Discovery 4 hesitation

[Carrow81]

Hi everyone I'm new the forum

I have just purchased a 2012 SD HSE Discovery 4 with 127000 kms on it, our previous car was a 200 series don't hold that against me! I'm guessing this issue may have risen before but I'm hoping for a fix to this issue as the car has 3 months warranty, the issue is the hesitation when slowing to a stop and than going to accelerate and it just dies is this normal? its quiet unnerving and dangerous. any help would be much appreciated.

[PerthDisco]

Hi everyone I'm new the forum

I have just purchased a 2012 SD HSE Discovery 4 with 127000 kms on it, our previous car was a 200 series don't hold that against me! I'm guessing this issue may have risen before but I'm hoping for a fix to this issue as the car has 3 months warranty, the issue is the hesitation when slowing to a stop and than going to accelerate and it just dies is this normal? its quiet unnerving and dangerous. any help would be much appreciated.

Drive it like you stole it for a while to wake up the gearbox from previous learning.

There is a hesitation till you get turbo but made worse if in the wrong gear.

See if problem goes away in sports mode also.

[Carrow81]

Drive it like you stole it for a while to wake up the gearbox from previous learning.

There is a hesitation till you get turbo but made worse if in the wrong gear.

See if problem goes away in sports mode also.

Ok ill give it a try, thanks for the advice much appreciated.

[loanrangie]

An Italian tune up once in a while will help.

[letherm]

I had the same issue with mine when it was new. Possibly not as dramatic but caused me concern. This is my first turbo engine. Dealer said it was the delay until the turbo spun up from start so to speak. Noticed especially at first pulling into traffic when it would seem to decide if it would go. The other spot was an uphill intersection where I had to brake to a very slow speed to see if it was safe to go. In that spot I can use the gear override to be in a lower gear and that overcomes the issue. You do get used to it and adjust your driving and it's not such an issue. As the above post said using sports mode will help too and you can, as he said, alter the gearbox response by driving aggressively for a while as the gearbox will adjust to suit your driving style.

Martin

[LRD414]

I agree with comments above (sports mode, driving style, manual downshift, etc) re reducing the lag.

But there is always some hesitation that you need to be aware of and consider when pulling into traffic.
I don't think it's turbo lag, it's programming to avoid wheel spin.
Jumping out into small gaps in traffic is not recommended in a 3t 4WD.

Cheers,
Scott

[DiscoJeffster]

I agree with comments above (sports mode, driving style, manual downshift, etc) re reducing the lag.

But there is always some hesitation that you need to be aware of and consider when pulling into traffic.
I don't think it's turbo lag, it's programming to avoid wheel spin.
Jumping out into small gaps in traffic is not recommended in a 3t 4WD.

Cheers,
Scott

I think it’s a combination of the trans getting into the right gear and the ECU controller throttle holding back for the trans gear and then the turbo winding up. Sadly an electronic throttle isn’t as linear as a cable. I don’t notice it much anymore as I think you learn how to drive around it. Rolling on and off the throttle rather than big stabs improves things.

[scarry]

I think it’s a combination of the trans getting into the right gear and the ECU controller throttle holding back for the trans gear and then the turbo winding up. Sadly an electronic throttle isn’t as linear as a cable. I don’t notice it much anymore as I think you learn how to drive around it. Rolling on and off the throttle rather than big stabs improves things.

Exactly,it took me a while to teach SWMBO this.The Auto on ours will bang if you hit the throttle hard very occasionally after slowing down almost to a stop, as well,driving around this as well negates the problem.

Then i had it tuned,the lag then virtually disappeared.

[ATH]

Mine does it, 2016 D4 just out of warranty. Never did it before so suspect it's a gradual thing with something electronic and I've checked with the Gap Tool but there's no faults showing.
Looks like a job for an "expert".
And I won't be looking for one of them at the stealers. :)
AlanH.

[DieselLSE]

Never did it before so suspect it's a gradual thing...
AlanH.
That's an interesting observation Alan. I'm wondering if it is an early warning of a more serious issue, such as a build up of gunk or a small split or tear in the intake somewhere. It would appear that, as far as the vehicle's internal diagnostics are concerned, the episode is within accepted parameters so no error codes are triggered.
Has anyone experienced these episodes before needing to do any serious repairs? I'm thinking intake manifolds, EGR repairs etc.

[letherm]

Jumping out into small gaps in traffic is not recommended in a 3t 4WD

Totally agree but you can "judge" gaps by starting to roll and then hitting the go pedal rather than starting from a stop position. You do need to be comfortable with your awareness of the car's response before playing chicken though. I certainly would not cut it too close but now I do not wait until the road is totally clear for fear of lack of response. As I said you will get to know what you can and can't do but need to take it easy at first. A common sense approach is really all that you need.

