The New Defender

[ozscott]

LCT will definitely be classified as “an onroad charge” As is GST as is rego...
Dealer delivery will be what $2500 or so?

My reading of those prices is An easy plus $10k to get a drive out the door price.
Before accessories (which get slugged with LCT too)

Won’t be too many sub $90k 110s out the door by the time people add paint / silly side ladders
Etc ...

This is a seriously luxo SUV that just happens to be quite capable off-roader
It’s too ugly to steal buyers from the RangeRover market
It’s going to be very very niche in Australia which is a shame as the relevance of LR will fade ;(

SI reckon you are on the money.

So in QLD an $80,000 D5 (2wd but better motor) is $92k on the road. The $70,000 base base base model D5 is $78,707 on the road...So even a base 110 steel wheels but say with leather seats will be $84,000 on the road in QLD. Now given how many options there are and given that even modest headlight upgrades are expensive in LR I agree that it wouldn't take long at all to get to $95_100k on the road.

Cheers
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191015/4ce0f4f11347c6490ba009e7d0d168af.jpg

[blackrangie]

I reckon you are on the money.

So in QLD an $80,000 D5 (2wd but better motor) is $92k on the road. The $70,000 base base base model D5 is $78,707 on the road...So even a base 110 steel wheels but say with leather seats will be $84,000 on the road in QLD. Now given how many options there are and given that even modest headlight upgrades are expensive in LR I agree that it wouldn't take long at all to get to $95_100k on the road.

Cheers
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191015/4ce0f4f11347c6490ba009e7d0d168af.jpgMost people that get the base model won't be getting leather seats imo.

The way i see it, if you want a bare bonesish defender and happy with 10second 0-100 its 70k+ extras

You want a reasonable power diesel with more goodies 80 to 90k + extras

You want V8 fast petrol, with economy of a smaller engine 95 to 110k + extras

This is all with EAS standard, twin speed transfer, 8speed auto, Apple carplay, android auto,dab,remote,nav, adaptive dynamics, offroad tyres, 2 zone climate control, keyless, tpms, airbags etc.

They seem to have added a fair bit more to standard than the base D5.

90 will no doubt shave around 10k off those prices.

[ozscott]

Most people that get the base model won't be getting leather seats imo.

The way i see it, if you want a bare bonesish defender and happy with 10second 0-100 its 70k+ extras

You want a reasonable power diesel with more goodies 80 to 90k + extras

You want V8 fast petrol, with economy of a smaller engine 95 to 110k + extras

This is all with EAS standard, twin speed transfer, 8speed auto, Apple carplay, android auto,dab,remote,nav, adaptive dynamics, offroad tyres, 2 zone climate control, keyless, tpms, airbags etc.

They seem to have added a fair bit more to standard than the base D5.

90 will no doubt shave around 10k off those prices.Mate the pov pack is $77k on the road. And that is cloth seats and not a thing ticked in the many boxes.

Cheers
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191015/e6d37f3b77cbff6e370e15fdbc4b9324.jpg

[Gregz]

hmmm, I think the D5 S badge has coil springs - whats the $ for the D5 SE badger?

[scarry]

Oh well see what happens after all the excitement disappears over the next Year or so,and they sort out the niggles.

Oh,and a big diesel arrives[bighmmm]

So petrol,SE,tick a couple of boxes,and you will be around $120K[bigsad]

[scarry]

[emoji50][emoji50][emoji50]Wow... that's ummm, quite a bit of money. Allot more then the previous model that's for sure !

Only about double[bighmmm]

[101RRS]

So in QLD an $80,000 D5 (2wd but better motor) is $92k on the road.

I thought the D5 was constant 4wd with optional low range - I didn't realise there was a 2wd version - who would buy that.

[ozscott]

Sorry yes. I meant no low range. Cheers

[scarry]

I thought the D5 was constant 4wd with optional low range - I didn't realise there was a 2wd version - who would buy that.

Someone that doesn’t like the latest Holden wagon and has a heap of cash......

[scarry]

So if you get Satin wrap over the metallic paint,that’s $7K......[bigwhistle]

Just glad I don’t mind appliance white[thumbsupbig]

So you guys were right no 18” wheels for petrol.

[101RRS]

As expected LR has got greedy - at those prices they will be priced out of the market - if anyone can afford to buy one with a couple of options will probably have the money to buy a RRS for only a little more.

Cross this off the list.

The Jappers are starting to look even better value.

Garry

[SpudHeadTed]

I’m not at all surprised by these prices. JLR see themselves as a premium brand (whatever that means) and were never going to price the new Defender down anywhere near the prices of the previous model (which was always a bargain IMO).

Similar pricing to Toyota:
A GXL Workmate wagon is $75000 and the base Defender has a lot more fruit.
A base 200 series is $85,000 and up from there.

Unfortunately $100k is the new norm for a fully equipped new 4x4 wagon.

A base model new Defender at $77,000 drive away may come to be seen as a bargain given all the tech, safety equip, etc.

Whether the new Defender reclaims market share will all be in the quality of the drive and its reliability over the next few years. It’s not the price.

One thing’s for sure, current prices of 2009-2016 Defenders are not going to fall.

[ozscott]

I’m not at all surprised by these prices. JLR see themselves as a premium brand (whatever that means) and were never going to price the new Defender down anywhere near the prices of the previous model (which was always a bargain IMO).

Similar pricing to Toyota.
A GXL Workmate wagon is $75000 and the Defender has a lot more fruit.
A base 200 series is $85,000 and up from there.

Unfortunately $100k is the new norm for a fully equipped new 4x4 wagon.

A base model new Defender at $77,000 drive away may come to be seen as a bargain given all the tech, safety equip, etc

One thing’s for sure, current prices of 2009-2016 Defenders are not going to fall.Mate I can't see the asking price of a second hand stock 110 being maintained. Are they back to sensible sales now ? I wouldn't pay more than $35 For a sub 50k klm model of the last 2 years in which they were making them (in excellent condition). But I'm not the market[emoji1787].

[SpudHeadTed]

Mate I can't see the asking price of a second hand stock 110 being maintained. Are they back to sensible sales now ? I wouldn't pay more than $35 For a sub 50k klm model of the last 2 years in which they were making them (in excellent condition). But I'm not the market[emoji1787].

No mate they’re still $50k+.

As I say, they were under priced new at $50k. In the current market they are still a bargain at $50k even with 100,000km on the clock.

[blackrangie]

I thought the D5 was constant 4wd with optional low range - I didn't realise there was a 2wd version - who would buy that.Blacktop tourers,certain commercial fleet buyers, city only buyers.

[blackrangie]

So if you get Satin wrap over the metallic paint,that’s $7K......[bigwhistle]

Just glad I don’t mind appliance white[thumbsupbig]

So you guys were right no 18” wheels for petrol.True, thats not bad though, my RRC cost 12k to paint and 4.5k to wrap in clear.

Wrapping is a great idea and having that covered under factory warranty not bad either. Rip it all off when you want to sell or leave as is if not too bad.

Self heals small scratches.

[blackrangie]

As expected LR has got greedy - at those prices they will be priced out of the market - if anyone can afford to buy one with a couple of options will probably have the money to buy a RRS for only a little more.

Cross this off the list.

The Jappers are starting to look even better value.

Garry

Cant see that at all, its priced inline with LC200 or cheaper at base, cheaper than Gwagon professional.

More car on both counts as per my post above on what is standard.

RRS is a RRS, I've never looked at one as a tourer, weekend truck. But that's just my tastes i know it can do it.

New defender is a different animal with different buyers compared to the RRS.

To me its a Proper 4x4, right combo of utilitarian, comfort, safety, power @ a reasonable price for what you get.

[101RRS]

No mate they’re still $50k+.

As I say, they were under priced new at $50k.

Maybe for a basic 90 but even when the Puma 110s were first released they were $65k on the road - a lot of money for holes in the floor, ripples in new body work, exposed rivets everywhere along with all the leaks. Yes on paper were around $53K but in reality when you got a 110 into your driveway were $65K.

[ozscott]

When I bought my D2 the Deefender 110 was only a few K more. Wasn't much in it. Had drive both and couldn't go past the D2. Never regretted that even with the crazy prices for a used Defender in recent years , but horses for courses etc.

Cheers

[blackrangie]

Thoughts on this?

Only available on defender 110

Analogue Dials with Central TFT Display
038IC

Also no interactive driver display

How would analog dials differ? Is it referring to speedo area? So just 1 digital screen?

[roverrescue]

I guess one benefit of the JLR woeful resale on their luxo SUVs is that a $100k 2020 model will be worth sub $50k by 2022/3 !

I’m sorry BR I know your in love from first sight but this is not the model that will save JLR from oblivion

S

[roverrescue]

I wonder if the usual JLR luxo SUV advanced depreciation takes place on this one?
2020 $100k units will be worth sub $50k by Christmas 2022!

Perhaps at that price the capability will outweigh the ugly?

S

[scarry]

Maybe for a basic 90 but even when the Puma 110s were first released they were $65k on the road - a lot of money for holes in the floor, ripples in new body work, exposed rivets everywhere along with all the leaks. Yes on paper were around $53K but in reality when you got a 110 into your driveway were $65K.

The one in my sig was $52K,driveaway,but in ‘09.

Can’t see it being worth anywhere near $40 or more,in immaculate condition,today.

I will report back because it’s going to a new home next year.

FWI,a 76 GXL is $69 000 today
GXL 200,$86K
VX 200 $96K
Sahara. $116K

That’s approx driveaway prices Qld,depending on fleet discount,etc.

With a much better warranty than 2020 Defender.

So 2020 Defender is not miles away in price from LC,as I guessed.

IMHO,a completely different vehicle from the Tojos.

[Tombie]

Tombie - Me thinks your P400 budget just exploded!

S

All good - we just up-specced the order to the P400 “X”.

Why the heck not [emoji48]

[1nando]

Most people that get the base model won't be getting leather seats imo.

The way i see it, if you want a bare bonesish defender and happy with 10second 0-100 its 70k+ extras

You want a reasonable power diesel with more goodies 80 to 90k + extras

You want V8 fast petrol, with economy of a smaller engine 95 to 110k + extras

This is all with EAS standard, twin speed transfer, 8speed auto, Apple carplay, android auto,dab,remote,nav, adaptive dynamics, offroad tyres, 2 zone climate control, keyless, tpms, airbags etc.

They seem to have added a fair bit more to standard than the base D5.

90 will no doubt shave around 10k off those prices.I love the look of the new defender and the straight 6 looks appealing but at $110k plus on roads and extras..... That's a joke.
If that's the pricing for a 110 with that engine then it looks like it will be a new s5 patrol for me[emoji2369]

[ozscott]

I love the look of the new defender and the straight 6 looks appealing but at $110k plus on roads and extras..... That's a joke.
If that's the pricing for a 110 with that engine then it looks like it will be a new s5 patrol for me[emoji2369]

2020 Nissan Patrol leaked | CarAdvice (https://www.caradvice.com.au/788871/2020-nissan-patrol-leaked/)

Looks very nice.

[1nando]

2020 Nissan Patrol leaked | CarAdvice (https://www.caradvice.com.au/788871/2020-nissan-patrol-leaked/)

Looks very nice.I think it looks great, and the power train is proven and bullet proof. I'll also save $30k if the pricing on here is anyhting to go by. Do I think the new defender is $30k better than the new patrol?.......No!

I refuse to pay roughly $130k for a reasonably loaded 110, there simply is no value that I can see to make me think otherwise.

The disco 5 is about to become LR's most irrelevant vehcile and depreciate like an anchor!

[rar110]

I think it looks great, and the power train is proven and bullet proof. I'll also save $30k if the pricing on here is anyhting to go by. Do I think the new defender is $30k better than the new patrol?.......No!

I refuse to pay roughly $130k for a reasonably loaded 110, there simply is no value that I can see to make me think otherwise.

The disco 5 is about to become LR's most irrelevant vehcile and depreciate like an anchor!

I think the D5 used might be a good priced alternative to a new Defender. I still think the D5 is a bit fugly and would even consider a L494. Both are more than capable for what I need.

In reality I’m probably not looking at changing over from the L322 for a couple of years. Will see what the options look like then.

[blackrangie]

I love the look of the new defender and the straight 6 looks appealing but at $110k plus on roads and extras..... That's a joke.
If that's the pricing for a 110 with that engine then it looks like it will be a new s5 patrol for me[emoji2369]Go for it, pricing is no different to a cruiser, but the new defender is lightyears ahead.

[blackrangie]

2020 Nissan Patrol leaked | CarAdvice (https://www.caradvice.com.au/788871/2020-nissan-patrol-leaked/)

Looks very nice.Defender looks very utilitarian in comparison imo, Nissan lost the looks plot from Y62 onwards(in standard form), love the engine though!

[1nando]

Go for it, pricing is no different to a cruiser, but the new defender is lightyears ahead.I almost bought a 200, then I test drove the y62 and the rest is history. Also your kidding yourself if you think the patrol isn't HD, the new one is tee same car with only cosmetic changes.

LR wants to increase its sales, that's what they're telling us anyway. Why the hell would you price it around a cruiser? The cruiser is over rated and represents terrible value for money but it has something that LR lost 30 years ago and that's reputation. The whole world recognises the landcruiser name plate and thinks reliability, tough and robust design and they sell well. Please note I'm not in anyway a cruiser fan and I think the y62 eats it for breakfast but most people are sheep and that's the reputation Toyota has built. People love Toyota, fact!

Now, the way I see things is like this; mum and dad want to buy a large 4wd vehcile that can transport the family safely, tow and go offraod occasionally so they price up a new 110 and with some niceties and on road it costs $130k with a 3 year warranty. Then they consider the 200 series which is loved around the world and realise a Sahara will cost $120k and has a 5 year warranty...... you can try to convince yourself otherwise but that 200 will outsell it 10-1, similar to how it out sells y62 patrol and disco 5 (people in this country love diesel 4wds not petrol).

Defender should be no more than $100k on road with a 5 year warranty, that would mean that the d5 would still have a market and keep defender at the bottom of the range (where it belongs). It would also captivate a greater market share at this price range, once you go over $100k looking for a HD offroad vehicle Toyota is always going to be the number 1 choice, I don't like Toyota but the sales speak for themselves.

I hope you guys are wrong on pricing.....[emoji1696]

[roverrescue]

Totally agree Nando apart from one point
Sales of 200 will exceed this thing 20:1 !
And I wouldn’t discount the poxy 3 year warranty

JLR , if they want to prove they have improved quality need to stand by their product
3 years is literally a joke

At 3 years of you bought this on terms you will be upside down due to depreciation and have a vehicle that is out of warranty with lots to go wrong

Compare that to a Y62 or 200 and do the maths

S

[blackrangie]

I almost bought a 200, then I test drove the y62 and the rest is history. Also your kidding yourself if you think the patrol isn't HD, the new one is tee same car with only cosmetic changes.

LR wants to increase its sales, that's what they're telling us anyway. Why the hell would you price it around a cruiser? The cruiser is over rated and represents terrible value for money but it has something that LR lost 30 years ago and that's reputation. The whole world recognises the landcruiser name plate and thinks reliability, tough and robust design and they sell well. Please note I'm not in anyway a cruiser fan and I think the y62 eats it for breakfast but most people are sheep and that's the reputation Toyota has built. People love Toyota, fact!

Now, the way I see things is like this; mum and dad want to buy a large 4wd vehcile that can transport the family safely, tow and go offraod occasionally so they price up a new 110 and with some niceties and on road it costs $130k with a 3 year warranty. Then they consider the 200 series which is loved around the world and realise a Sahara will cost $120k and has a 5 year warranty...... you can try to convince yourself otherwise but that 200 will outsell it 10-1, similar to how it out sells y62 patrol and disco 5 (people in this country love diesel 4wds not petrol).

Defender should be no more than $100k on road with a 5 year warranty, that would mean that the d5 would still have a market and keep defender at the bottom of the range (where it belongs). It would also captivate a greater market share at this price range, once you go over $100k looking for a HD offroad vehicle Toyota is always going to be the number 1 choice, I don't like Toyota but the sales speak for themselves.

I hope you guys are wrong on pricing.....[emoji1696]

Nissan, nobody mentioned not HD, just they lost the looks plot imo. Having said that the exterior and interior certainly looks much less HD than the new defender, same goes for the cruiser.

A LC200 is still a cruiser, nothing special imo. The defender is special and on paper a much better 4x4 both onroad and off all things considered. And its in a different league of vehicle as others have stated, comparing just price doesn't work.

As you alude to its all about value proposition for the buyer, the new defender is priced similar but much more value.

For me the value proposition of a special utilitarian 4x4 thats modern, comfortable, safe, good looking, airspung, future proof and most likely best in class on and offroad at nearly everything speaks for itself.

If you want average buy average, if you want something above average buy that if its within your means, features cost money and pricing reflects that.

Having everything the new defender has as standard is not cheap, pricing is fair imo when you look at pricing of the 4x4s most believe will be its competitors and what are standard features in them and their on paper capability limits.

For sure you can get a new defender onroad for under 100k with 5 year warranty, very easy to achieve even if you had to pay a few grand for extended warranty. Australia's consumer guarantee law covers us anyway (warranties are a bit of a scam in AU, but I admit having one makes it easier)

We didnt pay a cent extra for 5 years warranty, 5 years servicing, 5 years roadside on our last JLR purchase (special deal at time of purchase)

If you want a truckload of bells and whistles however they dont grow on trees and you must pay, they are smart releasing volume buyer pricing through to high end, 90 will be less, im sure they will do higher priced svx in future too.

Land rover from my understanding doesn't need to sell the most 4x4s as their price point is higher, they just want to sell a lot more than 20k p/y and of that 5k to non fleet buyers that the defender sold on average in its last few years, which imo they will do very very easily.

[blackrangie]

Some good shots from slovakia showing the roofrack really well. Great design, allows sunroof/ragtop with rack on.

Very complimentary to the spape

Also has the checker protection infront of guards and on rear light area.

