Video reviews

[Rob66]

Drive (not stationary) video review embargo ends on 25th March .. let's gather some links/videos here

[gromit]

Drive (not stationary) video review embargo ends on 25th March .. let's gather some links/videos here

Has this been the longest Launch to Release from any car company ever ?

The fact that there has actually been an embargo on driving videos also intrigues me.

I'll be interested to see what it's like when we see some unbiased videos, sorry, they'll probably be biased just not scripted by LR.


Colin

[veebs]

Agree, I feel like even without the COVID thing, the momentum has gone on this.
Perhaps people are done with waiting for it, or seeing it in action. Or maybe we’re just out of fresh information, and getting a bit bored...

[zilch]

only a few more days to go.. and usually Top gear tell it like it is..

YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uccBO95QiuI)

[scarry]

Apparently they were due on the docks here early April,demo models only.

That has been put off indefinitely.

[ramblingboy42]

just what we need......more ****ing video reviews.

we need input, input not more bull****.

[Rob66]

Of course the first reviews will be from JLR's favorite pets likely to give high marks.

[zilch]

Of course the first reviews will be from JLR's favorite pets likely to give high marks.

Rob i would hope the likes of Top gear will be more straight with people..

[discojools]

New Nine channel called 9Rush showing latest series of Top Gear starting around 5th April.

[Rob66]

Car Advice:
2020 Land Rover Defender review | CarAdvice (https://www.caradvice.com.au/832997/2020-land-rover-defender-review/)

Auto Express:
YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyFCwD_djZk)

Top Gear:
YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_qGCzGR-74)


Just a few...

[Gregz]

Somebody on another thread noticed that accessory fitting instructions are now available:

LAND ROVER ACCESSORY FITTING INSTRUCTIONS (http://accessories-instructions.landrover.com/enUSA/new-defender)

(I cannot see a winch, though)

[SBD4]

https://youtu.be/-_qGCzGR-74

[SBD4]

Matt can be a bit of an idiot at times...a funny one though.

https://youtu.be/e1r3Ce3129w

[SBD4]

Cricky, it's new defender night....another one:

https://youtu.be/_gI_Qbc5Kds

[scarry]

And another.
Demo vehicles were supposed to be here beginning of April,looks like that has been put off indefinitely.

YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rg9inpnrWkI)

[Tins]

https://youtu.be/CNkb3hAF9R4

[SBD4]

https://youtu.be/lyFCwD_djZk

[Tins]

https://youtu.be/rg9inpnrWkI

[scarry]

Somebody on another thread noticed that accessory fitting instructions are now available:

LAND ROVER ACCESSORY FITTING INSTRUCTIONS (http://accessories-instructions.landrover.com/enUSA/new-defender)

(I cannot see a winch, though)

Good find,gives some ideas how the vehicle is built as well..No Bull bar,but then it is US market accessories.

Mcgovern did say LR wanted a heap of accessories to keep the aftermarket guys away.

I think he is dreaming.They will make some fantastic aftermarket gear,probably available at half the price of LR.

[Tins]

https://youtu.be/DCPs2flOkZg

[ramblingboy42]

It's already becoming repetitious , every journo has done the best tests and has exclusive footage.

[Rob66]

The all drove the same route in Namibia (except for a couple in the UK) so reviews were bound to be similar.

[TB]

What I’m taking away from these reviews:

Sounds like LR has delivered a vehicle that - at least while it’s new and fully functional - will take you through some pretty challenging environments in a pretty relaxed manner. If your work required you to drive through out of the way places, you’d be wanting your vehicle to give you an experience of comfort and capability and practicality similar to what these journos have described. Some recreational off-road masochists would have a different set of priorities, but there are many people who would like to do outback touring in a 4WD that lives up to the claims that LR makes about this new vehicle.

The #1 question that these reviews can’t possibly answer is how reliable this Defender will be over time, especially in these sorts of conditions. And the #2 that follows immediately after that is how difficult and costly it is to make things right when something goes wrong unexpectedly.

I liked one of the comments in one video that apparently the limp modes are designed to retain much more of your capability envelope for exactly this reason – to increase your ability to recover from a tricky situation. And another which was that the plastic trim on doors, sills and bumpers is designed to break cleanly and be (relatively?) cheaply replaced. You could see a missing chunk on one of the UK test vehicles right behind the front left wheel in one review.

Very much looking forward to test driving a D240.

[Tins]

While it is easy to be impressed, it seems that all the journos on the Namibia trip were car journos. There didn't seem to be any specialist 4WD writers along. The tracks were of course chosen knowing the car could cope.

I like it, on first impression, but I'd wait for maybe a year. Let it bed in, see what the real world says. But I'd hazard the guess that LR will sell them by the shirtload. And I still believe it will become the logical successor to the D4. Minus the split tailgate, sadly.

[Red90]

Every video is another motoring journalist that has never driven off road in their lives. But they have no problem stating how good is is off road... Insane.

[gromit]

Orchestrated by Land Rover (as every launch is orchestrated by the manufacturer).
Journalists have been flown out at LR's expense so duty bound to reel off all the LR stats they've been given.

Looks like it meets the needs of a modern 'driver'....comfortable, entertainment system, tells you the water depth without you checking first etc. etc.
Problem is that the modern driver wants to change the vehicle as often as they change their smart phone, it'll be interesting to see how the resale value holds up.

Intrigued by the comment that the external plastic trim 'breaks cleanly' and is cheap to replace !? I wonder what they mean by cheap ?

I look forward to some real World test drives when the public can actually buy them.


Colin

[chuck]

Looking at what has been done on the trips in the reviews it does not look like they have tackled anything that i would not do in a Discovery whether that be 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5.

[Tins]

Looking at what has been done on the trips in the reviews it does not look like they have tackled anything that i would not do in a Discovery whether that be 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5.

My view also. I would not hesitate to tackle that stuff in my LRs, although I confess some of the downhill rock stuff might put me off in my SIII 109.[bigsad] [bigwhistle]And maybe the water crossings.... and.... The Discos though? No worries.

[chuck]

JT

Last time i drove a series III 109 I was a soldier which was a long time ago.

Driving LR's back then was work not pleasure lol

Used to have a well sorted D2 which at time ran 34" Simex JT2's - could not keep up with double locked Defenders but it used to do ok.

[Tins]

JT

Last time i drove a series III 109 I was a soldier which was a long time ago.



You were spoilt. We only had IIAs.

[SBD4]

Finally, from someone with some off road cred...

https://youtu.be/Dgx_RDTLpwQ

[Tins]

Not sure I agree. Who is he? I'm not seeing much here so far. He's trying harder, but I'm not convinced. Yet. It's the same stuff, same tracks, said different.

[Blknight.aus]

Yet to see them do something off road with one in any of the videos that I wouldn't do in pretty much any other landrover preceding it... (and that includes a petrol auto freeloader, hell for a sponsored trip I'd finish fozzy and take that)

[Tins]

Yet to see them do something off road with one in any of the videos that I wouldn't do in pretty much any other landrover preceding it... (and that includes a petrol auto freeloader, hell for a sponsored trip I'd finish fozzy and take that)

Yep. Camel Trophy anyone? That'd work.

[SBD4]

What I meant was, he is from an overlanding publication so, not the usual motoring journalist who knows nothing about being offroad. So, a more meaningful review than the other lot that have no idea:

Expedition Portal - The global resource for overland and adventure travel. (https://expeditionportal.com/)

I made no comment on the track itself and, yes I agree Dave, they cover stuff that you could do in almost any other 4wd.

[Tins]

Hmm...


https://youtu.be/FZ4uVOG7gsM

[loanrangie]

What I meant was, he is from an overlanding publication so, not the usual motoring journalist who knows nothing about being offroad. So, a more meaningful review than the other lot that have no idea:

Expedition Portal - The global resource for overland and adventure travel. (https://expeditionportal.com/)

I made no comment on the track itself and, yes I agree Dave, they cover stuff that you could do in almost any other 4wd.

I agree, only one i have watched that had any idea.

[ramblingboy42]

What I meant was, he is from an overlanding publication so, not the usual motoring journalist who knows nothing about being offroad. So, a more meaningful review than the other lot that have no idea:

Expedition Portal - The global resource for overland and adventure travel. (https://expeditionportal.com/)

I made no comment on the track itself and, yes I agree Dave, they cover stuff that you could do in almost any other 4wd.

no, it's no more meaningful than the others, I think they have a script to maintain , so much of the wording from every journo sounds the same.

[SBD4]

A Q&A follow up to the carfection review:

https://youtu.be/RP18WOVjDM4

[DiscoMick]

YouTube (https://youtu.be/rg9inpnrWkI)

[DiscoMick]

YouTube (https://youtu.be/-_qGCzGR-74)

[Gregz]

Edit - video was posted earlier

[SBD4]

Not a bad review once you get past the first 5 minutes or so:

https://youtu.be/M3_HDRc22IY

[DiscoMick]

I must say, after seeing these videos from Namibia, I have revised my opinion that its not a workhorse. I think a stripped down version could be a workhorse, but the base price is still too high.

