Mega fire bears down on Sydney and the Hunter

[bob10]

Stay safe all.

NSW bushfire emergency continues as 'mega blaze' bears down on Sydney, Hunter region (https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/nsw-bushfire-emergency-continues-as-mega-blaze-bears-down-on-sydney-hunter-region/ar-BBGaxfX?ocid=spartandhp)

[bob10]

The fire can't be put out

NSW Rural Fire Service says bushfires have combined to create 60km 'mega fire' north of Sydney - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-12-06/properties-destroyed-total-fire-bans-in-place-as-nsw-burns/11772568)

[Saitch]

Yea, looks real bad.

Fires Near Me (https://www.rfs.nsw.gov.au/fire-information/fires-near-me)

[bob10]

Fire crew films the fire roaring around them.


NSW bushfires: Terrifying moment wall of flames engulfs trees caught on camera - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-12-06/nsw-bushfires-moment-firefighters-sprint-from-flames-captured/11773128)

[JDNSW]

Most of the currently burning front is pretty much inaccessible on the ground - but there are houses as soon as it becomes accessible, lots of them. This sort of fire is not unusual in the area, but as elsewhere in Eastern NSW at the moment, the combination of drought, low humidity, and strong winds makes the situation just about as bad as it gets.

[bob10]

Exhaustion point. Worse to come for NSW fires.


'Exhaustion point': Worst to come for NSW bushfires (https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/exhaustion-point-worst-to-come-for-nsw-bushfires/ar-BBXQ8Yy?ocid=spartandhp)

[bob10]

Fires South West of Sydney

'Unbelievable': Sydney's south-west prepares for the worst as fire moves east (https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/unbelievable-sydneys-south-west-prepares-for-the-worst-as-fire-moves-east/ar-BBXPV5W?ocid=spartandhp)

[bob10]

The latest fire service advice

NSW bushfire emergency continues as 'mega blaze' bears down on Sydney, Hunter region (https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/nsw-bushfire-emergency-continues-as-mega-blaze-bears-down-on-sydney-hunter-region/ar-BBGaxfX?ocid=spartandhp)

[bob10]

I've never seen it this bad.

'Heartbreaking': Small towns face the worst as NSW burns (https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/heartbreaking-small-towns-face-the-worst-as-nsw-burns/ar-BBXNkiN?ocid=spartandhp)

[DiscoMick]

We're heading down to Sydney next week. Can't decide if we should go the Pacific or New England highways.

[Eevo]

We're heading down to Sydney next week. Can't decide if we should go the Pacific or New England highways.

will depend on fires on the day.
i know a particular day last week new england highway was closed to firefighters trying to return home to adelaide.

[JDNSW]

On the news last night there was a brief interview with one of the people whose home was saved - in the background were a couple of Series Landrovers. Anyone from here?

[rick130]

Highway is ok at New Italy just south of here, pretty much under control now but a mate is near Bulledelah and it's looking terrible, he has a timber mill on the river and they are ready to go if need be, its running across the ridges nearby and potentially can run into town and across the highway.

[incisor]

On the news last night there was a brief interview with one of the people whose home was saved - in the background were a couple of Series Landrovers. Anyone from here?

yeah i saw that, good news story for them...

[bob10]

Highway is ok at New Italy just south of here, pretty much under control now but a mate is near Bulledelah and it's looking terrible, he has a timber mill on the river and they are ready to go if need be, its running across the ridges nearby and potentially can run into town and across the highway.

Frightening times. I hope your mate and his family & friends stay safe.

[bob10]

KIWI's head home, the Americans arrive. It's times like this you appreciate your friends. We are really all in this together,

Stirring moment Kiwi firefighters perform an emotional haka to farewell Australia after fighting devastating bushfires ravaging the country (https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/stirring-moment-kiwi-firefighters-perform-an-emotional-haka-to-farewell-australia-after-fighting-devastating-bushfires-ravaging-the-country/ar-BBXSs3n?ocid=spartanntp)

[PhilipA]

I live at Avoca Beach so we are getting lots of smoke and some ash.

The fires largely have been in National parks so far but are now approaching Glenworth Valley, which is owned by a friend and has 200 horses there.

Today is much more still as far as wind is concerned and the smoke is thinner.

My take is that no hazard reduction burning has been done for many years in the Wollombi or Dharug National Parks ( to the best of my knowledge), so these fires will clean up the understory.

I wonder if Sydney and the Central Coast could have been spared the density of smoke if hazard reduction burning had been done regularly by National Parks staff.
It is also ironic that the Koalas have suffered greatly through this when cool understory burns would have probably meant their survival.

I am worried whether some halfwit will light a fire on Cullens Road near my place, as the bush there is very dense with steep profiles. My house is probably unable to be defended due to the extensive unable to be cleared leaf litter and steep slope along with my large wooden deck.( built by a PO before the current building restrictions on decks were introduced).
Regards PhilipA

[DiscoMick]

Re hazard reduction burning, I'm currently reading 'The greatest estate on earth' by Bill Gammage who has a huge amount of information about Aboriginal burning practices.
It's not as simple as just saying set fire to it. Aborigines had a range of fire practices, usually burnt selected small patches, and the regularity of their burning varied from annual through 4-5 years to 10 years depending on the type of vegetation. It's very interesting.

He compares paintings and photos of the same places to show how it was under Aboriginal management and how it has changed since they were removed from the land.
For example, they left lines of trees and burned between the lines to cause the green shoots to attract the roos and wallabies. Then the hunters moved through the lines of trees, encircled the roos, drove them into traps where more hunters chose which roos to kill, usually elderly males.

This management meant most burns were cool, not hot and destructive.
White settlers did not understand Aboriginal land managenent practices and either let the vegetation run wild or else cleared it for grazing, which caused a rapid decline in productivity and wasteland.

Gammage has some examples from around Uluru which show how it was under Aboriginal management, how it degraded after they were removed and it became a cattle station and how it is recovering under current indigenous management.
It's a very interesting book and there is a lot to learn.

So hazard burning can be good, but it has to be done using Aboriginal practices or it can just result in neglected vegetation and then really hot and destructive fires, as are happening now.

[rick130]

Re hazard reduction burns, a mate of a mate is a Nat Parks Ranger in Qld.
One of the big fires he's been deployed on recently near Toowoomba was hazard reduction burned only a handful of months ago.
It burnt again.

And FWIW several of the fires around here shouldn't have happened, it's wet and rain forest.
We're talking average annual rainfalls of 1700-1800mm.
Normally they can't be hazard reduction burned anyway.
These aren't normal conditions.

