Tow ball as a recovery point? The answer is NO !!!

[Zej]

Hi there, I've got a 1986 RR with an ARB rear step and winch bar. Was hoping you could give a novice offroader some advice.
A couple of months ago, my rangie was pulled out of a bog (1st time is always the stupidest....) by fitting the towrope through the pin in the receiver as I had left the towbar at home. My mate was saying how it would have been much easier if I had the towbar fitted (the other end of the rope was just looped over the towbar of the rescuing vehicle). I was just wondering if a towball makes an acceptable recovery point?
I haven't been able to find a recovery tow-hitch that's long enough to fit the receiver in the rear step.
Or what if I were to remove the towball and put a shackle through the tow-bar?
There are also a couple of eyes on both the front and rear bars, but I'm guessing I'd need some sort of chain to connect the two for use for recovery.

Thanks!

[Phoenix]

No, No, no, no, no. I think that makes it clear ;)

What you did is correct. A towball can not take the shock load of a snatch recovery. A number of people in Australia have been killed over the past few years by towballs that have snapped off and been thrown some distance. ould you want a towball heading for your head at 200 km/h ?

I've seen a great picture of a 4wd with a snatch strap and a shackle attached at the end attached to the rear of the cehicle. the shackle went through the back window, through the passanger headrest and out the windscreen. Lickily there was no passanger at the time in the vehicle.

For the rear the best way is to get a recovery hitch that has a hook attached and slides into your towball reciever. That or a hole to attach a shackle (which can take the snach recovery load).

Fir the front, the loops tent to not be strong enough and can be ripped out. Best bet is to get a proper recovery hok to attach. If you like attach 2 at the front and use a strap to attach them. Chains in recovery is also a no no. As they too can snap and be sent flying. Only thing a chain is used for is pulling branches off the track, or draging firewood.

[Greylandy]

Exactly what Phoenix said. You can take the ball out of the tongue and attach a D-shackle to make it easier to connect the strap. The alternative is a $70 hitch receiver that does the same thing but looks a bit neater at the back. See below:

http://www.greylandy.com/25T/images/25T35.jpg

The problem with putting it into the towbar and attaching with the pin is some recovery straps are too thick .. I know the 12000lb ARB one doesn't fit in the ARB/Hayman Reese/LR towbar.

As for the front, get two rated recovery hooks and attach them to the chassis rails. Another alternative is jate rings .. almost like a u-bolt that sits either side of the rail. Jate rings below:

http://www.greylandy.com/images/frps1.jpg

When you have to attach a recovery strap on the front, use a rated tree protector or bridle to spread the load between the chassis rails.

[Surferjim]

So - just to be totally clear, the easiest and quickest way is to simply run a D shackle through the tow bar reciever where the pin would normally go for the ball itself?

[Zej]

Thanks for the speedy replies.

I tried to get a tow-hitch like Greylandy's, but couldn't find one that was long enough for the rear bar reciever, which sits at an angle and is several inches deeper than a standard horizontal one. Looks like the towball's coming off then.

I've seen recovery brackets and hooks - so you'd have them bolted to either side of the chassis, then run a tree-protector between the two - and attach the recovery strap to the middle with a shackle?

[FenianEel]

Ditto Phoenix's comments.
NEVER EVER USE the towball - it can become a cricket ball sized missile. Ugly.

Some towbar set ups have "rings" or recovery points attached. If not get a centre pull. It costs about $60 and slides in where the tow ball attachment does. Or get a Tow Jaw set up. Either of these will do the job for most recoveries.
Make sure whatever you use, it "rated" for recovery and take your time. When recovering a vehicle, look at possible things that can go wrong and try and eliminate them. If you're new to four wheel driving, start by reading a "tips and techniques" mag or 4WD Survival/Starters guide. And never be afraid to ask questions, or take your time when you're out there. If that's an issue, you're driving with the wrong people.

Welcome to AULRO and don't be afraid to ask any questions here. As the Irish say "There's no strangers here - just friends you haven't met yet. :D

[FenianEel]

oops forgot to attach pictures.