Martin

[Carrow81]

In my uneducated opinion on land rover it seems its common from the responses, and people changing driving styles to suit seems strange to me, yes its a big car, but our 200 was bigger no delay just go, the only other cars I've ever been in that has done this was a old wrx and that was years ago 4cyl, and speaking to my brother his crappy hyundai does it 4cyl and hyundai told him its normal, ill try driving it hard for a while and see how that goes and report back.

[shack]

In my uneducated opinion on land rover it seems its common from the responses, and people changing driving styles to suit seems strange to me, yes its a big car, but our 200 was bigger no delay just go, the only other cars I've ever been in that has done this was a old wrx and that was years ago 4cyl, and speaking to my brother his crappy hyundai does it 4cyl and hyundai told him its normal, ill try driving it hard for a while and see how that goes and report back.Let's not forget "there's no replacement for displacement"

The 200 series will ALWAYS launch better than a 2.7 or 3.0 litre turbo diesel, there is no way around this! However generally speaking the lag is minimal and unobtrusive. When it becomes noticeable there is usually an underlying cause... But can be a bear to locate.

Cheers
James

[PerthDisco]

In the 2.7 with one turbo the cause is situational. A certain situation can occasionally catch the car out momentarily. I have one bad intersection to pull into regularly and on super busy mornings I click it into Sport mode and no problems. It actually accelerates surprisingly fast.

[LGM]

Reading through the original post and the responses I get the feeling that there is some considerable lag in performance of the mark? I certainly do not notice a hesitation in my D4 3.0L vehicle......that said, I have been driving it since 2011 and on occasions I do not spare the horses so to speak. Maybe I am so familiar with the vehicle I don't notice any hesitation? Mind you I did come over to the D4 from a D2 and there was certainly hesitation / turbo lag in the D2! Personally I reckon getting a good independent LR expert to 'have a look' would be well worth the money.

[Carrow81]

Hi all
I totally agree with theres no replacement for displacement. And totally don't expect the car to behave in the same manner power wise to the landcrusier but when a car in the 21st century, does not pull away when you apply the accelerator there definitely something wrong. We live in a rural area about 60 kms to town, today we drove the car, coming out of the driveway rolling on the brakes as its on an incline, foot off the brake, went to accelerate slowly onto the main road and dead, no momentum at all just like the car stalled, pulled my foot off the accelerator and stabbed the throttle way we go. I didn't notice black smoke from the rear of the car, I gave it some salt & pepper to town, and honestly never noticed it driving around town. we booked the vehicle in at land rover in newcastle to give it the once over and if continues ill mention it when i drop the car off.

Thanks for everyones input much appreciated.





regards
chris

[PerthDisco]

Start with a full service for sure. Air cleaner, fuel filter etc.

I remember a Top Gear episode where they got a big performance gain just in servicing it.

[Discodicky]

Hi all
I totally agree with theres no replacement for displacement. And totally don't expect the car to behave in the same manner power wise to the landcrusier but when a car in the 21st century, does not pull away when you apply the accelerator there definitely something wrong. We live in a rural area about 60 kms to town, today we drove the car, coming out of the driveway rolling on the brakes as its on an incline, foot off the brake, went to accelerate slowly onto the main road and dead, no momentum at all just like the car stalled, pulled my foot off the accelerator and stabbed the throttle way we go. I didn't notice black smoke from the rear of the car, I gave it some salt & pepper to town, and honestly never noticed it driving around town. we booked the vehicle in at land rover in newcastle to give it the once over and if continues ill mention it when i drop the car off.

Thanks for everyones input much appreciated.


There is of course that occasional problem with a faulty brake light switch which can throw it into neutral when stationary and nothing there when you take your foot off the brake and accelerating for a moment or two. I had that problem earlier this year on my D4 and the knowledgeable fellas on this forum told me to replace the stop light switch (about $30) which i did and haven't had the problem re-occur.

[LRD414]

.... coming out of the driveway rolling on the brakes as its on an incline, foot off the brake, went to accelerate slowly onto the main road and dead, no momentum at all just like the car stalled, pulled my foot off the accelerator and stabbed the throttle way we go. ....
I agree with you that it's not great and this situation is its achilles heal. I've had similar to this from new (2014, 8 speed); coasting and then accelerating often needs paddle shift intervention. Keeping it in Sport helps.
It will only be partially improved by spirited driving, which you won't have done enough of yet for it to relearn shifting pattern.

