My tyre melted

[Lukeis]

159190For those considering The Pirelli ATR+ The story goes

bought four new in April 2019, I work from home so I don’t do large kms - in four years I had done 60,000km so let’s assume 15k for that 12 months as well as I see no reason why it would be different.

Left for a big trip in January, a few e weeks in but sub 1000km I noticed the fronts were looking low (very even wear) so I swapped them front to back in Melbourne two weeks later (add 1000km)

2500km later the rears (old front tyres) were shot so I had them replaced

the fronts (old rears) were low but still decent tread

today, driving 400km the front left melted away, the front right which was identical this morning is still ok, albeit low. Temp was 35C outside

has this happened before? That puts these tyres at max 25k km, which isn’t great but the rate this tyre disappeared In just today is more worrying. I’ll put the spare on to get me to Darwin (500km) but if that happens at this rate to the other side I’m going to be stranded before I get there.

I’m not accustomed to driving long distances in the outback so I don’t know if this is normal. And yes I should carry a second spare but I don’t, thankfully I have road side assistance should I need it.


Three pics attached. One is the other side, two are the melted tyre
ps I’m towing a big van up these long straight roads, these are on the front so the weight of fhe van has been on the new tyres at the back

[Tombie]

What suspension mode if any were you running?

When was it last wheel aligned? By who? Did they use TTM?

What pressures are you using?

Any “clunks” or slight noises emanating from the front end that have been happening for a while?

What sort of road? Sealed bitumen?

[DieselLSE]

Hi Luke,
I was wondering how your trip was going with the travel restrictions in place.
Agree with Tombie. There's something dramatically wrong and I would start with alignment. The tyre wear you showed me in Melbourne didn't make sense and this certainly doesn't.

[DiscoJeffster]

Yeah. Abnormal. I’ve driven fine in 45 degrees etc. your tyres must be toeing in/out a lot to generate that sort of heat plus maybe some overloading to do that to them???

[trout1105]

That image of the melted tread and the gouge marks on the tyre leads me to believe that the tyre is "Rubbing" on something on the car, Are they oversize tyres or is your suspension set too low or are you running overloaded??

[scarry]

Yeah. Abnormal. I’ve driven fine in 45 degrees etc. your tyres must be toeing in/out a lot to generate that sort of heat plus maybe some overloading to do that to them???

And incorrect pressures,probably too low.

[Graeme]

They look to have been scruffing badly probably from the toe alignment being significantly out.

[Tombie]

That image of the melted tread and the gouge marks on the tyre leads me to believe that the tyre is "Rubbing" on something on the car, Are they oversize tyres or is your suspension set too low or are you running overloaded??

Nope. Nothing like that is occurring in that image.

Fronts - won’t be overloaded
265/60-18 well inside vehicles clearances
Can’t run too low even with Llams or equivalent to wear like that over 1,000km (and it wouldn’t drive remotely nicely)

It will be an alignment or suspension issue.

[Lukeis]

Lots of good questions.
the alignment I believe is perfect on account of the tyres all wearing very evenly - remember I only just replaced two of them a month ago and they couldn’t have had a more even wear.

car is not overloaded, we travel very light in the car - myself and my 50kg fiancé, our 2yr old and a waeco fridge mostly empty in the boot - that’s it.

normal suspension height

caravan, unsure of ball weight but maybe 250kg tops

[Lukeis]

Sorry and:
tyre pressure is 40.5 now. I usually have it on 41 so no change
tyre is 265/60/18

[Tombie]

That’s very high for a front - around 38 cold is max. Especially on a P tyre.

I still agree with others your alignment is off or your suspension bushes are failing leading to changes in Toe.

[Barraman]

That is abnormal. I’m running those tyres - look like getting 70,000 km out of them. About half of that towing a 2.5 tonne boat at speed up to 130kph (NT), much of it in hot conditions.

[Graeme]

The lip on 1 side of these sipes indicates that there has been significant cross-scruffing. The lack of wear on the side blocks will be due to the excessively high pressures.

