It moves!

[Pezwa83]

Hi gang,
I've had a 2a for about 12 months now. Slowly been getting it running. Has a 186 in it. Previous owner history is non existent. Finally got it to the point of test drive. I've only been up and down the driveway so far, but outs very jumping/hoppy on takeoff. Is this normal? Once it's moving (1st gear and 2nd low) it's ok. But take off is woeful.
Would anyone have any ideas? Clutch? Gearbox?
Are there any checks I can do?

Cheers
Pez. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200309/b1eb7f6a20abc3e4c3c028755b0d16e8.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200309/b026e323c4b13a03ff56b7242ccbc36b.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200309/3f921aba7883c61b788aa8457aa3a2f2.jpg

[B.S.F.]

If you're in low range it is probably normal, especially with a Holden engine.
.W.

[Pezwa83]

I just had a thought. Could it be an broken engine mount?

[JDNSW]

As above plus a dragging handbrake can cause this.

As suggested, a broken, loose or soft engine mount (especially the left front one) will cause the engine to move as it takes up the load. Unless it has a non-standard throttle cable instead of the linkage this will move the throttle on the carburettor without your foot moving, which will have this effect.

Unless you are very experienced at driving them, it is easy to make sudden starts in low range.

[Pezwa83]

I've been able to very slowly take off in 2nd low, but 1st high is just super jumpy. Will check engine mounts today. Handbrake not dragging so it's either clutch or engine mount....
As above plus a dragging handbrake can cause this.

As suggested, a broken, loose or soft engine mount (especially the left front one) will cause the engine to move as it takes up the load. Unless it has a non-standard throttle cable instead of the linkage this will move the throttle on the carburettor without your foot moving, which will have this effect.

Unless you are very experienced at driving them, it is easy to make sudden starts in low range.

[Pezwa83]

So I've changed the engine mounts, they were knackered. Rebuilt the carb, was filthy. Changed the fuel filter.
But now if I hold revs, it will hold for 10 secs then start sputtering and lose revs.
I've noticed the fuel line from the tank is fairly thin, likely the original? Should it be changed? Might be starving the carb?
Cheers https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200327/107ea43c10d0ab2e7b456f03cd06b054.jpg

[JDNSW]

It is unlikely that any credible fuel line will restrict flow, but look for buildups of crus in any filters, pipe fittings etc. I don't know about the Holden fuel pump, but the Rover one has a gauze filter.

However, the most likely issue is the suction pipe in the fuel tank. First of all, disconnect this from the pipe leading to the fuel pump, and see if you can blow through it from there to the pump. Then remove the suction pipe from the top of the tank. This has a gauze filter on the bottom of it that is likely to be partly blocked (if it is not missing).

If this shows there is rubbish in the tank, usually rust flakes if nothing else (often flakes of paint that have come from jerricans over the years), remove the fuel gauge sender so you can see how bad it is. After looking at this, you will probably want to drain the tank by removing the drain plug and flushing it with fresh fuel. Do this outdoors and with suitable fire precautions.

Another potential problem is a rust pinhole in the suction pipe.

[1950landy]

The diameter of the fuel lines should be large enough . I would be blowing the line through with air , replacing any filters & checking the fuel pump the diaphragm could have gone hard if has been sitting dry for a while. I guess you checked the float level in the carby. If you have a pressure gauge you could check the fuel pump pressure also.

[Pezwa83]

It is unlikely that any credible fuel line will restrict flow, but look for buildups of crus in any filters, pipe fittings etc. I don't know about the Holden fuel pump, but the Rover one has a gauze filter.

However, the most likely issue is the suction pipe in the fuel tank. First of all, disconnect this from the pipe leading to the fuel pump, and see if you can blow through it from there to the pump. Then remove the suction pipe from the top of the tank. This has a gauze filter on the bottom of it that is likely to be partly blocked (if it is not missing).

If this shows there is rubbish in the tank, usually rust flakes if nothing else (often flakes of paint that have come from jerricans over the years), remove the fuel gauge sender so you can see how bad it is. After looking at this, you will probably want to drain the tank by removing the drain plug and flushing it with fresh fuel. Do this outdoors and with suitable fire precautions.

Another potential problem is a rust pinhole in the suction pipe.The pump is an old original glass bowl. I'll check it. I refurbed the tank and sealed it with a fancy resin. Didn't think about the pick up pipe though. Thanks

[Pezwa83]

I'll recheck float level, but it might be time to replace the pump too.
The diameter of the fuel lines should be large enough . I would be blowing the line through with air , replacing any filters & checking the fuel pump the diaphragm could have gone hard if has been sitting dry for a while. I guess you checked the float level in the carby. If you have a pressure gauge you could check the fuel pump pressure also.

[mick88]

After you are satisfied the carby, fuel pump, and fuel lines are clean fit an in line filter between the fuel pump and fuel tank to ensure that crap never gets into the pump or carby again.
Also whilst not being the issue you have at the moment with the engine starving for fuel, but the Stromberg carby tops are prone to warp with age/heat etc., so its a good idea to give then a hone on a piece of fine emery paper on a sheet of glass.

