I finally did it. New MY02 Vogue owner

[4X4V8]

For those of you who've been on this forum for some time, you'll know that I have peered over the fence at P38A ownership and even sat on the fence a few times, but never actually took the jump into the garden (or is that cesspool?[bigsmile1]) and actually bought one.

Well finally (finally!) I bought an ex-NZ (private import) MY02 Vogue today.

It needs some work in the usual places: book symbol on HVAC (although blend motors appeared to do their job), sitting a little high on airbags up front and EAS compressor seems to cut in a bit much (although the suspension seems to rise and drop okay) and driver's window reg is playing up. It's a bit untidy here and there cosmetically but has good bones. No hesitation or misfire on cold start suggesting a slipped liner, nothing unusual about engine oil or coolant.

It was funny to go see it, with some background knowledge (albeit no practical repair knowledge) of what to look for in a P38A after the many, many times I have. I was a bit wierd for me to go look at a P38A for sale and actually buy it[tonguewink]

I am more confident about working on the tools than I was six years ago, and the buy-in now is far less that it was then. This time it feels like 'what have I got to lose' if it all goes to hell where as last time the $ investment was such (to me, anyway) that I already had the answer -- a lot!

Anyway I'm really looking forward to having a play with my new RR when I pick it up next week. So much actual hands-on repairs etc to get stuck into and RR-(LR) specific things to learn. Torx head you say? Isn't that a Swedish rock band? [bigsmile1]

I will refrain from asking questions about maintenance etc unless I can't find it in a search. There has been so much written about the P38A, the fixes etc here that I shouldn't really need to ask. Some things that I just don't get or where it isn't going to plan, I will be asking... I hope there are enough of you knowledgeable types on the forum left to answer!

The first step after getting it home is to do a full service (oils, filters, maybe brake fluid and anything else that doesn't look like it has been replaced recently like radiator hoses, checking vacuum hoses - eg one I saw at the CC diaphram is cracked). The car has been sitting for about three months and has done about 40,000km only in the last 9 years. Odo is on 139,000km - fairly low.

The temptation is to go nuts and just replace everything that moves but I want keep my priorities right. First get some fresh oils and filters into it, inspect it carefully and drive it some and work out priorities from there.

Then the bigger jobs: buying an appropriate scanning tool and working out what is going on with the EAS and the HVAC. Also will need new tyres very soon... am a bit shocked to see how expensive decent 18in A/T rubber is... oh well.

Anyway, thanks for having me back!

[Saulman1010]

Photo's! we must have photos of all new toys :-)

[PeterH]

Congrats on the new beast!
I have an 01 model myself, have had it for 10 years now, hard to believe it's 10 years already.
I've done a lot of the typical jobs (o rings, blend motors, EAS, etc) for a third time now, which does make it much easier as you know exaclty what you are doing.
If I can make a couple of suggestions, if it were me, I'd just drive it as it is for a week or two, to get a mental baseline on how it sounds, behaves etc.
That way when you do start changing oils and fluids and other things, you will have a good handle on any changes you have made.
Yes definitley get a diagnostic tool of some type, that is a must, specially with a new (to you) P38.
I'd be arranging that as a first step now, as well as a rave manual if you don't have one already.
When you do a fault code read, take notes of any faults and then clear the fault codes, as they could be historical faults no longer present.
Then give it a drive and read the codes again to see what pops up, then you know what to start looking for.
Brake fluid is quite a process on the P38, so tackle that one when you have plenty of time to spare!
They are so great to drive, you will love it, hard to drive anything else after a P38, unless you go to a L322!
They do require maintenance, but if you keep on top of that, I have found mine to be very reliable generally speaking.
Good luck with the new one, hope you enjoy the P38 experience!

[4X4V8]

Thanks guys, it feels good to have finally taken the plunge.

No pics yet -- I pick it up in a few days.

Peter H -- thanks very much for the advice. I have been trying to gain perspective on how to tackle this 'project' and I think you nailed it.

There was (I think?) a very good guide, maybe on rangeroversnet that walked you through the process of new P38A ownership -- ie what the priorities are, whay you should buy. Things like an EAS emergency valve block (I am not describing that well at all. It's to isolate or by-pass airlines so you don't have to drive home on bump stops if there's a fault) I can't find any of that now.

I usually want my 'new' cars better than new the day before yesterday, so this time I am really trying to be patient.

I have a diagnostic tool lined up (either a used Hawkeye or I'll go for the EAS Unlock V4).

