Limped into Eden NSW - intercooler hose?

[Ralph1Malph]

Hi All, limped the chariot into our booked van site at Eden NSW this p.m. Loss of power and heaps of black smoke under load for about the last 60km. I suspect a split intercooler hose as we've been towing all day. I'm yet to check as she's still hot, but I've never done hoses on a tdv6 so I'll need to sus out how. If I can access them, and one is split, I'll have to make and mend as there is little chance of getting one on a Sunday before Christmas. Luckily I have a selection of tools on board, but if anyone is local and can assist, I'd appreciate a pm! I'd provide Christmas cheer for your troubles! Ralph

[PerthDisco]

It’s normally the large easy accessible top hose that splits. Self amalgamating tape from Supercheap will get you through.

[Ralph1Malph]

Dagnabbit! Removed the easier top hose, seems ok. Gave it a squeeze all around, no obvious splits. I did nic it when I sliced off the protective wrap, but it seems ok. Do they delaminate inside like the td5 ones? Interestingly the bottom of the intercooler seemed quite clean. No oil slick inside the outlet, only a very thin film. It is the cool side though. Same for the hose. Oh well, on to the inlet side.

[Graeme]

My son's 3.0 D4 recently lacked power, used excessive fuel and produced excessive black smoke which was caused by loss of electrical contact on the inlet air temp sensor (post I/C) whereby the ECM assumed the temperature to be -40 deg. It would be prudent to disconnect then refit that connector.

[Ralph1Malph]

Curious. I put my GAP diagnostic tool on and read the faults. There were two that worried me. Exhaust gas recirculation sensor low, and turbocharger underboost. I cleared them (without saving the log d'oh) and am only able to get the exhaust gas fault to return. I'll keep looking I guess. Turbo boost pressure reports as N/A which is also a bit strange but I am not quite sure what that parameter measures.

[hpal]

Hey mate,
I had a similar thing on my D3 while in Melbourne last month. Loss of power and bags of black smoke under load. Checked intercooler hoses and all good. Fault codes were to do with the egr's (stuck open) so I blanked them off, easy job as mine turned out to be EU3 engine and can blank them with no check engine light. I undid these two pipes going into the intake and just crimped them over with a hammer as a quick fix, been going well for months now don't think i'll even touch them again and the car is back to normal.
http://alservices.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/TDV6-EGR-005.jpg

[Ralph1Malph]

Thanks hpal! Unfortunately mine is already blanked. My GAP tool does indicate one valve is open 18% but that shouldn't matter as both ends are blanked. I'll Google a bit to see if I can confirm the boost or turbo operation.

[16PMark]

Hey mate,
I had a similar thing on my D3 while in Melbourne last month. Loss of power and bags of black smoke under load. Checked intercooler hoses and all good. Fault codes were to do with the egr's (stuck open) so I blanked them off, easy job as mine turned out to be EU3 engine and can blank them with no check engine light. I undid these two pipes going into the intake and just crimped them over with a hammer as a quick fix, been going well for months now don't think i'll even touch them again and the car is back to normal.
http://alservices.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/TDV6-EGR-005.jpgWhy ya wearing gloves??
Do you have allergies?
Or are you a new age bloke that requires moisturising every night?

[hpal]

I'm just a decent guy trying to help a fellow enthusiast out as I was helped in the same situation! This was just a random photo from the internet of what I was wanting to show, but FYI I DO wear gloves when working on sooty intake bits and in general because I'm not some big caveman who thinks that if you wear PPE you are less of a man. I use my brain, and wear my gloves.
156396
Not surprising....

[INter674]

Local LR indie mech/tech wears gloves..."you have to working on these cars" he said!! My son is over 6' ...90 kegs plus and broad as an axe man and he does too. I'll intro you when he's working on cars. See how you go re the gloves issue😎

PS I don't cause I can't feel the tool properly☺

[theelms66]

I usually take mine off for that procedure. [emoji38]

[Ralph1Malph]

Ok. Last thing to check if I can is the turbo waste gate actuator. I am guessing from googling that wiggling the actuator is no easy task. Am I wrong? Is there a swear free method to wiggling it? Ralph

[josh.huber]

I believe there is a method of using a bent coat hanger. However not swearing will only make the job longer. The first question I ask people when diagnosing over the phone is" did you call it a $&@", I think I read a post about 4 months ago describing how to do it and the op now does it during a service

[Ralph1Malph]

Cheers Josh. Actually easy to do with a coat hanger special tool! Luckily, or unluckily, mine was nice and free. So we've stuck our van in storage and am proceeding to Melb. So far, so good, chariot will hold 100 and only fades uphill will still hold 85-90 though. Not as much smoke as when pulling the van, but it's still apparent under load and doesnt pull well. I'll ring around the Melbourne indies on Monday and see if one can take a quick look. Perplexing indeed.

