Spotlight

[Maggot4x4]

2c an hour offer slammed
From: By Brad Norington http://network.news.com.au/images/h14_theaustralian.gif
May 25, 2006
A MOVE by big fabric retailer Spotlight to offer new employees just 2c an hour extra in return for eliminating overtime, penalty rates, public holidays and other conditions has been endorsed by the Howard Government.
Unions estimate workers who accept jobs with Spotlight will lose up to $90 a week compared with serving employees, and say the offer is "a disgrace".
But Workplace Relations Minister Kevin Andrews confirmed last night that the company was simply following the Government's own example: of a fictitious character called Billy who appears in an information booklet on new workplace laws.
A spokesman for Mr Andrews said Spotlight - which employs 5000 people nationally - was legally entitled to offer jobs that traded off many conditions under the Government's Work Choices laws.
He said workers could not be forced to accept Spotlight's non-union individual contracts, but added: "It's up to you - if you want to get a foothold in the industry you may want to take the job."
The example of Billy was provided by the Government as a case of how an employer could eliminate penalty rates, overtime, leave loadings, bonuses, rest breaks and paid public holidays for new employees. Billy accepted a job with a Canberra clothing retailer and received the minimum hourly pay rate, no matter how many hours he worked.

At Spotlight, the minimum hourly award rate is $14.28, and serving employees get paid overtime and penalty rates of time-and-a-half and double-time if they work Thursday nights, weekends and public holidays.
New employers would get paid $14.30 an hour for all hours worked and would not get other entitlements including shift loadings, rest breaks, bonuses, incentive payments and annual leave loadings.
Spotlight last night defended its move, with general manager of marketing Jono Gelfand saying the company wanted to switch to individual contracts, called Australian Workplace Agreements, for all its workforce. "We are doing what we were told to do by the legislators."
Mr Gelfand said the company's AWAs met all of the Government's Work Choices legislative requirements.
"We are just doing whatever we are required to do to meet the minimum conditions set out by the Australian Fair Pay Commission."
Melbourne-based Spotlight employs warehouse staff and shop assistants for its retail fabric and curtain business, which has outlets across the country.
But the retail workers' union accused Spotlight of trying to create a second class of workers by paying new recruits much lower rates than serving employees.
Shop Distributive and Allied Employees Association national chief Joe de Bruyn said: "These AWAs are an absolute disgrace because what it does is pay the same rate of pay and take away all penalty rates and other conditions. It creates a second class of employees alongside others, and the Government's laws callously allow employers to do this."
Mr de Bruyn said Spotlight was a successful business that was exploiting its employees, and could not justify pay cuts on the basis that it was struggling.
Spotlight is the first big firm known to use the Government's workplace laws to maximum effect by cutting rates for new employees to the bare minimum.
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,19248316-421,00.html

Welcome to the New Australia under Workchoices.

[duff]

I still cant understand who these bloody minded companies think they will be selling their goods to in five years time, when we are all bloody broke.

maybe it would best if they just cut to the chase.. take us back 60 years over night,,,, so people can experience first hand,, what drove our grand fathers to fight for our current standard of living.

:huh: keep in mind when we all look at the international workers on $2. an hour and count our blessings that we live in the lucky country. WAKE UP does the new IR and sudden increase in imported labour not smell a bit funny. as soon as the scales tip WRT the local V imported labour......
I'm sorry but I just cant see the investment driven CEO's or even small buisness owner sitting back and pondering "" MMM do I employ this australian and maintain a reas standard of living( one that I would want my family to have),, or do I take this other person who is so desperate or scared or perhaps shortsighted enough to offer to work for peanuts, MMMm "" lets see,,
When these guys or John howard say that Australian workers must compete with Chinese etc labour, They are telling us in no uncertain terms that they expect us to work for that chinese standard of living.
I can tell you for a fact that even in little Weipa there is an alarming number of imported workers forcing local people to lower their standard of life to compete. and I strongly believe anyone who claims that they only employed these imported workers because they could not fill the position with a local person and tries to explain this to you face to face,, obviously thinks you are an absolute moron and has just levelled an incredable insult at you.
I really hope that someone proves me wrong. But unfortuanately I have seen this movie before, they cut a new edition every sixty years or so,, Its called history(differant set, same story line). I just wish more people would look back, and panic now. And the narrow minded middle manager who thinks he will be rewarded for doing the slashing and burning for the faceless top guys should wake up,, when all the workers are on $2 an hour you position is next:lol: :eek: :huh:

Well I feel better now anyway.