With regard to the vehicle "kangarooing" can we see some pics of the throttle linkage set up etc please?
Also some pics of the engine mounts please?

Is there any oil dripping from the bottom of the adapter plate?


Cheers, Mick

[Bigbjorn]

Given that far more problems are ignition related rather than carburetor and fuel supply, have you checked for spark? Sufficient, happening at right time, etc.

[Pezwa83]

After you are satisfied the carby, fuel pump, and fuel lines are clean fit an in line filter between the fuel pump and fuel tank to ensure that crap never gets into the pump or carby again.
Also whilst not being the issue you have at the moment with the engine starving for fuel, but the Stromberg carby tops are prone to warp with age/heat etc., so its a good idea to give then a hone on a piece of fine emery paper on a sheet of glass.

With regard to the vehicle "kangarooing" can we see some pics of the throttle linkage set up etc please?
Also some pics of the engine mounts please?

Is there any oil dripping from the bottom of the adapter plate?


Cheers, MickSo I've rebuilt the carby, including flattening all the surfaces- they were indeed warped. Reset the float level, which was way low. Fit new fuel line, fuel pump and inline filter. Ran alot better but would not rev past 2700, start missing etc. Reset timing which helped, but I suspect the plugs are needing a clean now.

Have put new engine mounts on and checked all mounting bolts. Old ones were cactus. It uses the original LR mounts attached to a fabricated engine bracket.

Will take some pics of throttle linkages. No oil leaking from adaptor plate.

[Pezwa83]

Here's the pictures https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200405/4218b45c3571c320d55ab9ee19efeec6.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200405/99a7306dfef0b8c768a1e9ce9bc4a5eb.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200405/a2639e8b483861a779945cba75622c16.jpg

[bemm52]

When you shine a torch down the carbie does the lower damper (under choke) fully open with accelerator pedal at the end of its stroke/travel.....just a thought

Cheers Paul

[Pezwa83]

I'm not quite sure what you mean. The lower dumper?
When you shine a torch down the carbie does the lower damper (under choke) fully open with accelerator pedal at the end of its stroke/travel.....just a thought

Cheers Paul

[bemm52]

Butterfly valve like the choke but operated by the linkages you posted.....mightn’t be opening fully perhaps due to miss adjustment of linkages......as I say just a thought

Cheers Paul

[mick88]

So how does it actually run now that you have gone over the carby, does it run smooth, idle down low etc?
The throttle linkages look ok, that long piece of flat that appears to be added/welded to part of the linkage
assembly should give a longer pedal action/movement from idle to full throttle, hence better/smoother
foot control. The spring up on the bulkhead bracket is an addition, and looks like it could be a bit strong,
normally the return spring is on the other end of rod which runs across the bulkhead and is a much longer
spring, which offers a much smoother and progressive throttle action.
The engine mount rubbers look good enough from the pic, and judging by the fabricated steel engine mounts
the conversion kit is a Johnson (Geelong) one. I assume you have run your eye over the rear mounts either
side of the transfer case to make sure they are not knackered?

Is it still "kangarooing" when you drive it?

Good Luck.
Cheers, Mick.

[Pezwa83]

Hey thanks Mick. It runs beautifully now. Smooth idle, revs well. Needed some timeing adjustments and idle setting. But......it doesn't return to idle after a good rev. I think the springs need a look at like you mention.
That big spring doesn't really do anything during throttle movement. I can't work out what it's for. I'll try and post a pic tomorrow.

I replaced a rusted out gearbox crossmember a few months back and put new rubber mounts on it at the same time.

Haven't taken it for a drive since. Will do it tomorrow and report back

[Lionelgee]

Hey thanks Mick. It runs beautifully now. Smooth idle, revs well. Needed some timeing adjustments and idle setting. But......it doesn't return to idle after a good rev. I think the springs need a look at like you mention.
That big spring doesn't really do anything during throttle movement. I can't work out what it's for. I'll try and post a pic tomorrow.

I replaced a rusted out gearbox crossmember a few months back and put new rubber mounts on it at the same time.

Haven't taken it for a drive since. Will do it tomorrow and report back

Hello Pezwa,

Throttle return springs and Holden motors in Series vehicles - what fun!

I have the opposite issue. The return spring is too tight - It is supposedly an OEM replacement. I have a red motor 202 with a hybrid mechanical linkage that joins onto a Bodgey Brothers ex-motor bike clutch cable secured to bits of angle iron with fencing wire. The end of the cable fits onto a Dell'Orto half-moon bolted to the carburettor. Adjustment is via pulling on the cable and tightening up a pinch bolt. There is absolutely no fine adjustment to counteract the force of the spring.

I bought some new hand brake/clutch cable tension adjusters. The hollow bolt shape ones with a slot cut into it and a big knurled ring that takes up the slack in the cables. I just have to find what "safe place" I put them.

Good luck with your carburettor fine tuning.

Kind regards
Lionel

[JDNSW]

That spring on the bulkhead looks to me like an economy device. I have never seen one, only seen a picture of it in a factory brochure. It has a bracket (bent out of the way there) that the lever on the cross rod comes against at about half throttle, so that full throttle requires a lot more foot pressure.