Cant wait to see one with all the gear including the AU winchbar.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191015/769fe0f707a66a544f487d2692ef813c.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191015/ffff97523141e4b76fcbb4c219f09a50.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191015/64ceb57c9dfac4534956109c2d1b9057.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191015/e2caa4bcb7fd901f296fac4d0a7bd8cd.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191015/3dcb7e0de41fc645947fc8798eccdd2e.jpg

[4bee]

Well stated BR. Top explanation.:TakeABow:


As my olde boss would say, if he wasn't 6' under or in the Ash Vase is " You can't get something for nothing" or in his case it would be, "Yer can't get sumfin fer nuffink"

"The law of business just doesn't allow it blah blah blah ad nauseum".

He was right as well.[smilebigeye]




Re the above images, one has to say though that it is not the most loveliest & graceful looking thing on wheels.[bigsad]

[Tombie]

I would suggest that the highest spec “last Defender” [emoji6] at around $56k vs the new base spec at $69k isn’t too bad.

You take 9 years into account and the fact the base model has more gear than any in the previous model and you’re getting your $13k worth.

The fact so many options are available just improves the units appeal.

Take for example “Baytown” and his 110. Once he optioned it up, added all the bits and pieces his would easily owe him $100k. Nothing wrong with that at all.

With the new model it’s just easy to have almost all the value mods factory fitted, a better ride, better handling and less compromises when it’s doing its city cycle.

Remember Australia is really the only country which hasn’t gained economic ground since the GFC with wage stagnation and an overwhelming dependence on Housing sector, the rest, USA for example, has forged ahead. A new Defender for them is priced about right to make inroads.

I also did some work on TCO, and the semi-hybrid adds a fuel saving to the equation that offsets some of the cost over time. Compared to others (V8 LC and Patrol) a reasonable saving is to be had in fuel and in SA at least in registration and insurance.

My D4 has the highest sticker price of any LR I’ve owned, in the modification costs it’s been the cheapest I’ve owned and still done everything asked of it.

Leasing the new Defender “X” will only cost me $200 a fortnight more than the D4 did.

[grey_ghost]

Thanks for posting up the pricing and the specification guide.

Unfortunately for me (and I think a fair few members on here) - LR have done what we all feared. Which is - price themselves at the high end, and when you start adding options and packs - kill off my dreams of owning a new Defender.

I think that it's probably a great vehicle, and I will still wait like a fool for the 90 to be released - but based on this pricing, I'm certain that I am wasting my time.

I'm surprised that LR haven't charged people for air in the tyres... [wink11]

[4bee]

5 tyres @ a grand per tyre = 5 grand. Hhmm, makes sense to me. [biggrin]

[DiscoDB]

When I consider the new Defender I am actually seeing the proper next evolution of the D1 to D4 journey. The D5 is more like an upsized and upmarket version of the Freelander primarily targeting city usage.

No doubt disappointing for old Defender owners but clearly the new Defender is looking to reposition itself with the target market. Just like the D1 was a viable replacement for the RRC, the new Defender will attract those of us who progressed from RRC’s, to D1/2 and on to the D3/4 but will never consider a D5.

Having said that - I will be waiting another 5 plus years to see what the new Defender Series 2 looks like. I predict by then they will nail it - just as they did with the D2 and then D4.

I do think JLR are missing an opportunity in the Ute segment if they want to tap into a growth market. Perhaps this is where something built on a Tata platform with some LR technology, drive train and branding comes in.

[blackrangie]

I would suggest that the highest spec “last Defender” [emoji6] at around $56k vs the new base spec at $69k isn’t too bad.

You take 9 years into account and the fact the base model has more gear than any in the previous model and you’re getting your $13k worth.

The fact so many options are available just improves the units appeal.

Take for example “Baytown” and his 110. Once he optioned it up, added all the bits and pieces his would easily owe him $100k. Nothing wrong with that at all.

With the new model it’s just easy to have almost all the value mods factory fitted, a better ride, better handling and less compromises when it’s doing its city cycle.

Remember Australia is really the only country which hasn’t gained economic ground since the GFC with wage stagnation and an overwhelming dependence on Housing sector, the rest, USA for example, has forged ahead. A new Defender for them is priced about right to make inroads.

I also did some work on TCO, and the semi-hybrid adds a fuel saving to the equation that offsets some of the cost over time. Compared to others (V8 LC and Patrol) a reasonable saving is to be had in fuel and in SA at least in registration and insurance.

My D4 has the highest sticker price of any LR I’ve owned, in the modification costs it’s been the cheapest I’ve owned and still done everything asked of it.

Leasing the new Defender “X” will only cost me $200 a fortnight more than the D4 did.Agreed base is reasonable for what you get, its actually very tempting to get the bare bones with walkthrough the more you look at it from a simplicity POV..its definitely going to be tough this week making the call on which direction to go.

[101RRS]

With early adopters like BR and Tombie around and LR traditional depreciation rates, I will be in a good position to move into a near new top spec Defender for a good price in a couple of years [thumbsupbig]

[DiscoDB]

Agreed base is reasonable for what you get, its actually very tempting to get the bare bones with walkthrough the more you look at it from a simplicity POV..its definitely going to be tough this week making the call on which direction to go.

Tend to agree - I would look carefully though at some of the options like the Off-Road Pack and Towing Pack on top of the base model. These look to represent better value for money than say upgrading to the D240.

[loanrangie]

Some good shots from slovakia showing the roofrack really well. Great design, allows sunroof/ragtop with rack on.

Very complimentary to the spape

Also has the checker protection infront of guards and on rear light area.

Cant wait to see one with all the gear including the AU winchbar.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191015/769fe0f707a66a544f487d2692ef813c.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191015/ffff97523141e4b76fcbb4c219f09a50.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191015/64ceb57c9dfac4534956109c2d1b9057.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191015/e2caa4bcb7fd901f296fac4d0a7bd8cd.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191015/3dcb7e0de41fc645947fc8798eccdd2e.jpg

those wheels in gloss black would look :cool:.

[blackrangie]

Another point that needs to be considered, will ordering accessories delay order. If so what accessories will delay. Anyone heard?

The pricelist for some reason shows no accessories to speak off and all are also not showing online yet in AU

[blackrangie]

Will be interesting in 2020 also when the hybrid, 90 and fabric roof for both the 90 and 110 are released along with apparently all the accessories and the AU winchbar.

[DiscoDB]

When selecting options also keep an eye out for the standard features that get deselected.

For example it appears as if Adaptive Dynamics can not be had with some of the options once added.

[blackrangie]

Here's the US brochure, shows what will be available later in AU at dealers (upgrades to packs etc)

Disc brake sizes found for 90/110

D5 for comparison

P400 def matches SD6 in disc size but caliper is different. 4 piston on front as opposed to 2
D5154989https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191016/41979b9ba211860d95c0b99be02e86b9.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191016/d583f8c388e88830307251a6b19faa3a.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191016/e1b0427d13d27c267901ad78b5d47820.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191016/794eb0136f1cb09ff7b61d9ee34fe50e.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191016/5569745ea9fa67c88fda190cf0219b9f.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191016/4bc5f5a5a023ef3eff3c31a9c48aa5bc.jpg

[scarry]

With early adopters like BR and Tombie around and LR traditional depreciation rates, I will be in a good position to move into a near new top spec Defender for a good price in a couple of years [thumbsupbig]

yes,just when it starts to need some expensive maintenance and repairs....[bighmmm]

[1nando]

Nissan, nobody mentioned not HD, just they lost the looks plot imo. Having said that the exterior and interior certainly looks much less HD than the new defender, same goes for the cruiser.

A LC200 is still a cruiser, nothing special imo. The defender is special and on paper a much better 4x4 both onroad and off all things considered. And its in a different league of vehicle as others have stated, comparing just price doesn't work.

As you alude to its all about value proposition for the buyer, the new defender is priced similar but much more value.

For me the value proposition of a special utilitarian 4x4 thats modern, comfortable, safe, good looking, airspung, future proof and most likely best in class on and offroad at nearly everything speaks for itself.

If you want average buy average, if you want something above average buy that if its within your means, features cost money and pricing reflects that.

Having everything the new defender has as standard is not cheap, pricing is fair imo when you look at pricing of the 4x4s most believe will be its competitors and what are standard features in them and their on paper capability limits.

For sure you can get a new defender onroad for under 100k with 5 year warranty, very easy to achieve even if you had to pay a few grand for extended warranty. Australia's consumer guarantee law covers us anyway (warranties are a bit of a scam in AU, but I admit having one makes it easier)

We didnt pay a cent extra for 5 years warranty, 5 years servicing, 5 years roadside on our last JLR purchase (special deal at time of purchase)

If you want a truckload of bells and whistles however they dont grow on trees and you must pay, they are smart releasing volume buyer pricing through to high end, 90 will be less, im sure they will do higher priced svx in future too.

Land rover from my understanding doesn't need to sell the most 4x4s as their price point is higher, they just want to sell a lot more than 20k p/y and of that 5k to non fleet buyers that the defender sold on average in its last few years, which imo they will do very very easily.Buyers base "value" on many different criteria. For example, cargo size, seating, tech gear, safety, etc then that value is cross checked against things like reliabilty, serviceability, warranty etc. "Value" is the overall package, at least to me. I'll give you an example: G professional. Here you have a HD vehcile similar to a defender only built tougher, with a great engine and trusted by our military yet it doesn't sell. Why? Because it's trying to crack a market dominated by Toyota and the price point is completely ridiculous. If the G was $80k they would sell many many more units. It would take sales away from Toyota 70 series, jeep rubicon, and probably a few others, but no one wants to pay $110k for it because it's hard to find the "Value" proposition to justify purchase.

LR has a terrible reliabilty reputation, as much as some on here might disagree with that fact it's actually true and LR has no one to blame but themselves! They are not on the 15 most reliable vehicle manufacturers list in Australia, in fact john cadogan showed a list where they were in the top 15 worst! New Car Reliability | 2019 Brand Ratings – Canstar Blue (https://www.canstarblue.com.au/vehicles/reliability/)

You can argue all you like but this is factored in when people are looking at the "Value" proposition of a vehicle, reliabilty and reputation.

A top speced cruiser at 120k will be bought every day of the week over a well speced 110 at $130k. Why? Simply because Toyota has the reputation for reliabilty, that's why the LC is the number one selling large SUV in that segment in most markets except the middle East and USA where it is beaten by the y62/ Armada. That reputation is worth gold! Will your average mum and dad buy a $130k LR that has a reputation for breaking down and then take it out bush, tow? No! Why? Because every other car out bush is a Toyota, so they assume that's what they need to buy and since there's no value in the 130k defender they go straight to the LC. Again I'm not a Toyota fan, but the sales speak for themselves.

Also a little twin turbo 2ltr diesel ain't going to attract or win over any Toyota or Nissan fans. Again you'll argue this point but I'm just highlighting peoples perception and we all know what our mates think of LR!

[SpudHeadTed]

Agreed base is reasonable for what you get, its actually very tempting to get the bare bones with walkthrough the more you look at it from a simplicity POV..its definitely going to be tough this week making the call on which direction to go.

Thats what I’d do if I were to buy one next year.

But then I’m more interested in the hybrid, or the EV to follow.

[scarry]

Buyers base "value" on many different criteria. For example, cargo size, seating, tech gear, safety, etc then that value is cross checked against things like reliabilty, serviceability, warranty etc. "Value" is the overall package, at least to me. I'll give you an example: G professional. Here you have a HD vehcile similar to a defender only built tougher, with a great engine and trusted by our military yet it doesn't sell. Why? Because it's trying to crack a market dominated by Toyota and the price point is completely ridiculous. If the G was $80k they would sell many many more units. It would take sales away from Toyota 70 series, jeep rubicon, and probably a few others, but no one wants to pay $110k for it because it's hard to find the "Value" proposition.

LR has a terrible reliabilty reputation, as much as some on here might disagree with that fact it's actually true and LR has no one to blame but themselves! They are not on the 15 most reliable vehicle manufacturers list in Australia, in fact john cadogan showed a list where they were in the top 15 worst! New Car Reliability | 2019 Brand Ratings – Canstar Blue (https://www.canstarblue.com.au/vehicles/reliability/)

You can argue all you like but this is factored in when people are looking at the "Value" proposition of a vehicle, reliabilty and reputation.

A top speced cruiser at 120k will be bought every day of the week over a well speced 110 at $130k. Why? Simply because Toyota has the reputation for reliabilty, that's why the LC is the number one selling large SUV in that segment in most markets except the middle East and USA where it is beaten by the y62/ Armada. That reputation is worth gold! Will your average mum and dad buy a $130k LR that has a reputation for breaking down and then take it out bush, tow? No! Why? Because every other car out bush is a Toyota, so they assume that's what they need to buy and since there's no value in the 130k defender they go straight to the LC. Again I'm not a Toyota fan, but the sales speak for themselves.

Also a little twin turbo 2ltr diesel ain't going to attract or win over any Toyota or Nissan fans. Again you'll argue this point but I'm just highlighting peoples perception and we all know what our mates think of LR!

And if you factor in resale,even though the other two may use slightly more fuel,you will definitely catch up with resale values.

I only have to look at what my MY12 D4 is worth,compared with a virtually stock LC,same K's,same vintage,same condition,the difference is more than what many think.

Some will argue that it(2020 Defender) will have better resale than other modern LR's have,but i doubt it,the more you spend,the more you have to lose.

[RobA]

I think some may be missing the key issue here. It's not about purchase price, well at least to me anyway. It's all about how much it costs to make an LC200 a D4 or now a Defender. My experience over 15 years and 10 Toyota 4WD is that cost is around $17,000 and probably more.

So when I look at that value equation even a HSE starts to look attractive

Quite frankly I have never worried about service coverage in the last 4.5 years despite taking our D4 to some pretty remote places with our AOR Q+ on the back and with an average duty cycle of 18,000km per year with most of that outback travel.

I have been a quiet and very patient and polite observer of these discussions since the get go and got a great deal of benefit from the D4 thread. Firstly in giving me the confidence to make the purchase and secondly to maintain it correctly for the way we use it. As well the balanced and professional discussion has been, in most part, exemplorary.

We will have our SE quoted in detail from the dealer tomorrow. I have the final quote from my long term, like 20 years of fleet purchasing Toyota dealer for an LC200. My assessment will be made on by using heart, head and cashflow. NOT residual as my personal 4WD are exactly that

I am tempted to wait until the 130 but am quite comfortable to move now as well. So I do appreciate there are widely varying views and expectations around new Defender. What I don't get or appreciate is the way some folk have pretty much attacked others views since the get go. Seems to me that tolerance of others needs and views has been lost to a degree, sadly.

So whilst I have been a happy participant in this forum for around five year now I have taken the decision not to renew my membership on renewal as I can no longer see the value it offered me so long ago

Rob

[1nando]

Rob[/QUOTE""]What I don't get or appreciate is the way some folk have pretty much attacked others views since the get go. Seems to me that tolerance of others needs and views has been lost to a degree, sadly.

So whilst I have been a happy participant in this forum for around five year now I have taken the decision not to renew my membership on renewal as I can no longer see the value it offered me so long ago""

Whilst I agree one must also appreciate that a forum is simply a place for discussing difference in opinion. It this opinion that makes it interesting, the reason we all come back to revisit threads and the ongoing discussion. This is great and there is an art to doing it tastefully. In saying that on the rare occasion some, maybe even myself need to be enlightened or further educated.
You yourself just said you got great info from the d4 forum, now your choosing to leave a community that's helped you. Best thing you can do is hang around and help educate those that don't have the same knowledge and pass on what you've learned. It's this cycle that keep forums healthy. Recycle your knowledge and everyone wins.
Anyway, your decision but if you dio decide not to renew it then all the best mate[emoji106]

[blackrangie]

Buyers base "value" on many different criteria. For example, cargo size, seating, tech gear, safety, etc then that value is cross checked against things like reliabilty, serviceability, warranty etc. "Value" is the overall package, at least to me. I'll give you an example: G professional. Here you have a HD vehcile similar to a defender only built tougher, with a great engine and trusted by our military yet it doesn't sell. Why? Because it's trying to crack a market dominated by Toyota and the price point is completely ridiculous. If the G was $80k they would sell many many more units. It would take sales away from Toyota 70 series, jeep rubicon, and probably a few others, but no one wants to pay $110k for it because it's hard to find the "Value" proposition.

LR has a terrible reliabilty reputation, as much as some on here might disagree with that fact it's actually true and LR has no one to blame but themselves! They are not on the 15 most reliable vehicle manufacturers list in Australia, in fact john cadogan showed a list where they were in the top 15 worst! New Car Reliability | 2019 Brand Ratings – Canstar Blue (https://www.canstarblue.com.au/vehicles/reliability/)

You can argue all you like but this is factored in when people are looking at the "Value" proposition of a vehicle, reliabilty and reputation.

A top speced cruiser at 120k will be bought every day of the week over a well speced 110 at $130k. Why? Simply because Toyota has the reputation for reliabilty, that's why the LC is the number one selling large SUV in that segment in most markets except the middle East and USA where it is beaten by the y62/ Armada. That reputation is worth gold! Will your average mum and dad buy a $130k LR that has a reputation for breaking down and then take it out bush, tow? No! Why? Because every other car out bush is a Toyota, so they assume that's what they need to buy and since there's no value in the 130k defender they go straight to the LC. Again I'm not a Toyota fan, but the sales speak for themselves.

Also a little twin turbo 2ltr diesel ain't going to attract or win over any Toyota or Nissan fans. Again you'll argue this point but I'm just highlighting peoples perception and we all know what our mates think of LR!

The reliability argument isn't a thing anymore ill explain why and it may surprise some that haven't seen this posted before.

Last time i checked JLR have improved reliability 180% over last 20years and most improved overall over last year in the states where limited toyota 4x4 models are sold(infact last time i checked the only similar toyota they sell is a petrol LC200).