[zilch]

New Zealand coming out of lock down, so a late contribution to the Namibia trip

Giving the all-new Land Rover Defender the beans in Namibia - Reviews - Driven (https://www.driven.co.nz/reviews/giving-the-all-new-land-rover-defender-the-beans-in-namibia/?fbclid=IwAR0pATs9a2cnDusFA-Beq9QkrRIsFAh2XXvR91DFIiRZjQAYgU-gRbZf0AQ)

[Bulletman]

New Zealand coming out of lock down, so a late contribution to the Namibia trip

Giving the all-new Land Rover Defender the beans in Namibia - Reviews - Driven (https://www.driven.co.nz/reviews/giving-the-all-new-land-rover-defender-the-beans-in-namibia/?fbclid=IwAR0pATs9a2cnDusFA-Beq9QkrRIsFAh2XXvR91DFIiRZjQAYgU-gRbZf0AQ)

Link says price as $107,900.. wow.

Bulletman

[Rob66]

Link says price as $107,900.. wow.

Bulletman


Kiwi website, and their prices are always pretty wicked for new cars. A lot of factors come in to play. Size of the market, shipping costs, wages, tax, RHD market (circa 10% global sales) etc, etc.

[ramblingboy42]

Some dealership, because they wont allow identification, claim to have 3 new Defender 110 Demos for sale in Queensland, from $86,000.

This was on Carsales Site yesterday.

[Tins]

https://youtu.be/aGvXEu72ao8

[TB]

Makes me wish I was behind the wheel. These things can't get here quick enough.

[ramblingboy42]

that "music" was almost making me nauseous, why can't we hear the vehicles working

I reckon 90% of the crap we have seen and heard is unnecessary , ffs , get on with it.

[zilch]

auto express UK article on the P400..

New Land Rover Defender P400 2020 review | Auto Express (https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/land-rover/defender/352281/new-land-rover-defender-p400-2020-review)

[DiscoMick]

Excellent report on the JLR factory building the new Defender at Nitra in Sovakia in the April issue of LRO, if you haven't already seen it.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200520/bdbbc57f9c14d5f635317d1464db85b6.jpg

[SBD4]

An interesting discussion between the blokes from TFL and Scott Brady from Expedition Portal who drove the new Defender in Namibia.

Put youtube on X2 to get through it in reasonable time (if your ears can keep up[wink11]):

https://youtu.be/vNRf5hzADiE

[Epic_Dragon]

Oh gosh I love the new Defenders [emoji7] never will be able to own one in this lifetime [emoji3064] i hope to at least get a ride in one oneday [emoji119]

[TB]

An interesting discussion between the blokes from TFL and Scott Brady from Expedition Portal who drove the new Defender in Namibia.


One of the best bits about that discussion is the report that LR tested the new vehicle on 35" rubber to ensure it could hold up under the inevitable modification.

[zilch]

wait for it.. patience [bigwhistle]

New Defender on Instagram: “At least it’s not the New Defender 😆😆 📸 @wvjagroverguy . . . . . . . #newdefender #defender90 #defender110 #landrover #landy #offroad…” (https://www.instagram.com/p/CAqgKv5ghGI/?fbclid=IwAR2AeqYsFXX9B1_-qUIIHYUYZdwKvzKjzTdsq5cPF_00QM5SdwY1TCWXveE)

[grey_ghost]

Hi All,

Not sure if these have been posted before - this guy isn't a journalist, rather an owner of a current Defender - and he tested a new one.

YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWKyL-OQUco)

YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxU8ognQSUE)

Cheers,
GG.

[TB]

The guy was puzzled by the huge fuel filler door. Well here's the explanation:

https://www.ownerinfo.landrover.com/document/3E/2020/proc/graphic/E249203/en/USA

On his P300 demonstrator that hole was covered by a rubber bung.

The Adblue tank is 20.7L apparently, which at their quoted "average" consumption rate should be good for around 16,000km. 85L of diesel capacity on the 110, a smidge less on the 90.

[zilch]

there seems to be a number of new Videos being posted by people are picking up their new Defenders in the UK.. not really that enlightening, apart from
the restricted performance in the first one not long after leaving the show room :)

YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gj4xGgYKeFw&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR2jwm7fHu5cZwsK7AcHB9J1vds3Jvaf1ZynNHDli h6LB9rTt9cJlMnFV1Q)

YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaDerfN2u24&fbclid=IwAR2j2SO-GgsGF5opdnDoDvI3k_T5zISVbA5df1fkhxNOtj7iocuZNvtG6w A)

[loanrangie]

The flood gates have opened.

[4runnernomore]

My head hurts

YouTube (https://youtu.be/Z5IJkeK_0j0)

Ho/to talk explains the tech and functions [bighmmm]

[ozscott]

You are kidding me. Restricted Performance warning on the way home from the dealer...give me strength.

Cheers

[TB]

My head hurts

YouTube (https://youtu.be/Z5IJkeK_0j0)

Ho/to talk explains the tech and functions [bighmmm]

Sorry Captain America but you've been out of the world for a while. The year is 2020 and you're gonna find a few things a bit... different to what you're used to.

[tonguewink]

[grey_ghost]

You are kidding me. Restricted Performance warning on the way home from the dealer...give me strength.

Cheers

Yeah I noticed that. Certainly not a good look !

[veebs]

You are kidding me. Restricted Performance warning on the way home from the dealer...give me strength.

Cheers

Credit to him for continuing home. I think would have turned around immediately with a 'please explain'

[TB]

Credit to him for continuing home. I think would have turned around immediately with a 'please explain'

It did also say something about being "OK to drive" or "safe to drive". Scary looking red light and all, but maybe a car with only 20 miles on it was just letting this enthusiastic driver who was playing with sports mode and manual gear shifts know that it was going to be holding back a little.

Will be interesting to see the follow-up vids.

[ozscott]

It did also say something about being "OK to drive" or "safe to drive". Scary looking red light and all, but maybe a car with only 20 miles on it was just letting this enthusiastic driver who was playing with sports mode and manual gear shifts know that it was going to be holding back a little.

Will be interesting to see the follow-up vids.I wonder if it's that smart or whether it's just proving it's a real Land Rover...

I have asked him so I will see what he says.

Cheers

[Geedublya]

I good look underneath.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eL1r_nOwdOQ

[TB]

I want to see that again but with the underbody panels taken off

[zilch]

be interesting to know what the black "protection" plates if that is the right word were made of, it looked like some basic composite
material, nothing substantial .. whereas the engine seems to get a piece of steel..

[rick130]

I wonder if it's that smart or whether it's just proving it's a real Land Rover...

I have asked him so I will see what he says.

Cheers
You are kidding me. Restricted Performance warning on the way home from the dealer...give me strength.

CheersIt might just be a literal restricted/reduced power output until X number of miles are up to let the CWP's, engine, etc run in a bit.

Chev do that with the Corvette, and I'm sure other manufacturers do it these days, too.

[ozscott]

I hope so Rick. I was a little dismayed to see it. Having said that the owner has posted that there is no answer yet as to why the warning showed up. Its possible that the dealer might not know about a run in or low k warning but you would think that would be the first think LR told the dealers about. Anyway keen to see what the dealer/LR tell this bloke going forward.

Cheers

[rick130]

I hope so Rick. I was a little dismayed to see it. Having said that the owner has posted that there is no answer yet as to why the warning showed up. Its possible that the dealer might not know about a run in or low k warning but you would think that would be the first think LR told the dealers about. Anyway keen to see what the dealer/LR tell this bloke going forward.

CheersMy first thought was the same as yours and I was doing this too [emoji849]

But then I remembered that a few manufacturers are limiting the torque output for a little while so owners don't overdo things during that initial phase

[veebs]

My first thought was the same as yours and I was doing this too [emoji849]

But then I remembered that a few manufacturers are limiting the torque output for a little while so owners don't overdo things during that initial phase

Then why not say that in the message? We aren’t limited to 640kb of memory here, just say ‘settle down driver, still running in here’.

[Geedublya]

Comparison with D4.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2fBTD12YtQ

[Tins]

Comparison with D4.



Came here to post this exact vid. I'm not at all sure how helpful the guy is, but at 4:25 he asks the exact question I've been asking from the start. Is this the proper next Disco? Is the 5 a very capable SUV and the Defender the next great tourer?

I really want to see one in the metal.

[spie]

If you took the letters off the bonnet and told me the one on the left was a D4 I wouldn't argue...

[Red90]

Came here to post this exact vid. I'm not at all sure how helpful the guy is, but at 4:25 he asks the exact question I've been asking from the start. Is this the proper next Disco? Is the 5 a very capable SUV and the Defender the next great tourer?

I really want to see one in the metal.

Except the 4 has a much larger cargo area with a tailgate and lift gate. That makes it much more useful.

[Tins]

Except the 4 has a much larger cargo area with a tailgate and lift gate. That makes it much more useful.

Yes. Been mentioned before. RRs still do. But the old Defender didn't. Maybe that is LRs rationale. Who can tell?

[Tins]

https://youtu.be/eGrDmnP8jPg

[Red90]

Yes. Been mentioned before. RRs still do. But the old Defender didn't. Maybe that is LRs rationale. Who can tell?

You could put a tailgate and lift gate on a Defender. That was what was great about them. Any way you wanted them.

[SBD4]

First one in a bit of dirt - It's in Slovakian...so If anyone can translate ;)... here's the translated description:


Land Rover Defender proves that it is enough to make one and rather a successful model for each century. For this 21st, the off-road is already ready and I am proud that it is produced in Slovakia. Of course, in this video we will not avoid the terrain.