[Sly]

As long as there is footy and homeandaway on tv 90% of aust will slumber through their lives.
But come the revolt, there will not be anough crossmembers ! unless the bureaucracy holds an enquiry now !!

[CraigE]

Back to the bad old day's of unions and mass strikes I fear. These companies are too damn stupid to look after their workers and pay them a decent salary with decent conditions. They will be able to shaft people for a while, but only for a while. Once widespread the worm will turn, then these life destroying employers (and not all are in this basket), will get the comeupence they deserve. They will not get any sympathy from me, especially when they live in their million dollar homes and drive their flash new cars and dont mind making their employees live in Government housing and lucky if they can afford an old XD Falcon. Most business owners I know cry poverty when it comes time to pay their employees a fair wage, but always seem to have the best houses, new cars and are always on o/s holidays. They do not generally work harder than anyone else. Loyalty, do not expect any from employees you treat like this.
OK, off the soapbox.

[incisor]

Welcome to "Little America"

the land where the baby boomers sold their own kids futures for a stroll thru bunnings on a sunday afternoon... and people still dont get it.....:glare:

[crump]

Welcome to "Little America"

the land where the baby boomers sold their own kids futures for a stroll thru bunnings on a sunday afternoon... and people still dont get it.....:glare:
yeh, a bit like my spotlight on the fender gag.:D

[Maggot4x4]

Welcome to "Little America"

the land where the baby boomers sold their own kids futures for a stroll thru bunnings on a sunday afternoon... and people still dont get it.....:glare:

Or

Australia, the love child of George W Bush and John Howard:eek:

[rick130]

Welcome to "Little America"

the land where the baby boomers sold their own kids futures for a stroll thru bunnings on a sunday afternoon... and people still dont get it.....:glare:

Nicely put Inc, and sadly true.........:(

[rick130]

Most business owners I know cry poverty when it comes time to pay their employees a fair wage, but always seem to have the best houses, new cars and are always on o/s holidays. They do not generally work harder than anyone else.
that's not true of small business, which is the backbone of this country. Most work there ar$es off for a slightly better lifestyle (sometimes), yet trade out all conditions an average worker gets for stuff all security.

Sound familiar to what happens under certain IR laws ;)

[rangieman]

if george bush was that way inclined john howard would be his bitch


hang on john howard is his bitch (yes george dear):confused: :eek: :huh:

[seqfisho]

Welcome to "Little America"

the land where the baby boomers sold their own kids futures for a stroll thru bunnings on a sunday afternoon... and people still dont get it.....:glare:

Yes take me back to the 50's or 60's where the Landy ruled the off road scene, the bush was open for everyone and Australia was too isolated to be influenced by the crap from America.

[Maggot4x4]

Yes take me back to the 50's or 60's where the Landy ruled the off road scene, the bush was open for everyone and Australia was too isolated to be influenced by the crap from America.

They really were the good old days

[LoadedDisco]

Welcome to "Little America"

the land where the baby boomers sold their own kids futures for a stroll thru bunnings on a Sunday afternoon... and people still don't get it.....:glare:


Yep that says it all.

[crump]

In the words of Jello Biafra, "The Stars and Stripes, of corruption."

[Steinzy]

Yes but remember that the majority has kept Howard and his Ideals in place for over 10years:confused:

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/images/0206-05.jpg

[rick130]

because the majority have done OK financially, they will continue to vote for the party who appear to be the only viable (economic) option. To hell with first home buyers, future generations, those on the fringe socially or financially or outside metro areas or those who want, or even to just articulate an alternate vision.
X-Boxes, wide screen TV's, McMansions and Ford Territories rule....

Oh, and no viable oposition.
Watch them implode after Bonsai threw in his latest hand grenade on Nuclear power generation. That isn't about policy or vision, it's pure and simple politics.


Inc wrapped it up nicely.

[drivesafe]

Sorry folks, we are nothing like the USA.

If a store in the USA tried to pull a low act like Spotlight is pulling, Americans would boycott the shop out of business.

Will this happen here, not likely. The only way anything will happen is if the unions get the balls to stand-up to companies like Spotlight, because the general public in this country are now so self centred and selfish, all they will do is say to themselves “ Well that’s got to keep the prices down for me “

And another point, most USA companies have stopped down sizing now that they have learnt the true costs of what accountant driven ideas like this really cost. Only the pomes are still carrying on these ridiculous business practices.

