some relief of several thousand km when I started or drove in Sports Mode, but now nothing helps.

All the tips I am getting have a common thread, fuel pressure. Transmission error 'Reduced Performance' has been diagnosed multiple times as P2290 'Injector control pressure too low'. My diagnostic tool recommended the following causes: Fuel pressure control valve maximum limit reached; fuel injector control pressure too low; fuel line leak; fuel filter/system restriction; fuel pressure control valve circuit fault; fuel pressure control valve failure; fuel pump module circuit short circuit to ground.

So I bit the bullet and replaced the injectors at fuel injector specialist in Fremantle. Owner bench tested existing injectors and found an error and gave me about 90% chance new injectors would solve problem. Drove 30kms and error message returned. At same time battery needed to be replaced and RAC breakdown guy suggested that the multitude of error messages/faults (including the P2290) may be caused by faulty alternator (replaced in Alice Springs a few months ago) which had affected the battery. He cleared all the faults and car drove perfectly for about 20kms then Reduced Performance re-appeared.

So in summary I have been advised to change HPFP, change rail pressure sensor, drain tank in case of dirty fuel from Arnhem Land trip, and check Can Bus connection in case the computer messages are being compromised. Most people recommend changing HPFP. I note a recommendation to purchase HPFP from United Fuel Injection in Perth.

Any other ideas would be most welcome. Remember i am not mechanical.
Cheers Ross

[BradC]

Most people recommend changing HPFP. I note a recommendation to purchase HPFP from United Fuel Injection in Perth.

If you are not mechanical I'd suggest letting your mechanic source the fuel pump and associate parts. Nothing worse than being asked to fit customer supplied parts and getting into an argument later about warranty.

I bought a new one from United and fitted it myself. By the time I bought the pump, the associated high pressure lines, a new belt & tensioner and the single-use bolts I was up for just north of $1700 from memory. There's a thread here somewhere with the details. The job took me ~9.5 hours, but I'm a Landrover novice.

Honestly, based on the symptoms it's the most likely culprit. Look on the bright side. You have new injectors. As an aside, what did that set you back?

[RANDLOVER]

If you are not mechanical I'd suggest letting your mechanic source the fuel pump and associate parts. Nothing worse than being asked to fit customer supplied parts and getting into an argument later about warranty.

I bought a new one from United and fitted it myself. By the time I bought the pump, the associated high pressure lines, a new belt & tensioner and the single-use bolts I was up for just north of $1700 from memory. There's a thread here somewhere with the details. The job took me ~9.5 hours, but I'm a Landrover novice.

Honestly, based on the symptoms it's the most likely culprit. Look on the bright side. You have new injectors. As an aside, what did that set you back?

When you changed the HPFP can you remember if the shaft seal was Viton (orangery/light brown colour) or black rubber? Mine seems to have a fuel leak on the back of the engine and an injector expert thought the seal might be rubber which is no good for biodiesel. I doubt it is rubber, as I've run bio in it for ten years now.

[BradC]

I'm afraid I don't recall the seal colour. I have the old pump buried in the garage somewhere, but that'd take the assistance of an archeologist to locate right now.

[Tombie]

When you changed the HPFP can you remember if the shaft seal was Viton (orangery/light brown colour) or black rubber? Mine seems to have a fuel leak on the back of the engine and an injector expert thought the seal might be rubber which is no good for biodiesel. I doubt it is rubber, as I've run bio in it for ten years now.

Viton in its natural state is black, so not an indicator…

[Chris D]

Viton in its natural state is black, so not an indicator…

Be careful with Viton seals, O rings etc. The better quality manufacturers colour their Viton seals brown to separate them from cheaper seal manufacturers because Viton has the unpleasant property of emitting Fluorine gas (deadly) when heated via an open flame. Be warned gentlemen.

[Tombie]

Be careful with Viton seals, O rings etc. The better quality manufacturers colour their Viton seals brown to separate them from cheaper seal manufacturers because Viton has the unpleasant property of emitting Fluorine gas (deadly) when heated via an open flame. Be warned gentlemen.

Not true regarding quality manufacturers.

One of the highest approved manufacturers (mil spec, mil contracts, NASA supplier etc) makes theirs in pure FKM and doesn’t add colour.

It’s not gas that is harmful either, it’s Hydrofluoric Acid created by intense heat as it breaks down.

[Chris D]

Not true regarding quality manufacturers.

One of the highest approved manufacturers (mil spec, mil contracts, NASA supplier etc) makes theirs in pure FKM and doesn’t add colour.

It’s not gas that is harmful either, it’s Hydrofluoric Acid created by intense heat as it breaks down.

Thanks for the correction. I should have said Hydrofluoric Acid in its steam phase, I guess it can be called a gas but either way its deadly.
In regards the MILspec seals not being coloured red or dark brown we need to keep in mind that the good old US of A tend to do this to mislead anyone pinching their IP. That was my experience at CR anyway.

As background, the name Viton covers that family of elastomers comprising copolymers of terpolymers of tetrafluoroethylene (TFE), hexafluoropropylene (HFP) and vinylidene fluoride (VDF or VF2), vinylidene fluoride (VDF) and hexafluoropropylene (HFP) as well as perfluoromethylvinylether (PMVE) containing specialty polymers. Viton first came out of DuPont who were the first to market this family of materials, so Viton has become the most commonly associated name with this fluoropolymer family.
There are four families of Viton polymers and the fluorine content of these most popular Viton grades varies between 66 and 70%. The main grades are A (Dipolymers of VF2/HFP), which has a fluorine content of 66%; B (Terpolymers of VF2/HFP/TFE),which commonly used for seals or gaskets and contains 68% fluorine; F (Terpolymers of VF2/HFP/TFE), which is used in oxygenated automotive fuels and has 70% fluorine content; and finally specialty types (such as GLT, GBLT, GFLT& Viton Extreme), which are used in automotive and oil exploration applications. The FKM you mention is a similar material but from a different manufacturer (German I think) and is used in the same applications. The most common application being windscreen wiper blades. An excellent material too.
Cheers

[RANDLOVER]

Viton in its natural state is black, so not an indicator…

After reading the post before this one, i.e. no. 17, I'm not sure there is anything natural about Viton.:eek2: