Sand Bog “Crawl Control”

[HarryO]

Hi All

Has anyone tried the to drive themselves out of a beach sand bog by using the “Crawl Control” method?

Basically when you’re bellied out just put it in low range and keep the revs real low - the car starts moving slowly, chewing it’s way along but slowly builds speed / traction until it drives out in about 5 minutes.

First saw video of this with Arabs using it with a Landcruiser in the desert and now seeing more videos showing the Toyota crawl control mode.. looks really simple and a bunch less sweat that spade & maxtrax..

I never get bogged you see 🧐 so just wondering it it works on a D3/4 with our traction control smarts..
.

[ATH]

Well done on never getting bogged...... I can and do get bogged in all sorts of places. :) I found rock crawl was excellent once when I came to a grinding halt in shale at Carawine Gorge last year with our small van on the back.
Not nice with a bunch of grinning ape Tojo owners all watching eagerly. So raise her up and into rock crawl and gently on the throttle and out she came slowly but surely.
The only other Landie owner there was delighted if the big grin and thumbs up he gave were anything to go by.
Certainly showed the comic reading clowns how to do it. [bigsmile]
AlanH.

[HarryO]

Thanks Alan

[INter674]

I remember at Tough Truck in the mud pit watching and listening to a big block chevvy on full noise slowly chewing its way through the metre deep mud as the 44" tyres slowly but surely flung tons of mud high into the air.

It seemed to go on forever...and I can still hear it now😃

That's the proper way to do it!!

[scarry]

Rock crawl is generally good with very light throttle.
Get the vehicle into extended off road height,so its off its belly, and lower tyres a bit more.
Reverse may get you moving as well.

i would also dig around the wheels before trying again once momentum has stopped.

And No,D4 doesn't actually have a crawl control mode,same as LC.

[101RRS]

See this YouTube video - BT50 without any special traction means. Seems to work.

YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1PbuoGVEz4)

[HarryO]

That’s one of the vids I watched - he puts the lockers on to help. Just wondering how our traction control will behave when trying to transfer drive away from the wheel with less traction.

Also I think this method relies on having sand in front of the wheels to chew on - so might not be good to shovel it all away.

Guess the best way would to just go get bogged and try - when this COVID thing has passed.

Once perfected - Inskip Point would be good proving ground - just to shut the peanut galley up!

[scarry]

That’s one of the vids I watched - he puts the lockers on to help. Just wondering how our traction control will behave when trying to transfer drive away from the wheel with less traction.

Also I think this method relies on having sand in front of the wheels to chew on - so might not be good to shovel it all away.

Guess the best way would to just go get bogged and try - when this COVID thing has passed.

Once perfected - Inskip Point would be good proving ground - just to shut the peanut galley up!

Don't worry about that at all,its the least of your worries.

It is difficult to feel what the wheels are doing in an auto though,but you will be fine,we have all got used to it,driving autos these days.

Low tyre pressures are the key.

[INter674]

Don't D4s hsve some sort of self extraction device? I recall talking to a bloke who was flown to Africa to test drive the last of them telling me they deliberately bogged them then selected something to extract themselves..said something about the TC doing something tricky?

I should have listened more carefully🙄

[geoffmc]

Guys,

my previous vehicle was a 150 Prado Kakadu, complete with CRAWL. I used it twice on the sand to extracate myself from being seriously bogged. I had a rear factory difflock and on both ocations, CRAWL advised to unlock the rear locker, as it couldnt divert drive to the wheels as-needed. CRAWL works differently to the video further up in this post, it actively proportions drive at a much slower speed to wheel as necessary, using the brakes to slow and maintain the wheel speed at an amazingly slow rate, which isnt possible manually. Thats the other bit of kit that i miss from the Prado.

cheers
Geoff

[DiscoJeffster]

Guys,

my previous vehicle was a 150 Prado Kakadu, complete with CRAWL. I used it twice on the sand to extracate myself from being seriously bogged. I had a rear factory difflock and on both ocations, CRAWL advised to unlock the rear locker, as it couldnt divert drive to the wheels as-needed. CRAWL works differently to the video further up in this post, it actively proportions drive at a much slower speed to wheel as necessary, using the brakes to slow and maintain the wheel speed at an amazingly slow rate, which isnt possible manually. Thats the other bit of kit that i miss from the Prado.

cheers
Geoff

I don’t understand why you needed it? I didn’t think a Toyota could get bogged? That’s what Tojo drivers keep telling me [emoji2369]

[INter674]

Just re reading the D4 TC specs it appears the upgraded sand launch mode provides a soft start which I guess when combined with the extra lift that should activate if bogged will greatly assist with extraction.