Last but not least, if you want to blame anybody for the state of play in this country today, blame those who voted for little Johnny howard, and you can start with me.

I didn’t vote for Johnny and his crowd because I liked them, the fact is, I can’t stand them but the horrifying idea of the present labour party getting in, scares the living S**T out of me and I think if you ask most people why they voted for a scum bag like howard you’ll find they only did it to keep an even bigger pack of scum bags out of government.

This is my 2c worth.

[JDNSW]

They really were the good old days

But it may be worth remembering some of the other aspects - like 67 cents in the dollar marginal tax rate, no medicare, suburban railway carriages almost a century old ( in Melbourne for example), petrol stations in Brisbane closed after 6pm (1pm Saturday, closed Sunday), only one all night petrol station between Brisbane and Sydney (I can remember running out of petrol in Guyra in the S2 in the middle of the night in winter and waiting until it started to get cold inside before braving the blizzard outside to tip the jerrican in), petrol in central Australia more than triple the price in the capital cities, no STD phones (and often waits of several hours to get through on long distance calls).

I could go on, but while present conditions certainly have gone backwards in some aspects (most of them because there are simply too many people, both in Australia and the rest of the world), I have trouble agreeing with you. The worst aspect of americanisation in my view is not economic policies but that we now have adopted the american practice of "if something goes wrong, someone else must be responsible - sue them!", which was alien to Australia forty years ago, or even twenty years ago.

John

[CraigE]

Quote :that's not true of small business, which is the backbone of this country. Most work there ar$es off for a slightly better lifestyle (sometimes), yet trade out all conditions an average worker gets for stuff all security.

I am not for a minute saying business owners do not work hard, but the majority have a damn site better income than their employees, more medium to large businesses. Although most small business do allright if run properly.
It does annoy me when you see business man x in the media whinging about employee wages, then he gets into his Lexus, drives to his waterfront home in Port Bouveard, Gets on his 50ft cruiser and goes fishing, then to the Marina for a restraunt lunch, down to the holiday home in Dunsborough and a weekend at the winerie's of Margaret River, before the holiday to Europe. Many med-large busines owners live a life like this and quite a few small business owners I know lead a similar life but to a lesser extent. Oh so do our union bosses.
If I was a business owner I would pay the best salary I could to keep good workers, while still maintaining a healthy profit/living. A good dedicated workforce will help increase profits.

[incisor]

Sorry folks, we are nothing like the USA.
If a store in the USA tried to pull a low act like Spotlight is pulling, Americans would boycott the shop out of business.
hmmmm minimum wage in the USA is $14.25 per hour, no medical, no pension. thats why it is the land of the "Tip". most people in the lower end of town hold down 2 to 3 jobs to get by.

boycott, your living in a dream world big fella... there is millions of em walkin that walk...


Will this happen here, not likely. The only way anything will happen is if the unions get the balls to stand-up to companies like Spotlight, because the general public in this country are now so self centred and selfish, all they will do is say to themselves “ Well that’s got to keep the prices down for me “ the unions are made up the workers, fines of upto $10000 per person for participating in a unsactioned strike tends to slow em down...


And another point, most USA companies have stopped down sizing now
yeah they have moved to china, mexico, and thailand


Last but not least, if you want to blame anybody for the state of play in this country today, blame those who voted for little Johnny howard, and you can start with me. oh goody!


I didn’t vote for Johnny and his crowd because I liked them, the fact is, I can’t stand them but the horrifying idea of the present labour party getting in, scares the living S**T out of me and I think if you ask most people why they voted for a scum bag like howard you’ll find they only did it to keep an even bigger pack of scum bags out of government.
This is my 2c worth. it's your God given right to espouse it mate....

No matter how wrong you are :eek: :D:D:D

[ericpicc]

Well I'm a small business owner and we pay above award wages and the such, but we also have a good working relationship with our employees and they know where they stand.
All I know is the new laws helped us in the way if someone is a bad apple, and you do get them, you can deal with it.
You would think in this day and age that you would try to hold onto a job and not rip the employer or customers off for your own greed.
Now we have a better control, and it's amazing how people tow the line better.
We consider ourselves like a big familiy and try to opperate as one, it's just in the past, we had people who hid behind the laws and took us to the cleaners and we weren't the ones in the wrong in the first place.
We employed people as part time to combat those problems, but now with the new laws we have increased a lot of people to full time, so it does actually worked in employees favour as well.

We are 22 people all up so it all has to work like a well oiled machine.
Now if we only had a law to stop women from bitching about each other it would be even better.:D

[JamesH]

"but always seem to have the best houses, new cars and are always on o/s holidays. They do not generally work harder than anyone else."