[Saitch]

These fires brought back memories of the NSW 1993-94 fires. Not good, although I just read the latest update and things are hopefully taking a turn for the better.

Major Fire Updates - NSW Rural Fire Service (https://www.rfs.nsw.gov.au/fire-information/major-fire-updates)

[4bee]

Re hazard reduction burns, a mate of a mate is a Nat Parks Ranger in Qld.
One of the big fires he's been deployed on recently near Toowoomba was hazard reduction burned only a handful of months ago.
It burnt again.

And FWIW several of the fires around here shouldn't have happened, it's wet and rain forest.
We're talking average annual rainfalls of 1700-1800mm.
Normally they can't be hazard reduction burned anyway.
These aren't normal conditions.


Rick I read an article on that very subject a few weeks ago before all this got out of hand & I remember thinking to myself "They'll now be ok for Summer now the fires have gone through, Blessing in disguise" Not so it seems as it is just as dangerous having burnt bare earth as it is vegetated. Not sure whether it was in the media or in here. Seems it is a different fire path & is a more "explosive" burst that came through after. A sort of airborne fire, ie. off the ground.

. Me? I thought it would be next to impossible but seems not. Maybe one of our experienced Firefighters could elaborate on this occurrence, I wish I could recall the exact details but they have gone from my brain for the mo.

[bob10]

I live at Avoca Beach so we are getting lots of smoke and some ash.

The fires largely have been in National parks so far but are now approaching Glenworth Valley, which is owned by a friend and has 200 horses there.

Today is much more still as far as wind is concerned and the smoke is thinner.

My take is that no hazard reduction burning has been done for many years in the Wollombi or Dharug National Parks ( to the best of my knowledge), so these fires will clean up the understory.

I wonder if Sydney and the Central Coast could have been spared the density of smoke if hazard reduction burning had been done regularly by National Parks staff.
It is also ironic that the Koalas have suffered greatly through this when cool understory burns would have probably meant their survival.

I am worried whether some halfwit will light a fire on Cullens Road near my place, as the bush there is very dense with steep profiles. My house is probably unable to be defended due to the extensive unable to be cleared leaf litter and steep slope along with my large wooden deck.( built by a PO before the current building restrictions on decks were introduced).
Regards PhilipA

Philip, I feel your concern. I will say a prayer for you tonight.

[bob10]

Living with fire and facing our fears. This does my head in...…."
A real estate agent showed me an elevated timber home that looked out to the south-west across vast hectares of native forest. A death trap if ever there was one.“Yes,” agreed the agent. “I’ll just have to find a buyer who doesn’t mind about that.”


Friday essay: living with fire and facing our fears (https://theconversation.com/friday-essay-living-with-fire-and-facing-our-fears-128093?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=The%20Weekend%20Conversation%20-%201480014055&utm_content=The%20Weekend%20Conversation%20-%201480014055+CID_b69b30faf4b9a050d28581c7069b4129&utm_source=campaign_monitor&utm_term=Essay%20living%20with%20fire%20and%20faci ng%20our%20fears)

[Eevo]

These fires brought back memories of the NSW 1993-94 fires. Not good, although I just read the latest update and things are hopefully taking a turn for the better.

Major Fire Updates - NSW Rural Fire Service (https://www.rfs.nsw.gov.au/fire-information/major-fire-updates)


there appears to be a 25-30 year cycle for big fires.

[Eevo]

i did some calculations. the
Gospers Mountain fire is about the same size as the fire on 1983 ash wednesday in the adelaide hills.


the area burnt in vic was about 5 times bigger.




the difference being is that SA and vic all burnt in 1 day, where the Gospers fire has been going for several weeks.




I'm not saying the fire isnt bad, but we should be expecting worse and understand fires of this size have happened before and will happen again.


for context (i got bit carried away)


gosphers 2019
293,550ha




ash wed 1983
208,000ha SA only




red tuesday 1898 <------ did climate change exist back then?
260,000 ha


Black Thursday 1851 <------ did climate change exist back then?
5,000,000


black sat 2009
450,000 hectares


black friday 1939
2,000,000ha, vic only


1985 Cobar bushfire
516,000ha




1994 Eastern seaboard fires
400,000ha




2001 Black Christmas bushfires
753,314 ha

[Eevo]

according to news sites, Emergency warnings for 17 fires in New South Wales is unprecedented.


given that the emergency warning system has only been around for 10 years, the news is doing what it does best. fear mongering.

[rick130]

there appears to be a 25-30 year cycle for big fires.The '93-'94 fires were ****, most of the Blue Mountains were on fire but I feel the '02 one was more destructive?
Areas like Mulgoa where affected badly and the town of Warragamba was wiped off the map.
The fire just jumped from ridge to ridge in the National Park, across the gorge and Warragamba dam and straight into rural areas
I'd just moved from that area to the bush, a lot of people I knew were affected.
Relying on phone calls for news on friends and animals was hard.
Embers are dropping and spot fires occurring at another friends place at West Hoxton, 15km to the east.
I think that's all housing estate now?

Only a few years before that I'd watched a fire walk down the ridge from Silverdale toward us, the only thing between us and it was a narrow section of river flat and river.
If anyone remembers the old Silverdale Hillclimb, that's the section of ridge I'm talking of.

Memory isn't reliable, but I don't recall it being this widespread and definitely not this early in the season.

[rick130]

I did recall dear old dad saying the 1940 (I think?) fires burnt out half the state.
Unprecedented drought leading into it, etc, etc

All the areas I mentioned above were burnt out, all grazing, farmland, dairies and market gardens on what is now the western edge of Sydney

Interestingly the first 50 years of the 20th century were much drier than the second half for those areas of NSW

[bob10]

After the fire. Quite often when the fire is over those not touched by fire just get on with our lives , but that is when the hard work begins for those who have lost everything.

Nymboida lost 85 homes in bushfires; rebuilding them is still a long way off (https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/nymboida-lost-85-homes-in-bushfires-rebuilding-them-is-still-a-long-way-off/ar-BBXUJWL?ocid=spartandhp)

[Eevo]

The '93-'94 fires were ****, most of the Blue Mountains were on fire but I feel the '02 one was more destructive?
Areas like Mulgoa where affected badly and the town of Warragamba was wiped off the map.

i have that one done as the 2001 Black Christmas bushfires

wiki has a page on it
Black Christmas bushfires - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Christmas_bushfires)

migh even be two pages on it
2001 Warragamba bushfires - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_Warragamba_bushfires)

[Eevo]

I did recall dear old dad saying the 1940 (I think?) fires burnt out half the state.
Unprecedented drought leading into it, etc, etc

All the areas I mentioned above were burnt out, all grazing, farmland, dairies and market gardens on what is now the western edge of Sydney

Interestingly the first 50 years of the 20th century were much drier than the second half for those areas of NSW

1939 fires were bad in 3 states.

