Hub flange gaskets

[S3ute]

Hello again from Sherwood.

Still poking away at reassembling the axles and hubs on my Series 3 88” - a few misadventures along the way, but still more ahead than behind.

But, I have another poser of the “may or may not matter” variety, but probably worth getting put straight on in case it does.

The driven plate/driving flanges on each hub have a paper gasket (231505) to seal the mating surfaces between the flanges and the hubs. On my truck the inner faces of the front and rear driven plates have a uniformly round profile whereas the sealing surfaces of the hubs have the six pointed star like profile common to the trucks. So, that will be the effective maximum sealing surface.

On the hubs the narrowest point across the sealing surface of the star profile is about 8-9mm. On the paper gaskets that I have this width is only 5mm. So the gasket is narrower than the surface it is meant to be sealing by ~40%.

In case my gaskets were some aftermarket curse from the UK, I rang one of the dwindling parts supply places around Brisbane to see if their gaskets were the same as mine (5mm at the narrowest place) and apparently they are. Very likely Britpart should that be relevant.

Here’s the question - does it matter?

Cheers,

Neil

[Xtreme]

For the last 20 years or more I haven't used gaskets on the driving members. I just clean well and use Hylomar and have never had a problem with them.

[S3ute]

For the last 20 years or more I haven't used gaskets on the driving members. I just clean well and use Hylomar and have never had a problem with them.

Hello and thanks.

I also use Hylomar but have been using that to dress the paper gaskets. The hub flange gaskets are the only ones that I’ve come across so far where the paper gasket and metal sealing surfaces have not been the same profile.

Cheers,

Neil

[Tins]

The hub flange gaskets are the only ones that I’ve come across so far where the paper gasket and metal sealing surfaces have not been the same profile.

Cheers,

Neil

It was a one size fits all philosophy. If you're worried you can make 'em, but I wouldn't. Just make sure the bolts are correctly tightened and there should be no issues. Most of the leaks I saw back in the day were from loose bolts.

[JDNSW]

I have used paper gaskets, either ones like you have or ones I have made. The only leakage issues I have had is the bolts coming loose, which inevitably seems to be a telltale for too much free play on the wheel bearings.

[S3ute]

Hello again from Sherwood.

Thanks for the collective pieces of advice - appreciated.

Being stuck here in splendid (social) isolation, I decided to stick with using a paper gasket dressed with Hylomar. So, I grabbed a compass from my daughter's old school desk, some craft scissors and a scalpel and made up a set with gasket paper.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49714533261_49b6e675b4_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2iK6YHc)Gaskets3 (https://flic.kr/p/2iK6YHc) by Neil Mac (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156618685@N07/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49714533001_443aa4c304_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2iK6YCH)Gaskets4 (https://flic.kr/p/2iK6YCH) by Neil Mac (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156618685@N07/), on Flickr

As my late father in law might have said - a blind man would be pleased to see it.

Moving on past the gaskets - the various workshop manuals specify setting the end float of the bearings with a dial gauge. I don't have one and I'm also fairly confident that a lot of people have refitted hubs without using one either.

I have replaced box and boat trailer bearings on a few occasions without subsequent mishap - just used the 'tighten until they start to bind and relax a quarter turn' rule of thumb. However, looking across a few YouTube clips, including the excellent series from Geoffrey Croker and another by Steam Wally, the advice is that this rule will very likely give excessive end float.

So, my question is - what are people doing when setting the bearings without using a dial gauge?

I suppose another question might be - is anyone in relatively close vicinity to Sherwood willing to lend their dial gauge for the exercise?

Cheers,

Neil

[B.S.F.]

I find it easier to adjust the end-float with the wheel on. You should just be able to feel a bit of play when rocking the wheel. It is important that the end-float still exists after you've tightened the second nut. If not start again. When you remove the wheel the hub should spin freely without any resistance or end-float.
.W.

[Blknight.aus]

are you going oil or grease?

The hubs and bearings are packed with grease.

Cheers,

Neil

[S3ute]

Hello again.

I was trying the respond to the post immediately before this one with a quote and managed to inadvertently delete its contents.

Apologies and happy to see it reposted if possible.