If I am right, you have there a real piece of rare Landrover history.

I should also point out that there is a missing spring on the pivot mounted on the body next to the manifold - the spring on the carburettor is probably to replace this. Also, it is likely that free play in the linkage between this point and the throttle arm on the carburettor may have a similar effect to loose engine mounts, so that engine movement can affect throttle opening.

[1950landy]

I owned a Toyota L/C once ( that was enough) I needed to carry a petrol bowser with me it used so much fuel. I took it to a carby guy & he fitted a heaver spring on the throttle so I could feel when the second throat was about to open . So if I drove it off the second throat the fuel went from 8 MPG to 16 MPG[bigsmile1]

[Pezwa83]

Took it around the block today. No better! Jerky, jumpy, crap. Once it's rolling, it won't rev either, bogs down and dies. Starting to think clutch or really bad uni joints! Runs fine when sitting still.
Might just take it to a shop- support a local business

[JDNSW]

Make sure the handbrake is not dragging.

[Pezwa83]

How do I check that?

[mick88]

Took it around the block today. No better! Jerky, jumpy, crap. Once it's rolling, it won't rev either, bogs down and dies. Starting to think clutch or really bad uni joints! Runs fine when sitting still.
Might just take it to a shop- support a local business

Can you push it along easily when it's in neutral?
As john say's handbrake dragging, or maybe even brakes dragging.
Maybe jack it up and with it in neutral neutral see if each wheel spins freely.
Recheck the ignition timing too.
Is it getting plenty of air? Air cleaner might be clogged. (Reminds me of an old trick we used to play on our mates, stretch a piece of rag across the top of the carby under the air cleaner. The engine will rev well freely in neutral, but under load it would labor)


You certainly have thrown yourself a challenge.
Good Luck.

Cheers, Mick.

[Pezwa83]

Is this a ballast resistor?.........https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200415/dd34b866acf233ece176224013445d04.jpg

[mick88]

Circuit breaker to protect electrical circuit/wiring.
Does a a similar job to a fuse, but instead of switching the circuit off it just interrupts when there is a fault/short etc.
Somewhere on it there will be a Amperage rating.

A ballast resistor usually looks like this.

Cheers, Mick.

[bemm52]

Sorry to jump in here I am at the moment rewiring my 2a with a 202 from scratch with the help of Land Rover wiring diagram
The old wiring was a complete mess with heaps of switches and relays for who knows what so I pulled the whole lot out, in amongst the stuff I pulled out was a ballast resister like your photo
my question is where does it get wired in cant see it on the LR schematic so it's obviously a Holden thing
im going to use an electronic dizzy and suitable coil if this effects anything

Cheers Paul

[JDNSW]

Electronic ignition - no ballast. But it goes in the lead from the ignition switch to the coil. Not used on the Rover engine.

[Pezwa83]

Yep. 20A
Circuit breaker to protect electrical circuit/wiring.
Does a a similar job to a fuse, but instead of switching the circuit off it just interrupts when there is a fault/short etc.
Somewhere on it there will be a Amperage rating.

A ballast resistor usually looks like this.

Cheers, Mick.

[Pezwa83]

I was fishing around hoping to find something simple, as I have fitted electronic dissy., and still to wire in a new feed wire to the coil. Oh well, keep looking.

I have fit a clear fuel filter though. And noticed a few bubbles coming through the fuel line to the filter as it's idling. Could this prevent the bowl from filling?

[mick88]

Sorry to jump in here I am at the moment rewiring my 2a with a 202 from scratch with the help of Land Rover wiring diagram
The old wiring was a complete mess with heaps of switches and relays for who knows what so I pulled the whole lot out, in amongst the stuff I pulled out was a ballast resister like your photo
my question is where does it get wired in cant see it on the LR schematic so it's obviously a Holden thing
im going to use an electronic dizzy and suitable coil if this effects anything

Cheers Paul

G'day Paul,
if by an "electronic ignition" you mean you are using the Bosch HEI distributor as was used on later blue motors then consider using a Bosch HEC715 (high energy coil) as they are the best suited for the Bosch "High Energy Ignition" distributors. They are about $75 and available at Repco, Bursons, E-Bay, etc., they compliment the dizzy and make a very noticeable difference. A set of Irridium plugs are a good investment too.
As JD said, that ballast resistor was for use on pre HEI ignitions and used with lower voltage coils which were stamped "use with resistor" Earlier model Holdens had a "resistor wire" in the ignition circuit, coupled with the lower voltage coil.

Here is a pic of the HEC715 coil.

Cheers, Mick.

[mick88]

I was fishing around hoping to find something simple, as I have fitted electronic dissy., and still to wire in a new feed wire to the coil. Oh well, keep looking.

I have fit a clear fuel filter though. And noticed a few bubbles coming through the fuel line to the filter as it's idling. Could this prevent the bowl from filling?

A Test Light or a Multimeter should help you pick up a wire that is live when the ignition is turned on.
If its got fuel in the filter it should be ok, probably just that you have fitted the new filter, hopefully it will clear itself.
If it persists and causes you any grief you might have to go over all the connections on the suction line.

Cheers, Mick.