156166

[rick130]

i have that one done as the 2001 Black Christmas bushfires

wiki has a page on it
Black Christmas bushfires - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Christmas_bushfires)

migh even be two pages on it
2001 Warragamba bushfires - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_Warragamba_bushfires)

That's it.
The ex and I had only moved three months prior.

[DiscoMick]

There are cool and hot burns.
A cool burn might creep along the ground, slowly burning the ground cover and leaving the canopy untouched.
A hot burn, driven by winds, might bounce across the canopy from tree to tree, maybe not even going on the ground.
So the same area can burn more than once.
Aborigines used regular cool burns to clear the ground cover and cause the green pick which attracted the wallabies. They cool burnt grassy patches while leaving lines of trees to divide between the grassy areas. The tree lines allowed birds, koalas and other wildlife to move around in safety, and also gave cover for the hunters to sneak up on the wallabies, before driving them into the kill zone.
It was rare for Aborigines to start hot burns, because they wanted to manage the vegetation, not incinerate it. They identified with areas of land which housed their totems, so they knew those areas intimately.
When they were expelled from those areas, the pattern of managing using small cool burns stopped. Now we get hot burns in neglected areas.
I really recommend reading 'The Biggest Estate on Earth: how Aborigines made Australia' by Bill Gammage. Fascinating book.

[4bee]

There are cool and hot burns.
A cool burn might creep along the ground, slowly burning the ground cover and leaving the canopy untouched.
A hot burn, driven by winds, might bounce across the canopy from tree to tree, maybe not even going on the ground.
So the same area can burn more than once.
Aborigines used regular cool burns to clear the ground cover and cause the green pick which attracted the wallabies. They cool burnt grassy patches while leaving lines of trees to divide between the grassy areas. The tree lines allowed birds, koalas and other wildlife to move around in safety, and also gave cover for the hunters to sneak up on the wallabies, before driving them into the kill zone.
It was rare for Aborigines to start hot burns, because they wanted to manage the vegetation, not incinerate it. They identified with areas of land which housed their totems, so they knew those areas intimately.
When they were expelled from those areas, the pattern of managing using small cool burns stopped. Now we get hot burns in neglected areas.
I really recommend reading 'The Biggest Estate on Earth: how Aborigines made Australia' by Bill Gammage. Fascinating book.




This one I recall, Mick, had recently seen a full blown fire sweep through, not a "cool burn" & why I thought it was remarkable that another fire could find it's way into the same area. I have since wondered if gas had been generated from the blackened soil & ash. as it appeared like a fireball apparently.

[4bee]

Not NSW but just had two fixed wing water bombers overhead for a grass fire near here.

Thank goodness, Woodside ( CFS) Airstrip is not all that far away as it seems to be only be seconds before they were circling around. Nip it in the bud promptly seems to be the way to go if you can. Mind you, bugger all wind though & a temp here of 27c or it could be a different story.

Good to know they can be here very quickly but this prompt attendance may not happen on a Fire day with a gale blowing.

Just sayin'.[bigsmile1]

[4bee]

I asked my Friend Google about secondary fires over the same ground. It could make some sense now.


The black stuff is called burnt sugar! But seriously, this is what happens when you heat or burn things that contain carbon. It reacts with oxygen and "oxidizes" (burns). The black stuff itself is mainly carbon.

[Eevo]

Good to know they can be here very quickly but this prompt attendance may not happen on a Fire day with a gale blowing.



correct. if its too windy, they cant take off.

[4bee]

Just looking at the excellent CFS Maps they publish as information together with their Fire Advice Reports & can't help but notice the plethora of "Con. & Rec Parks" shown on these maps these days & situated it seems by the dropping of a hat all over the hills.

So, can't help but wonder (with reference to Mick's above post re the Aboriginal Land Management) about non maintained pockets of bush land especially them being named Conservation Parks. Who maintains them & gets shot of fallen branches & floor litter or does 'Conservation' mean that you can't get rid of all that stuff because it is "natural" & it is being "conserved"?. What a load of bollocks if that is the case.[bigsad]

I also wonder how much these "parks" contribute to the ongoing fires (I am assuming this is not just a SA thing but each State would have them of varying sizes).

EG. Double click on the map.CFS Incidents and Warnings (https://apps.geohub.sa.gov.au/CFSMap/index.html?appid=d1a5a193e4b14a11acc1415788305fd6&center=138.728311832498,-34.9517191338435&level=11)

[DiscoMick]

The State Government has a hazard reduction budget. It claims to have done more than the budget. The problem is, the budget is is inadequate to do the job that Aboriginal people once did as part of their culture. Not surprising, really.

[Eevo]

The State Government has a hazard reduction budget. It claims to have done more than the budget. The problem is, the budget is is inadequate to do the job that Aboriginal people once did as part of their culture. Not surprising, really.

100%.
problem is money doesnt grow on trees

[BradC]

100%.
problem is money doesnt grow on trees

Which is good as if it did it'd get burned in the hazard reduction.

[JDNSW]

The State Government has a hazard reduction budget. It claims to have done more than the budget. The problem is, the budget is is inadequate to do the job that Aboriginal people once did as part of their culture. Not surprising, really.

The Aboriginal people effectively did it as a commercial operation - it was done to enhance hunting success, which is the equivalent of commercial activity.

[Eevo]

[thumbsupbig]

Which is good as if it did it'd get burned in the hazard reduction.

[4bee]

Tell me about it. [bigsad]


Problem is the trees keep getting burnt down. Maybe they could find a few quid from the Emergency Services Levy & if they did, the Emergency Services may not need all that cash.

The govt can't have it both ways.

[101RRS]

The Aboriginal people effectively did it as a commercial operation - it was done to enhance hunting success, which is the equivalent of commercial activity.

And caused what is probably the greatest ecological disaster in the history of the continent - prior to the arrival of aboriginals the flora (and some would say fauna) was varied and burning was a factor in changing the flora - by burning off, those plants that were not fire resistant got wiped out leaving those plants that needed fire (a generallisation foir sure but as some survived) so the result was not natural selection but people selection even if they did not mean too.

So now the land has to be burned off.

garry

[Eevo]

And caused what is probably the greatest ecological disaster in the history of the continent - prior to the arrival of aboriginals the flora (and some would say fauna) was varied and burning was a factor in changing the flora - by burning off, those plants that were not fire resistant got wiped out leaving those plants that needed fire (a generallisation foir sure but as some survived) so the result was not natural selection but people selection even if they did not mean too.

