Electric Overland trucks

[Jojo]

Shapes of the future:
Electric Overland Vehicles (https://overlandjournal.com/podcast/electric-overland-vehicles/)

[Homestar]

I’m still not sure how the distance but is overcome.

“ It is also easy to dismiss electric 4WDs for overland travel, but even those limitations have been, or will be overcome (excluding extreme remote distances and polar travel)”

What constitutes ‘extreme remote distance’ - I could drive 1000KM easy in a weekend where there is pretty much zero power available and a few solar panels on the roof aren’t going to charge it, so even a long weekend in the bush is well beyond the capacity of any EV.

I’ll be called a hater which I’m not at all, I love EV tech but I think it’s a stretch to think you could really go bush in one.

[DeanoH]

X2

IMO there's a lot of 'rose coloured glasses' commentary related to EV's which totally ignores the impracticability of ownership in a country like Australia, by this I mean large and sparsely populated with little EV infrastructure.
Sure EV's might be practical in densely populated urban areas or European countrys with a town/charging station every couple of dozen K's (at worst), but not in Australian rural/remote areas.

I think this bloke sums it up pretty nicely.

YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hatav_Rdnno)

Deano :)

[NavyDiver]

Not doubt your right today gents. My theory will be an EV can be more capable off road then petrol or diesel for several reasons. Range and Recharging is an issue. It was for petrol or diesel at first of course. Moving parts are a weak link we all know.

I will be happy to have a good range EV and very happy with a off road beast of an EV even if it is slightly range restricted today as I know shortly I will be able to toss a generator in the back to charge.

Just working with some sparkys this morning before work on a UPS gen set which is just batteries in a stand by power mode.

Backup Power Systems - Fuel Cell Power Products | Ballard (https://www.ballard.com/fuel-cell-solutions/fuel-cell-power-products/backup-power-systems)

My work UPS is flow batteries which are not a mobile option.

The fuel Cell option price and availability will be game changing in my thoughts. I do not take a generator when I go camping at the the moment mostly as I hate the noise. Not an issue with a fuel cell gen-set. A portable multi purpose H2 gen-set will be my work UPS and weekend/holiday EV charger possibly[thumbsupbig]

[oldyella 76]

I think I might put some gen sets across the Anne beadell as charging stations. I could also incorporate them into a camping ground so they can camp and get charged overnight. No problems for running a 60 litre fridge overnight either. Might also look at the Canning if the first is successful. Problem will be getting diesel fuel up there to run them or hire a couple of hectares of solar panels if I can get the permission. Of course I will have to negotiate with the native title holders and pay them. But I could maximise my profits because I would have a captive market.
Lindsay

[NavyDiver]

Long haul is in the bag Gents https://www.globenewswire.com/news-release/2020/02/06/1981067/0/en/CNH-Industrial-brands-IVECO-and-FPT-together-with-Nikola-Motor-Company-announce-future-Nikola-TRE-production-in-Ulm-Germany.html

https://ml-eu.globenewswire.com/Resource/Download/868bf1e9-594a-4369-9299-206b5390f7d6'size=2
(https://www.globenewswire.com/news-release/2020/02/06/1981067/0/en/CNH-Industrial-brands-IVECO-and-FPT-together-with-Nikola-Motor-Company-announce-future-Nikola-TRE-production-in-Ulm-Germany.html)

[Jojo]

The thing is, most people are stuck in an old fashioned attitude and way of thinking. When living with and using EVs, you'll adapt and 'fear of running out' or 'short range' become less of an issue. Besides, even fossil fuel burning vehicles have a range limit. And when it comes to recharging/refilling: every filling station will have electricity and a power socket (unless it is making use of jerry cans only).
The only advantages of conventional vehicles are that there already is an established infrastructure for fuel supply (although any socket will do for an EV) and that liquid fuel is easier made portable (for the time being anyway).
Compare this to the advantages of EVs: much more quiet, no fumes, much easier to drive, way better offroad ability...