The whole industry has improved to a point where there are only a few problems per year between the list after 3 years of ownership. Imo its almost like the top 20 airlines, they are not in any particular order as they are all considered as safe as each other. Landrover owners of 2016 vehicles are only reporting 2 problems and Toyota 1(it seems largely off the back of corolla and prius, camry, avalon, rav4 etc) over 12 months after 3 years of ownership.
It is reported also most issues being infotainment related, which admittedly in 2016 was not LRs strongpoint. Would love to see the reliability comparison based only on US LR 4x4s models and US Landcruiser models, but even then it wouldn't be fair due to the lack of diesels

In the UK Landrover reliability is pretty much on par with Toyota where petrol and diesel etc Toyota 4x4 models are sold in a very similar way to AU (fair comparison)
Landrover 2016 approx 1.42 problems over 12 months after 3 years and Toyota 1.34 (absolutely nothing between them in reliability)

In AU Toyota have been far from the pinnacle of reliability over the last few years, imo LR on the other hand has done really well the last few years avoiding any mass market issues.

I mention Toyota not to badmouth, rather becuase they are usually referred to as some holy grail of reliability and a benchmark. They are a great thing and if you own one great!

The quality and extensive testing so far I have seen in the new defender will imo keep this upwards reliabilty trend going, think IP67, strongest axles yet, D7x, 3x stronger frame, SOTA allowing issues to be nipped in the bud as soon as they are aware, shocks that adapt to heat to avoid failure.

Times have changed as anyone with a newish JLR vehicle will attest to, quality and reliability are as good as could be expected for the vehicle you actually get, which when you have a vehicle that can do much more than its competitors is much harder to achieve.

This all has taken me a very long time to get my head around over the last year but im glad i did, as LRs reliability is much better than many make out and for the last couple of decades has been getting better and better

Sources jdpower 2019 us/ukhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191016/4ce313ae2814a4d468cb7917441e3086.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191016/8ab263fed3f2dddf6a4f9ff083cc84fe.jpg

[1nando]

The reliability argument isn't a thing anymore ill explain why and it may surprise some that haven't seen this posted before.

Last time i checked JLR have improved reliability 180% over last 20years and most improved overall over last year in the states where limited toyota 4x4 models are sold(infact last time i checked the only similar toyota they sell is a petrol LC200).

The whole industry has improved to a point where there are only a few problems per year between the list after 3 years of ownership. Imo its almost like the top 20 airlines, they are not in any particular order as they are all considered as safe as each other. Landrover owners of 2016 vehicles are only reporting 2 problems and Toyota 1(it seems largely off the back of corolla and prius, camry, avalon, rav4 etc) over 12 months after 3 years of ownership.
It is reported also most issues being infotainment related, which admittedly in 2016 was not LRs strongpoint. Would love to see the reliability comparison based only on US LR 4x4s models and US Landcruiser models, but even then it wouldn't be fair due to the lack of diesels

In the UK Landrover reliability is pretty much on par with Toyota where petrol and diesel etc Toyota 4x4 models are sold in a very similar way to AU (fair comparison)
Landrover 2016 approx 1.42 problems over 12 months after 3 years and Toyota 1.34 (absolutely nothing between them in reliability)

In AU Toyota have been far from the pinnacle of reliability over the last few years, imo LR on the other hand has done really well the last few years avoiding any mass market issues.

I mention Toyota not to badmouth, rather becuase they are usually referred to as some holy grail of reliability and a benchmark. They are a great thing and if you own one great!

The quality and extensive testing so far I have seen in the new defender will imo keep this upwards reliabilty trend going, think IP67, strongest axles yet, D7x, 3x stronger frame, SOTA allowing issues to be nipped in the bud as soon as they are aware, shocks that adapt to heat to avoid failure.

Times have changed as anyone with a newish JLR vehicle will attest to, quality and reliability are as good as could be expected for the vehicle you actually get, which when you have a vehicle that can do much more than its competitors is much harder to achieve.

This all has taken me a very long time to get my head around over the last year but im glad i did, as LRs reliability is much better than many make out and for the last couple of decades has been getting better and better

Sources jdpower 2019 us/ukhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191016/4ce313ae2814a4d468cb7917441e3086.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191016/8ab263fed3f2dddf6a4f9ff083cc84fe.jpg"I mention Toyota not to badmouth, rather becuase they are usually referred to as some holy grail of reliability and a benchmark."

That's the point I'm making. I'm not a Toyota fan, but it's peoples perception that I'm talking about. People perceive Toyota to be the best and at a elevated price point people will invest their hard earned on the perception.

Ill give you another example. The y62 TiL is equivalent to a LC diesel 200 Sahara on specs, in fact you get more with the 62 and it's $30k cheaper. John cadogan recently in one of his infinity/ nissan rants mentioned that the y62 is an excellent vehicle (bullet proof were the words he used) and that it would take 600,000kms of driving before the 200 was a more cost effective option. So why does the 200 outsell the y62 10-1?

Well the answer is that people have a perception that 4wds have to be diesel to be any good. That diesels fuel economy will pay itself off; it will at a point but 600,000kms is a lot of driving and years of ownership.

That's not me talking crap, that's a fact! People believe a petrol simply can't do the job as well. Now I don't know about you but I sell my cars at the end of every lease, somewhere around 120-150,000kms..........The y62 represents the better value...... yet the sheep still buy the cruiser.

World wide people believe in the Toyota badge, the legacy of reliable motoring, pricing a vehicle on par or above it in a very similar segment is ridiculous in my view and a recipe for poor sales.

I admire your passion for this new defender, I share it with you; just not at $130k + for a reasonably speced 110. Yeah I could get a cheaper utilitarian one and the Mrs would divorce me...... she loves putting her feet up on the dash in the 62 on long trips and enjoying the comforts. A cheaper 110 with less niceties would be a step backwards in her eyes. Plus the kids would be like : "you paid $30k more for this new defender and it has half the space of the patrol?". I could justify the purchase at $100k, I can't over that I'm sorry.

[veebs]

Leasing the new Defender “X” will only cost me $200 a fortnight more than the D4 did.

You need to update your signature Tombie ;)

[roverrescue]

BR
Lots of words and then you supply two graphs that clearly show Landrover are classified as below average (well below) on dependability.
Words are cheap
A three year warranty and in 2019 still below average reliability is a huge negative “value” point


This thing will be more expensive
Have less load space with a smaller engine
And then it is Less reliable and shorter warranty than
It’s competitors

It’s not possible to spin it any other way?

They took the heritage of a defender and sold it for a cup of Luxo SUV soup which won’t even sell that well!!!

Cest la vie - the Aus market is largely irrelevant to JLR so they will care even less than full size 4x4 wagon drivers do!

S

[SpudHeadTed]

...what most are forgetting here is that Land Rover is perceived as a luxury elitist brand. That’s what they have fostered. The majority of Australians do not perceive themselves as elitist. Despite price similarities, histories of reliability, service networks, warranties, whatever...most Australians want a vehicle that makes them feel comfortable in their social sphere, with they’re mates.

...some of my friends think my Defender is elitist! Because it’s ‘different’. Despite it costing 2/3 of their Toyota’s! It’s just perception.

Defenders are unique. ...It’s actually part of what makes owning a Defender enjoyable, quite apart from Defenders simply being better. ...and really that’s just for those of us in the know. Who cares if the sheep ‘think’ theirs are better? 200 series / Y62’s are too big, fat and ugly. 70 series too outmoded. All too thirsty. ...but each too their own.

I’m here because I think Defenders are the best. It’s why I own one. Simple. [bigwhistle]

[SBD4]

OK mod hat on now.

We are done with this conversation now.

Discussing other brands (and the old Defender) in the context of the New Defender has been done to death over the last 18 months. You've all said your piece numerous times.

Please bring it back on topic.

[1nando]

...what most are forgetting here is that Land Rover is perceived as a luxury elitist brand. That’s what they have fostered. The majority of Australians do not perceive themselves as elitist. Despite price similarities, histories of reliability, service networks, warranties, whatever...most Australians want a vehicle that makes them feel comfortable in their social sphere, with they’re mates.

...some of my friends think my Defender is elitist! Because it’s ‘different’. Despite it costing 2/3 of their Toyota’s! It’s just perception.

Defenders are unique. ...It’s actually part of what makes owning a Defender enjoyable, quite apart from Defenders simply being better. ...and really that’s just for those of us in the know. Who cares if the sheep ‘think’ theirs are better? 200 series / Y62’s are too big, fat and ugly. 70 series too outmoded. All too thirsty. ...but each too their own.

I’m here because I think Defenders are the best. It’s why I own one. Simple. [bigwhistle]I had what was probably one of the toughest 110s on this forum. Fully loaded with Ashcroft running gear, e lockers front and rear, remap, you name it and it had it. Tears came to my eyes the day I sold it. Best off road vehcile I every owned, was unique as you mentioned and was a pleasure to drive.
Compared to my 62 unfortunately it was not great on the road, did not provide enough safety for my young family and could not fit 2 rear facing seats comfortably in the back seat.
Yet I miss that car everyday..
Your defender is unique, that's what is special about it! Enjoy your defender because there will never be another like it made but don't discount other vehicles that can do many more things better than your defender[emoji6]

[Tins]

OK mod hat on now.

We are done with this conversation now.

Discussing other brands (and the old Defender) in the context of the New Defender has been done to death over the last 18 months. You've all said your piece numerous times.

Please bring it back on topic.

Huh?? What brought that on?? The new Defender is probably the most anticipated and discussed topic since the Old Defender was slated to be discontinued. What in this thread offended you? Why is talking about stuff for 18 months 'off topic'?

People here are still talking about design features of the 1948 S1. Has that been done to death? Some clarification please. Or some Mod pool talking.

[1nando]

OK mod hat on now.

We are done with this conversation now.

Discussing other brands (and the old Defender) in the context of the New Defender has been done to death over the last 18 months. You've all said your piece numerous times.

Please bring it back on topic.I've brought up other brands to highlight peoples perception and how that may affect sales as a result of price point. At the end of the day this new defender is in a segment that has to compete with other brands so I'm not sure how it isn't relevant to the topic we were discussing (civilly may I add)

[ChookD2]

I think it will be interesting to see where the 90 will slot in this price curve. If the base 90 doesn't come in at or below about $50k here, then I think LR may have shot itself in the foot in Australia.

This 90 has a longer wheelbase than a D2 but only 2 doors. However, with it's nicely tucked tush it will in no way have the rear cargo capacity of a D2. Having said that I think it may sell better than the 110 to a younger demographic, and maybe to old farts like me now there is just the 2 of us.

I'm still waiting for ANY sort of independant review. Not just jounalists paraded around the same two vehicles in the same forest setting, probaly on the same day. Someone must have had their hands on one by now, surely.

[scarry]

I am wondering where the 130 wagon lands in the pricing,i suppose it will be up in RR territory[bigsad][biggrin]

[blackrangie]

OK mod hat on now.

We are done with this conversation now.

Discussing other brands (and the old Defender) in the context of the New Defender has been done to death over the last 18 months. You've all said your piece numerous times.

Please bring it back on topic.Agreed, however it seems some were not following the other threads..if i could find the posts I would have linked them [emoji1787].

[blackrangie]

I think it will be interesting to see where the 90 will slot in this price curve. If the base 90 doesn't come in at or below about $50k here, then I think LR may have shot itself in the foot in Australia.

This 90 has a longer wheelbase than a D2 but only 2 doors. However, with it's nicely tucked tush it will in no way have the rear cargo capacity of a D2. Having said that I think it may sell better than the 110 to a younger demographic, and maybe to old farts like me now there is just the 2 of us.

I'm still waiting for ANY sort of independant review. Not just jounalists paraded around the same two vehicles in the same forest setting, probaly on the same day. Someone must have had their hands on one by now, surely.90 is tipped to be base 60k so probs 59.9k at a guess.

Commercial if we get it will be lower again and maybe around the 50-55k mark for 90

[blackrangie]

I am wondering where the 130 wagon lands in the pricing,i suppose it will be up in RR territory[bigsad][biggrin]I would imagine similar to D5 pricing

[blackrangie]

Some more Slovakia production shots.
That thermo fan is maaaasive!
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191016/444a9619f6dc53422688de599c988cc2.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191016/002da73cfbeb41c7cef036820602fe4a.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191016/41546d222a5186eb6f885e967e854032.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191016/957659c9e0e610a0adf7bfceba1eb2ff.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191016/d114e1b15786e53e653aa89cafed5cee.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191016/f90adda912475f838688cf997aca85d1.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191016/9f278ab8204b34788d37d8fed8314168.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191016/3588f115edfae66a56ad0282a6bf862b.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191016/cbff5145adf967ad4c8a9ec248109fa9.jpg

[Tins]

Agreed, however it seems some were not following the other threads..if i could find the posts I would have linked them [emoji1787].

I'm interested in what you are agreeing with here. What, in your opinion, has been OT?

[blackrangie]

I'm interested in what you are agreeing with here. What, in your opinion, has been OT?Happy with mods call, it has been done to death for those following for the last year on here. All good.

[1nando]

Happy with mods call, it has been done to death for those following for the last year on here. All good.Pricing only became apparent yesterday... how has it been done to death? That's what we were discussing.

Forums are places for discussion, without discussion there is no point in being a member.

Am I missing something?

[SBD4]

Huh?? What brought that on?? The new Defender is probably the most anticipated and discussed topic since the Old Defender was slated to be discontinued. What in this thread offended you? Why is talking about stuff for 18 months 'off topic'?

People here are still talking about design features of the 1948 S1. Has that been done to death? Some clarification please. Or some Mod pool talking.

John, you obviously have not followed the discussions from the very beginning. This has been discussed many times often resulting people being awarded points due to a rapid escalation of peoples emotions. It's also resulted in threads and entire the entire L660/L663 subforum being locked. It has cause the mod team quite a bit of angst in the past which we are determined to avoid in the future. I hope you can appreciate that there is often more to these circumstances than what may be apparent to you.


I've brought up other brands to highlight peoples perception and how that may affect sales as a result of price point. At the end of the day this new defender is in a segment that has to compete with other brands so I'm not sure how it isn't relevant to the topic we were discussing (civilly may I add)

Nando, it's all good. Everyone has absolutely been civil. Just wanting to bring back on track as per response to John.

[Tins]

Happy with mods call, it has been done to death for those following for the last year on here. All good.

Fine. Do you consider, say, the D2 thread "done to death"?

I'm not going at you, but just what is "done to death". There are entire threads and forums on here that relate to cars made before I was born. All I ask for is consistency. If the New Defender thread is done to death, then surely the SLOW thread needs to be closed, amongst very many others.

I feel an overreaction here. I'd like a mod to tell me I'm wrong.

[blackrangie]

Pricing only became apparent yesterday... how has it been done to death? That's what we were discussing.

Forums are places for discussion, without discussion there is no point in being a member.

Am I missing something?Just the whole toyota is better, landrover is unreliable thing, no its not etc etc..its been done..pricing is not the issue [emoji1417].

Anyways lets move on

[1nando]

Just the whole toyota is better, landrover is unreliable thing, no its not etc etc..its been done..pricing is not the issue [emoji1417].

Anyways lets move onMate for the record I don't much appreciate many Toyota owners as many have 2 heads, much like some nissan owners. In saying that people can choose to be blind or stupid but the reality is that Toyota has a reputation that ALL manufacturers wish they had. That's a factual point not my opinion, it doesn't mean I'm bagging LR!

[SBD4]

Just the whole toyota is better, landrover is unreliable thing, no its not etc etc..its been done..pricing is not the issue [emoji1417].

Anyways lets move on

Correct! You have it.

[SBD4]

Mate for the record I don't much appreciate many Toyota owners as many have 2 heads, much like some nissan owners. In saying that people can choose to be blind or stupid but the reality is that Toyota has a reputation that ALL manufacturers wish they had. That's a factual point not my opinion, it doesn't mean I'm bagging LR!
For the record, I agree with much of what you said. It was not directed at any one in particular.

[blackrangie]

Image Packs | Land Rover Homepage USA (https://media.landrover.com/en-us/image-packs?page=1)

Incredible amount of image packs here, best on desktop or on phone if you have an unzipper app.

Filter by new defender

My pick is the what will be avail to upgrade the extras packs much of which is no where to be seen on the AU website yet.

[Tins]

John, you obviously have not followed the discussions from the very beginning. This has been discussed many times often resulting people being awarded points due to a rapid escalation of peoples emotions. It's also resulted in threads and entire the entire L660/L663 subforum being locked. It has cause the mod team quite a bit of angst in the past which we are determined to avoid in the future. I hope you can appreciate that there is often more to these circumstances than what may be apparent to you.





Nonsense. I have followed, with great interest, this thread from its inception. If it was, as you say, flawed earlier on, then why kill it now, rather than then?

I grasp that emotions can cause Mod involvement ( I have a history, as you no doubt know ). but this thread was going fine until you swooped in. If there was a problem in the past, maybe you should have intervened then????

I have had conversation with Mods re things we, as ordinary members who pay for access, are not privy to. Maybe it's time for the umpires to start conversing with the players as to the rules they are enforcing. Keeping us in the dark just ****es us off. But, you know that, right?

[SPROVER]

Mate for the record I don't much appreciate many Toyota owners as many have 2 heads, much like some nissan owners. In saying that people can choose to be blind or stupid but the reality is that Toyota has a reputation that ALL manufacturers wish they had. That's a factual point not my opinion, it doesn't mean I'm bagging LR!From my point of view you weren't bagging landrover just pointing out what the majority of people think about Toyota and landrover in general. And then BR provided us with a table of facts on how bad Landrover still are when it comes to other manufacturers [emoji16]

[1nando]

Correct! You have it.I never said Toyota was better! I said they have a perceived reputation for reliabilty that only they have!

And if you can't truthfully admit that LR has struggled with their perception of reliabilty then I will stop paying for my subscription and leave the forum! I can think of better ways to spend $100!

I'm pi$$ed off now cause this is ridiculous!