I like the light test for the trailer and was surprised to see it get up a greasy little hill on HT tyres.


https://youtu.be/kp6xGn4wOlE

[loanrangie]

Quite a good review i thought besides not understanding a word he said, good to see him give it some stick on the mx track and while towing.

[SBD4]

Quite a good review i thought besides not understanding a word he said, good to see him give it some stick on the mx track and while towing.
I think they're quite proud to be manufacturing the Defender in their country, rightly so too. Hopefully that pride will translate to product quality as well.

BTW only in those Eastern European countries will you find a benchmark that involves measuring 1-100 times when towing a trailer with a car on it.[biggrin]

[ramblingboy42]

why the hell are they selling these with HT tyres?

[TB]

why the hell are they selling these with HT tyres?

In Australia they’re not, at least if the spec sheet is accurate. I heard they’re going straight to Goodyear Wrangler AT Adventure but the size is not a standard one.

[loanrangie]

why the hell are they selling these with HT tyres?

Yeah bit of a wtf but i was surprised how well it did on those slippery muddy surfaces with road slicks on.

[loanrangie]

I hope so Rick. I was a little dismayed to see it. Having said that the owner has posted that there is no answer yet as to why the warning showed up. Its possible that the dealer might not know about a run in or low k warning but you would think that would be the first think LR told the dealers about. Anyway keen to see what the dealer/LR tell this bloke going forward.

CheersThey just posted a follow up, a lose hose was the cause that the owner found himself and the AA and LR assist couldn't find .

[ozscott]

They just posted a follow up, a lose hose was the cause that the owner found himself and the AA and LR assist couldn't find .Thanks mate. Bugger...its still a LR [emoji16][emoji1787].

Cheers

[rick130]

They just posted a follow up, a lose hose was the cause that the owner found himself and the AA and LR assist couldn't find .
Thanks mate. Bugger...its still a LR [emoji16][emoji1787].

CheersDo we do eye rolls or just laugh because otherwise you'd cry? [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

[zilch]

In Australia they’re not, at least if the spec sheet is accurate. I heard they’re going straight to Goodyear Wrangler AT Adventure but the size is not a standard one.

spot on, confirmed by my dealer as the build sheet for my order was not specific. I would have
preferred Duratracs, but they are after market, not a LR option it seems

[loanrangie]

Do we do eye rolls or just laugh because otherwise you'd cry? [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

So they might be slow-vakians after all [bigrolf].

[zilch]

New Defender on Chinamans trail in Colorado..

Login • Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/p/CBhipmTjo5A/)

[DazzaTD5]

Yes. Been mentioned before. RRs still do. But the old Defender didn't. Maybe that is LRs rationale. Who can tell?

The old Defender didnt, just like the new one doesnt... because the spare wheel is mounted on it. Far better than the stupid underneath idea

[INter674]

New Defender on Chinamans trail in Colorado..

Login • Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/p/CBhipmTjo5A/)

Impressive performance for a standard car....

[ozscott]

It is impressive. Stiff as a board up high, but tyres WAY down and good traction systems did the trick.

Cheers

[TB]

It is impressive. Stiff as a board up high, but tyres WAY down and good traction systems did the trick.

Cheers

KO2s are terrible for traction on surfaces like that (ask me how I know) so the fact that it managed to get up those climbs with a bit of persistence was pretty cool. Judging from the way the wheels were moving I don’t think that one had the locking rear diff. I’d hope for an even better performance with the rear and centre diffs clutched together.

[INter674]

Re rear locker...yes agree it would help in those circumstances but even so the TC is impressive in its working. Just look at vids of Jap cars to see how their system just don't work as well.

Interestingly Y62 owners fitting rear locker only are reporting that the TC system basically cuts out...its get confused😞 so the solution is to fit lockers each end and engage both.. which can result in some scary steering issues on steep slippery slopes. CVs on Y62 and 200s are also clearly now a problem area off road...and expensive too.

Will be interesting to see how the new Defender transmission etc holds up.

[loanrangie]

That video pretty much trumps all the previous motoring journo reviews by far, good to see it in a real life off road situation. Would be good to find some way to fit a front bar.

[zilch]

That video pretty much trumps all the previous motoring journo reviews by far, good to see it in a real life off road situation. Would be good to find some way to fit a front bar.

there are pictures on the net of lucky8’s new Defender with the front removed, so assume they have
something in the pipeline

Login • Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/p/CBTiM0jpORk/)

[zilch]

a German review in English


https://youtu.be/ym9AHGjoMK4

[zilch]

PowerfulUK ltd giving their P300 a bit of wellie to determine its 0-60mph time

YouTube (https://youtu.be/5EI8GHBW5MA)

[Rob66]

PowerfulUK ltd giving their P300 a bit of wellie to determine its 0-60mph time

YouTube (https://youtu.be/5EI8GHBW5MA)

6.0 / 6.6 is not bad for a 2400kg car with a 2 litre motor

[ozscott]

Couple of things spring to mind. 60mph is not 100kph and it's often the case that a gear change occurs between 60mph and 63mph (often because Euro cars are designed with the magic 60mph in mind not 100kph). And accelerometer apps on a phone are far from accurate and there is a delay as they pick up the fact that there is acceleration.

I Reckon the 2 litre petrol.hauling the defender will in real terms be several seconds slower.

Cheers

[INter674]

Sounds good tho☺

[ramblingboy42]

umm its hmh not kph....always has been

[ozscott]

Someone has too much time on their hands [emoji1787]. I was thinking in MPH at the time which I grew up with (which is why I know 60 miles per hour is not 100 kimometres per hour). But thanks for the correction [emoji106].

Cheers

[ramblingboy42]

I wonder if forum members might give a reason why they are posting videos of the Defender. Every one I have seen is the same, nothing different. Seems I'm wasting my time opening another review.

I guess until next year or when ever Land Rover Australia honestly , really, actually, release this vehicle here there is nothing more to see.

3 years of so much bull**** has just about turned me to Toyota.

In the meantime other manufacturers world wide have designed and released about 40 new vehicles onto the market.

[Rob66]

Maybe the forum members are excited about the Defender-2 replacing a model that has been around since the early 80's .. maybe forum members will ignore the pointless negative opinions of others .. maybe forum members do not care if some members go and buy a Toyota (as long as they take their drivel with them).

[DiscoMick]

The July 4x 4 Australia magazine I bought today has a good rundown of the Defender options available here and local prices. Worth reading. Good value magaine, I think, I'm going to subscribe.

[gromit]

Maybe the forum members are excited about the Defender-2 replacing a model that has been around since the early 80's .. maybe forum members will ignore the pointless negative opinions of others .. maybe forum members do not care if some members go and buy a Toyota (as long as they take their drivel with them).

Maybe forum members aren't convinced the new Land Rover should have been called a 'Defender' (when did it become a Defender-2 ?)
Maybe forum members see it potentially as a luxury 4WD rather than a down to earth workhorse it's replacing.

So far masses of hype, launched well before it was ready for sale, lots of 'controlled' testing.....it'll be interesting to see how the sales go once it's finally launched in Australia.

I wish them all the best with it but it certainly isn't something I'd buy.....OK maybe years down the track when it's price is down to a sensible level.


Colin

[DiscoDB]

Possibly already posted - certainly an impressive climb.

YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frTPchIuD4U)

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200630/1b314ba902f1c5ff09c408f60d815555.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200630/24f77d28f2358e9c21c12eb8c0563135.jpg

[scarry]

So far masses of hype, launched well before it was ready for sale, lots of 'controlled' testing


Colin

They say it was released early, because it 'Had' to be in the Bond movie.

How much truth is in that,who knows.

[INter674]

I wonder if forum members might give a reason why they are posting videos of the Defender. Every one I have seen is the same, nothing different. Seems I'm wasting my time opening another review.

I guess until next year or when ever Land Rover Australia honestly , really, actually, release this vehicle here there is nothing more to see.

3 years of so much bull**** has just about turned me to Toyota.

In the meantime other manufacturers world wide have designed and released about 40 new vehicles onto the market.

Gotta factor in the Covid issue too which has affected all car makers. Daughter's partner's boss waited 8 months for a new 200s recently. He cancelled the order due to business issues. But when things picked he was able to get one within weeks. So...its all about supply and demand and Aus is 3/5 of 2/3 of the global market..even for Toyota.

Go buy one..I'm sure you will be impressed by the high price and lack of features and dinosaur looks. But love the resale value after it dissapoints on just about every metric. Just my HO tho.

Where is the new 300s which a Toy salesman last Dec said would be here early this year?

Me I love those vids ..keep em coming☺

[gromit]

Gotta factor in the Covid issue too which has affected all car makers.

The Defender was 'launched' well before Covid which has further added to the delay.

Colin

[DiscoMick]

Aus prices start at $69,900, I read, while a 200 starts at $80k and a Sahara is $125,000.
4 x 4 Australia specced up their idea of an ideal new Defender and it totalled $95,000, so that's a significant saving on a 200 with desirable options.

Incidentally, their July issue has a story on the Bruce Davis auto conversion for Puma Defenders using the Ranger auto.

[INter674]

Here is a recent Carsales comment re the 300s launch:

Originally slated for a*July 2020 reveal*but now pushed back to 2021, the LC300 is expected.....