Crawl mode sounds very interesting tho..have to look out for that one..and good to see Toyota doing some innovation!

[rick130]

Steane and Dave at Loaded4x4 love Landies, Steane particularly (he drives a Deefer) and they both reckon that crawl mode in the 200 Series is the best TC mode they've used

[INter674]

Okay..got to try sand mode today..but on wet grass.

Parked the 1300kg float up hill on wet grass...after 50mm rain..so yes..very wet and slippery.

Went to take off in high range D..no go..just wheelspin as the engine revved up.

So selected low range plus sand mode. Pressed acc pedal..hum..not much happening yet..pressed some more and slowly the car inched forward slowely gathering momentum.

So sand launch mode seems to work quite well on slippery grass. It dulls the throttle response quite a lot...not quite crawl mode but enables much better loud pedal control.

[DiscoJeffster]

Sand launch mode? You are talking about:
Low range rather than high,
Sand mode selected
DSC off

I guess I don’t get what you mean when you say “launch” ....

[cripesamighty]

I guess in the old days we just used the hand throttle. Then software started giving cars a bit of a helping hand, which is a good thing. The Puma Defenders had the whole Traction Control and anti-stall thing happening and works a treat in sand (see below). Now with sand mode in Toyotas and JLR Terrain Response settings they make things a lot easier for the driver nowadays. I've been playing around with my D3 of late and even though it's a 2006 with early software compared to the D4's and D5's, it is very capable on 18's.

YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gttVJIyAdR8)

[INter674]

Found this explanation from LR..note the brake application..

"New Discovery 4 takes this technology a further step forward and includes new Sand Launch Control and enhanced traction during
Rock Crawl Pre-charge which is a function that applies a small amount of brake pressure to each brake calliper during very low speed driving.

The new Sand Launch Control system helps prevent the wheels
spinning when moving off from a standstill and the vehicle ‘digging in’. Once the vehicle reaches the appropriate speed the slip threshold is returned to its normal state."

[geoffmc]

I don’t understand why you needed it? I didn’t think a Toyota could get bogged? That’s what Tojo drivers keep telling me [emoji2369]

hahaha, yes, i know several Toyota owners that believe that mantra. I'm not a brand loyalist and have owned Pajeros, Pathfinders, Patrol, Suzuki, Toyota's, however the D4 is the closest to perfection ive owned.

cheers
Geoff

[DiscoJeffster]

hahaha, yes, i know several Toyota owners that believe that mantra. I'm not a brand loyalist and have owned Pajeros, Pathfinders, Patrol, Suzuki, Toyota's, however the D4 is the closest to perfection ive owned.

cheers
Geoff

In 4WD Territory I’ve owned Pajero (‘99 NL, last of the ladder frame), Freelander 2 (can’t count that) and D4. I’ve never sold my soul to Toyota.

[geoffmc]

In 4WD Territory I’ve owned Pajero (‘99 NL, last of the ladder frame), Freelander 2 (can’t count that) and D4. I’ve never sold my soul to Toyota.

Mate,

ive owned 2 x R50 Pathfinders, an NH, NL and NT Pajero (the NT was heavily modded and was the most reliable vehicle ever owned), LWB Suzuki Sierra, 150 Petrol Prado Kakadu (i wanted to see what all the fuss was about) and a GU CRD Patrol (lots of off road mods), a Subary MY80 Wagon (lift kit, RX Turbo motor and rear detroit locker and it was a weapon) and now the Disco.

cheers
Geoff

[DiscoMick]

I guess in the old days we just used the hand throttle. Then software started giving cars a bit of a helping hand, which is a good thing. The Puma Defenders had the whole Traction Control and anti-stall thing happening and works a treat in sand (see below). Now with sand mode in Toyotas and JLR Terrain Response settings they make things a lot easier for the driver nowadays. I've been playing around with my D3 of late and even though it's a 2006 with early software compared to the D4's and D5's, it is very capable on 18's.

YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gttVJIyAdR8)Yes, I can confirm a Puma Defender with TC and anti-stall can do this, although I stayed in the driver's seat, just in case.

[Tombie]

Anti-stall has been in more than the TDCi. Td5 has it.

And all prior had a Governor which did the same thing.


Anything driven correctly will do the job.
Crawl control was Toyota’s break-out version of Terrain Response functionality.

As for clambering out of sand - best tyres I’ve ever used in sand were Mickey T Claws. These were fantastic on firm and powder.

[INter674]

Anti-stall has been in more than the TDCi. Td5 has it.

And all prior had a Governor which did the same thing.


Anything driven correctly will do the job.
Crawl control was Toyota’s break-out version of Terrain Response functionality.

As for clambering out of sand - best tyres I’ve ever used in sand were Mickey T Claws. These were fantastic on firm and powder.

Mmm Claws...son's 37" claws plus twin locked...plus 400kw engine..nothing stopped it...

Esp scary on sand dunes🤤

[scarry]

Yes, I can confirm a Puma Defender with TC and anti-stall can do this, although I stayed in the driver's seat, just in case.

With a manual there is much more 'feel' as to what is going on,with wheel spin.

In an auto it is more difficult.

The later Pumas also had an uprated TC system compared with the earlier vehicles in the model run.

The Puma in my sig was amazing in soft sand,it just wouldn't stop,where the D4 struggled,mainly due to its weight,and tyres,i am guessing.

The Puma just trundled through,kept going like a tractor,where the D4 needed a lot more momentum to keep going.

Also i think BFG A/t's are not the best in sand,no matter how low the pressures are.

One of my brothers had a manual '86 Classic for years,it was fantastic in the soft stuff.No fancy traction aids.

[INter674]

..found some more info re the D4 sand setting..note kick the wheel feature..

"The next step was as simple as choosing Sand on the Terrain Response panel. After that, Land Rover does all the work. Just point and shoot. And brake, of course.

It backs-off the stability control to allow plenty of wheelspin to keep the momentum going, but if it senses a slowing of forward movement under the same power (as in hitting a boggy patch), it will 'kick' one of the wheels by a quick, sharp stab on the brake.

This forces the car to jump slightly sideways and give more purchase on the soft ground.

It’s an ingenious solution, and it works: the result meant we never even looked like sinking to the axles. It would have to be very hungry powder to bog this technology down. (And we still had plenty of air left in the tyres to lower pressures further, should the need have arisen.)

So, no problems in these conditions. Beach runs will never be a chore in this car."

[DiscoMick]

With a manual there is much more 'feel' as to what is going on,with wheel spin.

In an auto it is more difficult.

The later Pumas also had an uprated TC system compared with the earlier vehicles in the model run.

The Puma in my sig was amazing in soft sand,it just wouldn't stop,where the D4 struggled,mainly due to its weight,and tyres,i am guessing.

The Puma just trundled through,kept going like a tractor,where the D4 needed a lot more momentum to keep going.

Also i think BFG A/t's are not the best in sand,no matter how low the pressures are.

One of my brothers had a manual '86 Classic for years,it was fantastic in the soft stuff.No fancy traction aids.I think one of the advantages Defenders have in sand is their very tall tyres, 235/85/16s.
I usually start by letting them down to 20 in the sand on Straddie, which makes the footprint much longer than would be possible with a low profile tyre.
The Hankook ATs we have seem good in sand, maybe better than a mud tyre which might be more inclined to dig holes like in mud, but on sand you don't want to dig holes, you want to ride up on top of the sand and compress it under the tyre.
The six-speed manual and low range also work well. In low range first I can walk faster than the vehicle is moving, knowing that anti-stall will just keep it chugging along without stopping.
I don't do extreme stuff, so I'm yet to find any situation, even when towing our camper, where a rear diff lock might have been an advantage.
So I find our Defender's high profile tyres, six-speed manual, TC and anti-stall to be very effective on sand.