Disclaimer: I have been driving EV for five years now, about 200k kms. Like you, I have been sceptical, very sceptical, in the beginning. But now there is no turning back. It works in real life. Better than anything. And it will work even Down Under. Don't take my word for it, give it a try[biggrin]

[Homestar]

The thing is, most people are stuck in an old fashioned attitude and way of thinking. When living with and using EVs, you'll adapt and 'fear of running out' or 'short range' become less of an issue. Besides, even fossil fuel burning vehicles have a range limit. And when it comes to recharging/refilling: every filling station will have electricity and a power socket (unless it is making use of jerry cans only).
The only advantages of conventional vehicles are that there already is an established infrastructure for fuel supply (although any socket will do for an EV) and that liquid fuel is easier made portable (for the time being anyway).
Compare this to the advantages of EVs: much more quiet, no fumes, much easier to drive, way better offroad ability...

Disclaimer: I have been driving EV for five years now, about 200k kms. Like you, I have been sceptical, very sceptical, in the beginning. But now there is no turning back. It works in real life. Better than anything. And it will work even Down Under. Don't take my word for it, give it a try[biggrin]

All good, and as I said I love EV tech but you haven’t explained how EVs can be used for remote or even semi remote travel/long weekends i’m the bush which this thread is about.

[W&KO]

Soo, I’ve done a drive by the charging ration at moby dick servo four times and it’s been not available twice.

Just thinking, it’s not designed for a truck to pull in, it would need an extension cable for starters and than would be blocking everybody else.

[Red90]

The thing is, most people are stuck in an old fashioned attitude and.....

Please explain how to do a 1000 to 2000 km off road trip outside of civilization?

There is nothing wrong with an EV. But currently they are expensive and do not have suitable range for off road travel.

[DiscoMick]

Carry a generator?

[Red90]

Carry a generator?


Besides the point that it would invalidate the entire reason to have the EV, don’t do the math on how much generator and time and fuel would be needed.

[Red90]

So I looked up some numbers. A Tesla does around 5 km per kw-h. It will be worse off road but let’s use that. A small but high quality generator will use 0.5 liters per kw-h.

So that works out to getting 10 km per litre. So you end up carrying at least a 5 kW generator and the same amount of fuel as the other guy driving a diesel.

[W&KO]

Besides the point that it would invalidate the entire reason to have the EV, don’t do the math on how much generator and time and fuel would be needed.

Micks all good, already has a generator....gotta keep the camper cool

and bashes on every other day about EV’s and the need to embrace and global warming and the need to stop burning fossil fuels.

[Homestar]

Carry a generator?

Just doing some quick back of the napkin calculations here. Take a Tesla Model S battery pack for example - 85KWH and stuck it in your outback EV. Say you drove around for however long and used half its capacity one day and needed to charge that out in the sticks. Say you’re carrying a 3KVA genset for arguments sake as this would be close to being the largest genset you’d carry if your loaded with all your other gear. Your 3KVA can deliver 2.4KW (Assume a power factor of unity for the calculation). Also assume 100% efficiency for the sake of making it easy. With the genset running full tilt you now need to run it for just shy of 18 hours to charge the half flat battery pack up. Fuel usage is around 1.78 litres per hour in a Honda EU30iS gen so that’s around 32 litres (2 tankful) to do. Even running it all night wouldn’t get you up to capacity to drive the same distance the next day, not to mention the pick axe I’d bury in the guys head for running his genset all night.

In reality I’d add 20% to these figures for loses, etc but it proves that this isn’t a viable option. Fast EV chargers have huge current carrying capacities and a gen small enough to carry isn’t going to work.

Might as well take the ICE vehicles out. [emoji106][emoji4]

[DiscoMick]

Yeah, I agree carrying a generator isn't a practical answer for extreme remote travel.
Mind you, this thread is about EV trucks, which will have longer ranges than cars like the Tesla, maybe twice the Tesla S's 450 km real world range. And EVs can recharge from any power point, not just a charger, but it takes a lot longer.
The remote fuel thing is a bit of a red herring anyway. EVs will initially be used in urban areas and on major highways, where recharging isn't a problem.
Remote travel will remain ICE until there are roadhouses with charging points.

[PhilipA]

I looked at a YouTube of a bloke who did the math on how heavy a battery would be to get truck to AFAIR 800 kms.
The battery would weigh something like 5 tonnes.
He pointed out that with axle limits etc for the USA that it would make along distance truck uneconomic.
regards PhilipA

[Jojo]

Please explain how to do a 1000 to 2000 km off road trip outside of civilization?