[Lukeis]

The thing is, I honestly looked at these tyres just about every single day and I know for a fact the (now bald) tyre looked identical to this one yesterday before starting the drive

so unless you can see similar issues to this one then something has happened in the course of the drive yesterday but definitely not since the tyre is new

159195

[Lukeis]

159196159197159198159199Some more pics

[Graeme]

If the damage has occurred that quickly then maybe the brake on that wheel is dragging badly. Does the disc show any signs of being excessively hot?

[Graeme]

Check that all tyres are 265/60 in case there's a 255/60 amongst them. Also check if that tyre has the same batch number as the one on the other side.

[Eevo]

CSI - AULRO

[DiscoClax]

Is there any rubber 'dust' on the guards behind the tyres? If the tyres are scrubbing heavily this can show up. I'd agree with the others that it appears to be an alignment issue for whatever reason. The scuffing of the tread is consistent with that. I can't see a few psi more or less having any significant impact, so I see that as a furphy.

[ramblingboy42]

Kind of looks like it could have driven through some solvent or spilt fuel at a servo.....did it seem to occurr after refuelling?

[Eevo]

Kind of looks like it could have driven through some solvent or spilt fuel at a servo.....did it seem to occurr after refuelling?

solvent was one of my first thoughts.

[josh.huber]

My standard scorpions get to a certain point then disappear. And they develop a look that makes them look like they have two different types of rubber on the tread.
Too much toe and low pressure will show differently then too much and high pressure aswell. I had a wheel alignment done once on mine that ate the corner of my tyre. I had no issues before that alignment. Did it just because I got tyres. Had a mate redo the alignment. Basically off the sheets he reversed what they did. Both times the car didn't pull to one side. However when the steering wheel came off centre with the bad alignment it steered really fast. With it corrected was much more linear

I think I've only got 36 in the front.



https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200403/2ecd32d5f5a457cf43cea34ef658aa31.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200403/c9ae0c71c6951fe2df48eacfa47e8963.jpg

[Graeme]

Lots of tyres have different compounds for the tread compared with the carcase.

[Lukeis]

Discs are on great condition, only six months old
front pads were replaced at the time of the two near rear tyres a few weeks ago

no scrubbing or signs of it.

have written to Pirelli to ask how it would drop so suddenly. I hear what your saying about the alignment issue but 90% of the tyre wore perfectly then all of a sudden changed, but only for one tyre. Seems odd but happy to see what they say

[DiscoJeffster]

Discs are on great condition, only six months old
front pads were replaced at the time of the two near rear tyres a few weeks ago

no scrubbing or signs of it.

have written to Pirelli to ask how it would drop so suddenly. I hear what your saying about the alignment issue but 90% of the tyre wore perfectly then all of a sudden changed, but only for one tyre. Seems odd but happy to see what they say

Is it possible you’ve hit a pothole and bend something or knocked something out of alignment, that a bush has given way and is now allowing movement etc? These things could happen suddenly and cause a rapid tyre degradation. I’d suggest you get it on a hoist ASAP and give it a once over, and go from there. You have a problem, a recent and sudden one I guess [emoji2369]

[Graeme]

Have you confirmed that the wheel turns freely back and forth to the extent the drive-line slack allows?

[Lukeis]

Have you confirmed that the wheel turns freely back and forth to the extent the drive-line slack allows?

yes, I replaced the tyre with my spare and it moved as expected

ill take it to a tyre shop in Darwin on Monday and organise two new ones and see if they can check the alignment too.

[Tombie]

The thing is, I honestly looked at these tyres just about every single day and I know for a fact the (now bald) tyre looked identical to this one yesterday before starting the drive

so unless you can see similar issues to this one then something has happened in the course of the drive yesterday but definitely not since the tyre is new

159195

That tyre is well below the wear bars.

[Tombie]

If the damage has occurred that quickly then maybe the brake on that wheel is dragging badly. Does the disc show any signs of being excessively hot?

On a steer tyre he would be fighting it like mad!

[Graeme]

I appreciate that but sometimes not all is initially revealed.

