The New Defender in the flesh

[Jojo]

I got invited by Land Rover to attend the national preview event of the New Defender today, after the first presentation at Frankfurt Motor show in September it is the first New Defender coming to our shores. Sorry, I know
:ttiwwp:
I will do my best to rectify the situation and upload some pics asap.

After a short introduction with some references to the Land Rover history and even a picture of HUE166 the cover was pulled off the truck and we were allowed to touch and check out almost everything.
I left the event with mixed feelings. The vehicle they unveiled and had on display was a 110 'First Edition' and looked actually quite good. As we all know and expected, it has nothing in common with the original, except for the name, some clever design clues and the fact that even the new one has four wheels stretching all the way down to terra firma. To be frank, I was slightly shocked by all the bling and electrics around, despite having seen several screen shots and pics of the vehicle before. The electrics are hopefully not of the old 'Lucas-style'-stuff. And then there is a fair bit of plastic around, for the better and the worse. From underneath the body is almost flat, making it easy to slide over obstacles. As long as these are not too hard as the underbody cover is mostly made of plastic sheets as well.

There is no doubt that LR made a very capable vehicle, with an almost 'go anywhere' capability. It is certainly, in stock standard configuration, more capable than our beloved trucks with modifications. I did enjoy the spaciousness, some well thought after details, the -finally- more than generous roof load and the design clues that are carried over from the original. The build quality seems much better than in days of yonder.
On the down side is, of course, the complexity of the vehicle as such. Questionable field serviceability. What will happen 10 years down the road? Will you still get spares? Unfortunately there is no all-electric drivetrain choice, which I personally regard as a pity. If LR is going all the way to design and build a brand new vehicle they should have gone all the way and included such an option.
The charm of the original Defender was, of course, its simplicity and even partly due to the fact that it was an utility vehicle that even could be used for everyday purposes. The New Defender is most definitely not an utility vehicle anymore, but a modern people mover with, albeit extraordinary, offroad capability.

Do I want one? Well, I am impressed by its abilities and capabilities as well as smart solutions, less so by the flashy appeal and plasticky feel and the fact that electric drive is not even an option. If I can have it as a company car, it might be an option, but buying one with my private cash, no way. I am curious to see the proposed commercial version, with hopefully less bling and a more 'down-to-Earth' approach.
My better half commented we should have bought the old 107 we saw at an auction some months ago instead...

[DiscoMick]

Very interesting. Thanks for sharing your impressions.
So the one you saw was fully optioned, not a $70k basic model?

[Jojo]

Very interesting. Thanks for sharing your impressions.
So the one you saw was fully optioned, not a $70k basic model?

Yep, it was a fully equipped 'First Edition' on display yesterday, which even tops the already generously equipped HSE-choice with even more bells and whistles. Most of which I have no need for, except for some really smart solutions. With the tires and rims fitted to the display vehicle I personally would not dare to venture too far off the road.
At the Frankfurt event there was an utility version (in 'Wilks Brothers'-livery[smilebigeye]), but I have yet to see one in real. Might be worth waiting for.

[roverrescue]

Jojo
What Was your impression of the rear load space with 2nd row in use ?

By the numbers it appears smaller than a D2
Only slightly more than a D1 which is actually pretty useless for a full size wagon

BUT Ill be happy if the statistics don’t match the flesh

Steve

[101RRS]

This may be relevant

YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKBBEivMsMo&t=217s)

[Jojo]

Didn't I start a new thread yesterday? Me thinks I did... Now it's gone. Yes, they served complimentary drinks at the ceremony, but I didn't touch any alcoholic beverages as I had to drive home afterwards[smilebigeye]. So here we go again:

The New Defender
I got invited by Land Rover to attend the national preview event of the New Defender today, after the first presentation at Frankfurt Motor show in September it is the first New Defender coming to our shores. Sorry, I know
:ttiwwp:
I will do my best to rectify the situation and upload some pics asap.