[16PMark]

Some more Slovakia production shots.
That thermo fan is maaaasive!
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191016/444a9619f6dc53422688de599c988cc2.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191016/002da73cfbeb41c7cef036820602fe4a.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191016/41546d222a5186eb6f885e967e854032.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191016/957659c9e0e610a0adf7bfceba1eb2ff.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191016/d114e1b15786e53e653aa89cafed5cee.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191016/f90adda912475f838688cf997aca85d1.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191016/9f278ab8204b34788d37d8fed8314168.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191016/3588f115edfae66a56ad0282a6bf862b.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191016/cbff5145adf967ad4c8a9ec248109fa9.jpgLuvs me a big organised garage. [emoji6][emoji41]
Good stuff!

[scarry]

I would imagine similar to D5 pricing

Go for the petrol 110,and tick a couple of boxes,and you are well and truely in D5 territory.

That thermo fan reminds me of the one in the VN/VP dunny dore,it was huge as well.

Looking at all these 110 pics,which are great,it sort of looks smallish.Maybe i am completely wrong,i know we can look at specs,but it seems sort of smallish.No one on here has actually seen one in the flesh,so it will be really interesting when someone does.

As for brand bashing,i was thinking everyone has lately been very civil,and respectful, about each others comments and thoughts,which is good to see.Some are just pointing out facts.

All discussion somewhere near on topic is healthy for everyone.

[SBD4]

I never said Toyota was better! I said they have a perceived reputation for reliabilty that only they have!

And if you can't truthfully admit that LR has struggled with their perception of reliabilty then I will stop paying for my subscription and leave the forum! I can think of better ways to spend $100!

I'm pi$$ed off now cause this is ridiculous!

I understand where you're coming from but I am not suggesting you did. As I said earlier I actually agree with what you were saying in that post and have no issue with how you said it.

I simply made a request to bring the discussion back to the new defender and leave the other brands out of it and that was to everyone.

Looking back I think I could have worded it better and I apologise to everyone for the upset caused.

All, It seems the consensus is that the intervention was premature so, On that basis lets keep it running but please don't let the discussion revert to an endless loop of brand bashing that has caused issues in the past(Note: not saying that has happened here).

[SBD4]

Nonsense. I have followed, with great interest, this thread from its inception. If it was, as you say, flawed earlier on, then why kill it now, rather than then?

I grasp that emotions can cause Mod involvement ( I have a history, as you no doubt know ). but this thread was going fine until you swooped in. If there was a problem in the past, maybe you should have intervened then????

I have had conversation with Mods re things we, as ordinary members who pay for access, are not privy to. Maybe it's time for the umpires to start conversing with the players as to the rules they are enforcing. Keeping us in the dark just ****es us off. But, you know that, right?

We've already talked via PM but thought I should respond to this too out of courtesy so people don't think I'm leaving you hanging..

...In this instance it was not a matter of applying a rule. It was about assessing the potential for a problem to arise based on what has happened previously and wanting to avoid it happening again.

I think I've been open about it, no secret rule and happy to cop it sweet for getting it wrong....i.e. going too early.

Right, moving right along now, about that Defender.....[tonguewink]

[Tins]

We've already talked via PM but thought I should respond to this too out of courtesy so people don't think I'm leaving you hanging..

...In this instance it was not a matter of applying a rule. It was about assessing the potential for a problem to arise based on what has happened previously and wanting to avoid it happening again.

I think I've been open about it, no secret rule and happy to cop it sweet for getting it wrong....i.e. going too early.

Right, moving right along now, about that Defender.....[tonguewink]

So, can we take that hat off for a bit longer? You know, let it go for a bit, pop in when you think it's OTT? Works for me.

[SpudHeadTed]

Passion for the brand / model only exists in comparison to other brands / models.

Without good natured discussion / debate about merits for and against, pros and cons in relation to other vehicles, half of this forum wouldn’t exist.

The more perspectives on the new Defender the better IMO. It’s been a long time coming!

Is it any good? Well that’s in the eye of the beholder, but debating whether it’s any good in comparison with other brands /vehicles is how we all make up our minds.

For the record, I reckon it looks pretty darn good and better than any other 4x4 wagon on the market in the $70-$100k segment. But that’s debatable (in a good way!).

Is it better than the outgoing Defender? Well that’s debatable too (in a good way!).

Cheers all, enjoying the discussion and the passion in all directions.

[SpudHeadTed]

Thanks for posting the production pics blackrangie.

It looks even more like a proper Defender as just the skin!

155002

Interesting to see it above the D5 skin on the rack too...same size, different function? Hmm me thinks the D5’s run is about to come to a sad end. Surely Defender is the new D4 / new Defender rolled into one.

[loanrangie]

If you look on the roads the biggest market for the lc200 Y62 are grey nomads , bloke st work just bought an LC then spent a small fortune on a gvm upgrade so he can tow his block of flats in retirement.

[SpudHeadTed]

If you look on the roads the biggest market for the lc200 Y62 are grey nomads , bloke st work just bought an LC then spent a small fortune on a gvm upgrade so he can tow his block of flats in retirement.

The new Defender with its towing capacity ...ooh and the hybrid, would eat them for breakfast...grey nomads love saving fuel.

[roverrescue]

Apology accepted Sean
I can only assume your frustrated shut down was some impression that I was off-track.

Ask anyone close to me- my blood runs green but that does not give LR a free pass.
I desperately wanted the New Defender to save the company like the Discovery1 did.

Leverage the engineering and smarts of top spec - special vehicles that most people can’t afford and release something slightly lower spec but still amazing compared to the market.

By releasing just another Luxo SUV LR have shot themselves into oblivion. And that makes me sad.

Just think back to 1989. If the D1 was priced at just below Range Rover Prices
Would JLR exist today?
Now fast forward 20 years

Of course I knew the defender of old was not going to be reproduced BUT I did hope for the release of a utilitarian work vehicle that was priced well below the luxo offerings of JLR to maintain the company into the future.

I’m supremely disappointed they have not released a Ute which to the majority of fanbois who are replacing their D3/4 is not a problem BUT what about those that still want a LR but now have a choice of 13 different luxury wagons.

This is not about the price of the thing
As Nandi said it is about the value of it.

Anyway, I’ll tap out now I’m getting frustrated at a company that doesn’t care about my custom
To a bunch of people who think I’m bonkers

I’ll eagerly await the 14 page thread discussing the best paint care regime for the new defender.

Steve

[blackrangie]

From my point of view you weren't bagging landrover just pointing out what the majority of people think about Toyota and landrover in general. And then BR provided us with a table of facts on how bad Landrover still are when it comes to other manufacturers [emoji16]

Although your probably taking the mickey, its an Interesting interpretation of the facts provided and actually the facts show quite the opposite, happy to be shown factually how I'm wrong in response to my post. [emoji6]

Ill put it simply for you, the UK is a similar selling market to ours as far as Land Rover and other major 4x4 sellers for example (Yota), the facts show there is about as much difference as identical twins between the two as far as dependability goes, which is incredible considering LR is pretty much 4x4 only, making reliability much harder to achieve then companies that mostly make 2wd.

That's me on the subject here ive posted the original post up in general to respect mods wishes to keep on subject and for a reference point as it does annoy me some people think we are living in P38 groundhog days.[emoji6]

[Rob66]

Go for the petrol 110,and tick a couple of boxes,and you are well and truely in D5 territory.

That thermo fan reminds me of the one in the VN/VP dunny dore,it was huge as well.

Looking at all these 110 pics,which are great,it sort of looks smallish.Maybe i am completely wrong,i know we can look at specs,but it seems sort of smallish.No one on here has actually seen one in the flesh,so it will be really interesting when someone does.

As for brand bashing,i was thinking everyone has lately been very civil,and respectful, about each others comments and thoughts,which is good to see.Some are just pointing out facts.

All discussion somewhere near on topic is healthy for everyone.
..
I've seen one in the flesh .. went to Frankfurt for the motor show..
155003155004
.. it is a decent sized car .. every bit as big in the "flesh" as you'd want it to be. Up close it has a real presence. I love it

[4bee]

JEEZUZ Robbo,

You must have really bounced off someone's Trabant to finish up in someone's front garden like that.[biggrin][biggrin]

[460cixy]

Apology accepted Sean
I can only assume your frustrated shut down was some impression that I was off-track.

Ask anyone close to me- my blood runs green but that does not give LR a free pass.
I desperately wanted the New Defender to save the company like the Discovery1 did.

Leverage the engineering and smarts of top spec - special vehicles that most people can’t afford and release something slightly lower spec but still amazing compared to the market.

By releasing just another Luxo SUV LR have shot themselves into oblivion. And that makes me sad.

Just think back to 1989. If the D1 was priced at just below Range Rover Prices
Would JLR exist today?
Now fast forward 20 years

Of course I knew the defender of old was not going to be reproduced BUT I did hope for the release of a utilitarian work vehicle that was priced well below the luxo offerings of JLR to maintain the company into the future.

I’m supremely disappointed they have not released a Ute which to the majority of fanbois who are replacing their D3/4 is not a problem BUT what about those that still want a LR but now have a choice of 13 different luxury wagons.

This is not about the price of the thing
As Nandi said it is about the value of it.

Anyway, I’ll tap out now I’m getting frustrated at a company that doesn’t care about my custom
To a bunch of people who think I’m bonkers

I’ll eagerly await the 14 page thread discussing the best paint care regime for the new defender.

Steve

Absolutely spot on bloke it's straight up disappointing the ute market is massive and every manufacture is trying to get a slice of the pie and so many of them are ordanry off road and on it I think they really could have done well in this market

[DiscoDB]

Top 3 selling cars in the US, Australia, and South Africa are all Utes. In Asia, dual cab Utes are #1 and 2, and in South America a dual cab Ute is the 3rd top selling car. Europe seems to be the exception to the rule.

Whilst JRL has left this market to focus on the growing SUV market, I would imagine Tata must have other ideas.

The new Defender is spot on for its intended market. Just left a big hole waiting to be filled.

[blackrangie]

..
I've seen one in the flesh .. went to Frankfurt for the motor show..
155003155004
.. it is a decent sized car .. every bit as big in the "flesh" as you'd want it to be. Up close it has a real presence. I love itAwesome Rob, love to get more detail on what you saw and more pics if you have.
Would have been a fantastic experience frankfurt.

[manic]

The new Defender is spot on for its intended market. Just left a big hole waiting to be filled.

Agree, pulling production of the defender has left a hole. A replacement has not been provided.

The D5 and P110 side by side look like his and her options. Both around the same price . One looks tougher than the other, but what can one do that the other can't? Even the D5 has a commercial spec .

At this point it seems to me that they have offered the D4 market two new options and completely abandoned the Defender/ute market.

The P90 and P130 are interesting variants. If they can price the 90 low enough for the childless and add some kind of Ute chop up on the 130 - they could carve out some new sales there.

Here is an idea for blazing into a new market: Full EV P90, commercial spec, that can hold 400km of range even when towing 2 ton around the local service area. Could be a nimble little tradie vehicle! Although getting the price down would be key to success.

Looking forward to see where they take the new variants. Hopefully the 130 doesn't present like a range rover LSE - simply stretched for more leg room!

[Rob66]

Awesome Rob, love to get more detail on what you saw and more pics if you have.
Would have been a fantastic experience frankfurt.

Happy to put up some pix .. 2 questions:
1, can I upload more than one at a time?
2, mine seem to be thumbnail sized - how do you load full size?

[DiscoDB]

Looking forward to see where they take the new variants. Hopefully the 130 doesn't present like a range rover LSE - simply stretched for more leg room!

The 130 is said to have the same wheelbase as the 110 but it is just the rear section from behind the C pillar and 2nd row of seats extended by 342mm and seating for 8 and will be an upspec premium vehicle.

I assume this is when they will also introduce the D300 option for hopefully both the 110 and 130.

What will be interesting is to see if the D300 is the current 3L twin-turbo diesel V6 or if they will extend the Ingenium range to include a 3L inline 6 cyl twin-turbo diesel. To be truly modular and simplifying parts across the defender range it should be the latter.

[SpudHeadTed]

This is the key point and core to many Defender fans frustrations:

“I’m supremely disappointed they have not released a Ute which to the majority of fanbois who are replacing their D3/4 is not a problem BUT what about those that still want a LR but now have a choice of 13 different luxury wagons.”

I agree. Defender used to primarily be a work vehicle. Now it looks to primarily be an upmarket adventure vehicle, like all other Land Rover models.

It is very disappointing there is no obvious commercial variant, although they say one is coming, it’s still a wagon only ...and not a ute as yet and not a 130 either.

In reality Land Rover abandoned the commercial vehicle sector a long time ago, with no real design changes to Defender for so long. No airbags made the Defender non compliant for work sites for years anyway.

A new Defender ute could have done better than the VW Amarok (which is currently the best new ute on the market IMO).

oh well, them’s the yuppie Pom Mayfair high street designers priorities.

Who knows the new Defender might turn out to be tough as old boots after all. And a ute might be yet be on its way...

[blackrangie]

Happy to put up some pix .. 2 questions:
1, can I upload more than one at a time?
2, mine seem to be thumbnail sized - how do you load full size?Use tapatalk, 9 at a time

[ozscott]

This is the key point and core to many Defender fans frustrations:

“I’m supremely disappointed they have not released a Ute which to the majority of fanbois who are replacing their D3/4 is not a problem BUT what about those that still want a LR but now have a choice of 13 different luxury wagons.”

I agree. Defender used to primarily be a work vehicle. Now it looks to primarily be an upmarket adventure vehicle, like all other Land Rover models.

It is very disappointing there is no obvious commercial variant, although they say one is coming, it’s still a wagon only ...and not a ute as yet and not a 130 either.

In reality Land Rover abandoned the commercial vehicle sector a long time ago, with no real design changes to Defender for so long. No airbags made the Defender non compliant for work sites for years anyway.

A new Defender ute could have done better than the VW Amarok (which is currently the best new ute on the market IMO).

oh well, them’s the yuppie Pom Mayfair high street designers priorities.

Who knows the new Defender might turn out to be tough as old boots after all. And a ute might be yet be on its way...


That's a subjective statement about the V Dub but otherwise I agree they have missed an opportunity with the Ute. I am really enjoying having a utility again. There are many things you just can beat them for including huge space. The ute market here and the US just keeps getting bigger. If LR did a ute and the new Defender improved on the reputation has for lack of reliability (and the reputation amongst the masses is not good) then it could do very well. I would like to see that. Given the size of the 110 it looks like only the 130 ute in dual cab would have any real tray. Cheers

Cheers

[RobA]

The 130 is said to have the same wheelbase as the 110 but it is just the rear section from behind the C pillar and 2nd row of seats extended by 342mm and seating for 8 and will be an upspec premium vehicle.

I assume this is when they will also introduce the D300 option for hopefully both the 110 and 130.

What will be interesting is to see if the D300 is the current 3L twin-turbo diesel V6 or if they will extend the Ingenium range to include a 3L inline 6 cyl twin-turbo diesel. To be truly modular and simplifying parts across the defender range it should be the latter.

I think from all the pre-release information it is clear the V6 diesel will be replaced by the ingenium in line 6 diesel. It is happening now with D5 orders for 2020 with buyers being told they may have their order filled with either depending on production

Rob

[DiscoMick]

Yesterday, while camped north of Cooktown, some people from Melbourne asked for permission to photograph our 110 because "it's a real 4WD" and "they don't make them any more." Will anyone say that about the new Defender?
Actually it's behaving like a real Land Rover at the moment with an oil leak from the gasket on the vacuum pump, but I didn't tell them that. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191017/6404f70bf88a22025fde4ebaa3aa7bb7.jpg

[SpudHeadTed]

That's a subjective statement about the V Dub

Cheers

Correct. Your views are subjective too. Its all subjective, that’s the whole point of a discussion. If everyone had the same point of view there would be no discussion. [thumbsupbig]
Cheers

[ozscott]

Correct. Your views are subjective too. Its all subjective, that’s the whole point of a discussion. If everyone had the same point of view there would be no discussion. [thumbsupbig]
CheersAgreed.

Cheers

[16PMark]

What were the people from Melbourne driving?

[jon3950]

I totally understand the disappointment in the lack of a ute option and am also a little sad that the Defender is no longer a work vehicle.

Realistically though, how could a small volume manufacturer like JLR build enough vehicles to make the commercial market profitable? Gearing up production to the extent required (probably 10 times what they build now) on the back of a single model would be a recipe for disaster. Even if it weren’t, where would they get the capital required for such a rapid expansion?

[1nando]

I totally understand the disappointment in the lack of a ute option and am also a little sad that the Defender is no longer a work vehicle.

Realistically though, how could a small volume manufacturer like JLR build enough vehicles to make the commercial market profitable? Gearing up production to the extent required (probably 10 times what they build now) on the back of a single model would be a recipe for disaster. Even if it weren’t, where would they get the capital required for such a rapid expansion?"Realistically though, how could a small volume manufacturer like JLR build enough vehicles to make the commercial market profitable?"

I think they could do it. The problem I now keep coming back to is the price.
Even this morning the new defender was posted on the y62 forum. It got a lot of positive feedback (with the obvious moron commenting also) until someone mentioned it would be over $120k for a reasonably kitted 110 then it was instantly discarded by most at that price point. This vehcile needed to be delivered under $100k with reasonable kit standard. This is the very point I've been banging on about, the vehcile looks great and ticks lots of boxes but the price is going to let it down.
The other major concern is the warranty. Everyone is offering 5-7 year warranties these days, LR calls this "The toughest vehicle they've ever made" yet can't provide a standard 5 year warranty. All this is going to do is fuel the negative perception of LR amongst the haters.

[scarry]

Yesterday, while camped north of Cooktown, some people from Melbourne asked for permission to photograph our 110 because "it's a real 4WD" and "they don't make them any more." Will anyone say that about the new Defender?
Actually it's behaving like a real Land Rover at the moment with an oil leak from the gasket on the vacuum pump, but I didn't tell them that.

Just for interest,when the next lot turn up,ask them how old they think it is.
Many would come up to the one in my sig,and say they thought it was at least 30yrs old[biggrin][biggrin]

[irondoc]

I just can't see many people buying the Disco 5 once the Defender comes out. If you go to a showroom and see both and the pricing is similar, the only reason I can see someone going for a D5 is the bigger boot and bigger/better 6th and 7th seats. On paper it seems superior in every way except for size.