Kinda makes you wonder why more people don't take it up. You've convinced me.

.

[drivesafe]

How many more people will prefer to go on the dole rather than be forced to work under these conditions, and I don’t blame them.

Australian companies have also moved of shore to China, Malaysia, Indonesia and India and you can thank Paul Keating for starting the exodus by making it easier for Australian companies to shut down here and bring in cheap foreign products without have to pay the protection that was there before Keating got in.

Oh that’s right, we have to live in a world where there is a level playing field, so for us to be part of that level playing field, we too will have to except working for a bowl of rice a day

The unions could still try and organise boycotts and work to rules and the likes, but they don’t. Their executives are all to busy trying to get positions in the labour party rather than looking after the rank and file.

And at this stage, unless there is a major change in the labour party, I’ll still be voting for Howard at the next elections, rice bowl or not.

What the country needs, is a new third political party, to keep the others honest.

[Maggot4x4]

The worst aspect of americanisation in my view is not economic policies but that we now have adopted the american practice of "if something goes wrong, someone else must be responsible - sue them!", which was alien to Australia forty years ago, or even twenty years ago.

John

The problem with this is that we are becoming a Nanny state where we need the Government to sanitise everything. If we were truely like the US in this regard we would be better off. You can pretty much do what you please, but if you hurt someone else they sue you. I would prefer that to "Well you can't do that cause we may get sued" mentality that exists now.

Put the onus back on the indvidual rather than the state, then, just maybe, we could have some of our closed 4wd tracks back.

[Maggot4x4]

Well I'm a small business owner and we pay above award wages and the such, but we also have a good working relationship with our employees and they know where they stand.
All I know is the new laws helped us in the way if someone is a bad apple, and you do get them, you can deal with it.
You would think in this day and age that you would try to hold onto a job and not rip the employer or customers off for your own greed.
Now we have a better control, and it's amazing how people tow the line better.
We consider ourselves like a big familiy and try to opperate as one, it's just in the past, we had people who hid behind the laws and took us to the cleaners and we weren't the ones in the wrong in the first place.
We employed people as part time to combat those problems, but now with the new laws we have increased a lot of people to full time, so it does actually worked in employees favour as well.

We are 22 people all up so it all has to work like a well oiled machine.
Now if we only had a law to stop women from bitching about each other it would be even better.:D

Not everyone can have a Boss with a heart though.

Would you rather see the odd bad apple take a little longer to get rid of, or, the majority of workers loose entitlements and job security? I know what I would prefer, as you as a boss can insure yourself against the bad apple, but loss of job security effects the whole economy, as people are less likely to spend if they think they may not have a job tomorrow.

But it is also not just the economic ramifications of something like this, what about the social outcomes of workchoices, the gap between the classes will become larger and there will be more and more people that have to resort to either living on the dole or breaking the law just to survive.

[CraigE]

This is always going to be a rather touchy issue, just like the journalistic credability issue. I am not saying there are not business'es that are struggling to survive, but this is not the employees main concern, but the company owners. It seems to me most business owners believe they work harder than anyone else, while this may be true in some cases it is not in the majority. I have seen people come from running a business into a production plant and last a day, a week, a month and then quit because they have never done real physical work.
I am by no means hanging crap on any business owners at all, most get to where they are by hard work, like everyone else. They do take more risks however.
I know plenty of business owners around here, (my partner may as well have run one for the last 10 years, but was only getting paid minimum wages). Most of these owners go o/s at least once a year etc etc.
I do not begrudge anyone doing well, but when they are making good profits and then want to decrease conditions for their own employees, that is just not right or fair. Generally just go to a chamber of commerce meeting and go for a walk through the carpark. Generally I am not talking about owner operator businesses but those that employee 5 plus people.
These IR laws may be great from a business perspective but are left open to too much abuse, look at some of the recent attempted sackings and reasons behind them. Greater profits is not a valid reason. I agree dead wood needs to be able to be gotten rid of, but not at the expense of someone who is doing their job, but a boss does not like.

[VladTepes]

Oh **** like a crow, now you've got me started !

I HATE words like "level playing field" and "free trade agreement" which are neither level nor free, but rather heaviliy in favour of only one of the parties involved.

I FEAR the situation where we develop (like in the USA) a class of "working poor". There's nothing more fundamentally WRONG than hard working people not being adequately rewarded for same.