Tyres are barely legal so that will be no 1 thing to do, esp with current rotten wet weather (rotton for driving or working on cars). The problem is that a lot of paint has lifted off the Hurricane alloys so I have to decide whether to buy a set of used Comets (my fave P38A alloy) that have some decent tyres that'll do for now or just get new cheap H/T tyres for the Hurricanes now and repaint the wheels later. I don't want to jump in the first week of ownership with a set of new $1200 A/Ts, but neither do I want to be slipping and sliding on the old tyres on now. Decisions, decisions...

Next is to degrease the engine bay and underneath and give it a good clean inside and out.

I've noticed the spares landscape in Sydney has changed a bit since 2015 (last time I looked into P38A ownership).

My plan is to go through everything and have a close to standard tidy P38A that I can tow a caravan anywhere with as required.

[Grumbles]

[QUOTE=4X4V8;2972186]
The temptation is to go nuts and just replace everything that moves but I want keep my priorities right. First get some fresh oils and filters into it, inspect it carefully and drive it some and work out priorities from there.

[/QUOTE
I like your choice of Rangie. [biggrin]

As a priority I'd be looking for the proper operation of the radiator cooling fan viscous hub and fitting a new water pump. Either of these two things failing will be terminal for a P38 engine.

[PeterH]

Yes, tyres and a wheel alignment sound like the most sensible first step.
It's really up to how much you want to spend, but if the current rims are looking a bit worse for wear and you really like the comets, you could certainly put your stamp on the vehicle. If you put new tyres on the current rims you will want to get the value out of them, so they would be staying on for a while.
If it were me, I'd probably do the following jobs:
1/ Pollen filters, they are very easy to do and are often neglected.
2/ Have a look at the plennum filter too, between the windsceen and the bonnet, that is often perished and needs replacing.
3/ Next up I'd do the oil and filter change, which is pretty straight forward.
4/ Then I'd change the diff oil front and rear, again, pretty straight forward, you just need a hand pump to get the new oil up and into the diff.
5/ Next I'd probably do a transmission service, so drain the fluid, take off the casing, new filter, new fluid.
6/ While under there anyway I'd also change the transfer case fluid.
7/ Grease the drive line uni joints
8/ Replace the power steering fluid
9/ Coolant flush and replace, give the radiator a flush out, possibly a new thermostat as well if you don't know how old the current one is.
10/ Check brake pads and rotors for wear and repace if needed
11/ Brake fluid bleed, (a bit time consuming on a P38)

There you go, that will keep you busy for a while!
It's nice to know everything has been done.
Others might add to this list, but that's certainly a good start!
Hope that is of some help.

[4X4V8]

Thanks again Peter -- I'm actually going to cut/paste your list and stick it in a word doc and print it out. I'll tick off as I go. Gives the work to be done a sense of order.

One area I don't want to leave for very long is the cooling system. Parts are cheap enough to replace just about everything in the system, and most of it is simple to do (heater core? Hmm, except that). Thanks Grumbles for reminding me how much I don't want the cooling system to let go.

I''m going to get RAVE too, but looking at if I can run it on a Macbook. If not I have an old Windows XP laptop to run it on.

I did notice the plenum filter was falling apart. Lots of leaves around the edges of the bonnet and in the lower front guards and no doubt the pollen filters are shot. It might be why it has the book icon.

Actually once I get the car the first thing I'll do is get diagnostics software so that I can capture/clear codes.

So much DIY P38A stuff on YouTube. The missing pixels on the HVAC screen I now know how to fix. I have done auto trans fluid/filter changes on other vehicles but the P38A procedure looks easier.

There were some videos on dual exhaust systems. I didn't know there was an OEM set-up. Did Aus ever get it? I like the idea of a subtle dual system... but I am getting ahead of myself.

[PeterH]

Over time I have replaced all the coolant hoses, water pump, radiator (twice), expansion tank (twice), thermostat (twice).
There is a thin black hose that runs from the top of the radiator, around the battery and into the expansion tank, you may want to replace that too, they become brittle over time and can break easily when you try to remove them.
I haven't read much about the heater core needing to be replaced, they seem to be pretty hardy, although having said that, I did have one fail on me once.
One thing you might want to get is a proper hose clamp tool for the spring clamps, they make life so much easier when replacing hoses.

I guess a good way to look at it, is eveything you replace, is taking potential worn points out of the system, the theory being you will have much less chance of breaking down at some very inconvenient moment!
P38's do respond very well to a bit of TLC, there is also some confidence in the vehicle that comes with having everything in good shape.
I also get a real sense of satisfaction having done it all myself, you know it's done and done properly.
When it's your own vehicle, you are naturally going to make sure it's all properly done.