There are also tow hooks - but I don't really like them - they have an open end and aren't "solid" for pulls/recoveries that arent straight.

[crump]

So - just to be totally clear, the easiest and quickest way is to simply run a D shackle through the tow bar reciever where the pin would normally go for the ball itself?

Just use the pin, as its less potential shrapnell.

[crump]

Thanks for the speedy replies.

I tried to get a tow-hitch like Greylandy's, but couldn't find one that was long enough for the rear bar reciever, which sits at an angle and is several inches deeper than a standard horizontal one. Looks like the towball's coming off then.

I've seen recovery brackets and hooks - so you'd have them bolted to either side of the chassis, then run a tree-protector between the two - and attach the recovery strap to the middle with a shackle?
You would be better off just threading the bridle thru the snatch strap, as it lessens the amount of metal in the process.

[dobbo]

Just use the pin, as its less potential shrapnell.


Is this the pin to attach the tongue to the tow bar assembly ? Can you get a rated one I have never seen on with a rating attached to it. I live in fear it could potentially give way whilst towing (very unlikely I realise)

[CraigE]

Have a look at this one on ebay
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/RECOVERY-HITCH-HOOK-POINT_W0QQitemZ4644810468QQcategoryZ30862QQrdZ1QQc mdZViewItem

I just generally use the pin in the rear towbar. The only thing I do not like about the above is if the pin shears for whatever reason, the reciever becomes a missile. If you just have the snatch strap eyelet around the pin and it shears there would belittle chance of much but the strap coming back at you.

[Greylandy]

Thanks for the speedy replies.

I tried to get a tow-hitch like Greylandy's, but couldn't find one that was long enough for the rear bar reciever, which sits at an angle and is several inches deeper than a standard horizontal one. Looks like the towball's coming off then.

I've seen recovery brackets and hooks - so you'd have them bolted to either side of the chassis, then run a tree-protector between the two - and attach the recovery strap to the middle with a shackle?

Never use a shackle to attach straps, just thread the tree protector through the loop in the recovery strap. Crump is correct in that you are trying to minimise shrapnell when something gives. 99.5% of the time the strap will give before the shackle, especially rated shackles as they are made to lift the rated weight .. not just pull.

If you think about it ... no strap will pull a hith receiver, tow hook or shackle off a vehicle ... straps are notorious for not being properly tested .. you see it all the time ... the 4WD magazines do a comparo and half of the straps fail below their rated threshold. So when you do buy a strap, go overkill.

[Greylandy]

So - just to be totally clear, the easiest and quickest way is to simply run a D shackle through the tow bar reciever where the pin would normally go for the ball itself?

You got it Jim!

[FenianEel]

You can also get one of these.
They are pretty expensive and probably overkill for most of the trips that you'd do, but if you have one with you - it will make all recoveries easy & guarantee you get home.

[crump]

Just use the pin, as its less potential shrapnell.

Sorry misread what you meant.:huh:

[Zej]

You can also get one of these.
They are pretty expensive and probably overkill for most of the trips that you'd do, but if you have one with you - it will make all recoveries easy & guarantee you get home.

The Landy or the Chinook?? :eek:

I think I prefer the more compact dimensions of the Russian Mi26 Halo...

[FenianEel]

The Landy or the Chinook?? :eek:

I think I prefer the more compact dimensions of the Russian Mi26 Halo...

Chinook:lol:

Russian + reliability = mmmm not sure.

I'll keep that in mind when shopping for my next cargolifter though!:lol:

[ak]

Sorry misread what you meant.:huh:

Sorry I am still a bit confused, is it OK just to use the pin and can any one post a pic of the strap just going through the pin for me please?

[dobbo]

I feel the same as "ak" wouldn't trust the pin completely. I cannot see a rating on it. As I've allready said, can you get rating pins????

