2.7 TDV6 locking crank to remove nose bolt for oil pump replacement

[twr7cx]

I'm looking to replace my oil pump on our 2.7 TDV6 Lion motor. Have read the guide at https://www.disco3.co.uk/gallery/albums/userpics/11480/How_To_Change_the_Oil_Pump_Casing_to_the_New_Beefe d_Up_Front_Cam_Belt_Tensioner~0.pdf but confused about locking the crank in order to undo the nose bolt holding the crank timing belt cog in place.


In the guide a home made tool is used to hold the crankshaft while undoing the nose bolt:


https://i.ibb.co/LhkJmFw/Screen-Shot-2020-01-05-at-7-37-56-pm.png (https://ibb.co/LhkJmFw)


Is this required or is the flywheel locking tool, supplied in the kit, that is fitted through the starter motor hole, sufficient for this purpose?


https://i.ibb.co/q1mr8hm/Screen-Shot-2020-01-05-at-7-29-34-pm.png (https://ibb.co/q1mr8hm)


I'm not so much concerned about the timing positions but rather the strength that the flywheel locking pins are strong enough to hold the crank in position while the nose bolt is undone - i.e. that it's not going to result in ring gear on the torque converter being damaged or a snapped locking pin inside the bell housing?

[Graeme]

From personal experience I can vouch that the crankshaft locking pin is indeed strong enough.

[loanrangie]

Waste of time doing the pump on your car.

[DiscoJeffster]

Renowned UK specialist always use the flywheel locking pin and don’t bother with an crank lock

[Graeme]

The force on the bolts though that pulley locking device would be many times that on the flywheel locking pin due to the relative distances the locking pin is from the centre of the crankshaft and it doesn't hold the shaft itself and therefore could not possibly be used when tightening the (new) bolt. IMO its a piece of rubbish!

[101RRS]

I'm looking to replace my oil pump on our 2.7 TDV6 Lion motor.


Waste of time doing the pump on your car.

I am with Loanrangie - why you changing the oil pump - unless you have a issue with it there is no reason to do it.

Garry

[Grappler]

The recommended locking tool is Special tool 303-1123, which engages with the ring gear
303-1123 - Google Search (https://www.google.com/search?q=303-1123&rlz=1C1ASUC_enAU668AU672&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=BvAWEU9kxs6YSM%253A%252C05Fi7gzyLUSRyM%252C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kTeEZ_8befcVEpWgMBDkFuopeeS4g&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjwu_y26O3mAhUabisKHXB5CbYQ9QEwA3oECAgQB g#)

However, Ive only ever used the timing pin tool which didnt shear off with 100Nm plus 90 deg on the new pully retaing bolt

[twr7cx]

The recommended locking tool is Special tool 303-1123, which engages with the ring gear
303-1123 - Google Search (https://www.google.com/search?q=303-1123&rlz=1C1ASUC_enAU668AU672&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=BvAWEU9kxs6YSM%253A%252C05Fi7gzyLUSRyM%252C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kTeEZ_8befcVEpWgMBDkFuopeeS4g&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjwu_y26O3mAhUabisKHXB5CbYQ9QEwA3oECAgQB g#)

However, Ive only ever used the timing pin tool which didnt shear off with 100Nm plus 90 deg on the new pully retaing bolt

Yeah, now we are talking and someone understands what I'm on about! I didn't think that timing pin would be the factory solution. But very glad to hear a few reports that it's holding up just fine to the extra duties as the proper tools look to be GBP 100 + in price before considering international freight! Yuck.



I am with Loanrangie - why you changing the oil pump - unless you have a issue with it there is no reason to do it.

I didn't really want to get into and off topic discussion about it in this thread, but, I've been gearing up to do the timing belt and a few additional maintenance items shortly (wanted to have everything sorted and ready to minimise the vehicles time off the road). I'm also considering doing the oil pump, as although I should have the later version with the strengthened timing belt tension mount, our engine is a bit noisey at idle. Have checked the fuel injectors and they seem fine so it's been suggested it may be a lazy oil pump. Apparently JC has previously had success replacing another TDV6 one that was similar. So it's a bit of a gamble whether it's worth the extra $200.00 or so in parts plus time.

[BradC]

So it's a bit of a gamble whether it's worth the extra $200.00 or so in parts plus time.

Don't gamble. Put a pressure gauge on it and check it out.

[twr7cx]

Don't gamble. Put a pressure gauge on it and check it out.

Yes, you are right, but there doesn't seem to be much guidance on what the correct specs should be. I think it's time for a new thread to discuss this separately so that it's finable as a resource - https://www.aulro.com/afvb/l319-discovery-3-and-4-a/276277-2-7-tdv6-oil-pressure-testing-specs.html#post2964094 .

[DiscoJeffster]

Yes, you are right, but there doesn't seem to be much guidance on what the correct specs should be. I think it's time for a new thread to discuss this separately so that it's finable as a resource.

There absolutely is. If no one beats me to it it’s in the manual, but it’s not much different to most engines. 0.5-1bar at idle up to 4 bar at revs st engine operating temps (exact figures to be verified).

[BradC]

There absolutely is. If no one beats me to it it’s in the manual, but it’s not much different to most engines. 0.5-1bar at idle up to 4 bar at revs st engine operating temps (exact figures to be verified).

More numbers here also : DISCO3.CO.UK - View topic - Tdv6 oil pressure (https://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/tdv6-oil-pressure-153928.html)

[101RRS]

I'm also considering doing the oil pump, as although I should have the later version with the strengthened timing belt tension mount, our engine is a bit noisey at idle. So it's a bit of a gamble whether it's worth the extra $200.00 or so in parts plus time.

Ok so you do have some suspicions - as the belts are being done then I would be thinking the same - actually only about $170 in parts from Ford ($450 from LR) - the only issue is getting the crank bolt off which need the crank to be locked - starter needs to come out to get the relevant pin in.

For that price I would be doing it.

By the time you stuff around getting the gear and fittings to test oil pressure you would be well on the way to buying the new oil pump.

Garry

[twr7cx]

Ok so you do have some suspicions - as the belts are being done then I would be thinking the same - actually only about $170 in parts from Ford ($450 from LR) - the only issue is getting the crank bolt off which need the crank to be locked - starter needs to come out to get the relevant pin in.

For that price I would be doing it.

By the time you stuff around getting the gear and fittings to test oil pressure you would be well on the way to buying the new oil pump.

That's my thoughts. It's $170.00 for the genuine Ford pump delivered, plus I'd need a new crankshaft oil seal, two pumps seals and the new crank bolt (all of which I've already purchased either OEM or genuine Land Rover items of and have on hand ready).

[101RRS]

I think you will find that the Ford oil pump comes with the oil seal, gasket etc (all in LR packaging) - you only need the new crank bolt.

[twr7cx]

I think you will find that the Ford oil pump comes with the oil seal, gasket etc (all in LR packaging) - you only need the new crank bolt.

Bonus. The LR one doesn't according to microcat listings.

According to Microcat 2 x 1346539 oil pump seals are required:

https://d31wxntiwn0x96.cloudfront.net/hbydrg/productimages/12221_0.jpeg

[loanrangie]

I think you will find that the Ford oil pump comes with the oil seal, gasket etc (all in LR packaging) - you only need the new crank bolt.No crank seal but gasket is included.
By gasket it's actually a rubber perimeter seal.