Like the Defender...there's been media about the new Cruiser for at least 2 years I know of..which has also caused some panic buying esp amongst vehicle modifiers who know the 300s won't be able to be chopped...hence SILs boss getting a pov pack 200s now. Pity cause he makes shed loads of cash cutting them up. I laugh everytime i see the back of a brand new 200s sitting on the scrap heap🤤

Mmm wonder what the problem is😞

Anyhow..at least the Defer is now on the road and looking good too.

[SBD4]

Not a review...more like test. A very short test:


https://youtu.be/IelI3BSDOeg

[SBD4]

https://youtu.be/QJIkNRC29Xk

[ozscott]

Defender 2?

2021 Best of Bronco in 10 minutes - YouTube (https://youtu.be/6n7Kou6LmvU)

Cheers [emoji16]

[rick130]

Comparativa 4x4 ¡al límite!: Land Rover Defender vs Mercedes Clase G | Prueba off road | Diariomotor - YouTube (https://youtu.be/-KL8eWzx-8o)

[Edit] Hint, the G-Wagen does most everything more easily

[ozscott]

Comparativa 4x4 ¡al límite!: Land Rover Defender vs Mercedes Clase G | Prueba off road | Diariomotor - YouTube (https://youtu.be/-KL8eWzx-8o)

[Edit] Hint, the G-Wagen does most everything more easilyNice Rick. The Defender is very impressive for an all round IS vehicle. Would have to be the best IS production car around. But it's not in the same class off-road as well set up live axle coiler with lockers. In this test if the Defender had the locking rear it would have helped but would still not have been quite what the Merc is. The tow test at the end was a bit of fun. Low down Torque and lockers won the day convincingly on that test. Setting aside reliability arguments Land Rover appear to have built the best allrounder 4wd vehicle. Cheers

[INter674]

Comparativa 4x4 ¡al límite!: Land Rover Defender vs Mercedes Clase G | Prueba off road | Diariomotor - YouTube (https://youtu.be/-KL8eWzx-8o)

[Edit] Hint, the G-Wagen does most everything more easily

Guess it should given lockers.

What is the price difference?

[ozscott]

I thought it can only be had with rear locker? On some of those steep parts the front locker is a boon. Cheers

[INter674]

Defender 2?

2021 Best of Bronco in 10 minutes - YouTube (https://youtu.be/6n7Kou6LmvU)

Cheers [emoji16]

Ford really has tried to hit all the buttons☺

Price will be the major factor wrt sales...a reasonable price plus reliability will equal a winner worldwide. Jeep has to be very worried now...Jeep will have to lift their game significantly or quit!

[INter674]

Defender 2?

2021 Best of Bronco in 10 minutes - YouTube (https://youtu.be/6n7Kou6LmvU)

Cheers [emoji16]

35" tyres standard....wonder how the cops will manage that one😁

But they are factory sir....no mate...you'll have to do a swerve and braking test...but...but..😣

Hopefully like light bars...eventually the cops will get over bigger wheels and tyres. It was a bit silly when they were fining for light bars when their own cars had them fitted as std🙄

[rick130]

One of the things I dislike with the air suspension is the lack of droop travel when raised, but you'd need the travel of Trophy Truck to get around it.
The teeter tottering would annoy me.
It reminded me of a stock 130 without a load in the rear, lifting wheels and lurching when crossed up.

I love how the old Rangies without anti roll bars articulate, the chassis stays relatively level and wheels move up and down.
Jeep's CJ's prior to 1975, all the way back to the military MB would do the same, it just made for a comfortable, controllable off road experience.

I was surprised at how the loose stuff caught out the TC a little, and how much more controllable the G was even with HT's vs the Wrangler AT's of the Deefer.
I wonder how even having an ATB in the rear diff would reduce the wheel spin in that situation? [emoji848]

[rick130]

35" tyres standard....wonder how the cops will manage that one[emoji16]

But they are factory sir....no mate...you'll have to do a swerve and braking test...but...but..[emoji21]

Hopefully like light bars...eventually the cops will get over bigger wheels and tyres. It was a bit silly when they were fining for light bars when their own cars had them fitted as std[emoji849]The same way they cope with the AMG G-Class with its side exiting exhausts in front of the rear wheels with four doors?

Or what Jeep was it that had roof mounted spotties?

All moot as while it'll be on Ford Oz's shopping list, it might be a few years before were see it.

[SBD4]

Comparativa 4x4 ¡al límite!: Land Rover Defender vs Mercedes Clase G | Prueba off road | Diariomotor - YouTube (https://youtu.be/-KL8eWzx-8o)

[Edit] Hint, the G-Wagen does most everything more easily
Excellent technical comparison. I would add a couple of things, for the break over test he obviously didn't know how to engage the super extended mode...still might not have succeeded but would have been fun to see. Perhaps he should have had the G do the same tests without front and rear lockers to highlight how good LRs ETC is and finally he perhaps should have done the test with a Defender that was equipped with rear locker.

On the face of it a great demonstration of the differences between ETC and fully locked vehicle. No doubt there's less fuss with the G.

[ozscott]

Rick the tottering is the word I was looking for. In my mind I described it was being on its tip toes or Pointe but not in a graceful way. Hardly a ballerina.

I had forgotten about the big difference in tyres on that test. I have HT 31 inch on my Triton and 31 inch Duratracs on my D2. Stark grip difference...so this makes the Merc's extra ability off-road in these variety of climbs very solid.

Cheers

[rick130]

I was also wondering what tyre pressures they were running, we all know what a difference that can make.

[Graeme]

The Defender would have been far more capable, not just a little more capable, if it had the rear e-diff so IMO it was silly to have such a hard-core comparison without it.

[ozscott]

They may well run it again Graeme with a locker. I agree but reckon it still won't beat the G Wagen. Put Duratracs on the G Wagen and the G Wagen would be further ahead again.

Cheers

[rick130]

Excellent technical comparison. I would add a couple of things, for the break over test he obviously didn't know how to engage the super extended mode...still might not have succeeded but would have been fun to see. Perhaps he should have had the G do the same tests without front and rear lockers to highlight how good LRs ETC is and finally he perhaps should have done the test with a Defender that was equipped with rear locker.

On the face of it a great demonstration of the differences between ETC and fully locked vehicle. No doubt there's less fuss with the G.Yes, it would've been good just to compare the ETC systems on both, but the G has always had Lockers

A fellow on YouTube did a few vids on his D2 claiming an ATB was useless.
He cross axled the car over a ditch in the snow, disabled the TC, unlocked the centre diff and when it sat there wheel spinning the unloaded wheel, proclaimed the ATB useless. [emoji849]
Funnily enough the car drove out with the centre diff locked and the TC fuse back in, so it wouldn't make sense to test the G without engaging the lockers, they are there stock, but an extra cost option on the Deefer.

MB has always fitted lockers to the G, and more power to them for continuing to do so.
I'm guessing the cost of the hardware (lockers) would outweigh the software development costs of TC over a production cycle?
I think it appears to come down to a difference in engineering design philosophy between the two marques.

[RANDLOVER]

Excellent technical comparison. I would add a couple of things, for the break over test he obviously didn't know how to engage the super extended mode...still might not have succeeded but would have been fun to see. Perhaps he should have had the G do the same tests without front and rear lockers to highlight how good LRs ETC is and finally he perhaps should have done the test with a Defender that was equipped with rear locker.

On the face of it a great demonstration of the differences between ETC and fully locked vehicle. No doubt there's less fuss with the G.

I agree, I'm not sure it even bottomed out/touched the ground in that ramp over test, I don't know how similar the TR(2) is to a Discovery's as it should've have gone Super Extended.

[INter674]

One of the things I dislike with the air suspension is the lack of droop travel when raised, but you'd need the travel of Trophy Truck to get around it.
The teeter tottering would annoy me.
It reminded me of a stock 130 without a load in the rear, lifting wheels and lurching when crossed up.

I love how the old Rangies without anti roll bars articulate, the chassis stays relatively level and wheels move up and down.
Jeep's CJ's prior to 1975, all the way back to the military MB would do the same, it just made for a comfortable, controllable off road experience.

I was surprised at how the loose stuff caught out the TC a little, and how much more controllable the G was even with HT's vs the Wrangler AT's of the Deefer.
I wonder how even having an ATB in the rear diff would reduce the wheel spin in that situation? [emoji848]

Rear diff lock or LSD makes heaps of difference. With the Patrol eg..the LSD is capable of launching the car off one rear wheel..same with the locked diff. The LR TC is very very good but simply can't match a locked diff esp up hill on loose surfaces..hence it scrambles...it gets there just looks messy.

Wrg to droop..you really don't need it with TC or lockers. Looks neater but functionally it is not needed for traction if the TC works well or LSD/lockers are engaged. Under body clearance is far more important to avoid hanging up which will cease momentum and do damage to the underbody and drive train. Big lifts and massive suspension travel are old school😎

[Graeme]

for the break over test he obviously didn't know how to engage the super extended modeIIRC extended and super-extended modes are selectable on the Defender and pretty much confirmed when the tester lowered the vehicle a little as lowering from OR2 to OR1 is not a user option, instead strictly speed controlled with only raising from OR1 to OR2 a user option if the vehicle was lowered from OR2 automatically.

[rick130]

Rear diff lock or LSD makes heaps of difference. With the Patrol eg..the LSD is capable of launching the car off one rear wheel..same with the locked diff. The LR TC is very very good but simply can't match a locked diff esp up hill on loose surfaces..hence it scrambles...it gets there just looks messy.

Wrg to droop..you really don't need it with TC or lockers. Looks neater but functionally it is not needed for traction if the TC works well or LSD/lockers are engaged. Under body clearance is far more important to avoid hanging up which will cease momentum and do damage to the underbody and drive train. Big lifts and massive suspension travel are old school[emoji41]

I'll disagree with the last sentence, although I'm not into big lifts, two wheels on an end still driving gives control and more traction than dangling one wheel.

For extreme examines have a look at anything put together by Bill Larman. Shame Bill doesn't post here anymore.

And yes, the old Patrol H233 and H260 LSD's are bloody good.
Miles better than Toyota's offerings which were often worn out on the drive home from picking up the new car, or so most felt.

[ozscott]

Rear diff lock or LSD makes heaps of difference. With the Patrol eg..the LSD is capable of launching the car off one rear wheel..same with the locked diff. The LR TC is very very good but simply can't match a locked diff esp up hill on loose surfaces..hence it scrambles...it gets there just looks messy.

Wrg to droop..you really don't need it with TC or lockers. Looks neater but functionally it is not needed for traction if the TC works well or LSD/lockers are engaged. Under body clearance is far more important to avoid hanging up which will cease momentum and do damage to the underbody and drive train. Big lifts and massive suspension travel are old school[emoji41]The Merc of course didn't have a big lift but it's got decent travel and the live axle causes huge force through the wheel in the hole...cross linked air suspension simulates that but it's not quite the same... so live axles, lockers and decent clearance still wins off road. On Road sure it's a different story no argument there.

Cheers

[ozscott]

Sadly for this comparison the Benz is far from the last word in offload production vehicles. Take for eg (as much as it pains me to use the J word) a stock Rubicon. Sway bar disconnects and lockers and it would make both of those vehicles look very pedestrian on that course.

And the Bronco looks to give Jeep an off-road lesson for a stocker with factory bead locked 35 inch wheels and likely good suspension.

Touring and load carrying tbe new Defender has it all over Jeep and Ford.

Cheers

[INter674]

Travelled a lot with a Rubicon in Vic hc and was impressed by its ability out of the box but with larger wheels and tyres. It was as good as the stock GQ shortie with us but not as controllable due to an overly sensitive throttle which caused too much wheelspin esp up rocky tracks. Auto and tc and stability control worked well too. Roof leaked in the rain and it ate petrol alarmingly. Interior space is pretty poor too but for the money it was good value.

Unfortunately resale price was terrible. Owner has a Perentie now which is better off road but worse for many other things🙄

Another mate had a twin locked Rubicon diesel which is very good off road but suffers from front uni joint problems and the Italian engine is....well Italian! It has had a shed load spent already and now needs upgraded unis etc.

Both Jeeps ride/rode uncomfortably off road with both swaying side to side. You see this in US and other jeep Youtube vids too..and its not a good feeling on a long trip.

[ozscott]

Travelled a lot with a Rubicon in Vic hc and was impressed by its ability out of the box but with larger wheels and tyres. It was as good as the stock GQ shortie with us but not as controllable due to an overly sensitive throttle which caused too much wheelspin esp up rocky tracks. Auto and tc and stability control worked well too. Roof leaked in the rain and it ate petrol alarmingly. Interior space is pretty poor too but for the money it was good value.

Unfortunately resale price was terrible. Owner has a Perentie now which is better off road but worse for many other things[emoji849]

Another mate had a twin locked Rubicon diesel which is very good off road but suffers from front uni joint problems and the Italian engine is....well Italian! It has had a shed load spent already and now needs upgraded unis etc.

Both Jeeps ride/rode uncomfortably off road with both swaying side to side. You see this in US and other jeep Youtube vids too..and its not a good feeling on a long trip.Mate I wouldn't buy one. Would never happen for me. The Americans love them.

Cheers

[rick130]

Travelled a lot with a Rubicon in Vic hc and was impressed by its ability out of the box but with larger wheels and tyres. It was as good as the stock GQ shortie with us but not as controllable due to an overly sensitive throttle which caused too much wheelspin esp up rocky tracks. Auto and tc and stability control worked well too. Roof leaked in the rain and it ate petrol alarmingly. Interior space is pretty poor too but for the money it was good value.

Unfortunately resale price was terrible. Owner has a Perentie now which is better off road but worse for many other things🙄

Another mate had a twin locked Rubicon diesel which is very good off road but suffers from front uni joint problems and the Italian engine is....well Italian! It has had a shed load spent already and now needs upgraded unis etc.

Both Jeeps ride/rode uncomfortably off road with both swaying side to side. You see this in US and other jeep Youtube vids too..and its not a good feeling on a long trip.

Was the first one a Rubi or stock Wrangler?

A Rubi is a weapon off road, 33" tyres, double diff locks, 4:1 t/case ratio and a brilliant low/low, anti-roll bar disconnects and a front end that really flexes, unlike our radius arm front ends that need some work to wiggle. IMO nothing off the shelf can get within a bulls roar of it in the rough.

[INter674]

Was the first one a Rubi or stock Wrangler?

A Rubi is a weapon off road, 33" tyres, double diff locks, 4:1 t/case ratio and a brilliant low/low, anti-roll bar disconnects and a front end that really flexes, unlike our radius arm front ends that need some work to wiggle. IMO nothing off the shelf can get within a bulls roar of it in the rough.

Yes...stock..my mistake.

Rubicon is def v good off road cept for the front uni joints which pop the retainers and fall apart. They've been tig welded for now until the cromos arrive. As for the diesel engine...time will tell.

On the last trip it ran well on 35s but so did the gq shorty petrol on 35s with LSD only ...which did all the hard lines. The unlocked turbo Perentie on 33s had the edge on crawl tho but suffered from the plough Sals diff which was opened up on a rock...otherwise it drove almost everything with ease.

Jeeps are def good value but do need some basic drivetrain mods..which are readily available ex US.

[rick130]

Re the Sals in the Perentie, tell him you can cut 19mm off easily without compromising strength.
Use a HD diff cover, relocate the bottom bolt and cut away.

I just loctited the drain plug in place and ground it too.
That small mod gives you near the clearance of the Rover diff.

There's an old thread of mine here somewhere if he's interested.

[INter674]

Re the Sals in the Perentie, tell him you can cut 19mm off easily without compromising strength.
Use a HD diff cover, relocate the bottom bolt and cut away.

I just loctited the drain plug in place and ground it too.
That small mod gives you near the clearance of the Rover diff.

There's an old thread of mine here somewhere if he's interested.

Thanks..yes it's on his list..after beefing up the front first plus locker ☺

[ozscott]

Does The New 2020 Land Rover Defender DOMINATE Off-Road? Jeep Gladiator vs New & Old Defender Review - YouTube (https://youtu.be/goPuC73EUug)

IRS, IFS v Old School.

Cheers

[ozscott]

Those alloy lower arms are vulnerable. Reckon too much rock work would see them in the bin. Capable vehicle, albeit bouncy rough ride at full height, but for regular rock hopping buy an old Deefer, RRC, d1, d2 etc and enjoy.

Cheers

[ScottyD]

Does The New 2020 Land Rover Defender DOMINATE Off-Road? Jeep Gladiator vs New & Old Defender Review - YouTube (https://youtu.be/goPuC73EUug)

IRS, IFS v Old School.

Cheers

That sure wasn't a good show for the new Defender.
My D4 in those relatively grippy situations feels like it goes a lot better than that new Defender did (hard to go off of video's I know).
I hope a rear diff lock makes a big difference. Would have also been good if they didn't run those rods for added lift all the time.

[cripesamighty]

In regards to the TFL video comparison between the two Defenders and Gladiator, note that they are all modified for this rockhopping adventure. The '94 Deefer had a 3" lift with bigger than stock tyres, ie. usual mods for any live axle vehicle, as was the Gladiator. The new Defender with IFS and IRS is also modded with bigger tyres, but by using Johnson rods to create the lift, which really limit the amount of downward wheel travel when the bags are fully inflated. I think the new Defender would probably make a better showing by doing the same test again without the rods and just putting 35's on it (and eDiff), as it was designed to take 35's at a pinch just in case someone wanted to fit them (although not recommended). Either that or fit the "J Auston Fabrication" lift kits when they become available to allow fitment of bigger tyres, for the really silly stuff.

6inch lift kit avail for D5! 35's Anyone? (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/l462-discovery-5-a/269898-6inch-lift-kit-avail-d5-35s-anyone.html)

[ozscott]

In regards to the TFL video comparison between the two Defenders and Gladiator, note that they are all modified for this rockhopping adventure. The '94 Deefer had a 3" lift with bigger than stock tyres, ie. usual mods for any live axle vehicle, as was the Gladiator. The new Defender with IFS and IRS is also modded with bigger tyres, but by using Johnson rods to create the lift, which really limit the amount of downward wheel travel when the bags are fully inflated. I think the new Defender would probably make a better showing by doing the same test again without the rods and just putting 35's on it (and eDiff), as it was designed to take 35's at a pinch just in case someone wanted to fit them (although not recommended). Either that or fit the "J Auston Fabrication" lift kits when they become available to allow fitment of bigger tyres, for the really silly stuff.