[BigJon]

Using the pin that passes through the square section of the towbar is fine for recovery purposes. I would think the chances of that pin actually snapping are just about zero. I have used 3/8 socket extension bars instead of the pin to do a recovery with (heading out under prepared!) and had no dramas.

I know what you mean regarding the difficulty in getting the strap down inside the receptacle. I have a RaRo with ARB front and rear bars as well. I intend to make my own recovery point that slides into the towbar point, just a matter of time and enthusiasm. I can't imagine that it would be too difficult to build.

[crump]

Sorry I am still a bit confused, is it OK just to use the pin and can any one post a pic of the strap just going through the pin for me please?

I will do some pics this arvo after work for front and rear.:D


And then everyone will tell me I got it all wrong.:mad: :D

[crump]

You got it Jim!

Has he??? Isnt he saying that removing the ball and putting a shackle thru the mounting hole for the ball is the go? Not removing the ENTIRE tow hitch and using the locking pin for the hitch.

[BigJon]

Crump - I don't forsee any problems using either method.

The only trouble is that the ARB rear bars make it nearly impossible to get a strap all the way in to the retaining pin location.

[dobbo]

.

I know what you mean regarding the difficulty in getting the strap down inside the receptacle. I have a RaRo with ARB front and rear bars as well. I intend to make my own recovery point that slides into the towbar point, just a matter of time and enthusiasm. I can't imagine that it would be too difficult to build.

Would an old tongue with a highly rated bow shackle be sufficient for this?

Take ball out of old tongue replace with big bow shackle pin of shackle going through tongue where ball used to be?
Surely this would put a lot of the load on the pin alone wouldn't it?

[crump]

Crump - I don't forsee any problems using either method.

The only trouble is that the ARB rear bars make it nearly impossible to get a strap all the way in to the retaining pin location.

But arent you then just adding another possible breaking point and doubling up on missiles?? Not being argumentative, just never heard of that being done.

[Greylandy]

Has he??? Isnt he saying that removing the ball and putting a shackle thru the mounting hole for the ball is the go? Not removing the ENTIRE tow hitch and using the locking pin for the hitch.

Agree with BigJohn .. both will work fine. You are adding a shackle to the mix but with some straps you don't have a choice. I just cannot imagine a 3.2T shackle breaking before the strap gives way.

[BigJon]

Surely one of the after market tow points that fit in place of the standard tow bar (as mentioned/shown earlier) do exactly that. Unless you are doing snatch recoveries flat knacker in 2nd high, using a massively strong strap or cable, I can't see you destroying a hitch, or the pin that holds it in place. You might bend something, but not break it.

[crump]

Heres the [/URL]pics,lucky I did it, reciever was jammed solid with some of Nth QLDs finest slop.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2006/05/29.jpg[URL="http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/Weem6/RIMG0145.jpg"] (http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/Weem6/RIMG0145.jpg)
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/Weem6/RIMG0144.jpghttps://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2006/05/30.jpg
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/Weem6/RI
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2006/05/31.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2006/05/32.jpgMG0142.jpg

[ak]

Thanks Crump great pic's, so I surpose the worest that can happen is the pin bends and the strap gets stuck as long as common sense and care is taken in other words steady as she goes on each attempt.

[crump]

No more than 2m of slack in the Snatch strap and 2nd low range take off, and make sure the stuck guy has his handbrake off.:D And if at first you dont succeed, break out the shovel.:D

[Rosco]

Is this the pin to attach the tongue to the tow bar assembly ?

I tend to tread lightly in that regard. I've never bent the pin, tho I've heard of some who have. Once bent they're a f*&^%$#*ing mongrel to remove. Nigh on impossible in the bush.

A shackle through the hole where the tow ball goes will do the trick, if you don't have one of the other gizmos.

Cheers

[one_iota]

I tend to tread lightly in that regard. I've never bent the pin, tho I've heard of some who have. Once bent they're a f*&^%$#*ing mongrel to remove. Nigh on impossible in the bush.

A shackle through the hole where the tow ball goes will do the trick, if you don't have one of the other gizmos.