I DETEST politicians who are always telling us what's good for us... as if they are still somehow in touch with reality when by the bulk of their decisions it's quite clear that they are not.

And the widespread corporate mantra that "too much profit is never enough" is indefensible. We see large corporations like the Commonwealth Bank (as just one example among many) continually "downsizing" (another loaded word) their workforces to increase that already MASSIVE bottom line. They would have us beleive that its in the interests of shareholders. But would they be concerned for the well being of you and me with perhaps a few $1,000 in shares ? No - but coiincidentally the CEO's and board members get paid a portionof their salary in shares so it's certainly in their interests to screw hell out of their employees and customers.

I could go on and on and on, but no doubt someone else will want to take over the soapbox.

[drivesafe]

I could go on and on and on, but no doubt someone else will want to take over the soapbox.

You don’t hear any of us telling you to stop Vlad.

So If you’ve got more to say. don’t stop now.

Cheers and well put.

[amtravic1]

I have been self employed all my life. If someone says I will pay you x amount of dollars for a job and I dont like it I just walk away or tell them where to go depending on what mood I am in if I dont like the rate being offered.
What I dont understand is why people accept jobs for such low rates/bad conditions. If enough people stood up for reasonable pay and conditions then the employers would have to offer resonable rates. It may take a while but it will happen.
Everyone deserves a fair rate of pay if they put in an effort to be good at their jobs.


I also dont understand why people have to make a trip to Bunnings like a day out. Unfortunately I need to buy from them occasionly. The prices are only good if you dont know what they should be, they sell alot of poor quality products and the service is disgusting.

[drivesafe]

Hi amtravic1, I’ve been both employed in government jobs and for most of my working life now, I’ve also been self employed. Never been on the dole and I’ve been lucky enough to have only being unemployed fo two days.

But when it comes to picking and choosing jobs, things are not that easy for many people when they have a family to support and debts to pay.

These are the people that little johnny is counting on to make sure that those who can pick and choose, don’t have that many options available to them so that eventually they too will have take anything they can get.

Just have a look at the way little johnny has mad it easy for scum bag companies to circumvent the immigration laws and are bringing in foreign labour on the pretext that they couldn’t fill jobs with local labour, even though these same companies never advertised the jobs here in the first place.

Howard is hell bent on forcing every working person in Australia to work for a bowl of rice a day.

Cheers.

[p38arover]

Hi amtravic1, I’ve been both employed in government jobs and for most of my working life now, I’ve also been self employed. Never been on the dole and I’ve been lucky enough to have only being unemployed fo two days..

I've been working for 41-1/2 years having started work on 17th birthday. In that time, like Drivesafe, I've been unemployed for a total of 2 days - Saturday and Sunday.

Ron

[incisor]

in the late 70's and early eighties the engineering trades in brisbane were decimated by senator buttons policies. 38 workshops on the north side of brissie were shut in 4 years...

i am a fitter and turner by trade and i was retrenched 6 times in three years....

[Ace]

I dont really know what to say to all that, except that good old John Howard has introduced something else without really thinking about how it will effect the average Australian, something which i would like to think was his job.

When i first started teaching and the first lot of pay disputes that i went to started they did a comparison of how the government looks after their own but shafts everyone else. In 1976 a teacher was earning as much as a parlimentry back bencher, who ever sees them doing anything, now they earn over $100000 a year and the eaverage teacher earns $40000 less than this. I know compared to others teachers do pretty well and this isnt a bitch about teachers not getting paid enough its just an example of how the government works. Their wages go up incrementally with inflation and other things like that but teachers, and probably everyone else in this country have to cop bugger all. Matt

[amtravic1]

It is a complicated subject. There are many things that are bad about the current government but then look at the alternatives and what we had before.
One subject that really annoys me is the idea of companies importing foreign workers to cover so called skill shortages. I am a carpenter/builder and from what I see trades people are finally getting paid reasonable money. The government says there is a skill shortage so will let in skilled workers from overseas and we will all get less money due to less demand and some people pricing jobs stupidly in order to keep working. You can see this effect here in Melbourne when the city construction work slows down and there is a big influx of workers trying to move back into the domestic market.
Luckily I have 3 regular customers and am somewhat insulated from most of fluctuations.

[ATH]

There’s a big reason here in Perth for Spotlight screwing it’s workers nationwide. It’s called the Convention Centre which Spotlight won the hospitality contract for a couple of years ago and it isn’t working out for them.
Apparently they stand to lose around 20 million bucks over 10 years or so.