There is nothing wrong with an EV. But currently they are expensive and do not have suitable range for off road travel.

You need of course to adjust your planning and driving. Just as with an EV on the road, you don't drive for, let's say, five hours in a stretch but will make room for a 15-20 min break every couple of hours recharging your vehicle whilst grabbing a coffee and having a pee. The slight delay in time is easily offset by the fact that you will be arriving much more relaxed and less tired with the additional benefit of being more alert whilst driving.
On an overland trip you will plan you route accordingly. Besides, how will you be doing 2000 km outside civilisation without additional fuel supply in an unmodified vehicle? Playing the 'advocatus diaboli' here one could argue to carry along a spare battery pack on a tralier (mind you, the Cybertruck has a 7 t towing capacity) will give you the additional range you are feeling is lacking. Carrying a generator is certainly an obsolete thought as it defies the whole point of an EV. Once again, where there is a fuel pump there will be electricity that can even charge your battery. Any power outlet will do and I doubt that all but the remotest servo will be running manually powered fuel pumps.
Another point that needs considering is that the 'fuel' consumption even of an EV will be somewhat higher when doing slow moving or offroad work, but it will not increase to the same degree as in an ICE-vehicle.
Overall, there might be some specialist applications where ICE-vehicles still may have their place, but these are few and will be taken over by EVs as well in due course.

[Homestar]

You need of course to adjust your planning and driving. Just as with an EV on the road, you don't drive for, let's say, five hours in a stretch but will make room for a 15-20 min break every couple of hours recharging your vehicle whilst grabbing a coffee and having a pee. The slight delay in time is easily offset by the fact that you will be arriving much more relaxed and less tired with the additional benefit of being more alert whilst driving.
On an overland trip you will plan you route accordingly. Besides, how will you be doing 2000 km outside civilisation without additional fuel supply in an unmodified vehicle? Playing the 'advocatus diaboli' here one could argue to carry along a spare battery pack on a tralier (mind you, the Cybertruck has a 7 t towing capacity) will give you the additional range you are feeling is lacking. Carrying a generator is certainly an obsolete thought as it defies the whole point of an EV. Once again, where there is a fuel pump there will be electricity that can even charge your battery. Any power outlet will do and I doubt that all but the remotest servo will be running manually powered fuel pumps.
Another point that needs considering is that the 'fuel' consumption even of an EV will be somewhat higher when doing slow moving or offroad work, but it will not increase to the same degree as in an ICE-vehicle.
Overall, there might be some specialist applications where ICE-vehicles still may have their place, but these are few and will be taken over by EVs as well in due course.

And exactly where are these magical recharging stations (and coffee for that matter) 1000km or more off the beaten track? 🧐

Still haven’t explained how you can do long distance remote touring - where there are recharge stations isn’t remote by any stretch. Some places I go for long weekends are 100’s of KM from the nearest power pole.

[Jojo]

And exactly where are these magical recharging stations (and coffee for that matter) 1000km or more off the beaten track? 🧐


Exactly there where you are getting your fuel for the trip.

[W&KO]

Exactly there where you are getting your fuel for the trip.

Have no doubt adjustment will happen

Just thinking back to my simpson desert crossing.....easy to drop a jerry or two into the tank not so easy for an EV

maybe it’ll be the end of some iconic outback tracks as I doubt there will be return on investment on setting up charging station....providing the authorities allow new infrastructure in national parks.

[cjc_td5]

Exactly there where you are getting your fuel for the trip.Its just that the electrical supply required to run a motor in a fuel bowser is vastly lower demand than that required to charge an EV. Most remote fuel stations use solar or diesel generation and these cannot supply enough power to charge up multiple EVs....

[Jojo]

Its just that the electrical supply required to run a motor in a fuel bowser is vastly lower demand than that required to charge an EV. Most remote fuel stations use solar or diesel generation and these cannot supply enough power to charge up multiple EVs....

As long as there is only the occasional EV around coming for a charge it will suffice. As soon as demand increases the servos will adapt and eventually develop into charging stations. Remember that in the beginning of motor transport there were no servos either and filling up was done at pharmacies, but very soon the relevant infrastructure was built up.