Cheers

All of the above...but remember that to take the tow ball off requires a largish shifter.

[crump]

Yeh, thats a good point about bending the pin, might just buy one of those bush hook thingys and be done with it.Since I drive a Defender i dont worry too much about recovery anyway, but I'm sure there are plenty of Disco and Rangie drivers out there with a wealth of experience in this.:D (sorry, couldnt help myself.)

[FenianEel]

Do we deduce from this Mr Crump
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2006/05/28.jpg

that the spotlight install, seen here
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/showthread.php't=27692
was less than successful :lol: :lol:

[crump]

:D :D :D and did you also notice the acoustic cover off the engine with the tunnel chewed thru it by mice, what ever happened to privacy?? Oh yeah, GTF outa my shed.

[barney]

If you think about it ... no strap will pull a hith receiver, tow hook or shackle off a vehicle ....
i beg to differ GL,
about 12 yrs ago, some mates and i were up at goulburn river near sandy hollow. at the time i was 4wd-less and was riding my trike thru the river crossings etc. we went with a bloke by the name of Dave Goss, he used to do those conversions on mitsubishi L300's back in the '80s and 90s. he brought along 2 other L300's, his brother in law and a bloke that just had his converted. (newbie)
it was getting late and we were trying to get back to camp before full dark. as it was we were driving with our lights on.
the trike could get across bits of silt and down track the 4wd's couldn't, and do it a lot faster too. the newbie made the mistake of following my track rather than the formed track and got himself horribly bogged in the silt.
gossies brother in law went to the rescue, hooked his strap onto the newbies recovery point, an ARB hook, shackeled the strap to the back of his van and took off. what they didn't pick up was that the newbie had put his recovery points on, himself. with bolts he picked up for "the right price" at BBC. the bolts snapped, the strap, shackel and hook went flying toward the recovery vehicle. it hit the rear door about 50mm below the window, perforated the outer skin, perforated the inner skin and dented his engel. 50mm higher and it could have been very messy given he had his kids in the car.
although, i've never seen a towball come off, i have heard the horror stories and even though just about every recovery we used to do (before we heard of the towball problem) we would often use the towball, with luckily, no accidents.
there is no way i would rely on a towball for a recovery, towbar, yes! but not towball.
those inserts with the big yellow shackle are great. if you can't find one long enough (shop around) you may be able to get someone to whip one up for you at a machine shop.

[SneakyPete]

Yeah, I've seen a couple of good ones.

About 3 years ago on the Newnes Plateau we were passed by a red Disco 1 travelling (from memory) in the company of a Hilux (or some other forgettable make). About half an hour later we came across these guys. They had been playing in a rhino pit and the D1 got bogged and they'd tried to snatch it out. Talk about unlucky. In one of nature's rare moments, the Hilux managed to overcome its chronic asthma and mustered the tractive effort to pull more than the skin off a rice pudding. Whatever they had mounted the snatch strap to tore off the Hilux, and strap and shackle came through the windscreen of the D1 and inflicted serious head injuries to the driver. There was blood everywhere. By the time we got there his head was taped up like a mummy. Not a pretty sight.

About 6 years ago we were coming around Indian Head when a 75 series TT towing a car trailer with new Camry for the Toyota fishing comp came up off the beach and promptly bogged itself to the gunwales (not an unreasonable outcome given the circumstances). I saw it coming and pulled over to make way. It bogged right beside me. An 80 series backed up and attached a snatch strap with shackle through the "jacking eye" of the ARB bull bar on the 75. The 80 took off, shackle tore out of bull bar, and implanted itself in the tail gate of the 80. Oh what a feeling!