After a short introduction with some references to the Land Rover history and even a picture of HUE166 the cover was pulled off the truck and we were allowed to touch and check out almost everything.
I left the event with mixed feelings. The vehicle they unveiled and had on display was a 110 'First Edition' and looked actually quite good. As we all know and expected, it has nothing in common with the original, except for the name, some clever design clues and the fact that even the new one has four wheels stretching all the way down to terra firma. To be frank, I was slightly shocked by all the bling and electrics around, despite having seen several screen shots and pics of the vehicle before. The electrics are hopefully not of the old 'Lucas-style'-stuff. And then there is a fair bit of plastic around, for the better and the worse. From underneath the body is almost flat, making it easy to slide over obstacles. As long as these are not too hard as the underbody cover is mostly made of plastic sheets as well.

There is no doubt that LR made a very capable vehicle, with an almost 'go anywhere' capability. It is certainly, in stock standard configuration, more capable than our beloved trucks with modifications. I did enjoy the spaciousness, some well thought after details, the -finally- more than generous roof load and the design clues that are carried over from the original. The build quality seems much better than in days of yonder.
On the down side is, of course, the complexity of the vehicle as such. Questionable field serviceability. What will happen 10 years down the road? Will you still get spares? Unfortunately there is no all-electric drivetrain choice, which I personally regard as a pity. If LR is going all the way to design and build a brand new vehicle they should have gone all the way and included such an option.
The charm of the original Defender was, of course, its simplicity and even partly due to the fact that it was an utility vehicle that even could be used for everyday purposes. The New Defender is most definitely not an utility vehicle anymore, but a modern people mover with, albeit extraordinary, offroad capability.

Do I want one? Well, I am impressed by its abilities and capabilities as well as smart solutions, less so by the flashy appeal and plasticky feel and the fact that electric drive is not even an option. If I can have it as a company car, it might be an option, but buying one with my private cash, no way. I am curious to see the proposed commercial version, with hopefully less bling and a more 'down-to-Earth' approach.
My better half commented we should have bought the old 107 we saw at an auction some months ago instead...

[Jojo]

Pics of the event. Sorry about the quality, I was using a Land Rover phone... [bigsmile1]

[EastFreo]

Thanks for the post. Really look forward to seeing it in the flesh.

Cant wait for the commercial version as we are waiting for the 130 for the farm (or just my personal use).

Your comments about the electronics is something pretty raw for me.

this week I had hoped I could persuade my wife she should have a new Disco. Went for a test drive of a highly specced up Disco (literally over $140k) and the cameras didn’t work! It was enough for my wife to flick to a new Toyota Sahara as this April we go to Dirk Hartog island and in July we go to see my sister on a station in the Woomera Ranges so we need reliability. My wife had also recently heard from two friends how their Discos had stopped in Perth and this killed it for her - especially when the salesman said maybe all it needed was an upload over the net to cure the problem. Trouble is, as my wife said straight away, all we get via satellite NBN on the farm is 60GB a month so how much would go on the new Disco!

anyway I now feel pretty conflicted. Wife is happy for me to look to the 130 but in next 14 days we will have a new Toyota in rye drive wat. LR does need to step up. I saying that I still want the new Defender but will never sell my 110.

[Jojo]

Jojo
What Was your impression of the rear load space with 2nd row in use ?

By the numbers it appears smaller than a D2
Only slightly more than a D1 which is actually pretty useless for a full size wagon

BUT Ill be happy if the statistics don’t match the flesh

Steve

With reservation for the fact I didn't have a measuring tape at hand and didn't pay too much attention I would say the load space with 2nd row seats up is about D1-size, so with all seats occupied only hand bag sized luggage is allowed, unless there are more stowage compartments I have not detected yet (I think there are some) or the roof rack will be put in use.
I did not have that much time for a complete check of the vehicle as there were plenty of people wanting to do much the same, but I have been promised a private and customised 'guided tour' of the New Defender as soon as LR has more demonstrators available, so if anyone of you is having any questions, please post/PM and I will enquire accordingly.

[zilch]

I wonder if we will see a reveal day anytime soon in Australia.. had a P400 on order since November,
but as yet no build date..