6inch lift kit avail for D5! 35's Anyone? (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/l462-discovery-5-a/269898-6inch-lift-kit-avail-d5-35s-anyone.html)I took onto account that the Deefer was modded. But the new one while impressive is not designed and built for serious rock hopping, whatever way you cut it. Neat vehicle though. But to me it's a slightly more rugged D5 or lightened up D4.

Cheers

[cripesamighty]

But to me it's a slightly more rugged D5 or lightened up D4.

I think a lot of people would agree with you. Still, I would like one sitting in my driveway at some stage!

[INter674]

Wheelbase is an issue in those situations and even tho they said it was a limitation of sorts ..it is an advantage on steep rocky tracks esp with sliders and lift included. Likewise lockers.

Really not a fair comparision at all.

PS many shortie Patrols have been extended to mid wheel base for exactly those reasons which greatly increases stability and traction. We have one here and there's a big improvement with an extra 30cm chassis length esp on tracks like the Burgoynes.

[scarry]

How is this,real Cool[thumbsupbig]


Supercar Blondie - New Land Rover Defender First Edition! | Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/supercarblondie/videos/vb.338044476535308/333210391144530/'type=2&theater)

i recon this is their target market.
looks like this is Middle East.

[SBD4]

TFL Tow test:


https://youtu.be/poSHjxhDDaE

[INter674]

Impressive.

Sort of reminds me of our D4 SC for towing..it just tows beautifully.

3.7 tonne towing in Europe...what is it here..3.5?

If so why?

3.7 would be a big attraction to buy one for modern weighty vans.

[SBD4]

Good to see a half decent go off road:

https://youtu.be/2nUMbSIYeFg

[IndusD4]

Tug of war video old vs new.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEy_CWoEgoc&feature=emb_title

[SimmAus]

Everyone’s favorite.... ;-)

DEFENDER REALITY CHECK. How can a 4WD score high on on-road ability but low as an off-roader? - YouTube (https://youtu.be/Dxt_j9qy51U)

[veebs]

Everyone’s favorite.... ;-)

DEFENDER REALITY CHECK. How can a 4WD score high on on-road ability but low as an off-roader? - YouTube (https://youtu.be/Dxt_j9qy51U)

Christ what a ****wit. I just can't listen to his drivel about electronics being unreliable (in any car), and that you can't trust a Land Rover not to break down, like you can with the Japanese makes.

The world has moved on. He hasn't.

[SBD4]

Not a review but the NCAP testing:


https://youtu.be/naQki7o0msI

Clear demonstration of why it is built the way it is especially for pedestrian safety.

[p38arover]

John Cadogen (AutoExpert on YouTube) has just released a video on why one shouldn’t by the new Defender. I haven’t watched it all yet but he may be right.

Who’d be silly enough to buy one in the first year of manufacture?

[SBD4]

One from Doug about his new Defender after a 7000 Mi road trip:


https://youtu.be/AZdbNHba0ls

[SBD4]

Finally, Harrys review:

https://youtu.be/jHu8VJkR9Ag

[ramblingboy42]

good, no bull**** , preplanned videos or Land Rover intervention

best review of this car I've seen

a landmark car sums it up

[zilch]

good, no bull**** , preplanned videos or Land Rover intervention

best review of this car I've seen

a landmark car sums it up

interesting review and only a few mistakes..

The 81K he mentions for the P400 in the UK is the top of the range X model, not the SE he was driving, that is not even available in the UK
All vehicles come standard with rubber washout floors, it is not an off road pack upgrade [bigsmile]
There is no snorkel, so fitting the unsealed RAI adds nothing to the existing 900mm wading depth

one of the more reasonably straight down the line reviews

[101RRS]

The 81K he mentions for the P400 in the UK is the top of the range X model, not the SE he was driving, that is not even available in the UK


He says that he paid 81k for that P400 SE that he bought - he was not talking about the LR list price. On his other test on his Harry's Farm channel he also said that he paid 81k for what he had - on the farm channel he lamented that for his 81K it would have been nice to have a bit more luxury and wondered where all the money went too.

However, when he first mentioned 81K I did a mental currency conversion and came up with $143,000AUD which is in the X model realm so maybe Harry did get it wrong.

That box on the side is pretty silly and I am surprised it meets ADRs for rear vis through the mirrors.

Cheers

Garry

[zilch]

He says that he paid 81k for that P400 SE that he bought -

Garry

Hi Garry

it was a loaner from Land Rover for him to do a long term test, I suspect he quoted from the UK list price, with the P400, which only being available in the X starts at a hefty number.
its bizarre as most of the other markets, US, Europe and Australia you can get the P400 from the S model and up, LR must think the UK masses are not worthy of such options ;)

[101RRS]

Hi Garry

it was a loaner from Land Rover for him to do a long term test, I suspect he quoted from the UK list price, with the P400, which only being available in the X starts at a hefty number.
its bizarre as most of the other markets, US, Europe and Australia you can get the P400 from the S model and up, LR must think the UK masses are not worthy of such options ;)

Oh Ok - I thought he said he had purchased the vehicle.

On the side box - I assume yours has it - if so how do you find it - does as Harry says - partially block your view through the door mirror. When you sell me your Defender in a couple of years for $30K it is the first thing that will be removed [thumbsupbig].

Cheers
Garry

[zilch]

On the side box - I assume yours has it

Cheers
Garry

nope, it cost $1400+ on roads, so gave it a miss, got the expedition rack, ladder, RAI and side steps.

[IndusD4]

Impressive nevertheless, on an icy road.

Land-Rover-Defender-tows-44-tonne-transporter-7-SUV-ice
(https://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/cars/article-9193589/Land-Rover-Defender-tows-44-tonne-transporter-7-SUV-ice.html)

[WhiteD3]

Looks like he's using the retractable tow hitch which I doubt is rated for this?


Impressive nevertheless, on an icy road.

Land-Rover-Defender-tows-44-tonne-transporter-7-SUV-ice
(https://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/cars/article-9193589/Land-Rover-Defender-tows-44-tonne-transporter-7-SUV-ice.html)

[IndusD4]

I wouldn't think rated at 44T for sure!

[SBD4]

I think this guy knows were the DSC button is, he's flogging it [bigrolf]!



https://youtu.be/7bhvMyvrKTo

[4runnernomore]

Land Rover Defender - Highway Towing Test & Weigh-In - YouTube (https://youtu.be/dkuRR_c2nZI)

Certainly won’t be a tourer with a big van on ? Any where Close to total legal tow weight you run out of axle weight
. In this video with driver and van hooked up with a totally stock unit there was 50kg axle rating left on the rear [bigwhistle].

Testing showed though it performed very well for the 4 banger. Throughout town and on the highway.

So it looks like you will restricted to 2 tonne and under if you want to tour and tow and remain legal and have any hope of carrying a few accessories and gear.

How many peeps will change their minds now.

Cheers Chris

[zilch]

Certainly won’t be a tourer with a big van on ? Any where Close to total legal tow weight you run out of axle weight
Cheers Chris

Checking with Zone RV at the moment (used in the vid), I am looking at the the Zone Base off road model which has a TARE of 2.4-2.6 depending on how you option and then allow
200KG for fuel, water etc and then say 200KG for personal stuff.. trick will be to keep it to about 3T.. I have the 5+2 seater so will have the luxury of 1900KG on the rear axle rather than
the 1800 quoted in the video.. wish me luck [bigwhistle]

[SBD4]

Good review. The rear axle capacity quoted of 1800Kg is for a 5 seater. The 7 seater is 1900Kg, remove the two rear seats and you'd get a bit of extra head room there plus, you get an extra 80Kgs on your GVW (and GTW) with the 7 seater:

Numbers here:
https://www.ownerinfo.landrover.com/document/3E/2021/T19977/44152_en_GBR/proc/G2723917

7 Seater is the logical choice if towing at the limits.

[scarry]

7 Seater is the logical choice if towing at the limits.

Depends,sure the weight rating is increased, but if you want to carry 7 people, and tow a large van good chance you will be over.

Five people, good chance you will be over/almost over as well.

Even 7 seater, with rear seats removed, two people, bit of gear, still very close to being illegal.

The test vehicle used was empty, bog standard, no accessaries.

I can see some buyers are going to get caught out.
Yes,the salesman will say, it can tow up to 3.5T....

[zilch]

Even 7 seater, with rear seats removed, two people, bit of gear, still very close to being illegal.

going to test that out with Zone and cruisemaster when i order and visit them in early May.. there will only be the two of us,
recovery gear, extra fuel and sixth wheel.. based upon the numbers he ran i think i can bring our 5+2 within legal requirements,
it is just understanding what the actual loading needs to be in real world figures rather than that published.. i am looking to aim around
the 3T mark and no more.. based upon the calculator Zone have sent me, that should come in approx 300KG on the nose, and may
aim for a tad lighter if i can (without compromising stability)..

[scarry]

going to test that out with Zone and cruisemaster when i order and visit them in early May.. there will only be the two of us,
recovery gear, extra fuel and sixth wheel.. based upon the numbers he ran i think i can bring our 5+2 within legal requirements,
it is just understanding what the actual loading needs to be in real world figures rather than that published.. i am looking to aim around
the 3T mark and no more.. based upon the calculator Zone have sent me, that should come in approx 300KG on the nose, and may
aim for a tad lighter if i can (without compromising stability)..