SneakyPete

[JDNSW]

Recovery, especially dynamic recovery is an activity with a lot of potential for serious damage or injury. In recovery with a winch or by towing you deliberately avoid using any recovery gear that is elastic and can store a significant amount of energy, so if anything breaks things are not likely to go flying, although if the ground is not level the potential energy of the lift can have a similar effect.
But in dynamic recovery, you are deliberately using a snatch strap that is going to store the kinetic energy of the towing vehicle and apply it to pulling the bogged vehicle. This means it is storing a very large amount of energy, and if anything comes loose, the energy will be transferred to the object that came loose. As this is a lot lighter than the recovery vehicle, the energy is going to accelerate it to a much higher speed - and it is going to be heading straight for one of the vehicles, which one depends on which end let go. The potential for disaster is only added to by the fact that everything happens so quickly.
So when thinking recovery, especially dynamic recovery, there is no room for any suspicion of any part being faulty or not strong enough. I have heard of cases where an entire rear crossmember came through the windscreen of the vehicle being recovered, the result of unsuspected (or ignored) rust.

[Jamo]

Nice photo's Crump!

But, how did someone manage to get bogged inside your shed??

[ciapek]

Thanks for the speedy replies.

I tried to get a tow-hitch like Greylandy's, but couldn't find one that was long enough for the rear bar reciever, which sits at an angle and is several inches deeper than a standard horizontal one. Looks like the towball's coming off then.

I've seen recovery brackets and hooks - so you'd have them bolted to either side of the chassis, then run a tree-protector between the two - and attach the recovery strap to the middle with a shackle?

Zej, you can try 4WD Megastore on Princess Hwy in Dandenong, I recently picked up one similar to what Graylandy has got but this one was with a 4.7T shackle through it.......From memory they had two different lengths on shelf......cheers...

[crump]

Nice photo's Crump!

But, how did someone manage to get bogged inside your shed??

The things I do to help out, had to get a jackhammer in to get out of that one.:D

[nealo]

Wow ...this topic has the potential to go far ...lol...going by the responses to similar topics on the ov*rlander forums:spudnikdizzy:
Having bent the reciever pin on one occaision(carlton cold caused exact details to be lost from memory) i know it can be a PITA to remove (even when sober)
A grade 8 16mm(i think) hex head bolt with a hole drilled in the end for a split pin is heaps stronger than the supplied pin, or even a grade 10 socket head cap screw will solve the bending pin issue.
I've seen the corner of a 35 tonne dragline bucket lifted off the ground with a 3.2T bow shackle(accidently...funnily enough the weld on the lifting lug gave way...oops:eek: ) ...but also seen the evidence of brocken recovery gear.

oh.....and dont snatch off a tow ball

[one_iota]

Just another thought...

Many people think that the only way to recover a vehicle is in the direction that the stuck vehicle was travelling...

contrare

The best way is to pull the stuck vehicle out the same way it went in...reverse. It has made its way there and could go no further forward so often the easiest way out is the way it went in.

So a rear to rear recovery is best providing that you don't use the tow ball

Same principle applies if you go off sideways...how do I know?

[CraigE]

Mahn,
I agree and normally pull out the way it went in. But sometimes that is not possible or practical depending where the recovery vehicle is or is coming from or where you need to go or access to recovery points etc.

[Greylandy]

i beg to differ GL,
...gossies brother in law went to the rescue, hooked his strap onto the newbies recovery point, an ARB hook, shackeled the strap to the back of his van and took off. what they didn't pick up was that the newbie had put his recovery points on, himself. with bolts he picked up for "the right price" at BBC.

Unfortunately you cannot compensate for stupidity. I should rephrase and say properly fitted towbars, recovery points, hitch receivers and rated shackles should always outlast a recovery strap. If that is not the case .. or you are in doubt .. get it changed!!!

Metal shrapnel is what kills and causes damage. If proper recovery techniques are being used, a broken strap should cause .. at worst .. a dent in you rear door. The strap should be the weakest point in the recovery setup. That doesn't mean you should use a fragile old strap without a rating ... but if something goes let it be that 9000lb ARB strap cause chances are it won't come through the back door and mess up your comb over!

[Greylandy]

Mahn,
I agree and normally pull out the way it went in. But sometimes that is not possible or practical depending where the recovery vehicle is or is coming from or where you need to go or access to recovery points etc.