[Red90]

2000 km between refueling is normal for the trips I do and I go to places that nobody else travels. If you do not have the experience or knowledge then admit it and move on.

You can’t bring a trailer. The terrain in much too hard for that. Never mind that you have not done the math on the size of a 400 kW-h battery pack.

[Jojo]

2000 km between refueling is normal for the trips I do and I go to places that nobody else travels. If you do not have the experience or knowledge then admit it and move on.

No I have never done 2000km between refuelling and this is definitely not normal for the trips I am doing. Would not even be feasible doing with my truck, given the fuel consumption of 10l/100km (standard driving that is, not even loaded for overland travel) and without any long ranger tank or such. Easy to admit. I figure the majority of people haven't done those trips and are not planning any either.
The thread was not started to convince you that just you should convert to using an EV for overland travel and your application rather to make a point that in the very near future this option will exist. If someone should move on, it's you. Literally speaking...
Cheers

[Red90]

Have you actually done any off road travel?

[Jojo]

Sure. Several overland trips during the last 2,5 decades, using a variety of vehicles sporting the 'Green Oval'. 'Nuff said. Case closed.

[Red90]

And what is the farthest you have travelled off road between cities?

[Jojo]

A stone throw. One could still see the chimneys. I'm just a bl**dy rookie compared to you[bigrolf]. Of course.

[Red90]

It is difficult to have a proper factual discussion on the subject when you do not want to talk numbers.

[ramblingboy42]

Red 90, I travel vast distances in Australia between servos.

There is no 2000km point to point distance anywhere in Australia and this a huge country....compare it to Canada.

Please tell me where you drive 2000km without refuelling, I want to look at it on a map.

We can do that here too , if we choose to bypass other servos.

[NavyDiver]

"Developed in collaboration with Toyota Motor North America, 10 zero-emission Kenworth T680s powered by Toyota hydrogen fuel cell electric powertrains will transport cargo across the Los Angeles basin to inland cities." Range 300miles (482km) before refueling
Down size to a Landrover size weight and a rough guess would be 2000+++km [biggrin] Just joshing as clearly the H2 carried, Electric engine and battery able to be carried in a semi will be to big for my disco [biggrin]



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hLw38rYsZY

[Homestar]

Exactly there where you are getting your fuel for the trip.

I can go well over 1000km without a servo in a vehicle that does 20/100 others much further and 2000km with a vehicle that does 10’s is absolutely possible. I can get fuel drops along route if needed in places - you’re still dodging the question of how an EV can travel these sort of distances and places. You say ‘It will happen in the near future’ without saying or describing the physics that will allow this - you just believe it will whereas others here understand Physics and what it would take and know it isn’t close at all for cases like this - it’s all pie in the sky, you need to have a hard look at the evidence - not here, but the actual physics of batteries, recharging, etc. I won’t harp on any more about it, you - like everyone else that pedals the pie in the sky part of EV have zero answers, just the same tired old rhetoric. Maybe give it a rest, no one believes you.

Get back to me when you can share how EV overland vehicles can replace ICE in these instances, I’ll be all ears, not BS hopes and dreams - you can’t power your car on those.

As you say - case closed - against you.

[Jojo]

I can go well over 1000km without a servo in a vehicle that does 20/100 others much further and 2000km with a vehicle that does 10’s is absolutely possible.

In this case you obviously run a custom built vehicle on those trips. If challenged, one could purpose build an EV as well. But that's not the point. The EVs presented at the start of this thread compare to ordinary standard trucks, such as mine. 1000km in a stock standard Land Rover is out of the question without use of jerry cans, which take up plenty of space and add weight. I have done my overlanding with my family aboard, so space definitely has been an issue.

[Jojo]

...without saying or describing the physics that will allow this - you just believe it will whereas others here understand Physics and what it would take and know it isn’t close at all for cases like this - it’s all pie in the sky, you need to have a hard look at the evidence - not here, but the actual physics of batteries, recharging, etc. I won’t harp on any more about it, you - like everyone else that pedals the pie in the sky part of EV have zero answers, just the same tired old rhetoric. Maybe give it a rest, no one believes you.