I think what you've described so far is unlikely to be a problem such as brake light switch.

Cheers,
Scott

[Narangga]

Start with a full service for sure. Air cleaner, fuel filter etc.

I remember a Top Gear episode where they got a big performance gain just in servicing it.

I assume that the 3.0 is the same as the 2.7 but regular cleaning of the MAP sensor certainly helps performance. As does making sure the MAF is working - mine wasn't when I bought it and putting in a working one did improve performance.

[ontheway]

There is of course that occasional problem with a faulty brake light switch which can throw it into neutral when stationary and nothing there when you take your foot off the brake and accelerating for a moment or two. I had that problem earlier this year on my D4 and the knowledgeable fellas on this forum told me to replace the stop light switch (about $30) which i did and haven't had the problem re-occur.

There is a new thread on left foot braking that I hope is not relevant :)

I found the brake switch to cause similar behaviour as well. If I "feathered" the brake pedal a bit to manipulate the switch it all came back to life but YMMV. New switch is inexpensive.

[DiscoJeffster]

If the car senses brake pedal application it brakes over accelerating. This is why a fault brake switch stuck on or lagging can see the car practically immobile.

[DiscoMick]

Might be a silly question, but has the transmission been serviced and flushed recently?

[Carrow81]

Hi

I went through the service history no mention of transmission service just the usual things e.g. filters, oil,brake pads ,the joy of buying used cars i guess, the place where we brought the vehicle said they gave it a service, and they were kind enough to put the sticker on the window but not write anything in the book so even that is questionable. They also had two tyres fitted to the front of the car as they were scrubbed out but somehow passed a road worthy , i asked if they did a wheel alignment when they put the tyres on and no was the answer "good help is hard find" , got the car home one wheel nut missing on drivers side, went and check all the front wheel nuts and only two were locked down on each side the others finger tight. GOOD TIMES
[bigsad][bigsad][bigsad]

[DiscoMick]

Yes, you've got to watch them. A relative had his Triton serviced by a dealer, and a day later there was a puddle of oil under it. The sump plug had not been tightened.

I don't know if the transmission has anything to do with your hesitation, but a flush and replacement of all oils in the vehicle could only be a good thing.

[Carrow81]

Mine does it, 2016 D4 just out of warranty. Never did it before so suspect it's a gradual thing with something electronic and I've checked with the Gap Tool but there's no faults showing.
Looks like a job for an "expert".
And I won't be looking for one of them at the stealers. :)
AlanH.

Hi Alan

Have u tried to back up a incline in your vehicle?. I tried this yesterday in ours and nothing foot flat the floor no revs nothing, foot off the accelerator and back on nothing, the third time it decided to reverse.

Cheers
Chris

[Mulray]

Hi all
I totally agree with theres no replacement for displacement. And totally don't expect the car to behave in the same manner power wise to the landcrusier but when a car in the 21st century, does not pull away when you apply the accelerator there definitely something wrong. We live in a rural area about 60 kms to town, today we drove the car, coming out of the driveway rolling on the brakes as its on an incline, foot off the brake, went to accelerate slowly onto the main road and dead, no momentum at all just like the car stalled, pulled my foot off the accelerator and stabbed the throttle way we go. I didn't notice black smoke from the rear of the car, I gave it some salt & pepper to town, and honestly never noticed it driving around town. we booked the vehicle in at land rover in newcastle to give it the once over and if continues ill mention it when i drop the car off.

Thanks for everyones input much appreciated.

Hi mate,

I’m with you - that’s dangerous and shouldn’t be doing that. It’s a fault. Too many lovers in here not being subjective. It’s a fault true and simple.

So just a bit more information. When you start off in first (manual) does it do it? Does it do it in sport mode? Is it doing it every time or occasional / random? When you go to accelerate is the car at running temperature or cold?

[winglen]

Following closely. Two types of hesitation here.

The normal one discussed at length here where anticipation and rolling on the pedal rather than stabbing it gets better results when turning across traffic. Seems worse after long downhill and the box is slow to shift down when you suddenly need power for the turn at the bottom. This is my daily commute so don’t even notice it anymore. Sport or paddle down are solutions if bothered.

The other is random when it shouldn’t, but so rare to not bother pursuing. One time when I had it in low range rock crawl on a steep incline after briefly lifting the foot rolling over a jumpup and it refused to respond to the following resumption of the climb. Feathering, gentle, stabbing, nothing for ten seconds then off like a scalded cat. Never did it again on other identical runs on that track in identical conditions. But has happened elsewhere randomly but rarely. Unsettling.