[460cixy]

Just for interest,when the next lot turn up,ask them how old they think it is.
Many would come up to the one in my sig,and say they thought it was at least 30yrs old[biggrin][biggrin]

That's the best part in less you know the product they can't tell if it's 30 years old or 3 years old

[DiscoDB]

I just can't see many people buying the Disco 5 once the Defender comes out. If you go to a showroom and see both and the pricing is similar, the only reason I can see someone going for a D5 is the bigger boot and bigger/better 6th and 7th seats. On paper it seems superior in every way except for size.

This will be interesting to watch sales numbers. I know there are people who didn’t like the D3/4 as it was seen as being too boxy and masculine and wanted something more rounded and more conservative in styling. This is the market the D5 has entered - a good replacement for the family bus - people who like the Ford Territory would love the D5.

The new defender is now filling the gap the D5 created.

I do like the new defender and can see myself getting one in the future. But...I do hate what they have done to the brand identity as it is infuriating their core supporters who have been with LR for decades and could respect what the Defender and Discovery was all about.

The new defender should have been called a Discovery - which is all about adventure and exploring. They are marketing the defender now like they did when the Discovery was first launched.

The new Discovery should have been called something else to reflect it is a real nice conservative SUV now. It is a bigger and better Freelander.

And Tata and JRL should have collaborated to come up with a proper mass produced military/rural/mining based single and dual cab Ute series called the Defender running LR tech on a traditional chassis/fixed axel configuration.

Then everyone would be happy and all market spaces filled to allow JRL to grow and increase market share.

[blackrangie]

This will be interesting to watch sales numbers. I know there are people who didn’t like the D3/4 as it was seen as being too boxy and masculine and wanted something more rounded and more conservative in styling. This is the market the D5 has entered - a good replacement for the family bus - people who like the Ford Territory would love the D5.

The new defender is now filling the gap the D5 created.

I do like the new defender and can see myself getting one in the future. But...I do hate what they have done to the brand identity as it is infuriating their core supporters who have been with LR for decades and could respect what the Defender and Discovery was all about.

The new defender should have been called a Discovery - which is all about adventure and exploring. They are marketing the defender now like they did when the Discovery was first launched.

The new Discovery should have been called something else to reflect it is a real nice conservative SUV now. It is a bigger and better Freelander.

And Tata and JRL should have collaborated to come up with a proper mass produced military/rural/mining based single and dual cab Ute series called the Defender running LR tech on a traditional chassis/fixed axel configuration.

Then everyone would be happy and all market spaces filled to allow JRL to grow and increase market share.Last defender sold 5k to public 15k to fleet, it needed to change, it was profitable but wasn't selling.

That's from on record comments from JLR not opinion.

Then take into account safety, shape had to become more rounded.

Efficiency, shape needed rounding.

Modern, rounder.

At the same time they kept many iconic features and made interior/exterior/components/wiring more utilitarian than many expected.

Features, they added pretty much everything that high end Landrover builders add and more and sell for 200k + in the states and uk, comfort, safety, power, auto, air, fix inherent issues.

Imo they nailed it, sales will be pretty high maybe up to 200k per year after the 90 joins. These pics explain why they nailed it better than i could.

Im of to the dealer today to finalize order, fun funhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191017/68d07504f0ee9923e2edb796ba3d1e95.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191017/8e878f610e1a4c4fbb69745c6752549b.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191017/1201e1eb9ab090b9b034ebc08bd61289.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191017/9beb610d200e1100c1e38ef3040e251b.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191017/2a3c9165d3407679f1c90fb7ba13c016.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191017/14616ac0e79c8f95d37bcb42d469ca9b.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191017/7b48f0a158fc1e3a4af0b54ba250fcd5.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191017/6913974053f54451392119e1dd76839b.jpg

[rar110]

I’m guessing JLR expect strong demand for the 110 & 90, more than they could produce risking some delay and possibly dissatisfied customers. Adding a Ute line up would exacerbate the problem. So delaying a Ute version makes sense to me.

[Rob66]

Hold the phone .. Blackie .. you're ordering yours now??

[blackrangie]

Hold the phone .. Blackie .. you're ordering yours now??I had a deposit for ages.

Dealer said come in today, not 100% if order will go through today, they might not have pricing loaded up fully yet on dealer end.

How bout you?

[ozscott]

BR you are fully invested. It's an exciting time buying a new 4wd. Enjoy the purchase and start planning the build. You have been stalwart of the brand on here and have been excited about the Defender like no other poster I have seen. So enjoy it and post up a build thread. Keen to see where it will go and what it will scramble over.

Cheers!

[Rob66]

I had a deposit for ages.

Dealer said come in today, not 100% if order will go through today, they might not have pricing loaded up fully yet on dealer end.

How bout you?

I put a deposit 4-5 months ago, but no word from the dealer yet. (Brisbane City LR) Last time I called him he said there was no pricing available.

[scarry]

I had a deposit for ages.

Dealer said come in today, not 100% if order will go through today, they might not have pricing loaded up fully yet on dealer end.

How bout you?

Exciting times!

I bet you have had a few sleepless nights trying to work out what exactly to order.

i have looked through it all and didnt know where to start[bighmmm]

Well, not quite right,i think the SE is the go to start with,but i would like to look at the 130 wagon as well,which they are saying isn't that far away,maybe 6 months.

We are going to wait until it arrives,then have a look,and decide what to do.

[Geedublya]

From what I saw when I ran through the build you can option a base model with pretty much everything except the 6 cylinder petrol.

I was keen on the petrol but now I think the D240 would be adequate and much better value.

https://build.landrover/C4C4DA37#.XajrsOCyv4U.gmail

[blackrangie]

I put a deposit 4-5 months ago, but no word from the dealer yet. (Brisbane City LR) Last time I called him he said there was no pricing available.Sounds about the same situation to me, Ill pm you, there was RRP pricing emailed to me posted on this thread by a syd dealer, not sure if he was supposed to, also not sure if all the mags used that or had their own sources for the release of prices new over last few days.

Just had one say they can enter prices manually.

[manic]

I would have to see it in the flesh and get a test drive b4 spending new car money. But it would be exciting to sign on early!

Whoever it is on here that gets one in first will be doing the forum a great service.

Those of you on pre-order, any idea when the first shipment is coming in?

[DiscoDB]

Imo they nailed it, sales will be pretty high maybe up to 200k per year after the 90 joins. These pics explain why they nailed it better than i could.


Fully agree - the New Defender will be a success and I like it a lot. I also expect it will exceed sales expectations.

They are following the same formula to market as a lifestyle choice and will fill a gap that saw the D1/2 a success in both Europe and the US.

The Slovakian plant has capacity to build 300,000 cars a year - and so JRL are ideally placed to flex production between the Discovery and Defender. So clearly the intent will be if the Defender take sales off the Discovery they can still grow total market share.

The Europeans are world leaders when it comes to manufacturing flexibility. This will be a success.

The new Defender will be best Discovery ever made.....[emoji4]

[blackrangie]

I would have to see it in the flesh and get a test drive b4 spending new car money. But it would be exciting to sign on early!

Whoever it is on here that gets one in first will be doing the forum a great service.

Those of you on pre-order, any idea when the first shipment is coming in?I keep hearing mid next year for accessories etc but we might get luck and it be between march and june for car? Just guesstimate though

[greg-g]

I’ve studied all the options available on the 110, S, and SE variants using the Specification and Price Guide and I can’t get within a mile of explaining the pricing variations.

The basic 110 with Active Diff, Roof Rails, Tow Hitch (I can’t believe it’s not standard.), Driver Assist Pack, and Off-Road pack covers most items. I’m open as to the D200 v’s D240.

What am I missing?

Leather seats would be nice to combat dog hair.

[blackrangie]

I keep hearing mid next year for accessories etc but we might get luck and it be between march and june for car? Just guesstimate thoughThe Explorer Pack - Accessories - Land Rover Defender - Land Rover AU (https://www.landrover.com.au/vehicles/defender/ultimate-personalisation/accessory-packs/explorer-pack.html)

Click this and click on pack upgrades for example Explorer.. you can see things like the ladder front under shield side steps sliders etc. They say these will be available around mid 2020 and from my understanding they are dealer fitted, so can add to the car before pick-up.

[DiscoMick]

A hire car.

[Tombie]

Yawn.......... Unsub....

[SBD4]

The Explorer Pack - Accessories - Land Rover Defender - Land Rover AU (https://www.landrover.com.au/vehicles/defender/ultimate-personalisation/accessory-packs/explorer-pack.html)

Click this and click on pack upgrades for example Explorer.. you can see things like the ladder front under shield side steps sliders etc. They say these will be available around mid 2020 and from my understanding they are dealer fitted, so can add to the car before pick-up.

Also, if you pay for the accessories separately (the ones that can be dealer fitted ) it can help reduce the LCT applied to the vehicle. Just might not suit from a financing perspective.

[manic]

https://www.landyonline.co.za/images/old-vs-new-defender-front.jpg

https://www.landyonline.co.za/images/discovery-3-vs-new-defender-front.jpg

Some good table comparisons on size/weight/clearance/power between P90/110 , D90/110 and D3/4:

New Land Rover Defender 2020 Specifications vs Old Defender vs Discovery3/4 (https://www.landyonline.co.za/specs/new-land-rover-defender-specifications.htm)

[SpudHeadTed]

Yawn indeed.... what the hell does any of this actually mean??


“BLAZE YOUR OWN TRAIL, WHATEVER THE TERRAIN”

...wot it’s got a tree felling blade on the front?


“Defy conventions and conquer the most uncharted landscapes.”
...wot you mean actually drive off the road?! On another planet?!


“...storing dirty or wet items is made easy and secure.”
...well you wouldn’t want your muddy scungies inside the tough Land Rover while blazing unchartered territories! ...or have your soggy sandos getting on the nubuck!

“Stylish bonnet detailing in Matte Black. Individuality is everything.”
...not if everyone’s got an individuality black bonnet thingy!

“Take your passions to new territories.”
...easy tiger! This is a family show! ...and I mean in another brand you would have to leave your passions behind LOL.

“Conquer the concrete jungle”
...is than one of those uncharted territories?!?

And whats this? an exterior tinny holder! Or an end of the world rain catchment system?

155029

[SpudHeadTed]

https://www.landyonline.co.za/images/old-vs-new-defender-front.jpg

https://www.landyonline.co.za/images/discovery-3-vs-new-defender-front.jpg

Some good table comparisons on size/weight/clearance/power between P90/110 , D90/110 and D3/4:

New Land Rover Defender 2020 Specifications vs Old Defender vs Discovery3/4 (https://www.landyonline.co.za/specs/new-land-rover-defender-specifications.htm)

Yep, it’s a bullfrog named Defisco!

Its hard to believe that JLR went to all that trouble with the D5, when they knew all along that the D6 Defisco was in the pipeline! Bonkers.

AND GASP!! ...according to those specs, the new 110’s front wheel track is wider than the rear!! (Just like a 70 series!) ...or is it a typo?




EXTERIOR DIMENSIONS, mm
Length 5018, Width 2105, Height 1967, Wheelbase 3022, Front Track 1704, Rear Track 1670
Length 4583, Width 2105, Height 1970, Wheelbase 2587, Front Track 1706, Rear Track 1702

[1nando]

Yawn indeed.... what the hell does any of this actually mean??


“BLAZE YOUR OWN TRAIL, WHATEVER THE TERRAIN”

...wot it’s got a tree felling blade on the front?


“Defy conventions and conquer the most uncharted landscapes.”
...wot you mean actually drive off the road?! On another planet?!


“...storing dirty or wet items is made easy and secure.”
...well you wouldn’t want your muddy scungies inside the tough Land Rover while blazing unchartered territories! ...or have your soggy sandos getting on the nubuck!

“Stylish bonnet detailing in Matte Black. Individuality is everything.”
...not if everyone’s got and individuality black bonnet thingy!

“Take your passions to new territories.”
...easy tiger! This is a family show! ...and I mean in another brand you would have to leave your passions behind LOL.

“Conquer the concrete jungle”
...is than one of those uncharted territories?!?

And whats this? an exterior tinny holder! Or an end of the world rain catchment system?

155029Lol. Thoroughly enjoyed that post [emoji106][emoji106][emoji106]

LR forgot that an estimated 75% of the world's population saw a series/ defender as their first car ever. This one will just follow the tracks left by the old one , in comfort and style.

[blackrangie]

Yawn indeed.... what the hell does any of this actually mean??


“BLAZE YOUR OWN TRAIL, WHATEVER THE TERRAIN”

...wot it’s got a tree felling blade on the front?


“Defy conventions and conquer the most uncharted landscapes.”
...wot you mean actually drive off the road?! On another planet?!


“...storing dirty or wet items is made easy and secure.”
...well you wouldn’t want your muddy scungies inside the tough Land Rover while blazing unchartered territories! ...or have your soggy sandos getting on the nubuck!

“Stylish bonnet detailing in Matte Black. Individuality is everything.”
...not if everyone’s got and individuality black bonnet thingy!

“Take your passions to new territories.”
...easy tiger! This is a family show! ...and I mean in another brand you would have to leave your passions behind LOL.

“Conquer the concrete jungle”
...is than one of those uncharted territories?!?

And whats this? an exterior tinny holder! Or an end of the world rain catchment system?

155029Maybe you could send in some of your own suggestions for them to use [emoji6]

[blackrangie]

Lol

LR This one will just follow the tracks left by the old one , in comfort and style.

Well said

[blackrangie]

https://www.landyonline.co.za/images/old-vs-new-defender-front.jpg

https://www.landyonline.co.za/images/discovery-3-vs-new-defender-front.jpg

Some good table comparisons on size/weight/clearance/power between P90/110 , D90/110 and D3/4:

New Land Rover Defender 2020 Specifications vs Old Defender vs Discovery3/4 (https://www.landyonline.co.za/specs/new-land-rover-defender-specifications.htm)Great link, cheers

Track looks 34mm difference front rear on 110, not significant
(Edit)only a few mm

Almost no difference on 90

79 series is 100mmhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191018/c7bfe2e42b53ed637b0a217ce551ac40.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191018/a3ee6d3eebe155f2d18182d6d237c057.jpg

[DiscoMick]

Yawn indeed.... what the hell does any of this actually mean??


“BLAZE YOUR OWN TRAIL, WHATEVER THE TERRAIN”

...wot it’s got a tree felling blade on the front?


“Defy conventions and conquer the most uncharted landscapes.”
...wot you mean actually drive off the road?! On another planet?!


“...storing dirty or wet items is made easy and secure.”
...well you wouldn’t want your muddy scungies inside the tough Land Rover while blazing unchartered territories! ...or have your soggy sandos getting on the nubuck!

“Stylish bonnet detailing in Matte Black. Individuality is everything.”
...not if everyone’s got and individuality black bonnet thingy!

“Take your passions to new territories.”
...easy tiger! This is a family show! ...and I mean in another brand you would have to leave your passions behind LOL.

“Conquer the concrete jungle”
...is than one of those uncharted territories?!?

And whats this? an exterior tinny holder! Or an end of the world rain catchment system?

155029Actually, a rain catchment system is a good idea. I have seen a caravan with a rain catchment system so the roof water was directed to a catchment vent with a washable filter and then into a tank underneath.
Old Defenders could have a water tank fitted behind the rear wheel. Just needed to run a hose from the gutters to the rear tank nozzle. Good idea!
[emoji6]
But no, I doubt the new Defender will have a rain catchment system.
Pity.

[DiscoMick]

I like the new Defender. I think it's an excellent upgrade of an icon for the modern world. I would even buy one, except that now I'm a retired old fart I could only afford one by raiding the super or selling the house, which is unlikely.
Maybe I'll wait until BR trades his in 3-4.years and go for it.

[SBD4]

Yep, it’s a bullfrog named Defisco!

Its hard to believe that JLR went to all that trouble with the D5, when they knew all along that the D6 Defisco was in the pipeline! Bonkers.

AND GASP!! ...according to those specs, the new 110’s front wheel track is wider than the rear!! (Just like a 70 series!) ...or is it a typo?




EXTERIOR DIMENSIONS, mm
Length 5018, Width 2105, Height 1967, Wheelbase 3022, Front Track 1704, Rear Track 1670
Length 4583, Width 2105, Height 1970, Wheelbase 2587, Front Track 1706, Rear Track 1702













Always go to the source for the specs....you are right but it's only 2-4mm:



[TH="bgcolor: #E4E8E8, align: left"]Front wheel track (mm)
1,704 (Coil) / 1,706 (Air)


Rear wheel track (mm)
1,702

[ozscott]

Man the old one looks good in those side by sides. Shows how hard it is to try to keep up with a great shape but round it.

Cheers

[blackrangie]

Always go to the source for the specs....you are right but it's only 2-4mm:



[TH="bgcolor: #E4E8E8, align: left"]Front wheel track (mm)
1,704 (Coil) / 1,706 (Air)


Rear wheel track (mm)
1,702

For both 110 and 90?

[SBD4]

For both 110 and 90?
That was the 90, 110 is



Front wheel track (mm)
1,704.1


Rear wheel track (mm)
1,699.7



so 4.4mm difference

[JDNSW]

This sort of difference looks like the result of slightly different suspension deflection in the state that they are measured. With independent suspension of the type used in these vehicles, the track changes with deflection. (Applies to most independent suspension)

The differences probably reflect the empty weight/load distribution/spring setup for the 90 and 110.

[scarry]

That was the 90, 110 is



Front wheel track (mm)
1,704.1


Rear wheel track (mm)
1,699.7



so 4.4mm difference

Disco 4 was 7.5mm difference,so they are getting better..[bigrolf]

Nothing to worry about.