Get back to me when you can share how EV overland vehicles can replace ICE in these instances, I’ll be all ears, not BS hopes and dreams - you can’t power your car on those.

As you say - case closed - against you.

And, btw, if you would sit down for a moment and relax, restraining from taking things personally (as it was not intended to insult you but I definitely do not apologise for having an opinion different from yours) and actually consider trying an EV and changing your approach, you will see things from a different perspective.
I have been driving EVs now for quite some time and have heard all those resentments and reference to 'evidence' from early on, so far to prove them wrong. Now these comments have all but quieted down and reality has shown the critics otherwise.
Once again, you are entitled to have your opinion and I am not interested in convincing you to change. Experience will do, even in your case. My purpose with this thread was to give en eye opener for things possible and maybe att some inspiration to those who are interested. If you don't want/need/can handle this, fine. But stop getting personal and insulting, adjust your attitude, please!

[Homestar]

Not taking it personally at all mate - it’s just that you just haven’t provided anything remotely plausible explaining how one would go about such a thing is all but prattle on with your holier than thou attitude as if you’re the only one who is right. Myself and others that have posted here are PRO EV - We have mentioned that but we want to know how to do long remote travel in one - you said it’s possible, then said it will be possible soon, then said build a custom rig - all without actually talking about how to do that.

I’m all ears now with this custom rig bit - please explain the 1000KM plus remote off road tourer to me as far as battery packs, weight, etc go - remember of course to allow for extra power usage when crossing hilly or soft terrain, What vehicle base you’d use, total GVM, battery pack weight and KWH rating, motor size and cost.

I await the details.

[DiscoMick]

I remember at one stage Tesla was talking about battery packs being swapped in and out, but that idea seems to have gone quiet.
I have seen mining trucks with engine packs that could be swapped to keep the truck working whil a failed engine pack was repaired, but it needs specialist equipment.

[Homestar]

The battery swap system in concept is a good idea but sort of went dead as the costs involved in the infrastructure are large and limited to one model as none of the OEM’s build things the same unfortunately. If they could all sit down and agree on a spec across a range of vehicles that could be viable long term but I bet every OEM things their designs are the best so I wouldn’t hold my breath on that any time soon.

[PhilipA]

There are something like 18 bolts to be undone to remove aTesla battery and it weighs several hundred kilos.
to replace the battery it must be positioned exactly right or the contacts are bent.
Ask Rich rebuilds . He had Some angst.

Then there is the problem of differing battery age.Who would swap say a 2 year old battery for a 6 year old one?

So it would need either pits, which are generally illegal or hoists with a high capacity lift underneath and jigs to ensure accurate connections . Sounds expensive both in equipment and labour.

regards PhilipA

[Homestar]

There are something like 18 bolts to be undone to remove aTesla battery and it weighs several hundred kilos.
to replace the battery it must be positioned exactly right or the contacts are bent.
Ask Rich rebuilds . He had Some angst.

Then there is the problem of differing battery age.Who would swap say a 2 year old battery for a 6 year old one?

So it would need either pits, which are generally illegal or hoists with a high capacity lift underneath and jigs to ensure accurate connections . Sounds expensive both in equipment and labour.

regards PhilipA

I’ve seen video of a fully automated system doing this some years ago - never took off but it did work. You buy a battery pack and swap it instead of charging it and paying a flat monthly fee. Battery age doesn’t really matter too much with a system like this but with the cost involved it’s unworkable.

[Jojo]

Not taking it personally at all mate - it’s just that you just haven’t provided anything remotely plausible explaining how one would go about such a thing is all but prattle on with your holier than thou attitude as if you’re the only one who is right. Myself and others that have posted here are PRO EV - We have mentioned that but we want to know how to do long remote travel in one - you said it’s possible, then said it will be possible soon, then said build a custom rig - all without actually talking about how to do that.

I’m all ears now with this custom rig bit - please explain the 1000KM plus remote off road tourer to me as far as battery packs, weight, etc go - remember of course to allow for extra power usage when crossing hilly or soft terrain, What vehicle base you’d use, total GVM, battery pack weight and KWH rating, motor size and cost.

I await the details.