[DieselLSE]

...after briefly lifting the foot rolling over a jumpup and it refused to respond to the following resumption of the climb
This is important to note. It's like the old "keep the revs up" rule. Based on my D4 low range experience, I would recommend ascending in manual mode (Command Shift or whatever they call it) and, in the situation above where you need to back off the throttle (unexpectedly), change down a gear or two at the same time (as you back off the throttle). Of course, you can do the same if you're in Drive as the car will be in a suitable gear for the climb anyway and will immediately respond to a touch or two on the paddle. That way, the lower revs will be matched with the lower gear and there'll be no hesitation whatsoever.

[Carrow81]

Hi mate,

I’m with you - that’s dangerous and shouldn’t be doing that. It’s a fault. Too many lovers in here not being subjective. It’s a fault true and simple.

So just a bit more information. When you start off in first (manual) does it do it? Does it do it in sport mode? Is it doing it every time or occasional / random? When you go to accelerate is the car at running temperature or cold?
random

[DunnToImpress]

I have had this issue in my RRS, stop at the lights, when they change i go to take off and nothing. not a flat spot, nothing. i then release the Accelerator and push it down again and all is OK. This happened a few times when the Car was brand new, i took it to the Stealers and no faults were showing. Over the last 7 years it has maybe done it 4 or 5 times, not in the last 3-4 years though. I have put it down to my Accelerator foot slightly depressing the brake when taking off thus meaning the car does nothing. I might be wrong!?!?!

[Carrow81]

[QUOTE=Carrow81;2974301]Hi all
I totally agree with theres no replacement for displacement. And totally don't expect the car to behave in the same manner power wise to the landcrusier but when a car in the 21st century, does not pull away when you apply the accelerator there definitely something wrong. We live in a rural area about 60 kms to town, today we drove the car, coming out of the driveway rolling on the brakes as its on an incline, foot off the brake, went to accelerate slowly onto the main road and dead, no momentum at all just like the car stalled, pulled my foot off the accelerator and stabbed the throttle way we go. I didn't notice black smoke from the rear of the car, I gave it some salt & pepper to town, and honestly never noticed it driving around town. we booked the vehicle in at land rover in newcastle to give it the once over and if continues ill mention it when i drop the car off.

Thanks for everyones input much appreciated.

Hi mate,

IÂ’m with you - thatÂ’s dangerous and shouldnÂ’t be doing that. ItÂ’s a fault. Too many lovers in here not being subjective. ItÂ’s a fault true and simple.

So just a bit more information. When you start off in first (manual) does it do it? Does it do it in sport mode? Is it doing it every time or occasional / random? When you go to accelerate is the car at running temperature or cold?

We drove the car last night to town and on the driveway slight incline car wouldn't move in reverse it took some time to get to move, it was like the torque convertor was not engaging. Honestly i haven't tried manual or the sports mode. The first time the car was at running temp second time my brother was driving it the car was warm. Third time the car had a 5 min warm up before driving off. And last night 5min warm up also. It seems random so far. The best outcome now is that land rover can diagnose the "problems" and sought out the warranty with where i purchased the vehicle.

Regards

chris

[Blackrex]

I had the same issue with mine, the gearbox fluid was low and allowing aeration of the oil meaning that the gearbox didn't have sufficient pressure build up at lower speeds. Get the box serviced and the oil levels checked.

[LRHybrid100]

LTB00369v2 - Vehicle Hesitation When Accelerating From Low Speed | TOPIx

Check your brake pedal switch - tell me how I know?

[Melbourne Park]

Get the gearbox serviced. I asked Land Rover dealer for a gearbox oil change, they quoted $3,400. They said the oil is costly.


If your in Melbourne take it to A&B Automotive Remanufacturing, 12-14 Cahill St South Dandenong, 3175, tel. 97683755. They have factory ZF gearbox equipment made by ZF for their gearbox manufacturing / rebuilding and very few organisations have such gear in Australia. I did a tour of their place with the LR Club. Those guys know everything about ZF transmission issues. There is an equivalent organisation in Sydney I think.


Replacements are $8K I’ve heard. My service cost $770.00 although they knew I was a member of the Land Rover club. The transmission fluid costs over $100 retail per litre but they get it much cheaper.


They also do a diagnostic of the gearbox which includes interrogating various computer memories of what is going on. Tell them about your issues.


One good thing about Toyota is they change the oils a lot, hence their gear lasts. You should change all the diff oils, and also the gearbox. The gearbox oil (transmission fluid) will go to custard if you don't change the oil. It needs to be done by 80k and earlier if towed. Land Rover specify doing it at 210,000km, when the gearbox is out of warranty. By then its likely the gearbox will be damaged when a change would have fixed it. But Land Rover kid people about the maintenance cost. The job of some cost accountant I guess. A friend has a few Porsches and even they are not changing the fluids much on his Macan. Maybe i misspelled that ... so he gets it done more frequently. He has did some club racing for a few years in his 911 which he bought and hotted up. He's now brought it back to a factory interior because it went up in price a whole lot ... racings gone now ... !!!!