So now the land has to be burned off.

garry

have to weigh up of the risk of ecological disaster vs environment disaster.

[4bee]

Don't remind me 101!

Bloke next door took a brush cutter to the undergrowth two summers ago & demolished a lovely stand of old man Hakea that had been in existence for 35 years to my knowledge but obviously longer than that. Tried to explain to him about them needing a low fire to reseed. Did not have a bloody clue!

It wouldn't have been so bad but he took them off at ground level & I haven't seen any claimed (his) regrowth yet & I think they might have had the snake.

I'm buggered if I know why people want to live in this environment if all they seem to care about is bringing their moggies & let them out "all night to have a feed", & not look after their surroundings & then moan when they think the bird life is disappearing.

[JDNSW]

My sister died on Sunday, and since then we have been talking about her life. My brother remembers that when they moved to the bush she decided they would have no cats "so we can have birds". After being here for about a year, there was a rat plague. They tried everything they could think of to control them, without success, until one day a large cat appeared and moved in. Within two weeks there was not a rat to be found. Her comment - "we still have birds, just faster ones".

[4bee]

I'm sorry to hear that John I trust it was a peaceful passing. [bigsad]

[JDNSW]

Thank you, She has been in a nursing home for about two years, and has been gradually going down hill. She has been bedridden for perhaps a month, and when I saw her on Tuesday last week she was only moving to breath, but responded to my holding her hand by returning the grip lightly, and opened her eyes when I spoke.

[bob10]

Sorry to hear about your Sister , John.

[bob10]

Summer barely started and 2.7 million hectares and 724 houses burnt out.


Bushfires have already destroyed 724 homes and burnt out 2.7 million hectares - and summer's only just started (https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/bushfires-have-already-destroyed-724-homes-and-burnt-out-27-million-hectares-and-summers-only-just-started/ar-AAK0akw?ocid=spartandhp)

[DiscoMick]

MyFireWatch - Bushfire map information Australia (https://myfirewatch.landgate.wa.gov.au/)

[bob10]

NSW firefighters resort to crowd funding to upgrade their equipment.

NSW firefighters crowdfunding upgraded face masks amid claims RFS gear insufficient (https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/nsw-firefighters-crowdfunding-upgraded-face-masks-amid-claims-rfs-gear-insufficient/ar-AAK0DyE?ocid=spartandhp)

[Eevo]

MyFireWatch - Bushfire map information Australia (https://myfirewatch.landgate.wa.gov.au/)

just be careful with that one. its based upon satellite data and not confirmed fires.

[Eevo]

NSW firefighters resort to crowd funding to upgrade their equipment.

NSW firefighters crowdfunding upgraded face masks amid claims RFS gear insufficient (https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/nsw-firefighters-crowdfunding-upgraded-face-masks-amid-claims-rfs-gear-insufficient/ar-AAK0DyE?ocid=spartandhp)

im genuinely surprised. i went to nsw 5-6 weeks ago and used RFS trucks to help with the fires and their trucks were very well stocked. the equipment was as good as or better than SA. except for their radio network. urrrgh.

[NavyDiver]

im genuinely surprised. i went to nsw 5-6 weeks ago and used RFS trucks to help with the fires and their trucks were very well stocked. the equipment was as good as or better than SA. except for their radio network. urrrgh.

Put a post in Current affairs on the topic of long term commitments and issues for our very cool volunteers you might like to look at.

Are you a Ubber cool Volunteer Eevo or a very cool processional firefighter mate?

[Eevo]

Are you a Ubber cool Volunteer Eevo or a very cool processional firefighter mate?

are you saying the volunteers are not professionals? haha. i kid.
im a volunteer.

[NavyDiver]

are you saying the volunteers are not professionals? haha. i kid.
im a volunteer.

My bad mate. Unpaid Professional Volunteers

Thank you for your service [thumbsupbig]

[Eevo]

My bad mate. Unpaid Professional Volunteers

Thank you for your service [thumbsupbig]


all good mate. i only point out the difference (or lackof) because fire doesn't discriminate.

[PhilipA]

As at today there are no watch and act fires around Sydney.

They have burnt out large areas of mainly National Parks (Wollomi and Dharug ) to the North.

Our friends who own Glenworth Valley about 2 valleys from the Eastern Front of the fire declined our help 2 days ago as then the fires were being controlled and backburns were being done.
Regards PhilipA

[Saitch]

Good news, indeed!

[4bee]

Good news, indeed! & another indeed, indeed. Let us hope they can start to make some visible headway from now on.

They have done marvelously well. Time to put their feet up for a while. If only eh?

Just need the crap weather conitions to hold off to give the poor buggers a fighting chance.

[DiscoMick]

im genuinely surprised. i went to nsw 5-6 weeks ago and used RFS trucks to help with the fires and their trucks were very well stocked. the equipment was as good as or better than SA. except for their radio network. urrrgh.This story has more details. What do you think about it?

Volunteer firefighters in Australia warned not to crowdfund for equipment

Volunteer firefighters in Australia warned not to crowdfund for equipment | Australia news | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/dec/12/volunteer-firefighters-in-australia-warned-not-to-crowdfund-for-equipment?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard)

[DiscoMick]

Some pics from today on the Pacific Highway near Nabiac, where the fires appear to have burned right across the motorway, including the trees in the median strip.
A crew was felling trees so they wouldn't fall on the road. Saw sheds and equipment destroyed. Several houses were completely surrounded by burnt land, but the houses had survived.
I'm assuming it is much worse away from the highway. Smoke got thicker around Bulahdelah.
Cooler conditions today, but the area is so dry that the leaves on numerous trees have turned brown.
Really need several days of sustained rain. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191212/03f304bf0a790526d9b32d9ba3d02a35.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191212/1f0056b00a2fe3d758a3b7ca4024b471.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191212/d7362ff73b7ea788be4fb1a4fa4a161a.jpg

[bob10]

This story has more details. What do you think about it?

Volunteer firefighters in Australia warned not to crowdfund for equipment

Volunteer firefighters in Australia warned not to crowdfund for equipment | Australia news | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/dec/12/volunteer-firefighters-in-australia-warned-not-to-crowdfund-for-equipment?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard)

They have been gagged to protect their political masters.

[bob10]

Slim Dusty's home saved from the fires. Symbolic, but a positive in a week full of negatives.