If you would just stop sprattling on for the moment and check what this here thread is all about. In the very first post I was showcasing how things will look in the future, nothing else. Your accisations are missing the Point completely as I was not making any claims at all, just presenting what's on offer. As stated previosly, I am not trying to convince you (I see no point in doing that), just showing interested mates what is/can be/will be possible soon. I feel those news are inspiring and encouraging.
None of the vehicles presented in the linked article are available in Australia right now (btw this applies to the New Defender as well, although are there plenty of threads about it) but probably will be in the not too distant future.
Bragging on about how far you will venture off the beaten track is also rather pointless as others may have different travel patterns. I am not asking either how many kms you have done in EVs, so in your case I'd keep a lower profile and talk about things you know instead of repeating stuff you've read elsewhere.
Just dismissing the whole idea of overland-EVs just because they may not be suited to any particular situation is akin to dismissing your truck as you cannot take your offspring's football team along to an interstate match in it.

[Jojo]

I remember at one stage Tesla was talking about battery packs being swapped in and out, but that idea seems to have gone quiet.
I have seen mining trucks with engine packs that could be swapped to keep the truck working whil a failed engine pack was repaired, but it needs specialist equipment.

Teslas battery pack can be swapped in 5 min flat and they had a couple of swapping stations in California, I think. These were soon closed since there was no demand as everyone was using Superchargers or charging at home/work. So the whole idea proved unneccessary in the end.

[Homestar]

If you would just stop sprattling on for the moment and check what this here thread is all about. In the very first post I was showcasing how things will look in the future, nothing else. Your accisations are missing the Point completely as I was not making any claims at all, just presenting what's on offer. As stated previosly, I am not trying to convince you (I see no point in doing that), just showing interested mates what is/can be/will be possible soon. I feel those news are inspiring and encouraging.
None of the vehicles presented in the linked article are available in Australia right now (btw this applies to the New Defender as well, although are there plenty of threads about it) but probably will be in the not too distant future.
Bragging on about how far you will venture off the beaten track is also rather pointless as others may have different travel patterns. I am not asking either how many kms you have done in EVs, so in your case I'd keep a lower profile and talk about things you know instead of repeating stuff you've read elsewhere.
Just dismissing the whole idea of overland-EVs just because they may not be suited to any particular situation is akin to dismissing your truck as you cannot take your offspring's football team along to an interstate match in it.

Sigh, I’m not dismissing the idea, just asking how it may happen given the physics doesn’t add up. I’m not even going to explain any more to you or about what I do and do not know here, you won’t listen anyway. I’ll leave it by saying I’ve been working with power generation, isolated power supplies, motor control, batteries, localised power distribution and mains power distribution, both LV and HV full time for nearly 30 years. If that doesn’t give me the credentials to discuss this topic then nothing does. It’s nothing to do with what I’ve read on the internet, but observations, study and understanding based on what I do full time and get paid a decent whack for is all. I keep up with all the latest tech from the industry leaders, understand the chemistry and physics and efficiencies behind batteries and motors advise and get paid by large business for my expertise and knowledge in these areas - not the www on such things, but what do I know right?

I’m always here if people want to actually listen to my real world experience and understanding of these things not to get abused by those that go off what is written on an article and take it as gospel but as they say or those that smugly drive an EV and put others down because they don’t (guess who fits into that catagory around here [emoji6] ) - you can lead a horse to water...

You say what you want from here and badger whoever doesn’t agree with you - I won’t interrupt.

Knock yourself out with a reply as I know you can’t seem to leave things without having the last word, I promise not to reply and I’ll let you settle back smugly and thing you’ve put me in my place.

Over and out...

[goingbush]

Please explain how to do a 1000 to 2000 km off road trip outside of civilization?

There is nothing wrong with an EV. But currently they are expensive and do not have suitable range for off road travel.

When theres no Civilisation you wont be able to stop at a Servo & buy Petrol or Diesel to go into the remote outback.

You the last man on the planet you still be able to drive your EV 4x4 as long as you want , Just carry solar panels & wait to charge , you not going to be any hurry .

Didn't ye see the story of Mark French driving is Electrip Suzuki across the Nullabor , drive into the night, sleep, charge during the day , repeat . Took 4 days , Took me longer when I crossed in a Landy in '85.