I second that hence elec winches are not worth the dollars .. unless you do comp work!

[ak]

I am planning my first trip to Fraser Island later this year and this thread certainly has me thinking. Now I am not planning on getting bogged every 5 min's but as we are going with some other families I will be taking great care as to who I recover and who I will let recover me. I am getting a propper recovery point up front.

I just can't imagine the pin being that strong. I don't have the experience as some of you here so if you where a novice like me at the back end what's best a proper rated shackle or use the existing pin?

[Greylandy]

In my opinion use a shackle bracket (below) with the existing pin that came with your towbar. The bracket spreads the load on the pin far more effectively then just putting the strap around the pin. Even if the pin is suspect there is very little chance that it will shear or break with this setup. Also, as mentioned before .. I'll cut off my balls if you break a rated 3.2T shackle before the strap breaks!!! :eek: ;)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2006/05/9.jpg

I've used the shackle bracket on many occassions, there is no evidence of the pin bending or such like. Some action below (notice the vehicle being recovered ;))

http://www.greylandy.com/17T/images/17T13.JPG

Bloody Disco's without CDL!!
http://www.greylandy.com/19T/images/19T43.jpg

Mahn, remember this one?
http://www.greylandy.com/21T/images/21T14.jpg

[ak]

Thanks for posting the pic Greylandie, I like that set up I think thats the way I'll go. Any idea what one should cost me.

[Greylandy]

Thanks for posting the pic Greylandie, I like that set up I think thats the way I'll go. Any idea what one should cost me.

Around $70 ... they are available from ARB and TJM.

[FenianEel]

I'll cut off my balls if you break a rated 3.2T shackle before the strap breaks!!!

Well I want to see pictures......
You could prove it by straddling the snatch snap. :eek:

Right, there's a challenge boys, let's find a super strength strap and a **** ass taiwanese 3.2t shackle:lol:

[crump]

. Also, as mentioned before .. I'll cut off my balls if you break a rated 3.2T shackle before the strap breaks!!! :eek: ;)









No, No, No, the Self Mutilation Forum is at the bottom of the home page after My Freaky Members Rides.:D

[Greylandy]

No, No, No, the Self Mutilation Forum is at the bottom of the home page after My Freaky Members Rides.:D

Oops sorry .. thought I was on a different website for a sec :p

[SneakyPete]

Sounds like this thread is starting to run out of steam!...Or was it just starting to get steamy?

SneakyPete

[shakes]

There was a thread almost exactly the same as this on another forum (dont know the linking rules for this forum) and the general consensus for the safest way of recovering was off rated snatch points bolted to your chassis, NOT shackles and pins as they have a catastrophic(sp) failure. IE> turn themselves into missiles rather than just bend, although they have a higher failure rating...

most shakles are also rated as "lifting" so quite happily lift 3.2/4.7t etc but as soon as twisting and other non-opposing forces are put on them they WILL fail

[Pedro_The_Swift]

I can tell you the strap WILL let go (stitching around eye) before the pin bends,,
snatched a 109 and trailer over a berm once--,
no,, twice:lol:
got the rear of the Disco well and truly airbourne,,:eek:

[crump]

There was a thread almost exactly the same as this on another forum (dont know the linking rules for this forum) and the general consensus for the safest way of recovering was off rated snatch points bolted to your chassis, NOT shackles and pins as they have a catastrophic(sp) failure. IE> turn themselves into missiles rather than just bend, although they have a higher failure rating...

most shakles are also rated as "lifting" so quite happily lift 3.2/4.7t etc but as soon as twisting and other non-opposing forces are put on them they WILL fail

Yeh but I bet It didnt mention hacking your balls off, only a Landy forum could come up with something that hardcore.:D

[Jamo]

most shakles are also rated as "lifting" so quite happily lift 3.2/4.7t etc but as soon as twisting and other non-opposing forces are put on them they WILL fail

You'll probably find that a shackle with a SWL of 3.2t, probably has a breaking limit of around 16t.