NSW bushfires threatened Slim Dusty's childhood home but it was saved by efforts of farmer and RFS - ABC Rural - ABC News (https://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2019-12-12/slim-dusty-house-saved-from-bushfire/11787430?utm_source=sfmc&utm_medium=email&utm_content=&utm_campaign=%5bnews_sfmc_rural_df_!n1%5d%3a8940&user_id=c17365ab07572ed90614d245ada5ad675f6bc00189 fa766123c70d76d1d7cddf&WT.tsrc=email&WT.mc_id=Email%7c%5bnews_sfmc_rural_df_!n1%5d%7c89 40RuralMail_ArticleLink)

[Eevo]

This story has more details. What do you think about it?

Volunteer firefighters in Australia warned not to crowdfund for equipment

Volunteer firefighters in Australia warned not to crowdfund for equipment | Australia news | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/dec/12/volunteer-firefighters-in-australia-warned-not-to-crowdfund-for-equipment?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard)

it's a complex issue.
the brunt of the issue is with brigades buying non RFS approved face masks.
the issue mostly comes down to, are P2 masks acceptable protection? followed by which brand/model?

in CFS, we're all issued P2 masks by a particular manufacturer. I cant remember which one. they are effective, but not the most comfortable. i want to go out and buy my own P2 mask which meets the same standards but is more comfortable. but... i cant wear it on the fireground as its not cfs issued or approved.




crowdfunding has been done for year by brigades. bunnings sausage sizzle, op shops, collection on election day, etc. i doubt the problem is here .

[DiscoMick]

I am a volunteer firefighter. Yes, we 'want to be here', Scott Morrison – but there are limits

I am a volunteer firefighter. Yes, we 'want to be here' Scott Morrison, but there are limits | Geoff Goldrick | Opinion | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/13/i-am-a-volunteer-firefighter-yes-we-want-to-be-here-scott-morrison-but-there-are-limits?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard)

[4bee]

it's a complex issue.
the brunt of the issue is with brigades buying non RFS approved face masks.
the issue mostly comes down to, are P2 masks acceptable protection? followed by which brand/model?

in CFS, we're all issued P2 masks by a particular manufacturer. I cant remember which one. they are effective, but not the most comfortable. i want to go out and buy my own P2 mask which meets the same standards but is more comfortable. but... i cant wear it on the fireground as its not cfs issued or approved.




crowdfunding has been done for year by brigades. bunnings sausage sizzle, op shops, collection on election day, etc. i doubt the problem is here .


Sounds like there is something well dodgy with the Approval/Tendering/Purchasing system then.

It should not be a complex system at all, they should be buying only the best when it comes to health & looking after you blokes.

[Eevo]

Sounds like there is something well dodgy with the Approval/Tendering/Purchasing system then.

It should not be a complex system at all, they should be buying only the best when it comes to health & looking after you blokes.


at what cost? there is always a budget.

[4bee]

And who decides the Budget? The shiny bums is who ,Eevo. They can always find cash for lots of medal Ribbons, fancy lanyards, uniform badges, new swivel seats & new strides when they wear out the seats of their old ones.

In fact some of them look like Russian Generals. It all has to be paid for from somewhere. Spend it on all that stuff there may not be enough left in the kitty to look after the welfare of the blokes who matter.

You know it's true.[biggrin]

[DiscoMick]

at what cost? there is always a budget.Maybe they could also allow a list of other approved items if members prefer to buy them.

[4bee]

What you tryin' to do Mick, cut out the middleman? [happycry] We all have to earn a crust you know.[bigsmile1]

[Eevo]

Maybe they could also allow a list of other approved items if members prefer to buy them.
too much common sense for that to happen haha

[bob10]

Well, some one better work it out. Without the correct standard of face mask, for example, fire fighters are open to any number of cancer forming pollutants.

NSW bushfires: 'apocalyptic' health effects of Sydney's toxic air (https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/nsw-bushfires-apocalyptic-health-effects-of-sydneys-toxic-air/ar-AAK5Vo7?ocid=spartandhp)



Macquarie University Professor Mark Taylor, who focuses on environmental pollution and risks to human health, said bushfire smoke has complex chemistry, which can be carcinogenic even at low concentrations."Exposure to particles has a cumulative effect over a lifetime and even if the impact of short-term exposure is minuscule, multiple exposures to high levels of pollutants will have an effect," he said.

[4bee]

That's Ed Zackerly what I was thinking. [bigsad]

Those responsible are not/choose not to be looking ahead when health problems start & they will be held accountable & the price of a few thousand masks will seem like a drop in the ocean to the legal Claims that will be made. Even if firefighters have signed a Govt. Disclaimer, these days I doubt the Govts will have a leg to stand on & could be hit for Millions. Well the Tax payers could.:rolleyes:

Stand by for cover ups, buck passing & whitewashing.

Eevo, I suggest you keep an accurate diary of events for the just in case scenarios & while you may guffaw at the above comment I probably won't be around to say "I told you so" when the brown stuff hits the whirly thing.

[bob10]

That's Ed Zackerly what I was thinking. [bigsad]

Those responsible are not/choose not looking ahead to when health problems start & they will be held accountable & the price of a few thousand masks will seem like a drop in the ocean to the legal Claims that will be made. Even if firefighters have signed a Govt. Disclaimer, these days I doubt the Govts will have a leg to stand on & could be hit for Millions. Well the Tax payers could.:rolleyes:

Stand by for cover ups, buck passing & whitewashing.

Eevo, I suggest you keep an accurate diary of events for the just in case scenarios.

Spot on. Those who think the Government has your best interest at heart, and would ensure your working conditions are the healthiest they can be, should read this.

https://www.marksandmorrow34th.com/Discussion_Paper_re_RAN_Poison_V21.pdf?fbclid=IwAR 2MsAxCxERB97fuSdgkGE8nffM1pS3s8Aj2LG2TiU-0p18nh5dD-QgC2EE

[4bee]

I see this as the equivalent as "Canon Fodder" & in later years it will be said "How the hell was this allowed to happen? What were they thinking?"

You mark my words, those STAFF up the chain will be seen to be ok because they have made it their business to be.

CFS, RFS, et al are just one large Business/Govt. Department, no different to any other with all it's intrigues, "escape" routes, Blame game, large buckets of Whitewash etc. Remember, #1 Eevo, #1.

Cynical? Moi? Too right, been there done that but didn't get a T shirt.

Still, WTF would I know?[bigsad]

[4bee]

Bloody Hell Bob!

Remember the battle for compensation with the F-111 Fuel tank sealing saga?