[goingbush]

Look how ****ed up the spell correct is, Above was all good as I typed it. ^^^

[Red90]

When theres no Civilisation you wont be able to stop at a Servo & buy Petrol or Diesel to go into the remote outback.

I can make petrol or diesel very easily. I design refineries. Electric is more of an issue as all batteries have a finite life. Making new compact batteries is not simple.

[goingbush]

OMFG !

[PhilipA]

The future rarely turns out as expected or predicted.
When I was young and an economics student the cause célèbre was the need for a Fourth London airport as Heathrow, Stanstead and the city airport had reached capacity.
millions of pounds were expended on planning, environmental studies etc.

Then the Jumbo jet was invented.

regards PhilipA

[JDNSW]

"Predictions are difficult, especially about the future"

On the automotive front, I am still waiting for the flying car that was going to be available within ten years (before I was old enough to drive) - I am now altogether too close to eighty, and I see no real evidence it is any closer than it was in 1950. And that is just one unfulfilled prediction, although, now having a pilot's licence I understand fairly well why that one hasn't happened.

Of course, what happened is things we had not even thought of; for example:- cheap air travel; computers in almost every home; virtual disappearance of common childhood diseases; everyone (almost) completing high school, and nearly half doing tertiary education; the internet; mobile phones; affordable overseas phone calls; credit cards; GPS; and many more.

[DiscoMick]

As Homestar sort of said, apologies for bastardising what he did say, battery technology isn't quite there yet for remote travel, but progress is being made, and I'm sure better batteries will be along soon.
Solar is also improving, and it may not be long before vehicles are completely covered in a flexible skin of solar panels, as experiments are mass produced.
Meanwhile, EVs already work in urban areas, but costs need to fall. The spread of charging stations will accelerate over the next decade.
I'm just interested to understand how society is changing. It's actually exciting.

[NavyDiver]

Found a nifty H2 gen set which is close but possibly a little small of EV charging. It would rock for camping but I want one which can multitask

https://www.brambleenergy.com/news-blog/1kwfuelcell

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5a1ace66b7411ccec821bf57/1581607586728-1OB2R7CAMC5P9F6B2K1W/ke17ZwdGBToddI8pDm48kFZlGp_stKMj6dMUzQ2Vj_B7gQa3H7 8H3Y0txjaiv_0fDoOvxcdMmMKkDsyUqMSsMWxHk725yiiHCCLf rh8O1z5QHyNOqBUUEtDDsRWrJLTmEDAQviCMzVwwNDVsHWHW6A cD3OeMZPUzRuB-QAlsTxUVps6xV_n9kFas4pOBZHsA/K1000.png?format=2500w
(https://www.brambleenergy.com/news-blog/1kwfuelcell)

[PhilipA]

Good luck getting the hydrogen.
They appear to be a PR Led company as they say on the home page that eve n the k 60 is not due for release until early 2020.

these are not new . Kimberley camper,s we’re offering a similar fuel cell operating on methanol several years ago. It was fabulously expensive and the running cost was high due to the cost of fuel.
one would hav.e to ask Emma Chissit.

regrds PhilipA

[Jojo]

Meanwhile, EVs already work in urban areas, but costs need to fall. The spread of charging stations will accelerate over the next decade.
I'm just interested to understand how society is changing. It's actually exciting.

Good point. EVs already work outside urban areas and are constantly and frequently used for long distance travel all over Europe and most of North America. Whilst maybe not quite suited to remote outback travel yet, things are changing and with some ingenuity one will get very far already (and back again as well[biggrin]).

[taffy]

Aussie company developed fully electric off grid caravan with wheel motors for drive.
A mobile power station.
Ozxcorp.com

[Loderunner]

The future rarely turns out as expected or predicted.
When I was young and an economics student the cause célèbre was the need for a Fourth London airport as Heathrow, Stanstead and the city airport had reached capacity.
millions of pounds were expended on planning, environmental studies etc.

Then the Jumbo jet was invented.

regards PhilipA

Don't want to be pedantic but London City airport opened in 1987. The Jumbo Jet started production in 1968.

Irrespective, they are still shouting that they are at capacity now and talks of a third runway at Heathrow are underway.