Cheers,

Neil

[Blknight.aus]

to rectify the missing post info...

tighten the inner to about 150nm spin the wheel, retighten and spin again. repeat until the 150nm stage doesnt move the hub nut.

back off about half a turn and without moving the wheel tighten to about 50nm

add the lock tab

tighten the outer nut to about 150nm

fold the lock tab

usually gets pretty close to 0/0.

[JDNSW]

A final check on bearing adjustment - drive 10km, and go round feeling hub temperatures. Unless you have been using the brakes, all hubs should be very little above ambient temperature - but it could be dragging brakes as well, with both needing to be corrected.

[S3ute]

Hello again from Sherwood.

Sitting opposite my truck and wondering WTF!

Proceeded to undertake the task of setting the end float of the hub bearings as previously canvassed in this thread.

Happened to attack the hub on the recently replaced front outer swivel housing - subject of another previous thread - first up. Tightened the hub to 110 ft/lb and on rotation noted a firm episodic resistance and metallic sound as it turned. Slackened it off and rotated again and still the same albeit less obvious. On closer examination the rear of the hub near the seal housing is catching on a couple of the heads of the bolts that hold the stub axle and brake backing plate to the swivel assembly. These bolts appear to be in as far as the design engineers had first intended. The precision of the diameter of the hub casting might not have been so, as it clearly isn’t perfectly round - hence the episodic vs constant catching with the bolt heads.

I went across to the other front hub and tightened it to 110 ft/lb and then followed the rest of the recommended procedure - worked perfectly. So, I was wondering if the issue was slight differences in the casting diameter of the hubs themselves at the point of contact - I suspect that mine came off a couple of different vehicles at some time in the past. To check that, I took a hub off the rear axle and went back through the same procedure on the offending front axle. Same as before - a couple of the bolt heads are interfering with the edge of the hub as it turns.

This leaves me with a couple of possibilities - one being that the replacement swivel housing that I picked up last week is somehow different to the other one that is on the truck or something else. That seems to be fairly unlikely - the something else might be that the heads of the bolts that are making contact with the hub as it rotates are not exactly set at right angles to the turning hub - ie. the edges are catching at critical points but not enough the prevent the hub from turning. Seems odd, and I hadn’t thought the tolerances would have been that tight, but I don’t seem to have too many options other than to undo the lock tabs and reset the heads at right angles and see if that makes a difference.

Tomorrow maybe since I cracked my Solihull patience and forgiveness quota for today.

Anything else to consider?

Cheers,

Neil

[S3ute]

Hello again from Sherwood.

Replying to my own post - I seem to have found the answer. Rather than delete the previous post, largely to avoid a bit of embarrassment, I may as well share the revelation.

I had partly already answered some of my earlier musing - might not the individual hubs be different even though for all purposes they appear to be identical? I sort of knew they were - because the differentials and axle assemblies on my 88” truck likely came from a 109” at some time in the past. It has a Salisbury rear diff and axles - although the axle casing must have been modified for the 88” rear spring set up. The driving flanges front and rear are obviously different - but I recalled that the casting marks on the hubs were also different when I was cleaning them up ages ago.

So, thinking that the right hand front hub had been installed without issues, whereas the front to rear swap on the other hadn’t been a success, the possibility remained that the hub on the other rear axle stub and the one on the front that was OK might be a pair. Swapped it over and it was fine....

Who’d a thought?

The idea of turning the bolt heads as a solution looks a bit silly in the clear light of day.

Still giving it away for the day while my luck is holding out.

Cheers,

Neil

[JDNSW]

Lesson to be learned - when disassembling anything, and planning to put the same part back in, make sure you keep track of where similar bits came from - they might look the same, but that does not mean they are.

[S3ute]

Lesson to be learned - when disassembling anything, and planning to put the same part back in, make sure you keep track of where similar bits came from - they might look the same, but that does not mean they are.

Hello again from Sherwood.

Yes, you won’t get an argument from me there - I thought that I had kept the individual hubs and driving flanges together as sets but they must have been mixed up when they were painted. Apart from the driving flanges front and rear, in this instance, being different in terms of splines, the hubs at face value appear to be identical. Of course, as the discourse revealed, they aren’t, although the dissimilarity in tolerances at the critical point are very small. I had mistakenly assumed that two different suppliers were making the same part at different times.

I did take a lot of care to keep the bearings and cones together as discrete sets.

Cheers,

Neil