Even so, If I can get away with not using the snatch strap, I will!.

[Greylandy]

There was a thread almost exactly the same as this on another forum (dont know the linking rules for this forum) and the general consensus for the safest way of recovering was off rated snatch points bolted to your chassis, NOT shackles and pins as they have a catastrophic(sp) failure. IE> turn themselves into missiles rather than just bend, although they have a higher failure rating...

most shakles are also rated as "lifting" so quite happily lift 3.2/4.7t etc but as soon as twisting and other non-opposing forces are put on them they WILL fail

Exactly what was said here. The thread is about the best recovery point for the rear of the vehicle and in my opinion you don't get much better than the towbar as it's bolted to chassis, just like any rated snatch point that you would go and bolt to the chassis. I think it goes a step beyond in that it performs like a fixed bridle in spreading the load between the rails.

The British Army uses jate rings as recovery points, front and rear I believe. What do you think they use to attach a strap to the recovery point baring in mind they are not open like a hook.

Sorry mate but I don't see any recovery situation break a rated shackle before the strap thread goes. Also, with proper recovery points there is no reason why snatching or even winching will put excessive twisting on a shackle.

[FenianEel]

Exactly what was said here. The thread is about the best recovery point for the rear of the vehicle and in my opinion you don't get much better than the towbar as it's bolted to chassis, just like any rated snatch point that you would go and bolt to the chassis. I think it goes a step beyond in that it performs like a fixed bridle in spreading the load between the rails.

The British Army uses jate rings as recovery points, front and rear I believe. What do you think they use to attach a strap to the recovery point baring in mind they are not open like a hook.

Sorry mate but I don't see any recovery situation break a rated shackle before the strap thread goes. Also, with proper recovery points there is no reason why snatching or even winching will put excessive twisting on a shackle.

Couldn't agree with you more. The B.A. do use Jate rings, they are a bunch of ***** though:evil:

Anyway - I think we are getting away from the original post and theme of this thread.

So anyway...........back to GreyLandy cutting off his Jacobs:lol: :unsure: :cry:

[crump]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[RaZz0R]

Chinook:lol:

Russian + reliability = mmmm not sure.

I'll keep that in mind when shopping for my next cargolifter though!:lol:

Hahahahha - google details for the Chinook's - wouldn't ever want to be in one - they tend to want to roll over of their own accord LOL!!

On topic - I recently had the same situation - before the trip I took out the ball & pin to just use the toe bar - I also spoke with Kaymar about this before hand as it is their bar I have on my RRC - the long & short of it is that toe bar should cope with up to 4x what its rated at... 3.2ton is what most are rated at - x 4 = 12.8ton MAX or breaking strain ??

I left it like this & it was a good thing as a recent local trip called for its use to snatch out a mate in a patrol - I got thought a hole he couldn't lol. We used a 12ton snatch & we did use rated shackles - over 4t. Got him out easy & we both inspected all the gear after - was no problems at all & he was bottomed out on diff's & chassis rails.

So I think its good & Kaymar reckon the pin that holds in the toe hitch won't break! Perhaps just check the wields & what not after each recovery for any sign of them getting weak.

[Dougal]

Hahahahha - google details for the Chinook's - wouldn't ever want to be in one - they tend to want to roll over of their own accord LOL!!

On topic - I recently had the same situation - before the trip I took out the ball & pin to just use the toe bar - I also spoke with Kaymar about this before hand as it is their bar I have on my RRC - the long & short of it is that toe bar should cope with up to 4x what its rated at... 3.2ton is what most are rated at - x 4 = 12.8ton MAX or breaking strain ??

Breaking strain and rated load are not the same thing.
The NZ standards (I expect Aus to be the same) rate towbar strength in compression under braking as these are the biggest loads that can be applied.
They are not rated for that pull in tension.

Even if they did have a ~13 ton breaking load, they'd be bent into a completely different shape at about half that.