Good luck with it all, hope everything works out.

Great you know what is going on and will be able to sort it, the real worry is those that dont look into it.

Are the rear seats reasonably easy to remove?

[SBD4]

Depends,sure the weight rating is increased, but if you want to carry 7 people, and tow a large van good chance you will be over.

Five people, good chance you will be over/almost over as well.

Even 7 seater, with rear seats removed, two people, bit of gear, still very close to being illegal.

The test vehicle used was empty, bog standard, no accessaries.

I can see some buyers are going to get caught out.
Yes,the salesman will say, it can tow up to 3.5T....

All valid points Paul but geez, 7 people and a big van, you'd have to be bloody keen on a trip to put up with that![biggrin]

PS, It would have been good if he did the axle loading with the factory hitch to see to what degree the extended hitch had adverse effect.

[cripesamighty]

Well, that didn't last long. The Cruisemaster guys have had their 2020 Defender 110 for barely 6 months and they are already going to move it on. Apparently too many issues with towing weight limitations dragging 3.5 ton caravans around. At least he may yet buy this Defender for his wife...for the school run!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gNUVWuqCu0

[TB]

Oh dear. Good thing that I have absolutely no interest in dragging a block of flats around the country with me, but even standalone the GVM is gonna be a bit tight.

[ozscott]

Well, that didn't last long. The Cruisemaster guys have had their 2020 Defender 110 for barely 6 months and they are already going to move it on. Apparently too many issues with towing weight limitations dragging 3.5 ton caravans around. At least he may yet buy this Defender for his wife...for the school run!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gNUVWuqCu0Thanks for posting. Good review. Then watched their others. They like it but it has its issues. Some may be ironed out, others won't be. The air box is the same as the Amarok and isn't suited to outback dirt where you do a lot of that type of travelling. The GVM isn't as impressive in real life as the manual would lead us to believe. Cheers

[WhiteD3]

Managed to watch this for 10 minutes but then the moaning got too much.


Well, that didn't last long. The Cruisemaster guys have had their 2020 Defender 110 for barely 6 months and they are already going to move it on. Apparently too many issues with towing weight limitations dragging 3.5 ton caravans around. At least he may yet buy this Defender for his wife...for the school run!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gNUVWuqCu0

[ozscott]

It is worth persevering if you want the honest run down from a fellow who actually likes the vehicle but points out some issues for his application. Cheers

[dontwakemeup]

He does have some valid complaints but that being said you will be hard pressed to find a stock vehicle aside from an American truck that will competently tow all that.

It all boils down to what you want out of a vehicle. Essentially it can’t be all things to all people, so good for those who need to know about towing.

I think if you want to tow that much, plus 5 people and the back full and the roof loaded, you should just get a truck with a fifth wheel and be done with it.

[scarry]

D3/4 has the same airbox design with the screws, not really a major issue.

I am amazed back door can't be opened manually, not much of a thought out design for off road remote touring.

The garden variety, go to towing vehicles, have a well thought out way to open the rear door, and get the vehicle out of park, if the battery is flat.

So even towing a medium sized van with say 250KG ball weight, not much spare weight left.

I am surprised it doesn't have the 150KG "extra" that the D4 has when towing, as per the handbook.

[scarry]

This guy has done a good review, better than some of the so called motoring experts here, note the Covid masks[biggrin]

2020 Land Rover Defender In Africa - Ghana [ A review From an Actual Owner] - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOEcR1yq7nU)

[SBD4]

This guy has done a good review, better than some of the so called motoring experts here, note the Covid masks[biggrin]

2020 Land Rover Defender In Africa - Ghana [ A review From an Actual Owner] - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOEcR1yq7nU)

Yeah, I saw that when he released it and have been waiting for his long term follow up which he was planning to do after about 6 months, He did this one a couple of days ago which should pan out to be quite interesting if he does follow up with it:


https://youtu.be/-zEB55jjr40

[zilch]

Thanks for posting. Good review. Then watched their others. They like it but it has its issues. Some may be ironed out, others won't be. The air box is the same as the Amarok and isn't suited to outback dirt where you do a lot of that type of travelling. The GVM isn't as impressive in real life as the manual would lead us to believe. Cheers

Pretty sure if you have the RAI you can cut down on the amount of dust that gets in, my RRS air filter only needing cleaning about once a week when i did Cape York,
and it was still relatively clear, my Bro-in-laws Patrol at least every two days, and it was pretty filthy.. i put that mainly down to the LR OEM RAI doing
its job relatively well on the RRS..i am sure the RAI on our Defender will be just as good.. fingers crossed [bigwhistle]

I have put a deposit down on a Zone Base off Road caravan, i am not planning to load it to the gills, i.e the full 3.5T and 350KG on the nose, but something that is more in line with just what
the two of us will require for out trip, so <3T or lower fully loaded, and no more than 280KG, lighter if possible on the nose.. should come within both the vehicle GVM and the rear
axle loading..

[scarry]

Pretty sure if you have the RAI you can cut down on the amount of dust that gets in, my RRS air filter only needing cleaning about once a week when i did Cape York,
and it was still relatively clear, my Bro-in-laws Patrol at least every two days, and it was pretty filthy.. i put that mainly down to the LR OEM RAI doing
its job relatively well on the RRS..i am sure the RAI on our Defender will be just as good.. fingers crossed [bigwhistle]

I have put a deposit down on a Zone Base off Road caravan, i am not planning to load it to the gills, i.e the full 3.5T and 350KG on the nose, but something that is more in line with just what
the two of us will require for out trip, so <3T or lower fully loaded, and no more than 280KG, lighter if possible on the nose.. should come within both the vehicle GVM and the rear
axle loading..

Yes I did one Cape trip in the D2a no snorkel,used three air filters.(one did get wet)
Next trip,a week longer, with snorkel fitted, did the whole trip without changing the air filter.

Interesting this rear axle loading.i have seen a couple of RRS towing huge vans lately,i wonder if they have had the rear axle load checked, i doubt it?
Looking on JLR site I can't find any rating for the rear axle on RR or RRS,it should be on a tag on the vehicle somewhere I presume.
I did notice Velar has a much lower tow rating than the other models.

[zilch]

Yes I did one Cape trip in the D2a no snorkel,used three air filters.(one did get wet)
Next trip,a week longer, with snorkel fitted, did the whole trip without changing the air filter.

Interesting this rear axle loading.i have seen a couple of RRS towing huge vans lately,i wonder if they have had the rear axle load checked, i doubt it?
Looking on JLR site I can't find any rating for the rear axle on RR or RRS,it should be on a tag on the vehicle somewhere I presume.
I did notice Velar has a much lower tow rating than the other models.

you can get the weights from the online user manual

https://www.ownerinfo.landrover.com/

[scarry]

you can get the weights from the online user manual

https://www.ownerinfo.landrover.com/

I don't know if that info is Aus specs?

This is interesting,

¹ For every pound above 331 lbs (150 kg) added to the trailer tongue weight, the same weight must be removed from the vehicle's payload. Make sure that the GVW, the GTW, and the maximum rear axle weight limits are not exceeded when applying the trailer tongue weight. If required, reduce the weight of the vehicle's payload.

This wasn't mentioned in the Vids above, so may not be relevant to Aus?
I wonder if its in the owners handbook, for Aus spec New Defender vehicles?

I am pretty sure it was relevant for D4,in Aus,but I can't check the manual to be sure, as our D4 is gone.

[zilch]

I don't know if that info is Aus specs?

This is interesting,

¹ For every pound above 331 lbs (150 kg) added to the trailer tongue weight, the same weight must be removed from the vehicle's payload. Make sure that the GVW, the GTW, and the maximum rear axle weight limits are not exceeded when applying the trailer tongue weight. If required, reduce the weight of the vehicle's payload.

This wasn't mentioned in the Vids above, so may not be relevant to Aus?
I wonder if its in the owners handbook, for Aus spec New Defender vehicles?

I am pretty sure it was relevant for D4,in Aus,but I can't check the manual to be sure, as our D4 is gone.

The Aussie tow hitch on the new Defender is fully rated to 350KG by design (same A/NZ coupling as D4/D5/RRS etc), i had the weights confirmed by LR OZ,
but every Kilo in nose weight adds to the GVM when calculating, hence why i am working with Zone to make sure i stay within axles limits..
rear axle is 1900KG on my 5+2 seater

[scarry]

The Aussie tow hitch on the new Defender is fully rated to 350KG by design (same A/NZ coupling as D4/D5/RRS etc), i had the weights confirmed by LR OZ,
but every Kilo in nose weight adds to the GVM when calculating, hence why i am working with Zone to make sure i stay within axles limits..
rear axle is 1900KG on my 5+2 seater

Yes but looking at what I copied and pasted, which came from the link you provided you have an extra 150KG up your sleeve, if you know what I mean.

If nose weight is 350Kg,then 200Kg is added to payload, not full 350Kg.But I dunno how that affects rear axle weight.

As I said,D4 was like that for Aus.