Don't let all this info overwhelm you, just do one thing at a time and most importantly enjoy the superb ride!
I live in Melbourne, so I tend to do most of the work during the warmer months, so it's all good through winter.
Not much fun crawling under cars when it's freezing cold.

[4X4V8]

Peter I used to own an XJ Cherokee that like the P38 has a bad rep for reliability. Like the P38 I’m buying it had low Kay’s but was a bit neglected. I went through everything, replaced almost all the cooling system, the sensors known for playing up etc and went on to tow with it, did a lot of big trips towing a caravan, maybe 15,000km in total and never a single problem. Service parts for the P38 are mostly cheap, so I see it as preventative maintenance to replace parts that appear to have some life left in them. That’s my only worry - making sure what I buy does the job. Lots of cheap radiators around for example.

[bblaze]

roverlord off road spares on the forum is the go to for quality, price and extremely good service. Mario and Heather, couldnt find more helpful suppliers
cheers
blaze

[prelude]

Welcome to the club mate!

Apart from some niggles I have been very happy with my P38. I See some people have already put up a list of things to do / check in order.

Parts are indeed cheap but I find that they are starting to dry up a bit in my neck of the woods. For instance a proper wheel bearing (from skf) has more than doubled in price in a years time so I guess stock is getting low and no new production is planned. Also the VCU is no longer available.

What kind of driving are you going to do with the car? 18" wheels I read so I reckon no heavy bush bashing?

Anyway, keep us posted :)

Cheers,
-P

[4X4V8]

Welcome to the club mate!

Apart from some niggles I have been very happy with my P38. I See some people have already put up a list of things to do / check in order.

Parts are indeed cheap but I find that they are starting to dry up a bit in my neck of the woods. For instance a proper wheel bearing (from skf) has more than doubled in price in a years time so I guess stock is getting low and no new production is planned. Also the VCU is no longer available.

What kind of driving are you going to do with the car? 18" wheels I read so I reckon no heavy bush bashing?

Anyway, keep us posted :)

Cheers,
-P

When I said parts are cheap, what I meant was maybe some of them are too cheap. Things like $150 radiators and $70 airbags... well maybe they are just fantastic quality but I have my doubts. I don't mean I will not buy anything but genuine OEM LR parts, but there must be a middle ground. I will be asking for recommendations when I get to items such as the above.

I think this RR is too good to modify. No hard-core off-roading for this RR, only some light trail work and some towing.

Off to pick it up this morning, then probably to TR spares with a shopping list of parts. Assume Mahle filters are either OEM or OEM quaity? A brand I've heard of for many years anyway.

[4X4V8]

A bittersweet day. Went and picked up and registered the Vogue, it's a good one, I think. Plenty of relatively small stuff to do though to bring it back.

Got home to the news that my oldest friend passed away a couple days ago. Knew him for 48 years.
This vehicle might end up being a good distraction for me. Feeling pretty bloody sad.

[prelude]

Mate, I am sorry to hear that...

Perhaps the P38 will distract, or it will give you a lot of time to think.

I wish you well.
-P

[TheTree]

Hi

Welcome to the madness, great that it's a good one

My condolences on the death of your friend :(

Steve

[4X4V8]

Thank-you gentlemen. I didn't mean to blab that, I guess I was in a bit of shock.

Had to do a fair bit of running around today but got a start with job 1 on the P38 - replacing the horns.

Discovered they didn't work after getting rego done at a Service NSW on the northern beaches. A woman reversed out of her park without even a glance. I was madly thumping at the steering wheel. It was close. I got a nasty glare from the touch-parking sensors woman as she drove away. She mustn't like Range Rovers...

I am not the best at electrics but I think I did okay troubleshooting. I could hear the horn relay clicking while pressing the horn pad. When trying to confirm 12v was getting to the horns without a helper, I blew the horn fuse. Not the way it should be done, I know, but it was a test result!. Also checked for resistance on the horn pins, both are open circuits

The driver's side horn is a pain to remove but it can be done by unbolting it from the bracket and wriggling it out next to the washer bottle tube, after having removed the battery cover. No good if you've got dinner-plate size hands though...

I thought I'd try to get it out via the grille but of course, no access there. At least I know how the grille comes off now :) I also know I really want to get rid of the RR accessory 'bull bar'; aside from being quite sun-damaged on top and bent from a PO's touch parking effort (I assume) it makes getting the grille out almost impossible, and I don't think the headlights are going anywhere untill the bullbar is off. Not that I plan to rip parts off the front for the hell of it, just it'll be easier without the tired-looking old bar on there.