[tc_s1]

Great link, cheers

Track looks 34mm difference front rear on 110, not significant
(Edit)only a few mm

Almost no difference on 90

79 series is 100mmhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191018/c7bfe2e42b53ed637b0a217ce551ac40.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191018/a3ee6d3eebe155f2d18182d6d237c057.jpgIf they would have tucked the front fender up under the hood on the new one as with the old, I think the lines would be more appealing to some of us heritage lovers. That said, function wins over form most times in my book, so waiting to see how this rolls out and remains over a bit of time.

[blackrangie]

Few interesting pics, rear ladder (maybe comes with tent?)

What engine? And great shot of 90 with ragtop and look at the body curve!https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191019/1d12c352d8bdc362dfe38e23f0d0771b.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191019/92ad91f1f07ee9d0cb21f048191197d4.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191019/3e920696aa15350dc9fbe7af235a5ad5.jpg

[scarry]

Thats the only place for a ladder with that style RTT??

It would be in the way for sure,at times.

Ours is a different style RTT,and its on the right of the vehicle,awning on the left,works well,ladder is out of the way.

[cripesamighty]

A publicity shot, set up by people who have never been camping or off-roading most likely.

[4bee]

Would be a bit of as business getting up for a leak (M & FM) in the night wouldn't it & then find as one hit the dirt some bugger had lifted one's ladder.[bigsad]

Maybe the old Funnel & plastic hose is an option?[smilebigeye]


Then again, I suppose one could always put the groceries, clothing & stuff in the tent & sleep in the back of the car?[wink11]

[manic]

and look at the body curve!https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191019/3e920696aa15350dc9fbe7af235a5ad5.jpg

So that's how they made the rear 'stepped tub' look - the top half of the cabin narrows towards the back! [emoji32]

[4bee]

I like that step from the rear. It is a 'gesture' to the Series 2 & 2A etc tubs. [smilebigeye]

[blackrangie]

Thats the only place for a ladder with that style RTT??

It would be in the way for sure,at times.

Ours is a different style RTT,and its on the right of the vehicle,awning on the left,works well,ladder is out of the way.

The LR one has Left/ Right and back entry if you look close.

I would be going gullwing awning on pasenger which goes right around to rear drivers opening door,LR dropdown ladder on drivers side for RTT access.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191020/f284128ac2caddc771098fc1222458e2.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191020/2977e4382e55859b5e21fd9a435b4c88.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191020/761ce2615902c2766ff048ec92c9fb66.jpg

[blackrangie]

Would be a bit of as business getting up for a leak (M & FM) in the night wouldn't it & then find as one hit the dirt some bugger had lifted one's ladder.[bigsad]

Maybe the old Funnel & plastic hose is an option?[smilebigeye]


Then again, I suppose one could always put the groceries, clothing & stuff in the tent & sleep in the back of the car?[wink11]Lock the LR dropdown ladder, +1 for funnel and hose [emoji1417][emoji23]

[blackrangie]

I like that step from the rear. It is a 'gesture' to the Series 2 & 2A etc tubs. [smilebigeye]That 90 is guna be a top seller imo, nearly the whole roof opens up and the lines are beautiful!

110 will get the opening rag roof next year I believe.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191020/497b1f16cb55c77b8943481353dc7f4c.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191020/cb516bdad5d01b06a25cea130e4b9203.jpg

[4bee]

Lock the LR dropdown ladder, +1 for funnel and hose [emoji1417][emoji23]


Then one could wake up to the dulcet tones of a 20volt angle grinder going hammer & tongs. BASTARDS![biggrin]

[blackrangie]

Then one could wake up to the dulcet tones of a 20volt angle grinder going hammer & tongs. BASTARDS![biggrin]Thats dedication [emoji23]

[4bee]

No br, bloody thievery.[bigsad]

[blackrangie]

No br, bloody thievery.[bigsad]Alllrightythen [emoji23]

[Tombie]

Just cancelled our order.

Mrs Tombie and I have decided not to buy more vehicles, rather spend more time doing what we enjoy.

New Hybrid Camper on the way and a few more mods will see us golden for another 5 years.

[irondoc]

Need another sig change Tombie....

[scarry]

Just cancelled our order.

Mrs Tombie and I have decided not to buy more vehicles, rather spend more time doing what we enjoy.

New Hybrid Camper on the way and a few more mods will see us golden for another 5 years.

Good to see you have made a decision,i know it wouldn't have been easy.

We are umming,ahring,and back again.[bighmmm]

Need to have a good look at the new beast before we commit,make sure it is what we want.

Our lives are changing shortly,retiring from work is not far around the corner....

So we need something that fits into what we will be doing without work.

[1nando]

Good to see you have made a decision,i know it wouldn't have been easy.

We are umming,ahring,and back again.[bighmmm]

Need to have a good look at the new beast before we commit,make sure it is what we want.

Our lives are changing shortly,retiring from work is not far around the corner....

So we need something that fits into what we will be doing without work.Not to mention the first series of any model usually has issues to sort

[101RRS]

Just cancelled our order.

Bugger, not going to be able to buy a near new Defender with all the fruit and accessories for half the new price in a couple of years [bigsad]

[roverrescue]

Mike

I’d be guessing with a nice 90 and a solid D4
The $3750 a month or whatever lease payment
You’re not gonna spend on a 2020 Defisco will Go a long way to doing the things you enjoy!

I also have an inkling that in 2025 we will look back as a society on the end of the “teens” as some golden years on a global financial / economic / environmental living costs perspective ???

S

[Tombie]

Mike

I’d be guessing with a nice 90 and a solid D4
The $3750 a month or whatever lease payment
You’re not gonna spend on a 2020 Defisco will Go a long way to doing the things you enjoy!

I also have an inkling that in 2025 we will look back as a society on the end of the “teens” as some golden years on a global financial / economic / environmental living costs perspective ???

S

Yeah... getting older and we both agreed we’re buying it because we could not because we needed to.

So for the first time - we aren’t!

New hybrid camper is on the cards, a few tweaks on the current vehicles and a big shift towards a better work-life balance.

[blackrangie]

Yeah... getting older and we both agreed we’re buying it because we could not because we needed to.

So for the first time - we aren’t!

New hybrid camper is on the cards, a few tweaks on the current vehicles and a big shift towards a better work-life balance.Very mature call, well done.

[SpudHeadTed]

Yeah... getting older and we both agreed we’re buying it because we could not because we needed to.

So for the first time - we aren’t!

New hybrid camper is on the cards, a few tweaks on the current vehicles and a big shift towards a better work-life balance.

Tough decision Tombie! ...what is the hybrid camper you're looking at? - sounds interesting.

[blackrangie]

Some questions with the integrated mhev dcdc, will we be able to patch solar into this system, to run fridges etc.

So not having to install another dcdc converter.

Also having a generator, are they less seceptable to water/mud damage then alternators

Also notice how low the electrics are under rear floor, without +2 rear seats, surely there is underfloor storage?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191020/8cb9bf5d407f6c4b566691a95ac42040.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191020/dbd090cd49f3fc5ab54e0f526aaea906.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191020/8eeb964f5024b02a1b432b50decab2f4.jpg

[SBD4]

I think one of the videos I saw showed space under the floor where those battery packs are for non-MHEV vehicles.


Also notice how low the electrics are under rear floor, without +2 rear seats, surely there is underfloor storage?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191020/8cb9bf5d407f6c4b566691a95ac42040.jpg

[DiscoMick]

Yeah... getting older and we both agreed we’re buying it because we could not because we needed to.

So for the first time - we aren’t!

New hybrid camper is on the cards, a few tweaks on the current vehicles and a big shift towards a better work-life balance.Wise decision financially. In three years you'll be able to buy the same vehicle for half the price thanks to depreciation.
We are at the same stage. Upgraded to a fancier camper and retired. The 110 has only done 138,000 Ks so it will keep us mobile for years to come. And we have a little Mazda to run around in.
Get out there!

[roverrescue]

BR
I’d imagine until the MHEV gets into the wild it will be hard to know
Considering they are running a combined generator / starter / electric motor
And 48V Lith my gut would say that it is a full 48V system
Ie - generates at 48V and starter / boost runs on 48V

So to use the 48Lith to run a fridge you’d possibly be able to tap the system and run a step down to say 24V and run your Engle on that but I’d imagine back feeding solar (even via a good Lith program charger to a 48V system would be risky!!!)

The reason they use a generator is that it can double as a motor
Alternator cannot play that trick

I was a little surprised it is belt driven and not gear driven to the flywheel???? Must be a pretty ballsy belt!!!

The real test for LR engineering is going to be just how close to IP67 they got with those electrics!!!! I wonder where the breather system is for the Liths? Having seen JLR “breather engineering” I bet they run it to 902mm height!!! Flooding those batteries in Nolan’s would I imagine result in a flatbed back to Cairns!!

Steve

[roverrescue]

Poops
My misread - I thought the e-supercharger was actually forward driving the gen/starter to give some push - it seems to be a seperate system
“Boosting the turbo charger to minimise lag”
Ie it’s going to be an electric air turbine giving boost at low revs before turbo generates power

I wonder why they went that way and not just run a bet driven supercharger for charge air
And the electric motor straight into transfer case or some such???

Anyways - will be super interesting to see these things in the flesh

S

[SBD4]

The real test for LR engineering is going to be just how close to IP67 they got with those electrics!!!! I wonder where the breather system is for the Liths? Having seen JLR “breather engineering” I bet they run it to 902mm height!!! Flooding those batteries in Nolan’s would I imagine result in a flatbed back to Cairns!!

Steve

Aren't all the batteries sealed? They're even sticking the starter battery in the back now on the L405/L494 etc along with the stop/start battery as well.

[roverrescue]

Need some sort of breather to help with air changing over temperature change
Liths done necessarily vent gas like a lead acid but they need to breathe to keep cool

Temperature control is just as important as charge control

Just ask Boeing !!!!

[blackrangie]

I think one of the videos I saw showed space under the floor where those battery packs are for non-MHEV vehicles.Yes, but with MHEV and no +2 3rd row seats it looks like will still be space

[Rob66]

Some questions with the integrated mhev dcdc, will we be able to patch solar into this system, to run fridges etc.

So not having to install another dcdc converter.

Also having a generator, are they less seceptable to water/mud damage then alternators

Also notice how low the electrics are under rear floor, without +2 rear seats, surely there is underfloor storage?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191020/8cb9bf5d407f6c4b566691a95ac42040.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191020/dbd090cd49f3fc5ab54e0f526aaea906.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191020/8eeb964f5024b02a1b432b50decab2f4.jpg

Without the MHEV unit the boot has an under-floor "box" ..
155056

[manic]

Some questions with the integrated mhev dcdc, will we be able to patch solar into this system, to run fridges etc.

So not having to install another dcdc converter.

Also having a generator, are they less seceptable to water/mud damage then alternators

Also notice how low the electrics are under rear floor, without +2 rear seats, surely there is underfloor storage?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191020/8cb9bf5d407f6c4b566691a95ac42040.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191020/dbd090cd49f3fc5ab54e0f526aaea906.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191020/8eeb964f5024b02a1b432b50decab2f4.jpgAll I see there is a diesel with a battery powered turbo that helps reduce turbo lag. Calling a vehicle with this this set up an Electric Vehicle of any kind is a joke, surely. The Pretender Mild Hybrid Electric Vehicle system only supports engine off coasting when under 3km per hour!

All that extra kit for a power boost and questionable emissions reduction. Not for me. Who would?

For a hybrid EV option, wait for the PHEV!

[rar110]

Without the MHEV unit the boot has an under-floor "box" ..
155056

That’s handy (for stuff you hope you don’t need). Might be a good spot for an emergency jerry can.

[roverrescue]

Tell me that is the rear luggage space on a 90

Or that it’s a camera trickery

That looks tiny for a

“lifestyle vehicle”

Would struggle to fit a kitesurfing setup in the back of that!

Oh and Manic - I completely agree - so much electrickery for a bit of ricer boy extra boost before the turbo spools - seems like they are merely testing the whole concept of Hybrid without actually going whole hog and installing an electric motor anywhere - oh im sure the already heavy 2.4T or whatever it is meant they needed to contain weight somewhat.... an extra 100kg of elec motor and controllers would have Hurt Overall fuel burn



S

[Rob66]

Tell me that is the rear luggage space on a 90

Or that it’s a camera trickery

That looks tiny for a

“lifestyle vehicle”

Would struggle to fit a kitesurfing setup in the back of that!

Oh and Manic - I completely agree - so much electrickery for a bit of ricer boy extra boost before the turbo spools - seems like they are merely testing the whole concept of Hybrid without actually going whole hog and installing an electric motor anywhere - oh im sure the already heavy 2.4T or whatever it is meant they needed to contain weight somewhat.... an extra 100kg of elec motor and controllers would have Hurt Overall fuel burn



S

Maybe just camera angle...

D110 has 1075 litres of space with 2nd row seats up, 2380 with the flat. By comparison the Disco5 has 1137 and 2406 respectively .. so the D110 is slightly smaller than the D5 ...

[djambalawa]

Just thinking.. the below are things that the new defender comes with that will cost extra on any other car?



Clearance/suspension - basically on every other 4wd if you want to make it a capable 4wd tourer you'll want to get a 2" lift with better shockies/springs... for thing like clearance and towing... fair call? Worth maybe $2k for an OME type setup? You don't need this with the air suspenson.
A/T tyres as an option - so we're not paying for road tyres and then having to swap them? Again you don't want road tyres on the central arnhem road i just did etc. Performance is the least of your concerns - its just being able to last a trip. Might be worth $500?
Headlights - I find with my discos etc the headlights on high beam are excellent - you dont really need spotties unless you're wanting to drive at 130kmh at night... any other 4wd i've driven has crappy factory high beam.. but i'm sure some must be ok.. spotties can be easily worth $800 fitted?
Rust prevention - the oil leaks do a cover over the underbody that.. ok I'm running out of idea..


Any legitimacy in this? Worth maybe $3k?

[blackrangie]

Without the MHEV unit the boot has an under-floor "box" ..
155056Ok so you can get + 2 3rd row seats on both engines, and they still fold into floor so would not the MHEV not still have space were seats usually fold into, just not space were MHEV gear sits?

[Gregz]

Then you will probably want to spend that and a little bit more to get (if I was buying I would spec these);
- active rear diff (Off-Road pack $1448)
- ATPC + Terrain response 2 + Config TR (Advanced Off-road Capability Pack $2210 )
- tow hitch receiver ($949)
- driver assist pack ($2086)

total $6693 plus LCT.

[Rob66]

Ok so you can get + 2 3rd row seats on both engines, and they still fold into floor so would not the MHEV not still have space were seats usually fold into, just not space were MHEV gear sits?

Mate .. I'm not a LR dealer but that's a pic I took in Frankfurt. The dumpkoff there told me the hybrid gear goes in that space .. but maybe he was spinning a tall one and thought I was a stupid engelander ;)

[SBD4]

Need some sort of breather to help with air changing over temperature change
Liths done necessarily vent gas like a lead acid but they need to breathe to keep cool

Temperature control is just as important as charge control

Just ask Boeing !!!!

Yes, I guess what I was saying is that they're now stored inside the vehicle, at the rear, so the breather you were asking about is not going to be part of the wading depth mitigation (if it exists at all).

[roverrescue]

And Sean that was my point
Have they put heat breathing at 902mm say up the C/D pillar
Thereby maintaining 900mm wading depth but say you
Get in a SHTF moment in Nolan’s and the back corner dips to 1m plus and a gut full of creek gushes down into the brainology of Lithium charge control .....


You see I don’t drink JLR coolaide and I’ve seen what their engineers have done over the years for things like this despite all the rhetoric about how life changingly awesome it is when push comes to shove the breather maybe just meets wading depth and not a centimetre more....

Equals trouble


900mm wading while moving over a concrete causeway is a doddle
Getting bogged in 900 deep sandy creek and having to winch out over say 10minutes with dips and bumps will really test out this sort of system.


And the reality is that it is a lot of electricery for very very little benefit .... at most a few seconds of turbo lag on hard acceleration will be improved - whoop-de-fecking doo.
It’s a shame because the P300 petrol alone without the sparks would be a better choice than the diesos in my opinion ?



S

[blackrangie]

Mate .. I'm not a LR dealer but that's a pic I took in Frankfurt. The dumpkoff there told me the hybrid gear goes in that space .. but maybe he was spinning a tall one and thought I was a stupid engelander ;)I agree with you but obviously there is space for the seats above the mild hybrid gear.

[roverrescue]

BR
Do the third row seats fold to floor or to the sides ?
If to the floor are they then flat with the 2nd row folded?
If flat - there can’t be too much rear leg room (depth of seat squab only)

Gee it will be nice when this thing is finally in the wild!!!

S

[blackrangie]

Maybe just camera angle...

D110 has 1075 litres of space with 2nd row seats up, 2380 with the flat. By comparison the Disco5 has 1137 and 2406 respectively .. so the D110 is slightly smaller than the D5 ...Hmm really not that much difference, 4wders generally prefer good departure angles/rampover angles over interior space.

[jon3950]

Hmm really not that much difference, 4wders generally prefer good departure angles/rampover angles over interior space.

About 10%.

I don't have the numbers but I suspect it would be significantly more compared to the previous 110.

Those of us that use them as expedition/touring vehicles would compromise some departure angle for a bit more room. The previous 110 made a good expedition vehicle. It now looks like you'll need to go for a 130 for a similar result.

[blackrangie]

About 10%.

I don't have the numbers but I suspect it would be significantly more compared to the previous 110.

Those of us that use them as expedition/touring vehicles would compromise some departure angle for a bit more room. The previous 110 made a good expedition vehicle. It now looks like you'll need to go for a 130 for a similar result.Yep 10% is nothing really, just put 10% of your stuff thats light on the rack + underfloor + side storage box, We use our RRC LSE as an expedition vehicle, the 110 looks based on pictures alone to be a large step up in usable space, especially looking at the full flat ability.

If its just the two of you and your building a true expedition vehicle, pull all the rear seats out and you will have tons of space, over a toone of payload and great offroad angles.