[TB]

Would vehicles built with different seat configurations and different engines be built with different axles? I cannot understand why a 2.0L diesel with 5 seats comes with lower axle and GVM figures than a 2.0L diesel with 5+2 seats, and a 3.0L petrol with 7+2 is higher again. I would expect payload to be different among all the different configs (because different amounts of weight built into the vehicle) but having loads and GVM based on seats is doing my head in.

My 5-seat D240 is apparently only good for 1800kg on the rear axle and a GVM of 3150kg, but if I had the 3rd row they'd be happy for 1900kg and 3215 respectively. Are there parts I can upgrade to gain an extra 65kg of GVM? Or better yet get all the way to 3250 like the P400?

[SBD4]

This guy might be worth keeping an eye on. He's just started doing some small tests with his new vehicle to get an understanding of how it works. He has an old Def too.

Really interesting to see the night and day difference between two TR mode on the same obstacle

https://youtu.be/JxWC-Ait1t0

Thought it was a nice touch to overlay the 4WD info screen with the exterior footage. It really shows how responsive the traction control is.

https://youtu.be/LH7XnLcGt00

[Odysseyman]

Yes but looking at what I copied and pasted, which came from the link you provided you have an extra 150KG up your sleeve, if you know what I mean.

If nose weight is 350Kg,then 200Kg is added to payload, not full 350Kg.But I dunno how that affects rear axle weight.

As I said,D4 was like that for Aus.

Gday Paul

i think your statement “then 200Kg is added to the payload” could be misleading in that one could conclude that the vehicle payload capacity goes from, (in the case of a 7 seat diesel vehicle with air suspension) 651 kg to 851kg, when in fact it goes from 651 kg to 451 kg.

The actual quote from the D4 Owners manual is -

”Australia only: The nose weight must be a minimum of 7% of the gross caravan/trailer weight, up to a maximum of 250 kg. When using the detachable trailer hitch receiver, see 96, FITTING THE DETATCHABLE TRAILER HITCH RECEIVER (Australia only), the nose weight can be increased to 350 kg if the GVW is reduced by 200 kg.”

cheers
David

[IndusD4]

There is a thread in the D3/D4/RRS section where someone posted a statement from LRA regarding the tow ball weight which stated that every kilo of towball weight comes off the vehicle payload. I mistakenly believed that there was a 150kg 'allowance' for a better word, where only tow ball weight in addition to that 150kg came off the payload. The LR manual in this respect is confusing.

Ron

[Odysseyman]

There is a thread in the D3/D4/RRS section where someone posted a statement from LRA regarding the tow ball weight which stated that every kilo of towball weight comes off the vehicle payload. I mistakenly believed that there was a 150kg 'allowance' for a better word, where only tow ball weight in addition to that 150kg came off the payload. The LR manual in this respect is confusing.

Ron

Hi Ron,
don’t want to continue to hi jack this thread but yes, I was confused, but after reading what’s in my D4 owners handbook quoted above, I am now clear on it.
If you are towing something with a 350kg ball weight (I have to wonder why would you!!) then you must first treat your vehicle as if it has a GVM of 200kg lower, and take the 350 kg off the resulting lower payload. Doesn’t leave much payload for anything else really once the driver and fuel are in the vehicle.
maybe a Sticky for this topic would help people.
cheers
David

[RANDLOVER]

Here is a review from a guy who took one across America and back.

7,000 Miles in a 2020 Land Rover Defender: What Broke, What I Love, What I Hate - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZdbNHba0ls)

[zilch]

well according to Drive the Defender edges the Rubicon and the Raptor in terms of overall performance..


https://youtu.be/LNTvIGPckb8

[SBD4]

Not a review...but it is a video[thumbsupbig]

From the guys at New Defender Mods in the Glass House Mountains:


https://youtu.be/Vcq0i9eai2E

[Sweetpea]

Found this interesting as it goes from the beginning of the Landrover to the new Defender 2020 and lots of concepts along the way.

The Land Rover Defender Story - YouTube (https://youtu.be/ZdB1tLdTY9E)

[Sweetpea]

Video on the rear diff locker and side-by-side with and without

What difference does the rear locker make offroad on the New Land Rover Defender? - Part 2 - YouTube (https://youtu.be/-4TMI4QXHNc)

[SBD4]

Video on the rear diff locker and side-by-side with and without

What difference does the rear locker make offroad on the New Land Rover Defender? - Part 2 - YouTube (https://youtu.be/-4TMI4QXHNc)
Was waiting for that one. Definitely makes a difference.

[ozscott]

Just proves the point that even with LR's fantastic ETC a positively locking rear differential is best. For the front I would prefer ETC i think.

Cheers

[ramblingboy42]

I spent some time in you tube whilst in lockdown and looked at a number of comparison tests against several late 4wds.

After the hype , salutations , excessive reviews...not to mention excessive cost of the Defender I expected to see it run away from the other vehicles on comparison.

Quite the opposite.....it rated poorly and as soon as the tracks got serious it was being beaten hands down.Embarrassingly so for you Defender fanatics.

It won comfort and road manners by miles , but was let down poorly by wheel/tyre combinations . Now a lot of you will protest , but this is the way Land Rover presented their vehicle straight out of the showroom , just like the others were. This is the way Land Rover intended their vehicle to be driven....no excuses.

If I had a L663 Defender and knew that at least 3 other new entrants in the 4wd category could clearly walk away in tough going I would trade it in , considering the premium price paid for the Defender.

I had been waiting to see some good comparisons , now that there are some newly released competitors, the Defender doesn't look that good .

If this was the 4wd olympics , Defender wouldn't get a bronze.

[TB]

I had been waiting to see some good comparisons , now that there are some newly released competitors, the Defender doesn't look that good

What other wagon could you buy in Australia, in factory/brand spec with no "second stage manufacturing" or third party accessories, to better a new Defender for travel off the bitumen? And in what way would it be better?

I don't think it's as cut and dried as you're making out. Some of the differences you're likely to highlight are easily addressed. Others are deeper design decisions that are just characteristic of the different vehicles and people will decide which factors matter enough for them to choose one vehicle over all the others.

[ramblingboy42]

Defend the Defender......

[Geedublya]

Defend the Defender......

I thought it was a fair question.

[grey_ghost]

I spent some time in you tube whilst in lockdown and looked at a number of comparison tests against several late 4wds.

After the hype , salutations , excessive reviews...not to mention excessive cost of the Defender I expected to see it run away from the other vehicles on comparison.

Quite the opposite.....it rated poorly and as soon as the tracks got serious it was being beaten hands down.Embarrassingly so for you Defender fanatics.

It won comfort and road manners by miles , but was let down poorly by wheel/tyre combinations . Now a lot of you will protest , but this is the way Land Rover presented their vehicle straight out of the showroom , just like the others were. This is the way Land Rover intended their vehicle to be driven....no excuses.

If I had a L663 Defender and knew that at least 3 other new entrants in the 4wd category could clearly walk away in tough going I would trade it in , considering the premium price paid for the Defender.

I had been waiting to see some good comparisons , now that there are some newly released competitors, the Defender doesn't look that good .

If this was the 4wd olympics , Defender wouldn't get a bronze.

It’s pretty simple isn’t it? You don’t like the new Defender - fair enough, but why bang on about it. Just scroll on by and ignore it.

[100inch]

I spent some time in you tube whilst in lockdown and looked at a number of comparison tests against several late 4wds.

After the hype , salutations , excessive reviews...not to mention excessive cost of the Defender I expected to see it run away from the other vehicles on comparison.

Quite the opposite.....it rated poorly and as soon as the tracks got serious it was being beaten hands down.Embarrassingly so for you Defender fanatics.

It won comfort and road manners by miles , but was let down poorly by wheel/tyre combinations . Now a lot of you will protest , but this is the way Land Rover presented their vehicle straight out of the showroom , just like the others were. This is the way Land Rover intended their vehicle to be driven....no excuses.

If I had a L663 Defender and knew that at least 3 other new entrants in the 4wd category could clearly walk away in tough going I would trade it in , considering the premium price paid for the Defender.

I had been waiting to see some good comparisons , now that there are some newly released competitors, the Defender doesn't look that good .

If this was the 4wd olympics , Defender wouldn't get a bronze.
Very glad to see JLR not producing cars for people like you.....m

[ramblingboy42]

It’s pretty simple isn’t it? You don’t like the new Defender - fair enough, but why bang on about it. Just scroll on by and ignore it.

this is why we have forums.....you dont like what I wrote......and you are "banging on about it"

[grey_ghost]

🤣🤣🤣

[ramblingboy42]

I thought it was a fair question.

It is a fair question.

To get a fair answer you only have to do what I did.

Look at the newly emerging comparisons , now that a few manufacturers are getting their new models on the market.

Btw, I didnt intend to do this but 2 friends of mine have recently purchased the still alive LC200s and spent a few thousand dollars on both of them and turned into Defender eaters offroad for about 90% of Defender cost. I dont think they will have on road manners though. My other friends...3 brothers...each have Y62 Patrols. They are fully prepared to challenge the Defender on any road you choose.

I dont hate Defenders , they came out in a brilliant fanfair , while any competition was in the doldrums , but the competition is catching up and in several cases already beating the Defender straight out of the showroom , which was the question wasn't it?

I don't need to tell you which models are beating it. Just look up you tube Defender comparison tests. Read and weep if you are that attached to the brand.