Trouble was all the bits which made heaps of money like the car parking were all sold off to others but they must have missed that when falling over themselves to get on what they thought was a good earner.

So they want the taxpayer to prop them up and they’ve been told this ain’t going to happen so they screw the workers to make the bottom line look better.

I bet the top end executives won’t suffer and I also suspect that their mates in Parliament will be pulling out all the stops to assist them in many ways which won’t be made public!

Governments everywhere have made things very difficult for many manufacturing businesses to operate with their so called “free trade” agreements or tariff lowering policies which are loaded on the side of whomever is going to do the best for them career wise after politics.

They’re always overseas signing agreements with the UN or EU or anyone else they want to get on the right side of, irrespective of what the electorate thinks which is why the country is being overloaded with refugees from all over the world and cheap labour is going to make it difficult for workers to maintain wages or conditions.

Everybody knows that whenever little Johnny or other pollies are spouting about making Australia more competitive with Asia, they’re referring only to the workers not to their own wages and their fully funded by the taxpayer, indexed superannuation which will keep them in clover for the rest of their evil lives!

I dislike and distrust all pollies of any party, colour or creed.
Alan.

[stevo68]

Hmm this is one of those potentially loaded subjects, and opinions like ********s we all have one dependant on where we are, our views, perceptions, upbringings etc etc. Personally I have no qualms with the Howard government, aside from all the rhetoric, they have improved the overall quality of life for Australians. Labour is definately not an alternative by any means. Yes I concur that a $0.02 an hr payrise is a joke but it is a choice to work there on that rate. As with any occupation, bar a mental/physical disability and even then that doesnt stop many, with equal health and intelligence we choose what we do for a job. In a country like ours we are lucky that we have unlimited opportunity. Visit a 3rd world country and you will find out pretty quickly just how lucky we are.

I do run a business and employ 50 odd people, if I pay peanuts I get monkeys so my staff if they are on salary earn over and above the award, if they are in sales they have excellent incentives 2-5 times more than salaried ( office jobs). Which is the most popular job?? Salaried, why? Because in my experience is that many people dont want the stresses involved with a sales job or the uncertainty, very much like running your own business. But by taking on that risk there is potential for a higher payoff. Salaried is the same old same old, security of regular income etc etc. And I have no qualms with that, horses for course. If you like sweeping streets for a living and a tinnie in the arvo and life is grand, kudo's to you. If however you arent happy with ones own situation, do something about it.

I was made redundant many years ago, 3 wks before my wedding, IR laws had nothing to do with that, in fact I think they are great, nothing worse than having to go through a heap of crap to get rid of someone having a lend. Yes there has been some overzealousness in the beginning of the introduction, but statistically bugger all compared to the amount of businesses in Aust. Why because the average business owner is like the average employee, they understand to grow as a business it has to be win win. And if you dont like it find something else to do. Tough but hard and have done it myself with family and commitments.

On a final note, read a book called " Made in America" it is the stories of immigrants who have come from 3rd world countries, war torn, made incredible efforts to get to a place where they could realise their dreams. The people in the book are now all multi millionaires, a couple from Vietnam slept on hessian sacks for 2 years in their cousins bakery to save enough $$ to buy the bakery, then opened up a chain of stores. Im all for Australia, love Australians, but sometimes they just dont see what they really have, whereas many that come from perhaps less fortunate countries do and take full advantage of it and kudos to them. If someone wants the nice house, boat, control whatever, then get out and do it :D. Thats my piece

Regards

Stevo

[crump]

Hi amtravic1, I’ve been both employed in government jobs and for most of my working life now, I’ve also been self employed. Never been on the dole and I’ve been lucky enough to have only being unemployed fo two days.

But when it comes to picking and choosing jobs, things are not that easy for many people when they have a family to support and debts to pay.

These are the people that little johnny is counting on to make sure that those who can pick and choose, don’t have that many options available to them so that eventually they too will have take anything they can get.

Just have a look at the way little johnny has mad it easy for scum bag companies to circumvent the immigration laws and are bringing in foreign labour on the pretext that they couldn’t fill jobs with local labour, even though these same companies never advertised the jobs here in the first place.

Howard is hell bent on forcing every working person in Australia to work for a bowl of rice a day.

Cheers.