What about the recent one with Aerodrome Fire Extinguisher Foam? I bet the chiefs were heard to say "No Worries mate"[bigsad]



RAAF jet fuel: Defence personnel call for inquiry after reporting wide range of serious illnesses - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-06-30/defence-personnel-call-for-jet-fuel-inquiry-range-of-illnesses/6583982)





Toxic Truth: RAAF firefighter's cancer battle after years using poisonous foam | Newcastle Herald


Remember also The Atomic Bomb Testing Veterans.


Rembember also Vietnam & Agent Orange etc etc etc.

I rest my case M'Lud.
(https://www.newcastleherald.com.au/story/3460039/toxic-truth-raaf-firefighters-cancer-battle/)

[bob10]

Should Sydney siders wear a face mask?


Should I wear a face mask to protect myself from bushfire smoke? (https://thenewdaily.com.au/life/wellbeing/2019/12/04/bushfire-smoke-face-mask/?utm_source=Adestra&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Health%20December%20-%2020191214)

[trout1105]

I find it amusing that people that choose to live in cities with its already filthy polluted air are now concerned about a little bit of woodsmoke[bigwhistle]
I wonder if these same people feel the need of a facemask at a BBQ or when sitting around a campfire[biggrin]

A little bit of cement in their morning café latte is all that is needed so that they can harden the **** up[biggrin][thumbsupbig]

[rick130]

What amuses me is that the rest of the state and SE Qld have been breathing heavy fire smoke for months, but it's only an issue when Sydney is affected......

I had a doozy of a lung infection during the worst of the fires and was out in it working every day but no one gives a flying fig about anyone in rural/regional areas.
Sometimes we were lucky to be able to see several hundred metres at the most, we'd forgotten what the sun looked like.

There a reason why regional NSW has always maintained NSW stands for Sydney, Newcastle and Wollongong....[emoji849]

[4bee]

Why the RFS won'&#39;'t pay for '&#39;'game-changing'&#39;' respirator masks (https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/why-the-rfs-won-t-pay-for-game-changing-respirator-masks-20191212-p53j9w.html)

[Eevo]

Why the RFS won'''t pay for '''game-changing''' respirator masks (https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/why-the-rfs-won-t-pay-for-game-changing-respirator-masks-20191212-p53j9w.html)

**** no i would not use a p3 mask. you cannot work with an elevated respiratory rate while wearing them. they are not suitable for firefighting imho.

[DiscoMick]

I'm not sure how relevant it is, not being a firefighter, but I'm using a Resmed CPAP Mini machine with battery and mask to sleep better and I can't see any obvious reason why a firefighter couldn't wear it.

ResMed AirMini | Portable ResMed Travel CPAP Machines For Sale – Perth CPAP (https://www.perthcpap.com.au/products/resmed-air-mini-1)

[4bee]

I find it amusing that people that choose to live in cities with its already filthy polluted air are now concerned about a little bit of woodsmoke[bigwhistle]
I wonder if these same people feel the need of a facemask at a BBQ or when sitting around a campfire[biggrin]

A little bit of cement in their morning café latte is all that is needed so that they can harden the **** up[biggrin][thumbsupbig]


But it isn't "just a little bit of wood smoke" is it? The topography of Sydney makes it very vulnerable to it all concentrating at a low level & it isn't just a bit, it has been every day for weeks & they haven't had the breezes to carry it away to sea. A bit different to Geraldton where you said you have constant wind to carry your smoke inland.

With a Barbecue & Campfire you can freely move out of the smoke if you object to it. Try living with Asthma for a few days under smoke enforced conditions without any escape. It will be a totally different story I'll bet.


I don't even live there, but I have sympathy & concern for those that do, but we recently did have a dill ( new Vineyard development) burning off heaps of wet Willow for days just after rain, FFS. Where are people's brains? But after nearly killing every Asthmatic in the valley they did have the courtesy to apologise.

Then bugger me dead, the Nat Parks mob decided to have a big maintenance burn off without any notice being given to the public. Yep, smoke into the Valley again. They also apologised, how nice. ******.


BTW. Australia's bushfire crisis: how long are the fires and smoke expected to last? | Australia news | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/dec/13/australias-bushfire-crisis-how-long-are-the-fires-and-smoke-expected-to-last)

[DiscoMick]

In the wake of the bushfires: stricken residents face grim job of rebuilding

In the wake of the bushfires: stricken residents face grim job of rebuilding | Australia news | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/dec/15/in-the-wake-of-the-bushfires-stricken-residents-face-grim-job-of-rebuilding?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard)

[Eevo]

I'm not sure how relevant it is, not being a firefighter, but I'm using a Resmed CPAP Mini machine with battery and mask to sleep better and I can't see any obvious reason why a firefighter couldn't wear it.

ResMed AirMini | Portable ResMed Travel CPAP Machines For Sale – Perth CPAP (https://www.perthcpap.com.au/products/resmed-air-mini-1)


on the fireground?

lack of proper filtration and low of airflow.
they are very different products

[DiscoMick]

Mine has a filter and is portable, but it's expensive.

[Eevo]

Mine has a filter and is portable, but it's expensive.

its not a p2 filter and it cannot produce enough airflow when the firefighter is working. ive got one mick.
also for the price there are much better options out there that are purpose built.

[4bee]

Expensive! I'll say. I couldn't see the SA Govt. putting their hands in their kick for a couple of thousand of those.


Good olde E.S.L could fund it I suppose. Yeah roight.[smilebigeye]

[DiscoMick]

its not a p2 filter and it cannot produce enough airflow when the firefighter is working. ive got one mick.
also for the price there are much better options out there that are purpose built.Yes, it's medical equipment, so not suitable for use in heat. I imagine firefighters would need a powered, filtered respirator.

I read the link below which was interesting.
I think governments may need to fund a better quality of respirator. You can't ask people to risk harm and then not provide adequate PPE - that could leave governments vulnerable to being sued under work safety laws.
It's clear the fire danger is worsening and governments should recognise that.

Respiratory protective equipment (RPE) - worksafe.qld.gov.au (https://www.worksafe.qld.gov.au/injury-prevention-safety/managing-risks/personal-protective-equipment-ppe/respiratory-protective-equipment-rpe)

[Eevo]

I imagine firefighters would need a powered, filtered respirator.

nothing powered thanks.
just another thing that needs to be looked after and can go wrong.

[DiscoMick]

How about a 12 hour lithium battery with auto on -off so the wearer could cause it to turn on automatically just by closing the mouth to get a seal and off by opening the mouth, which would make the battery last longer? That's how mine works.

[Eevo]

How about a 12 hour lithium battery with auto on -off so the wearer could cause it to turn on automatically just by closing the mouth to get a seal and off by opening the mouth, which would make the battery last longer? That's how mine works.

you only do 12h shifts? hahaha


back to masks, nothing powered thanks.