Im guessing commercial will be similar spec.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191021/527aa61cc17eade5fda8be11954abaa1.jpg

[SBD4]

And Sean that was my point
Have they put heat breathing at 902mm say up the C/D pillar
Thereby maintaining 900mm wading depth but say you
Get in a SHTF moment in Nolan’s and the back corner dips to 1m plus and a gut full of creek gushes down into the brainology of Lithium charge control .....


You see I don’t drink JLR coolaide and I’ve seen what their engineers have done over the years for things like this despite all the rhetoric about how life changingly awesome it is when push comes to shove the breather maybe just meets wading depth and not a centimetre more....

Equals trouble


900mm wading while moving over a concrete causeway is a doddle
Getting bogged in 900 deep sandy creek and having to winch out over say 10minutes with dips and bumps will really test out this sort of system.


And the reality is that it is a lot of electricery for very very little benefit .... at most a few seconds of turbo lag on hard acceleration will be improved - whoop-de-fecking doo.
It’s a shame because the P300 petrol alone without the sparks would be a better choice than the diesos in my opinion ?



S

Fair enough, Nothing should ever be taken at face value.

I have read that flooding the vehicle to well over it's wading ability with doors open for an hour is part of Land Rovers testing regime. This is what they did the the D5:


Heslop explains that the fording maximum is set at 900mm "because after that it floats". Land Rover has a test where the vehicle is put into a water tank at up to 30 per cent greater depth than it claims, all the doors are opened and the vehicle left for an hour, before the poor test engineer has to wade back in and check the vehicle will restart and crawl its way out of the flood.

Of course that it does not preclude some oversight, but I figure if they're going to that sort of trouble they will have covered most if not all bases.

On the complexity of the engine, Yeah I agree, I can't understand why the P300 is not here (thanks LRA) for those that want petrol but without the "electrickery" and no doubt the diesel line up needs a 6 with decent torque. On a side note, according to the UK site the P400 is ever so slightly more fuel efficient than the P300.

Personally, I think the engineers will have done a stellar job. It is the marketers and the designers (interior) that have mucked this up. They needed to tone down the stylistic aspect of the vehicle and get rid of some of the gadgetry. A little pragmatism would have gone a long way.

I'm fine with them milking the upper end of the market but disappointed that they haven't served the bottom end of the market very well. It's hard not to be cynical when you look at they way they have packaged it.

Ultimately, we will see how they did when someone can get their hands on one and drive it proper. I like the car and think it will be a success but there are a whole lot of people that were really looking forward to this that are perhaps disappointed that it is out of reach when it needn't have been.

[SBD4]

If its just the two of you and your building a true expedition vehicle, pull all the rear seats out and you will have tons of space, over a toone of payload and great offroad angles.

BR, I think the payload will be dependent on the model and options added. The base 110 has a payload of 825Kgs (same as L494) while the "X" is 732Kgs. That's with full fluids and 75Kg driver (I haven't been 75Kgs since I was 16!). Getting a seven seater would be the go because LR add an extra 100Kgs to the max rear axle weight and 85Kgs to the gross weight of the vehicle meaning if you trim back the fat in the form of unneeded seats you might get some extra capacity. That might get you to the tonne on the base model but I don't think so on the 'X'.

[1nando]

Fair enough, Nothing should ever be taken at face value.

I have read that flooding the vehicle to well over it's wading ability with doors open for an hour is part of Land Rovers testing regime. This is what they did the the D5:



Of course that it does not preclude some oversight, but I figure if they're going to that sort of trouble they will have covered most if not all bases.

On the complexity of the engine, Yeah I agree, I can't understand why the P300 is not here (thanks LRA) for those that want petrol but without the "electrickery" and no doubt the diesel line up needs a 6 with decent torque. On a side note, according to the UK site the P400 is ever so slightly more fuel efficient than the P300.

Personally, I think the engineers will have done a stellar job. It is the marketers and the designers (interior) that have mucked this up. They needed to tone down the stylistic aspect of the vehicle and get rid of some of the gadgetry. A little pragmatism would have gone a long way.

I'm fine with them milking the upper end of the market but disappointed that they haven't served the bottom end of the market very well. It's hard not to be cynical when you look at they way they have packaged it.

Ultimately, we will see how they did when someone can get their hands on one and drive it proper. I like the car and think it will be a success but there are a whole lot of people that were really looking forward to this that are perhaps disappointed that it is out of reach when it needn't have been.I think judging whether or not the engineers did a "stellar job" will be proven in time. If they have this vehcile will sell tremendously well. If one is reported as having a major issue or fault I believe the brand will not be able to avoid terrible sales and the perception unrecoverable. This is a golden opportunity for LR to show the world that this new defender is a reflection of where the company is in today's market and where its heading tomorrow and that reliabilty is paramount to the company's ethos and marketing strategy.

I'm disappointed like you on the price point and feel as though they've chosen to ignore those that supported them over many years of Defender ownership. Having 2 small children and Mrs id happily pay $100k for a offroad capable comfortable vehicle. Anyhting over that seems like it's too much and at an estimated $120-$130k for a reasonably kitted 110 a bit on the ridiculous side.

Sure it's got some fancy gear but this new vehicle also has no pedigree, the name plate doesn't automatically award it worthy status but rather time and resilience to offroad torture.

[blackrangie]

I think judging whether or not the engineers did a "stellar job" will be proven in time. If they have this vehcile will sell tremendously well. If one is reported as having a major issue or fault I believe the brand will not be able to avoid terrible sales and the perception unrecoverable. This is a golden opportunity for LR to show the world that this new defender is a reflection of where the company is in today's market and where its heading tomorrow and that reliabilty is paramount to the company's ethos and marketing strategy.

I'm disappointed like you on the price point and feel as though they've chosen to ignore those that supported them over many years of Defender ownership. Having 2 small children and Mrs id happily pay $100k for a offroad capable comfortable vehicle. Anyhting over that seems like it's too much and at an estimated $120-$130k for a reasonably kitted 110 a bit on the ridiculous side.

Sure it's got some fancy gear but this new vehicle also has no pedigree, the name plate doesn't automatically award it worthy status but rather time and resilience to offroad torture.Based on what has been shown so far i also agree the engineers have done a stellar job, much better than i expected.

[SBD4]

I think judging whether or not the engineers did a "stellar job" will be proven in time. If they have this vehcile will sell tremendously well. If one is reported as having a major issue or fault I believe the brand will not be able to avoid terrible sales and the perception unrecoverable. This is a golden opportunity for LR to show the world that this new defender is a reflection of where the company is in today's market and where its heading tomorrow and that reliabilty is paramount to the company's ethos and marketing strategy.

I'm disappointed like you on the price point and feel as though they've chosen to ignore those that supported them over many years of Defender ownership. Having 2 small children and Mrs id happily pay $100k for a offroad capable comfortable vehicle. Anyhting over that seems like it's too much and at an estimated $120-$130k for a reasonably kitted 110 a bit on the ridiculous side.

Sure it's got some fancy gear but this new vehicle also has no pedigree, the name plate doesn't automatically award it worthy status but rather time and resilience to offroad torture.

Yep, the proof will be in the pudding for sure and you are dead right about how important this vehicle is to Land Rovers future.

The "new model" syndrome sure is a factor here. While the much of componentry has been proven in other vehicles, it hasn't been proven in the Defender configuration. There's also the new components and the biggie which is the manufacturing process. They seem to have been doing OK with the D5 in Slovakia, but it will be interesting to see how they go now they have to work with building two different vehicles instead of one.

[roverrescue]

Sean
Although I can only take Mr Heslop on his word
I’m sure he has been a little loose with the truth
30% deeper than 900 makes what 1200mm deep water
Even at max height that is well above bonnet / dash height
Even if they had a completely sealed air intake
After an hour water will find its way up the exhaust and into the engine IF it is not running
As indicated in the deep pool story

Now perhaps they sat in 1200 deep pool and kept it running and it didn’t die
With only a true snorkel modification

Or maybe they used a fully sealed extended exhaust stack before shutting down

But as that story is written I’m calling complete marketing BS



Having said all that maybe they have tested this jigger really really well and it will exceed even the toughest off-road challenges
But colour me skeptical I’ll wait to see it in the flesh
Before I start lauding the engineers !!!!

S

[jon3950]

Yep 10% is nothing really,

I consider 10% to be significant and its probably more like 20% on the old 110. Also, its not just volume but useable dimensions. Although the back of a Defender is a funny shape I find it easier to pack than a D4 due to its length. The length in the back of the new 110 is much less than a D4 (can’t remember the numbers) and to me that is a significant compromise. It’s easy to say carry less, or put more stuff on the roof, but for me that is a compromise that I don’t want.

It can’t be all things to all people and no vehicle is perfect. For me though that reduction of space in the back is a big negative.

[scarry]

I consider 10% to be significant and its probably more like 20% on the old 110. Also, its not just volume but useable dimensions. Although the back of a Defender is a funny shape I find it easier to pack than a D4 due to its length. The length in the back of the new 110 is much less than a D4 (can’t remember the numbers) and to me that is a significant compromise. It’s easy to say carry less, or put more stuff on the roof, but for me that is a compromise that I don’t want.

It can’t be all things to all people and no vehicle is perfect. For me though that reduction of space in the back is a big negative.

Its around 200mm less than D4,which is a huge amount of room.
Using a RTT,not much more will fit on the roof,but it does leave a bit more room inside the vehicle.

D1 rear to D2 was 150mm,and the general comment was that was a huge amount of room.

I do think LR deliberately left it short in the rear,to accomodate the 130.Whether that was a good idea,or not,we will have to wait and see.

Many do like the D4,LC,Patrol,old Defender,as a touring wagon, because the have a heap of loadspace room.
I would think people that own them would much prefer the room than worry to much about departure angles.

Removing the 2nd row of seats maybe OK for long trips,which i have done many times,but for shortish trips taking them in and out is a PITA.

[DiscoMick]

One of the main reasons we traded our D1 for a 110 was the extra room in the rear. It's a major issue for expedition vehicles.

[SBD4]

Sean
Although I can only take Mr Heslop on his word
I’m sure he has been a little loose with the truth
30% deeper than 900 makes what 1200mm deep water
Even at max height that is well above bonnet / dash height
Even if they had a completely sealed air intake
After an hour water will find its way up the exhaust and into the engine IF it is not running
As indicated in the deep pool story

Now perhaps they sat in 1200 deep pool and kept it running and it didn’t die
With only a true snorkel modification

Or maybe they used a fully sealed extended exhaust stack before shutting down

But as that story is written I’m calling complete marketing BS



Having said all that maybe they have tested this jigger really really well and it will exceed even the toughest off-road challenges
But colour me skeptical I’ll wait to see it in the flesh
Before I start lauding the engineers !!!!

S
Nothing wrong with a good dose of skepticism Steve, it's a basic instinct that helps to keep us wary of hazards (taken to the cleaners)![thumbsupbig]

Who knows what the true test parameters were? I can only assume that for the test to be somewhat meaningful the car had to be configured as it would be used by Average Joe. Maybe the success criteria was simply that the vehicle had to operate for 15 minutes after the 1 hour submersion after which point it was a write off.

My take on it is, regardless of the actual depth and duration of the test, it's a pretty impressive feat for a modern vehicle to achieve given the prolific use of electronics.

It would be great if LR released some test footage like they did with the D3 (maybe someone else did that). It'd go a long way to settling the doubts around the claims they are making and cementing some confidence in the legitimacy of the to its heritage.

BTW I only bring this info up as I think it is interesting and gives some more points to discuss. With this stuff, I like to keep an open mind to both sides...it helps my education... God knows i need it!

[roverrescue]

Agree it’s very interesting information
Just that engines don’t run after they fill up with water
1200mm will backfill at least one pot via an open exhaust valve
If the engine is not running

Agreed maybe the parameters were somewhat fluid

Hey that old hilux on top gear spent a salty high tide running through it and ran again
BUT they spent a little time making sure the pots were dry (ish) before jumping the starter

Maybe they sat the Defisco in a big bath for an hour

But before hitting the key or whatever jango starts this thing they would have to have emptied the pots of soggy stuff

[cjc_td5]

Haha. Departure angle compromise is fixed by height adjustable air suspension! Give me extra storage volume anyday.

[blackrangie]

These angles are important to me and if a 110 new defender doesn't have enough space for 2 people overlanding imo you have too much stuff.

Big Familys for sure would need to utilize the roof fack or a camper trailer.

These angles are at high setting, increasing the length decreases departure or ramp which are both equally important.

I find it funny that if it had a departure angle that was rubbish some would be saying why did they make it so long.

A true 4x4 should have class leading offroad angles first and then get the most storage around that with a boxy shape, tick, tick, for both generations of defender.

New one looks after family comfort and legroom more which was needed to actually sell it. The rear seats now look like a very nice place to be.

For the 110 its got 34 cubic feet with 3rd row down, which is roughly the same as the D5 with its third row folded. Fold down the second row and the 110’s interior space grows to 78.8 cubic feet, that's a lot of packing space.

Feet is a good measurement for interior car space as you can get a visual.

For those that need more there is the 130(showing mid 2020 release), but no mater how the wheelbase ends up it will be a compromise off-road, however some as already mentioned don't mind as much as others.

And for those that need less there is the 90 which is not far off either.

Pretty much everyone's catered for imo.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191021/4bed428fe0bb09aea802645647d8f5c7.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191021/432ecfe3b831bab57047635103b1defa.jpg

[ozscott]

These angles are important to me and if a 110 new defender doesn't have enough space for 2 people overlanding imo you have too much stuff.

Big Familys for sure would need to utilize the roof fack or a camper trailer.

These angles are at high setting, increasing the length decreases departure or ramp which are both equally important.

I find it funny that if it had a departure angle that was rubbish some would be saying why did they make it so long.

A true 4x4 should have class leading offroad angles first and then get the most storage around that with a boxy shape, tick, tick, for both generations of defender.

New one looks after family comfort and legroom more which was needed to actually sell it. The rear seats now look like a very nice place to be.

For the 110 its got 34 cubic feet with 3rd row down, which is roughly the same as the D5 with its third row folded. Fold down the second row and the 110’s interior space grows to 78.8 cubic feet, that's a lot of packing space.

Feet is a good measurement for interior car space as you can get a visual.

For those that need more there is the 130(showing mid 2020 release), but no mater how the wheelbase ends up it will be a compromise off-road, however some as already mentioned don't mind as much as others.

And for those that need less there is the 90 which is not far off either.

Pretty much everyone's catered for imo.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191021/4bed428fe0bb09aea802645647d8f5c7.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191021/432ecfe3b831bab57047635103b1defa.jpgDepends what you do with the vehicle. When I take the family.of.5 and the boat away on camping trips the new Triton with a much bigger load space and load rating than the 110 is not enough and I need the roof too. And it's not glamping. I can't put more stuff in the boat due to load limits there. I have camped rough plenty of times and this is comfortable but not excessive. Extra boat fuel tabks, boat spare wheels, solar, fishing gear etc etc before you get to camping gear. Now if you add in remoter camping taking in your own water and leaving with your rubbish, well you would need every bit of the d4 extra 200mm and then some. So no there are many people for whom the new 110 just wouldn't cut it.

Cheers

[scarry]

Depends what you do with the vehicle. When I take the family.of.5 and the boat away on camping trips the new Triton with a much bigger load space and load rating than the 110 is not enough and I need the roof too. And it's not glamping. I can't put more stuff in the boat due to load limits there. I have camped rough plenty of times and this is comfortable but not excessive. Extra boat fuel tabks, boat spare wheels, solar, fishing gear etc etc before you get to camping gear. Now if you add in remoter camping taking in your own water and leaving with your rubbish, well you would need every bit of the d4 extra 200mm and then some. So no there are many people for whom the new 110 just wouldn't cut it.

Cheers

Exactly.

Now if it had a larger fuel tank,that would free up the space where a couple of jerries would go,but it hasn’t.Hopefully the after market guys will find space for one.

[blackrangie]

Depends what you do with the vehicle. When I take the family.of.5 and the boat away on camping trips the new Triton with a much bigger load space and load rating than the 110 is not enough and I need the roof too. And it's not glamping. I can't put more stuff in the boat due to load limits there. I have camped rough plenty of times and this is comfortable but not excessive. Extra boat fuel tabks, boat spare wheels, solar, fishing gear etc etc before you get to camping gear. Now if you add in remoter camping taking in your own water and leaving with your rubbish, well you would need every bit of the d4 extra 200mm and then some. So no there are many people for whom the new 110 just wouldn't cut it.

CheersAgree, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, everyone is differenr camping/boating not vic high country/watagans or yalwal in NSW or cape york were angles are everything.

For me, we go long distances, need good space, good angles, drive hard tracks, drive easy tracks.

As mentioned by next year everyone seems to be catered for in the range. If you need big space, go 130. For most 110 will be fine.

One big improvement i see is there is now lots more room for a fridge in the back were as due to the side boxes and smaller rear door in the previous gen defender it was difficult, most ended up with it coming out the side inplace of seats.

Has anyone got the behind front seats literage from gen1,2 defender, i would imagine its similar.

[1nando]

Agree, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, everyone is differenr camping/boating not vic high country/watagans or yalwal in NSW or cape york were angles are everything.

For me, we go long distances, need good space, good angles, drive hard tracks, drive easy tracks.

As mentioned by next year everyone seems to be catered for in the range. If you need big space, go 130. For most 110 will be fine.

One big improvement i see is there is now lots more room for a fridge in the back were as due to the side boxes and smaller rear door in the previous gen defender it was difficult, most ended up with it coming out the side inplace of seats.

Has anyone got the behind front seats literage from gen1,2 defender, i would imagine its similar."One big improvement i see is there is now lots more room for a fridge in the back were as due to the side boxes and smaller rear door in the previous gen defender it was difficult, most ended up with it coming out the side inplace of seats."

What? I thought it was great. I built a draw system between both wheel arches creating a flat floor space above the arches and then installed a gull wing window on the passenger side and accessed my fridge easily. In fact I thought it was very practical apposed to a fridge slide that isn't space efficient or removing a seat which wasn't practical.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191021/2f9b5b6402bab98b983f5d34a55acf8d.jpg

Apologies for the screen shot, but I took it from my Google drive

[blackrangie]

Exactly.