I have had lots of Toyotas and drove my bought new `1997 prado today. I still like that a lot - its nice and light. I have changed the fluids in that thing though, and they are under less stress because its much lighter than a Disco. I had a Kakado 150 series and it was horrible to drive. It had some issues too. My Disco has so far been fine except for a front suspension issue which I was not aware of fixed under warranty, a broken rear seat unlocking mechanism which LR refused to fix under extended warranty, a worn door rubber seal which LR also refused to fix under warranty. I need to import driver side rubber door seals from the UK as the price of them here is silly.

About the wheel nuts - LR say that they need to be torque wrenched to prevent the discs from going out of round .... a loose nut would not be someone who knows recent Discos. I have a never used torque wrenched for that purpose though I bought one for doing that!!! I need to buy some rotors from the UK too I guess ... maybe some better ones??? Whoops wandering off topic ...

Oh and take it to an LR specialist repair place and get them to check it out. They exist and in Melbourne several just do Land Rovers They can service it for you and they'll identify any issues that you can get fixed under your warranty.

Good luck and keep us informed.


Doug

[DiscoMick]

I agree. Get a transmission specialist to service it, is my advice. I wonder if the internal filter in the auto has ever been changed.

[Carrow81]

Hi everyone

So the car made its way to land rover yesterday, and wait for it, the results are we just don't know without more time spent on the car, but numerous code faults 3 pages worth, but they were kind enough to write up a $3000 parts bill all discs are worn and all pads worn, front cv gone but no noise coming from it just the boots are torn, but what they didn't realise is they replaced the discs and pads 5000 kms ago lol and didn't log it in there online system or in the book, it was in there background system which the service staff must fill out, anyways quick wearing discs and pads i reckon or a terribly hard 5000 kms lol, i looked at the pads last night they look to have about 4mm on them and the discs have about a 1mm lip good on them for trying it on. Now the joy of chasing up toyota to warrant the problems.

regards
chris

[grey_ghost]

I drive a Skoda daily and was told at 70,000km that I need new rotors.. The car just had it’s 165,000km service - still on the same rotors! [emoji35]

[Carrow81]

yep our old 200 series had 280 000 kms same rotors from new. land rover ones must be alloy lol.[wink11]

[ATH]

Our D4 is coming up to 75k now and we do tow a light van so I’ll get the transmission serviced. The stealer reckons they use a specialist in Osborne Park but I’ve forgotten who they said.
Any recommendations?
Cheers.
AlanH.

[eddy]

Probably Precision Auto Transmission or Diffs Trans R Us,both close to Barbagallos

[discorevy]

Automatic Transmissions R Us | Transmission Specialist Perth | The Automatic Transmission Experts (https://www.autotransrus.com.au/)

[Carrow81]

The car came back from land rover trying to nut out the problem, they found a leaking o-ring in the throttle butterfly pipe. The car hasn't done it since BUT i have not driven it much either. so finger crossed. [bighmmm]

[DiscoJeffster]

Those damn o-rings. I had endless issues with them and yes, my car has definitely performed better since that was sorted. It also keeps all the intake oil in the intake and not all over the engine.

[Eric SDV6SE]

Those damn o-rings. I had endless issues with them and yes, my car has definitely performed better since that was sorted. It also keeps all the intake oil in the intake and not all over the engine.

Not to mention keeps the air pressure where it should be. Replaced all 3 o rings, still looking for a way to keep the throttle body one in its place.

[DiscoJeffster]

Not to mention keeps the air pressure where it should be. Replaced all 3 o rings, still looking for a way to keep the throttle body one in its place.

Well yeah, which is why some of the hesitation is sorted. Go and see Nick at Dovers. Dovers fixed mine up perfectly and it’s not leaked or moved since. There is some plastic that needs grinding off to stop it clashing and not seating correctly (there is supposedly a TSB for that according to Nick).

[Eric SDV6SE]

Well yeah, which is why some of the hesitation is sorted. Go and see Nick at Dovers. Dovers fixed mine up perfectly and it’s not leaked or moved since. There is some plastic that needs grinding off to stop it clashing and not seating correctly (there is supposedly a TSB for that according to Nick).

Ta, will check, car came back from Dovers just yesterday. Havent had the chance to pop the bonnet yet.