I have read a thread on here about fitting a dual exhaust system on the P38 (std in the UK for later models) and I see that the mild steel aftermarket rear dual pipes/mufflers are fairly cheap out of the UK (about $300 landed). I'm tempted to give it a try, as I would like a bit of a note from the 4.6 without it being too noisy and while still looking factory (well, it is, in a sense). The LH exhaust hanger tang is already in place so it looks like an easy fitment (I'd need an extra hanger of course). Then again, I could spend $300 more wisely. Anyone here given this a go?

[prelude]

iirc the grill needs to come out to remove the headlights. It is a very easy job but not sure how the bar would get in the way but I guess it should be possible to reach the lower screws (on the sides) with on of those stubby screwdrivers?

Anyway, removing the bar mean you need a new bumper I should think. I never saw one up close but the mounting of the A bar has to go through the bumper somewhere.

About the exhaust: Mine has the entire system replaced by a stainless steel version from behind the Y pipe. It makes for a nice deep tone which is hardly noticeable inside the vehicle and is not a loud screamer on the outside (unless you floor it to the rev limiter). I like how it never needs replacing again. It would be sligthly more than $300 I think, not sure what they charge you for that over there.
If you are bent on having the original exhaust you might find a second muffler and fix up a piece of piping yourself. Should be no more than an afternoons fabrication :)

The "fuse" detector is a tried and tested method! [bigwhistle]

Cheers,
-P

[4X4V8]

iirc the grill needs to come out to remove the headlights. It is a very easy job but not sure how the bar would get in the way but I guess it should be possible to reach the lower screws (on the sides) with on of those stubby screwdrivers?
-P

I tried that, but the screws are recessed too much for the stubby screwdriver I have and the verticals of the centre section of the bullbar are right in the way of the screws for anything longer. I ended up using a long philips head bit and a 8mm ring spanner.

Fun and games today as I continued re-spraying the Hurricane alloys, which look like they have been done before, as the paint was flaking off. I've discovered the rear pads were down to the backing plate on one of the pads, the rest not far behind. Also found that one of the caliper slider pins' thread was stripped, so hopefully Graeme Coopers will have a replacement tomorrow (or a kit). A bit slack that a mechanic just shoved a fine thread bolt in there hope it'd hold. It did, but a bit bodgy. I hope that's not a continuing theme in this car, but I'm glad I decided to go though everything before driving it.

[Scouse]

The dual exhaust was only done to reduce the noise levels - it is quieter than the local spec as it has 2 resonators fitted.
My German spec diesel had one fitted but I replaced it with a normal single tailpipe. The old pipe/s are still floating around here somewhere. Before forking out big $, try replacing the current rear resonator with a straight through pipe section. It makes the V8 a bit throatier without becoming too noisy.

The nudge bar is bolted to the bumper. The whole assembly comes off in 2min.


Add water leaks to your list too. Water leaks from the cabin filter area & can drip into various electrical parts.

[4X4V8]

The dual exhaust was only done to reduce the noise levels - it is quieter than the local spec as it has 2 resonators fitted.
My German spec diesel had one fitted but I replaced it with a normal single tailpipe. The old pipe/s are still floating around here somewhere. Before forking out big $, try replacing the current rear resonator with a straight through pipe section. It makes the V8 a bit throatier without becoming too noisy.

The nudge bar is bolted to the bumper. The whole assembly comes off in 2min.


Add water leaks to your list too. Water leaks from the cabin filter area & can drip into various electrical parts.
That makes sense re: the dual exhuast set up - thanks Scouse. And therefore makes no sense me doing it. Exhaust is for later really anyway. I should really focus on the basic stuff first.

I will take off the nudge bar wings to start with and see how it looks. It seems the bolts for the wings are hidden behind finsihing caps on the nudge bar, so should look okay with them off. I suspect Land Rover offered both nudgebar and bullbar in the acessories catelogue back in the day. A kind-of modular approach. Certainly cheaper to make than two distinct bars.

Funny you should mention water leaks -- water was pooling in the left footwell on the way home from picking it up (in dry weather). Turning off the a/c helped. I blew some compressed air though the drain tubes from inside the car and that seems to have fixed it. Perhaps I should have siliconed around all the retaining clips when I removed the plenum cover. Anyway, I'll see if it leaks when wet and go from there.