[DiscoMick]

The auto on-off means the unit would be off most of the time and the wearer would only cause it to come on when it was needed, which might only be a small part of the shift, so the battery should easily last 12 hours.
Anyway, whatever works for the firefighters is what's important. If they want P3 masks, they should be available, I think.
I notice the rescuers on White Island appeared to be wearing masks. I bet they were the best available.

[DiscoMick]

Looking very nasty out there tonight, particularly in the Hawkesbury area. Really feel for those affected.

Homes believed lost in NSW 'mega blaze' as firefighters tackle 70-metre flames
Homes believed lost in NSW 'mega blaze' as firefighters tackle 70-metre flames in windy conditions - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-12-15/nsw-bushfires-video-terrifying-homes-lost-around-mt-tomah/11800652)

[Eevo]

I notice the rescuers on White Island appeared to be wearing masks. I bet they were the best available.


i read somewhere they were the bomb squad.

u can afford the best when u only have to buy 10 of them
SA has about 10,000 volunteer firefighters.
not sure about nsw. 50,000?, 100,000?

[Eevo]

also, having a lithium battery at face level with the heat level that can be experienced would be a no no.

[DiscoMick]

Weren't they SAS? Anyway, your point is correct.

Batteries would be worn in waist pouches.

[4bee]

i read somewhere they were the bomb squad.

u can afford the best when u only have to buy 10 of them
SA has about 10,000 volunteer firefighters.
not sure about nsw. 50,000?, 100,000?


Yeah, one second they were supposed to be the Army & the next, the Cop's Bomb squad.


I'd hate the wrong crowd to get the 2000 cartons of Beer I sent over for whoever it was.[bigsad]

[DiscoMick]

Woke up this morning in northern Sydney to an eerie glow and lack of sunshine. Thin clouds have been turned brown by the smoke from the fires burning north west of Sydney. Winds are blowing strongly and gusting stronger. Forecast is for hotter days and no rain. Forests are as dry as a fireplace. So it's bad conditions for firefighting.

Early reports say properties have been lost in the Blue Mountains overnight, but it's too soon to know how many.

Fire chiefs say it's going to be a bad week. The fires, which have already burnt 380,000 hectares - an area larger than Sydney - can't be extinguished except by rain, say the fire chiefs. All they can do to try to protect people house by house.

The volunteers are already exhausted by the extended fire season and will need interstate help. Better start packing Evo.

My opinion is this isn't a natural disaster - it's more than natural - it's an unnatural disaster. A national emergency.

'Public health emergency': Doctors urge PM and NSW Premier to act on smoke
'Public health emergency': Doctors urge PM and NSW Premier to act on smoke | SBS News (https://www.sbs.com.au/news/public-health-emergency-doctors-urge-pm-and-nsw-premier-to-act-on-smoke?cid=newsapp:socialshare:copylink)

[4bee]

Gottit! What about a Heat Generated Battery Charger out of the crown of each helmet & with a few holes around the brim would also introduce "fresh" air over the wearer's bonce.


There you go Eevo, take this brainstorm to the Govt & you can have all the Royalties, courtesy of me.:twobeers:[biggrin]

We really do need a Tongue in Cheek smiley.[smilebigeye]

I don't know what they expect Politicians to do about the Smoke, I mean, most never seem to very good at handling their own Portfolios let alone a severe national Emergency. Maybe they would issue every taxpayer with an Ash Tray engraved with "A gift from your caring Governments"? A crass Polly would have them made from a piece of blackened Eucalyptus log.

I know the situation ain't funny but let's not lose our collective sense of humour or we'll all be doomed, doomed I tell you.

[DiscoMick]

Solar powered helmet? [emoji41]

[4bee]

GEEZUZ Mick! :rolleyes: Apparently some people haven't seen the sun for weeks, Rick130 included, so I doubt that could be a goer but according to some here that is not a problem & a tad woosey.

[Eevo]

Better start packing Evo.
ive put my name on the list for the 20th til the 8th.

problem is, we need to keep some firefighters here too.

[Eevo]

Solar powered helmet? [emoji41]

wind turbine on each helmet.

[Saitch]

Gottit! What about a Heat Generated Battery Charger out of the crown of each helmet & with a few holes around the brim would also introduce "fresh" air over the wearer's bonce.


There you go Eevo, take this brainstorm to the Govt & you can have all the Royalties, courtesy of me.:twobeers:[biggrin]

We really do need a Tongue in Cheek smiley.[smilebigeye]

I don't know what they expect Politicians to do about the Smoke, I mean, most never seem to very good at handling their own Portfolios let alone a severe national Emergency. Maybe they would issue every taxpayer with an Ash Tray engraved with "A gift from your caring Governments"? A crass Polly would have them made from a piece of blackened Eucalyptus log.

I know the situation ain't funny but let's not lose our collective sense of humour or we'll all be doomed, doomed I tell you.

Use it with their "Mirrors"!

[DiscoMick]

ive put my name on the list for the 20th til the 8th.

problem is, we need to keep some firefighters here too.Good for you. Respect.

[Eevo]

the cost of when a backburn goes wrong



The terrifying bushfire emergency that hit the Blue Mountains late last night happened after the RFS lost control of a "absolutely crucial" backburn, the volunteer fire service admitted.At least 20 buildings are believed to have been lost last night as the megafire jumped containment lines.
Firefighters had been conducting hazard reduction burns along the southern edge of the Gospers Mountain fire – which has burnt close to 400,000 hectares of bush – when the flames spread.
“There was backburning in the area and unfortunately due to the conditions they’re burning in, it’s taken one ember to cross over the wrong side and that’s where it took a run and it was escalated to emergency warning and then we have had reports of homes lost in the area,” an RFS spokeswoman told AAP.
Reports have also surfaced that some firefighters out trying to protect their local communities instead lost their own homes to the megafire.

[4bee]

Yeah Huge respect Eevo. Fires don't take a holiday even when the rest of the country does, mores the pity.

Re.
it’s taken one ember to cross over the wrong side and that’s where it took a run Dopey me initially read that as "One Member". SEZ me, "WTF!"[bigsad]

[4bee]

Use it with their "Mirrors"! SH, I doubt some even know what a Mirror is & would they really want a Mirror? I doubt it, as then they would be able to see themselves as others do & the egos wouldn't be able to stand it.