[scarry]

With reservation for the fact I didn't have a measuring tape at hand and didn't pay too much attention I would say the load space with 2nd row seats up is about D1-size, so with all seats occupied only hand bag sized luggage is allowed, unless there are more stowage compartments I have not detected yet (I think there are some) or the roof rack will be put in use.
I did not have that much time for a complete check of the vehicle as there were plenty of people wanting to do much the same, but I have been promised a private and customised 'guided tour' of the New Defender as soon as LR has more demonstrators available, so if anyone of you is having any questions, please post/PM and I will enquire accordingly.

Hopeless as a tourer with that kind of room,many got rid of their D1 as not enough room in the rear.
It wouldn't suit us,and we don't take the kitchen sink with us when travelling,been travelling for years,and actually travel as light as possible.
Having a small fuel tank doesn't help the issue either,although the aftermarket guys may sort that issue out,hopefully.

The 130 should address this issue, no doubt at quite an increased cost over the 110.[bigsad]

[Jojo]

Hopeless as a tourer with that kind of room,many got rid of their D1 as not enough room in the rear.
It wouldn't suit us,and we don't take the kitchen sink with us when travelling,been travelling for years,and actually travel as light as possible.
Having a small fuel tank doesn't help the issue either,although the aftermarket guys may sort that issue out,hopefully.

The 130 should address this issue, no doubt at quite an increased cost over the 110.[bigsad]

Should work if you don't need the 2nd row seats, though. Have yet to see a 130 to come at some point.

[Rovingwill]

I think the rear cargo is a fair bit bigger than D1, specs say the floor length is 919 mm about 200 mm less than D3/4, D5. I reckon my D1 was 600 to 700 mm could only fit a fridge sideways. I think you could fit a 40/50 litre fridge and draw system but it would be tight. The other problem is width of rear door opening, the only spec I have seen is Upper 898, lower 953 which don’t make sense as it looks like from pictures the upper is wider than the lower maybe should the other way around but still narrow compared to 1150 mm of D5, these specs came from a Land Rover site.

People keep talking about the 130 but I see a few issues

1/ Probably weight another 100 or more Kgs so will need 6 to power it (if they ever do release a diesel) add $10,000 and add $10,000 for increase from 110 to 130 maybe more if extra seats are standard. Means a SE spec would be over $120,000 OR compared to 240 D SE at about $100,000 that’s getting expensive.

2/ Cargo area could be further compromise catering for 3rd row seats, air conditioning units, storage compartments and spare winder if spare underneath.

[scarry]

I think the rear cargo is a fair bit bigger than D1, specs say the floor length is 919 mm about 200 mm less than D3/4, D5. I reckon my D1 was 600 to 700 mm could only fit a fridge sideways. I think you could fit a 40/50 litre fridge and draw system but it would be tight. The other problem is width of rear door opening, the only spec I have seen is Upper 898, lower 953 which don’t make sense as it looks like from pictures the upper is wider than the lower maybe should the other way around but still narrow compared to 1150 mm of D5, these specs came from a Land Rover site.

People keep talking about the 130 but I see a few issues

1/ Probably weight another 100 or more Kgs so will need 6 to power it (if they ever do release a diesel) add $10,000 and add $10,000 for increase from 110 to 130 maybe more if extra seats are standard. Means a SE spec would be over $120,000 OR compared to 240 D SE at about $100,000 that’s getting expensive.

2/ Cargo area could be further compromise catering for 3rd row seats, air conditioning units, storage compartments and spare winder if spare underneath.

Cargo area behind D1 is around 850mm floor length so not far off new 110,and is taller.
D2 was 150 mm longer and similar height to D1.
Both those vehicles also had seats in the rear area if they were 7 seaters that also took up room,they didn’t fold into the floor like D3/4.

Yer,the 130 and a descent sized diesel is going to be pretty expensive.[bigsad]
The larger diesel in the D5 adds around $9 to $10K.