So many P38 haters out there -- or at least those who think it is an incredibly difficult car to keep on the road. Maybe I am being too much of an optimist, but it seems once I have got al the basic maintenance in order and worked though the known fault points (EAS, HVAC) then hopefully it'll be smooth sailing with this car.

[prelude]

I am still hunting for the leak that fills up my fans and eventually footwells. The pollen filters get absolutely soaked so it has to come in over them somehow, or it soaks up into the bloody things. I removed and carefully sealed the entire housing and cover. The only thing I can think of it water flowing of the windshield and down the cover. Since the car sits at an angle a lot of the time the water runs down the underside of the cover somehow and drips on the pollen filter and so on. Those leaks are the only two things that I can't really get my head around yet.

Other than that, my experience has been that most neglected maintenance, once taken care of, does not return quickly so yeah. They are not that hard to keep on the road IMHO. I have been chewing through wheel bearings on the front right though, not sure why that is... Probably crappy britpart bearings. Other than that, I have rarely had to replace the same part yet since my ownership of the vehicle (5 years now). On the other hand, "learning fees" in the form of rebuilding the valve block several times are not included in this list :) But that is just user error!

Cheers,
-P

[DiscoMick]

Probably wrong, but could your windscreen be leaking?

[4X4V8]

I took the ragged old front bullbar off -- pretty easy job -- and the RR looks much better. The rubber was crumbling on the bar and the PO had caught the left corner on something so it was bent.

I'm finding used P38 parts hard to come by anywhere near Sydney. I don't need anything urgently, but wouldn't mind finding a good beige parcel shelf and as the front bar has a knock in it (tried the boiling water method to remove the deep 'dent' in the plastic, no luck), a good used bar.

The front left guard has a few sizble dents in it too and while I'll probably get it fixed by a panel beater who will charge a lot for a terrible job, it would be nice to find a good, straight and shiny Olso Blue guard to bolt straight on. It might be a candidate for PDR, but I think it's too big a dent for that. And it's aluminium -- harder to PDR apparently.

On UK-based Facebook RR P38 groups I've found exactly what I need, but of course the killer is shipping for parts so large.

It's a waiting game I suppose - something will turn up.

[prelude]

@discomick The windshield itself is not cracked so I would not expect the glass to be leaking. The seal however is a different story. I have had the headliner and sunvisors wet so the seal at the top of the windshield is definitely suspect. I can see some water running down on the inside at times but it is really minimal. It can't account for the drowned fan (I can hear the water slush inside after long and heavy rain.) My center cover underneath the windshield (forgot the english name for that...) is completely gone though. I do not mind cleaning it out every now and then but perhaps the filter that was there limited water ingress and seeping? It is the only thing I can think of after trying all other things...

@4x4V8 I have not looked for secondhand parts recently in my area (close to the UK :) ) but if I look at second hand prices I really bought mine at the absolute bottom back in 2015. I personally think the P38 is well on it's way to become the next range rover classic. Perhaps not as popular but certainly a "classic" in itself! Hopefully you can find a good spare part or two laying around. Worst case you can always respray into the correct colour?

Cheers,
-P

[DiscoMick]

Sounds like a new windscreen would be a good idea. Ask for extra sealant around it as you have a water leak.

[Scouse]

the front bar has a knock in it (tried the boiling water method to remove the deep 'dent' in the plastic, no luck), a good used bar.

The front bumper on the local spec Vogue had colour coded sections - does your have this?

[4X4V8]

Yes it is partly painted body colour so I’ll most likely have to paint the new bar. Anyone know what else Vogue has over HSE? Mind you, mine is NZ-spec so might not be relevant.

[Hoges]

I am still hunting for the leak that fills up my fans and eventually footwells. The pollen filters get absolutely soaked so it has to come in over them somehow, or it soaks up into the bloody things. I removed and carefully sealed the entire housing and cover. The only thing I can think of it water flowing of the windshield and down the cover. Since the car sits at an angle a lot of the time the water runs down the underside of the cover somehow and drips on the pollen filter and so on. Those leaks are the only two things that I can't really get my head around yet.
Cheers,
-P

Before worrying about the windscreen... a common cause for water leaking into the footwell is due to blocked drain tubes. The tubes run down each side of the transmission tunnel behind the carpet and exit under the floor through the tunnel wall beside the transmission. The tubes can become blocked ... a stiff cable tie or narrow gauge wire rounded at the top to minimise puncturing the tube are inserted from underneath .... the external ends of the tubes may need to be trimmed slightly to let water out. Do a search here on water in P38 footwell. Hope this helps!
Cheers