[josh.huber]

Luke any updates mate, how's the car, the tyres, the alignment etc

[Lukeis]

Hey mate

no update yet, made it to Darwin and have ordered two new tyres but they are taking a long time to arrive from Adelaide as no one stocks them here - once the new rubber is on I’ll get a new wheel alignment just in case

right now the ‘melted’ one from the original pics is my spare and the other one is still on the car, so yep I’m pretty well house bound at the moment

nil response from Pirelli despite two emails

[trout1105]

Hey mate

no update yet, made it to Darwin and have ordered two new tyres but they are taking a long time to arrive from Adelaide as no one stocks them here - once the new rubber is on I’ll get a new wheel alignment just in case

right now the ‘melted’ one from the original pics is my spare and the other one is still on the car, so yep I’m pretty well house bound at the moment

nil response from Pirelli despite two emails

You should have ordered a full set of tyres or at least 3 of them because that "melted" one is ruined and isn't any value as a spare, It would also be illegal to use anyway[thumbsupbig]

[W&KO]

Have you checked the manufacture date on the tyres??

I got duped on a set of jumps that were already three years old when fitted.

Age might be a contributor given the low K’s

[shanegtr]

I'd put money on that its an alignment issue

[Lukeis]

If everyone wants to place their bets I’ll confirm soon

yep trout, ive got three brand new ones on the car and one bad one, so I’ve order two new to replace the spare as well.

[trout1105]

If everyone wants to place their bets I’ll confirm soon

yep trout, ive got three brand new ones on the car and one bad one, so I’ve order two new to replace the spare as well.

[thumbsupbig]

[josh.huber]

What's the prize Luke??

I'll guess that your alignment is ok. Your pressure is to high and you're Pirelli tyres disappear like every set of mine once they get to 80%, I run Scorpions, but one service they are there, the next I'm wondering how she get home on rags!

[vnx205]

My attempt to win the prize is as follows:

The alignment won't be bad enough to fully explain the problem.

Pirelli won't acknowledge that there was any problem with the tyre.

In other words, at the end of this, you still won't have a definitive answer.

[josh.huber]

Least your stuck on holidays in Darwin. I'm working at home with a 6 yr old and a 4 yr old. Wanna swap??

[Lukeis]

Hmmm maybe, we admitted defeat for the holiday and rented a house in Darwin so we could resume work instead of just killing time

now we have to balance work and our two year old without the ability to go to the park or go for a walk (it’s 36C here) - at this point I’m thinking two kids might be easier than one?

on the bright side it’s very safe up here and there’s talk of opening things up again soon

[trout1105]

I took a short break in Darwin once and ended up staying for 5 years and the ONLY reason we left was because the Missus flatly refused to suffer another "Build Up".
The NT and Darwin is "Gods Country" as far as I am concerned, Enjoy[thumbsupbig][bigrolf]

[Narangga]

Hmmm maybe, we admitted defeat for the holiday and rented a house in Darwin so we could resume work instead of just killing time

now we have to balance work and our two year old without the ability to go to the park or go for a walk (it’s 36C here) - at this point I’m thinking two kids might be easier than one?

on the bright side it’s very safe up here and there’s talk of opening things up again soon

Firstly wait until six months time in late October...

Secondly 'Playgrounds' are closed meaning play equipment. However parks/green spaces are able to be used with social distancing etc.

Darwin: Sport Facilities, Parks & Playgrounds - COVID 19 | City of Darwin | Darwin Council, Northern Territory (https://www.darwin.nt.gov.au/community/disaster-emergency/covid-19-coronavirus/sport-facilities-parks-playgrounds-information)

Palmerston: COVID-19 Update | City of Palmerston (https://www.palmerston.nt.gov.au/covid-19-update)

Walking and having a two year old play in the grass under a shady tree is certainly permitted.