[roverrescue]

Its hard to get a standardized measurement on luggage volume
But as best as I can establish:

D2 (to 2nd row 5 seat model) 1146L
D4 (to 2nd row rear seats down) 1124L
D5 (to 2nd row rear seats down) 1137L
New Defender (to 2nd row 5 seat model) 962L (7 seat model is even less)

200 series (to 2nd row rear seats down) 1276L
Y62 Nissan (to 2nd row rear seats down) 1490L

Im sorry but that puts the new 110 way down on the useful size for a tourer list.
It is a mid size SUV by those numbers
and I just cant see how that is going to work well in Aus or US markets.


S

[Gregz]

Its hard to get a standardized measurement on luggage volume
But as best as I can establish:

D2 (to 2nd row 5 seat model) 1146L
D4 (to 2nd row rear seats down) 1124L
D5 (to 2nd row rear seats down) 1137L
New Defender (to 2nd row 5 seat model) 962L (7 seat model is even less)

200 series (to 2nd row rear seats down) 1276L
Y62 Nissan (to 2nd row rear seats down) 1490L

Im sorry but that puts the new 110 way down on the useful size for a tourer list.
It is a mid size SUV by those numbers
and I just cant see how that is going to work well in Aus or US markets.


S

From the press pack, it shows new defender loadspace as 1075 in 5 seater. (916 in 7 seater)
... still not great, but not as bad as say L405 (full fat RR ) is 909L and RRS is even less at 784.
Agree not great for touring if you have people in the 2nd row.
If you look at the seats folded numbers however, its a little closer comparison for the defender, at 2380 vs 2406 for D5 and 2470 for D4.
I think if you want to do touring with 4 passengers you might want to wait for the 130, or stick with the D4/D5.

[scarry]

I think if you want to do touring with 4 passengers you might want to wait for the 130, or stick with the D4/D5.

Or move on to one of the last two on roverrescue’s list....

Even the LC76 has a huge amount of room,particularly width,maybe even more than D4 although I haven’t measured one.

[roverrescue]

Volumes I guess can be a little spurious but I took my numbers for JLR products from their offical website specifications?

I honestly believe that vehicle size/volume is more of a determinant than off-road
Capability

For a family wagon the new defender (110) just isn’t going to impress anyone other retiree tourers

S

[Red90]

Its hard to get a standardized measurement on luggage volume
But as best as I can establish:

D2 (to 2nd row 5 seat model) 1146L
D4 (to 2nd row rear seats down) 1124L
D5 (to 2nd row rear seats down) 1137L
New Defender (to 2nd row 5 seat model) 962L (7 seat model is even less)

200 series (to 2nd row rear seats down) 1276L
Y62 Nissan (to 2nd row rear seats down) 1490L


Old Defender 110... 1600 liters.

[Gregz]

Old Defender 110... 1600 liters.

Which goes to show how things have changed, not necessarily for the better. The new D is over 9 inches longer (5018 vs 4785) and a foot wider ( 2105 vs 1790) than the old D , yet somehow they manage to achieve over 500 litres less cargo space behind the 2nd row seats in the new D. :Thump:

[Captain_Rightfoot]

I'm sure it's all been discussed a million times. I bought my defender new and still have it. Perhaps I would have considered the new one.. alas with just getting a few basic options it looks like it will be in the mid 80's. And even then it's probably not a full replacement in many ways for our current one. Oh well.

Maybe they might do a utility one if this one doesn't sell.

[DiscoMick]

Probably by increasing the rear seat legroom, which is cramped in the 110.

[scarry]

For a family wagon the new defender (110) just isn’t going to impress anyone other retiree tourers

S

Definitely not going to impress them either if they are coming from a huge and powerful LC200 or Y62.Even a GU or 100 series are a lot larger.

Or a D3/4 for that matter.......

Might be OK if they are moving up from a RAV or Subaru wagon[bighmmm]

[DiscoMick]

That's okay, the dinosaurs are on borrowed time. Governments are applying emissions and fuel economy rules which mean the manufacturers get fined if their ranges don't meet average rules. To avoid the fines they have to replace their thirsty dinosaurs with smaller, more efficient engines. So the V8s will die off and be replaced by twin turbo fours and the like. Then they will all be replaced by electric vehicles. That's the future.