But you would have to agree that a great percentage of the population dont want a job, they are quiet happy to be on some sort of benefit or other that are so easy to get.We advertise jobs at work and regularly get no applicants even though this area has one of the highest unemployment rates.And I'm not talking highly skilled positions, just labourers, plant operators etc. And its local Government, a job for life, and no one wants it, and meanwhile they can still get the dole even though a job was advertised in their hometown.There is an apathy sweeping the nation, people dont want to get ahead, they just dont care.

[drivesafe]

Hi crump, in some cases, this may be so, but as unemployment is running at 6% or there abouts, that’s hardly a “ great percentage of the population “ but I also think that work for the dole should be introduced so that the rest of the working community can get something for the taxes they have paid to finance the dole.

[CraigE]

But you would have to agree that a great percentage of the population dont want a job, they are quiet happy to be on some sort of benefit or other that are so easy to get.We advertise jobs at work and regularly get no applicants even though this area has one of the highest unemployment rates.And I'm not talking highly skilled positions, just labourers, plant operators etc. And its local Government, a job for life, and no one wants it, and meanwhile they can still get the dole even though a job was advertised in their hometown.There is an apathy sweeping the nation, people dont want to get ahead, they just dont care.

I understand this point of view and agree with it. There is always a but and here it is, My brother works as long a hours as I do although only 8 hr days and earns less than 1/2 what I earn. Granted his is a relatively easy job, but he is hugely knowledgable in his field. My point is, he would be just as well off on the dole seeing as he has 4 kids. He does not want to be on the dole and works for peanuts, why because of self esteem. There are a lot of people like him. Granted he could earn more money easily if he headed way out west, but why should he and his family have to leave their home. Australia needs to wake up and ensure evn people on the bottom rung of society who are still hard workers earn substantially more than the dole over all. There are a lot of bludgers who are a drain on society and these are the ones we need to cull out. Without being racist it is endemic in certain pockets of our communities. I seriously agree with some of the work for the dole schemes, but not at the expense of real jobs. There are plenty of charity or non profit organisations that could use workers, but they must be made to actually contribute, not just turn up or ignore their obligations. Just like community service. Waht a joke.
Enough of my ranting.
I can not personally complain as the company I work for pay me well. Just a shame to see a lot of hard working people battling on low incomes.

[crump]

And further to that point, there is no public interest in politics in general, look how we laid back and accepted the GST, when prior to that Hewitson lost an election on bringing it in.The Franklin Dam was stopped due to public uproar but we are selling the Snowy Scheme with barely a whimper.Beattie has told the electorate that the Traveston Dam will go ahead, tuff bickies.He's not concerned about backlash as he knows there is no viable alternative in this state, and Howard knows the same.One nation had huge support(not from me, despite what Seqfisho says), but the media crucified them, and the State put Pauline and her comrade in jail for lesser crimes then we read about that politicians commit every day.Would you stand up and lead another party when you can expect that treatment?The Beasleys, Springborgs etc have a lot to answer for as they are supposed to offer the population a viable alternative as any opposition should, their not even trying.And why, cause they still get paid regardless of being in power or not.Witness the Bill Ochees of the world, one term and your set for life with a lovely super package.We sit and blame the pollies, but we're the ones who put them there!

[crump]

Hi crump, in some cases, this may be so, but as unemployment is running at 6% or there abouts, that’s hardly a “ great percentage of the population “ but I also think that work for the dole should be introduced so that the rest of the working community can get something for the taxes they have paid to finance the dole.

Yeh, but thats the spindoctors with their 6%, it includes everybody on a work for the dole scheme and every skills based traineeship type deal, which is still funded by the Feds ie you and I.But your right on the last point we should get something from them for our taxes, because they arent ever going to pay any.

[CraigE]

Crump,
we are damned if we do and damned if we don't. Vote for one and they will still shaft us and use the election result as a mandate, even thoygh no body supported that perticular idea, vote the other way and the same thing would happen. Don't vote and your branded apathetic.

I have a great idea,
VOTE 1 CRUMP FOR PM !!!!!!
Stand on AULRO'ian forum and let's take back the country.
First policy change, everybody must worship Land Rover and all current AULRO members will make up the parliament and be provided free Land Rovers for life at the expense of ex-politicians.
At least one of each model in the garage.
:D :o :D :o

[crump]

I like it.:D But i doubt anyone else does.:D Dont get me wrong though, I really think the whole political thing is a waste of time, I'd rather be sucking P %$ss on the banks of the Palmer river then spending too much time worrying about this stuff, lifes short.

[Moses]

Our new IR "laws" aren't too far removed from the yankee ones.