[josh.huber]

So I obviously need to ask, did you call it a "&$/?"

[josh.huber]

Get ya Mrs to jam her left foot on the brake and the right foot on the throttle while she's in gear. Hopefully the boost shows itself to you. I mean both feet to the floor. Even the right one. Nothing will break

[josh.huber]

They do kill inlet manifolds, I've never seen one but they happen

[Ralph1Malph]

So I obviously need to ask, did you call it a "&$/?"Not really [emoji16]. I have height extension rods so I was able pop it up high and reach in easy.

[Blackrex]

Curious. I put my GAP diagnostic tool on and read the faults. There were two that worried me. Exhaust gas recirculation sensor low, and turbocharger underboost. I cleared them (without saving the log d'oh) and am only able to get the exhaust gas fault to return. I'll keep looking I guess. Turbo boost pressure reports as N/A which is also a bit strange but I am not quite sure what that parameter measures.

I had the same symptoms and errors on mine, this was the cause of it.

156511

[Ralph1Malph]

I had the same symptoms and errors on mine, this was the cause of it.

156511Ummm, what is that? (Shading my eyes coz I think I know and it's sounds expensive)

[Blackrex]

Exploded Primary Turbo compressor wheel, it's a body off fix.

[INter674]

Dang it😐

[josh.huber]

They do kill inlet manifolds, I've never seen one but they happen

I wish I just shut my mouth. I've just blown an inlet manifold. Drivers side. Ahhh the joys.

[goz007]

mmmmm what boost were you running to do that? or what did u suck in?

[DiscoJeffster]

mmmmm what boost were you running to do that? or what did u suck in?

They are renowned for it. Bad design manifolds made of plastic that split with fatigue. Common fault on the 3L 2013 and prior

[Dagilmo]

They are renowned for it. Bad design manifolds made of plastic that split with fatigue. Common fault on the 3L 2013 and prior

So, and I've been meaning to look this up, post 2013, the manifolds are not prone to splitting? If yes, is a better design, materials or both?

[DiscoJeffster]

So, and I've been meaning to look this up, post 2013, the manifolds are not prone to splitting? If yes, is a better design, materials or both?

Don’t quote me on the exact year things improved but yes, improved material thickness and radius on the curves prone to split. There are around 8 revisions of the parts so far

[Graeme]

I spotted larger and extra ribs along the outer edge and could feel that the new one was thicker in that area too.

Some of the revisions are likely to be for extra clip etc mounting points for later engine versions as the replacement manifold had lots of these that the MY10 didn't require.

[josh.huber]

mmmmm what boost were you running to do that? or what did u suck in?

Well I gotta admit it's above 220,000ks these days and I've been waiting for them to finally die.

I guess if I'm getting the newest ones now maybe I can call Cambo at Old Jaguar and talk about that remap. Seeing as though I won't have to worry about extra power on the old manifolds. Will need the wallet to recover first. Genuine manifolds and coolant outlets are not free unfortunately.

I didn't change the coolant outlet when I did the timing belts way back when so I'll do it while I'm at it.

[josh.huber]

Cheers Josh. Actually easy to do with a coat hanger special tool! Luckily, or unluckily, mine was nice and free. So we've stuck our van in storage and am proceeding to Melb. So far, so good, chariot will hold 100 and only fades uphill will still hold 85-90 though. Not as much smoke as when pulling the van, but it's still apparent under load and doesnt pull well. I'll ring around the Melbourne indies on Monday and see if one can take a quick look. Perplexing indeed.

What was the result Ralph?

[Ralph1Malph]

What was the result Ralph?


As yet unsure. She's sitting at an indy in Bris waiting for diagnosis. I'm slightly confident however as the the intercooler is fairly clean, leaving me to believe its on the intake side. I didn't get to check the intake manifold so her's hoping.
Ralph

[Ralph1Malph]

Hi All,
There were two problems....both now fixed.
The first was a cracked intake pipe to the turbo breather. This accounted for a small puff of white smoke on start up. Not part of the original problem but fixed nonetheless.
The second was as perplexing as it was unusual. The intercooler split. Unusual because of where it split and perplexing because, as a reliability engineer, I'm putting my forensic engineering hat on as I'm interested to know the root cause eg, why it happened in that spot and how!
157454157455

My initial thoughts are that the intercooler was fairly well blocked (my bad for leaving the towing eye cover off when 4x4ing) which reduced the cooling, in turn raising the pressure.

As an aside, the i/c and radiator have to be removed as a unit. There was a very soon to fail beginning of a crack in one of the plastic radiator outlets. So in went another radiator! Not cheap, but cheaper than the alternative!

Anyhoo, fixed now. I still have lumpy idle but I believe this to be two injectors approaching their limits. Next job!

Cheers
Ralph