[Lukeis]

Results are in: 18 degree inward angle for the front wheels - ie the car was severely pigeon toe’d

wheel alignment done today.

said the Front camber is at 2 degrees which they will fix tomorrow - I’m unsure why this wasn’t fixed at the same time

[Eevo]

Results are in: 18 degree inward angle for the front wheels - ie the car was severely pigeon toe’d


surely you would feel that while driving

[Lukeis]

No adverse feeling, noise or vibrations at all

[josh.huber]

Coming off centre steering position should have been twitchy

[DiscoJeffster]

Coming off centre steering position should have been twitchy

It’s toeing in heavily both sides so in a turn instead of the unloaded tyre moving to to toe-out or neutral position as normal to help cornering, it would have remained toe -in and thus I’d have expected it to actually push wide and scrub more, not feel twitchy.
Toe out on the rear of a front wheel drive - that’s twitchy, and caused a friend to put his car into a tree on its side. He was lucky the tree got at the rear passenger area and not the front. He turned a Swift into a two seater very quickly.

[Slunnie]

Results are in: 18 degree inward angle for the front wheels - ie the car was severely pigeon toe’d

wheel alignment done today.

said the Front camber is at 2 degrees which they will fix tomorrow - I’m unsure why this wasn’t fixed at the same time

How does that happen? 18 degrees is massive. It must have had a big hit or something must have broken in the steering or suspension. I'm surprised there was even that much adjustment in it!

[josh.huber]

It’s toeing in heavily both sides so in a turn instead of the unloaded tyre moving to to toe-out or neutral position as normal to help cornering, it would have remained toe -in and thus I’d have expected it to actually push wide and scrub more, not feel twitchy.
Toe out on the rear of a front wheel drive - that’s twitchy, and caused a friend to put his car into a tree on its side. He was lucky the tree got at the rear passenger area and not the front. He turned a Swift into a two seater very quickly.

Who cares what the unloaded tyre is doing, it's unloaded. The loaded tyre is already at 18. As you turn, the inner tyre is unloaded and offers less fight. That makes it turn quicker. In both directions..

[Graeme]

Results are in: 18 degree inward angle for the front wheels - ie the car was severely pigeon toe’d

wheel alignment done today.

said the Front camber is at 2 degrees which they will fix tomorrow - I’m unsure why this wasn’t fixed at the same time
Fixing the toe-in temporarily would stop the adverse wear but it will have to be reset once the camber is corrected, presumably when the aligner has enough time to do both.

[PerthDisco]

Results are in: 18 degree inward angle for the front wheels - ie the car was severely pigeon toe’d

wheel alignment done today.

said the Front camber is at 2 degrees which they will fix tomorrow - I’m unsure why this wasn’t fixed at the same time

You sure your LCAs aren’t completely shot?

Once I went to get an alignment and they refused to do it as so much movement in the LCA back bush.

[Lukeis]

Fixing the toe-in temporarily would stop the adverse wear but it will have to be reset once the camber is corrected, presumably when the aligner has enough time to do both.


seems odd they wouldn’t just do both at once, is this normal? I mean it’s hardly convenient to drop a car off twice and surely they lose a lot of efficiency taking it off and back on again

[Lukeis]

How does that happen? 18 degrees is massive. It must have had a big hit or something must have broken in the steering or suspension. I'm surprised there was even that much adjustment in it!


no idea how this happened or when, I do know however that it’s never been in a crash and I don’t gutter park.

But I’m assuming it was done wrong a few years ago when the Lower control arms were done as that was the same week I bought the KO2 tyres (set before my Pirellis) and they lasted bugger all time as well

[Bulletman]

Is this happening in Darwin or have you left already... I just read about you getting the gearbox rebuilt whilst in Darwin , thats why i ask.

Bulletman

[Lukeis]

Is this happening in Darwin or have you left already... I just read about you getting the gearbox rebuilt whilst in Darwin , thats why i ask.

Bulletman

haha yes still in Darwin, turning out to be a very expensive visit

[josh.huber]

haha yes still in Darwin, turning out to be a very expensive visit

All good Luke, think of the positives. you have lots of answers. Sometimes it's expensive just to park in the shed! Mine has a transfer case waiting for it, Did you sort out the smart key issue? A bad day on holidays is better then a good day at home

[Lukeis]

Lol I’ve forgotten about the smart key issue, for now

You are right, holidays are what it’s all about!

[josh.huber]

Lol I’ve forgotten about the smart key issue, for now

You are right, holidays are what it’s all about!

Excellent!!, tell Darwin I'm on the way.. I'll go mention it to my disco,