Saw a sticker today "Australia used to be a kick a r s e country but now is a kiss a r s e one"

Pretty well sums it up, I think. As long as little Johnny keeps performing oral sex on that war mongering, oil greedy, yank, we are well on our way to becoming the 51st state of the united states of the world.:mad: If the republican movement gets its way, it will really pave the way to be yankified once we cut ties with the "old country". I don't believe we should be under british rule, but I sure as hell don't want to be under yankee rule!

The yankification of Australia is well on track:huh: Just look as all those yankee fast food chains, and the high percentage of yankee tv being forced down our throats. Our kids are right up on all the yankee speak, like, you know, like and like own all the yankee fashions like and enslave themselves like to the latest like yankee fad like.

I go the SHOP for a TIN of Kirks and some hot CHIPS. then I walk home on the FOOTPATH etc etc etc...

Our language has adopted the yankeeisms, through and through.

Do I hate the yanks? Not at all. I have a ball when I visit the US. I have a very dear american friend in the US, who I visit from time to time and even he says he's ashamed of the way the US forces its opinions and power on the world. Just because it is their way, doesn't mean it is the right way. And that goes for every single country in the world, even ours.

I grew up in our way of life and I love it. That's why I'm still living here! But I really am worried about the decay of our society in general and at the hands of the bullies of the world.

I'll crawl back into my hole....

[Ralph1Malph]

Sorry guys,:o
My parents are small business owners and have welcomed the changes.;)
They want to employ another staff member or two but have been burnt by the difficult business of getting rid of a previous lazy non committed employee and are now gun shy.:mad:
Dad says he is willing to now employ again albiet in a reduced hours situation knowing he can rid himself of a troublesome new employee if they don't fit the image of his business or have the commitment required.

My two bobs worth..
Ralph

[CraigE]

The problem is there needs to be some sort of official safety net to catch the people who abuse the system. This sacking people and then rehiring them on lower rates of pay and conditions is appalling. Or saying the position is no longer required and then hiring to fill the same job or the same job with a different name is garbage.
Look at a lot of the meat processing plants round Australia. Try and find a slaughterman that is not Muslim!! Even before these laws came into place it was common practice to sack or retrench whole floors in the meat industry and then replace them with lower paid Muslim workers. Reverse racism at its best. If these people demand Halal meat let them go back to where they came from. And no I do not didlike Muslims. I have a lot of friends who are Muslim, but this is not the Middle East. With the new IR laws it is easier. Sure the government will make a stand on the first few cases, but down the track when all has settled it will be open slather.
Believe me I have been i a situation with a personality conflict, backstabbing wannabe's. My work ethic is great and I have never not done my job or more and this is verified by references. Under the new IR legislation it would have been easy for my old boss to sack me without a reason. Under the old law or assessment from the Commissioner of Workplace Relations they new they would not have stood a chance as there were no grounds. Just I had ****ed the wrong person off, because they were not doing their job and I could see that. Needless to say a career change still within the company was imminent and probablly the best thing that happened to me. In the end the manager I had an issue with has been moved on, subtlely. I have had several managers and supervisors what happened was wrong. Even under workplace agreements you have no real backup or assistance against your boss, under IR laws it is even less.

[ATH]

I made a statement earlier about Spotlight taking on a business that wasn't performing to their expectations. I withdraw that as it wasn't them but a company with a very similiar name and I trust I didn't upset anyone and if I did it was unintentional.
The rest of my post I stick by. Politicians are a disgusting sub species.
Alan.

[Ralph1Malph]

I made a statement earlier about Spotlight taking on a business that wasn't performing to their expectations. I withdraw that as it wasn't them but a company with a very similiar name and I trust I didn't upset anyone and if I did it was unintentional.
The rest of my post I stick by. Politicians are a disgusting sub species.
Alan.

Spitlight:question:

Spotloot:question:

Spatleet:question:

Spootloot:question:

Spunklick:eek:

Spankypants:lol:

Spootskootin'Looters:D


Regards
Ralph :p :p :p :p

[Maggot4x4]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2006/06/134.jpg
A community protest is being held tonight at Spotlight's Mt Gravatt store to 'say no' to AWAs that will strip workplace rights and conditions for Spotlight workers.

COMMUNITY PROTEST TONIGHT - Spotlight, Mt Gravatt
Big Top Centre, 1290 Logan Road, Mt Gravatt
Time: 5.30 to 7.00 pm (please note: store closes at 7)

Date: TONIGHT! Thursday 8 June

Your attendance will be vital in helping express the community outrage to the implementation of such anti-worker practices.