Might be mass suicides taking place. If yer lucky. [bigsad]

[Eevo]

Fires don't take a holiday even when the rest of the country does,


im quite happy not to see the family. haha

[DiscoMick]

Australia faces 'massive' rethink to prepare for long-term bushfires and air pollution

Australia faces 'massive' rethink to prepare for long-term bushfires and air pollution | Australia news | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/dec/16/australia-faces-massive-rethink-to-prepare-for-long-term-bushfires-and-air-pollution?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard)

[4bee]

It will be a very courageous person who decides if all these New Years Fireworks displays happen in Oz.

For the first time they may see some sense.

"Oh but we need to do it to improve the morale of the populace after all these fires"


Sure you do by lighting more fires & polluting the air even more. ****wits!




Edited for this article. Sounds horrific.
From disbelief to dread: the dismal new routine of life in Sydney's smoke haze | Charlotte Wood | Australia news | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/dec/07/from-disbelief-to-dread-the-dismal-new-routine-of-life-in-sydneys-smoke-haze)

[Eevo]

It will be a very courageous person who decides if all these New Years Fireworks displays happen in Oz.

For the first time they may see some sense.

"Oh but we need to do it to improve the morale of the populace after all these fires"


Sure you do by lighting more fires & polluting the air even more. ****wits!


explain the fireworks things to me and im not "getting it"

[4bee]

explain the fireworks things to me and im not "getting it"


Shirley you jest? :rolleyes:

[101RRS]

It will be a very courageous person who decides if all these New Years Fireworks displays happen in Oz.

For the first time they may see some sense.



Surely you jest about common sense - a few weeks back it was a total fire ban in the Sydney metropolitan area - quite correctly a goose in Blacktown was prosecuted for cooking his breakfast on a charcoal BBQ in his backyard, yet that night the fireworks in the city went ahead even though the total fire ban was still in place.

Of course the New Years Eve Fireworks will be going ahead irrespective whether there is a fire ban or not.

[4bee]

Ah well "You reap what you sow don't you," or they do.

I just wish selfish & inconsiderate people wouldn't take the **** & steal the air I & my family ( including little kids) wish to breath.



Fireworks: Their Impact on the Environment - terrapass


101. It wasn't the Fire Ban so much as all the gasses & crap left afterwards that we have to contend with into the future. It is as though no-one gives a flying **** anymore.
(https://www.terrapass.com/fireworks-impact-environment)

[Eevo]

Shirley you jest? :rolleyes:

no. fireworks make most people happy. (except me, i just dont care)

[4bee]

Even when their residence is in flames.



Valerie. "I'm so pleased they didn't cancel the Fireworks Brenton. The sight of our house burning down makes me all orgasmic".


Brenton. "I'm so happy for you too Val that'll be a first, right. Our marriage is now fulfilled. Now where is that Builder's phone number? Bloody Fireworks!" [biggrin]

[Eevo]

Even when their residence is in flames.




5 million houses vs 700 houses lost.
the needs of the many.

[Eevo]

also the cost to the economy of not running fireworks would be great

[4bee]

If people don't turn up there certainly will be a Cost to the Community.

I get the impression Sinneysiders will be ****ed off up to the eyeballs having to sit in more smoke with their kids for pleasure, but they are obviously a hardy lot, so who can say?

[4bee]

Surely you jest about common sense - a few weeks back it was a total fire ban in the Sydney metropolitan area - quite correctly a goose in Blacktown was prosecuted for cooking his breakfast on a charcoal BBQ in his backyard, yet that night the fireworks in the city went ahead even though the total fire ban was still in place.

Of course the New Years Eve Fireworks will be going ahead irrespective whether there is a fire ban or not.

Just noticed "Blacktown" you said. Christ you couldn't make it up.[biggrin][biggrin][biggrin]

[Eevo]

Just noticed "Blacktown" you said. Christ you couldn't make it up.[biggrin][biggrin][biggrin]

almost as good as there being a firestation in burnside..

[DiscoMick]

Some places have already cancelled their fireworks.

Update: More Christmas Fireworks cancelled with money to go to bushfire appeal | Practical Parenting Australia (https://www.practicalparenting.com.au/update-more-christmas-fireworks-cancelled-with-money-to-go-to-bushfire-appeal)

[Bigbjorn]

Surely you jest about common sense - a few weeks back it was a total fire ban in the Sydney metropolitan area - quite correctly a goose in Blacktown was prosecuted for cooking his breakfast on a charcoal BBQ in his backyard, yet that night the fireworks in the city went ahead even though the total fire ban was still in place.


When I worked briefly for Brisbane Gas Co. long ago it was not unknown to go to an address to pick up a meter where the supply had been disconnected for non-payment and not re-connected, to find the residents cooking on an open fire. No total fire ban then though.

Usually Housing Commission renters with sole parent families. Poorest of the poor. No Sole Parent Pension then.

[4bee]

Surely you jest about common sense - a few weeks back it was a total fire ban in the Sydney metropolitan area - quite correctly a goose in Blacktown was prosecuted for cooking his breakfast on a charcoal BBQ in his backyard, yet that night the fireworks in the city went ahead even though the total fire ban was still in place.


Shirley that is not right? You meant a bloke has cooked his Goose not his Brekkie. Well, if he was prosecuted he certainly would have.

I saw what you did there 101.

[biggrin]


Saying that the money will go to the Bushfire Appeal Mick seems a bit of an out although very welcome I'm sure.

What they meant to say was........ "We agree with 4bee on Aulro that extra servings of smoke will be unpopular so we will make ourselves look good in the Ratepayer's eyes & get some more Brownie Points"

I may even get a Greta Thunberg Award & a few million UN $ notes in my back pocket if I play my cards right.[happycry]


Cynical? Moi?[bigsad] [biggrin]

[Saitch]

Is this the award of which you speak ?

[4bee]

Well sort of Steve, but with less strings.[smilebigeye]

Hey, there is no Hip pocket for me UN dosh.[happycry].

[DiscoMick]

If that fire reaches the Mt Piper power station it will cut 10% of NSW's electricity. If it gets into the nearby coal mine it could be very difficult to put out and cause enormous air pollution. [emoji15]

'The last thing we need': Mega-fire could hit power station, coal mine
NSW RFS fears Blue Mountains bushfire could hit power station, coal mine - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-12-17/nsw-rfs-worried-bushfire-could-hit-power-station-and-coal-mine/11805432)

[incisor]

also the cost to the economy of not running fireworks would be great

is measured in the many millions by all accounts

the stats i read on it a couple years ago staggered me

so many thousands from overseas specifically to see them

the refunds leaving the economy might dint the surplus [bigrolf]

[Eevo]

plus the contract for the fireworks would of been signed months ago and paid up.

[4bee]

You just read that didn't you? I hope not too many others haven't.

[Eevo]

You just read that didn't you? I hope not too many others haven't.

no? link?