Now if it had a larger fuel tank,that would free up the space where a couple of jerries would go,but it hasn’t.Hopefully the after market guys will find space for one.Larger than what [emoji6], tank size needs to be stated with range and or application or it meaning nothing wouldn't you agree?

[blackrangie]

"One big improvement i see is there is now lots more room for a fridge in the back were as due to the side boxes and smaller rear door in the previous gen defender it was difficult, most ended up with it coming out the side inplace of seats."

What? I thought it was great. I built a draw system between both wheel arches creating a flat floor space above the arches and then installed a gull wing window on the passenger side and accessed my fridge easily. In fact I thought it was very practical apposed to a fridge slide that isn't space efficient or removing a seat which wasn't practical.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191021/2f9b5b6402bab98b983f5d34a55acf8d.jpg

Apologies for the screen shot, but I took it from my Google driveCan you use quote button?

Great option but it would have cost a fair bit of coin, not a chance my wife could reach that.

[1nando]

Can you use quote button?

Great option but it would have cost a fair bit of coin, not a chance my wife could reach that.Cost me a couple of hundred dollars for materials and I did all the work. Simply carry a little 3 step ladder and your Mrs could reach it easily and you could also use it to access the roof rack easily[emoji2369]

[blackrangie]

Defender 7 - EN - Defender 7 - EN on Vimeo (http://www.vimeopro.com/user98861477/defender-7-en)

Finally some great offroad footage

[blackrangie]

Luxury Defender 130 model to crown line-up | Autocar (https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/luxury-defender-130-model-crown-line)

[Rob66]

Holy **** balls .. that is amazing footage. I want one more now.

[SBD4]

Luxury Defender 130 model to crown line-up | Autocar (https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/luxury-defender-130-model-crown-line)

As expected:


While other Defender variants will appear, it is now understood that the rumoured pick-up model has been axed from the product plan.

God knows why Land Rover think that they need to compete with 'The G' .... on beating them on the setting highest prices, $150K for the 'X' and the 130 is going to be even more expensive.

They really need to go with a "Professional" version like Merc have...bare bones, good engine, just without the stupid price tag. Alas, they are chasing the luxury market.

I guess it will mean that, but for a few, however tough or capable these vehicles are, they will never need any of that engineering as the folk that spend that sort of money are not typically the sort that want to 'head out'.

[1nando]

As expected:



God knows why Land Rover think that they need to compete with 'The G' .... on beating them on the setting highest prices, $150K for the 'X' and the 130 is going to be even more expensive.

They really need to go with a "Professional" version like Merc have...bare bones, good engine, just without the stupid price tag. Alas, they are chasing the luxury market.

I guess it will mean that, but for a few, however tough or capable these vehicles are, they will never need any of that engineering as the folk that spend that sort of money are not typically the sort that want to 'head out'.I couldn't agree more. I fear all LRs work in designing this new defender will fall short in sales as a result of the ridiculous price point. Who the hell is going to take a $130k plus vehicle offroad and risk damage? 1%, 5%, 10%.... Not many that's for sure, and if they do they won't extract or utilise much of its ability. That's why the G professional never took off, the price point is also ridiculous.

I was so excited about this new defender now im starting to feel a bit insulted by LR and their decision to price a reasonable one that most young families would actually consider and buy to a completely different class of people. Biggest winners here my friends is Prado, 200, Everest and any other wagon in comparison to the new 110. Even a POS vx 200 at $97k looks like a bargain.
Yes I know you'll tell me how much more capable the new defender is but do the average families need that extra ability at that price point? My 110 puma was bloody unstoppable but the reality is that since having kids we just need a 4wd that's safe, extremely spacious, comfortable, has a solid 4wd abilty and reliable system, I don't need to climb massive obstacles any more. The requirements are in that order by the way and I'd imagine that most young families to be in a similar boat.

Disappointed LR, I'm over this thread and the new defender. I'm out[emoji106][emoji106] might see if I can buy my 110 puma back[emoji848]

[discojools]

Defender 7 - EN - Defender 7 - EN on Vimeo (http://www.vimeopro.com/user98861477/defender-7-en)

Finally some great offroad footage

looks very impressive.

[SBD4]

Defender 7 - EN - Defender 7 - EN on Vimeo (http://www.vimeopro.com/user98861477/defender-7-en)

Finally some great offroad footage

Those were some nice examples of control climbing up those rocks[thumbsupbig].

Anyone else see the rim @ 5:35? I have never seen that before, the must have been testing handling on low tyre pressures.

[cjc_td5]

I must admit I've looked at my MY14 D4 differently recently. Nice decent capacity motor, comfortable and certainly capable enough. Might be holding on to it a fair bit longer yet. Either that or buying a Perentie and modding from there....

[DiscoMick]

My interest would be in a version for over landing, towing our camper. While the 110 might do, looks like I would really need a 130 for the extra space.
So I would want:
2.0 diesel - higher powered version
Rear diff lock
18 inch wheels with AT LTs
Front bar with winch
Underbody protection
Towing kit
Flat roof rack for mounting a solar panel
Basic interior - nothing flash.
Dual battery setup
Largest possible fuel tank
Privacy tinting
Luggage barrier

Many of the listed options don't interest me.

Wonder what that would cost?

[shanegtr]

Those were some nice examples of control climbing up those rocks[thumbsupbig].

Anyone else see the rim @ 5:35? I have never seen that before, the must have been testing handling on low tyre pressures.
I'd say they where just pushing the limits hard - tyres move around more than you think
YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGgWg9Q2TW8)

[jon3950]

I must admit I've looked at my MY14 D4 differently recently. Nice decent capacity motor, comfortable and certainly capable enough. Might be holding on to it a fair bit longer yet. Either that or buying a Perentie and modding from there....

And more space in the back. [bigsmile]

I'd be hanging on to it too. While its always nice to have something new and shiny and there's a lot to like about the new Defender, I think the D4 is looking like a better all round proposition as a touring vehicle - certainly better value. Sure, it's running costs will go up over the next 5 years, but you'll still be ahead on depreciation etc.

Cheers,
Jon

[scarry]

Larger than what [emoji6], tank size needs to be stated with range and or application or it meaning nothing wouldn't you agree?

No,we will have to agree to disagree [biggrin]

Range is a huge variable,with these types of vehicles,particularly doing what they are designed to do,off roading and towing,often fully loaded,and at other times running unloaded,around town,or whatever.

But I am sure many would agree for general touring,off roading,towing,something like a usable of 130 litres would be fine,at least,many would like 180.

Anyway,each to their own,but for what we do a larger tank(100 to 130litres as an example)would be very convenient,and as I have said before it’s not just point to point travel.

In fact I noticed a huge difference going from the D2 that I could squeeze 95 litres into,to the D4,which has a usable of around 76.Fuel usage for the two vehicles is similar.

With the new Defender I recon the aftermarket guys will be onto this issue pretty quickly and have aftermarket tanks available.Hopefully it’s not to difficult to do.

[Gregz]

Defender 7 - EN - Defender 7 - EN on Vimeo (http://www.vimeopro.com/user98861477/defender-7-en)

Finally some great offroad footage

At 1:43 they have a wheel dangling in the air, but they cut to an aerial shot then back to a point further up the hill, so you don't see it recover from the wheel dangling.... maybe they had a whooops moment?

[blackrangie]

Here we go "bare bones" defender price on the road.

Bare Bones in Australia is certainly not Bare Bones with things like keyless entry, air suspension, offriad tyres, tpms,semi powered front sests, cruise, 360 degree cameras etc.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191022/afbdc10c6a575745cd9c3f3f8288e85c.jpg

[roverrescue]

Nice run sheet BR
$80k is not terrible at all
Is that 5,6 or 7 seats?

Now I’ve been chasing luggage space dimensions
Best I can determine is;
The new Defisco in 5/6 seat config is 1075L
198x-2015 110 Defender 5 seat config was 1380L

I really think the luggage space and fuel capacity will be big ticks against this as a family / touring wagon (that D200 pushing 3.3T trip load ain’t gonna be efficient which ever way you cut)

Steve

[SpudHeadTed]

Here we go "bare bones" defender price on the road.

Bare Bones in Australia is certainly not Bare Bones with things like keyless entry, air suspension, offriad tyres, tpms,semi powered front sests, cruise, 360 degree cameras etc.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191022/afbdc10c6a575745cd9c3f3f8288e85c.jpg

...so, what happened to $70k for the base model? Now it’s $80k?

If they release a commercial 130 at $70-80k with enough options included it will walk out the door. If it’s $100k+ Like Gwagen it will flop.

Having no utilitarian model Defender at a reasonable price point - will kill it in Australia. At $80k+ with luxury car tax at $65k, this also makes a nonsense of Defender as a utilitarian vehicle.

...there are rumours that LCT might be abolished, which would make a difference...maybe by the time the 130 is released.

...and how about this for a bold prediction [bigwhistle] ...by 2025 instead of LCT there will be an incentive payment to all new vehicle buyers of EV’s and PHEV’s.

I’m waiting for the 130 PHEV / EV. Until then I see no reason to upgrade from my awesome classic Defender.

...and it’s very interesting to hear discussion now after the fervour of the new Defender launch, that a D4 is still a better value proposition. I would agree. A classic Defender second hand for $50k is too IMO.

A new 110 would be nice, but at $100k with a few basic options like T2 and accessories, it will be out of most people’s reach. The big winners in the utilitarian 4x4 sector will continue to be the $50k dual cab utes.

Land Rovers line-up of 100% luxury SUV wagons over $80k is very strange in a diverse world.

[CrustyNoodle]

Here we go "bare bones" defender price on the road.

Bare Bones in Australia is certainly not Bare Bones with things like keyless entry, air suspension, offriad tyres, tpms,semi powered front sests, cruise, 360 degree cameras etc.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191022/afbdc10c6a575745cd9c3f3f8288e85c.jpg


Excellent! This is the last piece of the puzzle I needed to be able to work out the full drive away RRP for any specification.

This puts a 110 SE P400 with no options what so ever at $115,510 drive away (+0/-100 due to rego/CTP fluctuations).
And a 110 HSE P400 again with no options at $125,819 drive away (+0/-100)

It will be fairly difficult squeezing too much of a discount out of the stealer for such a new release but under the right conditions I think you should be able to negotiate a 10% to 15% discount, that would put the SE above at ~$102,000 and the HSE at ~$111,700 for a 10% discount - depending on where you apply the discount.

Of course if you were interested in a moderately spec'd HSE (the only variant with Matrix LED's) including the rear locker, tow pack, HUD and privacy glass, you'd be up for $130,551 RRP drive away - that is a lot of coin!

[blackrangie]

No,we will have to agree to disagree [biggrin]

Range is a huge variable,with these types of vehicles,particularly doing what they are designed to do,off roading and towing,often fully loaded,and at other times running unloaded,around town,or whatever.

But I am sure many would agree for general touring,off roading,towing,something like a usable of 130 litres would be fine,at least,many would like 180.

Anyway,each to their own,but for what we do a larger tank(100 to 130litres as an example)would be very convenient,and as I have said before it’s not just point to point travel.

In fact I noticed a huge difference going from the D2 that I could squeeze 95 litres into,to the D4,which has a usable of around 76.Fuel usage for the two vehicles is similar.

With the new Defender I recon the aftermarket guys will be onto this issue pretty quickly and have aftermarket tanks available.Hopefully it’s not to difficult to do.Depends what engine you have and its economy figures

[blackrangie]

Excellent! This is the last piece of the puzzle I needed to be able to work out the full drive away RRP for any specification.

This puts a 110 SE P400 with no options what so ever at $115,510 drive away (+0/-100 due to rego/CTP fluctuations).
And a 110 HSE P400 again with no options at $125,819 drive away (+0/-100)

It will be fairly difficult squeezing too much of a discount out of the stealer for such a new release but under the right conditions I think you should be able to negotiate a 10% to 15% discount, that would put the SE above at ~$102,000 and the HSE at ~$111,700 for a 10% discount - depending on where you apply the discount.

Of course if you were interested in a moderately spec'd HSE (the only variant with Matrix LED's) including the rear locker, tow pack, HUD and privacy glass, you'd be up for $130,551 RRP drive away - that is a lot of coin!A lot of coin compared to what?

[SPROVER]

A lot of coin compared to what?The previous model defender!

[CrustyNoodle]

To explain that a bit and to allow others to do the calcs themselves, the prices posted previously (below) are RRP including GST and LCT. The drive away price adds stealer delivery ($4,000 - yeah right!) rego etc. plus options and whatever extra LCT that adds.

155084

[CrustyNoodle]

A lot of coin compared to what?

... One's retirement investments!

[SpudHeadTed]

Yup so the base model is $80K + ...so all the gumf about New Defender starting at $69,990 is just gumf.

Compared to the many various other choices of 4x4 vehicles well under $80K, $80K is high.

Compared to G Wagen, 70 Series Wagon, 200 Wagon, $80K is reasonable.

$130K? Well if you can afford to pay cash, it doesn't matter what it's compared to. But for most Australians without a business tax deduction on a lease - compared to paying down your mortgage, not paying more interest, etc - $130K is a lot of money for a car, especially in the current fiscal climate; not to mention the climate climate whereby all vehicle manufacturers will be 100% focussed on EV's by 2025.

[blackrangie]

To explain that a bit and to allow others to do the calcs themselves, the prices posted previously (below) are RRP including GST and LCT. The drive away price adds stealer delivery ($4,000 - yeah right!) rego etc. plus options and whatever extra LCT that adds.

155084Rrp's are rrp's with every brand.

[CrustyNoodle]

Rrp's are rrp's with every brand.

Apologies... the emphasis should have been on "includes GST and LCT".

[Gregz]

A lot of coin compared to what?

That Defender HSE is $5k more than a D5 HSE (with SD6 donk). Will be an interesting dilemma for some, I imagine.

[shanegtr]

A lot of coin compared to what?

Compared to the first house I brought for $122k[bighmmm]
I think the price will prove to be too high for significant sales - Just by being a Land Rover it will straight away have a limited appeal to the masses in Australia (IMHO), to then put a price that makes it comparable to a 200 series its not a combination for lots of sales. Just look at the price Nissan had to slash from the Y62 patrol to get sales - had the patrol had a diesel option at its launch then they probably would have sold well at the original prices, but with a petrol only its market appeal is limited. For me as much as I love the look of the 110 defender - its not a vehicle that will suit my needs (that need to be a comfortable 6 seater), I'd have to wait until the 130 version, or look at a Y62 or D5. But that's all if I win lotto ideas, in reality I'll be waiting until they are sub $30,000 on the second hand market before I would even consider looking at one

[blackrangie]

Compared to the first house I brought for $122k[bighmmm]


In what year? [emoji6]

A house in 1980 worth 122k could be worth 750k now easy depending on location, infact using an inflation calc alone 122k would be 520k

There is a thread for pricing, can we keep this thread for general info about defender were possible and within reason.

[blackrangie]

The previous model defender!https://www.aulro.com/afvb/l663-defender/274547-aussie-pricing-post2946387.html

Discussion about that here comparing the defender and the new Defender the price is more than justifiable.

[Tombie]

My first house cost me $100k in 95
Sold for $350k in 2004

My second house cost me $67k in 98
Sold for $137k in 2000

3rd house cost me $156k in 2000
Sold in 2005 for $285k

Current house cost me $150k in 2005
Still living there and valued at $305k
(This one is rural city though)

Good vehicles are “worth” around a years salary.
The new Defender sits there for me.
We’ve decided not to do it though, as you’re all aware.

[blackrangie]

My first house cost me $100k in 95
Sold for $350k in 2004

My second house cost me $67k in 98
Sold for $137k in 2000

3rd house cost me $156k in 2000
Sold in 2005 for $285k

Current house cost me $150k in 2005
Still living there and valued at $305k
(This one is rural city though)

Good vehicles are “worth” around a years salary.
The new Defender sits there for me.
We’ve decided not to do it though, as you’re all aware.Nice work [emoji1417]

[4bee]

But but but, houses Appreciate in value while motor vehicles generally Depreciate IMHO.[bigsad]

[Tombie]

But but but, houses Appreciate in value while motor vehicles generally Depreciate IMHO.[bigsad]

You can’t drive a house...

But you can sleep in a Car [emoji41]

[4bee]

True, or the Alice Road would be chockas with 2 ups & 2 downs or 3 bed bungalows with pool..

Who would one call if your house broke down though, Tombie, the Royal Housing Association?[biggrin]

[DiscoDB]

The Australia market is irrelevant to JLR. The New Defender is all about cracking the US Market where SUV’s sell by the millions.

Jeep have 3 SUV’s in the top 10 in 2018. LR’s best selling SUV was the RR Sport and it did not even get into the top 50 selling less in a year than any of the top Jeep SUV’s sell per month.

JLR are using the Defender legend to re-brand the Discovery to compete with Jeep. The new Discovery made no dent in US sales - but no doubt will get market share in Europe.

In Australia - the New Defender is really only competing with the New Discovery.

[101RRS]

Here we go "bare bones" defender price on the road.

Bare Bones in Australia is certainly not Bare Bones with things like keyless entry, air suspension, offriad tyres, tpms,semi powered front sests, cruise, 360 degree cameras etc.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191022/afbdc10c6a575745cd9c3f3f8288e85c.jpg


There is a thread for pricing, can we keep this thread for general info about defender were possible and within reason.

Well you are the one who brought the issue of pricing into this thread.

You cannot pick and choose what you want discussed.

[scarry]

Depends what engine you have and its economy figures

Not really,extra fuel will be handy no matter what engine is in the vehicle.

Sure petrol will use more,that’s a given.How much more,who knows.

Looking at actual fuel usage for the diesel,that is going on D5 owners reports,that run the same engines,it’s not that frugal,actually similar to D3/4 TDV6.

And the new Defender is heavier and more likely to have accessories hanging off it.

Oh,and by the way,my first house cost $39 000.Maybe I am older than some of you guys.[bigsad]